Independent scam investigations

[Maged]

The site just needs some final touches. This weekend was my wedding anniversary so I was away from a computer. I'm at my "day job" right now but should have something to show this evening.

Oh, neat!

If anyone wants to get their feet wet, I have a scam report fresh off of the queue:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83502.0

Start off by contacting all of the parties involved and gathering as much information as you can. I'll help you work through your first investigation, so let me know any questions you have. Also, be sure to "claim" the investigation by posting in the thread saying that you'll look into it or something.

I'll approve of any of the following people taking this up:
Raize, Psy, John, Clipse, sadpandatech

I'm not too sure about:
gweedo, bulanula

If you're staff here and haven't done an investigation before, I'd be happy to take you on as well. If you have done an investigation, you can just take this if you want.

If you're not on the above list, that just means that I wasn't aware that you had an interest. Feel free to let me know if you still want to join.

While anybody really can do this job, I made this list to show who I believe can be trusted with private information (feel free to reference this post if you are listed and someone is wary about sending you the information) and also who I think is likely to be able to remain neutral in an investigation.

[sadpandatech]

The site just needs some final touches. This weekend was my wedding anniversary so I was away from a computer. I'm at my "day job" right now but should have something to show this evening.

Oh, neat!

If anyone wants to get their feet wet, I have a scam report fresh off of the queue:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83502.0

Start off by contacting all of the parties involved and gathering as much information as you can. I'll help you work through your first investigation, so let me know any questions you have. Also, be sure to "claim" the investigation by posting in the thread saying that you'll look into it or something.

gotcha and on it. Will contact you as soon as I get everything neatened up.

[Maged]

gotcha and on it. Will contact you as soon as I get everything neatened up.

Awesome

[sadpandatech]

gotcha and on it. Will contact you as soon as I get everything neatened up.

Awesome

done and filing report now.

[Clipse]

Ill grab the next one, pretty sure this one is in capable hands with panda.

Did keep an active on this thread since posting previously.

[Maged]

Ill grab the next one, pretty sure this one is in capable hands with panda.

Did keep an active on this thread since posting previously.

Just so everyone knows, Clipse is officially handling the Wnd case.

Thanks!

[guruvan]

I don't ever want there to be innocent people falsely marked as scammers, so I require quite a bit of proof before scammer-tagging anyone. Sometimes there are very clear-cut cases that don't require any additional proof, but often some investigation is required to collect more proof. Maged has been doing a lot of this investigation work (thanks!), but I don't consider investigating these cases to be a function of the board. I don't expect moderators to spend any time investigating scam cases.

Now Maged is busy, and people seeking to have someone scammer-tagged are finding that all of the moderators are ignoring them. What such people should do is hire a non-moderator to collect the evidence. Moderators have no advantage in these investigations over non-moderators, since only admins have IP logs, access to PMs, etc.

Scam investigators need to convince me that someone is almost certainly a scammer. This is done by:
- Finding conclusive evidence that the suspect has scammed someone.
- Compiling all of the evidence into a short report (not strewn across a huge thread).
- Posting all of the evidence in a new thread in "Trading discussion".
- After at least a few days of public discussion, send me the link to the thread with the evidence.

If you think I might have evidence that would prove that someone is guilty (PMs, IP logs, etc.), compile the evidence you do have to show "probable cause" and ask me specific questions that will clearly help the case when answered. I will not actually give you IP addresses or PMs -- I check them myself and give you answers based on the info.

I might be willing to give some free forum advertising to a reputable person/company specializing in scam investigations.

So, by this I'm to understand that you will read private messages with probable cause? While I respect your position (and think highly of how you conduct yourself with your responsibilites), I'm definitely not ok with this.

I am grateful it is possible to ignore all PMs. Thanks for that!

 

[rjk]

So, by this I'm to understand that you will read private messages with probable cause? While I respect your position (and think highly of how you conduct yourself with your responsibilites), I'm definitely not ok with this.

Whoops, guruvan is about to get busted for trading cp via the forum PM system, just kidding.

No actual shit, dummy, why wouldn't an administrator have access to PMs? Even if you designed a system that had no easy GUI to do it, you could still read them with a proper commandline SQL query, it just would be a little more difficult. I can't believe you would think otherwise.

[sadpandatech]

So, by this I'm to understand that you will read private messages with probable cause? While I respect your position (and think highly of how you conduct yourself with your responsibilites), I'm definitely not ok with this.

I am grateful it is possible to ignore all PMs. Thanks for that!

Everyone deserves their privacy and this in no way will take away from that. By this, you should understand that unless there is already very solid proof that such person was a scammer and one small piece of puzzle was missing that would be in a PM then NO PM's will be read.  And none of said PM's are shared with any independent person and likely not even with mods.

Example;
*Maged; "Theymos, I think this person is scamming, can I see their PMs?"

*Theymos; "No"  (he doens't like making long, winded replies. ;p

cheers

[Maged]

It is my understanding that theymos won't read any PM unless he already has a copy of the PM that was revealed by one of the parties involved. All he does is verify that the copy of the PM wasn't modified.

This is the reason why we always have to ask someone involved for a copy of all correspondence when we get a scam report.

If you're worried about him snooping on your PMs, though, feel free to GPG encrypt your communications or use an external messaging system. That being said, I don't know how theymos would have the time to randomly read a bunch of people's PMs, anyway.

[guruvan]

So, by this I'm to understand that you will read private messages with probable cause? While I respect your position (and think highly of how you conduct yourself with your responsibilites), I'm definitely not ok with this.

Whoops, guruvan is about to get busted for trading cp via the forum PM system, just kidding.

No actual shit, dummy, why wouldn't an administrator have access to PMs? Even if you designed a system that had no easy GUI to do it, you could still read them with a proper commandline SQL query, it just would be a little more difficult. I can't believe you would think otherwise.

Again, rjk, you show your igrnorance. Just because an admin CAN access data doesn't mean he would, should, or will.  I have administrated more than my fair share of user data over the years, and it's a simple rule in my book before I look through anyone's personal data I have special access to: legally binding order - nothing short. I will not violate people's private communications for any reason. It is wrong, and troublesome for all parties involved.

I appreciate the CP comment, too. Nice way to slyly associate that - I'm sure your just kidding matters. I see why you're well ignored. I will do that from now on.

It is my understanding that theymos won't read any PM unless he already has a copy of the PM that was revealed by one of the parties involved. All he does is verify that the copy of the PM wasn't modified.

This is the reason why we always have to ask someone involved for a copy of all correspondence when we get a scam report.

If you're worried about him snooping on your PMs, though, feel free to GPG encrypt your communications or use an external messaging system. That being said, I don't know how theymos would have the time to randomly read a bunch of people's PMs, anyway.

Thank you for clarifying the actual use of that. That is considerably better than just looking through pms for evidence in the case of probable cause.

In fact, I hold most of you (in particular, both you, Maged, and theymos) in pretty high regard - so I could hardly imagine you snooping without cause, or wnating to, even if you'd have the luxury of time.

(forum PMs are still far too difficult to use, so I'm still glad this has found me a way to disable them completely)

My apologies for any perceived implication that you guys would do anything nefarious. This wasn't my intent. I had been operating under the general assumptions I make as a sysadmin, and was surprised that your rules are slightly different than I would have.

[theymos]

So, by this I'm to understand that you will read private messages with probable cause? While I respect your position (and think highly of how you conduct yourself with your responsibilites), I'm definitely not ok with this.

As Maged mentioned, I usually only confirm that a reported PM is accurate. Sometimes I read all of the PMs between the potential scammer and the victim, with the victim's permission. There have been only a few cases where I've read all of a potential scammer's PMs, and they all turned out to be guilty in the end. I don't do it lightly. I never read random PMs; I haven't even read any of Satoshi's PMs, which would undoubtedly be very interesting.

No actual shit, dummy, why wouldn't an administrator have access to PMs? Even if you designed a system that had no easy GUI to do it, you could still read them with a proper commandline SQL query, it just would be a little more difficult. I can't believe you would think otherwise.

It is necessary to use SQL to read them. SMF doesn't have an interface for it.

[rjk]

Again, rjk, you show your igrnorance. Just because an admin CAN access data doesn't mean he would, should, or will.  I have administrated more than my fair share of user data over the years, and it's a simple rule in my book before I look through anyone's personal data I have special access to: legally binding order - nothing short. I will not violate people's private communications for any reason. It is wrong, and troublesome for all parties involved.

I appreciate the CP comment, too. Nice way to slyly associate that - I'm sure your just kidding matters. I see why you're well ignored. I will do that from now on.

Again, you show your inability to comprehend what I wrote. I never said he would, should, or will. I said that it is possible, and could be done.
Less than 3 ignores. Whee. I'm so hurt. (HINT: That was sarcsam, IDGAF)

[Raize]

I'm still interested in a site or something where we can find out what threads/users need research done on them. I'd like to help out.

[sadpandatech]

I'm still interested in a site or something where we can find out what threads/users need research done on them. I'd like to help out.

I agree, even if it was only a private ftp repository where we have a few seperate directories for 'new investigations', 'finished investogations', and each investigation having its own subfolders in each. Main directory should have a short roster and list of investigations and indicate their status.

[Maged]

I'm still interested in a site or something where we can find out what threads/users need research done on them. I'd like to help out.

I agree, even if it was only a private ftp repository where we have a few seperate directories for 'new investigations', 'finished investogations', and each investigation having its own subfolders in each. Main directory should have a short roster and list of investigations and indicate their status.

Sounds like a forum would work well for this. Oh theymos!...