BurtW arrested (update: charges dropped!)

[jwcastle]

Is it possible to arrest someone for money laundering when the government does not officially recognize Bitcoins as currency?

[leopard2]

federal prosecutor has right. it's written on the FINCEN law this thing....

a person that creates units of convertible virtual currency and sells those units to another person for real currency or its equivalent is engaged in transmission to another location and is a money transmitter. In addition, a person is an exchanger and a money transmitter if the person accepts such de-centralized convertible virtual currency from one person and transmits it to another person as part of the acceptance and transfer of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency."

A court will decide who's right. I am not so sure.

"An exchanger is a person engaged as a business in the exchange of virtual currency for real currency, funds, or other virtual currency."

http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/31/5364406/bitcoin-miners-investors-not-regulated-fincen-ruling

The FINCEN thingy was meant for businesses, not individuals (investors or traders). Since MSB licenses are very expensive, a broad application of these regulations would essentially result in a ban for individuals to trade Bitcoins.

Normally in the civilised parts of the world, courts tend not to restrict the rights of individuals too much.

The nasty part is to draw the line between business and personal activity.

[wunkbone]

federal prosecutor has right. it's written on the FINCEN law this thing....

a person that creates units of convertible virtual currency and sells those units to another person for real currency or its equivalent is engaged in transmission to another location and is a money transmitter. In addition, a person is an exchanger and a money transmitter if the person accepts such de-centralized convertible virtual currency from one person and transmits it to another person as part of the acceptance and transfer of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency."

A court will decide who's right. I am not so sure.

"An exchanger is a person engaged as a business in the exchange of virtual currency for real currency, funds, or other virtual currency."

http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/31/5364406/bitcoin-miners-investors-not-regulated-fincen-ruling

The FINCEN thingy was meant for businesses, not individuals (investors or traders). Since MSB licenses are very expensive, a broad application of these regulations would essentially result in a ban for individuals to trade Bitcoins.

Normally in the civilised parts of the world, courts tend not to restrict the rights of individuals too much.

The nasty part is to draw the line between business and personal activity.

The line between someone selling a few bitcoin they mined and someone selling/trading bitcoin as a business is very fine. I suspect there is something more then just operating without a license. As mentioned above federal law enforcement agents came in very "heavy" with over 35 agents searching his house.

[leopard2]

true, maybe there is something behind it we don't know, like the Shrem/BTCKing thing?

[wunkbone]

true, maybe there is something behind it we don't know, like the Shrem/BTCKing thing?

That is possible. I was thinking that it was probably something along the lines of selling via some kind of dark market site (although this is nothing more then speculation).

I can't think of any other reason why they would send so many agents to arrest him. (I don't think he was known to be dangerous )

[TheButterZone]

Due to the high correlation between bitcoin and law-abiding gun ownership libertarians/an-caps exercise the right to, I'm surprised they didn't shoot his dog or children in a no-knock raid.

[flipstyle]

I'm a bit perplexed.

I thought bitcoin ownership and conversion is perfectly legal in the U.S.  Or is it a state-by-state basis? 

Or perhaps he was just doing this unreported and did not pay a single penny of tax on it? If so, then I have no sympathy for him, that's clearly breaking the law.

[seriouscoin]

http://siliconangle.com/blog/2015/01/26/colorado-man-facing-5-years-jail-for-buying-and-selling-bitcoin-without-a-license/

according to his website that is linked to this article they arrested him in his home, 35 federal agents searched his house, seized an unspecific amount of money, and seized their computers.

I am curious to see the search/arrest warrants for him and what they claim exactly he was doing. This sounds like a pretty big response to just selling Bitcoin to a police officer who said they were going to use the money to buy drugs.

Damn, 35 agents is a lot! but they do usually send excessive numbers for an arrest, usually 9 or 10. I guess they needed 25 extra forensics guys to deal with the computer media!

A ridiculous number? Yes and no. That is what its all about, keeping large numbers of people happily employed and well paid: an overstaffed organization. High taxes, almost no checks and balances and a gigantic number of arbitrary laws make it possible.

http://www.burtw.com/home.html

  A mixture between Stalinism and Gotham City, if you ask me, the grotesque exaggeration of it will hopefully gather the attention of the court.

Of course there is  a difference between what the feds want and what they get; so far this is only allegations.

Now the really good question is, what would have happened if the agents would not have suggested that they use funds associated with criminal activity? That is the definition of money laundering and pretty much illegal anywhere on the planet.

The fascism starts where private individuals are banned from trading goods and services: “The federal prosecutor believes a person must have a money transmittal license to buy and sell Bitcoins for individual investment.”

I doubt that is the truth. Ofcourse when you're asking for donations, you will make it sounds like you've done nothing wrong.

I will keep my eyes on this case. If what was said is truth, any lawyer worth his bar exam can defend this and counter sue for damages.

[seriouscoin]

I'm a bit perplexed.

I thought bitcoin ownership and conversion is perfectly legal in the U.S.  Or is it a state-by-state basis? 

Or perhaps he was just doing this unreported and did not pay a single penny of tax on it? If so, then I have no sympathy for him, that's clearly breaking the law.

Ofcourse thats not a whole story. Seriously think hes only buying and selling for his own investment? Thats what he will use for defense. FEDs might have more than that.

[wunkbone]

I'm a bit perplexed.

I thought bitcoin ownership and conversion is perfectly legal in the U.S.  Or is it a state-by-state basis? 

Or perhaps he was just doing this unreported and did not pay a single penny of tax on it? If so, then I have no sympathy for him, that's clearly breaking the law.

Ofcourse thats not a whole story. Seriously think hes only buying and selling for his own investment? Thats what he will use for defense. FEDs might have more than that.

Of course there is more then that. The indictment even says that he was transmitting money to further criminal activity, so it is known that he was supposedly selling to people trying to commit illegal activity and admitting to as much. 

[flipstyle]

I'm a bit perplexed.

I thought bitcoin ownership and conversion is perfectly legal in the U.S.  Or is it a state-by-state basis? 

Or perhaps he was just doing this unreported and did not pay a single penny of tax on it? If so, then I have no sympathy for him, that's clearly breaking the law.

Ofcourse thats not a whole story. Seriously think hes only buying and selling for his own investment? Thats what he will use for defense. FEDs might have more than that.

That's what I'm thinking.  Otherwise, FEDs would be having a field day prosecuting thousands of sellers on localbitcoins over the past 2 years.  There's got to be more on this story regarding some deeper illicit activities, and most likely tax evasion on a grand scale  (which, does not matter whether you're selling bitcoins or shit on ebay...you'll eventually get hit)

[seriouscoin]

Also, hes known to be involved in the Ponzi run by Pirate. At the time, he thought bitcoin was just funny monopoly money. He also knew full well its a ponzi (who wouldnt) but he still run a passthrough. That alone would make me never trust him.

I'm very clear about ethics. Thats why i dont even support signature campaign on this forums because most of them are scamming businesses. Making merely 0.1 a month to help the scammers? fuck no

[moni3z]

Trendon Shavers fallout. The feds like to turn one case into as many as possible, there's probably emails between the two they saw while building the ponzi charges so they grabbed him as well. 35 fed agents is overkill for a petty localbitcoins sting.

[wunkbone]

Trendon Shavers fallout. The feds like to turn one case into as many as possible, there's probably emails between the two they saw while building the ponzi charges so they grabbed him as well. 35 fed agents is overkill for a petty localbitcoins sting.

I don't think it has anything to do with the ponzi passthrough he was running. It was not mentioned in the indictment. They wouldn't have even needed to raid his house to get evidence against him for this anyway.

[commandrix]

WOW. No wonder he was absent from here for months. It must have been a sting operation.

And he was raving about how safe it was dealing with face to face cash transactions, and how he does it all the time :/

Yeah, I think I remember him. Wasn't he the guy who went on and on about selling $100 worth of Bitcoin to some black man? I am sorry that he got caught.

[bitcoin_bagholder]

WOW. No wonder he was absent from here for months. It must have been a sting operation.

And he was raving about how safe it was dealing with face to face cash transactions, and how he does it all the time :/

Yeah, I think I remember him. Wasn't he the guy who went on and on about selling $100 worth of Bitcoin to some black man? I am sorry that he got caught.

I don't get it. He had never seen a black person before?

[tokeweed]

feds really serious about ordinary (but brilliant) people messing with their monopoly of money.  i say keep making those altcoins.  give the powers that be one giant headache.

this documentary about money and economics is a must watch for bitcoiners and altcoiners...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8bfTjp6Xw0&app=desktop

[saddambitcoin]

WOW. No wonder he was absent from here for months. It must have been a sting operation.

And he was raving about how safe it was dealing with face to face cash transactions, and how he does it all the time :/

Yeah, I think I remember him. Wasn't he the guy who went on and on about selling $100 worth of Bitcoin to some black man? I am sorry that he got caught.

No, that was another guy.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=723474.msg8173470#msg8173470

[nikona]

He's out on bail and surrendered his passport. The latest motion of any consequence:
A 10-Day Jury Trial set for 5/4/2015 08:00 AM in Courtroom A 801 before Judge William J. Martinez

Thanks for the info.!

[b!z]

Due to the high correlation between bitcoin and law-abiding gun ownership libertarians/an-caps exercise the right to, I'm surprised they didn't shoot his dog or children in a no-knock raid.

media != real life

You realize policemen, federal agents etc. are just ordinary men and women like you and me, right? If they were all coldblooded killers like the media would like us to believe, the United States would be a very different country...