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Author Topic: VOD should be removed from default trust for systematic abuse of his position  (Read 55105 times)
TECSHARE (OP)
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January 06, 2015, 09:59:38 AM
Last edit: May 16, 2015, 08:03:30 PM by TECSHARE
Merited by OgNasty (3)
 #1

Once again VOD has gone too far and has now left me negative trust because he did not like the fact I criticized his abuse of the trust system. In order to prove he does not abuse the trust system he has abused the trust system to leave me a negative rating:

Vod 16: -0 / +9(9)   2015-01-06  0.00000000    "Constantly posts lies about me in an effort to have me removed from the default trust list. Honest discussion is one thing, but he just posts BS with absolutely no basis.

Not trustworthy."

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=15728

My goal was not to have you removed from the default trust list until now.

Previously I was simply trying to get you to check your behavior, but now I can see you have no interest in that only digging your trust abuse hole even deeper by accusing me of lying about you and attacking my reputation with a false trust rating. This is clearly an abuse of the trust system in order to silence my criticism of his activities in his abuse of the trust system. I have told no lies about VOD, and I challenge any one to quote anything untrue I stated about VOD. Regardless, he accuses me of things that are not scam related in a very clear attempt to put a chill effect on his criticism, posted in the appropriate areas where such criticism belongs.

I challenge the staff to now remove him from the default trust, because he clearly has no intent of restraining himself if this is how he responds to just criticism. He seems to believe he has some kind of special authority from staff that protects him when he abuses the trust system. Staff, here is your chance to back your denials of preferential treatment for Vod with actions.
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January 06, 2015, 03:16:20 PM
 #2

Vod, you didn't leave a reference thread in your rating of Techshare.
I'd like to see some of those links.

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January 06, 2015, 03:26:50 PM
 #3

He left no reference for me, so his accusations can be taken out of context,
and he is very clearly taking advantage of a system used to bust scammers.
I love being on the forums with a big red mark under my name, because he power tripped.
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January 06, 2015, 03:32:32 PM
 #4

He once again has proven that he leaves feedback based on feelings.
if he feels picked on, the members of the default trust list, should not have this attitude.
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January 06, 2015, 04:01:15 PM
 #5

Vod, you didn't leave a reference thread in your rating of Techshare.
I'd like to see some of those links.
leaving a reference is not required. The op has started a number of threads (some through shills) trying to get Vod removed from default trust list.

I find it somewhat suspicious that the op is so adamant about wanting to be on default trust. Your position as being on default trust means that any time you leave a negative you will be harassed by the receiver. Being on default trust is a service to the community (assuming you do not abuse your position). It is not something that earns any additional power. 

As demonstrated in the op's case, if you abuse your position in default trust then you will be removed.

Vod does a service by calling out scams and preventing less experienced traders from getting scammed.

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January 06, 2015, 04:10:58 PM
 #6

Vod, you didn't leave a reference thread in your rating of Techshare.
I'd like to see some of those links.
leaving a reference is not required. The op has started a number of threads (some through shills) trying to get Vod removed from default trust list.

I find it somewhat suspicious that the op is so adamant about wanting to be on default trust. Your position as being on default trust means that any time you leave a negative you will be harassed by the receiver. Being on default trust is a service to the community (assuming you do not abuse your position). It is not something that earns any additional power. 

As demonstrated in the op's case, if you abuse your position in default trust then you will be removed.

Vod does a service by calling out scams and preventing less experienced traders from getting scammed.
myself and username,  your saying we're shills? Or that he had anything to do with our starting the tread?
Please provide proof of this, seems you and vod are the same. Just posting baseless bullshit.  Because you can.
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January 06, 2015, 04:20:21 PM
 #7

Vod, you didn't leave a reference thread in your rating of Techshare.
I'd like to see some of those links.
leaving a reference is not required. The op has started a number of threads (some through shills) trying to get Vod removed from default trust list.

I find it somewhat suspicious that the op is so adamant about wanting to be on default trust. Your position as being on default trust means that any time you leave a negative you will be harassed by the receiver. Being on default trust is a service to the community (assuming you do not abuse your position). It is not something that earns any additional power. 

As demonstrated in the op's case, if you abuse your position in default trust then you will be removed.

Vod does a service by calling out scams and preventing less experienced traders from getting scammed.
myself and username,  your saying we're shills? Or that he had anything to do with our starting the tread?
Please provide proof of this, seems you and vod are the same. Just posting baseless bullshit.  Because you can.
i am fairly certain neither you not TF are shills. There were other threads opened in recent months created by likely shills. I will have to do some research and get back to you regarding the specific threads.

I would suggest you not try to lead a vendita against vod. There are plenty of people who have done this before only to get trolled to no end by vod. Doing so also is going to remove any chance of him removing negative feedback and will only make you look bad. So many people have done this to him that some have argued for "I hate vod" sub forum to be added

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TECSHARE (OP)
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January 06, 2015, 05:41:54 PM
Last edit: January 06, 2015, 07:51:10 PM by TECSHARE
 #8

leaving a reference is not required. The op has started a number of threads (some through shills) trying to get Vod removed from default trust list.

I find it somewhat suspicious that the op is so adamant about wanting to be on default trust.

This is again another fabrication. I never once requested to be added to the default trust list, not even the first time I was on it. All I was doing was pointing out the glaringly obvious selective enforcement of rules by the staff where they apply only to people like me, but do not apply to people like VOD. Considering that these rules are completely unwritten, I am not sure how I could have possibly known what they are except BY EXAMPLE, set by people... like VOD. The lack of action here by the staff is clear evidence of his protected position regardless of how much he abuses the trust system. People might think I am a pain in the ass around here, and that is ok with me, but what I AM NOT is a liar or a scammer, and I think most people reading this know that.

Vod, you didn't leave a reference thread in your rating of Techshare.
I'd like to see some of those links.
leaving a reference is not required. The op has started a number of threads (some through shills) trying to get Vod removed from default trust list.

I find it somewhat suspicious that the op is so adamant about wanting to be on default trust. Your position as being on default trust means that any time you leave a negative you will be harassed by the receiver. Being on default trust is a service to the community (assuming you do not abuse your position). It is not something that earns any additional power.  

As demonstrated in the op's case, if you abuse your position in default trust then you will be removed.

Vod does a service by calling out scams and preventing less experienced traders from getting scammed.

This is absolute bullshit. I did no such thing. You can build whatever fake narratives you like to defend him, but I have only one account here and have never used shills or even attempted to get VOD removed from the default trust list until now (after he left me negative feedback for pointing out his abuse). Like VOD doesn't start enough of his own shit that I need to get shills to attack him. PLEASE  Roll Eyes  Pointing out his abuse is not equivalent to calling for his removal. Furthermore why is it that VOD can not provide a single example of me lying about him? I would love to see this supposed lie. As far as being a "service to the community", how does this not qualify as him abusing his position? Clearly according to VOD it does give him power, the power to attack anyone who criticizes him with default negative trust in an attempt to silence them. Also, again, shockingly the staff have no comment on yet another clear cut abuse of the trust system from VOD.

You know what I find suspicious? That you find yourself here slandering a person that has been arguing for the removal of the default trust system, basically, if put into effect, putting your peddling of other user's trust out of operation because they will all have the same ranking and people will not pay as much for them if anything.

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January 06, 2015, 08:17:29 PM
 #9

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=878629.0

I am sorry if this is not your shill but he has a similar writing style and made the thread around the same time you were removed from default trust.

If you are not asking to be put back on then I don't understand what you are contiously complaining about as if you don't want to be on default trust then being removed does nothing to you.

The fact that vod is abusing his position on default trust is debatable, I personally don't think he is but I do see your point of view. What is not debatable however is that he is not abusing it for his own personal gain. He is not giving negative trust for people asking him questions about his business practice nor is he directly benefiting when he gives negate trust.

I know that you have used vod as an example multiple times when complaining about being removed from default trust list.

You only started advocating for the trust system to be changed once you were removed from default trust and I had not seen a single post by you speaking against default trust prior to you being removed.

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TECSHARE (OP)
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January 06, 2015, 09:19:37 PM
Last edit: January 06, 2015, 09:39:47 PM by TECSHARE
 #10

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=878629.0

I am sorry if this is not your shill but he has a similar writing style and made the thread around the same time you were removed from default trust.

If you are not asking to be put back on then I don't understand what you are contiously complaining about as if you don't want to be on default trust then being removed does nothing to you.

The fact that vod is abusing his position on default trust is debatable, I personally don't think he is but I do see your point of view. What is not debatable however is that he is not abusing it for his own personal gain. He is not giving negative trust for people asking him questions about his business practice nor is he directly benefiting when he gives negate trust.

I know that you have used vod as an example multiple times when complaining about being removed from default trust list.

You only started advocating for the trust system to be changed once you were removed from default trust and I had not seen a single post by you speaking against default trust prior to you being removed.

I already stated I have no other accounts or shills, so no, that is not me.


The reason I am complaining is because:

1. I never requested to be on the default trust list. I am not sure how I am expected to be responsible for something that I never agreed to.

2. The responsibilities included along with being on the default trust list were NEVER presented to me or explained, and are not written anywhere, leaving me to look to other community members... like VOD to serve an example of what is acceptable practice and what is not for leaving trust.

3. The staff swear up and down that they do not moderate trust, but they clearly do. In my case Theymos personally asked for my removal from the trust of two individuals on the default trust. I was not removed because they did not trust me, I was removed because Theymos asked them to. This was punishment for not obeying staff directives to remove my feedback before Armis removed his harassing slander from my sales threads, and a backdoor way to extort me into modifying my trust rating that they swear up and down they do not moderate.

4. I was removed from the default trust list AND untrusted 2x from people on the default trust list (effectively negating any other people who trust me in the lower default tree as well) for a conflict I did not start and offered a mutually restorative resolution to: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=853522.0

This was insult to injury after my reports were ignored by the staff and I corrected the erroneous value left on the trust. They instead insisted that leaving the rating at all was an abuse of the trust and my refusal to submit to their demands that I remove it was reason for my removal and further punishment of exclusion from trust which I had rightfully earned by trading impeccably here for over 3 years. Additionally staff was quick to slander me publicly and unwilling to listen to any of my points, treating me as if I alone was responsible for the conflict from start to finish, and Armis was purely a victim and not at all an instigator (clearly not true).

5. Selective enforcement of the rules by staff. The main reason I keep bringing up VODs abuse, is because he has done EXACTLY what they claim I have done OVER AND OVER and none of the staff ever even challenge him on it publicly let alone remove him from the default trust list. VODs behavior is clearly abusive and out of line, but for some reason the staff protect him in spite of his willful and brazen repeated abuse of his position on the default trust FOR HIS OWN PERSONAL BENEFIT of silencing people questioning his behavior.

6. Complete ambiguity of unwritten rules. Apparently the staff don't like to write any rules down, because, you know some one might hold them to it.
Apparently people are supposed to just GUESS what the rules are, and if they break one well there isn't usually a warning, just punishment metered out without discussion. Apparently because the staff know what the rules are, the rest of us should know, like via osmosis or something.

7. VODs abuse of the default trust he left for me is NO DIFFERENT than the reason for which staff claimed I was removed from the default trust. Well, except one thing, VOD lied in his trust rating for me, I however was truthful about exactly why I left my rating. He seems to believe if he just puts "I don't think this person is trustworthy" on the end of his trust abuse comment, it magically makes it acceptable.



In summary this isn't about getting back on the default trust or trying to get VOD removed from the trust list (until now), it is about pointing out the fact that the trust system is broken, staff have absurdly ambiguous standards which they selectively enforce and refuse to clarify, along with their disconcerting eagerness to toss out and slander trusted members who have worked very hard to build trust over years for infractions that they refuse to enforce uniformly for all users. In stead of confronting their broken system they would rather rip apart the community starting with the MOST TRUSTED members (except for them and their special pals of course).

I have never been a big fan of the default trust, but until I was removed I had no way to know that trust was actually moderated, default trust users has unwritten and unspoken responsibilities, or that it was so insanely simple for trolls, scammers, and extortionists to have some one removed from the default trust. In short, I had no way of knowing these abuses existed until they were perpetrated upon me personally.

Once again, how exactly is VODs negative rating for me NOT ABUSE? Its ONLY PURPOSE is to punish me for pointing out the many incidents of his default trust abuse, which is CLEARLY abusing the default trust to serve his own personal vendettas and an attempt to silence my LEGITIMATE criticism of him. "scambusting" is nothing than a veil of legitimacy he uses to get away with far more abuse than would be tolerated from anyone here. People claim all his attacks are from scammers trying to slander him for doing such a good job "scambusting", but that is patently false as this case demonstrates clearly. Furthermore his careless and abusive use of the trust system does FAR MORE HARM to honest users caught up in his accusations, than it does to scammers who just return on a new account minutes later, and honest users are not so easily replaced. Overall VOD is more destructive to this community than anything, even when you account for his efforts "stopping" scammers.

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January 06, 2015, 09:39:22 PM
 #11

This has really gone on too long, the staff conspiracy nonsense is getting old, the only reason the staff had any involvement in your removal from default trust, is because you were on my trust list before being removed. If you want to have Vod removed, just like how the system works, you need to contact Tomatocage and anyone else who has Vod on their trust list. But it is the individual's who added him who are the ones that need to take action if they think your claim is valid. It is such hypocracy to be calling the system unfair because of Staff influence, and then trying to get the staff to change it, dispite that not being how the system works. Tec I still consider us buddies, but you were removed because you are far too rash and hotheaded when you feel someone is attacking you. Canaryinthemine and I no longer trusted you to give accurate feedback to others after you blew up.

After the whole Armis fiasco, I recieved 6 pms from different people just asking me to look at the thread about it and asking that I remove you, Theymos' "forcing" us to remove you comprised of the related links, asking me to read them, and "I recommend removing him from your trust list". I took the recommendation, but if I still had faith in you to not blow up when annoyed I wouldn't have removed you. I'd still trust you with my money, but not to react unproportionally to minor annoyances and have that reflect poorly on myself.
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January 06, 2015, 09:55:26 PM
Last edit: January 06, 2015, 10:12:28 PM by TECSHARE
 #12

This has really gone on too long, the staff conspiracy nonsense is getting old, the only reason the staff had any involvement in your removal from default trust, is because you were on my trust list before being removed. If you want to have Vod removed, just like how the system works, you need to contact Tomatocage and anyone else who has Vod on their trust list. But it is the individual's who added him who are the ones that need to take action if they think your claim is valid. It is such hypocracy to be calling the system unfair because of Staff influence, and then trying to get the staff to change it, dispite that not being how the system works. Tec I still consider us buddies, but you were removed because you are far too rash and hotheaded when you feel someone is attacking you. Canaryinthemine and I no longer trusted you to give accurate feedback to others after you blew up.

After the whole Armis fiasco, I recieved 6 pms from different people just asking me to look at the thread about it and asking that I remove you, Theymos' "forcing" us to remove you comprised of the related links, asking me to read them, and "I recommend removing him from your trust list". I took the recommendation, but if I still had faith in you to not blow up when annoyed I wouldn't have removed you. I'd still trust you with my money, but not to react unproportionally to minor annoyances and have that reflect poorly on myself.


There doesn't need to be a "conspiracy" for the staff to steamroll over me carelessly, or to protect their buddies while they abuse the shit out of the trust system. "conspiracy" is just a convenient term used as an attempt to marginalize my valid and very realistic points which none of the staff want to address for whatever reasons.

Why is it hypocritical for me to be punished under a system but then not have the same protection available for myself? Was I not already punished for this? Do I some how now not have any right to claim abuse now because of this? As far as I am concerned that is not my hypocrisy but the hypocrisy of staff refusing to take action against their buddies by only enforcing the rules when it is some one not in their clique. You say that is not how the system works, but clearly the staff all had no problem mobilizing to see to it I was removed from the default trust.

I don't consider you my buddy for a plethora of reasons I will not get into here, and that is not going to change. I believe you know why. You not even attempting to speak on my behalf was just more than I was willing to deal with from you as a "buddy" and only the last straw. I don't need any more buddies who make empty promises and use their trusted position with me to serve themselves and fulfill none of the promises made. Clearly yourself is all you care about, and if you want to make that a public debate as well I am perfectly happy to address it.

NOTE: I have officially requested that Badbear, Canaryinthemine, and Tomatocage remove VOD from their trust lists.
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January 06, 2015, 11:03:44 PM
 #13

I'm starting to see a pattern where Vod
leaves negative trust for non scammers
(Evershawn, Takagari, Tecshare).

In these cases, those receiving negative trust do not
handle it well, and escalate the conflict.
Then Vod responds with escalations of his own.

This is only natural for both sides, however,
I feel that if you're on the default trust
list, you have a greater responsibility --
one that entails the discipline to avoid
these kinds of conflicts and flame wars in the first place.

Yes, people who are escalating their complaints
may be acting brashly or immaturely, but
that doesn't mean they deserve negative trust.

During a conflict, it is too easy to say: "this person lied,
therefore they are untrustworthy and deserve negative trust."

In my humble opinion, this is not the
intended use of the trust system.

Vod is good at detecting liars and scammers,
however, he shies away from using his default
trust to leave negative feedback for obvious
scammers such as Moriarty and BlueMeanie.

I think that if Vod wants to stay on
the default trust his, he should make
some improvements.  


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January 06, 2015, 11:33:46 PM
 #14

I have two ways I can handle TECSHARE lying about me and doing me harm.

1) I can counter his posts over and over in all the *many* threads he spams his BS about me
2) I can leave negative trust in one spot since I don't trust people who pathologically lie about me.

I chose 1 since 2 would disrupt the forum.  TECSHARE already does enough of that.

TECSHARE and his shills know they lie about me.  They know they deserve the negative.  Since TECSHARE's goal is to troll me as long as possible, I'm not going to discuss this further.  Everyone who hates me can keep this thread alive.

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January 07, 2015, 12:08:51 AM
 #15

Vod, can you point to a lie in this thread for reference?


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January 07, 2015, 12:18:40 AM
 #16

I'm starting to see a pattern where Vod
leaves negative trust for non scammers
(Evershawn, Takagari, Tecshare).

In these cases, those receiving negative trust do not
handle it well, and escalate the conflict.
Then Vod responds with escalations of his own.

This is only natural for both sides, however,
I feel that if you're on the default trust
list, you have a greater responsibility --
one that entails the discipline to avoid
these kinds of conflicts and flame wars in the first place.

Yes, people who are escalating their complaints
may be acting brashly or immaturely, but
that doesn't mean they deserve negative trust.

During a conflict, it is too easy to say: "this person lied,
therefore they are untrustworthy and deserve negative trust."

In my humble opinion, this is not the
intended use of the trust system.

Vod is good at detecting liars and scammers,
however, he shies away from using his default
trust to leave negative feedback for obvious
scammers such as Moriarty and BlueMeanie.

I think that if Vod wants to stay on
the default trust his, he should make
some improvements.  


how can you trust a lier, especially over the internet?
i think this is a total valid use pf the trust system

to be honest looking at the tagakari case i think the escalation was tagakaris fault

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jonald_fyookball
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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political


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January 07, 2015, 12:23:18 AM
 #17

I'm starting to see a pattern where Vod
leaves negative trust for non scammers
(Evershawn, Takagari, Tecshare).

In these cases, those receiving negative trust do not
handle it well, and escalate the conflict.
Then Vod responds with escalations of his own.

This is only natural for both sides, however,
I feel that if you're on the default trust
list, you have a greater responsibility --
one that entails the discipline to avoid
these kinds of conflicts and flame wars in the first place.

Yes, people who are escalating their complaints
may be acting brashly or immaturely, but
that doesn't mean they deserve negative trust.

During a conflict, it is too easy to say: "this person lied,
therefore they are untrustworthy and deserve negative trust."

In my humble opinion, this is not the
intended use of the trust system.

Vod is good at detecting liars and scammers,
however, he shies away from using his default
trust to leave negative feedback for obvious
scammers such as Moriarty and BlueMeanie.

I think that if Vod wants to stay on
the default trust his, he should make
some improvements.  


how can you trust a lier, especially over the internet?
i think this is a total valid use pf the trust system

I think you're missing the context here.
Accusations of lying that arise out of a flame
war aren't reliable.  Case in point:  Takagari
"lying" about his zipcode.


ABitNut
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January 07, 2015, 12:50:10 AM
 #18


I think you're missing the context here.
Accusations of lying that arise out of a flame
war aren't reliable.  Case in point:  Takagari
"lying" about his zipcode.



First of all (and on topic) NO person should decide who is on anyone's trust list. Asking someone with administrative powers to modify some other person's trust list is wrong. I you think person A should remove person B from their trust list you have to convince person A to actually do it. "DefaultTrust" is managed by administrators so if you want a person to be removed from it you can try to convince an administrator. Vod is not direclty trusted by DefaultTrust. Asking to get him removed from DefaultTrust is therefore nonsense.

I consider Vod's first trust to be a good test. If the user can't handle it well (goes off on some verbal rampage) then I'd prefer not to deal with that user. If the user does handle it well... Hey, Vod does remove feedback when it turns out to be wrong.

I got myself involved in the whole evershawn drama and I left the following feedback for him:

Quote
Acts very unprofessional when faced with issues / obstactles. I won't do business with anyone acting like him.

In return he left this for me:

Quote
Shill account, created by a coward to perpetrate scams. Account only has the purpose of leaving negative feedback for people and scamming. Don't trust this person, clearly dishonest.

Obviously I feel my trust on him is totally valid. I also think my feedback clearly conveys why I left it. His feedback however.... Well, do you think I am a shill? Do I "perpertrate scams"? Does my account exist only leave negative feedback? Does my account scam?

I followed a few other "Vod is a <noun here>" threads and found that in general he seems to weed out scammers and hotheads/assholes. I'm fine with that.
jonald_fyookball
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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political


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January 07, 2015, 12:50:57 AM
 #19


I consider Vod's first trust to be a good test. If the user can't handle it well (goes off on some verbal rampage) then I'd prefer not to deal with that user. If the user does handle it well... Hey, Vod does remove feedback when it turns out to be wrong.
 

agree.

I guess I just feel sorry for people that get caught up in their own hasty reactions, because
it makes them seem as bad as the scammers with the big red marks.  It also dilutes those
marks for the real scammers.

TECSHARE (OP)
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January 07, 2015, 04:15:58 AM
 #20

I have two ways I can handle TECSHARE lying about me and doing me harm.

1) I can counter his posts over and over in all the *many* threads he spams his BS about me
2) I can leave negative trust in one spot since I don't trust people who pathologically lie about me.

I chose 1 since 2 would disrupt the forum.  TECSHARE already does enough of that.

TECSHARE and his shills know they lie about me.  They know they deserve the negative.  Since TECSHARE's goal is to troll me as long as possible, I'm not going to discuss this further.  Everyone who hates me can keep this thread alive.

1) I haven't lied about you, even once - I noticed you can not provide a single example. I don't see how you actually providing an example disrupts the forum. This is just a vague baseless accusation that you refuse to flesh out (because it never happened).

2) Me pointing out your abuse of the default trust is not lying about you, and this is clearly an attempt to punish me using the default trust system for taking about your abuse of the trust system. This has nothing to do with lying or trolling - this is you using this community as a cudgel to attack people who rightly criticize your actions.

My goal was never to troll you regardless if you really believe that, but rather point out that you are allowed by the staff to freely abuse the trust system without repercussion, and your actions against me demonstrate this.
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