Bitcoin Jesus ministry not to preach from American soil

[inBitweTrust]

I am talking about the Bitcoin nut jobs specifically.  There are many reasonable people involved in Bitcoin who embrace some of those ideals.  However, there is list of agenda-pushers and nut jobs involved in Bitcoin who routinely misrepresent things such as:  Ver, Vorhees, Shrem, Rassah, Tourianski, Popescu, Mayer, etc.  These are the people who are damaging Bitcoin's reputation and misrepresent what Bitcoin is.  They are the "Al Sharpton's" of Bitcoin and they attract the type of people who scare normal people away.  These are not the same type of people as those you list above.

Awww c'mon embrace the diversity, some real characters involved in BTC, like this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sgg2MvAz8I and Mr Ipad Chain

LOL..... Exactly, keep Bitcoin weird. Don't nuetuer it and turn it into a competing paypal. Embrace diversity. Welcome choice. We don't need another inflationary currency or form of fiat as there are already many of those options available.

[1714760454]

1714760454

[HELP.org]

I am talking about the Bitcoin nut jobs specifically.  There are many reasonable people involved in Bitcoin who embrace some of those ideals.  However, there is list of agenda-pushers and nut jobs involved in Bitcoin who routinely misrepresent things such as:  Ver, Vorhees, Shrem, Rassah, Tourianski, Popescu, Mayer, etc.  These are the people who are damaging Bitcoin's reputation and misrepresent what Bitcoin is.  They are the "Al Sharpton's" of Bitcoin and they attract the type of people who scare normal people away.  These are not the same type of people as those you list above.

We are all part of bitcoin. I understand it is discomforting for you to acknowledge their contributions to our ecosystem. They do not solely represent Bitcoin and neither does the Bitcoin Foundation. This is a open source collaborative effort where everyone has an equal opportunity to contribute or for media exposure. You just seem bitter that they get more attention than you think they deserve. You have just as much opportunity as them to get attention.

Rather than pout, why don't you take a more positive approach to promoting your agenda and join organizations like the Bitcoin Foundation?

I run my own web sites and do my own thing.  What I hate is when I try to explain Bitcoin to someone and they start bringing up all the nut-job stuff.  It is embarrassing to try to explain away claims such as Bitcoin will end wars when the clown claiming it is on the agenda of a Bitcoin conference.  The comic relief of some of the stupid things you see from these people keeps me going.  Actually I bought Bitcoin.me from that Popescu clown via a broker.  A transaction that normally takes 2-3 days took 2-3 months.   

My first day in Bitcoin was reading a thread of how everyone involved in Bitcoin should be on WoW because that is the only thing that means anything.  Then I was referred to Erik Vorhees description of BTC.  Then I saw the video of the Bitfloor guy in his skull cap explaining how he lost everyone's funds.  I tried buying Bitcoin and I found a guy who used my bank but I found out he was involved in MyBitcoin (I tried to buy bitcoinme.com from the same guy and he wanted $5 million).  I ordered mining equipment from that caplepair guy.  Then people started threatening him and posting pictures of his family when he didn't deliver and I alerted the police up where he lives.  Then you have Theymos, a guy who has the emergency alert key, promoting a fake bank using the Bitcoin Foundation logo.  No wonder Satoshi dropped out.

[inBitweTrust]

I run my own web sites and do my own thing.  What I hate is when I try to explain Bitcoin to someone and they start bringing up all the nut-job stuff.  It is embarrassing to try to explain away claims such as Bitcoin will end wars when the clown claiming it is on the agenda of a Bitcoin conference.  The comic relief of some of the stupid things you see from these people keeps me going.  Actually I bought Bitcoin.me from that Popescu clown via a broker.  A transaction that normally takes 2-3 days took 2-3 months.  

My first day in Bitcoin was reading a thread of how everyone involved in Bitcoin should be on WoW because that is the only thing that means anything.  Then I was referred to Erik Vorhees description of BTC.  Then I saw the video of the Bitfloor guy in his skull cap explaining how he lost everyone's funds.  I tried buying Bitcoin and I found a guy who used my bank but I found out he was involved in MyBitcoin (I tried to buy bitcoinme.com from the same guy and he wanted $5 million).  I ordered mining equipment from that caplepair guy.  Then people started threatening him and posting pictures of his family when he didn't deliver and I alerted the police up where he lives.  Then you have Theymos, a guy who has the emergency alert key, promoting a fake bank using the Bitcoin Foundation logo.  No wonder Satoshi dropped out.

I also see a lot of "professionals" pulling ponzi operations and scamming people out of millions who actively promote regulation and get endorsed by organizations like the Bitcoin Foundation.

You are representing a distorted view of history right now as there are psychopaths, thieves, and con men in all walks of life and backgrounds.

You live in a fantasy world where "certified" corruption and "regulated" crime is acceptable and small time criminals aren't. I do not make such distinctions and actively attack either regardless of their claimed philosophical beliefs. Sociopaths and Con-men are attracted to power like moths to a flame and thus gravitate to positions of authority you seek to impose on the rest of us through voted in institutions of violence. I understand your intentions may be well placed but it is naive to believe that corruption can be eliminated from states or regulators if we just try a little harder or vote the right person in next time.

[leopard2]

Every time I see a post from Milly Bitcoin, I just want to do this:

I don't do anything when I see your posts because they are worthless.  You go around calling people "trolls" like some teenager and you complain government is too big.  No kidding, everybody knows that.  Comcast is too big too and getting support is like contacting a government office.  So what about that?

As for a foreigner trying to get in, the US has no obligation whatsoever to accommodate someone or answer their complaints.  Just like if I went to the Saudi Arabia border and started complaining if they won't let in.

Decent countries don't do that, though, because they appreciate business travel or tourists. Of course, if a country is so powerful, rich and arrogant that they can treat everyone like shit, this could happen.

It's funny though, that this always happens to people going to the US, hardly ever are Americans treated like that when they travel to Europe, for instance.

No fingerprinting, no storing of personal data for 75 years, no treatment like a heap of dung....

Btw Roger says he is paying US taxes, so he has a fucking right to enter!

[iheartubuntu]

...No, you will be "pushed out" as more reasonable people get involved...  

But it feels like you have a personal vendetta against certain community people. Instead of attacking others, you could take a different approach such as promoting the people you have trust in, people that have viewpoints and/or morals that align with your way of thinking. That would definitely be a much more positive way and you would gain friends instead of turning people off. You have the same negative vibrations in comments on other websites too. So this really isnt just about Roger. Its almost like you have become or are becoming what you most despise. And Im sure thats not you at all. Someplace maybe you were wronged, I dont know, but just sit back and think about the message you are trying to portray and whatever it is you are typing, ask yourself... will this be constructive? does this jive with you want to happen? What is it that you want to happen? Maybe thats a better question and then look at which ways, or which commenting method will help you achieve you goal faster. Anger and hate or promoting people that you side with. Thats just my 2c. I think generally we are all good people and instead of this little bickering we could just, you know, why cant we all just get along?

[Flashman]

hardly ever are Americans treated like that when they travel to Europe, for instance.

Well, as long as they plaster their baggage with Canadian flags.....

[Blazr]

I would like to point out a few more things:

1. The law states I only need to have ties to a country outside of the USA.  It doesn't need to be my country of citizenship.

2. In addition to 9 years of history with Japan, I already have strong ties to St Kitts at this point.  In St Kitts, I bought a substantial amount of real estate, have local friends, started my own local business, and have participated deeply with other local businesses.

You own a house outside of the US? Thats very unusual, I've never heard of someone being refused entry due to lack of outside ties when they own a house abroad. You should talk to a lawyer.

[HELP.org]

You live in a fantasy world where "certified" corruption and "regulated" crime is acceptable and small time criminals aren't. I do not make such distinctions and actively attack either regardless of their claimed philosophical beliefs. Sociopaths and Con-men are attracted to power like moths to a flame and thus gravitate to positions of authority you seek to impose on the rest of us through voted in institutions of violence. I understand your intentions may be well placed but it is naive to believe that corruption can be eliminated from states or regulators if we just try a little harder or vote the right person in next time.

Corruption can never be eliminated under any system.   Regulators can also never be eliminated because people don't want them to be eliminated.  People often won't do things voluntarily so it is waste of time trying to come up with a system based on voluntary compliance.   

[HELP.org]

...No, you will be "pushed out" as more reasonable people get involved...  

But it feels like you have a personal vendetta against certain community people. Instead of attacking others, you could take a different approach such as promoting the people you have trust in, people that have viewpoints and/or morals that align with your way of thinking. That would definitely be a much more positive way and you would gain friends instead of turning people off. You have the same negative vibrations in comments on other websites too. So this really isnt just about Roger. Its almost like you have become or are becoming what you most despise. And Im sure thats not you at all. Someplace maybe you were wronged, I dont know, but just sit back and think about the message you are trying to portray and whatever it is you are typing, ask yourself... will this be constructive? does this jive with you want to happen? What is it that you want to happen? Maybe thats a better question and then look at which ways, or which commenting method will help you achieve you goal faster. Anger and hate or promoting people that you side with. Thats just my 2c. I think generally we are all good people and instead of this little bickering we could just, you know, why cant we all just get along?

Yes, some of these people are damaging my investment and I don't like them.  I think many more people are starting to see through their nonsense so maybe my messages will do some good.  Of course when you start arguments with people who live in an echo chamber it often does not turn out well. 

[inBitweTrust]

Corruption can never be eliminated under any system.   Regulators can also never be eliminated because people don't want them to be eliminated.  People often won't do things voluntarily so it is waste of time trying to come up with a system based on voluntary compliance.    

You are presenting a false dichotomy. There are arguments to be had regarding levels of degree of corruption in societies and other means to enforce and regulate society that don't rely on either voluntary human good will or regulators with threats of violence.

Bitcoin is a case in point as it offers regulations and security within the blockchain based upon a combination of game theory , appealing to peoples self interest and greed, relying on cryptographic trap doors, and having a decentralized peer system to verify transactions. In this case it doesn't rely upon people voluntarily complying out of kindness as the protocol insures everyone complies regardless of intentions.

I understand this currently has limited applications but developers are already working on self regulating contracts based upon ricardian contracts using multisig trust less escrow and  oracles to offer regulation which aren't as corruptible and inefficient as traditional legal systems.

You may think we are idealistic but keep in mind Bitcoin was never supposed to work and make it thus far, and any competent engineer scoffed at the idea when it was first proposed because how ludicrous it was.... and now we are here.

Yes, some of these people are damaging my investment and I don't like them.  

There are bigger things at stake than your investment treating Bitcoin as some paypal alternative stock speculation. There are ethical and moral considerations to ponder.

So this is what I propose: We won't tell you how to use bitcoin and you allow us to peacefully carry out this experiment to fruition.

[HELP.org]

Corruption can never be eliminated under any system.   Regulators can also never be eliminated because people don't want them to be eliminated.  People often won't do things voluntarily so it is waste of time trying to come up with a system based on voluntary compliance.    

You are presenting a false dichotomy. There are arguments to be had regarding levels of degree of corruption in societies and other means to enforce and regulate society that don't rely on either voluntary human good will or regulators with threats of violence.

Bitcoin is a case in point as it offers regulations and security within the blockchain based upon a combination of game theory , appealing to peoples self interest and greed, relying on cryptographic trap doors, and having a decentralized peer system to verify transactions. In this case it doesn't rely upon people voluntarily complying out of kindness as the protocol insures everyone complies regardless of intentions.

I understand this currently has limited applications but developers are already working on self regulating contracts based upon ricardian contracts using multisig trust less escrow and  oracles to offer regulation which aren't as corruptible and inefficient as traditional legal systems.

You may think we are idealistic but keep in mind Bitcoin was never supposed to work and make it thus far, and any competent engineer scoffed at the idea when it was first proposed because how ludicrous it was.... and now we are here.

Yes, some of these people are damaging my investment and I don't like them.  

There are bigger things at stake than your investment treating Bitcoin as some paypal alternative stock speculation. There are ethical and moral considerations to ponder.

So this is what I propose: We won't tell you how to use bitcoin and you allow us to peacefully carry out this experiment to fruition.

Bitcoin is here, the agenda people are pushing is still in the same place.  The usefulness has to do with the technology and has nothing to do with the fantasy agenda.  The part about autonomous companies running off the Blockchain is also a fantasy.  While it is true that some things can be automated off the blockchain and those things are very useful, a company what provides goods and services is still made up of people and those people perform those services in some jurisdiction and they are subject to laws in that jurisdiction.  This hand-waiving "automated companies" claim is part of the misinformation by the agenda pushers.  these technologies are very useful on their own and attaching them to some unrealistic agenda hurts their adoption.

As for Crazy loaf, anyone who doesn't agree with some stupid fantasy agenda is a "government troll"  and anyone who disagrees is "vomiting."  It is funny how Trace Mayer and Erik Vorhees have used the exact same "vomiting" line when I challenge their nonsense. 

[freedombit]

damaging my investment

Enough said. And in response, a great Satoshi quote:

If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.

To everyone building the "fantasy agenda", avoid this distractions and use incidents like these for motivation to continue building the dream. It is happening.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4_gNRkh7zA

[cyberpinoy]

America is ran by a bunch of bail me out bankers, wallstreet brats and the military industrial complex, the people who live thier are just the ones forking the bill for all the rich greedy assholes in office.

[jbreher]

Bitcoin is here, the agenda people are pushing is still in the same place.  The usefulness has to do with the technology and has nothing to do with the fantasy agenda.  The part about autonomous companies running off the Blockchain is also a fantasy.  While it is true that some things can be automated off the blockchain and those things are very useful, a company what provides goods and services is still made up of people and those people perform those services in some jurisdiction and they are subject to laws in that jurisdiction.  This hand-waiving "automated companies" claim is part of the misinformation by the agenda pushers.  these technologies are very useful on their own and attaching them to some unrealistic agenda hurts their adoption.

Jeeze - you've got it all figured out, don't ya?

Here's the deal. No matter how much whining you do, you're not likely to halt the trajectory of those who are pushing Bitcoin as part of an ideologically held self consistent set of principles for changing the world. Must suck, what with looking out of your mental cage, fully impotent to stop free people from exercising their freedoms.

I've usually found it best to avoid butting my head repeatedly against an immovable object -- that whole serenity, courage, wisdom bit -- but feel free to knock yourself out. We unwashed heathens will just continue to ignore your naysaying, and continue herding spontaneous order out of crypto chaos. Your welcome.

[HELP.org]

Bitcoin is here, the agenda people are pushing is still in the same place.  The usefulness has to do with the technology and has nothing to do with the fantasy agenda.  The part about autonomous companies running off the Blockchain is also a fantasy.  While it is true that some things can be automated off the blockchain and those things are very useful, a company what provides goods and services is still made up of people and those people perform those services in some jurisdiction and they are subject to laws in that jurisdiction.  This hand-waiving "automated companies" claim is part of the misinformation by the agenda pushers.  these technologies are very useful on their own and attaching them to some unrealistic agenda hurts their adoption.

 you're not likely to halt the trajectory of those who are pushing Bitcoin as part of an ideologically held self consistent set of principles for changing the world.

There is no "trajectory," there is a small number of mentally ill people who are in an echo chamber.  Nobody listens to your agenda which is why you post your nonsense in a Bitcoin form.  That is why erik Vorhees leads off all his papers with discussions of the technology and why Ver keeps trying to associate himself with satoshi.  The so-called principals cannot stand on their own.

You have made the point that I have been discussing.  The people I am talking about are not promoting Bitcoin, they are promoting a fantasy which you call a "self consistent set of principles for changing the world."  Something which has zero chance of success which is why it is detrimental to lump it in with the Bitcoin technology.

This is how you look to normal people:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVHLHfoWEHE&t=4m22s

[siameze]

Here is how Help.org thinks we look like:

[QuestionAuthority]

Here is how Help.org thinks we look like:

He is a fool or a brainwashed government puppet (which, I suppose, is the same thing). Why do you not have him on Ignore?

[siameze]

He is a fool or a brainwashed government puppet (which, I suppose, is the same thing). Why do you not have him on Ignore?

I believe in free speech for the most part. I don't necessarily dislike him/her but the caveman comment a few posts back just gave me pause. Not sure what to make of that outlook.

[HELP.org]

Here is how Help.org thinks we look like:

Actually I always think of that Dead Milkmen song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyaK3jo4Sl4

Code:

We went to the Philly Pizza Company
And ordered some hot tea
The waitress said "Well no
We only have it iced"
So we jumped up on the table
And shouted "anarchy"

[siameze]

As I stated previously Help.org, someone I respect highly values your opinions obviously and I do enjoy your posts. That particular statement just felt a bit ad hominem. It takes all kinds though for sure.