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Question: Is BFL simply Trolling Enterpoint (and other FPGA Devs) with their EARLY Announcement ?
Yes, they (BFL) are TROLLS - 78 (63.9%)
No, we will see BFL ASICs soon (before 2013)....honest - 44 (36.1%)
Total Voters: 120

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Author Topic: BFL ASIC Announcement - Truth or Troll ? - The LONG CON just got longer  (Read 5319 times)
bitlane
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June 18, 2012, 05:35:38 PM
 #1

It's become quite obvious that lately, BFL's 'Heat' has been taken away by Enterpoint, a REAL FPGA & ASIC Manufacturer.

This can be seen as of late in how BFL have resorted to public Trolling.

I personally believe that BFL's recent 'Press Release' was nothing more than FUD to scare the community away from competing FPGAs and boost their own sales with a combination of that same FUD and their 'Trade-Up' program.
No timeline, not even an update on their own site.

It was also demonstrated by another forum member that a Yahoo Press Release isn't THAT difficult to get up on the web, with little or NO facts backing it up.

What do you think ?

(ps. Yes, I am a TROLL for starting this POLL....lol)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can't wait for BFL to release all of their Rules and Regulations...ie...the FINE PRINT, in regards to their 'Trade Up Program' when all is said and done.

Sure, you might be getting 100% of your Single or Mini-Rig's value credited towards ASIC hardware, but if for 1 second you believe that BFL won't be using this as a way to get MORE money out of you....then you have another thing coming.

What do I mean ?

Well, let's lay out the hardware first...

Current Gen:
- Bitforce Single, 840 MH/s @ 599 USD
- Bitforce Mini-Rig, 25 GH/s @ $15,000 USD

Next Gen:
- BitForce SC Jalapeno: a USB powered coffee warmer providing 3.5 GH/s, priced at under $149
- BitForce SC Single: a standalone unit providing roughly 40 GH/s, priced at $1,299
- BitForce SC Mini Rig: a case & rack mount server providing 1 TH/s, priced at $29,899

For those miners that might not want to make the jump into a $30,000 ASIC Mini-RIG, that are currently Bitforce Mini-Rig Owners...and simply want a small increase in performance....GOOD LUCK
.
Since reading the BFL Press Release, if you think it will be as easy as trading your current Bitforce Mini-Rig @ $15,000 straight across for, say, 11x SC ASIC Singles and a couple of Jalapenos to make up the difference in price, or that your current Bitforce Single will be able to be traded 'UP' to a small handful of ASIC Jalapenos straight across, or enough to make up your 'price credit'...... - THINK AGAIN.


Here's how I think the 'Last Nail in the Coffin' will play out...
The Jalapeno will be sold outright, new purchases ONLY.
The Bitforce Singles (current) will ONLY be accepted for 'Trade-Up' against the purchase of a $1300 SC Singles (they get another $700 out of you)....
The Mini Rigs will ONLY be accepted for 'Trade-Up' against the purchase of a $30,000 SC Mini-Rig (yes, they will get another $15,000 out of you).

..AND I believe this will ONLY be a 1:1 trade-up Ratio. So, no trading in 2x current Bitforce Mini-Rigs for a single ASIC Mini-Rig etc..... THEY WANT MORE OF YOUR MONEY and have put you in a LOSE/LOSE POSITION....

I wish everyone the best of luck with the 'Trade-Up' Program....YOU WILL NEED IT....ALONG WITH MUCH DEEPER POCKETS.

Looks like the 'Long Con' can play out a number of ways.....BFL just guaranteed themselves a steady income stream for the next 2+ years and no one can do anything about it. Either keep your current BFL hardware when it's slow and useless OR BE FORCED TO SPEND MORE (not given a choice) BEING FORCED to continue paying them...

Good Luck to everyone.

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June 18, 2012, 06:44:57 PM
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The poll would be more useful with an option to choose "Not enough information available to predict" or even "I don't have enough expertise to make an informed judgement."
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June 18, 2012, 07:23:51 PM
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BFL could easily silence all of us up by showing a hint of some proof.  But they can't because there is none.  Notice Inaba and Gigavps are (smartly) keeping their mouths shut this time.
bitlane
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June 18, 2012, 07:50:43 PM
 #4

I can't wait for BFL to release all of their Rules and Regulations...ie...the FINE PRINT, in regards to their 'Trade Up Program' when all is said and done.

Sure, you might be getting 100% of your Single or Mini-Rig's value credited towards ASIC hardware, but if for 1 second you believe that BFL won't be using this as a way to get MORE money out of you....then you have another thing coming.

What do I mean ?

Well, let's lay out the hardware first...

Current Gen:
- Bitforce Single, 840 MH/s @ 599 USD
- Bitforce Mini-Rig, 25 GH/s @ $15,000 USD

Next Gen:
- BitForce SC Jalapeno: a USB powered coffee warmer providing 3.5 GH/s, priced at under $149
- BitForce SC Single: a standalone unit providing roughly 40 GH/s, priced at $1,299
- BitForce SC Mini Rig: a case & rack mount server providing 1 TH/s, priced at $29,899

For those miners that might not want to make the jump into a $30,000 ASIC Mini-RIG, that are currently Bitforce Mini-Rig Owners...and simply want a small increase in performance....GOOD LUCK
.
Since reading the BFL Press Release, if you think it will be as easy as trading your current Bitforce Mini-Rig @ $15,000 straight across for, say, 11x SC ASIC Singles and a couple of Jalapenos to make up the difference in price, or that your current Bitforce Single will be able to be traded 'UP' to a small handful of ASIC Jalapenos straight across, or enough to make up your 'price credit'...... - THINK AGAIN.


Here's how I think the 'Last Nail in the Coffin' will play out...
The Jalapeno will be sold outright, new purchases ONLY.
The Bitforce Singles (current) will ONLY be accepted for 'Trade-Up' against the purchase of a $1300 SC Singles (they get another $700 out of you)....
The Mini Rigs will ONLY be accepted for 'Trade-Up' against the purchase of a $30,000 SC Mini-Rig (yes, they will get another $15,000 out of you).

..AND I believe this will ONLY be a 1:1 trade-up Ratio. So, no trading in 2x current Bitforce Mini-Rigs for a single ASIC Mini-Rig etc..... THEY WANT MORE OF YOUR MONEY and have put you in a LOSE/LOSE POSITION....

I wish everyone the best of luck with the 'Trade-Up' Program....YOU WILL NEED IT....ALONG WITH MUCH DEEPER POCKETS.

Looks like the 'Long Con' can play out a number of ways.....BFL just guaranteed themselves a steady income stream for the next 2+ years and no one can do anything about it. Either keep your current BFL hardware when it's slow and useless OR BE FORCED TO SPEND MORE (not given a choice) BEING FORCED to continue paying them...

Good Luck to everyone.

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June 18, 2012, 07:57:18 PM
 #5

^^^ Very good post ^^^
bitlane
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June 18, 2012, 08:11:33 PM
 #6

Too many people are jumping right into BFL's arms, BLINDLY.

Not enough questions are being asked and not enough answered.

The Trade-Up program is going to create a HUGE shit storm in the end, because people just don't realize that once they buy a BFL unit with future hopes of this 'Upgrade' that they are basically signing up to be a 'BFL Bitch' for the long run....

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June 18, 2012, 08:12:26 PM
 #7

That's ok that you're fearful - less wait time and more BFL ASICs for me then!
bitlane
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June 18, 2012, 08:13:53 PM
 #8

less wait time and more BFL ASICs for me then!

There's nothing wrong with that. As long as you are not buying these under any illusions of 'a deal' and are thinking clearly.
They are not doing YOU any favors. You are doing it all for them.....

Their sale's pitch has sucked in more than a few, who haven't thought this through entirely.

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June 18, 2012, 08:16:30 PM
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That's ok that you're fearful - less wait time and more BFL ASICs for me then!

There's nothing wrong with that. As long as you are not buying these under any illusions of 'a deal' and are thinking clearly.
They are not doing YOU any favors. You are doing it all for them.....

Their sale's pitch has sucked in more than a few, who haven't thought this through entirely.
They've done me plenty of favors.  I am very happy with the purchases I've made from them thus far.

And certainly, I'll take a close look at whatever trade in agreement is offered.  I do think it's silly to make the sort of assumptions that you've made, with regards to how the trade in program will work when you really have no idea how the trade in program will work, but you're certainly allowed to speculate however you like.  Wink
bitlane
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June 18, 2012, 08:20:56 PM
 #10

I do think it's silly to make the sort of assumptions that you've made, with regards to how the trade in program will work when you really have no idea how the trade in program will work, but you're certainly allowed to speculate however you like.  Wink

Without a clear and concise Program plan straight from 'the horse's mouth' what other alternatives are there, other than speculation ?

Here's how I speculated...
I thought as cheap and underhanded as I possibly could (like a drug dealer) ...and came up with the post(s) above and the program 1:1 ratio etc.
Would it wrong to assume that judging by their track record of payment vs delivery and communication/hype/FUD, that I can't be all that far off ? if not 100% DEAD ON ?

It's up to THEM to clarify....or perhaps now, reconsider Wink

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June 18, 2012, 08:25:06 PM
 #11

I want to mine at 3.5 GH/s for under $149.  Sign me up.  Cool

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June 18, 2012, 08:28:46 PM
 #12

I'd be willing to trade up my 10 BFL Singles for 5 BFL SC Singles, and go from 8gh to 200gh.  I don't see what the problem would be.

*shrug*
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June 18, 2012, 08:34:06 PM
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I do think it's silly to make the sort of assumptions that you've made, with regards to how the trade in program will work when you really have no idea how the trade in program will work, but you're certainly allowed to speculate however you like.  Wink

Without a clear and concise Program plan straight from 'the horse's mouth' what other alternatives are there, other than speculation ?

Here's how I speculated...
I thought as cheap and underhanded as I possibly could (like a drug dealer) ...and came up with the post(s) above and the program 1:1 ratio etc.
Would it wrong to assume that judging by their track record of payment vs delivery and communication/hype/FUD, that I can't be all that far off ? if not 100% DEAD ON ?

It's up to THEM to clarify....or perhaps now, reconsider Wink
In my opinion, yes, it would be wrong.
In my opinion, they are simply a startup company with subpar communication and demand for their products that far outstrips their supply.

I'd be willing to trade up my 10 BFL Singles for 5 BFL SC Singles, and go from 8gh to 200gh.  I don't see what the problem would be.

*shrug*
Bitlane's speculation is that BFL will only allow you to trade 10 BFL Singles for 10 BFL SC Singles, and have to cough up the extra $7000 on top of it.
bitlane
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June 18, 2012, 08:35:06 PM
 #14

I'd be willing to trade up my 10 BFL Singles for 5 BFL SC Singles, and go from 8gh to 200gh.  I don't see what the problem would be.

*shrug*

NOT gonna happen. I can almost bet. How can they offer that ? THEY NEED MORE OF YOUR MONEY !

It will be a 1:1 Trade-Up Ratio. Your current 10 Singles will be eligible to trade up against 10 new SC Singles + approx $7,000 USD ($700 x 10). So start saving up.

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June 18, 2012, 08:38:02 PM
 #15

It's been said time and again, Buy the coins, not the hardware. If everyone buys ASIC hardware, then everyone is now back to square one, just minus the money they invested.
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June 18, 2012, 08:43:00 PM
 #16

I'm beginning to suspect that BFL is in fact a pyramide scam. What if they had to pay almost list price for those cyclone III's that they used in singles? What if they need more and more orders just to get the chips paid? That would explain the ridiculously long and ever growing lead times...

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bitlane
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June 18, 2012, 08:43:58 PM
 #17

Let's use gigavps as an example....

To all gigaminers:

There has been a lot of news / discussion in recent days regarding new equipment coming out from Butterfly Labs. I have confirmed with BFL that this information is indeed correct and have submitted an order for 4 more mini rigs. This will bring gigamining up to a total of 8 mini rigs (204Gh/s), 14 BFL Singles (12Gh/s) and around 90 GPUs (36Gh/s).

He will be holding a total of 8 Mini-Rigs and 14 Bitforce Singles.

Do you have any idea what HIS 'Trade-Up' costs will be @ 1:1 'Trade-up' Ratio ?

8 Mini-Rigs ($15,000) to 8 SC Mini-Rigs ($30,000) = $15,000 each (upgrade cost) = $120,000 USD
14 Singles ($600) to 14 SC Singles ($1300) = $700 each (upgrade cost) = $9,800 USD

So, unless gigavps just gives up and quits when ASICS come out, as his current hardware will be next to useless....

HE WILL NEED TO COME UP WITH NEARLY $130,000 USD (One Hundred Thirty Thousand Dollars) just to become competitive again.

FUCK ME !

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June 18, 2012, 08:45:48 PM
 #18

That could very well happen.  Depending on whether the consensus is to "change all the things" because asics are "unfair" (at which point I'd probably be done with bitcoin anyhow), and whether they do only allow 1:1 trade-ups will drastically change my decision.  There is too much speculation, guessing, and bullshit at the moment to be able to make any kind of call.

I was already on the fence about upgrading to a MiniRig, which would put my total investment at about the same range ($15-$20k).  So if trading in 8.5gh for 400gh arrives at about the same cost to upgrade to 25.5gh now (without all the "asics are unfair" nonsense), it'd be silly not to take advantage of that.
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June 18, 2012, 08:49:58 PM
 #19

So....I just want to understand correctly.

A company who offers FPGA boards without a functional bitstream and with a length of delivery of around 2 months now is taking the heat of a company who offers FPGA with a functional bitstream with a delivery of around 2 months. So the company who delivers in 2 months (not the first one, the second) announce they are working on "vaporware" to prevent the company with the incomplete FPGA to sell too much of them.

 Roll Eyes
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June 18, 2012, 08:50:28 PM
 #20

<snip>
- Bitforce Single, 840 MH/s @ 5.99 USD
</snip>

How much time will you take to ship those?
I'll take 200 of them, please.

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