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Author Topic: Cleanup: I'll attack some coins - I owned APEXcoin for 90 blocks  (Read 16981 times)
cynicSOB
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December 18, 2014, 05:20:25 PM
Last edit: February 19, 2015, 05:43:46 PM by cynicSOB
 #1

lots of people complain about the quantity of coins and how the forum is flooded... some proposed ideas to clean it up....
I'll show you how it's done - I'll start attacking weak coins accelerating their death

just wait and see the results, I'll soon show the first victim. Let's start with PoS coins: some people think you need 51% of the supply but this is bs, you need only a very little % if you just want to do a single double spend.

the point of this thread is to see how people react to this: I won't steal from anyone, but some may lose "money".

Some questions:

1. is this a good idea?
2. would you donate so I can attack more POS coins? (maybe spare some coins you are bagholding)
3. would you pay to know the time of the attack and the victim in advance?
4. would you pay for "double spend as a service" (in this case you decide coin and the timing of the attack)?
5. is this legal?
6. do you think someone would pay to have me killed?

go!

update: apexcoin attack successful with 0,07% of available supply

For more secure coins: 1EqekC9YVhiWLYjG3mfKNJwrf5s3YS46WW
For the lulz:1EqekC9YVhiWLYjG3mfKNJwrf5s3YS46WW
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Daedelus
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December 18, 2014, 05:24:49 PM
 #2

Spoetnik..?
cynicSOB
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December 18, 2014, 05:46:15 PM
 #3

Spoetnik..?

no, I might even attack some of his coins...  who knows

For more secure coins: 1EqekC9YVhiWLYjG3mfKNJwrf5s3YS46WW
For the lulz:1EqekC9YVhiWLYjG3mfKNJwrf5s3YS46WW
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December 18, 2014, 06:00:12 PM
Last edit: December 18, 2014, 06:20:51 PM by Daedelus
 #4

Ok, I believe you..

As you are such a pro on POS and Nothing at Stake, you might be interested in this...


***
Some rigorous research into POS, which includes some findings relating to the so called "Nothing at Stake problem" has been published >>> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=897488.0

You can play with the models used to get the findings yourself. There is still some questions to answer (which will be done in subsequent papers) but the authors found "it's nearly impossible to attack a proof-of-stake currency with '1% stake even' as stated by Buterin".


Please comment in the thread >>> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=897488.0 to hopefully get a good quality discussion going for the benefit of the crypto scene, let's leave tribalism at the door.
***

I am sure everyone would like to hear your theories on what makes you say "some people think you need 51% of the supply but this is bs, you need only a very little % if you just want to do a single double spend." The two PHDs who wrote that research say it "nearly impossible" to do what you say is trivial...
cynicSOB
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December 18, 2014, 06:38:37 PM
 #5

I am sure everyone would like to hear your theories on what makes you say "some people think you need 51% of the supply but this is bs, you need only a very little % if you just want to do a single double spend." The two PHDs who wrote that research say it "nearly impossible" to do what you say is trivial...

no need for everyone to hear my theories... just watch my practice...

I'll tell you my theories anyway: the two PhDs who wrote that research have a clear nxt bias. Look at their hidden multibranch section: they say that they got 3/20 of 500 blocks with 10% stake. 3/20 of 500 is 75 blocks. They got 75 blocks! if people wait for 6 confirmations, I only need 6 blocks, not 75. So I can do with much less than 10% stake. Of course 10% stake means 10% of actively forging coins, which means 10% of 10% of supply. So, much less than 1% of supply to double spend. Of course that's still a few hundred BTCs for NXT so I'll start with a smaller coin.

I already bought a few coins... just wait until age is accumulated...

For more secure coins: 1EqekC9YVhiWLYjG3mfKNJwrf5s3YS46WW
For the lulz:1EqekC9YVhiWLYjG3mfKNJwrf5s3YS46WW
djm34
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December 18, 2014, 06:45:45 PM
 #6

lots of people complain about the quantity of coins and how the forum is flooded... some proposed ideas to clean it up....
I'll show you how it's done - I'll start attacking weak coins accelerating their death

just wait and see the results, I'll soon show the first victim. Let's start with PoS coins: some people think you need 51% of the supply but this is bs, you need only a very little % if you just want to do a single double spend.

the point of this thread is to see how people react to this: I won't steal from anyone, but some may lose "money".

Some questions:

1. is this a good idea?
2. would you donate so I can attack more POS coins? (maybe spare some coins you are bagholding)
3. would you pay to know the time of the attack and the victim in advance?
4. would you pay for "double spend as a service" (in this case you decide coin and the timing of the attack)?
5. is this legal?
6. do you think someone would pay to have me killed?

go!
1. yes kill them all
2. piss off  Grin (kill one first to show that you are able to do it, then we may talk, or you may talk to Bobsurplus... he is the kind of guy paying for things like that)
3 same as 2
4 same as 2 and 3
5. everything is legal in crypto  Grin killing useless coins is even more legal than the rest...

6. same as 2,3 and 4

now if you make a donation to me, I can change my ansers 2,3 and 4  Grin

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December 18, 2014, 06:51:22 PM
 #7

Spoetnik..?
Not enough swearwords.
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December 18, 2014, 07:02:47 PM
 #8

There was another thread like this months ago called Operation Shitcoin Cleanout and Clean Up Has Begun.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=522235.0
cynicSOB
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December 18, 2014, 07:26:46 PM
 #9

now if you make a donation to me, I can change my ansers 2,3 and 4  Grin

sorry, no donation for you Smiley
But I'll do one first as you suggest

There was another thread like this months ago called Operation Shitcoin Cleanout and Clean Up Has Begun.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=522235.0

but did they do anything or is it just talking?
I'm "investing" my own coins for the first attack

For more secure coins: 1EqekC9YVhiWLYjG3mfKNJwrf5s3YS46WW
For the lulz:1EqekC9YVhiWLYjG3mfKNJwrf5s3YS46WW
unent
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December 18, 2014, 07:43:21 PM
 #10



There was another thread like this months ago called Operation Shitcoin Cleanout and Clean Up Has Begun.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=522235.0

but did they do anything or is it just talking?
I'm "investing" my own coins for the first attack


I don't know if they did anything or not. I didn't read much of the thread.
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December 18, 2014, 09:17:24 PM
 #11

Yes, accumulating coin age in Nxt is a sure fire winner  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy let me know how it goes..
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December 18, 2014, 09:29:55 PM
 #12

POS 2.0 coins remove coinage from the equation, so now what?
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December 18, 2014, 11:10:27 PM
 #13

Don't be giving too many hints, D.  Grin

And to cynicSOB:

When you carry out your NXT attack, could you go to the trouble of documenting every step and the results ?
Even if you fail (  Wink ) there may be a small bounty for documenting the attack,  and if you succeed, there'll be a bigger bounty.
Good luck, mate, give 'em Hell.

Nulli Dei, nulli Reges, solum NXT
Love your money: www.nxt.org  www.ardorplatform.org
www.nxter.org  www.nxtfoundation.org
cynicSOB
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December 19, 2014, 12:06:38 AM
 #14

POS 2.0 coins remove coinage from the equation, so now what?

POS 2.0? is that a thing?

When you carry out your NXT attack, could you go to the trouble of documenting every step and the results ?
Even if you fail (  Wink ) there may be a small bounty for documenting the attack,  and if you succeed, there'll be a bigger bounty.
Good luck, mate, give 'em Hell.

Sure, thanks. But attacking nxt requires funding that I don't have. I still claim that it can be attacked with less than 10%
NXT may not have age since last transaction, but it has "age" since last block. It accumulates equally to all miners ("forgers"?), but I believe it can be gamed to obtain more than the fair share of probabilities of creating a fork.

For more secure coins: 1EqekC9YVhiWLYjG3mfKNJwrf5s3YS46WW
For the lulz:1EqekC9YVhiWLYjG3mfKNJwrf5s3YS46WW
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December 19, 2014, 01:56:10 AM
 #15

Try a test run on one of the straight NXT clones: NFD, NAS or NTX can all be had for 1-10 satoshi a pop, and would be a good playground.
Problem is that they don't have much network/tx activity, but that might make your job easier.

Nulli Dei, nulli Reges, solum NXT
Love your money: www.nxt.org  www.ardorplatform.org
www.nxter.org  www.nxtfoundation.org
cynicSOB
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December 19, 2014, 02:43:57 AM
 #16

Try a test run on one of the straight NXT clones: NFD, NAS or NTX can all be had for 1-10 satoshi a pop, and would be a good playground.
Problem is that they don't have much network/tx activity, but that might make your job easier.

interesting! I'll start with POS based on PPC and then do one of those. Or maybe POW, renting hashrate has become cheap and some coins are easy targets. But I'll certainly take a look at those.

For more secure coins: 1EqekC9YVhiWLYjG3mfKNJwrf5s3YS46WW
For the lulz:1EqekC9YVhiWLYjG3mfKNJwrf5s3YS46WW
claycoins
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December 19, 2014, 09:15:27 AM
 #17

keep us updated on your progress, will be interesting.

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December 19, 2014, 10:11:57 AM
 #18

You will? why you didnt?

Bismuth - New Language, Interpretation Engines, Free Set of DAPPs https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1896497
Bitrated user: HCLivess.
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December 19, 2014, 11:12:03 AM
 #19

6. do you think someone would pay to have me killed?
go!

If you are worried about such thing, how about
giving out your technique here so anyone can try and see
if it works.

That would be fair acceleration of coin evolution, not just
playing BCX Jr.

“God does not play dice"
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December 19, 2014, 11:45:18 AM
 #20

Let's start with PoS coins

Yes! Please start with Nxt!

You should have a look at https://github.com/ConsensusResearch/articles-papers/blob/master/multistrategy/multistrategy.pdf before you try  Wink

Unfortunately you will just push the price to epic heights when buying your "very little %" of coin supply.

If you then fail at a successful attack (which is very probable), congratulations, you just made all Nxters rich.
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