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Author Topic: Independent scam investigations  (Read 4106 times)
Raoul Duke
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July 03, 2012, 02:30:53 PM
 #21

We definitely are having issues with scammer cases at the moment. There's several that need to be looked into, that can't be determined just from reading a thread or two. Maged was the only mod really doing them, now that he's not there's nobody doing it. It's a lot of time and effort to ask someone to do for free. It might be a decent business idea. Insurance/collection agency type thing, where if you pass certain standards when performing a trade (getting enough info/using escrow/whatever) then they will guarantee to buy your debt for a percentage fee and collect themselves/pursue scammer tag. If appropriate precautions are taken a scammer tag should be a certainty in the majority of cases.  

And that's not theymos being an ass, he's always been short and to the point. It helps if you think of him as a robot. An anarchist robot.  Wink

And yeah bans for scammers ain't gonna happen, don't even ask. Besides, banning them would just ensure they'll never pay their debts.

That surely explains the tone of PM's I got from him months ago. I took it personally, but let it pass. Thanks for bringing that to my attention, BadBear. I have great respect for theymos, and all the ribbing I do at his expense is just that--ribbing/joking.

~Bruno~


See, that's the problem most people have. They tend to hear tone in written words, where there is simply no tone, just a message being passed.

I'm accused of being an asshole at least 2 times every day because of that same thing.
I'm hoping that people will stop reading emotions on written words when there are none. But I can really just hope, I know it won't happen anytime soon.

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July 03, 2012, 02:48:23 PM
 #22

Okay, I've thrown a very basic website together, basically just a place to explain what we do and to list known scammers, accept donations and with a contact page. Anyone other than Maged interested in participating?

Still around.
Raoul Duke
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July 03, 2012, 02:49:19 PM
 #23

Okay, I've thrown a very basic website together, basically just a place to explain what we do and to list known scammers, accept donations and with a contact page. Anyone other than Maged interested in participating?

Count me in, edd.

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July 03, 2012, 04:33:13 PM
 #24

Okay, I've thrown a very basic website together, basically just a place to explain what we do and to list known scammers, accept donations and with a contact page. Anyone other than Maged interested in participating?
And me.

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July 04, 2012, 04:51:55 PM
 #25

Okay, I've thrown a very basic website together, basically just a place to explain what we do and to list known scammers, accept donations and with a contact page. Anyone other than Maged interested in participating?

I'd be willing to help out as well.

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July 04, 2012, 05:35:39 PM
 #26

I be willing to help if it is needed

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July 04, 2012, 05:45:26 PM
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See, that's the problem most people have. They tend to hear tone in written words, where there is simply no tone, just a message being passed.

I'm accused of being an asshole at least 2 times every day because of that same thing.
I'm hoping that people will stop reading emotions on written words when there are none. But I can really just hope, I know it won't happen anytime soon.

This is really really freaky and ironic at the same time. You nailed it on the head perfectly with this explanation that I would have never sought to put it in terms like how you did, so many really smart people here, no doubt, man. This just happened to me yesterday but everything was good after what I sent was fully read.

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July 04, 2012, 08:28:57 PM
 #28

Okay, I've thrown a very basic website together, basically just a place to explain what we do and to list known scammers, accept donations and with a contact page. Anyone other than Maged interested in participating?

Can scammers like me join too ?

You know the saying "it takes one to know one" Cheesy
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July 04, 2012, 11:50:10 PM
 #29

Okay, I've thrown a very basic website together, basically just a place to explain what we do and to list known scammers, accept donations and with a contact page. Anyone other than Maged interested in participating?

Can scammers like me join too ?

You know the saying "it takes one to know one" Cheesy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

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Maged
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July 05, 2012, 08:00:16 AM
 #30

Okay, I've thrown a very basic website together, basically just a place to explain what we do and to list known scammers, accept donations and with a contact page. Anyone other than Maged interested in participating?

Can scammers like me join too ?

You know the saying "it takes one to know one" Cheesy
Based on your personality, you might be too impulsive for scammer investigations. However, your personality is such that I believe that it may be possible for you to conduct a good investigation after some training.

There are two key components needed by scam investigators:
1) The ability to (mostly) disregard emotions and prejudice. Usually this means clear logical thinking, but that's not completely necessary.
2) You must be a trusted member of the community.

bulanula, you might make a good investigator. All you would have to do is get rid of the scammer tag and I believe that at least point 2 would apply. Only you would know about point 1, but I think you can do it.

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July 05, 2012, 08:22:33 AM
 #31

Im keen to get involved if the man hours dont kill me Wink

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bulanula
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July 05, 2012, 07:48:49 PM
 #32

Okay, I've thrown a very basic website together, basically just a place to explain what we do and to list known scammers, accept donations and with a contact page. Anyone other than Maged interested in participating?

Can scammers like me join too ?

You know the saying "it takes one to know one" Cheesy
Based on your personality, you might be too impulsive for scammer investigations. However, your personality is such that I believe that it may be possible for you to conduct a good investigation after some training.

There are two key components needed by scam investigators:
1) The ability to (mostly) disregard emotions and prejudice. Usually this means clear logical thinking, but that's not completely necessary.
2) You must be a trusted member of the community.

bulanula, you might make a good investigator. All you would have to do is get rid of the scammer tag and I believe that at least point 2 would apply. Only you would know about point 1, but I think you can do it.

Don't worry, the meds can always take care of number 1 Cheesy

Overdose and the problem is gone Wink

Joking aside, I am not on any meds Smiley I might need to work on my character though ...
edd
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July 05, 2012, 10:39:00 PM
 #33

In order to provide a consistent and professional service to the bitcointalk community, we should probably come up with a formal application and training process for potential investigators. This would provide the public with some assurance that personal vendettas are unlikely to gain any traction, and Standard Operating Procedures would make it easier for the original investigator to pass along a job to someone else if it he or she were unable to continue for whatever reason.

Still around.
repentance
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July 07, 2012, 04:09:26 AM
 #34

In order to provide a consistent and professional service to the bitcointalk community, we should probably come up with a formal application and training process for potential investigators. This would provide the public with some assurance that personal vendettas are unlikely to gain any traction, and Standard Operating Procedures would make it easier for the original investigator to pass along a job to someone else if it he or she were unable to continue for whatever reason.

The minute you start representing this in terms of some kind of formal, professional or accredited service, you're going to run into licensing requirements in many jurisdictions.

There's also the question of the purpose of these investigations.  Labelling someone a scammer after the fact has limited value.  It might matter to people who want to remain part of this community, but it's not going to matter a damn to those who are going to cut and run from Bitcoin unless the information obtained leads to legal consequences or finds its way to potential victims of their next venture.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
sadpandatech
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July 07, 2012, 04:25:35 AM
 #35

I'd like to see us be able to label those who we can prove 'intent to scam' or defraud as well.

add my name to the list.

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edd
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July 07, 2012, 08:04:07 AM
 #36

In order to provide a consistent and professional service to the bitcointalk community, we should probably come up with a formal application and training process for potential investigators. This would provide the public with some assurance that personal vendettas are unlikely to gain any traction, and Standard Operating Procedures would make it easier for the original investigator to pass along a job to someone else if it he or she were unable to continue for whatever reason.

The minute you start representing this in terms of some kind of formal, professional or accredited service, you're going to run into licensing requirements in many jurisdictions.

There's also the question of the purpose of these investigations.  Labelling someone a scammer after the fact has limited value.  It might matter to people who want to remain part of this community, but it's not going to matter a damn to those who are going to cut and run from Bitcoin unless the information obtained leads to legal consequences or finds its way to potential victims of their next venture.

Perhaps I should have used the word "standardized" instead of "formal."

I also fail to see why presenting evidence solely for the purpose of applying a scammer tag for the bitcointalk.org forum would require any licensing in any jurisdiction.

Still around.
Raize
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July 10, 2012, 05:15:37 AM
 #37

So is this still happening or what? I'm still definitely interested in helping out. I won't take BTC as payment, but I can't guarantee I can drop everything to process a request.

This is just compiling information and then posting it for the admins/mods to review right? No funny business? I imagine a bunch of us can help, pro bono or not.

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Maged
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July 10, 2012, 08:02:37 AM
 #38

So is this still happening or what? I'm still definitely interested in helping out. I won't take BTC as payment, but I can't guarantee I can drop everything to process a request.
I believe so? I think edd is throwing something together website/donation wise, but I'm available to train you guys whenever. And I would prefer to actually train you, since the process is pretty involved.

This is just compiling information and then posting it for the admins/mods to review right? No funny business? I imagine a bunch of us can help, pro bono or not.
Yup! If any of you find a case you'd like to handle, let me know! You can start compiling the information right away, even though I'll send you the process information after I hear from you. For your first case, I'd like it if the report is submitted to me, first, before you send it to theymos. I don't want to trouble him with training a bunch of you guys, especially since you might get the wrong impression of him when he tells you what you need to fix (I've heard complaints that he sounds a little robotic...).

PatrickHarnett
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July 10, 2012, 08:38:14 AM
 #39

(swear word)

Ignoring all the bullshit above, I have been helped by a couple of forum members chasing scammers and otherwise non-paying assholes (and I've making payment where it's due).  A couple of those people would be useful to employ more regularly.  From a lender's perspective, having better access to enforcement and follow up would be useful.
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July 10, 2012, 10:51:55 AM
 #40

(swear word)

Ignoring all the bullshit above, I have been helped by a couple of forum members chasing scammers and otherwise non-paying assholes (and I've making payment where it's due).  A couple of those people would be useful to employ more regularly.  From a lender's perspective, having better access to enforcement and follow up would be useful.
Perhaps this could help me as a lender after having lent to a client who didn't pay back (didn't realize at the time).

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