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Author Topic: Cleanup: I'll attack some coins - I owned APEXcoin for 90 blocks  (Read 16999 times)
valarmg
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January 17, 2015, 11:13:12 AM
 #101


Perhaps you read something that I missed then. In his OP he states his reasoning is because of the "quantity" of coins, not the "quality." Personally I see no reason to attack coins, especially ones that meet his own agenda and not the consensus of the entire crypto community. History has shown that most all shit coins will die natural deaths anyway. Let the herd cull itself instead of having some wannabe savior of the crypto world launch attacks on whatever coins he chooses.  

The whole point of crypto-coins is that they are safe from doublespend. If someone shows that they aren't, then he is doing a service to the cryptocurrency industry.

Crypto is still in early days. We are building bridges, and it's better for someone to stress test the bridges before they are declared safe for the general population. If these bridges are unsafe, I want to know now (even if I lose some money).

You'll notice that many who are invested in PoS coins want attacks to be attempted. Better it happen out in the open now rather than in secret in the future.

Also, his attacks don't seem to be destroying coins, just showing they aren't safe. No reason coins couldn't shore up their defenses after the attack, and come back stronger.
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January 17, 2015, 11:52:52 AM
 #102



The whole point of crypto-coins is that they are safe from doublespend. If someone shows that they aren't, then he is doing a service to the cryptocurrency industry.

Crypto is still in early days. We are building bridges, and it's better for someone to stress test the bridges before they are declared safe for the general population. If these bridges are unsafe, I want to know now (even if I lose some money).

You'll notice that many who are invested in PoS coins want attacks to be attempted. Better it happen out in the open now rather than in secret in the future.

Also, his attacks don't seem to be destroying coins, just showing they aren't safe. No reason coins couldn't shore up their defenses after the attack, and come back stronger.

I agree with what you are saying. However, from reading his posts it doesn't seem like he is actually trying to be helpful. It seems more like a "look what I can do" kind of thing. Did the Apexcoin community, whatever there is of it, ask him to attack them? He supposedly successfully attacked Apexcoin, and now the crypto world knows there is a vulnerability in POS. Is there really a need to continue any further attacks? Attack all the dead coins you want, but leave legitimate coins alone.

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January 17, 2015, 12:31:32 PM
 #103

I think it would be usefull if he works with developers to show the weakness in coins and try to find a solution for that.

To play "god" and decide to kill a coin has no use at all, unless you know that some developer is a known scammer and want to stop him from scamming people.
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January 17, 2015, 12:49:51 PM
Last edit: January 17, 2015, 03:56:28 PM by patmast3r
 #104

lots of people complain about the quantity of coins and how the forum is flooded... some proposed ideas to clean it up....
I'll show you how it's done - I'll start attacking weak coins accelerating their death

just wait and see the results, I'll soon show the first victim. Let's start with PoS coins: some people think you need 51% of the supply but this is bs, you need only a very little % if you just want to do a single double spend.

the point of this thread is to see how people react to this: I won't steal from anyone, but some may lose "money".

Some questions:

1. is this a good idea?
2. would you donate so I can attack more POS coins? (maybe spare some coins you are bagholding)
3. would you pay to know the time of the attack and the victim in advance?
4. would you pay for "double spend as a service" (in this case you decide coin and the timing of the attack)?
5. is this legal?
6. do you think someone would pay to have me killed?

go!

update: apexcoin attack successful witih 0,07% of available supply

1. yes
2. no but I'm sure there would be rewards if you show weaknesses
3. no (and frankly, fuck you for offering that)
4. see 3
5. prob impossible to tell as with many things in the crypto-sphere
6. neeehh - prob not.

Has there been any actual proof of your attacks or are you just posting "successfull" messages and everyone is supposed to believe it ?
I'm with most people here. Attack a relatively active NXT clone or fork, show proof and then we can talk.

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January 17, 2015, 12:59:11 PM
 #105


I'm with most people here. Attack a relatively active NXT clone or fork, show proof and then we can talk.
nkt nakamatodark is a hybrid and low market. I'm curious to know if it can handle the stress.

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January 17, 2015, 06:30:50 PM
 #106


Has there been any actual proof of your attacks or are you just posting "successfull" messages and everyone is supposed to believe it ?
I'm with most people here. Attack a relatively active NXT clone or fork, show proof and then we can talk.

Bittrex confirmed his APEX attack.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=686403.msg10169983#msg10169983
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January 17, 2015, 06:52:11 PM
 #107


Has there been any actual proof of your attacks or are you just posting "successfull" messages and everyone is supposed to believe it ?
I'm with most people here. Attack a relatively active NXT clone or fork, show proof and then we can talk.

Bittrex confirmed his APEX attack.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=686403.msg10169983#msg10169983

What's next? This is very popcorn

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January 17, 2015, 06:54:41 PM
 #108


Has there been any actual proof of your attacks or are you just posting "successfull" messages and everyone is supposed to believe it ?
I'm with most people here. Attack a relatively active NXT clone or fork, show proof and then we can talk.

Bittrex confirmed his APEX attack.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=686403.msg10169983#msg10169983

Good to know...thanks for posting that.
Alright then...let's see how easy it is with a more active coin.

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January 17, 2015, 07:45:00 PM
 #109

Let's create a Hackcoin.

Everyone who is interested in POS security can download the wallet.
Everyone who is interested in hacking can play around with it.
The results could be useful for every honest coin.

We should never forget one thing: We are fighting against the system (banks and governments) - we are not fighting against decentralized digital currencies, am I right?

Some of us believe in what we are doing. The destruction of a random coin isn't the solution.

Cheers,
Ray

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January 17, 2015, 09:08:32 PM
Last edit: January 17, 2015, 09:19:07 PM by David Latapie
 #110

The real test for NXT will come if someone sets up a ponzi using NXT.
There are NXT ponzi on a regular basis.

We should never forget one thing: We are fighting against the system (banks and governments) - we are not fighting against decentralized digital currencies, am I right?

Exactly. United we stand, divided we fall - the coming rise of cryptofiat
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January 17, 2015, 09:42:03 PM
 #111


Perhaps you read something that I missed then. In his OP he states his reasoning is because of the "quantity" of coins, not the "quality." Personally I see no reason to attack coins, especially ones that meet his own agenda and not the consensus of the entire crypto community. History has shown that most all shit coins will die natural deaths anyway. Let the herd cull itself instead of having some wannabe savior of the crypto world launch attacks on whatever coins he chooses.  

The whole point of crypto-coins is that they are safe from doublespend. If someone shows that they aren't, then he is doing a service to the cryptocurrency industry.

I agree. It's a fascinating topic.






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January 17, 2015, 09:46:07 PM
 #112



The whole point of crypto-coins is that they are safe from doublespend. If someone shows that they aren't, then he is doing a service to the cryptocurrency industry.

Crypto is still in early days. We are building bridges, and it's better for someone to stress test the bridges before they are declared safe for the general population. If these bridges are unsafe, I want to know now (even if I lose some money).

You'll notice that many who are invested in PoS coins want attacks to be attempted. Better it happen out in the open now rather than in secret in the future.

Also, his attacks don't seem to be destroying coins, just showing they aren't safe. No reason coins couldn't shore up their defenses after the attack, and come back stronger.

I agree with what you are saying. However, from reading his posts it doesn't seem like he is actually trying to be helpful. It seems more like a "look what I can do" kind of thing. Did the Apexcoin community, whatever there is of it, ask him to attack them? He supposedly successfully attacked Apexcoin, and now the crypto world knows there is a vulnerability in POS. Is there really a need to continue any further attacks? Attack all the dead coins you want, but leave legitimate coins alone.

Because a guy does something for his own reasons don't necessarily make it without merit on its own. I agree with you on his apparent motives, but as a POS afficionado, I'd still encourage guys like this because if they can do it, it shows a vulnerability that needs fixing.

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January 17, 2015, 10:03:17 PM
 #113


Perhaps you read something that I missed then. In his OP he states his reasoning is because of the "quantity" of coins, not the "quality." Personally I see no reason to attack coins, especially ones that meet his own agenda and not the consensus of the entire crypto community. History has shown that most all shit coins will die natural deaths anyway. Let the herd cull itself instead of having some wannabe savior of the crypto world launch attacks on whatever coins he chooses.  

The whole point of crypto-coins is that they are safe from doublespend. If someone shows that they aren't, then he is doing a service to the cryptocurrency industry.

Crypto is still in early days. We are building bridges, and it's better for someone to stress test the bridges before they are declared safe for the general population. If these bridges are unsafe, I want to know now (even if I lose some money).

You'll notice that many who are invested in PoS coins want attacks to be attempted. Better it happen out in the open now rather than in secret in the future.

Also, his attacks don't seem to be destroying coins, just showing they aren't safe. No reason coins couldn't shore up their defenses after the attack, and come back stronger.

^^This, I was to lazy to type it earlier. Smiley

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January 17, 2015, 10:05:39 PM
 #114

cynicSOB, what would be the required countermeasure for a staking coin? decrease the maximum coin age?
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January 17, 2015, 10:07:42 PM
 #115

cynicSOB , will you be attacking the Nxt testnet?

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January 17, 2015, 10:22:14 PM
Last edit: January 17, 2015, 10:40:31 PM by Crestington
 #116

Let's create a Hackcoin.

Everyone who is interested in POS security can download the wallet.
Everyone who is interested in hacking can play around with it.
The results could be useful for every honest coin.

We should never forget one thing: We are fighting against the system (banks and governments) - we are not fighting against decentralized digital currencies, am I right?

Some of us believe in what we are doing. The destruction of a random coin isn't the solution.

Cheers,
Ray

I already have a POS only Coin running on a live network but not sure if I want to do this since it may mean it will break the Coin.






I have local connection problems need resolving but network running smoothly.

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January 17, 2015, 10:40:48 PM
 #117

Let's create a Hackcoin.

Everyone who is interested in POS security can download the wallet.
Everyone who is interested in hacking can play around with it.
The results could be useful for every honest coin.

We should never forget one thing: We are fighting against the system (banks and governments) - we are not fighting against decentralized digital currencies, am I right?

Some of us believe in what we are doing. The destruction of a random coin isn't the solution.

Cheers,
Ray

I already have a POS only Coin running on a live network but not sure if I want to do this.

I have local connection problems need resolving but network running smoothly.


Explain? Why not? Do ya think you're the next?

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January 17, 2015, 10:50:29 PM
 #118

Let's create a Hackcoin.

Everyone who is interested in POS security can download the wallet.
Everyone who is interested in hacking can play around with it.
The results could be useful for every honest coin.

We should never forget one thing: We are fighting against the system (banks and governments) - we are not fighting against decentralized digital currencies, am I right?

Some of us believe in what we are doing. The destruction of a random coin isn't the solution.

Cheers,
Ray

I already have a POS only Coin running on a live network but not sure if I want to do this.


Explain? Why not?

I have other stuff I am working on the protocol level and have limited amounts of time to work on it. I need to bugtest the IRC and adding in StakeforCharity and use of multiple wallets so if we break it then I have to go back and work on that as well.

Also, the specs are

2 minute block time
7/28 day min/max age
8% a year halving down to 4% every 64X difficulty
20 coin fee
Fees included in POS blocks and rewards a bonus 10% more fees received in the block
max amount from Stake is 4000 coins (plus fees on top)
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January 17, 2015, 10:55:11 PM
 #119

Other stuff than security?
Seems you are not behind your coin. Features are not necessary.

Safe your coin, then you'll have time for the toys.
Your post looks to me like advertising.

Cheers,
Ray

PS: Your sig... Paycoin. It says all.

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January 17, 2015, 11:04:08 PM
 #120

so something like mintcoin  20/40 min/max stake age would be better protection than the coins with super low min stake age and no max age?

edit: how does getting multiple pos blocks in a row enable someone to double spend? I'm not that tech minded and trying to understand Tongue

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