Look at a pirate, eye to eye if you dare.

[Vladimir]

Just because I'm affiliated with a PPT doesn't mean I know for certain Pirate is or isn't legit.  All it means is I got in before everyone else and have had access to rates that people that got in later didn't have access to.  Your logic skills sux0rz.

LOL did imsaguy just admit he was being paid extra, and had no knowledge of BS&T legitimacy? Do any of you remember just who was extremely intent on defending BS&T in the flamewar?

This thread is becoming priceless.

It's like saying "I am getting money from that unknown guy and I help to promote his ponzi, but I am not guilty on charges of fraud because I do not even know him and not affiliated with him". Nice try.

Get damn legal advise already and I promise you the first thing that will be advised to you is to shut up.

P.S. It is not my mission to please every idiot on the planet. Just saying as it is whether you like it or not.

[PatrickHarnett]

- PatrickHarnett (runs PiratePassThrough Bond or is affiliated with one)

Proudly offering one of the worst pass-though schemes via Starfish - i.e. use someone else.
Shareholder in the original PPT.x GLBSE based rotating bond program.

And I chose not to fly 20-ish hours to Vegas in economy - my commitments to my day job kept me in NZ.

[imsaguy]

P.S. It is not my mission to please every idiot on the planet. Just saying as it is whether you like it or not.

LOL. Just saying it is as it is?  Where's your documented proof its a ponzi again?  Oh right, a couple of hunches.  Oops, wrong V-.

[Maged]

LOL did imsaguy just admit he was being paid extra, and had no knowledge of BS&T legitimacy? Do any of you remember just who was extremely intent on defending BS&T in the flamewar?

Seriously, stop trying to see things that aren't there. You're just making everyone who's concerned about Pirate look foolish.

And Vladimir used to be so level headed.  This sure has got his panties in a bunch.

He is level headed. You should stop and think about how all of this appears to people on the outside that aren't blinded by Pirate Greed.

[notme]

And Vladimir used to be so level headed.  This sure has got his panties in a bunch.

Since when? Don't you remember him ranting off and posting he was never going to post here again. I refuse to unignore him to see what he said but it must have been good. LOL

Since long ago, before the pirate FUD storm started.

[notme]

LOL did imsaguy just admit he was being paid extra, and had no knowledge of BS&T legitimacy? Do any of you remember just who was extremely intent on defending BS&T in the flamewar?

Seriously, stop trying to see things that aren't there. You're just making everyone who's concerned about Pirate look foolish.

Yup.

And Vladimir used to be so level headed.  This sure has got his panties in a bunch.

He is level headed. You should stop and think about how all of this appears to people on the outside that aren't blinded by Pirate Greed.

Looks mostly the same as it did when I first invested many months ago.  Now the interest rates are lower, payouts are less often, and it's still a great return.  Nobody expects this to last forever and pirateat40 has demonstrated several times he will adjust his interest rate down as his profit margins are squeezed by competition.  I have had several private conversations with pirate and I am fairly confident of at least two legitimate revenue streams he has, and I suspect two others.  None are illegal as far as I know, and despite weeks of screaming, nobody has been able to provide one scrap of evidence to the contrary.  I will not provide more information about what I believe he is doing other than the obvious (gpumax) because competition will reduce his profits and thus my payouts.

[imsaguy]

Looks mostly the same as it did when I first invested many months ago.  Now the interest rates are lower, payouts are less often, and it's still a great return.  Nobody expects this to last forever and pirateat40 has demonstrated several times he will adjust his interest rate down as his profit margins are squeezed by competition.  I have had several private conversations with pirate and I am fairly confident of at least two legitimate revenue streams he has, and I suspect two others.  None are illegal as far as I know, and despite weeks of screaming, nobody has been able to provide one scrap of evidence to the contrary.  I will not provide more information about what I believe he is doing other than the obvious (gpumax) because competition will reduce his profits and thus my payouts.

I guess that means you've been paid off

[Sukrim]

This is getting boring with people posting cryptic messages and continuing with "funny" (maybe it is funny to some people?) posts but not even a single picture or a PGP signed message "I met with pirateat40 face to face in Vegas" yet.

Playing it cool might be nice for some high schoolers, but this is something that not a lot of people can afford (going to Vegas on a certain date and time) and the ones there don't seem to be helpful at all. On one hand very often I read that it's oh-so-important to be serious and take care how your online persona is received, on the other hand I only need to take a look at this thread to see less than a handful of people whom I would trust to give my money. After 9(!) pages!

Seriously, if this is the fabulous "Bitcoin community", I'm happy that I managed so far to convince a lot of people to stay away and wait it out until some real stuff emerges from there.

About pirate's business: At least a very large piece of it should be documented forever in the block chain anyways, so just start writing analysis programs and scrapers instead of again warning everyone that 7% a week is just not sustainable.

[wachtwoord]

LOL did imsaguy just admit he was being paid extra, and had no knowledge of BS&T legitimacy? Do any of you remember just who was extremely intent on defending BS&T in the flamewar?

Seriously, stop trying to see things that aren't there. You're just making everyone who's concerned about Pirate look foolish.

Yup.

And Vladimir used to be so level headed.  This sure has got his panties in a bunch.

He is level headed. You should stop and think about how all of this appears to people on the outside that aren't blinded by Pirate Greed.

Looks mostly the same as it did when I first invested many months ago.  Now the interest rates are lower, payouts are less often, and it's still a great return.  Nobody expects this to last forever and pirateat40 has demonstrated several times he will adjust his interest rate down as his profit margins are squeezed by competition.  I have had several private conversations with pirate and I am fairly confident of at least two legitimate revenue streams he has, and I suspect two others.  None are illegal as far as I know, and despite weeks of screaming, nobody has been able to provide one scrap of evidence to the contrary.  I will not provide more information about what I believe he is doing other than the obvious (gpumax) because competition will reduce his profits and thus my payouts.

Hey everyone knows I trust the business enough to have invested. However, please stop saying Pirate is reducing interest rates when he clearly isn't (he still offers the same percentages to trust accounts, which means in the end the majority of the market will invest through these, causing Pirate to pay the same rates as he did before) it makes you look like you're covering something up ....

[ribuck]

Notice how, in the original post, pirate said "Contact me for details if you're interested". So unless anyone contacted him for details, they're not going to meet him, and pirate can claim to have fulfilled his part of this trollpromise.

Nor did pirate say that he was attending DefCon, he just said he was going to Vegas. For all we know, he may be putting all the BS&T funds on red at the roulette table in a desperate attempt to keep his scheme afloat.

In that case, pirate may be lucky and can prolong his scheme long enough to win his bet with vandroiy.

Or, if pirate loses at the roulette table, he may default on the coming interest payment. The terms of his bet with vandroiy allow for a two-week delay after a missed payment. So by 14 August, the gig is up. Just like pirate already hinted.

(I'm not invested with pirate; I'm just here to enjoy the show)

[Vandroiy]

Seriously, stop trying to see things that aren't there. You're just making everyone who's concerned about Pirate look foolish.

Okay. I made the error of overlooking that "being in early" means controlling a much larger amount of money, thus increasing the rate. You're making it sound as if it's okay to just accept that. "Well, there's a money source, so I'm taking some. No, I don't know what it is, but I tell people to stop their stupid FUD about it while it's still flowing."

The point I was trying to make is not how this works exactly. It's the combination of supporting something and profiting from it. If it is foolish to demand that people retain some ethics, then name me a fool.

And I'm not concerned about Pirate here. He is the trigger, not the cause of the problem.



I guess I'm a fool to care. Let's get back on topic and figure out whether Pirate appeared in Las Vegas. Is anyone other than Gigavps confirming his presence, in posts that haven't vanished yet?

[iCEBREAKER]

And Vladimir used to be so level headed.  This sure has got his panties in a bunch.

He's not the only one that's started living full time in BTC Fantasy Land.

You can tell which ones have gone off the deep end easily.  They're the ones who actually believe that the Police Cops are going to ring up Interpol's cybercrime unit for the sake of tracking down their stolen/scammed BTC.

As if any law enforcement agency in the world has a Cryptocoin Recovery Division, or cares in the least about their Magic Internet Money.

They've completely lost it ('it' being contact with consensus reality).   

[rjk]

And Vladimir used to be so level headed.  This sure has got his panties in a bunch.

He's not the only one that's started living full time in BTC Fantasy Land.

You can tell which ones have gone off the deep end easily.  They're the ones who actually believe that the Police Cops are going to ring up Interpol's cybercrime unit for the sake of tracking down their stolen/scammed BTC.

As if any law enforcement agency in the world has a Cryptocoin Recovery Division, or cares in the least about their Magic Internet Money.

They've completely lost it ('it' being contact with consensus reality).  

Oh really? http://www.talentzoo.com/digital-pivot/blog_news.php?articleID=6221

The argument for punishment is that many of these games take years to master to the point where the online character begins to effectively navigate through the virtual world. The players invest their time, effort, and money into building their online personages, so many courts are looking at the thefts in much the same way they would look at the theft of any other valuable possession. In 2008, a group of boys in the Netherlands attacked and threatened a RuneScape player, so that he would turn over a chain and amulet. The Dutch court set a precedent in the case, stating that virtual goods are the same as real goods, and the boys were convicted of theft.

In general, courts globally seem to be treating virtual crime just as they would any real-world crime: If a person is found guilty of stealing, killing, ruining, or otherwise destroying an online-gaming experience for a person or group of persons, the penalties enacted will be similar to punishment of real-world crime, with noted exceptions. For example, killing an avatar will not be met with a life sentence in prison. However, the monetary loss sustained by the player will be comparable to real-world money loss, and criminals will end up with fines, probation, or even jail.

The lesson here: If you can't to the time, then don't commit cyber-crime.

[imsaguy]

Oh really? http://www.talentzoo.com/digital-pivot/blog_news.php?articleID=6221

The argument for punishment is that many of these games take years to master to the point where the online character begins to effectively navigate through the virtual world. The players invest their time, effort, and money into building their online personages, so many courts are looking at the thefts in much the same way they would look at the theft of any other valuable possession. In 2008, a group of boys in the Netherlands attacked and threatened a RuneScape player, so that he would turn over a chain and amulet. The Dutch court set a precedent in the case, stating that virtual goods are the same as real goods, and the boys were convicted of theft.

In general, courts globally seem to be treating virtual crime just as they would any real-world crime: If a person is found guilty of stealing, killing, ruining, or otherwise destroying an online-gaming experience for a person or group of persons, the penalties enacted will be similar to punishment of real-world crime, with noted exceptions. For example, killing an avatar will not be met with a life sentence in prison. However, the monetary loss sustained by the player will be comparable to real-world money loss, and criminals will end up with fines, probation, or even jail.

The lesson here: If you can't to the time, then don't commit cyber-crime.

Now you need to quote the US Case Law.

[rjk]

Now you need to quote the US Case Law.

That was the first handy link, I don't have time to chase down all the others.

[notme]

LOL did imsaguy just admit he was being paid extra, and had no knowledge of BS&T legitimacy? Do any of you remember just who was extremely intent on defending BS&T in the flamewar?

Seriously, stop trying to see things that aren't there. You're just making everyone who's concerned about Pirate look foolish.

Yup.

And Vladimir used to be so level headed.  This sure has got his panties in a bunch.

He is level headed. You should stop and think about how all of this appears to people on the outside that aren't blinded by Pirate Greed.

Looks mostly the same as it did when I first invested many months ago.  Now the interest rates are lower, payouts are less often, and it's still a great return.  Nobody expects this to last forever and pirateat40 has demonstrated several times he will adjust his interest rate down as his profit margins are squeezed by competition.  I have had several private conversations with pirate and I am fairly confident of at least two legitimate revenue streams he has, and I suspect two others.  None are illegal as far as I know, and despite weeks of screaming, nobody has been able to provide one scrap of evidence to the contrary.  I will not provide more information about what I believe he is doing other than the obvious (gpumax) because competition will reduce his profits and thus my payouts.

Hey everyone knows I trust the business enough to have invested. However, please stop saying Pirate is reducing interest rates when he clearly isn't (he still offers the same percentages to trust accounts, which means in the end the majority of the market will invest through these, causing Pirate to pay the same rates as he did before) it makes you look like you're covering something up ....

I'm not in the top tier, but I prefer to deal with pirate directly.  Using "the market" adds additional risk.  Pirate's stated average interest is far below top tier.

[wachtwoord]

Okay, then I just have to say I severely doubt that is where the market will find an equilibrium. I will confide that markets are known to do crazy things so me being wrong has a non-zero chance.

[iCEBREAKER]

Oh really? http://www.talentzoo.com/digital-pivot/blog_news.php?articleID=6221

In general, courts globally seem to be treating virtual crime just as they would any real-world crime: If a person is found guilty of stealing, killing, ruining, or otherwise destroying an online-gaming experience for a person or group of persons, the penalties enacted will be similar to punishment of real-world crime, with noted exceptions. For example, killing an avatar will not be met with a life sentence in prison. However, the monetary loss sustained by the player will be comparable to real-world money loss, and criminals will end up with fines, probation, or even jail.

Hedge #1 "In general"
Hedge #2 "seem to be"

Two hedges for one sentence = weak sauce.

Then there's the part you didn't quote:

"Complaints about people’s identities and possessions being stolen within a game have been made before," said Rob Fahey, games analyst and former editor of gamesindustry.biz. "But because it exists only in a virtual world it is hard to say whether they are of any real value in the real world.

The resale of characters and their possessions is often against the rules set down by the makers of the games, but there are no criminal laws banning it.

tl;dr
U FAIL

[rjk]

Oh really? http://www.talentzoo.com/digital-pivot/blog_news.php?articleID=6221

In general, courts globally seem to be treating virtual crime just as they would any real-world crime: If a person is found guilty of stealing, killing, ruining, or otherwise destroying an online-gaming experience for a person or group of persons, the penalties enacted will be similar to punishment of real-world crime, with noted exceptions. For example, killing an avatar will not be met with a life sentence in prison. However, the monetary loss sustained by the player will be comparable to real-world money loss, and criminals will end up with fines, probation, or even jail.

Hedge #1 "In general"
Hedge #2 "seem to be"

Two hedges for one sentence = weak sauce.

Then there's the part you didn't quote:

"Complaints about people’s identities and possessions being stolen within a game have been made before," said Rob Fahey, games analyst and former editor of gamesindustry.biz. "But because it exists only in a virtual world it is hard to say whether they are of any real value in the real world.

The resale of characters and their possessions is often against the rules set down by the makers of the games, but there are no criminal laws banning it.

tl;dr
U FAIL

Right, so you are ignoring the actual case law rulings (granted, Dutch law, but so what), and instead pointing out other parts of the article that don't have any bearing on Bitcoin outside of games. I would say you are the one that is failing here.

[Frankie]

And Vladimir used to be so level headed.  This sure has got his panties in a bunch.

He's not the only one that's started living full time in BTC Fantasy Land.

You can tell which ones have gone off the deep end easily.  They're the ones who actually believe that the Police Cops are going to ring up Interpol's cybercrime unit for the sake of tracking down their stolen/scammed BTC.

As if any law enforcement agency in the world has a Cryptocoin Recovery Division, or cares in the least about their Magic Internet Money.

They've completely lost it ('it' being contact with consensus reality).   

I agree that it's unlikely Pirate (let alone his enablers and promoters) go to jail over this, but it's not because of the currency. Many actionable Ponzi schemes are denominated in irreversible online currencies like Liberty Reserve, and if there was enough loss in this scheme, I'm sure it would land on radars.

Although ~$1 million is a significant proportion of the bitcoin economy, it's not really much for a Ponzi scheme. http://www.ponzitracker.com/ Most of the victims are likely small fry kids playing on their parents computer and indirectly through PPTs (these aren't seniors losing their life savings here). Add to it the difficulty of proving that some person corresponds to the screen name and proving the transactions, and it's not a very appetizing case.