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Author Topic: Request to have michaeladair removed from BadBears trust list  (Read 4425 times)
Quickseller
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January 17, 2015, 06:38:52 PM
 #61

I'm out of the default trust now, I'm gonna work with badbear and sort out the claim made against me that i use all those alts. (See my trust for the list that quickseller made)

In general, I'm not going to get involved with these sorts of accusations of alts/sockpuppets. If I'm not going to confirm such accusations, then it's a bad idea to deny them as well. In cases where I do not deny them, people would see it as effectively a confirmation, when there are other reasons I may not want to confirm such allegations. You'll also end up in situations where people will just start throwing a bunch of accusations out to see what sticks. 

Besides, I can't state with any authority whether x is not y, only thing I can do is state whether there is evidence they are (and see previous statement for why I won't disclose that). Lack of such evidence doesn't mean they aren't.

There are lots of bad reasons to start doing this sort of thing, in the end I've decided it's best to just stay out of it, as an admin anyway. This doesn't mean I won't take actions regarding my personal trust list.

Is it not possible to check the ips that logged into to the alts and my account?

I know you are against doing it as an admin, but I don't want to be marked with this false negative trust...

Like I said above even if it were shown that you are not an alt of the people claimed to be you I would only edit the negative to reflect you being an extortionist, which I think is the worse of the claims. Like MadZ said, my feedback says you are either an alt or an associate (e.g. in the same scamming ring) of them. Like I said, I would accept you publishing a single PM to/from Plutonium as proof you are not one and the same.

I really don't care if I am labeled as an EXTORTIONIST, that is basically what I did to you and I realize that. I just do not want to be falsely accused of something that I did not do.
If I had to choose between being called a thief or an extortionist then I would pick thief any day (I am not either of them).

I have edited my feedback to show you as only being an extortionist, although I cannot guarantee that someone else will look at the same evidence I looked at and make the same conclusion (and potentially leave similar feedback that I originally left you).

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michaeladair
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January 17, 2015, 06:51:38 PM
 #62

I'm out of the default trust now, I'm gonna work with badbear and sort out the claim made against me that i use all those alts. (See my trust for the list that quickseller made)

In general, I'm not going to get involved with these sorts of accusations of alts/sockpuppets. If I'm not going to confirm such accusations, then it's a bad idea to deny them as well. In cases where I do not deny them, people would see it as effectively a confirmation, when there are other reasons I may not want to confirm such allegations. You'll also end up in situations where people will just start throwing a bunch of accusations out to see what sticks. 

Besides, I can't state with any authority whether x is not y, only thing I can do is state whether there is evidence they are (and see previous statement for why I won't disclose that). Lack of such evidence doesn't mean they aren't.

There are lots of bad reasons to start doing this sort of thing, in the end I've decided it's best to just stay out of it, as an admin anyway. This doesn't mean I won't take actions regarding my personal trust list.

Is it not possible to check the ips that logged into to the alts and my account?

I know you are against doing it as an admin, but I don't want to be marked with this false negative trust...

Like I said above even if it were shown that you are not an alt of the people claimed to be you I would only edit the negative to reflect you being an extortionist, which I think is the worse of the claims. Like MadZ said, my feedback says you are either an alt or an associate (e.g. in the same scamming ring) of them. Like I said, I would accept you publishing a single PM to/from Plutonium as proof you are not one and the same.

I really don't care if I am labeled as an EXTORTIONIST, that is basically what I did to you and I realize that. I just do not want to be falsely accused of something that I did not do.
If I had to choose between being called a thief or an extortionist then I would pick thief any day (I am not either of them).

I have edited my feedback to show you as only being an extortionist, although I cannot guarantee that someone else will look at the same evidence I looked at and make the same conclusion (and potentially leave similar feedback that I originally left you).

I'd rather be an Extortionist rather than a thief... thank you.

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January 18, 2015, 01:16:46 PM
 #63

Like I said above he is clearly trying to silence the opinions that he does not agree with which is not something that the trust system was designed to do.
Yet when Vod did the same to iCEBREAKER, you defended Vod. Bit hypocritical, isn't it?

Anyway, it's interesting to see BadBear adding you, an account seller, and Michaeladair, a ponzi supporter/operator, into his trust list. More interesting than watching you and Michael flinging handbags at one another.
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January 18, 2015, 01:18:31 PM
 #64

Like I said above he is clearly trying to silence the opinions that he does not agree with which is not something that the trust system was designed to do.
Yet when Vod did the same to iCEBREAKER, you defended Vod. Bit hypocritical, isn't it?

Anyway, it's interesting to see BadBear adding you, an account seller, and Michaeladair, a ponzi supporter/operator, into his trust list. More interesting than watching you and Michael flinging handbags at one another.


Let the court know, the ponzi operator deal is just an accusation. And its a Prada Handbag...

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January 18, 2015, 01:32:12 PM
 #65

In my honest opinion...Quickseller should drop the negative trust.

Just my BTC0.02.
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January 18, 2015, 01:34:50 PM
 #66

In my honest opinion...Quickseller should drop the negative trust.

Just my BTC0.02.
I mean, it's true I kinda did extort my trust in order to attempt to get him to remove the negative trust he kept sending to the gambling games...
I'd agree with you if he just made it into neutral, but I don't think it should disappear.

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January 18, 2015, 01:37:32 PM
 #67

In my honest opinion...Quickseller should drop the negative trust.

Just my BTC0.02.
I'd agree with you if he just made it into neutral, but I don't think it should disappear.

That's what I meant. But a negative isn't really warranted.
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January 18, 2015, 01:39:54 PM
 #68

In my honest opinion...Quickseller should drop the negative trust.

Just my BTC0.02.
I'd agree with you if he just made it into neutral, but I don't think it should disappear.

That's what I meant. But a negative isn't really warranted.

Okay, well thanks for your support... Even though I don't believe he'll change it.

"You were scammed or you strongly believe that this person is a scammer."
I didn't scam, so I guess that's a point that can be made.

"Comments. Your rating will not affect this person's trust score."
I guess the trust he sent is more like a neutral comment...

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January 18, 2015, 01:41:24 PM
 #69

In my honest opinion...Quickseller should drop the negative trust.

Just my BTC0.02.
I'd agree with you if he just made it into neutral, but I don't think it should disappear.

That's what I meant. But a negative isn't really warranted.

Okay, well thanks for your support... Even though I don't believe he'll change it.

"You were scammed or you strongly believe that this person is a scammer."
I didn't scam, so I guess that's a point that can be made.

"Comments. Your rating will not affect this person's trust score."
I guess the trust he sent is more like a neutral comment...

Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
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January 18, 2015, 04:07:06 PM
 #70

Where the hell do you get off saying that I hack accounts now, and why would I hack redsnows account... I admire him as an escrow even though he messed up a little.
Both you and Spodermen were actively pushing/promoting bitcoin-stocks. This makes me believe that you are either one and the same or are partners with him. It is confirmed that Spodermen was selling hacked accounts.

I do not know for sure that was your rationale behind blackmailing me into removing my trust left for Redsn0w, however I am fairly confident that it was more then "he is your friend"

If you were to hack his account you would likely use it the same way every other recently hacked account was used for - to try to scam - since it has a decent amount of trust it probably could get a pretty large take

I am Spodermen, thought I should let you know, and I want to express I didn't sell the account. I was reselling the default trust account you were selling.

Stop spreading bullshit because your so called proof meant jack shit.

You fail as "scam detector" with false evidence, i'm going to be working my ass off to prove all of your cases wrong, and when I do i'll be putting you to shame in front of this whole section.
I am glad that I am able to piss off scammers. I am not sure why you aren't posting from your Spodermen account, however you admitting to be one and the same only confirms that you are either the same as michaledair or are partners with him as you both were pushing bitcoin-stocks very hard.

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January 18, 2015, 07:39:40 PM
 #71

Where the hell do you get off saying that I hack accounts now, and why would I hack redsnows account... I admire him as an escrow even though he messed up a little.
Both you and Spodermen were actively pushing/promoting bitcoin-stocks. This makes me believe that you are either one and the same or are partners with him. It is confirmed that Spodermen was selling hacked accounts.

I do not know for sure that was your rationale behind blackmailing me into removing my trust left for Redsn0w, however I am fairly confident that it was more then "he is your friend"

If you were to hack his account you would likely use it the same way every other recently hacked account was used for - to try to scam - since it has a decent amount of trust it probably could get a pretty large take

I am Spodermen, thought I should let you know, and I want to express I didn't sell the account. I was reselling the default trust account you were selling.

Stop spreading bullshit because your so called proof meant jack shit.

You fail as "scam detector" with false evidence, i'm going to be working my ass off to prove all of your cases wrong, and when I do i'll be putting you to shame in front of this whole section.
I am glad that I am able to piss off scammers. I am not sure why you aren't posting from your Spodermen account, however you admitting to be one and the same only confirms that you are either the same as michaledair or are partners with him as you both were pushing bitcoin-stocks very hard.

If I was the same or even in cahoots with this guy then don't you think I would have gotten him to help me a lot earlier?

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January 18, 2015, 07:41:38 PM
 #72

If I was the same or even in cahoots with this guy then don't you think I would have gotten him to help me a lot earlier?
That person is a long time known scammer and a lier. There is noting he could say that could help you.

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January 18, 2015, 07:46:36 PM
 #73

If I was the same or even in cahoots with this guy then don't you think I would have gotten him to help me a lot earlier?
That person is a long time known scammer and a lier. There is noting he could say that could help you.

I don't care if he can help me, I'm just saying that I'm not in cahoots with any of those scammers.

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January 18, 2015, 08:00:33 PM
 #74

If I was the same or even in cahoots with this guy then don't you think I would have gotten him to help me a lot earlier?
That person is a long time known scammer and a lier. There is noting he could say that could help you.

I don't care if he can help me, I'm just saying that I'm not in cahoots with any of those scammers.
His MO is even the same as yours. If you look at the feedback dooglas gave him you will see that he blackmailed dooglas into removing his negative trust or he would leave a negative trust on dooglas saying 1000 BTC was risked.

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January 18, 2015, 08:59:46 PM
 #75

If I was the same or even in cahoots with this guy then don't you think I would have gotten him to help me a lot earlier?
That person is a long time known scammer and a lier. There is noting he could say that could help you.

I don't care if he can help me, I'm just saying that I'm not in cahoots with any of those scammers.
His MO is even the same as yours. If you look at the feedback dooglas gave him you will see that he blackmailed dooglas into removing his negative trust or he would leave a negative trust on dooglas saying 1000 BTC was risked.

I never gave you negative trust with any value to it + Exortionist does not mean i scam. So that shouldnt be red trust (Negative - You were scammed or you strongly believe that this person is a scammer.).

Also, there is no hard evidence that I am aligned with those accounts or the bitcoinstocks scam.

No offense but your claims are empty and you have no proof that I am related to any of those claimed alts or that I work with them.
I tried playing fair and being nice with you, so as to avoid these accusations. I even consented to an IP check, but you still go on and blame me.


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January 18, 2015, 09:21:04 PM
 #76

If I was the same or even in cahoots with this guy then don't you think I would have gotten him to help me a lot earlier?
That person is a long time known scammer and a lier. There is noting he could say that could help you.

I don't care if he can help me, I'm just saying that I'm not in cahoots with any of those scammers.
His MO is even the same as yours. If you look at the feedback dooglas gave him you will see that he blackmailed dooglas into removing his negative trust or he would leave a negative trust on dooglas saying 1000 BTC was risked.

I never gave you negative trust with any value to it + Exortionist does not mean i scam. So that shouldnt be red trust (Negative - You were scammed or you strongly believe that this person is a scammer.).

Also, there is no hard evidence that I am aligned with those accounts or the bitcoinstocks scam.
Quote from: google search for "extortion"
(n)the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.
In trying to extort me into not giving negative trust to the ponzi scams you were trying to scam. When I leave negative trust on someone's account it takes away value from their account. By trying to get me to stop giving negative trust to those scams you were essentially trying to get me to give value to the accounts that they do not deserve. This is important because you were planning on starting a ponzi scam under your own name and did not want to get negative trust when you started it (not to mention the fact that you are likely behind some of the other ponzi scams out there that created new accounts based on how hard you were pushing several of them). This is probably why both you are moreia have been taking out so many loans - because you want to build up trust so people will quickly "invest" in your scam.

There is evidence that you are partners with the other accounts and the bitcoin-stocks scam as outlined above. Like I said you were pushing the bitcoin-stocks scam very hard, and were pushing another one very hard (I forget which one) that also ran away with investor money. A very highly trusted and respected member of the community even said
Quote
It's possible, its difficult to say whether he's simply an idiot or apart of that ring of ponzis though....


The reason I put the trust back on to reflect my belief that you are associated with bitcoin-stocks et el is because you opened a new loan request ~18 hours after you canceled your previous one when I stated I still strongly believe you are associated with them. You also happened to cancel your loan request minutes after you said it was still needed. This makes me believe that you were trying to hide the fact that I believe you are part of the ring of scammers

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January 18, 2015, 09:25:00 PM
 #77

If I was the same or even in cahoots with this guy then don't you think I would have gotten him to help me a lot earlier?
That person is a long time known scammer and a lier. There is noting he could say that could help you.

I don't care if he can help me, I'm just saying that I'm not in cahoots with any of those scammers.
His MO is even the same as yours. If you look at the feedback dooglas gave him you will see that he blackmailed dooglas into removing his negative trust or he would leave a negative trust on dooglas saying 1000 BTC was risked.

I never gave you negative trust with any value to it + Exortionist does not mean i scam. So that shouldnt be red trust (Negative - You were scammed or you strongly believe that this person is a scammer.).

Also, there is no hard evidence that I am aligned with those accounts or the bitcoinstocks scam.
Quote from: google search for "extortion"
(n)the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.
In trying to extort me into not giving negative trust to the ponzi scams you were trying to scam. When I leave negative trust on someone's account it takes away value from their account. By trying to get me to stop giving negative trust to those scams you were essentially trying to get me to give value to the accounts that they do not deserve. This is important because you were planning on starting a ponzi scam under your own name and did not want to get negative trust when you started it (not to mention the fact that you are likely behind some of the other ponzi scams out there that created new accounts based on how hard you were pushing several of them). This is probably why both you are moreia have been taking out so many loans - because you want to build up trust so people will quickly "invest" in your scam.

There is evidence that you are partners with the other accounts and the bitcoin-stocks scam as outlined above. Like I said you were pushing the bitcoin-stocks scam very hard, and were pushing another one very hard (I forget which one) that also ran away with investor money. A very highly trusted and respected member of the community even said
Quote
It's possible, its difficult to say whether he's simply an idiot or apart of that ring of ponzis though....


The reason I put the trust back on to reflect my belief that you are associated with bitcoin-stocks et el is because you opened a new loan request ~18 hours after you canceled your previous one when I stated I still strongly believe you are associated with them. You also happened to cancel your loan request minutes after you said it was still needed. This makes me believe that you were trying to hide the fact that I believe you are part of the ring of scammers

I did not know that they were going to scam in the end, I didn't see anything wrong in what they were doing at the time because they were obviously paying back. I too got hurt in there scam and won't be making all my money back. You have no hard evidence that I was a part of any of those scams because, it'd be impossible to gather. Being that I was never a part of them...

I started a new loan request because I plan on buying an alt coin that I noticed will go up soon, I do this activity a lot. I always have money in my pocket in order to pay back the loan if things go wrong.

FYI: I removed the past loan request because I didn't need it, I don't need any more of a reason other than that.

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January 18, 2015, 09:35:50 PM
 #78

I did not know that they were going to scam in the end, I didn't see anything wrong in what they were doing at the time because they were obviously paying back. I too got hurt in there scam and won't be making all my money back. You have no hard evidence that I was a part of any of those scams because, it'd be impossible to gather. Being that I was never a part of them...
Like you said it would be impossible to gather hard evidence that you were part of the scam. However I believe the evidence that I have is conclusive enough for me to reasonably believe that you are one and the same. I included reference links so anyone looking at you trust can look at the evidence and judge for themselves.
I started a new loan request because I plan on buying an alt coin that I noticed will go up soon, I do this activity a lot. I always have money in my pocket in order to pay back the loan if things go wrong.
If you really have money in your pocket then you should use that instead of borrowing bitcoin. You will save a lot on interest.


You noticed that an altcoin will start going up soon? LOL I think the only appropriate response is that of SaltySpitoon's signature:
Quote from:  SaltySpitoon's signature
Hate losing your money to Alt Coins? Tired of false hope and the anticipation waiting around for it to fail?
Send your BTC here: 1JXwGd1N8eP4WWMP6mLe6UNAycDhzqvhJo
No more waiting! Just losses! Guaranteed!!!

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January 18, 2015, 09:41:43 PM
 #79

Like you said it would be impossible to gather hard evidence that you were part of the scam. However I believe the evidence that I have is conclusive enough for me to reasonably believe that you are one and the same. I included reference links so anyone looking at you trust can look at the evidence and judge for themselves.

Why not just make it neutral trust then, if you do that then I'll just post under every loan request that my Trust list includes a scam accusation and that I am an extortionist. If you want people to judge the trust themselves then this will be best. Because, usually when people look at accounts and see red trust they just walk over it.

If you really have money in your pocket then you should use that instead of borrowing bitcoin. You will save a lot on interest.

I only take loans for higher risk investments, and only at a fraction of what I can actually handle to lose. This method works well for me and I don't really care if I save on interest, it's what I do.

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January 18, 2015, 09:47:14 PM
 #80

Like you said it would be impossible to gather hard evidence that you were part of the scam. However I believe the evidence that I have is conclusive enough for me to reasonably believe that you are one and the same. I included reference links so anyone looking at you trust can look at the evidence and judge for themselves.

Why not just make it neutral trust then, if you do that then I'll just post under every loan request that my Trust list includes a scam accusation and that I am an extortionist. If you want people to judge the trust themselves then this will be best. Because, usually when people look at accounts and see red trust they just walk over it.
1 - because it is not appropriate to be neutral. I do highly believe that you are a scammer. 2 - even if I changed it to neutral then the extortionist rating would remain as negative so your trust score would remain the same.
If you really have money in your pocket then you should use that instead of borrowing bitcoin. You will save a lot on interest.

I only take loans for higher risk investments, and only at a fraction of what I can actually handle to lose. This method works well for me and I don't really care if I save on interest, it's what I do.

If you are taking high risk investments then chances are, over time you are going to lose. Like I said you would be better off outright buying bitcoin, it would improve your ROI

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