WTF are the politicians doing ?

[AllTheBitz]

How did this devolve into a discussion about religion?  ... This reminds me of my last Civ5 game and how ideology/faith points had no impact on my happiness, gold, resource, or productivity levels. 

Because everything has to be a flame war.

Hey kiddies, games are not real life (sorry to inform you since I know you grew up living in games). And there was no flaming in the upthread religious discussion.

I think that if people are saying that just because you believe in something you are narrow minded and that the bible is for people that don't want to think clearly you are trying to start something.

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[contagion]

All you have to do is repent and you will be saved so don't act like god wants you to burn in hell. he created us with opinions and brains so we could choose are own way and so if your going to not do something as simple as asking for forgiveness ( which you don't have to read the bible to be able to) then yeah you can burn in hell then.

You did not address the logical problem I enumerated. Specifically the Bible does not say all you need to do is repent and you are 100% insured to pass through the narrow gate. It couldn't possibly state that, because then everyone could do evil their entire life then suddenly repent on their death bed. There isn't any enumeration of precise requirements for 100% surety to pass the narrow gate the Bible could do to be precise that couldn't be gamed due to the unbounded entropy of the Universe at stated by the Second Law of Thermodynamics (that the entropy trends to maximum). Thus it is logically impossible for a religion to provide surety. This is why for example there is a Proverb, "never be surety to another" because it binds you to promises you can't guarantee because the future is unbounded.

You are making things up that are not written, because you want to ignore the risk and only think about the part that makes you happy. You have invented your own religion, but it isn't the one written literally in the Bible.

I think that if people are saying that just because you believe in something you are narrow minded and that the bible is for people that don't want to think clearly you are trying to start something.

I guess the flaming must begin now, because you did not address the logic. You ignored it or didn't grasp it.

[BADecker]

All you have to do is repent and you will be saved so don't act like god wants you to burn in hell. he created us with opinions and brains so we could choose are own way and so if your going to not do something as simple as asking for forgiveness ( which you don't have to read the bible to be able to) then yeah you can burn in hell then.

You did not address the logical problem I enumerated. Specifically the Bible does not say all you need to do is repent and you are 100% insured to pass through the narrow gate. It couldn't possibly state that, because then everyone could do evil their entire life then suddenly repent on their death bed. There isn't any enumeration of precise requirements for 100% surety to pass the narrow gate the Bible could do to be precise that couldn't be gamed due to the unbounded entropy of the Universe at stated by the Second Law of Thermodynamics (that the entropy trends to maximum). Thus it is logically impossible for a religion to provide surety. This is why for example there is a Proverb, "never be surety to another" because it binds you to promises you can't guarantee because the future is unbounded.

You are making things up that are not written, because you want to ignore the risk and only think about the part that makes you happy. You have invented your own religion, but it isn't the one written literally in the Bible.

I think that if people are saying that just because you believe in something you are narrow minded and that the bible is for people that don't want to think clearly you are trying to start something.

I guess the flaming must begin now, because you did not address the logic. You ignored it or didn't grasp it.

A person's repentance must always be real.

Consider the bank robber who is always successful. Somewhere along the line he finds God and repents. He even pays back whatever of the money he stole, that he can afford. He goes out and gets a job and starts making payments to the banks he robbed just to pay it all back.

Then his mother becomes terminally ill. She doesn't have insurance, and she can't afford the doctors. The hospital is about to put her out on the street. So the former bank robber figures that this is enough of an excuse to start robbing banks again. Somewhere along the line he quits stealing again. He repents the second time.

The point is, how many times can he do this while maintaining the repentance as sincere repentance? Each time that he falls back into his sin, when he repents, the repentance is a little less sincere than the previous time. If this continues, somewhere along the line he will repent no longer. He might be ashamed, but he will stop repenting. He will simply give in to his "bad habit."

Second Law of Thermodynamics doesn't have anything to do with the things that God works. If the guy is sincere, and if he repents and believes God for Jesus salvation, he will be saved, even though he repents of his repentance and then back a gain a thousand times. The important thing is, each subsequent repentance brings him closer to never repenting again. Each subsequent repentance is done in weaker faith than the previous one.

[interlagos]

As Kryon once put it: "You are here to love God. It's a wonderful system"

I'll just leave it here:
"The Shift & Discovery of Self"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxbmO3AUPlg

[BADecker]

As Kryon once put it: "You are here to love God. It's a wonderful system"

I'll just leave it here:
"The Shift & Discovery of Self"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxbmO3AUPlg

God and the Bible are against channeling. Don't kryon my shoulder.

[AllTheBitz]

All you have to do is repent and you will be saved so don't act like god wants you to burn in hell. he created us with opinions and brains so we could choose are own way and so if your going to not do something as simple as asking for forgiveness ( which you don't have to read the bible to be able to) then yeah you can burn in hell then.

You did not address the logical problem I enumerated. Specifically the Bible does not say all you need to do is repent and you are 100% insured to pass through the narrow gate. It couldn't possibly state that, because then everyone could do evil their entire life then suddenly repent on their death bed. There isn't any enumeration of precise requirements for 100% surety to pass the narrow gate the Bible could do to be precise that couldn't be gamed due to the unbounded entropy of the Universe at stated by the Second Law of Thermodynamics (that the entropy trends to maximum). Thus it is logically impossible for a religion to provide surety. This is why for example there is a Proverb, "never be surety to another" because it binds you to promises you can't guarantee because the future is unbounded.

You are making things up that are not written, because you want to ignore the risk and only think about the part that makes you happy. You have invented your own religion, but it isn't the one written literally in the Bible.

I think that if people are saying that just because you believe in something you are narrow minded and that the bible is for people that don't want to think clearly you are trying to start something.

I guess the flaming must begin now, because you did not address the logic. You ignored it or didn't grasp it.

Yes that is true it doesn't guarantee it 100%( a good start is to repent I didn't say it was all just a major part) but if you have read or listened to some of Jesus teachings you would see what I am talking about . I didn't create my own religion all I did was talk about what you could do if you want me to go into the part about what will happen to you in more detail then just burning in hell we can have a discussion about it then.

[contagion]

All you have to do is repent and you will be saved so don't act like god wants you to burn in hell. he created us with opinions and brains so we could choose are own way and so if your going to not do something as simple as asking for forgiveness ( which you don't have to read the bible to be able to) then yeah you can burn in hell then.

You did not address the logical problem I enumerated. Specifically the Bible does not say all you need to do is repent and you are 100% insured to pass through the narrow gate. It couldn't possibly state that, because then everyone could do evil their entire life then suddenly repent on their death bed. There isn't any enumeration of precise requirements for 100% surety to pass the narrow gate the Bible could do to be precise that couldn't be gamed due to the unbounded entropy of the Universe at stated by the Second Law of Thermodynamics (that the entropy trends to maximum). Thus it is logically impossible for a religion to provide surety. This is why for example there is a Proverb, "never be surety to another" because it binds you to promises you can't guarantee because the future is unbounded.

You are making things up that are not written, because you want to ignore the risk and only think about the part that makes you happy. You have invented your own religion, but it isn't the one written literally in the Bible.

I think that if people are saying that just because you believe in something you are narrow minded and that the bible is for people that don't want to think clearly you are trying to start something.

I guess the flaming must begin now, because you did not address the logic. You ignored it or didn't grasp it.

A person's repentance must always be real.

...

The point is, how many times can he do this while maintaining the repentance as sincere repentance?

Can we be any less precise. My response is the same as it was upthread:

We don't know what it will be like, but it will be glorious and joyful.

nebulous warm fuzzies...

Second Law of Thermodynamics doesn't have anything to do with the things that God works.

Then please inform God to disprove the most fundamental theorem of the Universe, because he/she/it/thing hasn't done so yet.

All I see is nebulous delusion unsubstantiated neither by the literal scripture nor any falsifiable methodology.

...if you want me to go into the part about what will happen to you in more detail then just burning in hell we can have a discussion about it then.

And what can purportedly happen to you too, because you have no absolute assurance you are not going to hell. Absolutely no absolute assurance.

 Matthew 7 New International Version (NIV)
Judging Others

[Jesus said]

7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

[BADecker]

Then please inform God to disprove the most fundamental theorem of the Universe, because he/she/it/thing hasn't done so yet.

All I see is nebulous delusion unsubstantiated neither by the literal scripture nor any falsifiable methodology.

Because God is going to step down and operate according to your logic?

Since people constantly fight what God tells them, sometimes in as simple little ways as you are doing, why would God go against people? Let them have what they are asking for... entropy and then destruction.

We, especially those of us who have the Bible, can pick up the choice to be with God in the New Heavens and the New Earth... or not. You like destruction? Go ahead. Keep on fighting God. God doesn't take your choice away from you. I certainly can't.

[pattu1]

All you have to do is repent and you will be saved so don't act like god wants you to burn in hell. he created us with opinions and brains so we could choose are own way and so if your going to not do something as simple as asking for forgiveness ( which you don't have to read the bible to be able to) then yeah you can burn in hell then.

Are there so many believers in this forum?
Or are they just a vocal minority?

[toddtervy]

How did this devolve into a discussion about religion?  ... This reminds me of my last Civ5 game and how ideology/faith points had no impact on my happiness, gold, resource, or productivity levels. 

Lol, life is a lot like civilization 5 I guess.

[patt0]

All you have to do is repent and you will be saved so don't act like god wants you to burn in hell. he created us with opinions and brains so we could choose are own way and so if your going to not do something as simple as asking for forgiveness ( which you don't have to read the bible to be able to) then yeah you can burn in hell then.

Are there so many believers in this forum?
Or are they just a vocal minority?

Or they are all the same person with many accounts and nothing better to do lol.
I don't know if there are more than 5 different people in this thread xD

[Triffin]

Re: WTF are the politicians doing ?

Enriching themselves with our tax dollars ..

Triff ..

[interlagos]

As Kryon once put it: "You are here to love God. It's a wonderful system"

I'll just leave it here:
"The Shift & Discovery of Self"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxbmO3AUPlg

God and the Bible are against channeling. Don't kryon my shoulder.

I liked the pun, thank you!

I wonder why Bible (and God) would be against channelling?
Does it really matter how information comes through?
Did you know that composing music or writing poetry is a form of channelling too?

What I understand by now is that all truths are true.
If someone believes in God who judges and punishes, that's the God they will face after death. If a person doesn't believe in afterlife at all, he/she won't wake up until the next reincarnation (of course Bible is against that as well).

Beliefs matter. They are the axes of a powerful gyroscope that defines your reality/experience and might not be so easy to change. Wanting or saying that you believe does not equate to believing. That's why the correct order is "Believing is Seeing", not the other way around:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtRQXOcn7oI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfDLEiwLwQE

[BADecker]

As Kryon once put it: "You are here to love God. It's a wonderful system"

I'll just leave it here:
"The Shift & Discovery of Self"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxbmO3AUPlg

God and the Bible are against channeling. Don't kryon my shoulder.

I liked the pun, thank you!

I wonder why Bible (and God) would be against channelling?
Does it really matter how information comes through?
Did you know that composing music or writing poetry is a form of channelling too?

Glad you liked the pun.

I don't know all the reasons why God is against channeling, but here is what I can say simply.

-     Is the information that comes through true?
-     Will the "channel" always be truthful if I get into the habit of listening?
-     In some things we should take God at face value, and listen to Him directly. The snake in the Garden was reasonably truthful. But listening to him brought about the truth in ways that we rather would not have had.

What I understand by now is that all truths are true.
If someone believes in God who judges and punishes, that's the God they will face after death. If a person doesn't believe in afterlife at all, he/she won't wake up until the next reincarnation (of course Bible is against that as well).

Beliefs matter. They are the axes of a powerful gyroscope that defines your reality/experience and might not be so easy to change. Wanting or saying that you believe does not equate to believing. That's why the correct order is "Believing is Seeing", not the other way around:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtRQXOcn7oI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfDLEiwLwQE

However, God's faith (believing) is way stronger than man's. Believe yourself into having an extra pair of arms, one growing out of each side of your body, about half way between your shoulders and your belly button. If you can believe this into happening, you got the power. God believed the whole universe into being from a standing start of nothing. The point? If God believes it this way or that, you and I don't stand a chance believing it some other way. Check out what God says, and believe it His way.

[contagion]

In addition to the unattractive risk versus reward offer of the Christianity faith which I explained upthread, the other major ontological problem with the Christian religion is that it promotes apathy, because heck it doesn't really matter what I do in this life because it is only the after life that is eternal. And since as I explained upthread it is impossible for any religion to precisely define which actions get you to the heaven of it, one could very likely end up in a mental zone of apathy towards their own insufficiently positive actions since this life doesn't really matter any way and the believer can repent later.

Fact is that our genetics and offspring live on for a long time, and the 80 or so years we are on the earth is a lot of time to make a lasting positive mark on the world, e.g. the writings of Adam Smith.

I thus reject Christianity as a mental disease that seems to afflict and prey on the depressed, by offering the drug of elated delusion cum procrastination and sticking head in the "I am holier than thou" sand.

As an example of this apathy, do you know the almost universal response of filipinos when I detailed the coming global economic collapse or even when I explain how their backstabbing or selfish attitudes will bring bad karma to themselves? They don't care because God will always protect them. Did God protect them during WW2 when the Japanese ravaged their islands? Did God protect them from massive poverty?

I used to think that due being not falsifiable that religion was at worst a tautology, but now I realize it is much more devastating.

[Snail2]

God doesn't help.  He only murders.   

God give us free will and consciousness. No other involvement until the final account holding .

[BADecker]

In addition to the unattractive risk versus reward offer of the Christianity faith which I explained upthread, the other major ontological problem with the Christian religion is that it promotes apathy, because heck it doesn't really matter what I do in this life because it is only the after life that is eternal. And since as I explained upthread it is impossible for any religion to precisely define which actions get you to the heaven of it, one could very likely end up in a mental zone of apathy towards their own insufficiently positive actions since this life doesn't really matter any way and the believer can repent later.

Fact is that our genetics and offspring live on for a long time, and the 80 or so years we are on the earth is a lot of time to make a lasting positive mark on the world, e.g. the writings of Adam Smith.

I thus reject Christianity as a mental disease that seems to afflict and prey on the depressed, by offering the drug of elated delusion cum procrastination and sticking head in the "I am holier than thou" sand.

As an example of this apathy, do you know the almost universal response of filipinos when I detailed the coming global economic collapse or even when I explain how their backstabbing or selfish attitudes will bring bad karma to themselves? They don't care because God will always protect them. Did God protect them during WW2 when the Japanese ravaged their islands? Did God protect them from massive poverty?

I used to think that due being not falsifiable that religion was at worst a tautology, but now I realize it is much more devastating.

This is entirely acceptable for you - especially the emphasized part ^^. Why? Because as you have explained elsewhere, you were once a Christian. God says through the writer to the Hebrews in the Bible, that once a Christian falls away like you have, there is no chance that he can turn back to God.

I knew this all along. In everything that I have responded and explained to you, I was doing it so that it might provoke questions and ideas in the minds of others who might happen to read this thread. I knew you were lost from the moment you said you are a former Christian.

[contagion]

I thus reject Christianity as a mental disease that seems to afflict and prey on the depressed, by offering the drug of elated delusion cum procrastination and sticking head in the "I am holier than thou" sand.

This is entirely acceptable for you - especially the emphasized part ^^. Why? Because as you have explained elsewhere, you were once a Christian. God says through the writer to the Hebrews in the Bible, that once a Christian falls away like you have, there is no chance that he can turn back to God.

I knew this all along. In everything that I have responded and explained to you, I was doing it so that it might provoke questions and ideas in the minds of others who might happen to read this thread. I knew you were lost from the moment you said you are a former Christian.

BADecker I don't disagree. Which is probably another reason it took me such a long time to stop standing with one leg on each side of the fence. I think it would be impossible to come back. The only counter-balancing thought I had is that I can't experience all dimensions of the Universe, thus my claim against falsifiability is a decision to base my values in the near-term collective reality of the scientific method (i.e. the reality humans have thus far perceived and communicated). I have decided this is the most sane direction for me, because I want to not do the "detached from reality" life I've been doing since I picked up Christianity in 2006.

[BADecker]

I thus reject Christianity as a mental disease that seems to afflict and prey on the depressed, by offering the drug of elated delusion cum procrastination and sticking head in the "I am holier than thou" sand.

This is entirely acceptable for you - especially the emphasized part ^^. Why? Because as you have explained elsewhere, you were once a Christian. God says through the writer to the Hebrews in the Bible, that once a Christian falls away like you have, there is no chance that he can turn back to God.

I knew this all along. In everything that I have responded and explained to you, I was doing it so that it might provoke questions and ideas in the minds of others who might happen to read this thread. I knew you were lost from the moment you said you are a former Christian.

BADecker I don't disagree. Which is probably another reason it took me such a long time to stop standing with one leg on each side of the fence. I think it would be impossible to come back. The only counter-balancing thought I had is that I can't experience all dimensions of the Universe, thus my claim against falsifiability is a decision to base my values in the near-term collective reality of the scientific method (i.e. the reality humans have thus far perceived and communicated). I have decided this is the most sane direction for me, because I want to not do the "detached from reality" life I've been doing since I picked up Christianity in 2006.

The reality for me when I have spoken about you above^^, is that I don't really know that you were a Christian. You may have been in name. You may have thought you were. But perhaps you never quite made it. In that case, there is still hope for you.

[interlagos]

As Kryon once put it: "You are here to love God. It's a wonderful system"

I'll just leave it here:
"The Shift & Discovery of Self"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxbmO3AUPlg

God and the Bible are against channeling. Don't kryon my shoulder.

I liked the pun, thank you!

I wonder why Bible (and God) would be against channelling?
Does it really matter how information comes through?
Did you know that composing music or writing poetry is a form of channelling too?

Glad you liked the pun.

I don't know all the reasons why God is against channeling, but here is what I can say simply.

-     Is the information that comes through true?
-     Will the "channel" always be truthful if I get into the habit of listening?
-     In some things we should take God at face value, and listen to Him directly. The snake in the Garden was reasonably truthful. But listening to him brought about the truth in ways that we rather would not have had.

I think God created Snake, so that he could play with it
That was the only way to start knowing itself - life is a game and God is no exception.

What I understand by now is that all truths are true.
If someone believes in God who judges and punishes, that's the God they will face after death. If a person doesn't believe in afterlife at all, he/she won't wake up until the next reincarnation (of course Bible is against that as well).

Beliefs matter. They are the axes of a powerful gyroscope that defines your reality/experience and might not be so easy to change. Wanting or saying that you believe does not equate to believing. That's why the correct order is "Believing is Seeing", not the other way around:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtRQXOcn7oI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfDLEiwLwQE

However, God's faith (believing) is way stronger than man's. Believe yourself into having an extra pair of arms, one growing out of each side of your body, about half way between your shoulders and your belly button. If you can believe this into happening, you got the power. God believed the whole universe into being from a standing start of nothing. The point? If God believes it this way or that, you and I don't stand a chance believing it some other way. Check out what God says, and believe it His way.

What if God believed the whole Universe into being for just one reason - to forget that he is God and live a life of a man. What if God got bored (by Alan Watts): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckiNNgfMKcQ