Next consumer model miner

[sidehack]

So someone working on the wiki just asked for BM1384 pictures. Guess I'll have to do that tomorrow then. Also I think we have enough info to start work on a test single-chip board to start getting software ironed out. After that it's only a few stages to a test string/matrix and a working full design. Tomorrow will be a miner day (tentatively named the TypeZero) but after that I'll have to get back to the inline regulator project (tentatively named the Chuckwagon) because the prototype's been overdue for weeks because of various "this doesn't work, what the heck", "where did our R&D budget go" and "being really busy sucks" type problems. But progress is being made.

One of these days I'll start an actual dev thread for the TypeZero, and one of these days I'll have a Chuckwagon prototype for Philipma to play with. Only been promising him one since about Christmas.

But if what we want to do is possible (and affordable, and we get enough money to actually make a batch) we'd be looking at what amounts to an S1 Upgrade kit to the tune of 1.3TH <600W, which can software-underclock/volt (using cgminer flags) to a 600GH ~160W miner. Or the boards can be run individually as ~300GH 150W units clockable down to 150GH <50W and run off a brick, which if you add a quiet 120mm fan could make a pretty decent Jalapeno-formfactor desk miner. Boards would be USB-connected to a controller, so each "S1" would require a 4-port hub but several should run off one host (Pi or whatever). That's the goal, anyway.

If we were able to pull it off, how many folks would be interested in a Prisma chassis refit? I'd shoot for the same power draw (~1KW) at stock settings, so if it scaled directly with the current idea's expected limits you'd have a range from 2.4TH@1KW to 1.1TH@300W.

[philipma1957]

So someone working on the wiki just asked for BM1384 pictures. Guess I'll have to do that tomorrow then. Also I think we have enough info to start work on a test single-chip board to start getting software ironed out. After that it's only a few stages to a test string/matrix and a working full design. Tomorrow will be a miner day (tentatively named the TypeZero) but after that I'll have to get back to the inline regulator project (tentatively named the Chuckwagon) because the prototype's been overdue for weeks because of various "this doesn't work, what the heck", "where did our R&D budget go" and "being really busy sucks" type problems. But progress is being made.

One of these days I'll start an actual dev thread for the TypeZero, and one of these days I'll have a Chuckwagon prototype for Philipma to play with. Only been promising him one since about Christmas.

But if what we want to do is possible (and affordable, and we get enough money to actually make a batch) we'd be looking at what amounts to an S1 Upgrade kit to the tune of 1.3TH <600W, which can software-underclock/volt (using cgminer flags) to a 600GH ~160W miner. Or the boards can be run individually as ~300GH 150W units clockable down to 150GH <50W and run off a brick, which if you add a quiet 120mm fan could make a pretty decent Jalapeno-formfactor desk miner. Boards would be USB-connected to a controller, so each "S1" would require a 4-port hub but several should run off one host (Pi or whatever). That's the goal, anyway.

If we were able to pull it off, how many folks would be interested in a Prisma chassis refit? I'd shoot for the same power draw (~1KW) at stock settings, so if it scaled directly with the current idea's expected limits you'd have a range from 2.4TH@1KW to 1.1TH@300W.

bolded with I want to test that out.

A nice idea  1.1th to 2.4th  300w to 1000w

[sidehack]

I'm very much in favor of reusing existing chassis with updated boards. Saves home miners a ton on shipping costs and also saves us having to do the mechanical design and contract out heatsink manufacture and stuff. All in all it means a less expensive end product, and who doesn't like that?

The holdup on the Chuckwagon right now is efficiency and current monitoring. I've got parts inbound for measuring output current, which I can use that current measurement to change up the buck drive a bit to increase low-end efficiency, and then change it up again to increase high-end efficiency. Once that works on the existing test board, we can throw together several boards and test a multiphase interleaved design. Hopefully it doesn't take too long to get it ironed out. But we ended up working half the weekend and all day yesterday and half of today making D750 boards to get caught up on orders, and we'll have to do it again probably Friday, so no guarantees. But the Chuckwagon is priority, definitely to be finished before any TypeZero boards are prototyped and well before we think about a Prisma refit.

[Bicknellski]

Le bumpage.

Anyone else out there looking to do the next small thing other than Gekko?

[notlist3d]

Le bumpage.

Anyone else out there looking to do the next small thing other than Gekko?

I think they are only ones looking into a small miner.  Seems to be a smaller market.

I will be excited to see Gekko's miner, I'm hoping it all goes well with making it.

[TheRealSteve]

I think they are only ones looking into a small miner.  Seems to be a smaller market.

Avalon is or was planning a 100Gh/s model, which should be a small miner.  SFARDS is also willing to work with integrators for smaller miners.  Both would be based on new chips, though, so have to await availability.  SFARDS's chip should be out Soon™

[notlist3d]

I think they are only ones looking into a small miner.  Seems to be a smaller market.

Avalon is or was planning a 100Gh/s model, which should be a small miner.  SFARDS is also willing to work with integrators for smaller miners.  Both would be based on new chips, though, so have to await availability.  SFARDS's chip should be out Soon™

The new chips are the key for either.  Without new chips it wont get much traction on sales.   

I think the market for 100 GHs or smaller is getting smaller and smaller.  With btc hash rates and pay, I think these models are better for learning.    But as far as setting up much mining at homes in most cases bigger hash rate miners make sense.  That is my opinion though.

[sidehack]

I'd be interested to see what Avalon comes up with as far as new chips. If the efficiency and price don't suck, we'll have to look pretty seriously into working with them. SFARDS really seem proactive (so far) on assisting independent development, which is great, except high-current BGA and dual-algo are both things I wish to avoid. More so the package, really.

Yeah, small miners below several hundred GH/s would be useful mostly as learning tools to get noobs in and understanding what the whole system is about, and how much fun it is to tinker with stuff. Not a lot of intrinsic profitability, but nonintrinsics abound when you consider how much knowledge can be gleaned from a sub-$100 hardware purchase when the hardware is designed to be flexible.

[TheRealSteve]

But as far as setting up much mining at homes in most cases bigger hash rate miners make sense.  That is my opinion though.

I agree, but 'home' does quickly become 'the garage' and 'this mostly empty storage space at work' - at which point almost any gear can be considered home gear.

[sidehack]

Except 12U 16KW machines.

[philipma1957]

Except 12U 16KW machines.

I could run an 8 kwatt unit  but just 1. 

It would need to be able to go as low as 4kwatt and say 12th-14th

It would need to max at  9kwatt  and say 20th.

I can handle up to 9kwatts 7 months of the year.

[sidehack]

Right, but that's you. How many people for whom the "home miner" label is appropriate know anything past 120V 15A wall sockets? This thread has already debated what "home miner" basically means, and a 9KW box is pretty universally not included.

[notlist3d]

Right, but that's you. How many people for whom the "home miner" label is appropriate know anything past 120V 15A wall sockets? This thread has already debated what "home miner" basically means, and a 9KW box is pretty universally not included.

I think 220/240 is spreading slowly.  Which is giving a nice opportunity for home miners.   It allows for much more power and bigger machines.

Yes there are those on 110/120 that will always be there.  Some will never upgrade and put in the higher voltage.   I think home miner's at this point are still mostly 110/120, but I do think it will keep changing.

[dogie]

Except 12U 16KW machines.

What I'm interested to see is why exactly those machines don't scale down, or are modular. What is the functional unit that is 16KW and 12U exactly? What becomes more expensive when you try and make it 8KW and 6U? Sure would be easier to move. Even Bitfury went with ~4U and 2-3KW in the previous gen.

[philipma1957]

Except 12U 16KW machines.

What I'm interested to see is why exactly those machines don't scale down, or are modular. What is the functional unit that is 16KW and 12U exactly? What becomes more expensive when you try and make it 8KW and 6U? Sure would be easier to move. Even Bitfury went with ~4U and 2-3KW in the previous gen.

this is a good question.

A 30 amp 240 volt circuit  = 7200 watts de-rate to  5760 watts . Why not have the  units at this size 5500 watts  and  16th 6u high.

I could do this and I know many home miners can step up to this. 

 But as sidehack said  this would knock  a lot of miners out.

F2pool has around 9000 miners actively mining.
Btc guild has more then 4000 miners actively mining.
Bit minter has many active miners. over 1000.

Lots of them are under 1th why shut them out?
I think we need thousands of little miners. Far more important to the system then 4 or 5 giants.

[Bicknellski]

I'd be interested to see what Avalon comes up with as far as new chips. If the efficiency and price don't suck, we'll have to look pretty seriously into working with them. SFARDS really seem proactive (so far) on assisting independent development, which is great, except high-current BGA and dual-algo are both things I wish to avoid. More so the package, really.

Yeah, small miners below several hundred GH/s would be useful mostly as learning tools to get noobs in and understanding what the whole system is about, and how much fun it is to tinker with stuff. Not a lot of intrinsic profitability, but nonintrinsics abound when you consider how much knowledge can be gleaned from a sub-$100 hardware purchase when the hardware is designed to be flexible.

Think of something like the Raspi of miners.

People can utilize it for any number of educational or developmental purposes.

I imagine a small, quiet, low powered miner that could operate on DC with a battery pack and solar array. Hobby powered miners.

Except 12U 16KW machines.

What I'm interested to see is why exactly those machines don't scale down, or are modular. What is the functional unit that is 16KW and 12U exactly? What becomes more expensive when you try and make it 8KW and 6U? Sure would be easier to move. Even Bitfury went with ~4U and 2-3KW in the previous gen.

this is a good question.

A 30 amp 240 volt circuit  = 7200 watts de-rate to  5760 watts . Why not have the  units at this size 5500 watts  and  16th 6u high.

I could do this and I know many home miners can step up to this.  

 But as sidehack said  this would knock  a lot of miners out.

F2pool has around 9000 miners actively mining.
Btc guild has more then 4000 miners actively mining.
Bit minter has many active miners. over 1000.

Lots of them are under 1th why shut them out?
I think we need thousands of little miners. Far more important to the system then 4 or 5 giants.

Pools are on the decline. I doubt that many will survive longer term. They might hang around for 12 months tops my guess if they are populated with die hard miners with only a few TH/s at home. The death of small scaled mining has started and the weaker pools are the next to fall.

[hedgy73]

I don't think there will be an efficient consumer affordable accessible miner available in the near future.

I think all the big hardware manufacturers will start making products only for cloud mining or solo mining of their own farms.

Home mining is finished, commercial mining with cheap electricity will soon be finished, industrial mining with mega cheap electricity will soon be finished.

Hang on or buy more bitcoin if you haven't got any already.

I'll be back to refer to this post in a few years to prove myself right.

Buy now or be sorry.

EDIT: Sounds sad from a hero member, just trying to point the non believers in the right direction .

[sidehack]

If industrial mining with mega cheap electricity will soon be finished, then the only mning left will be people with free electricity? Which knocks out even the manufacturers themselves and their self/cloud programs?

Though to be fair, if the only mining remaining is manufacturer solo mining (with some cloud allocations) the overall economy will probably start tanking fast which might take the wind out of any mining at all.

[Searing]

If industrial mining with mega cheap electricity will soon be finished, then the only mning left will be people with free electricity? Which knocks out even the manufacturers themselves and their self/cloud programs?

Though to be fair, if the only mining remaining is manufacturer solo mining (with some cloud allocations) the overall economy will probably start tanking fast which might take the wind out of any mining at all.

how will if the above stuff dies effect the use of miners for transaction fees and/or just verifying transactions if the network eventually goes 'poof' in size more or less network size wise?


how small a network of mining do you need to 'float the network' boat so to speak?

[ChuckBuck]

If FT.com's finding are anywhere near correct, then the next consumer model miner could be in a toaster oven and possibly even free:

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2015/04/30/2127543/meet-the-company-that-wants-to-put-a-bitcoin-miner-in-your-toaster/

Need hard confirmation from an official source before passing this as anything beside rumor, but then again 21 inc did partner with Qualcomm and got $116 million worth of venture funding, so maybe there's some truth to this.

Mining in everyday appliances...sign me up!