BitCoin vs Visa as an investment

[Triffin]

What are the pros/cons of making an equivalent long term investment in both BitCoin and Visa stock ??
Am I wrong to think that they are essentially equivalent ( both are low cost transaction networks )
other than the fact that Visa pays a small but growing dividend ??


Triff ..

[1Referee]

Bitcoin has so much room for growth, the sky is the limit.

Visa is nearly at it's full potential, what can they do different from what they already do? Not much.

From an investor point of view, I will without a doubt choose to have Bitcoin as long term investment.

[Meuh6879]

Bitcoin don't evaporate over the time
... all other asset, yes (even gold is tax and bank "regulate"/stealing process).

[lihuajkl]

Of

Am I wrong to think that they are essentially equivalent ( both are low cost transaction networks )

They are completely different networks. Bitcoin, as we know, is decentralized and anonymous network and Visa is opposite. How come they are the same? And Bitcoin is free or low cost (only when the transaction is less than 0.1BTC,  0.0001 fee is compulsory.) Using VISA's network is expensive comparing to using bitcoin.

[hua_hui]

The main advantage of investing VISA stock is safe and continually receiving dividends. It is nearly impossible for you to have a loss from the investment. But investing bitcoin is too risky due to the volatile price. Can you stand the loss of 10%, even 20% from invested capital in bitcoin or bitcoin related startups? Before you make any decision, you'd better gauge your risk tolerance level!

[Triffin]

My initial enthusiasm for the potential of BitCoin became tempered when
I realized that the proliferation of altcoins ( of dubious utility ) ment that there
was absolutely no barrier to entry in this space ( blockchain based transaction networks )..
Additionally, the fact that the software ( or nearly everything ) is open sourced tells me that
any reasonably funded entity can co-opt this technology ( including Visa, MasterCard etc )
for their own purposes at any time if/when blockchain technology becomes ubiquitous or proves
superior ( cost ) to the existing transaction networks ..

BitCoin may carve a niche for itself as a digital store of value ( digital gold ?? ) or as
a trading vehicle ( due to volatility ) or as an alternative currency ..

 

[exoton]

What are the pros/cons of making an equivalent long term investment in both BitCoin and Visa stock ??
Am I wrong to think that they are essentially equivalent ( both are low cost transaction networks )
other than the fact that Visa pays a small but growing dividend ??


Triff ..

These two proposals have very different risk/reward relationships. Visa on one hand is already an established corporation that gives current income via dividends to their shareholders, and is unlikely not going to go away in any living person's investment horizon.

Bitcoin on the other hand is still very speculative, is far from certain to succeed, however if it does succeed over the long term, it stands to appreciate much more then visa stock would likely rise. You cannot realistically expect to ever earn any kind of income from holding bitcoin safely

[Amph]

bitcoin for sure, faster, less reliable for now, but more potential

[Atdhe]

What are the pros/cons of making an equivalent long term investment in both BitCoin and Visa stock ??
Am I wrong to think that they are essentially equivalent ( both are low cost transaction networks )
other than the fact that Visa pays a small but growing dividend ??


Triff ..

They are not both low cost transaction networks.

Visa is a transaction network. Bitcoin is wannabe currency. If you buy visa stock, it might be worth of something even if existing currencycease to exist and is replaced by other currency.

In BTC case the network can not be bought independently from money. It goes all in bulk.

[panju1]

I would be fearful of making a long term investment in Visa stock.

There are a lot of companies which were leaders in their respective field - Xerox, Nokia, etc; but have been marginalized because they didn't keep up with technological advances.

Visa and Mastercard may be masters of what they do today, but they can be made obsolete if they do not embrace Bitcoin.

[Possum577]

Visa.

The only way credit cards become obsolete is when people stop using debt to conduct their business and personal finances. In the US, at least, credit use is NOT going to decline, not by an amount that will impact the Visa's business any time soon.

Visa's adoption of BTC may happen some day, it would be easy for them to do if they convert to fiat before applying the payment to the balance (given that BTC conversion rate fluctuates so much.

Visa has annuitized it's income based on the materialistic consumer machine that exists in today's world...I'd love to loan ppl money and get paid 20% plus a year for it, fucking amazing.

[Q7]

It has to be bitcoin. Don't forget we are still at the early stage of development and there are so many more things that we haven't done that could potentially bring bitcoin adoption to the next level. One thing to take note is that we have to aim long term and that means keep on holding to it regardless of price movement.

[atleticofa]

Bitcoin for sure

[freedomno1]

What are the pros/cons of making an equivalent long term investment in both BitCoin and Visa stock ??
Am I wrong to think that they are essentially equivalent ( both are low cost transaction networks )
other than the fact that Visa pays a small but growing dividend ??


Triff ..

Visa will be yesterdays asset in a few years unless it keeps changing its model but is the tried and tested one for now
Bitcoin is a new model that has huge potential for growth and development and is tomorrows model being built today
As a stock investment as long as you want normal returns Visa is ok for the next few years, but for accelerated returns and all the associated risks with it got to go with Bitcoin.

Oh and Bitcoin might pay a dividend if it has more altcoin releases like Clam lol.

[Possum577]

It has to be bitcoin. Don't forget we are still at the early stage of development and there are so many more things that we haven't done that could potentially bring bitcoin adoption to the next level. One thing to take note is that we have to aim long term and that means keep on holding to it regardless of price movement.

Statements like this are dangerous because they imply that there's some sort of fact behind it.

What development remains for bitcoin? Bitcoins are created, they exist, people use them to hold their wealth and/or busy things...what more development could exist for bitcoin?

I agree that adoption could increase but that doesn't mean that the price of BTC per fiat would increase. If adoption go to the point where many ppl own Bitcoin and few need to use fiat to buy it the price would remain stable...it's not an investment.

Would you prefer to invest in the Dollar/Euro/GBP/Yen/Yuan or Visa?  That's essentially what this question is about.

[Possum577]

Visa will be yesterdays asset in a few years unless it keeps changing its model but is the tried and tested one for now
Bitcoin is a new model that has huge potential for growth and development and is tomorrows model being built today
As a stock investment as long as you want normal returns Visa is ok for the next few years, but for accelerated returns and all the associated risks with it got to go with Bitcoin.

Oh and Bitcoin might pay a dividend if it has more altcoin releases like Clam lol.

First, what model does Visa need to evolve - the loan money to people, it's one of the oldest and most successful business models (except for prostitution of course.) The evolution that could happen is in the physical card and the currency they accept for transactions or paying off of the balance. All of this is easy to do with using BTC probably the hardest because of its volatility with fiat.

Second, what evidence or fact is there that BTC will have accelerated returns?

Third, how would BTC pay dividends?! It's not a company. It's not owned by a central source. Does the dollar pay you a dividend? No, because it's currency not shares in the ownership of a company.

This is great discussion, I love BTC, I don't like seeing people make wild claims about the future without facts...misleading information is VERY dangerous.

[ObscureBean]

Well investing in Visa is a hell of a lot less risky than investing in Bitcoin. Visa is well define cog within the system whereas Bitcoin is the wild west. You're never gonna get filthy rich with your Visa stock but with Bitcoin there is a glimmer of hope. Bitcoin is lawless and offers no protection whatsoever to investors, in its current form it will always be an 'invest what you can afford to lose' type deal. Right now the only thing that keeps Bitcoin moving forward is trust, everyone always get a bit edgy every time the big guys with petahashes of power come close to controlling 50% of the network's hashrate. In a dog eat dog world, how long can such a delicate balance be maintained? I love Bitcoin but there are some pretty scary kinks that need to be ironed out before the common folk will be ready to part with their hard earned cash. And sleep well at night  

[josef2000]

Bitcoin is muuuuch safer and can still grow fast

[OrientA]

Bitcoin is both money and transaction network. Visa is just a transaction network. Bitcoin is more volatile and risky at the moment.

[freedomno1]

Visa will be yesterdays asset in a few years unless it keeps changing its model but is the tried and tested one for now
Bitcoin is a new model that has huge potential for growth and development and is tomorrows model being built today
As a stock investment as long as you want normal returns Visa is ok for the next few years, but for accelerated returns and all the associated risks with it got to go with Bitcoin.

Oh and Bitcoin might pay a dividend if it has more altcoin releases like Clam lol.

First, what model does Visa need to evolve - the loan money to people, it's one of the oldest and most successful business models (except for prostitution of course.) The evolution that could happen is in the physical card and the currency they accept for transactions or paying off of the balance. All of this is easy to do with using BTC probably the hardest because of its volatility with fiat.

Second, what evidence or fact is there that BTC will have accelerated returns?

Third, how would BTC pay dividends?! It's not a company. It's not owned by a central source. Does the dollar pay you a dividend? No, because it's currency not shares in the ownership of a company.

This is great discussion, I love BTC, I don't like seeing people make wild claims about the future without facts...misleading information is VERY dangerous.

The wording that model can evolve is simply put an alternative to SWIFT using blockchain technology
They won't need as many checks and ledgers and it streamlines the process at a fraction of the cost, money transferring is an old and successful model but the ways we transfer units of value does adapt and change over time, consider the original model of giving money to a bank and having a guardsman protecting the safe at the bank, then the transition to chequing accounts and cheques people used instead of cash, which was then steadily replaced with the use of Visas and the use of the SWIFT network to transfer assets.
Simply put the way we process transactions does change and EVOLVE over time.

The next transition would be to one where communications are secured through a ledger like Bitcoin, with very little margin of error as it communicates with the network, and the ability to perform more advanced contracts with sidechains and 2.0 technology.

Bitcoin is tested and utilized enough that it or a variant will be used in commerce in the future simply because the Blockchain itself is an innovation, the dividends I mentioned were indirect (If you aren't aware of Clam coins then look it up), not directly a Bitcoin dividend but the way it was distributed and the way you claim them kind of are, all you needed was a Bitcoin address in May claim the clams then sell them lol. (Effective dividend haha)

In the future sidechains could do similar things and its worth consideration.