Vandroiy
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1002
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July 04, 2012, 10:14:10 PM |
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Why can't it just mean "scam to buy and sell drugs/children/counterfeit Beats headphones?"
Ponzi is not the simplest illegal, immoral, or unethical conclusion. It's just that you like Ponzi because you have to make your extortion cover story seem plausible to the audience to have a chance of squeezing your blackmail out of pirate.
Were I in your shoes, I'd just shoot for "illegal activity" and avoid the loopholes created by your illogical arguments.
Occam's Razor is to find the simplest solution that actually fits the case. The other examples all do not fit the case at all. You don't need other peoples' money to sell anything. Even illegal activity knows exponential growth, Pirateat40 would not need an ever-increasing amount of funds if he can grow his own exponentially. Money laundering has been discussed in great detail, turns out the investors hardly ever help in movement of funds, so it's again pointless. The difference in how well it matches is gigantic. The Ponzi matches perfectly, and the other explanations usually fail at the first comparison to what's actually happening. I'm not saying Occam's Razor is always right. I'm not basing my accusation solely on this either. But Occam's Razor clearly yields that BS&T is a HYIP Ponzi. If it doesn't seem to, there has been some error in its application. |
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"If you don't want people to know you're a scumbag then don't be a scumbag." -- margaritahuyan
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pirateat40
Avast Ye!
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
"Yes I am a pirate, 200 years too late."
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July 04, 2012, 10:31:31 PM |
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@Vandroiy
Let's say you have 135K USD right now. I need you to buy Bitcoins without changing the Mt.Gox rate by 2%. You have 3 days to do it, nah I'll give you 7 days. GO!!!
Let me know how that works out for you.
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Vladimir
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July 04, 2012, 10:34:08 PM |
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@Vandroiy
Let's say you have 135K USD right now. I need you to buy Bitcoins without changing the Mt.Gox rate by 2%. You have 3 days to do it, nah I'll give you 7 days. GO!!!
Let me know how that works out for you.
I'll take this one. Call bit-pay, private deal done in 10 minutes. Next question? |
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pirateat40
Avast Ye!
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
"Yes I am a pirate, 200 years too late."
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July 04, 2012, 10:37:11 PM |
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@Vandroiy
Let's say you have 135K USD right now. I need you to buy Bitcoins without changing the Mt.Gox rate by 2%. You have 3 days to do it, nah I'll give you 7 days. GO!!!
Let me know how that works out for you.
I'll take this one. Call bit-pay, private deal done in 10 minutes. Next question? Try it. Call them up. Ill buy them. |
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Raoul Duke
aka psy
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1002
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July 04, 2012, 10:39:06 PM |
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@Vandroiy
Let's say you have 135K USD right now. I need you to buy Bitcoins without changing the Mt.Gox rate by 2%. You have 3 days to do it, nah I'll give you 7 days. GO!!!
Let me know how that works out for you.
Call bit-pay, private deal done in 10 minutes. Next question? How much will bit-pay earn from that private deal? Also, $135k? In their pocket, regularly? BFL isn't taking pre-orders all the time, remember? The kind of volume they faced in those days was even press release worthy for them  |
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finkleshnorts
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July 04, 2012, 10:42:52 PM |
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None of this explains how bitcoins are repurchased to pay back lenders without driving up the price anyway.
This is huge.
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hazek
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1002
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July 04, 2012, 10:43:11 PM |
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@Vandroiy
Let's say you have 135K USD right now. I need you to buy Bitcoins without changing the Mt.Gox rate by 2%. You have 3 days to do it, nah I'll give you 7 days. GO!!!
Let me know how that works out for you.
Ok I'll bite. What difference does it make if I buy bitcoins directly OTC or on various exchanges vs your selling me what you borrowed and then being forced to buy back what you sold me and then some to pay your "investors", please explain how the price isn't going to move almost exactly the same? Also explain how come no one had any loses when you sold bitcoins before the recent exchange rate increase and had to buy them back and still meet your obligations. Did you foot the loses or did your "investors" and they are keeping quiet? |
My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)
If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
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finkleshnorts
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July 04, 2012, 10:43:30 PM
Last edit: July 04, 2012, 10:54:54 PM by honest bob |
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Oh, shit. GPUMAX??
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Vladimir
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July 04, 2012, 10:44:20 PM |
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Why would I want to call bitpay for ya? You can not be serious.
And chances are that right now you call in with 135k$ deal and they will sell you BTC (if they think you could be trusted counter party) at the spot price. Moving mtgox by exactly 0%.
As simple as that.
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finkleshnorts
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July 04, 2012, 10:45:43 PM |
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Repay lenders with coins bought at a premium from miners, a smaller premium than the cash buyers pay.
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bitcoinBull
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 826
Merit: 1001
rippleFanatic
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July 04, 2012, 10:46:18 PM |
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@Vandroiy
Let's say you have 135K USD right now. I need you to buy Bitcoins without changing the Mt.Gox rate by 2%. You have 3 days to do it, nah I'll give you 7 days. GO!!!
Let me know how that works out for you.
$135k right now all at once moves the price to $6.75, which is only 3%. A far cry from a compounding 7% every 7 days. See you at defcon! lol |
College of Bucking Bulls Knowledge
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finkleshnorts
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July 04, 2012, 10:46:46 PM |
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Just brainstorming on my own over here.
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Vladimir
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July 04, 2012, 10:51:55 PM |
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I've answered your question, Pirate.
Now you answer mine please.
Is there any hard evidence of any value producing economic activity of your operation except taking deposits, paying "dividends" and converting BTC into USD?
i.e. marketing, PR and damage control do not count.
I think it is a simple and fair question that any legitimate business, even anonymous one, should be able to answer quickly and easily.
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finkleshnorts
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July 04, 2012, 10:54:16 PM |
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Just take this and run with it for a minute..,
Pirate borrows coins, sells to cash buyers, (somehow) puts cash into gpumax, repays lenders with fresh coins. Can anyone check the blockchain on that?
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imsaguy
General failure and former
VIP
Hero Member
Offline
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
Don't send me a pm unless you gpg encrypt it.
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July 04, 2012, 10:56:27 PM |
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Just take this and run with it for a minute..,
Pirate borrows coins, sells to cash buyers, (somehow) puts cash into gpumax, repays lenders with fresh coins. Can anyone check the blockchain on that?
Nope. If you watch the payments to bitcoin miners from gpumax, those coins are dirtier than a $2 hooker. Edit: Not dirty as in scam dirty, dirty as in used. |
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Vandroiy
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1002
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July 04, 2012, 10:56:52 PM |
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@Vandroiy
Let's say you have 135K USD right now. I need you to buy Bitcoins without changing the Mt.Gox rate by 2%. You have 3 days to do it, nah I'll give you 7 days. GO!!!
Let me know how that works out for you.
$135k right now all at once moves the price to $6.75, which is only 3%. A far cry from a compounding 7% every 7 days. See you at defcon! lol That was priceless. Uhm, using average, yup. Pirateat, this is trivial. Guys. This was a major screwup. A MAJOR SCREWEUP. He's fucked. Game over. There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY PIRATEAT CAN EXPLAIN THIS FUCKUP!
Spread this post, we won!A trader doing business at this profit would never ever make such a large mistake in guessing trade volumes. He's off by FAR. Actual volumes ALWAYS and MASSIVELY overdo the order book volume. |
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drakahn
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July 04, 2012, 11:02:07 PM |
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@Vandroiy
Let's say you have 135K USD right now. I need you to buy Bitcoins without changing the Mt.Gox rate by 2%. You have 3 days to do it, nah I'll give you 7 days. GO!!!
Let me know how that works out for you.
$135k right now all at once moves the price to $6.75, which is only 3%. A far cry from a compounding 7% every 7 days. See you at defcon! lol That was priceless. Uhm, using average, yup. Pirateat, this is trivial. Guys. This was a major screwup. A MAJOR SCREWEUP. He's fucked. Game over. There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY PIRATEAT CAN EXPLAIN THIS FUCKUP!
Spread this post, we won!A trader doing business at this profit would never ever make such a large mistake in guessing trade volumes. He's off by FAR. Actual volumes ALWAYS and MASSIVELY overdo the order book volume. ... challenge : "try doing it without moving the price more than 2%" "shows a way that moves the price more than 2%" "VICTORY" ?  |
14ga8dJ6NGpiwQkNTXg7KzwozasfaXNfEU
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finkleshnorts
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July 04, 2012, 11:04:42 PM |
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Just take this and run with it for a minute..,
Pirate borrows coins, sells to cash buyers, (somehow) puts cash into gpumax, repays lenders with fresh coins. Can anyone check the blockchain on that?
This got buried... Thoughts? This doesn't solve exp. growth, but it explains how the price wouldnt move and why gpumax exists in the first place. |
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Vandroiy
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1002
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July 04, 2012, 11:06:14 PM |
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Pirateat40 has made a post that implies he works on currency trading.
His post demonstrates he is completely clueless about currency trading.
One: You can do that easily in the active order book.
Two: Any trader doing BTCUSD knows the order book only shows a fraction of short-time volume.
Three: The 2% limit cannot yield 7% for his customers.
This is it. This is not just faint evidence. This is an absolutely enormous undeniable fuckup. Pirateat40 implies to be currency trading, but there is no way in hell a currency trader would make that post.
I'm doing a writeup. Game over, don't even try. Yes, I do currency trading, and you should see the other traders' faces when they read this.
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imsaguy
General failure and former
VIP
Hero Member
Offline
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
Don't send me a pm unless you gpg encrypt it.
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July 04, 2012, 11:08:13 PM |
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Pirateat40 has made a post that implies he works on currency trading.
His post demonstrates he is completely clueless about currency trading.
One: You can do that easily in the active order book.
Two: Any trader doing BTCUSD knows the order book only shows a fraction of short-time volume.
three: The 2% limit cannot yield 7% for his customers.
This is it. This is not just faint evidence. This is an absolutely enormous undeniable fuckup. Pirateat40 implies to be currency trading, but there is no way in hell a currency trader would make that post.
I'm doing a writeup. Game over, don't even try. Yes, I do currency trading, and you should see the other traders' faces when they read this.
Quoted for goodness sake. |
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