Diablo Mining Company will never buy Butterfly Labs hardware

[CubedRoot]

After reading this thread, I have to ask myself.  WTH has happened to the mods on this board?  D3 seems to have gotten butt-hurt somehow, lied about sticky-ing this thread and is seemingly abusing his mod-powers to trash talk another member (BFL) and another (possible compeititor?).

One would think a Mod should be unbiased and can use proper judgement. I guess not. 

[1714019481]

1714019481

[1714019481]

1714019481

[ShadesOfMarble]

Why did you post that you are now waiting for 25 BFl SC Units ?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=92244.msg1016511#msg1016511

I didn't.

This is an insurance product that will pay out either in the situation that BFL ships 25 units, or that they do not ship 25 units, depending on which insurance you buy.

That double standard:

I will never buy BFL products but I have ordered 25 units so if they ship you get this, but if they don't ship you get that, but I will still never buy BFL product.. EH?

> "In the event that Butterfly Labs fails to deliver at least a sum total of twenty-five (25) units composed of all three products offered described exactly as above to customers by the end of October 31st 2012"

> "to customers"

-> any customer, not him

[jwzguy]

Why did you post that you are now waiting for 25 BFl SC Units ?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=92244.msg1016511#msg1016511

I didn't.

This is an insurance product that will pay out either in the situation that BFL ships 25 units, or that they do not ship 25 units, depending on which insurance you buy.

That double standard:

I will never buy BFL products but I have ordered 25 units so if they ship you get this, but if they don't ship you get that, but I will still never buy BFL product.. EH?

The post you linked to does not say anywhere that Diablo has ordered anything from BFL. It says "to customers."

[crazyates]

Why did you post that you are now waiting for 25 BFl SC Units ?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=92244.msg1016511#msg1016511

I didn't.

This is an insurance product that will pay out either in the situation that BFL ships 25 units, or that they do not ship 25 units, depending on which insurance you buy.

That double standard:

I will never buy BFL products but I have ordered 25 units so if they ship you get this, but if they don't ship you get that, but I will still never buy BFL product.. EH?

> "In the event that Butterfly Labs fails to deliver at least a sum total of twenty-five (25) units composed of all three products offered described exactly as above to customers by the end of October 31st 2012"

> "to customers"

-> any customer, not him

Ya I read that, and I never got the impression that he ordered 25 units. It sounds like he's making a bet whether BFL can ship ANY 25 units to ANY customers before the end of October.

[DiabloD3]

This is an insurance product that will pay out either in the situation that BFL ships 25 units, or that they do not ship 25 units, depending on which insurance you buy.

 Great. So if it wasn't bad enough that some moderators seemingly have no sense of objectivity, we now have a moderator endorsing and organizing gambling ?

 Diablo, it's time to step down. Your jimmies are way too rustled over all this BFL stuff.

What does me providing an insurance product have to do with me being a moderator? If I never became moderator, I would have still done it... and the reason I was made moderator was because I wrote DiabloMiner. Should I step down from developing DiabloMiner because I do a lot for the community? You don't make any sense.

[crazyates]

This is an insurance product that will pay out either in the situation that BFL ships 25 units, or that they do not ship 25 units, depending on which insurance you buy.

 Great. So if it wasn't bad enough that some moderators seemingly have no sense of objectivity, we now have a moderator endorsing and organizing gambling ?

 Diablo, it's time to step down. Your jimmies are way too rustled over all this BFL stuff.

What does me providing an insurance product have to do with me being a moderator? If I never became moderator, I would have still done it... and the reason I was made moderator was because I wrote DiabloMiner. Should I step down from developing DiabloMiner because I do a lot for the community? You don't make any sense.

It doesn't come accross as a "insurance product". It looks a lot like a "put your money where your mouth is" gamble.

[DiabloD3]

Ya I read that, and I never got the impression that he ordered 25 units. It sounds like he's making a bet whether BFL can ship ANY 25 units to ANY customers before the end of October.

Yes, this is what I wrote. No one else seems to have had any other interpretation.

[DiabloD3]

This is an insurance product that will pay out either in the situation that BFL ships 25 units, or that they do not ship 25 units, depending on which insurance you buy.

 Great. So if it wasn't bad enough that some moderators seemingly have no sense of objectivity, we now have a moderator endorsing and organizing gambling ?

 Diablo, it's time to step down. Your jimmies are way too rustled over all this BFL stuff.

What does me providing an insurance product have to do with me being a moderator? If I never became moderator, I would have still done it... and the reason I was made moderator was because I wrote DiabloMiner. Should I step down from developing DiabloMiner because I do a lot for the community? You don't make any sense.

It doesn't come accross as a "insurance product". It looks a lot like a "put your money where your mouth is" gamble.

Insurance is gambling with statistics. Life insurance, for example, is where you gamble that the owner of the insurance will pay in more money (pre-investment) than is paid out on the policy at the time of death (post-investment).

[crazyates]

This is an insurance product that will pay out either in the situation that BFL ships 25 units, or that they do not ship 25 units, depending on which insurance you buy.

 Great. So if it wasn't bad enough that some moderators seemingly have no sense of objectivity, we now have a moderator endorsing and organizing gambling ?

 Diablo, it's time to step down. Your jimmies are way too rustled over all this BFL stuff.

What does me providing an insurance product have to do with me being a moderator? If I never became moderator, I would have still done it... and the reason I was made moderator was because I wrote DiabloMiner. Should I step down from developing DiabloMiner because I do a lot for the community? You don't make any sense.

It doesn't come accross as a "insurance product". It looks a lot like a "put your money where your mouth is" gamble.

Insurance is gambling with statistics. Life insurance, for example, is where you gamble that the owner of the insurance will pay in more money (pre-investment) than is paid out on the policy at the time of death (post-investment).

Insurance isn't just "gambling". Its a customer paying money for the transference of risk (of any kind) to the insurance company. For someone buying life insurance, you pay a monthly due, and you receive the reduction of risk that if you die, your family will not go into debt. You pay auto insurance as a protection of the CHANCE of you getting into an accident, and having to buy a new car.

For someone who has purchased a BFL ASIC, the DI.BFLSC.Fail could be seen as an insurance. They are paying more BTC now, in case their investment doesn't pay off in the time frame allotted. They pay now, as a reduction of the risk of potential future failure.

However, the DI.BFLSC.Succeed does nothing to reduce risk. It's a risk for risk's sake, which is a gamble.

[DiabloD3]

This is an insurance product that will pay out either in the situation that BFL ships 25 units, or that they do not ship 25 units, depending on which insurance you buy.

 Great. So if it wasn't bad enough that some moderators seemingly have no sense of objectivity, we now have a moderator endorsing and organizing gambling ?

 Diablo, it's time to step down. Your jimmies are way too rustled over all this BFL stuff.

What does me providing an insurance product have to do with me being a moderator? If I never became moderator, I would have still done it... and the reason I was made moderator was because I wrote DiabloMiner. Should I step down from developing DiabloMiner because I do a lot for the community? You don't make any sense.

It doesn't come accross as a "insurance product". It looks a lot like a "put your money where your mouth is" gamble.

Insurance is gambling with statistics. Life insurance, for example, is where you gamble that the owner of the insurance will pay in more money (pre-investment) than is paid out on the policy at the time of death (post-investment).

Insurance isn't just "gambling". Its a customer paying money for the transference of risk (of any kind) to the insurance company. For someone buying life insurance, you pay a monthly due, and you receive the reduction of risk that if you die, your family will not go into debt. You pay auto insurance as a protection of the CHANCE of you getting into an accident, and having to buy a new car.

For someone who has purchased a BFL ASIC, the DI.BFLSC.Fail could be seen as an insurance. They are paying more BTC now, in case their investment doesn't pay off in the time frame allotted. They pay now, as a reduction of the risk of potential future failure.

However, the DI.BFLSC.Succeed does nothing to reduce risk. It's a risk for risk's sake, which is a gamble.

Nope, DMC is going to own 16 BTC of Succeed, it needs to insure against the outcome of BFL not being a long con.

[mrb]

IIRC BFL started advertising their SC products (without revealing they were ASICs) at least 6 months ago. Assuming they have been working on them for that long, they will have put 10 months of work in them by October.

It was WAY before that.
Their 'Super Computer' products were advertised right next to the single and rig-box from the outset.

It can't be way before that. Their website didn't even exist before November-December 2011.

[imsaguy]

IIRC BFL started advertising their SC products (without revealing they were ASICs) at least 6 months ago. Assuming they have been working on them for that long, they will have put 10 months of work in them by October.

It was WAY before that.
Their 'Super Computer' products were advertised right next to the single and rig-box from the outset.

It can't be way before that. Their website didn't even exist before November-December 2011.

They also claim/did claim that their singles were ASIC, so to say they meant the super computers were always asic leaves quite a bit open for discussion.

[P_Shep]

IIRC BFL started advertising their SC products (without revealing they were ASICs) at least 6 months ago. Assuming they have been working on them for that long, they will have put 10 months of work in them by October.

It was WAY before that.
Their 'Super Computer' products were advertised right next to the single and rig-box from the outset.

It can't be way before that. Their website didn't even exist before November-December 2011.

http://www.butterflylabs.com/november-production-update/

Update 4th Nov 2011.

They produced the prototype there in 4 days?

First mention on these boards August 2011:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=38922.0

So yeah, some time ago.

[ARapalo]

Lol I did a quick google search of Butterfly labs and came upon this thread. Read the first few pages, and it looks like DiabloD3, you just damaged reps for you and your company.

[crazyates]

Without a second vendor producing hardware just as efficient and cheap as Butterfly Labs claims their new Bitforce SC hardware is, I do not believe Butterfly Labs is being completely honest with potential customers.

BFL SC Single: 40GH/s @ $1300USD
bASID: 27GH/s @ $1069USD

The bASIC is 68% as fast as the BFL SC Single and 82% of the cost. Granted the BFL SC Single still has ~20% MHs/$ advantage, but it's pretty close. Any updates on your original statements?

[dlasher]

Without a second vendor producing hardware just as efficient and cheap as Butterfly Labs claims their new Bitforce SC hardware is, I do not believe Butterfly Labs is being completely honest with potential customers.

BFL SC Single: 40GH/s @ $1300USD
bASID: 27GH/s @ $1069USD
TychoASIC: 80GH/s @ $2800USD

The bASIC is 68% as fast as the BFL SC Single and 82% of the cost. Granted the BFL SC Single still has ~20% MHs/$ advantage, but it's pretty close. Any updates on your original statements?

I included them in your quote, in bold, tycho announced ASIC's today : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=108375.0

[crazyates]

Without a second vendor producing hardware just as efficient and cheap as Butterfly Labs claims their new Bitforce SC hardware is, I do not believe Butterfly Labs is being completely honest with potential customers.

BFL SC Single: 40GH/s @ $1300USD
bASID: 27GH/s @ $1069USD
TychoASIC: 80GH/s @ $2800USD

The bASIC is 68% as fast as the BFL SC Single and 82% of the cost. Granted the BFL SC Single still has ~20% MHs/$ advantage, but it's pretty close. Any updates on your original statements?

I included them in your quote, in bold, tycho announced ASIC's today : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=108375.0

I saw that this morning as well. The fact that it can run without a computer is very attractive, and it is very competitively priced compared to a pair of SC Singles.