❢❢❢ The value proposition of each coin: BTC, DOGE, LTC, DRK, PPC, XRP, NXT, etc.

[ArticMine]

In a year from now BTC will have its own anon options with projects such as Coinjoin or Darkwallet which will make theses alts obsolete and pointless.

Nope Bitcoin won't have any of those because of their centralization and regulation of their currency.
If you speak with the Bitcoin Foundation then you will notice that they really don't like anonymity inside a currency

But if and this is a big if, Gavin Andresen and the Bitcoin Foundation get their way on the 1 MB blocksize issue Dark Wallet, can become a reality, regardless of their position on anonymity. If on the other hand the 1 MB blocksize limit remains in Bitcoin, Dark Wallet is doomed.

[1714493962]

1714493962

[1714493962]

1714493962

[1714493962]

1714493962

[1714493962]

1714493962

[stenkross]

I really enjoy the asset exchange on NXT platform, it's really an asset in it self.
Also the speed the devs pump out new features is just ridiculous, pity they seem to lack the PR many of the other coins have, if they had it, I'd guess the value would increase drasticly.

[azguard]

Guys calm down. When Ethereum joins the game, almost all coins will be obsolete. So no sense in discussing wether LTC/DOGE or DRK/MON is better, they are all doomed.

is this coin still have some support

[WX_Gunny]

Guys calm down. When Ethereum joins the game, almost all coins will be obsolete.

nice try to advertise

[illodin]

Guys calm down. When Ethereum joins the game, almost all coins will be obsolete.

nice try to advertise

Well they kind of have to. Everyone who ever wanted Ethereum bought as much as they could at the IPO, so when the markets open, we have an interesting situation. A lot of people with huge bags of Ether, and a lot of people who don't care about Ether.

[Q7]

With everything in your list, I still think only doge is worthwhile to hold on to. Yeah, it's a clone all right with nothing new in terms of technology but don't forget, crypto is all about the community. It's the support of the people that gives it value.

[allwelder]

Nxt is a next big thing like BTC

[b!z]

You should add Stellar to the list.

[vertoe]

As a Darkcoin Core developer I want to take the chance and comment on some claims made in this thread. First of all I agree with everyone claiming there is no perfect solution yet. Dark wallet, Shared coin, Coin shuffle, Monero and, no, not even Darkcoin are perfect yet. Everyone claiming his solution is perfect, is simply trying to catch investors. But let me comment on some technical claims which I can prove wrong.

"Coinjoin is proved broken."
> Yes and no. The origininal idea of coinjoin was flawed in finding other people who want to send coins, to mix them just-in-time and broadcast them to the network. This is indeed broken, as it is very simple to simply match inputs, outputs and timestemps to track back transactions through the blockchain.

"Darkcoin is implementing a broken Coinjoin."
> No. This statement is reaching back to a time in the beginning of 2014 where Darkcoin was using just-in-time-coinjoin to create Darksend transactions. This system was poor implemented, hard to use (hardly found people to mix with) and - indeed - broken. But in may 2014 evan duffield introduced a totally new approach by implementing ahead-of-time mixing. You simply leave your wallet open and mix with other clients coins, you can do that 2 times, 4 times, 16 times, just mix your coins as much as you want. And as soon as you wish to send a transaction, your coins are already completely premixed and untracable. This is no magic and working with the darkcoin core reference client for more than half a year now.

"Darkcoin is closed source."
> No. Darkcoin was open sourced in september 2014.

"Masternodes are centralized point of failure."
> No. Masternodes are equal nodes in a p2p network with a special dedicated purpose. They are as decentralized as any other p2p application. Everyone is able to set up a masternode anywhere he likes. All you need is a 1000 DRK input to start the node, this is required to avoid the network getting attacked by massive amounts of vulnerable nodes. Currently there are around 2000 darkcoin masternodes running and securing the network, they are operated by alot of different users all over the world. Its a decentralized p2p network within the main darkcoin p2p network.

"Darkcoin does not provide anonymity."
> Yes and no. Darkcoin on its own is no stand-alone application for perfect privacy. Use it with caution, combine it with TOR, I2P, use OTR and PGP, and most important, stop using Windows. If you want true anonymity you will have to turn your live upside down. Darkcoin is a good contribution for transaction obfuscation and blockchain based privacy, but its not the proposed general problem solver. It's important to keep that in mind.


And now back to topic. Here are my comments on other coins.

LTC
> It's technically indeed a worthless clone. I personally dont see any point in why the world needs yet another coin. And I stopped believing in LTC after the devs said they dont need any new innovation. Sorry to see this big community going down the drain. Positive is that the huge team of developers and the old and big community contributed a lot of things which are also valuable for Bitcoin and the whole cryptocoin scene.

DOGE
> Was bringing cryptocoins to the masses. Using common memes and implemented as micropayment system it was indeed innovative, not technically, but in the scope of applications it was aiming at and developing for. The community of DOGE was awesome, and I think it will last some more time. But I cant predict how long. Technically, Dogecoin core is worthless, but keep in mind all the applications outside the core implementation built by the community again contributed alot to the cryptocoin scene.

PPC
> The only Proof-of-Stake coin that really lasted on the markets. It was technically ahead of its time and innovative. Not sure what the future will bring. Never heard anything new from that community after the primecoin launch (shows how innovative the PPC guys are!).

NMC
> I loved the coin from the beginning, but not sure if it will ever take off with it concept of a decentralized domain system. Its a great, innovative concept and by far ahead of its time again. I hope it will succeed in the long run.

[iCEBREAKER]

XMR.
- Anonymity. Does it work? What are your experiences with it?
- We already have Darkcoin, with 10x the volume.
- If Darkcoin is actually broken, then this is the anonymous coin winner.

XMR provides not only anonymity but unlinkability as well.  I've used it; it works great.  The CLI is old school, but now there's a web wallet at MyMonero.

Unlike XMR, Darkcoin is not intrinsically anonymous or unlinkable.  Darkcoin isn't intrinsically anything; it's just a brand name for a constantly mutating project with nothing under the hood but lofty goals and high hopes.

XMR uses ring signatures and stealth addresses in a brilliant cryptographically proven schema that secures privacy at the protocol level.

Darkcoin relies on features external to its dated Bitcoin/Peercoin-based protocol, such as Masternodes, in various attempts to build a privacy-producing Rube Goldberg machine, complete with shell games and other gimmicks.

XMR has never radically changed its privacy technology, and will probably never need to (especially once I2P, which provides for network-level privacy, is in integrated).

Darkcoin is locked in an eternal arms race with better blockchain analysis constantly threatening to unravel its secrets and reveal all previous transactions.

Every computer security expert knows 'security in obscurity' is a bad idea.  Apparently the Dark devs (and fanboys) didn't get that memo, as they continue to design ever more complicated mixers in a futile attempt to attain the level of perfect obfuscation XMR has enjoyed all along!

[kelsey]

LTC
. And I stopped believing in LTC after the devs said they dont need any new innovation.

the main reason its now got my support, prior i was a litecoin troll. finally devs that actually understand the 'currency' part of cryptos. equally shows their regard for maintaining the trustless system (but that'd be lost on most the alt 'innovation' to sell the latest pump n dump crowd).

[HCLivess]

-It does not take a few hours to go though all coins
-Etehreum will be highly inflationary, but applications on it will have real value

[toknormal]

nlike XMR, Darkcoin is not intrinsically anonymous or unlinkable.  Darkcoin isn't intrinsically anything; it's just a brand name for a constantly mutating project......Apparently the Dark devs (and fanboys) didn't get that memo, as they continue to design ever more complicated mixers in a futile attempt to attain the level of perfect obfuscation XMR has enjoyed all along!

What a lot of unadulterated garbage.

You people seem incapable of participating in any discussion at all without throwing your toys out of the pram over Darkcoin.

[cassini]

NMC
> I loved the coin from the beginning, but not sure if it will ever take off with it concept of a decentralized domain system. Its a great, innovative concept and by far ahead of its time again. I hope it will succeed in the long run.

As for the decentralized domain name feature (.bit) we expect wider adoption not before a useable light client is available. A server-independent 1-click-install solution for the full client wouldn't hurt either. (Developers and enthusiasts, any takers?)

However, Namecoin is already in use for decentralized id systems:

• NameID
• Bitmessage human-readable names (related to NameID)
• onename.io

Main development activity at this moment: transition to Namecoin Core, i.e. the reimplementation of Namecoin on top of the current Bitcoin Core codebase, see https://github.com/domob1812/namecore

[iCEBREAKER]

nlike XMR, Darkcoin is not intrinsically anonymous or unlinkable.  Darkcoin isn't intrinsically anything; it's just a brand name for a constantly mutating project......Apparently the Dark devs (and fanboys) didn't get that memo, as they continue to design ever more complicated mixers in a futile attempt to attain the level of perfect obfuscation XMR has enjoyed all along!

What a lot of unadulterated garbage.

You people seem incapable of participating in any discussion at all without throwing your toys out of the pram over Darkcoin.

How many times has Darkcoin ripped out its guts and replaced them with a New & Improved, This-Time-For-Sure version, when the existing tech proved to be trivial to de-obfuscate and therefore worthless?

Was it three or four times?  I lost count after the CoinJoin fiasco.  You do realize that the more complicated and convoluted the Dark network becomes, the more delicate it also is?

And where is DyslecticZombie?  He's been gone since one of his "upgraded" MadoffNodes ate a few thousand of his hapless investor's coins!  Those constant hard forks are such a bother.  Good thing we don't have them in Monero!

Don't be jealous that every Monero node can effortlessly accomplish what the entire silly MadoffNode mixing/shuffling/juggling/breakdancing network cannot!   Join us... 

[tokeweed]

So I've narrowed down the infinite list of coins to just these: BTC, DOGE, LTC, DRK, PPC, XRP, NXT, NMC, XMR as "probably not a scamcoin and possibly not a waste of your time". Now, I'd like to figure out the value proposition of each coin. I don't know much about altcoins -- please comment below with the pros and cons of each of these coins. (Date: 2015-01-28.)

BTC. No explanation needed. The first. With the bulk of the market cap. (85%? That's actually lower than I thought it was!)

DOGE.
- Great community. Is that worth anything? Any software they produce can be changed to use BTC.
- Technologically, it's just a clone, meaning it's worthless.
- Has the second highest volume after BTC, making it easy to trade. Maybe people who want to stay in crypto but want to get out of BTC get into DOGE? As pegged crypto (like bitUSD) spreads, this advantage of DOGE will diminish.

LTC.
- Worthless clone.
- Used to have second highest volume. (See DOGE, above.) Now, even that tiny advantage is gone.
- Dead?

DRK.
- OK, now we're getting to something different. Completely anonymous, untracable transactions. This is worth a lot. This is what people think bitcoin has but it doesn't. If bitcoin had this, it would be worth a lot more.
- How well does the anonymous transaction thing actually work? I'd love to hear people's experiences with using Darkcoin.
- Broken architecture?

PPC.
- The first Proof of Stake coin. First mover advantage. Most liquid PoS coin.
- What are your experiences with PPC? Does the wallet have to be open to mine?
- There are now other PoS coins. And there's an improvement on PoS - DPoS. I feel like if PoS will succeed, it will move in the direction of DPoS, meaning bitshares.

XRP.
- Ripple is a completely different approach to crypto than bitcoin.
- Frankly, I don't understand enough about it. Please educate me. Premining, centralization (how much centralization is there?) seem like big turnoffs. Yet, it's somehow got the second highest market cap and it's done pretty well versus BTC.

NXT.
- First(?) "bitcoin 2.0". Most liquid 2.0 coin. First mover advantage.
- PoS, wallet must be unlocked to mine?
- I'd love to hear people's experiences with this.
- How does it stack up against other 2.0 coins?
- People say good things about it.

NMC.
- Namecoin - oldie but goodie. Very innovative for its time.
- I can't believe it is still around. Does anyone actually use ".bit" domains? Is there other data stored in namecoin?
- How many domain registrations are needed to increase the price by some amount?

XMR.
- Anonymity. Does it work? What are your experiences with it?
- We already have Darkcoin, with 10x the volume.
- If Darkcoin is actually broken, then this is the anonymous coin winner.

Honorable mention (BTS).
- A few times while writing this, I was thinking that Bitshares does the same thing only better. BTS is not on my list because its volume is tiny. What do you think about BTS? Pros and cons? Is liquidity an issue? How do you trade a coin with $5k volume?
- Apparently, BTS/CNY has the volume. I was only looking at BTS/BTC before.
- Great 2.0 coin.
- Love the DPoS idea.
- If the pegged assets work, that will add value to BTS (and remove value from something like DOGE).
- Don't know much more about it. Please educate me.

Based on this quick and preliminary review, here are my conclusions. Again, please comment with pros and cons of each coin. I'm sure I missed something.

Value.
- Bitcoin
- Darkcoin or Monero?
- Bitshares?

Possible value.
- Peercoin
- Ripple
- Nxt
- Namecoin

No value.
- Dogecoin
- Litecoin

fundamental analysis don't apply in crypto-currencies.  not until warren buffet invests in them..  then maybe.

[toknormal]

How many times has Darkcoin ripped out its guts and replaced them with a New & Improved, This-Time-For-Sure version.....

You're the first person I've ever come across to characterise DRK's evolution as directionless. You're entitled to your opinion obviously, but I don't share it. During 2 years of being in and out of a gazillion coins (including Monero) Darkcoin probably has the most focused development effort I've been associated with. I think your just characterising it this way because it suits your agenda.

You do realize that the more complicated and convoluted the Dark network becomes, the more delicate it also is?

Yes, except it isn't more "complicated and convoluted". The mixing technology has actually become more generalised and consistent with each successive release. In particular, with pre-emptive mixing the network has adopted a universal approach that decouples it from needing to 'piggy back' the transaction. That's a huge advantage.

Don't be jealous that every Monero node can effortlessly accomplish what the entire silly MadoffNode mixing/shuffling/juggling/breakdancing network cannot!   Join us...  

w.t.f. are you talking about ? Why would I be jealous when it's 5 times easier for a Dark holder to hedge themselves against Monero than the other way around ? For each unit of DRK's marketcap I can have 5 of Monero's for the same cost.

Regarding your last remark, if you really think it's such a great idea to have the obfuscation technology welded to transmission code, wait to see how that pans out when it comes to adoption. Your arguments might be entertaining but they're also clueless IMO.

[iCEBREAKER]

How many times has Darkcoin ripped out its guts and replaced them with a New & Improved, This-Time-For-Sure version.....

You're the first person I've ever come across to characterise DRK's evolution as directionless. You're entitled to your opinion obviously, but I don't share it. During 2 years of being in and out of a gazillion coins (including Monero) Darkcoin probably has the most focused development effort I've been associated with. I think your just characterising it this way because it suits your agenda.

You do realize that the more complicated and convoluted the Dark network becomes, the more delicate it also is?

Yes, except it isn't more "complicated and convoluted". The mixing technology has actually become more generalised and consistent with each successive release. In particular, with pre-emptive mixing the network has adopted a universal approach that decouples it from needing to 'piggy back' the transaction. That's a huge advantage.

Don't be jealous that every Monero node can effortlessly accomplish what the entire silly MadoffNode mixing/shuffling/juggling/breakdancing network cannot!   Join us...  

w.t.f. are you talking about ? Why would I be jealous when it's 5 times easier for a Dark holder to hedge themselves against Monero than the other way around ? For each unit of DRK's marketcap I can have 5 of Monero's for the same cost.

Regarding your last remark, if you really think it's such a great idea to have the obfuscation technology welded to transmission code, wait to see how that pans out when it comes to adoption. Your arguments might be entertaining but they're also clueless IMO.

You ignored and danced around my very direct and pertinent question:

How many times has Darkcoin ripped out its guts and replaced them with a New & Improved, This-Time-For-Sure version?

I never said Dark is "directionless."  That's the wrong word to put in my mouth.

Like the Tower of Babel, Dark clearly has a direction and goal in mind.  But it can't get there from here.  That's why Evan said he will someday use ring signatures!

It is hubris to think that a better (*cough* messier *cough*) obfuscation mousetrap will ever reach the cryptographic nirvana of Monero's ring signatures and stealth addresses.

You still don't get my point, so I'll make it simple:  Monero doesn't use obfuscating mixers, and Darkcoin does.

Best of luck with that "pre-emptive mixing" bollocks.  You'll need it!  Occam's Razor will not be mocked.   

[illodin]

obfuscating mixers

What do you mean when referring to "obfuscation" exactly in this context?

DRK removes the link between the money you receive and the money you send. If you call that obfuscation, then ok I guess.

[vertoe]

Guys stop going offtopic. Create a new thread if you want to discuss XMR vs DRK.