[ANN] SpreadCoin | True Decentralization (No Pools) | Testing New Masternodes

[thelonecrouton]

Maybe that is really the reason for all the FUDing in the other thread, some ruthless pool operators plan on running away with miners money

Nope, nowhere near enough money at stake. No, the real danger is that the approach proves basically successful and then gets adopted by other cryptocurrencies, in particular Bitcoin.

Cheers

Graham

I agree. The Bitcoin pooled mining / cloud mining / ASIC manufacturer ecosystem is big business (in the context of cryptocurrencies anyway ) and they don't want their income threatened by an approach that returns mining to it's original purpose. Spread's model doesn't do or claim to do - nor should it try - anything about large individual hashpower, but it certainly makes it a lot harder for middlemen to leech profits from the whole enterprise.

You can make money with Spread if that is your goal, but to do so you need to actually support the currency with a longer term commitment than people to whom the word 'commitment' is an alien concept have the attention span for.

[georgem]

"getting rid of middlemen" is another definition of "decentralization".

Nice.

[girino]

What's you're definition of a pool?

Well, quite. Finally someone nails the key issue. The FUD posters want to redefine the term “pool” into private/public. It's being used by them as a spoiling tactic but there is a stronger argument to be made for the “No pools” statement:

The principles underpinning cryptocurrency are complex and technical. This technical complexity is often (ab)used to mislead those with a shallow understanding of the principles. Spreadcoin's technical solution for rendering conventional poolmining uneconomic can be abused by unscrupulous operators to lure those with shallow models into joining pools and mining coins that are subsequently stolen from them by the means explicitly enabled in the solution.

As a consequence, the tl;dr message cannot be anything other than the simplistic: “No pools”. It needs to make people think twice about any offer of commercial or private syndicated mining of SPR.


Cheers

Graham

You can avoid the "what is a pool?" dilema by changing "no pools" to "solo mining only", since "private" pools are analogous to solo mining. But they would probably make a fuss about the wording anyhow. If you really want to make sure that everything is covered, keep the "no pool" in the title and just bellow it throw an explanation of what "no pools" means. Somethink like:

[ANN] SpreadCoin | True Decentralization (No Pools**) | Testing New Masternodes

** By "no pools", we mean that pools are economically unprofitable since any miner can steal the mined coins (link to FAQ or whitepaper). There is no way to avoid anyone setting up a pool, but they will be constantly loosing money. So please, do not post claims of "i made a pool and proved you wrong": you are misinterpreting the meaning of "no pools", as explained above.

[georgem]

Maybe that is really the reason for all the FUDing in the other thread, some ruthless pool operators plan on running away with miners money

Nope, nowhere near enough money at stake. No, the real danger is that the approach proves basically successful and then gets adopted by other cryptocurrencies, in particular Bitcoin.

I see, it really threatens a whole "guild" of crypto professions.
But that's what decentralization does, getting rid of unneeded middlemen and bloodsuckers.

[girino]

Maybe that is really the reason for all the FUDing in the other thread, some ruthless pool operators plan on running away with miners money

Nope, nowhere near enough money at stake. No, the real danger is that the approach proves basically successful and then gets adopted by other cryptocurrencies, in particular Bitcoin.

Cheers

Graham

I agree. The Bitcoin pooled mining / cloud mining / ASIC manufacturer ecosystem is big business (in the context of cryptocurrencies anyway ) and they don't want their income threatened by an approach that returns mining to it's original purpose. Spread's model doesn't do or claim to do - nor should it try - anything about large individual hashpower, but it certainly makes it a lot harder for middlemen to leech profits from the whole enterprise.

You can make money with Spread if that is your goal, but to do so you need to actually support the currency with a longer term commitment than people to whom the word 'commitment' is an alien concept have the attention span for.

Yes, as i said in the other thread, pools act like "cartels", controlling the flow of money without controlling the actual production (mining). What we are eliminating here is the cartels (that are commonly considered a bad thing in free market systems), not the big players (those are considered ok in any free market system).

In the context of cryptocurrencies, cartels are even worse than in a regular market, since they need only control of 51% of the hashrate to control the whole market.

[georgem]

Interesting statement by Mr. Spread regarding "Pools and Disinformation on Bitcointalk"

http://spreadcointalk.org/index.php?topic=72.0

[donschoe]

Please dont go self-moderated. I had high hopes in this coin. Every coin in the altcoin section has to go through the rain of trolls, but as long as you are serious about it, you will survive out there. Now how should people trust SPR?

[georgem]

Please dont go self-moderated. I had high hopes in this coin. Every coin in the altcoin section has to go through the rain of trolls, but as long as you are serious about it, you will survive out there. Now how should people trust SPR?

Let's see what happens in 5 days, when Mr. Spread gets back.

I think it is his decision. If he wants to close the other thread then he shall do so.

[minerpage]

Please dont go self-moderated. I had high hopes in this coin. Every coin in the altcoin section has to go through the rain of trolls, but as long as you are serious about it, you will survive out there. Now how should people trust SPR?

There is a difference between "trolling" and what happened in the other thread... that was pure malicious destruction by repeating lies over and over without constructive argumentation by people who knew very well what they were doing...

[NoobKidOnTheBlock]

Please dont go self-moderated. I had high hopes in this coin. Every coin in the altcoin section has to go through the rain of trolls, but as long as you are serious about it, you will survive out there. Now how should people trust SPR?

I agree with this comment but also agree with George that it is in the end Mr. Spread's decision whether or not he closes the other thread but I have to admit that in all honesty that creating a new thread in my opinion has given the illusion that the trolls have won which again in my opinion doesn't help SpreadCoin out very much.  I mean SpreadCoin will survive fine with the coding abilities of Mr. Spread and when the FUD began all of you said that was a good sign for a coin because it showed that people were interested or fearful of that coin, but then we go off and start a new thread?  Just kind of seems contradicting of the previous comments I think.  But again it will completely be up to Mr. Spread on what he wants to do with the other thread in the end and all I hope is that this coin doesn't die out because I have a lot of faith in this project Cheers

[thelonecrouton]

Personally I feel that any day I don't have to wade through reams of dunce-babble is a win. Why suffer fools, what benefit does it bring? They can post whatever they like, elsewhere.

[MemoryShock]

Personally I feel that any day I don't have to wade through reams of dunce-babble is a win. Why suffer fools, what benefit does it bring? They can post whatever they like, elsewhere.

Exactly.  Spending page after page addressing posts from people who know how to twist logic more ways than an M Night Shyamalan movie is a waste of time.  They can do it amongst themselves elsewhere or discuss their concerns reasonably here.

[georgem]

Also, if the BCT moderators don't do the moderating, then we are forced to do it ourselves...

I mean how much more obvious can it be that we have veritable trolls who try to sabotage this coin?
They even registered all important usernames regarding "spreadcoin" and "spreadnodes" so they can hijack the meme, and spread the disinformation.
How much more obvious can it be than trolls who put disinformation in their signature???

I would have assumed that a BCT moderator would have recognized that by now and reacted accordingly.

But no, not yet. Let's see. Let's wait for Mr. Spread.

[njs811]

I'm not the best person to explain how noncepool is not a public pool and how SPR disincentivizes public pools.

Maybe if we change (no pools) to (no public pools), this may shut some fuders up.

A pool is a collective group of people mining a coin. Solo mining is one person (with or without several machines) mining a coin. As far as I can tell this is one guy with four machines mining the coin. Still solo mining.

[njs811]

As a consequence, the tl;dr message cannot be anything other than the simplistic: “No pools”. It needs to make people think twice about any offer of commercial or private syndicated mining of SPR.

That's an interesting way of looking at it.

"No pools" must be considered a WARNING, it's not merely a statement.

Maybe that is really the reason for all the FUDing in the other thread, some ruthless pool operators plan on running away with miners money, and they want people to think "Yes pools"!

Only a fool uses a pool.

[Youghoor]

Personally I feel that any day I don't have to wade through reams of dunce-babble is a win. Why suffer fools, what benefit does it bring? They can post whatever they like, elsewhere.

Exactly.  Spending page after page addressing posts from people who know how to twist logic more ways than an M Night Shyamalan movie is a waste of time.  They can do it amongst themselves elsewhere or discuss their concerns reasonably here.

They need to understand what needs to be done.

[thelonecrouton]

Who runs http://104.36.83.126/spreadcoin/ ?

I owe you a tip.

[njs811]

Creating a new thread may look weak for SPR in the here and now, but if 6 months from now people read the comments on the other thread it will cause long term destruction.  In the long term scheme of things it will be far more beneficial to look like a mature business who is constantly growing. What big investor would invest after reading the last thread?

[georgem]

Creating a new thread may look weak for SPR in the here and now, but if 6 months from now people read the comments on the other thread it will cause long term destruction.  In the long term scheme of things it will be far more beneficial to look like a mature business who is constantly growing. What big investor would invest after reading the last thread?

Yes, also let's motivate people to really pose the hard questions here in this thread. Let's show that we can have a deep discussion without calling anyone a "troll" immediately.
(I remember that in early april I myself was called a troll a few times in the darkcoin thread here... how could that happen???)

Maybe even make it our motto, to NOT call anyone a troll in this thread.
Instead just moderate the obvious saboteurs away, and just keep on talking to the people who don't yet understand spreadcoin.

[tacotime]

So, for a pool, I think what you would do is just have people send the BTC equivalent of one block's reward to the pool (which isn't much), then if the miner's steal the reward, the pool still retains their deposit so net miner gain is 0. You would have the miners themselves mine to their own pubkeyhashes, and you'd submit partial solutions to these blocks to the pool itself. When the miner gets a block, they would be given n many blocks to get the coinbase from their block to the pool to redistribute to the other miners. If they didn't return the reward to the pool, the pool would then just take their deposit and ban them.

So, I don't think there's a big issue with pooling, just a slightly more complicated implementation. There's a small associated cost with joining a pool, but it's not really much.