imsaguy
General failure and former
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June 24, 2012, 06:22:36 AM |
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I understand what BFL is saying when they want to give Bit-Pay the first round of pre-orders. But why would they also accept bank wire transfers? Are they doing it just because those are the two non-reversible payment options? They can obviously take Pay-Pal because they take it on there other products. Seems really sketchy to me. I can't believe this many people are willing to throw money at BFL without even so much as a picture of what they are buying.
They have delivered on other products. Really? 4 MR shipped out of how many preorders? The last singles order was fulfilled when? What was the order date? |
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The Bitcoin software, network, and concept is called "Bitcoin" with a capitalized "B". Bitcoin currency units are called "bitcoins" with a lowercase "b" -- this is often abbreviated BTC.
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DavinciJ15
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June 24, 2012, 06:33:45 AM |
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I understand what BFL is saying when they want to give Bit-Pay the first round of pre-orders. But why would they also accept bank wire transfers? Are they doing it just because those are the two non-reversible payment options? They can obviously take Pay-Pal because they take it on there other products. Seems really sketchy to me. I can't believe this many people are willing to throw money at BFL without even so much as a picture of what they are buying.
They have delivered on other products. Really? 4 MR shipped out of how many preorders? The last singles order was fulfilled when? What was the order date? I can't answer that and nether can you with exact to the right numbers and dates. Thus your guess or generaliztion is inaccurate. What I do know is enough orders have been filled to satisfy me. I will agree that preordering from such a small company is a big risk. |
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Luceo
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Per aspera ad astra!
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June 24, 2012, 08:58:40 AM |
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Edit: Regarding refunds and charge back policy: All sales are final unless we fail to perform. That includes both performance and shipping targets. 60 days past target and we'll happily refund your purchase. If you would really like a refund anyway, just ask and we'll probably be able to take care of you. Nonetheless, we reserve the right to handle it on a case by case basis. Is it fair to say that 'target' is 31st October, and therefore that products must be shipped within 2012? |
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dave3
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June 24, 2012, 12:07:48 PM |
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No guts, no glory.  |
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rjk
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1ngldh
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June 24, 2012, 12:08:48 PM |
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No guts, no glory. +1 |
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SysRun
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June 24, 2012, 12:59:13 PM |
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Nobody else noticed him saying they will refund if they are 60 days late on delivery? Surely that should 1 day... that must really fill you all with confidence lol
They have nothing for sale, they are taking your money to start development. Much better than getting the loan from a bank!
Good luck everyone *sarcasm*, I really hope you all get burned for being so stupid ;-)
Could say the same thing about the original singles... I'm getting burned all the way to the bank... But, you know, that FUD serves a purpose, so I shouldn't discourage it. |
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Fjordbit
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June 24, 2012, 01:54:21 PM
Last edit: June 24, 2012, 02:15:07 PM by Fjordbit |
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For example, if you can assure us that no more than 30 TH/s will ship per week, the early buyers can be sure to recover their investment in a reasonable time before the mining difficulty equalizes at 20x what it is now.
This is a little silly. At the present difficulty, these units pay for themselves in about 7 days. Even at 20x the difficulty, it's only 5-10 months (depending on when the reward halving happens). Current hardware has a payoff of 7 months. What you're asking for here is for a special advantage for the early receivers. Just release the hardware as it comes available (with the initial grouping that they indicated). even if BFL could have capacity to rollout 200TH/s weekly, i think it would take 1-3 years for the network to grow to that level.
The current network hashrate (according to bitcoinwatch) is about 12 TH/s. 20x that is 240, so within 2 weeks the difficulty would be at that level. This plus the reward halving is what has killed profitability for video cards and FPGA (outside of BFL which takes trade ins for ASIC). This isn't will kill, if you are thinking about ordering anything other than BFL FPGA right now, don't bother because you won't get your money back. If you want a nice video card for gaming, then buy one and mine to get some of the money back, but expect that by December you won't get the cost of electricity. |
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Bitinvestor
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June 24, 2012, 05:08:21 PM |
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Nobody else noticed him saying they will refund if they are 60 days late on delivery?
They have nothing for sale, they are taking your money to start development. Much better than getting the loan from a bank!
I think you hit the nail on the head. It is said that it takes about 6 months to develop an ASIC. End of October plus 60 days = 6 months + 1 week. |
Those who cause problems for others also cause problems for themselves.
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crazyates
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Merit: 1000
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June 24, 2012, 05:25:34 PM |
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Nobody else noticed him saying they will refund if they are 60 days late on delivery?
They have nothing for sale, they are taking your money to start development. Much better than getting the loan from a bank!
I think you hit the nail on the head. It is said that it takes about 6 months to develop an ASIC. End of October plus 60 days = 6 months + 1 week. Yes, because they're just starting to develop their ASIC right now, after they've made announcements, posted estimated performance numbers, and opened a preorder.  Why is it so hard to believe they've already been working on this for months already now? |
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DutchBrat
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June 24, 2012, 05:26:07 PM |
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http://www.butterflylabs.com/products/Edit: Regarding refunds and charge back policy: All sales are final unless we fail to perform. That includes both performance and shipping targets. 60 days past target and we'll happily refund your purchase. If you would really like a refund anyway, just ask and we'll probably be able to take care of you. Nonetheless, we reserve the right to handle it on a case by case basis. If would help if you clarify what the shipping date is ! October 2012.... October 1st or October 31st ? Would make a difference of 30 days..... |
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ice_chill
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June 24, 2012, 05:33:52 PM |
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http://www.butterflylabs.com/products/Edit: Regarding refunds and charge back policy: All sales are final unless we fail to perform. That includes both performance and shipping targets. 60 days past target and we'll happily refund your purchase. If you would really like a refund anyway, just ask and we'll probably be able to take care of you. Nonetheless, we reserve the right to handle it on a case by case basis. If would help if you clarify what the shipping date is ! October 2012.... October 1st or October 31st ? Would make a difference of 30 days..... Good question, this makes a BIG difference especially to those waiting for their MiniRigs to arrive. |
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Bitinvestor
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June 24, 2012, 05:46:26 PM |
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Yes, because they're just starting to develop their ASIC right now, after they've made announcements, posted estimated performance numbers, and opened a preorder. Why is it so hard to believe they've already been working on this for months already now? Because they've been working on their other products up until now. The Mini Rigs started shipping a few days ago and now they will start working on their ASIC. It doesn't take much effort to estimate performance numbers. |
Those who cause problems for others also cause problems for themselves.
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Dargo
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June 24, 2012, 05:52:52 PM |
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Yes, because they're just starting to develop their ASIC right now, after they've made announcements, posted estimated performance numbers, and opened a preorder. Why is it so hard to believe they've already been working on this for months already now? Because they've been working on their other products up until now. The Mini Rigs started shipping a few days ago and now they will start working on their ASIC. It doesn't take much effort to estimate performance numbers. They can't possibly have a production team, working on existing products, and a development team that has been working on ASICs for a while now? |
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Bitinvestor
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June 24, 2012, 05:58:55 PM |
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They can't possibly have a production team, working on existing products, and a development team that has been working on ASICs for a while now?
Sure, time will tell who is right. I will be surprised if we see ASICs from BFL in 2012. |
Those who cause problems for others also cause problems for themselves.
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Dargo
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June 24, 2012, 06:03:29 PM |
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They can't possibly have a production team, working on existing products, and a development team that has been working on ASICs for a while now?
Sure, time will tell who is right. I will be surprised if we see ASICs from BFL in 2012. You could be right, but they've been pretty emphatic that they've really got their ducks in a row this time - we'll see. |
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imsaguy
General failure and former
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Don't send me a pm unless you gpg encrypt it.
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June 24, 2012, 07:21:56 PM |
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I can't answer that and nether can you with exact to the right numbers and dates. Thus your guess or generaliztion is inaccurate. What I do know is enough orders have been filled to satisfy me.
I will agree that preordering from such a small company is a big risk.
My generalization is inaccurate? Tell that to the list of people that haven't received their orders yet. I know that isn't everyone, but how likely is it that everyone but the people that have listed their order info on the list have received their hardware? I think its far more likely that things just aren't shipping. |
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cuz0882
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June 24, 2012, 09:56:00 PM |
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Ok BFL.. what about us waiting for Singles?
Screw those guys, don't even pick up the phone or return their emails... Just ship orders at random you already have their money, don't get concerned with things like business ethics. It's all doggy dog around here. |
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psahx
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June 24, 2012, 10:30:04 PM |
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Watching...
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simon66
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June 24, 2012, 11:03:32 PM |
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Can you guys please clarify a bit on this? Is there a picture I can see? The one on the site looks like a freaking giant metal plate. How many watts will it need.
If I order today, will I for sure have it on October?
Thanks.
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jaebird
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June 24, 2012, 11:29:11 PM |
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Can you guys please clarify a bit on this? Is there a picture I can see? The one on the site looks like a freaking giant metal plate. How many watts will it need.
If I order today, will I for sure have it on October?
Thanks.
Freaking giant metal plate... That made me choke on my water! LOL |
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