Communist Bitshares Wealth Redistribution IS THEFT!

[DecentralizeEconomics]

The original ideology of Bitcoin, NXT and cryptocurrencies in general was one that was diametrically OPPOSED to the practice of wealth redistribution and forced subsidies to businesses and banks.

"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"
- Bitcoin Genesis Block

It has come to my attention that Bitshares, their developers and entrenched business interests are attempting to infiltrate our movement, which is founded on freedom and independence and perpetuate a forced wealth redistribution scheme under the guise of allegiance to our founding ideals.  Their plot is no less sinister than an intentional conspiracy to disenfranchise Bitshares' stakeholders while holding them liable to be taxed against their will to subsidize these aforementioned interest groups.  I hereby call on all persons who hold liberty in their heart to condemn this treacherous attempt at subterfuge against us!

In fact, by the time BitShares reaches Bitcoin's market cap, each delegate will be one of 101 small businesses, selected by the stakeholders, each using a revenue stream of several million dollars apiece to grow the ecosystem.  Powerful stuff to look forward to!

This is obviously some type of Communist conspiracy no doubt orchestrated at the highest levels of Bitshares(TM), the company.

The hierarchy of Bitshares(TM), the company, and their ungodly creation is best illustrated in the above picture.  The whole organization has an uncanny resemblance to pre-revolutionary France, circa 1789.  As you can see, the Bitshares' devs are the "FIRST ESTATE" and believe it is their right to be given a position of power over the stakeholders.  The "SECOND ESTATE" are entrenched business interests who are powerful enough to force stakeholders to subsidize their operations.  You may find an analogy to taxpayer bailouts for banks and corporations in recent times more understandable, but you can equally relate this situation to the clergy in the land of the Roi.  Regardless of which business you choose, you still must pay your dues to your masters.  Clearly, the "THIRD ESTATE" is the Bitshares' holders.  You can ascertain they are carrying the First and Second Estates on their backs and unduly burdened by their monstrous weight.

I FEEL IT IS MY DUTY, AS ONE WHO BELIEVES IN THE FOUNDING IDEALS OF BITCOIN, NXT AND DECENTRALIZATION, TO INFORM THOSE WHO ARE UNAWARE OF THIS PLOT.

I URGE YOU.  DO NOT LET SUCH AN ATROCITY CONTINUE TO MASQUERADE AS A CRYPTOCURRENCY.  IF ALLOWED TO FESTER, THIS SORE WILL UNDOUBTEDLY INFECT MORE UNWITTING INDIVIDUALS AND FACILITATE IN THE COMPLETE DOWNFALL OF OUR MOVEMENT!

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[testz]

Be careful when you use word "communist", it's scary word only in USA, peoples in China, Russia and many other countries still love this word - this turns your post to BitShares propaganda and you to BitShares propagandist.  

PS: If you like you can fork BitShares to BitShares Communist Edition where everybody can be delegate and can select pay rate which he needs. 

[Bisha]

i loled 

also you got me here too:
AS ONE WHO BELIEVES IN THE FOUNDING IDEALS OF BITCOIN, NXT AND DECENTRALIZATION

I guess that explains it all.

[gyhyq]

nxt is not safe. i lost my nxt .

[StanLarimer]

Ha ha, this is great!

I knew that DE had talent, but we couldn't buy a more attention grabbing post.  Nice job.

We've also been having lots of fun point-counterpoint interactions with his various identities over here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=913075.msg10065220#msg10065220

(If you like this sort of thing)

I think I might start referring to it as "Snopes for BitShares"

 

[p2pbucks]

 

haha ... bts is just for innocent newbies , it's totally controlled by a company as your guys called bitshares' community .
What's the core spirit of bitcoin ? Just use your brain to think about it ! Yes !  No third party control ! No bullshit  redistribution ! No central authorities !
That why bitcoin & decentralized crypos (doges litcoins) exist .
Scam coins don't live long , so save your time and money on these

[brekyrself]

haha ... bts is just for innocent newbies , it's totally controlled by a company as your guys called bitshares' community .
What's the core spirit of bitcoin ? Just use your brain to think about it ! Yes !  No third party control ! No bullshit  redistribution ! No central authorities !
That why bitcoin & decentralized crypos (doges litcoins) exist .
Scam coins don't live long , so save your time and money on these

Not sure if sarcastic or simply purchased a "hero" account? 

[p2pbucks]

haha ... bts is just for innocent newbies , it's totally controlled by a company as your guys called bitshares' community .
What's the core spirit of bitcoin ? Just use your brain to think about it ! Yes !  No third party control ! No bullshit  redistribution ! No central authorities !
That why bitcoin & decentralized crypos (doges litcoins) exist .
Scam coins don't live long , so save your time and money on these

Not sure if sarcastic or simply purchased a "hero" account?  

For bitshares believers , happily accept the result of increasing total supply from 2 billion to 2.5 billion btsx or painfully admit your mistake & get out off the bitshares scam ?

If i  were u , i would choose the later  

[StanLarimer]

haha ... bts is just for innocent newbies , it's totally controlled by a company as your guys called bitshares' community .
What's the core spirit of bitcoin ? Just use your brain to think about it ! Yes !  No third party control ! No bullshit  redistribution ! No central authorities !
That why bitcoin & decentralized crypos (doges litcoins) exist .
Scam coins don't live long , so save your time and money on these

Invictus Innovations built the BitShares Toolkit over the past 18 months and then turned the software over to the BTS owners and disbanded.  Just like Satoshi, except the developers continue to support it as private citizens.  It's had one or more assets in the top 20, top 10, or top 5 on coinmarketcap.com for over a year.  Pretty long time to run a scam.

Now BitShares developers and marketers work for the blockchain and can be hired and fired in ten seconds by the coin holders.  And the innovations and opportunities keep coming.

Kinda cool.

Look at the depth of content in Bytemaster's blog at bytemaster.bitshares.org.  This one was on the reddit/r/bitcoin front page today.  All about how BitShares is a better decentralized alternative to Gox and BitStamp.  Pretty exciting stuff.  

http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/05/The-Future-of-Crypto-Currency-Exchanges/

Sometimes you want to go where everybody knows our real names:
bitsharestalk.org

[p2pbucks]

Bernard Madoff carefully maintained his scam biz about 20 years. Central Bank scam is even running more than hundred years and it's still working .
So ...
Sorry ! Let us face the truth , BTSX did change its total supply  whatever the reason . They break the rules .
You can say bitshares is like stock share which controlled by a company , yea , it's ok !
But be remember , it's not a currency , it's not decentralized , it's totally central controlled . You guys playing this at your own risk .

[toast]

this thread is amazing, please never let it die

[StanLarimer]

Bernard Madoff carefully maintained his scam biz about 20 years. Central Bank scam is even running more than hundred years and it's still working .
So ...
Sorry ! Let us face the truth , BTSX did change its total supply  whatever the reason . They break the rules .
You can say bitshares is like stock share which controlled by a company , yea , it's ok !
But be remember , it's not a currency , it's not decentralized , it's totally central controlled . You guys playing this at your own risk .

Our only rules are that we will continue to innovate and compete for the benefit of our stakeholders.
We ignore competitors who cry "no fair, you keep getting better, you're supposed to stop innovating!"

People get to participate with us in the design process so you get to see the design evolve over time.
Version 1 of the design is not a constraint on what Version 2, 3, and 500 will be.  
Upgrading a design in progress is hardly breaking the rules.  That's what we have always promised to do.

The opportunity is to watch the design evolve in broad daylight and invest accordingly.

The only other things we disagree about are:

It is a currency.  (A volatile coin containing an unmanned company that generates non-volitile smart coins, actually.)
It is decentralized.  Much more decentralized than Bitcoin's six major mining companies who control it all.
BitShares has zero central control other than those who lead by reputation and consensus.  
It's individual coin holders control who the blockchain pays to maintain and extend it.

BitShares was built by a private company which released it into the wild and disbanded.
Now anyone is free to work on it as an independent individual contributor.
You can get paid if the coinholders agree to elect you.
Five spinoffs are already out there using the Toolkit for a variety of other business models from music to gaming.

Our code and activities are an open book.  Show us the scam.

[StanLarimer]

Haven't i told and warned you about the people of Bitshares and Protoshares people ? Manipulating their coins to get their goals down is what they do.

But you can talk to Bytemaster himself every Friday when he opens the door to questions from a world wide live audience.

You can listen to his interviews on BitShares.TV and read his prolific articles at bytemaster.bitshares.org.

You can look him in the eye and get to know him personally at Bitcoin conferences.

Listen to his keynote address at Inside Bitcoin's Las Vegas conference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U44MujtVj00

Chat with his forum colleagues at bitsharestalk.org

Lots of ways to do your own due diligence.

 

[tokeweed]

this thread is amazing, please never let it die

like the screen name and avatar. 

[FandangledGizmo]

BitShares is free market capitalism that has given power to the people of their own property

I don't want miners to have power over me, they're my coins, give me a vote. Our community would have voted Ghash.io out in a few minutes and not let them get 40%+ control. Ghash.io is what happens when you give up your personal freedom to hashers. (Not that I don't like Bitcoin, but I believe we have better models now.)

Why does the OP think distribution of coins to miners is not re-distribution of wealth but distribution to development, infrastructure and marketing is?

How has the $80 million that Litecoin paid to miners last year helped LiteCoin? - That's a messed up system having no choice but to pay 30% tax a year and getting nothing in return. (In LTC's case miners actually earned more from new coins than LTC is even currently worth.)

In the same period, with a few million dollars, BitShares developed arguably the most advanced blockchain in crypto with a decentralised exchange & BitAssets which are a technological triumph. They are already at no.5 within 6 months of release.

I have small amounts of other coins and personally prefer no inflation,  but the pace of BitShares progress right now is crazy & their model means that trend is logically going to continue & leave other outdated blockchains behind.

OP's Pictures are quite funny though.

[FandangledGizmo]

BitShares is free market capitalism that has given power to the people of their own property

I don't want miners to have power over me, they're my coins, give me a vote. Our community would have voted Ghash.io out in a few minutes and not let them get 40%+ control. Ghash.io is what happens when you give up your personal freedom to hashers. (Not that I don't like Bitcoin, but I believe we have better models now.)

Why does the OP think distribution of coins to miners is not re-distribution of wealth but distribution to development, infrastructure and marketing is?

How has the $80 million that Litecoin paid to miners last year helped LiteCoin? - That's a messed up system having no choice but to pay 30% tax a year and getting nothing in return. (In LTC's case miners actually earned more from new coins than LTC is even currently worth.)

In the same period, with a few million dollars, BitShares developed arguably the most advanced blockchain in crypto with a decentralised exchange & BitAssets which are a technological triumph. They are already at no.5 within 6 months of release.

I have small amounts of other coins and personally I prefer no inflation but the pace of BitShares progress right now is crazy & their model means that trend is logically going to continue & leave other outdated blockchains behind.

OP's Pictures are quite funny though.

Writcoin™ creates a heterarchical monetary authority by permitting its end users to “spend” money into existence—approximating anarchist communism.

Though its coinbase transactions are, by their definition, unspendable, one’s mining efforts would still be appreciated.

Writcoin™ creates a heterarchical monetary authority by permitting its end users to “spend” money into existence—approximating anarchist communism.

In Writcoin™, every client “gets a say” in the deflation (achieved via the funding of unspendable transactions) and inflation (achieved via the defunding of spendable transactions) of the GEC supply.

There's an overlap of currency/company here.

If you want the best blockchain in the world & world class infrastructure to go with it, unfortunately that costs money. Only the market leader really gets a free pass there. That's why the next biggest decentralised alternative to Bitcoin, LiteCoin is 1/50th the size of BTC.

BitShares is the only model out there that can realistically become bigger than Bitcoin imo maybe even as soon as 12-24 months. All the other decentralised models look destined to stay 1/100th the size of BTC with only the miners making decent money because they can't fund competitive development, infrastructure and marketing.

At a few times Bitcoin's size the income from fees will be very large and cover all general needs. So ultimately I expect BitShares to have no inflation (my preference is no inflation) and holders to actually earn a dividend.

[DecentralizeEconomics]

Be careful when you use word "communist", it's scary word only in USA, peoples in China, Russia and many other countries still love this word - this turns your post to BitShares propaganda and you to BitShares propagandist. 

PS: If you like you can fork BitShares to BitShares Communist Edition where everybody can be delegate and can select pay rate which he needs. 

If the word "communism" doesn't horrify you, then replace it with the words "crony capitalism" and you will surely be mortified.

Ha ha, this is great!

I knew that DE had talent, but we couldn't buy a more attention grabbing post.  Nice job.

We've also been having lots of fun point-counterpoint interactions with his various identities over here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=913075.msg10065220#msg10065220

You assume incorrectly that I am "Newmine".

The only other things we disagree about are:

It is a currency.  (A volatile coin containing an unmanned company that generates non-volitile smart coins, actually.)

Of course.  BitShares is a company!  If the owning stakeholders think that will make them more profitable and grow faster, why can't a company decide to do that? 

In the short term, while shares are worth pennies

Remember, BitShares is a company, not a currency.  It is a unmanned, decentralized company that produces and trades interest-paying "smart currencies" as its product.  So judge it by whether it is a good idea and implementation for a company, not a currency.  Then you can get past all the accepted rules that (may or may not) apply to future currencies and see clearly what the investment opportunity truly is here.

Which is it?  A company or a currency?

It is decentralized.  Much more decentralized than Bitcoin's six major mining companies who control it all.

You cannot prove this because there is no way to verify delegates are independent.  You actually assert that an individual controlling multiple delegates is acceptable.

It is not "more decentralized" than NXT.

BitShares has zero central control other than those who lead by reputation and consensus.

Again, this is an assumption.  Please provide verifiable blockchain proof.  Oh wait... you can't.

BitShares is free market capitalism that has given power to the people of their own property

Wrong.  Bitshares forces its stakeholders to give their power to delegates.  Why would anyone want to hand over the security of their investment to anyone especially ones that are not verifiable to be independent.  If you want to give the power back to the people, you allow them to secure their own investment and not force them to delegate it to others.  The only logical rational for forcing people to centralize their forging power around delegates is to ensure that the system can be controlled by a select group individuals.

I don't want miners to have power over me, they're my coins, give me a vote. Our community would have voted Ghash.io out in a few minutes and not let them get 40%+ control. Ghash.io is what happens when you give up your personal freedom to hashers. (Not that I don't like Bitcoin, but I believe we have better models now.)

Why does the OP think distribution of coins to miners is not re-distribution of wealth but distribution to development, infrastructure and marketing is?

How has the $80 million that Litecoin paid to miners last year helped LiteCoin? - That's a messed up system having no choice but to pay 30% tax a year and getting nothing in return. (In LTC's case miners actually earned more from new coins than LTC is even currently worth.)

You failed to read these critical words:

The original ideology of Bitcoin

PoW was a different system when the currency holders used their own computers to secure the chain.  Now that the chain is mainly secured by profiteers it is no longer operating in the original design and spirit that Satoshi intended.

[FandangledGizmo]

Be careful when you use word "communist", it's scary word only in USA, peoples in China, Russia and many other countries still love this word - this turns your post to BitShares propaganda and you to BitShares propagandist.  

PS: If you like you can fork BitShares to BitShares Communist Edition where everybody can be delegate and can select pay rate which he needs.  

If the word "communism" doesn't horrify you, then replace it with the words "crony capitalism" and you will surely be mortified.

Ha ha, this is great!

I knew that DE had talent, but we couldn't buy a more attention grabbing post.  Nice job.

We've also been having lots of fun point-counterpoint interactions with his various identities over here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=913075.msg10065220#msg10065220

You assume incorrectly that I am "Newmine".

The only other things we disagree about are:

It is a currency.  (A volatile coin containing an unmanned company that generates non-volitile smart coins, actually.)

Of course.  BitShares is a company!  If the owning stakeholders think that will make them more profitable and grow faster, why can't a company decide to do that?  

In the short term, while shares are worth pennies

Remember, BitShares is a company, not a currency.  It is a unmanned, decentralized company that produces and trades interest-paying "smart currencies" as its product.  So judge it by whether it is a good idea and implementation for a company, not a currency.  Then you can get past all the accepted rules that (may or may not) apply to future currencies and see clearly what the investment opportunity truly is here.

Which is it?  A company or a currency?

It is decentralized.  Much more decentralized than Bitcoin's six major mining companies who control it all.

You cannot prove this because there is no way to verify delegates are independent.  You actually assert that an individual controlling multiple delegates is acceptable.

It is not "more decentralized" than NXT.

BitShares has zero central control other than those who lead by reputation and consensus.

Again, this is an assumption.  Please provide verifiable blockchain proof.  Oh wait... you can't.

BitShares is free market capitalism that has given power to the people of their own property

Wrong.  Bitshares forces its stakeholders to give their power to delegates.  Why would anyone want to hand over the security of their investment to anyone especially ones that are not verifiable to be independent.  If you want to give the power back to the people, you allow them to secure their own investment and not force them to delegate it to others.  The only logical rational for forcing people to centralize their forging power around delegates is to ensure that the system can be controlled by a select group individuals.

I don't want miners to have power over me, they're my coins, give me a vote. Our community would have voted Ghash.io out in a few minutes and not let them get 40%+ control. Ghash.io is what happens when you give up your personal freedom to hashers. (Not that I don't like Bitcoin, but I believe we have better models now.)

Why does the OP think distribution of coins to miners is not re-distribution of wealth but distribution to development, infrastructure and marketing is?

How has the $80 million that Litecoin paid to miners last year helped LiteCoin? - That's a messed up system having no choice but to pay 30% tax a year and getting nothing in return. (In LTC's case miners actually earned more from new coins than LTC is even currently worth.)

You failed to read these critical words:

The original ideology of Bitcoin

PoW was a different system when the currency holders used their own computers to secure the chain.  Now that the chain is mainly secured by profiteers it is no longer operating in the original design and spirit that Satoshi intended.

It's a company/currency hybrid for me. My personal preference from a pure currency POV is a no dilution defined currency like NXT. I don't hold NXT though because it's not very competitive.

For me the reason most alts are stagnant and 1/100 of BTC or less is because they have very limited development, usually down to 1/2 people. They can't hire by consensus.

The BitShares blockchain can hire the best development talent, pay for marketing and grow infrastructure all in a decentralised way by stakeholder consensus. I have more voting power and it's more decentralised than POW pools. I can vote out a Ghash.io.  Is DPOS more decentralised than POS?
I think that's what Daniel's latest blog post is about so I'll defer to that.

If NXT is happy with their system, great. I just don't think you can compete on development, marketing or infrastructure with a blockchain that can hire talent by consensus and you're going to really the see the gap widen at a rapid pace these next few months.

If anyone thinks they can add value to BitShares you can make a delegate proposal and get hired by the blockchain... Check it out - https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=61.0

[DecentralizeEconomics]

It's a company/currency hybrid for me. My personal preference from a pure currency POV is a no dilution defined currency like NXT. I don't hold NXT though because it's not very competitive.

For me the reason most alts are stagnant and 1/100 of BTC or less is because they have very limited development, usually down to 1/2 people. They can't hire by consensus.

The BitShares blockchain can hire the best development talent, pay for marketing and grow infrastructure all in a decentralised way by stakeholder consensus. I have more voting power and it's more decentralised than POW pools. I can vote out a Ghash.io.  Is DPOS more decentralised than POS?
I think that's what Daniel's latest blog post is about so I'll defer to that.

If NXT is happy with their system, great. I just don't think you can compete on development, marketing or infrastructure with a blockchain that can hire talent by consensus and you're going to really the see the gap widen at a rapid pace these next few months.

If anyone thinks they can add value to BitShares you can make a delegate proposal and get hired by the blockchain... Check it out - https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=61.0

Daniel's "theory" that all systems centralize at scale due to cost and therefore, we should design centralization into them is flawed.  This "theory" was debunked over on NXT's forum.

So basically you're saying that you're willing to sell your ideology, belief system and the original intent of the cryptocurrency movement, decentralization, down the river in the hopes of making a profit off a system that is designed to centralize.

[Crestington]

Again I'd like to point out....

How do you pay for innovation and new technology through volunteers alone?

Bitcoin technology moves at a snails pace and at it's current rate will collapse within 2 years. Why? because every person who comes to these forums are expecting that they will buy a Coin, hold it and it will be worth a million dollars without doing any work whatsoever. The last project that had any decent money coming in was DogeCoin during the big February pump but as there was no new updates since then and as the price began to drop, all those donations disappeared.

BitShares is upfront with the way it is run, shareholders have done quite well, new tech has been rolling out. I don't own any Bitshares but it addresses one of the biggest issues I have with CyptoCurrencies and if you really don't like it, there are a thousand other Coins to choose from.

Edit:

The original ideology of Bitcoin

An idea can be grand and work on paper but when put into practice it often has flaws. The original ideology of BitCoin was the decentralize the economy (which you can see with all the choices).

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them" - Albert Einstein