Spreading bitcoin to the masses

[InstantBTC]

SunAvatar will take over the project and do it his own way, if you donated to the address that I had posted I will return it to the address the coin was sent from.

[1714327211]

1714327211

[1714327211]

1714327211

[1714327211]

1714327211

[inh]

I'll handle St. Louis, MO. with at least $50 of my own money.

[Serge]

aim at Memorial Day weekend at the end of May

[InstantBTC]

aim at Memorial Day weekend at the end of May

That is too soon I think, and it is a Monday, I think we want to aim for either a Friday night or a Saturday.

[cuddlefish]

hat
EDIT: Somebody just said that writing on money might be illegal, can anybody confirm this? I'm googling around right now.

It is not.

[mizerydearia]

hat
EDIT: Somebody just said that writing on money might be illegal, can anybody confirm this? I'm googling around right now.

It is not.

    Yes, it is called Mutilation of national bank obligations

    United States Code

    TITLE 18 – CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

    PART I – CRIMES

    CHAPTER 17 – COINS AND CURRENCY

    § 333. Mutilation of national bank obligations

    “Whoever mutilates, cuts, defaces, disfigures, or perforates, or unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, or Federal Reserve bank, or the Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt unfit to be reissued, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.”

However, that shouldn't scare you.  Legality exists to continue your enslavement.  Submit or not.

By possessing papers that have graffiti on them does not imply that the defacement was by the current possessor.

[edd]

with intent to render such bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt unfit to be reissued

This would have to be proven.

[cuddlefish]

hat
EDIT: Somebody just said that writing on money might be illegal, can anybody confirm this? I'm googling around right now.

It is not.

    Yes, it is called Mutilation of national bank obligations

    United States Code

    TITLE 18 – CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

    PART I – CRIMES

    CHAPTER 17 – COINS AND CURRENCY

    § 333. Mutilation of national bank obligations

    “Whoever mutilates, cuts, defaces, disfigures, or perforates, or unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, or Federal Reserve bank, or the Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt unfit to be reissued, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.”

However, that shouldn't scare you.  Legality exists to continue your enslavement.  Submit or not.

By possessing papers that have graffiti on them does not imply that the defacement was by the current possessor.

Unfit to be re-issued? Does a stamp make it unfit to be re-issued?

I don't think it does.
(therefore no intent!)

[Astro]

   “Whoever mutilates, cuts, defaces, disfigures, or perforates, or unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, or Federal Reserve bank, or the Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt unfit to be reissued, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.”

It isn't illegal by any stretch of the imagination.  There is an entire site will millions of users called wheresgeorge.com that has been doing this for years and years.  The legality of marking bills has been discussed ad nauseam on their forums.  It is perfectly legal.

Don't worry about it.

[Shortline]

Why not just buy more bitcoin, approach charitable organizations whom you admire, ask them to accept btc donations? Surely Wikipedia accepting bitcoin donations would spread the word wider, faster and with less confusion than this.

[eof]

I am gdoteof(_home) in the forums.  There are a couple of us making a fair amount of noise in Burlington VT about bitcoin.  We don't have a big mall to drop things from, but we can figure something out.

I support this idea; but just want to touch on a little bit of politics.

The rhetoric and philosophy behind any of these campaigns should tread really lightly on the "its an investment" idea.  People love to call bitcoin a pyramid scheme and we don't want to give them any ammunition.

I heard the weusecoins.com radio commercial on that show Gavin was on tonight, and I really wasn't into the "bitcoin is going up" bit.  Don't get me wrong, I am on record saying bitcoin is going to the moon, but we need to push the freedom, rights, etc.. issue.

Really, I just think people should be aware that there are enemies of bitcoin already, and they will only get more vehement as we grow stronger and those that emotionally support the state will grow more hostile toward us.  I hope that doesn't happen, but I think it will.

In that light, I think we should be very careful, even in our forum discussions about both the rhetoric we use, and the actual intentions we have.  Everyone wants to get rich, but we also want a currency that *empowers people*, and bitcoin has a real chance at becoming that on a large scale.  Bitcoins success == a much more fair world than we have now.

Getting rich making the world a better place is wonderful, but if you're going to propagandize, please please please do it with the intention of making the world a better place.

[inh]

eof everything you said just reinforces that we need another or a better weusecoins.com video up, but there's already another thread for that.

[rezin777]

Don't get me wrong, I am on record saying bitcoin is going to the moon, but we need to push the freedom, rights, etc.. issue.

Well damn, every time I've mentioned anything along those lines I get slammed for being a fanatical anarchist. So, you should even be careful promoting it that way.

[InstantBTC]

Derp. Somebody made a good point above, happy days. Continue discussing and thanks for showing your support

[marcus_of_augustus]

July 4th,

Independence Day would be poignant given the history of the previous breaking from the clutches of the banking and currency cartel ... how many malls open though?

Maybe do it at the big fireworks rallies many towns and cities have?

[inh]

July 4th,

Independence Day would be poignant given the history of the previous breaking from the clutches of the banking and currency cartel ... how many malls open though?

Maybe do it at the big fireworks rallies many towns and cities have?

Agreed! As far as I know most everywhere is open for the 4th..

[rezin777]

July 4th

That's a good idea. If you get slammed for being a freedom lover in the U.S. on the 4th of July, something is wrong. That is a fantastic day to remind people what freedom is all about.

[InstantBTC]

July 4th

That's a good idea. If you get slammed for being a freedom lover in the U.S. on the 4th of July, something is wrong. That is a fantastic day to remind people what freedom is all about.

I love the idea behind it, but as long as I am respectful to the dollar, which I will be, I am not breaking any laws it would seem. I need to pay mind to all security marks and all that fun stuff and make sure that I am being totally respectful of the dollar itself, and make sure that the mark that I put on them is tasteful and will not render it unfit to serve as a legal tender of the USA.

Now to the date, the 4th sounds nice, I like that idea, but does anybody actually go to the mall on the 4th of July? I've never been to a mall on the 4th of July so I don't know if they are crowded on that day.

[Anonymous]

Someone going to film this for youtube ?

Flashmob ftw.

[mizerydearia]

A bunch of bitcoiners should gather with bitcoin memorabilia/merchandise/wearables/holdables

[wb3]

What would be very interesting, is to Stamp the QR Code for .10 BTC with a redemption site below it.  It would be like through away $200 dollars but with increase demand, what you have already invested becomes more valuable. PUMP IT UP

[InstantBTC]

Someone going to film this for youtube ?

Flashmob ftw.

The money falling would have been filmed yes, other than possible news coverage, that would have been the proof that the deed had been done.

[marcus_of_augustus]

If you want to create some excitement have a plant or two in the crowd to shout

"Hey, I just found a 100 bucks!"

at some point after the windfall begins and then watch the mayhem ... that might be bordering on disrupting the peace or some such though ...

[Herodes]

I read the part about being illegal to "tamper" with dollar bills. What if the tampering were done in such a way that it was easily reversible? For instance having the bills wrapped in plastic with bitcoin signs on it, or having stickers on them that will be possible to rip of the bills wihout damage? That's should not be illegal?

[Astro]

I read the part about being illegal to "tamper" with dollar bills. What if the tampering were done in such a way that it was easily reversible? For instance having the bills wrapped in plastic with bitcoin signs on it, or having stickers on them that will be possible to rip of the bills wihout damage? That's should not be illegal?

Writing on them, or stamping them, is not illegal.

[InstantBTC]

I read the part about being illegal to "tamper" with dollar bills. What if the tampering were done in such a way that it was easily reversible? For instance having the bills wrapped in plastic with bitcoin signs on it, or having stickers on them that will be possible to rip of the bills wihout damage? That's should not be illegal?

This post inspired me to keep working on this project. But using a sticker would be better I think.

[InstantBTC]

I read the part about being illegal to "tamper" with dollar bills. What if the tampering were done in such a way that it was easily reversible? For instance having the bills wrapped in plastic with bitcoin signs on it, or having stickers on them that will be possible to rip of the bills wihout damage? That's should not be illegal?

Writing on them, or stamping them, is not illegal.

What is your evidence?

[InstantBTC]

What would be very interesting, is to Stamp the QR Code for .10 BTC with a redemption site below it.  It would be like through away $200 dollars but with increase demand, what you have already invested becomes more valuable. PUMP IT UP

Most people don't know what a QR code is yet, I think this would waist a lot of coins, between the people who don't bother redeeming them, the people who don't even know what to do with the QR code, so on so forth.

[Anonymous]

Someone get qr code stickers with bitcoin addresses embedded in them or a code to redeem bitcoins at some site.

A physical version of the bitcoin faucet

[Ian Maxwell]

EDIT: I see wb3 just beat me to this idea.

If you're handing out marked dollars, here's an idea: hand out bitcoins at the same time.

That is, stamp the notes with a statement that they can be redeemed for 0.1 bitcoins---or some other amount, I don't know. It should probably be somewhere around 2/3 of a dollar's worth at the time you do this. Get weusecoins.org to put up a section on "Redeeming your bitcoin-backed dollar," which will probably involve sending it in to them or to some other redemption agency you've set up.

Hmm... what could the stamp say? It needs to be simple but pithy. Something like:
"Redeemable for 0.1 bitcoins -- weusecoins.com"

Or:
"Backed by Bitcoin -- weusecoins.com"
and only mention the amount on the website.

The great thing about this is that it gives the recipients a very easy way to get a small but predictable amount of BTC. Admittedly it's an expensive way, but maybe they'll hold onto that dollar and check the exchange rate again a month or two later, and find that buying bitcoins with it is a good idea after all.

The not so great thing is that an unscrupulous person could try to imitate the stamp and get some cheap bitcoins, once the exchange rate improves. This could be somewhat mitigated by keeping a record of the serial numbers of all bills stamped in this way.

[NghtRppr]

If you're handing out marked dollars, here's an idea: hand out bitcoins at the same time.

Here's how I did it. I hid random codes under a scratchoff and handed them out.



It was for the event mentioned in this http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=6202.msg90943#msg90943 thread.

[InstantBTC]

If you're handing out marked dollars, here's an idea: hand out bitcoins at the same time.

Here's how I did it. I hid random codes under a scratchoff and handed them out.



It was for the event mentioned in this http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=6202.msg90943#msg90943 thread.

That is a bit of a change of game plan but it could definitely work, but people who have been a miner since the beginning would probably have to fund the project seeing as to make that worthwhile it would put anybody who buys the coins into bankruptcy.

[Ian Maxwell]

bitcoin2cash, that's great! How much did these cost to make? (It looks like they're just business cards with scratch-off stickers applied, so maybe not too much.) Did you include any explanations or anything on the reverse?

I think this event could use something similar, but 0.1 bitcoins---or maybe a mix of 0.01 and 0.1---would be more reasonable than 1 at this point. The smaller the denomination, the more cards can be handed out.

[NghtRppr]

bitcoin2cash, that's great! How much did these cost to make? (It looks like they're just business cards with scratch-off stickers applied, so maybe not too much.) Did you include any explanations or anything on the reverse?

I think this event could use something similar, but 0.1 bitcoins---or maybe a mix of 0.01 and 0.1---would be more reasonable than 1 at this point. The smaller the denomination, the more cards can be handed out.

If I remember my calculations, they were something like 18 cents each to make, not counting the ink and my time. The backs are blank.

[Ian Maxwell]

Hm... by my calculations, I ought to be able to produce a batch of 1000 cards for $128, so about 12-13 cents apiece. Maybe I'm underestimating the cost of ink, though.

In fact, if we do want to have a mass bitcoin giveaway, I'd be happy to design and manufacture the scratch-off cards and sell them to the "money-givers" at face value. (I'll also accept donations to defray the printing costs, if I do this.) I think they ought to have a quick explanation on the reverse, at least.

[InstantBTC]

Hm... by my calculations, I ought to be able to produce a batch of 1000 cards for $128, so about 12-13 cents apiece. Maybe I'm underestimating the cost of ink, though.

In fact, if we do want to have a mass bitcoin giveaway, I'd be happy to design and manufacture the scratch-off cards and sell them to the "money-givers" at face value. (I'll also accept donations to defray the printing costs, if I do this.) I think they ought to have a quick explanation on the reverse, at least.

I like this idea, and after doing the math, it is actually more economical than throwing money is. At the current market value ($7usd/btc) $700=100 btc, which equates to 1000 cards with each card containing 0.10 bitcoins. Which means that each card costs $0.13+$0.70=$0.83 per card AKA per person we give them out to, factoring in shipping costs it will probably cost $0.85 per card, PLUS this way we would be controlling the amount each person receives instead of the people who horde as many dollars as they can. We can give this a trial run of 1000 cards in each city (LA, Chicago, New york). Which means that we will need 300 bitcoins to cover the cost of the value of each card, another 15-20 to cover the cost of the starting supplies and shipping. So at the moment our donation goal is 320 bitcoins.

A idea that occurred to me while typing the above, we can have businesses that accept bitcoins (that we would want to be something that a first time bitcoiner to see) "sponsor" a number of cards to have their URLs on the card somewhere saying something like "This card was sponsored by : http://bitcoin.org". That will probably help cover a portion of the costs.

SunAvatar do you think you could work up a example card? Or really anybody work up a really nice design that we can use for this? Things that we will want included are...
A catchy phrase.
WeUseCoins.org
and probably some other required things but I'm very tired right now and I'm going to just copy and paste this into the OP for now, then make it look pretty later.

I will make this the "official" game plan for now as it is the best idea yet. Donations are more than welcomed now.

[cuddlefish]

A idea that occurred to me while typing the above, we can have businesses that accept bitcoins (that we would want to be something that a first time bitcoiner to see) "sponsor" a number of cards to have their URLs on the card somewhere saying something like "This card was sponsored by : http://bitcoin.org". That will probably help cover a portion of the costs.

Yep. I'll give you 10 BTC to print the following text on the back of each card:

"Need more Bitcoins? Go to Ubitex.org." (By that time I'll have the login page up so it won't be nearly so hard)

[InstantBTC]

A idea that occurred to me while typing the above, we can have businesses that accept bitcoins (that we would want to be something that a first time bitcoiner to see) "sponsor" a number of cards to have their URLs on the card somewhere saying something like "This card was sponsored by : http://bitcoin.org". That will probably help cover a portion of the costs.

Yep. I'll give you 10 BTC to print the following text on the back of each card:

"Need more Bitcoins? Go to Ubitex.org." (By that time I'll have the login page up so it won't be nearly so hard)

10 BTC would have it printed on the back of 100 cards. Your basically "paying" for the card to be made.

[cuddlefish]

A idea that occurred to me while typing the above, we can have businesses that accept bitcoins (that we would want to be something that a first time bitcoiner to see) "sponsor" a number of cards to have their URLs on the card somewhere saying something like "This card was sponsored by : http://bitcoin.org". That will probably help cover a portion of the costs.

Yep. I'll give you 10 BTC to print the following text on the back of each card:

"Need more Bitcoins? Go to Ubitex.org." (By that time I'll have the login page up so it won't be nearly so hard)

10 BTC would have it printed on the back of 100 cards. Your basically "paying" for the card to be made.

Yes, exactly.

[lacedwithkerosene]

Think this should be done at a college and not at a mall. Mall crowds will be more diverse but I can't see most shoppers caring enough to look it up on google, and we don't really need an influx of confused junior high students who will flood the forums and suck it up.

With college kids you get people who are naturally on their laptops often and don't mind satisfying their curiosity while procrastinating. Aim for the Apple crowd. Aim for hipsters who might trend us and blog us. They could be the next demographic to join in. Too early for most everyone else. Need name recognition so the ball gets rolling.

For people to really care though, the community needs to have more buying options and better looking, more advanced sites. Most everything looks underdeveloped, in beta.  It would have been easier back in the day when angelfire and geocities were acceptable. Now that quality is like playing tennis with a wooden racket.  

[Ian Maxwell]

All right, here's something I mocked up over a couple of hours.

 

(The full size files look somewhat better than these.)

I think the copy on the reverse could use some work---it's hard to cram much information onto a business card. As it is, the typeface is already pretty small. Maybe we should go with something bigger? Or maybe I should aim for intriguing rather than informative?

Also, the redemption URL is blocked out because I haven't got one yet.  

Ubitex, how does the "banner ad" look? I think it could be improved, and I'm happy to work with you on that. I'll print 1000 cards with your ad for 25 BTC, or 200 for 10 BTC. (The "extra" will cover the cost of shipping and my time.) The same offer goes out to anyone else who wants to sponsor some cards.

[goatpig]

You should add "don't join Deepbit" at the end...

[Ian Maxwell]

For 0.025/card I will include any text that is legal to hand out in public in the United States, including "Don't join Deepbit."

[Alex Beckenham]

Also, the redemption URL is blocked out because I haven't got one yet.  

SunAvatar, I will donate 'bitcoinvoucher.com' to the cause if you build a website and tell me the name servers.

*I'll personally guarantee to keep the domain pointed there for at least 6 months, and will give plenty of notice if there is to be any change.

[Gavin Andresen]

I'd suggest removing/replacing the "it is anonymous" claim.
Anonymity and bitcoin is...complicated.  I'd suggest:

"It is like cash" -- no one can steal your identity

[Alex Beckenham]

I'd suggest removing/replacing the "it is anonymous" claim.

And the 'no one can track your purchases' claim, actually.

[evoorhees]

Throwing this idea out there:  If you're giving out Bitcoins to get people excited and curious, perhaps don't tell them exactly how many Bitcoins they've "won." Instead, the card should say "find out how many you've won by visiting xxxxxxxxxx.com" or something similar.  This curiosity element may yield better response rates. A truly scientific group would take two cities and distribute fixed amounts in one city and unknown amounts in the other city, then track response rates and adapt the program accordingly.

[NghtRppr]

All right, here's something I mocked up over a couple of hours.

Colors around the edges are a pain if you plan on printing these yourself.

[InstantBTC]

For 0.025/card I will include any text that is legal to hand out in public in the United States, including "Don't join Deepbit."

Since you are making the cards I can't really stop you but the point of this project isn't to make money its to spread bitcoins, to the public. I'm going to be spending a fair bit of my time passing these cards out and driving the 45 minutes into downtown LA (using my own gas money) and you want to take personal gain for adding extra text, something that costs you nothing at all? If I'm missing something here please tell me. If people want to sponsor a card with a appropriate term than I think that's a good idea too, but not for your personal gain, I think I can look into other resources for production of the card if that's the case.

EDIT: or actually it'd be easier if I just let you take full control of the project and do it however you wish. Feel free to create your own thread and let this thread fall down.

[Ian Maxwell]

@InstantBTC: What personal gain? I'm performing the service of printing and assembling these cards, and cuddlefish offered to pay for ad space to defray the cost.. I asked 0.025 because that's the point at which I'm sure my cash costs are covered, so that all I have to worry about are my time costs. It will allow me to send the cards at face value to people who want to give them out. Should I pay for the privilege of assembling these cards for other people?

If I were doing this strictly for profit, I'd have to surcharge at least 0.05/card to make it worth my while. By that standard I am expecting to donate at least 100 BTC worth of labor to this project, and possibly much more. If I get a high enough volume of orders, I will probably have to pay out of pocket for high speed production. I'm actually considering backing out as I think about this, and getting complaints that I'm daring to take money for it isn't making me feel much better.

[InstantBTC]

@InstantBTC: What personal gain? I'm performing the service of printing and assembling these cards, and cuddlefish offered to pay for ad space to defray the cost.. I asked 0.025 because that's the point at which I'm sure my cash costs are covered, so that all I have to worry about are my time costs. It will allow me to send the cards at face value to people who want to give them out. Should I pay for the privilege of assembling these cards for other people?

If I were doing this strictly for profit, I'd have to surcharge at least 0.05/card to make it worth my while. By that standard I am expecting to donate at least 100 BTC worth of labor to this project, and possibly much more. If I get a high enough volume of orders, I will probably have to pay out of pocket for high speed production. I'm actually considering backing out as I think about this, and getting complaints that I'm daring to take money for it isn't making me feel much better.

Why wouldn't you just have the business/individual pay for the card that they want their text on instead of relying only on donations

[MoonShadow]

@instantBTC

It doesn't matter if he's making a profit off of this project or he isn't.  The only thing that matters is, can he get good quality printing done for less than you can?

[InstantBTC]

@instantBTC

It doesn't matter if he's making a profit off of this project or he isn't.  The only thing that matters is, can he get good quality printing done for less than you can?

I'm sure he can make them cheaper since I would have to have a friend design and then go to kinkos or something to print them. But what I'm saying is that then I would say that I want to be compensated for gas and my time, but I don't want to do that, I would rather have that be a part of my contribution. And if I got payd for gas and my time, so would the people in chicago and new york, and that will add a fair bit of cost to the project. That is my thinking on the matter.

[Ian Maxwell]

Colors around the edges are a pain if you plan on printing these yourself.

They shouldn't be so bad with perforated sheets of business cards. But I still have to actually print these to make sure they're legible at business card size. If not, production cost will probably be a bit higher.

Truthfully, I don't have any special ability to do cheap printing---I'm planning on doing plain old overpriced home printing. Is there anyone here involved with an actual print shop who could get this done on the cheap?

[cuddlefish]

All right, here's something I mocked up over a couple of hours.

(images stripped)

Ubitex, how does the "banner ad" look? I think it could be improved, and I'm happy to work with you on that. I'll print 1000 cards with your ad for 25 BTC, or 200 for 10 BTC. (The "extra" will cover the cost of shipping and my time.) The same offer goes out to anyone else who wants to sponsor some cards.

It looks great, except for one thing: "want" instead of "need". Sounds less pushy.

[Ian Maxwell]

Okay, so now I'm looking at third-party printers, because depending on how many of these we want it really won't be cost effective to do it from home.

How many of these do we want? Speaking for myself, if I spent a few hours in downtown Boston I can imagine handing out 500-1,000 of these things---and Boston is smallish as big cities go. With even a few distributors we could easily find ourselves needing 10,000 cards or more (probably in small denominations like 0.01).

It looks like, for orders over 5,000 cards, these guys will be at least as cheap as home printing, even for two-sided full color as in the mockup. I'm planning to send in a quote request, but first I want to see just how much interest there is. If you're planning to participate, could you post here or PM me with how many cards you'd want, in what denominations?

I wonder if we can still pay for this with advertising. I'll have to ask about minor variations in design when I send in the quote request. Meanwhile, as above, if you're interested in paying the printing cost for some cards, in exchange for ad space, let me know either here or via PM.