Calling you forth, Coinographic

[smoothie]

Well we're all assuming things. What we know for sure is that communication was/is horrible. Business fail and maybe so did theirs.

As long as I get my money back, may it be the equivalent worth in form of silver coins. I'm fine with it. IMO coinographic should be giving the preorderes a very fair price for thes 'refund' coins.

There is one thing for sure and that is they did lie about when they were going to payout bounties for their design contest, then they came out with the "cash flow" issue two weeks later.

I hope they give their customers a fair and decent deal on the conversion to LTC silver coins if they are indeed out of LTC/BTC to payout with.

[Jettison86]

Well we're all assuming things. What we know for sure is that communication was/is horrible. Business fail and maybe so did theirs.

As long as I get my money back, may it be the equivalent worth in form of silver coins. I'm fine with it. IMO coinographic should be giving the preorderes a very fair price for thes 'refund' coins.

There is one thing for sure and that is they did lie about when they were going to payout bounties for their design contest, then they came out with the "cash flow" issue two weeks later.

I hope they give their customers a fair and decent deal on the conversion to LTC silver coins if they are indeed out of LTC/BTC to payout with.

What...with his coins "at cost"?  Which means double or triple the face value.  LMAO!!!!  Unacceptable.

[iglasses]

reread this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=850724.0;all
and you will see there is nothing surprising about this at all.  The plan to steal as much money as possible before posting this bullshit story that was written months ago was in full force.
If Coingraphic has your money it's gone...more specifically, STOLEN.

How the fuck can they NOT have BTC sent to them to fund coins that they never sent?
It's all bullshit.

[smoothie]

Well we're all assuming things. What we know for sure is that communication was/is horrible. Business fail and maybe so did theirs.

As long as I get my money back, may it be the equivalent worth in form of silver coins. I'm fine with it. IMO coinographic should be giving the preorderes a very fair price for thes 'refund' coins.

There is one thing for sure and that is they did lie about when they were going to payout bounties for their design contest, then they came out with the "cash flow" issue two weeks later.

I hope they give their customers a fair and decent deal on the conversion to LTC silver coins if they are indeed out of LTC/BTC to payout with.

What...with his coins "at cost"?  Which means double or triple the face value.  LMAO!!!!  Unacceptable.

Yes I see your point and agree that 1 oz of silver at cost is $200 or something like that.

So to value the coins at $200 per ounce is way over priced.

Not sure but in the end it is his customers that will determine what they are happy with, not me, not him.

[smoothie]

reread this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=850724.0;all
and you will see there is nothing surprising about this at all.  The plan to steal as much money as possible before posting this bullshit story that was written months ago was in full force.
If Coingraphic has your money it's gone...more specifically, STOLEN.

How the fuck can they NOT have BTC sent to them to fund coins that they never sent?
It's all bullshit.

There were several things really wrong with the setup, one of which was the PREORDER model.

I never touch anything with a preorder model in place. 95+ percent of the time it ends in failure.

This was not a simple situation based on circumstances they could not control, it was incompetence coupled with mismanagement and a hint of deception (yes they did lie).

Yes it sounds harsh but that is the truth of the matter based on the facts that their own customers have posted as well as themselves in their excuses of why things happened the way they did.

In the end I hope every coinographic customer is made 100% whole in this debacle. That is what is most important.

[smoothie]

@Coinographic I believe you should have an open dialogue with your customers. This posting once in 2-4 weeks is simply unacceptable. People have sent you money for products you do not have or have and have not shipped or have not funded. People deserve a chance to get answers directly from you publicly. This open dialogue should also consist of people suggesting what their compensation for waiting should be plus what they paid you which they are still owed.

[miffman]

If they paid out in their coins but it was valued at silver spot+face value if loaded, then it should be okay. Silver and LTC is easy to turn into BTC.

[Jettison86]

If they paid out in their coins but it was valued at silver spot+face value if loaded, then it should be okay. Silver and LTC is easy to turn into BTC.

Yes agreed....  IF...!  But doubtful. 

[nicolasgramlich]

I am very curious what their current stock is. The 25 Bull and the 10 Chickun show 400+ coins available to order. Unsure how many they have in stock. Let shops its many...

I'm not exactly sure how much worth these coins have beyond the silver itself since this will always drag a shady story behind....

With silver spot being at $18 and given that it comes with the boxes etc I assume I'd be willing to accept to refund at $25/oz without pursuing legal action.

[monkeynuts]

I am very curious what their current stock is. The 25 Bull and the 10 Chickun show 400+ coins available to order. Unsure how many they have in stock. Let shops its many...

I'm not exactly sure how much worth these coins have beyond the silver itself since this will always drag a shady story behind....

With silver spot being at $18 and given that it comes with the boxes etc I assume I'd be willing to accept to refund at $25/oz without pursuing legal action.

Also their total list of liabilities. The creditors should have the assets split between then in the ratio of their outstanding value. We can't have it as first come first served, and last in the queue getting nothing

The value placed on the stock items will also be key

What I am not clear on is if this is a full repayment, just in kind rather than as ordered, or partial payment

Strangely with the global nature of sales. Coinigraphic will also need to take shipping costs into account

I need to check all of my coingraphic coins to check they were all funded as advised before the stampede starts

[smoothie]

The public was led to believe that Coinographic had already put the bitcoin designs into production long ago (since early November I believe).

If they actually did put them into production why can't they still operate their business?

If they are having people prepay before the coins get made then they should still be able to take a cut (for profit) and send the rest to the mint to have the coins made.

Not sure where they "can't" continue operation.

This should be explained by them as it is now sounding more like a ponzi type situation where they took in customer orders and robbed peter to pay paul and now they are short on funds to fill existing orders and fund coins or pay design contest bounties.

Supposedly their investor pulled out. But if the investor did that in the end of november they should have already started the 2 BTC 2 oz gold coin production so the investor would not be able to pull out completely as they have funds tied up in the company.

The way this is all transpiring is starting create more questions than it answers.

[Mart9275]

We have no intention of leaving our customers that pre-ordered or have outstanding issues with orders out of pocket. 

Whilst we are unable to issue refunds in digital currency, we are able to issue refunds in stock from our Litecoin collection.

Hi Mark,

Martin here. I assume this goes for me as well. I hate to call you out in public like this in these sad times, but since you have been ignoring my mails for many weeks now you leave me with no choice.

So please PM or mail me ASAP.

Thanks.

[cyclops]

Guys, I've been waiting for a coin to be funded for a few weeks now. So as Smoothie said I just checked my other 25 LTC coin, I got that one around october 2014 and guess what, although I have an email confirming it has been funded. There are no LTC in that address!

This is really sketchy, and I am really annoyed about this matter; I paid for funded coins so I want my coins to be so.

[smoothie]

Guys, I've been waiting for a coin to be funded for a few weeks now. So as Smoothie said I just checked my other 25 LTC coin, I got that one around october 2014 and guess what, although I have an email confirming it has been funded. There are no LTC in that address!

This is really sketchy, and I am really annoyed about this matter; I paid for funded coins so I want my coins to be so.

This begs the question if they have been running a fractional reserve (ponzi) operation for some time?

I can't imagine why they would not have funded coins back in October 2014 other than they were hoping to get more orders to pay Paul (you) with Peter's (new customer) money.

There is at least a handful of customers that have stated publicly or privately to me that they have coinographic coins that are not funded for some time.

[miffman]

I'm basically calling anything I haven't received from them as a loss. If they fix it, then it's recovered bad debt. I too am waiting on funding.

[Mart9275]

Hi,

If Mark owes you money as well, please help to shed some light on how big this whole thing is:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=942255.0

Thanks.

[smoothie]

reposting:

This is a warning to the community against buying anything from Coinographic ( http://www.coinographic.com/ ) !!!

Mark (the owner) has posted on this forum that he is closing down his company ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938192.msg10291741#msg10291741 ), but he has not yet taken down his website where one can still buy his coins. It seems that he has run out of money and that he can neither deliver all the coins that people have already ordered or even just refund the money.

And as if that isn't bad enough in itself, some customers are now coming forward and saying that coins they have bought and received back in October 2014 are NOT even funded with Litecoins though Mark claimed they were!

I have done design work for Mark and he owes me money as well. I can live with that, I only lost time and my good name by putting it on the products of Marks fraudulent company. But I would hate to see people still pay and buy coins that they will clearly never receive. Damn I wish I had known that I wasn't the only person he owed money so this could have been brought to light earlier and maybe saved others from putting money in this black hole.

DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM COINOGRAPHIC!!!

If you have already bought and received coins from Coinographic please check to see if your coins are in fact funded or not. If not, or if you have pre-paid and not yet received anything, please report in this thread so we can start to get an idea of how much he actually owes people in the community and for how long he has been doing this.

Please post how much and for what he owes you.

I'll start. For designing and rendering he owes me:

- 1500 EUR in bitcoins
- One fully funded gold 1BTC coin (sold for 8.9978 BTC on his site)
- One fully funded silver 1BTC coin (sold for 2.4011 BTC on his site)

[Throwaway_Acc]

I've never ourchased Coinographic coins before, so this is just an outsider looking in.
Don't mean to kick a man when he's down, but he's lied multiple times since November as far as I can see.
Why would he suddenly be truthful now?

I remember one of his first contest in Litecointalk early or middle of last year.
One of the contestants was caught using a bank logo.
Mark privately okayed it in a PM and didn't ban the contestant until a few people called him out on it.
Looking back, I guess that is a strong indicator that he was not in this for the long haul.

[IronMarvel]

I ordered a 25 ltc bull coin on the 09th of december. Did not receive anything until now.
Last update he sent me was this:

Hi,

Your coin is currently at the hallmarking office.  As soon as we receive it back we will post it to you.  Its a little delayed because of the Christmas break.

Thank you

and this:

Hi,

Your order number is 235.  You can keep track of the status from here -

192bf9a5cb5e538ff3f092da8b4f7c8ef45d516285b9a3e882d82057ac4">http://www.coinographic.com/vieworder?a04315ff5621fbd60352e0edd3a2a29fbfd1574c99b1010c0bcea8e21538d0161950226610a9050 192bf9a5cb5e538ff3f092da8b4f7c8ef45d516285b9a3e882d82057ac4


We should have the coins back and in the post to you by the end of next week

Thank you

IF they have the silver litecoin coins in stock as he said, why are they not sending out mine?? I dont believe, that they have anything in stock!!!

[smoothie]

I ordered a 25 ltc bull coin on the 09th of december. Did not receive anything until now.
Last update he sent me was this:

Hi,

Your coin is currently at the hallmarking office.  As soon as we receive it back we will post it to you.  Its a little delayed because of the Christmas break.

Thank you

and this:

Hi,

Your order number is 235.  You can keep track of the status from here -

192bf9a5cb5e538ff3f092da8b4f7c8ef45d516285b9a3e882d82057ac4">http://www.coinographic.com/vieworder?a04315ff5621fbd60352e0edd3a2a29fbfd1574c99b1010c0bcea8e21538d0161950226610a9050 192bf9a5cb5e538ff3f092da8b4f7c8ef45d516285b9a3e882d82057ac4


We should have the coins back and in the post to you by the end of next week

Thank you

IF they have the silver litecoin coins in stock as he said, why are they not sending out mine?? I dont believe, that they have anything in stock!!!

I was under the impression that the hallmarking was done to all of the coins back at the end of summer.

Why send them only as the orders come in?

They have to be hallmarked anyway to sell them.

And yes it says the 25 ltc coin is in stock but some are waiting for their coin(s) still.