BFL ASIC Announcement - Truth or Troll ? - The LONG CON just got longer

[bitlane]

BFL WILL NOT 'TRADE-UP' WITHOUT ADDITIONAL MONEY.....you are missing the point.

They have everyone, HOOK, LINE and SINKER.

Everyone that bought a Mini-Rig will be in SERIOUS trouble and will need to come up with an additional $15,000 per Mini-Rig to protect their investment once ASICs hit.

I feel sorry for those deep pocketed people....I can think of so much more to do with THAT amount of money.

[rjk]

So....I just want to understand correctly.

A company who offers FPGA boards without a functional bitstream and with a length of delivery of around 2 months now is taking the heat of a company who offers FPGA with a functional bitstream with a delivery of around 2 months. So the company who delivers in 2 months (not the first one, the second) announce they are working on "vaporware" to prevent the company with the incomplete FPGA to sell too much of them.

 

Only just a little bit more complicated than that, my dear sir.

[Brunic]

So....I just want to understand correctly.

A company who offers FPGA boards without a functional bitstream and with a length of delivery of around 2 months now is taking the heat of a company who offers FPGA with a functional bitstream with a delivery of around 2 months. So the company who delivers in 2 months (not the first one, the second) announce they are working on "vaporware" to prevent the company with the incomplete FPGA to sell too much of them.

 

Only just a little bit more complicated than that, my dear sir.

Yeah, I know. If it was not for their horrible launch back this winter, I'm pretty sure BFL would be highly regarded around here.

Poor guys, they are probably working their ass off to respect delivery time, and whenever they come on this forum to announce something, they create the biggest shitstorm I've ever seen.

[MrTeal]

Let's use gigavps as an example....

To all gigaminers:

There has been a lot of news / discussion in recent days regarding new equipment coming out from Butterfly Labs. I have confirmed with BFL that this information is indeed correct and have submitted an order for 4 more mini rigs. This will bring gigamining up to a total of 8 mini rigs (204Gh/s), 14 BFL Singles (12Gh/s) and around 90 GPUs (36Gh/s).

He will be holding a total of 8 Mini-Rigs and 14 Bitforce Singles.

Do you have any idea what HIS 'Trade-Up' costs will be @ 1:1 'Trade-up' Ratio ?

8 Mini-Rigs ($15,000) to 8 SC Mini-Rigs ($30,000) = $15,000 each (upgrade cost) = $120,000 USD
14 Singles ($600) to 14 SC Singles ($1300) = $700 each (upgrade cost) = $9,800 USD

So, unless gigavps just gives up and quits when ASICS come out, as his current hardware will be next to useless....

HE WILL NEED TO COME UP WITH NEARLY $130,000 USD (One Hundred Thirty Thousand Dollars) just to become competitive again.

FUCK ME !

Even with a 1:1 limit on units, Giga wouldn't necessarily need to spend that much to upgrade. If he is not interested in fully upgrading all his hardware, he could always sell an FPGA minirig to someone who is interested in buying a SC Minirig at a discount, which the new buyer could use to reduce the cost of their SC purchase.


Still, the whole way this has gone about is just stinky. The fact that there's been no other word from BFL since the announcement other than further FUD on a competitor's thread is hardly reassuring, as is BFL listing their company's employees by last initial in their press release.

Warning, baseless FUD to follow-> It's widely known now that the Singles and the Minirig Singles are previous generation top of the line FPGAs, which it is assumed BFL acquired used or discontinued at a massive discount. If you were running a company with such a business model for all your products, and you take cash up front before a product is ever shipped, what would you do if your supply of incredibly cheap hardware dries up and you have to start sourcing it at a much increased cost?

[SgtSpike]

I'd be willing to trade up my 10 BFL Singles for 5 BFL SC Singles, and go from 8gh to 200gh.  I don't see what the problem would be.

*shrug*

NOT gonna happen. I can almost bet. How can they offer that ? THEY NEED MORE OF YOUR MONEY !

It will be a 1:1 Trade-Up Ratio. Your current 10 Singles will be eligible to trade up against 10 new SC Singles + approx $7,000 USD ($700 x 10). So start saving up.

Pure speculation.

Let's use gigavps as an example....

To all gigaminers:

There has been a lot of news / discussion in recent days regarding new equipment coming out from Butterfly Labs. I have confirmed with BFL that this information is indeed correct and have submitted an order for 4 more mini rigs. This will bring gigamining up to a total of 8 mini rigs (204Gh/s), 14 BFL Singles (12Gh/s) and around 90 GPUs (36Gh/s).

He will be holding a total of 8 Mini-Rigs and 14 Bitforce Singles.

Do you have any idea what HIS 'Trade-Up' costs will be @ 1:1 'Trade-up' Ratio ?

8 Mini-Rigs ($15,000) to 8 SC Mini-Rigs ($30,000) = $15,000 each (upgrade cost) = $120,000 USD
14 Singles ($600) to 14 SC Singles ($1300) = $700 each (upgrade cost) = $9,800 USD

So, unless gigavps just gives up and quits when ASICS come out, as his current hardware will be next to useless....

HE WILL NEED TO COME UP WITH NEARLY $130,000 USD (One Hundred Thirty Thousand Dollars) just to become competitive again.

FUCK ME !

Pure speculation.

BFL WILL NOT 'TRADE-UP' WITHOUT ADDITIONAL MONEY.....you are missing the point.

They have everyone, HOOK, LINE and SINKER.

Everyone that bought a Mini-Rig will be in SERIOUS trouble and will need to come up with an additional $15,000 per Mini-Rig to protect their investment once ASICs hit.

I feel sorry for those deep pocketed people....I can think of so much more to do with THAT amount of money.

Pure speculation.


I'm not sure why I continue to defend BFL though.  The more FUD you can spread about them, the fewer people who will buy them, the quicker I'll be able to get them.

[bitlane]

Pure speculation.

Please tell me that you don't have your head up in the clouds and think for a second that BFL would even consider (FROM A BUSINESS STANDPOINT) offering a 'Trade-up' program and allowing more than a 1:1 ratio.
To think that would be insane.

My speculation is based on logic.

[KyleH]

BITLANE = SPECULATION
There is no proof of any of these delusional scenarios he talks about, he's just pulling them out of his fear mongering ass.

[SgtSpike]

Pure speculation.

Please tell me that you don't have your head up in the clouds and think for a second that BFL would even consider (FROM A BUSINESS STANDPOINT) offering a 'Trade-up' program and allowing more than a 1:1 ratio.
To think that would be insane.

My speculation is based on logic.

Or, perhaps, just MAYBE, they want to create a reputation of being an upstanding Bitcoin miner manufacturer.  Perhaps, just MAYBE, they'd rather not screw over their customers who have yet to receive their products, and would instead rather take a hit on the sales of the previous units to ensure trustworthiness on the sale of future units.

Perhaps what is insane to someone who looks at "business standpoints" from such a short-sited point of view, is not actually insane at all, but entirely realistic as part of a sustainable, long-term business plan.

[BR0KK]

arround 200x 4 (to 6) weeks

[hashking]

This is the response that I received when I posted the scenario of a forced trade in.  They said they will send everyone their equipment.  The change to asic forces you to trade in your equipment.  So they found a better way to do it without making you think you were forced into it.



https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77796.msg959572#msg959572

Hashking
I have a feeling BFL's announcement friday is not going to be good.  They are probably going to say something along the lines that if you  purchased a single, you will not receive them and you will be the first ones to get credit towards an asic.  Kind of a forced upgrade.   I'm thinking that they ran out of cheap chips for the singles and that's why they stopped shipping them.   

BFL
All of the singles and Mini-Rigs will be delivered. We've got more components than we need.
Stay tuned for the upcoming announcement.


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

[Syke]

So....I just want to understand correctly.

A company who offers FPGA boards without a functional bitstream and with a length of delivery of around 2 months now is taking the heat of a company who offers FPGA with a functional bitstream with a delivery of around 2 months. So the company who delivers in 2 months (not the first one, the second) announce they are working on "vaporware" to prevent the company with the incomplete FPGA to sell too much of them.

 

Nice distortion of the facts. BFL takes payment upfront, then delivers months later. Enterpoint takes payment and then ships immediately.

I double-dog dare BFL to grow up and become a respectable business and not require payment up front on SCs that don't exist.

[Pipesnake]

BFL claimed in the press release to have a venture capitalist.  If that were true why would they need preorder money for asic hardware?

Here is a much more likely scenario:  BFL wants to get their next-generation ASIC hardware out sooner than planned and is going to use your pre-order money to get things moving faster.  If BFL cannot get the hardware out fast enough, or a competitor beats them to market, BFL will simply file for Bankruptcy protection and you can kiss your unsecured creditor pre-order funds goodbye.

You can pretend I'm not correct but you know this is accurate.

[BR0KK]

BFL claimed in the press release to have a venture capitalist.  If that were true why would they need preorder money for asic hardware?

Here is a much more likely scenario:  BFL wants to get their next-generation ASIC hardware out sooner than planned and is going to use your pre-order money to get things moving faster.  If BFL cannot get the hardware out fast enough, or a competitor beats them to market, BFL will simply file for Bankruptcy protection and you can kiss your unsecured creditor pre-order funds goodbye.

You can pretend I'm not correct but you know this is accurate.

cause thats what they were, and what they are doing with the singles and rigs ? Accepting pre payment and not delivering within promised time specs....

U are their venture capitalist when u preorder

[galambo]

Nice distortion of the facts. BFL takes payment upfront, then delivers months later. Enterpoint takes payment and then ships immediately.

BFL delivered? What? When? Where? How? To who?

[rjk]

Nice distortion of the facts. BFL takes payment upfront, then delivers months later. Enterpoint takes payment and then ships immediately.

BFL delivered? What? When? Where? How? To who?

Take a look at the list of customers that have reported delivery here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77796.0

See some videos of the product in action here: http://vimeo.com/42438781 and http://vimeo.com/41028028

See people selling them to other people here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87500.msg961912#msg961912

See photos on pretty much every other page of the FPGA section.

See yourself get bitchslapped with the evidence they they do, indeed, exist. Troll harder.

[dirtycat]

BFL WILL NOT 'TRADE-UP' WITHOUT ADDITIONAL MONEY.....you are missing the point.

They have everyone, HOOK, LINE and SINKER.

Everyone that bought a Mini-Rig will be in SERIOUS trouble and will need to come up with an additional $15,000 per Mini-Rig to protect their investment once ASICs hit.

I feel sorry for those deep pocketed people....I can think of so much more to do with THAT amount of money.

Im gonna agree with bitlane on this one.. from a business perspective think about it.. they are NOT going to let you just trade in 1:1 or 200 singles for one SUPER MEGA RIG your gonna have to front some cash along with your hardware.  Thats what I would do.. BFL knows what they are doing and they do it well.  Its not bad business practices or ethics its just what you do to make money.  Sure its speculation at the moment.. but you have to think about it from a sellers eyes not from a buyers eyes. GO BFL MAKE THAT MONEY!!!!

[mem]

BFL could easily silence all of us up by showing a hint of some proof.  But they can't because there is none.  Notice Inaba and Gigavps are (smartly) keeping their mouths shut this time.

This will work "Inaba your a bitch and a liar" - he will be here any moment now

Too many people are jumping right into BFL's arms, BLINDLY.

Not enough questions are being asked and not enough answered.

The Trade-Up program is going to create a HUGE shit storm in the end, because people just don't realize that once they buy a BFL unit with future hopes of this 'Upgrade' that they are basically signing up to be a 'BFL Bitch' for the long run....

Hi Bitlane, glad to see you have stopped attacking me with personal insults and have woken up (bitlane stooped to exceedingly offensive insults and accusations when I aired the same concerns regarding BFL). 
Funny that you find yourself in my shoes now.

[1l1l11ll1l]

At least the website is updated now, we'll all have our ASICs this October!

[jjshabadoo]

So why the hell would anyone want a mini rig if the ASIC is imminent ? Oh yeah, you think they will give you a dollar for dollar trade in. Then what are they going to go with all those useless mini rigs ? give them away to charity ?

This just gets more ridiculous by the moment.

[rjk]

So why the hell would anyone want a mini rig if the ASIC is imminent ? Oh yeah, you think they will give you a dollar for dollar trade in. Then what are they going to go with all those useless mini rigs ? give them away to charity ?

This just gets more ridiculous by the moment.

I too wonder what will be done with the old hardware. Since it is FPGA, it seems plausible that they could reconstitute it for other purposes, but not sure what. With only a USB port, it seems that they wouldn't be good for very much.