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Question: Bitcoin fork proposal by respected Bitcoin lead dev Gavin Andresen, to increase the block size from 1MB to 20MB.
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Author Topic: Bitcoin 20MB Fork  (Read 154258 times)
DivineEruptus
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March 16, 2015, 08:15:15 PM
 #2461

I suggest  1GB blocks.
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DooMAD
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March 16, 2015, 08:51:26 PM
 #2462

Why even debate about this, still? Just do the fork at some point in the future (maybe even depending on a dynamic measure when to switch) and see if the majority opts for the new chain. It's Bitcoin's democracy in action - in its purest form!

Truth be told, there's not a huge amount of point in debating it because it needs to happen.  But the fork probably won't be ready until June at the earliest, so all we can do at the moment is debate, heh.  Plus it's fun to watch the anti-forkers back themselves into a corner and then try to slither out of it like the slippery, venomous snakes they are.   Grin

We agree that something needs to happen.  Whether this is "it" is debatable.

If you have an alternative, then get to work making it a reality.  There's no point in saying "what about this, that or the other" if your solution isn't working, viable and ready to go.  If you get it working and it's better than what Gavin is proposing, people will go with it.  Until that happens, you've basically got nothing.  

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March 16, 2015, 09:42:34 PM
Last edit: March 16, 2015, 10:36:20 PM by solex
 #2463

I suggest  1GB blocks.

Why so shy ?
Gavin is proposing 1,4 GB blocks. He's chief scientist. He knows better than you !

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CuOEM9uwO5w-RwWGCCZpVGVFwhHHHegxJZqTP5KyapI/edit?usp=sharing


In 20 years!
No problem, unless of course you think computing technology will stand still until then. Are both these flattening off, as of 2010?


http://www.futuretimeline.net/subject/computers-internet.htm


http://www.nngroup.com/articles/law-of-bandwidth/

danielpbarron
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March 17, 2015, 02:35:15 AM
 #2464

It's a no brainer for Bitcoin future

if it don't work,well Bitcoin was not meant to be

but if it does without a hitch, Bitcoin can be changed with confidence

a necessary tick box,like it or not  Grin

I'm more concerned with what the tick box says than whether there is one.
Perhaps the grandest virtue of a consensus system is the mechanism of agreement, rather than voting.  Excellent proposals find consensus a fairly simple matter, for there is not much debate with incontrovertible quality.

Allow me to translate from fed-speak: "Showing that Gavin is in control of bitcoin is a necessary tick box. It doesn't matter what the change is, so long as he is the one who makes it happen. That way, we (the U.S. Government) can kill bitcoin."

Consensus among poor people may have been a thing when bitcoin wasn't yet real money, but it isn't a thing any longer. Now bitcoin changes you. To resist the force of bitcoin is to resist the force of gravity. You can vote on the constant of acceleration all you want, but you'll still go splat when you hit the ground at terminal velocity.



No problem, unless of course you think computing technology will stand still until then. Are both these flattening off, as of 2010?

The scale varies so much, it's hard to tell what's going on in those graphs.

Quote from: Mark Twain
Figures often beguile me, particularly when I have the arranging of them myself; in which case the remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."

Marriage is a permanent bond (or should be) between a man and a woman. Scripture reveals a man has the freedom to have this marriage bond with more than one woman, if he so desires. But, anything beyond this is a perversion. -- Darwin Fish
RoadStress
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March 17, 2015, 03:06:13 AM
 #2465

Allow me to translate from fed-speak: "Showing that Gavin is in control of bitcoin is a necessary tick box. It doesn't matter what the change is, so long as he is the one who makes it happen. That way, we (the U.S. Government) can kill bitcoin."

Consensus among poor people may have been a thing when bitcoin wasn't yet real money, but it isn't a thing any longer. Now bitcoin changes you. To resist the force of bitcoin is to resist the force of gravity. You can vote on the constant of acceleration all you want, but you'll still go splat when you hit the ground at terminal velocity.

What's going on in your elite IRC channel? I feel that we are missing some important stuff since you aren't quoting it anymore!

H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622998.0
hdbuck
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March 17, 2015, 03:29:07 AM
 #2466

people here dont have any 'power' over bitcoin. if the fork should have happened it would already have. thing is.. it just wont.
danielpbarron
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March 17, 2015, 03:58:44 AM
 #2467

What's going on in your elite IRC channel?

You can read it here, or join it here.

Marriage is a permanent bond (or should be) between a man and a woman. Scripture reveals a man has the freedom to have this marriage bond with more than one woman, if he so desires. But, anything beyond this is a perversion. -- Darwin Fish
R2D221
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March 17, 2015, 05:27:17 AM
 #2468

if the fork should have happened it would already have

You claim this based on what?

An economy based on endless growth is unsustainable.
Mikestang
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March 17, 2015, 05:29:26 AM
 #2469

if the fork should have happened it would already have

If it needed to happen it would already have; should or should not is what all the fuss is about.
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March 17, 2015, 06:23:40 AM
 #2470

Can you tell me where I can order that 100 MBPS your "law" promised to me two years ago ?
I live in a small town and my house has only a 4 km long copper line.
There is no reason to believe optic fiber will be delivered to me within 15 years.

The future is already here — it's just not very evenly distributed
— William Gibson

An economy based on endless growth is unsustainable.
solex
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March 17, 2015, 07:10:41 AM
Last edit: March 17, 2015, 07:20:46 AM by solex
 #2471

Can you tell me where I can order that 100 MBPS your "law" promised to me two years ago ?
I live in a small town and my house has only a 4 km long copper line.
There is no reason to believe optic fiber will be delivered to me within 15 years.

The future is already here — it's just not very evenly distributed
— William Gibson

True.

Some people have fiber available years before others, so the graph is very much an average with wide variation for individuals. Huge numbers of Bitcoin companies will be in locations where high-speed fiber is present. For people with poor internet service there should eventually be an alternative: satellite broadcasting of transactions and blocks, as per Jeff Garzik's bitsats proposal. Start listening from 42 mins (although it is all interesting, Jeff comes in at 24 min): https://decentralize.fm/shows/episode-21-jeff-garzik


cbeast
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March 17, 2015, 07:12:35 AM
 #2472

Can you tell me where I can order that 100 MBPS your "law" promised to me two years ago ?
I live in a small town and my house has only a 4 km long copper line.
There is no reason to believe optic fiber will be delivered to me within 15 years.

The future is already here — it's just not very evenly distributed
— William Gibson
ghdp probably lives in a region where land doesn't cost a million per acre. Everything is a trade-off.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
davout
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March 17, 2015, 08:45:29 AM
 #2473

Everything is a trade-off.

Sure, so what's the trade-off for allowing micropayments and reddit's tipping on the primary chain?

cbeast
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March 17, 2015, 08:53:42 AM
 #2474

Everything is a trade-off.

Sure, so what's the trade-off for allowing micropayments and reddit's tipping on the primary chain?
Bitcoin is ideal for that if you use payment channels. I'm not sure why they aren't doing that right now.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
davout
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March 17, 2015, 09:02:18 AM
 #2475

Everything is a trade-off.

Sure, so what's the trade-off for allowing micropayments and reddit's tipping on the primary chain?
Bitcoin is ideal for that if you use payment channels. I'm not sure why they aren't doing that right now.

Because micro-channels are only for recurring micro-payments that can be aggregated to a bigger one later. It's a small subset of micro-payments, certainly not the general case.

Now if you'd please answer the original question.

cbeast
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March 17, 2015, 09:21:41 AM
 #2476

ghdp probably lives in a region where land doesn't cost a million per acre. Everything is a trade-off.

Sure, so what's the trade-off for allowing micropayments and reddit's tipping on the primary chain?
Bitcoin is ideal for that if you use payment channels. I'm not sure why they aren't doing that right now.

Because micro-channels are only for recurring micro-payments that can be aggregated to a bigger one later. It's a small subset of micro-payments, certainly not the general case.

Now if you'd please answer the original question.
Micro-channels are also for single payments. Tipping is also recurring. You are simply biased as to their direction. Think of tipping like leaving money on the table. You have to trust that the busboy doesn't swipe it before the server. Pushing settlements forward reduces mining fees and the occasional small single tip is made up in micro-channel fees.

I fixed your omitted context. Your question doesn't have a trade-off. Different topics.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
davout
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March 17, 2015, 09:30:55 AM
 #2477

Micro-channels are also for single payments. Tipping is also recurring. You are simply biased as to their direction. Think of tipping like leaving money on the table. You have to trust that the busboy doesn't swipe it before the server. Pushing settlements forward reduces mining fees and the occasional small single tip is made up in micro-channel fees.

That doesn't make much sense...
But hey, if you feel like avoiding answering the question of what the trade-off of a bigger chain is, I can't really force you.

cbeast
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March 17, 2015, 10:13:35 AM
 #2478

Micro-channels are also for single payments. Tipping is also recurring. You are simply biased as to their direction. Think of tipping like leaving money on the table. You have to trust that the busboy doesn't swipe it before the server. Pushing settlements forward reduces mining fees and the occasional small single tip is made up in micro-channel fees.

That doesn't make much sense...
But hey, if you feel like avoiding answering the question of what the trade-off of a bigger chain is, I can't really force you.
check out lightning payment channels and it will make sense.  It allows you to have every global transaction on a 3mb isp. Tips too.. That's not big like you claim.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
Agestorzrxx
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March 17, 2015, 10:29:55 AM
 #2479

When the block size increased  to 20M, how many people will run the full node?
The whole block chain will big enough, that average people will not run the full node.
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March 17, 2015, 10:35:30 AM
Last edit: March 17, 2015, 12:45:51 PM by sardokan
 #2480

I dont see Chinese or Brazilian miners mining with satellite gigabyte connection any time soon.
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