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August 02, 2012, 08:58:16 PM
 #21

God centric monotheistic religions are just fraternities, organizations where like minded individuals get together to share an experience or work towards an agreed upon goal. God is One, yet there are so many religions, why? We tend to congregate with people we have things in common and disassociate ourselves from those whom we do not. It is the law of attraction, like begets like. Even atheists keep it. Wink

After watching Derren Brown I'd say it's possible to mesmerize many people who have a weak will power. As such the video can only provide testimony to the ability of the converter and the method used to persuade the individual.

Correct, its a tribal thing and not a civil thing.

Civilization is the evolution of tribalism, so why do we still have so many ancient tribalism still going on in the 21st century, scary.

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August 02, 2012, 11:13:08 PM
 #22

Correct, its a tribal thing and not a civil thing.

Civilization is the evolution of tribalism, so why do we still have so many ancient tribalism still going on in the 21st century, scary.

I would hesitate to call it 'tribalism', it is human nature. Doesn't matter if it was 1 million years ago or in 2600AD, human nature will still follow the laws. Therefore, the various fraternities of various religions is not tribalism.

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August 03, 2012, 12:57:20 PM
 #23

is being an atheist a religion?
The usual flippant atheist response to this question is "Is not collecting stamps a hobby?"

Being an atheist just means you don't believe in a deity of any kind. It doesn't require any particular positive belief. There are no customs, traditions, or practices that are part of atheism or shared by atheists generally as part of their being atheists.

Some people do argue that large numbers of atheists have common views and that this makes atheism a religion. For example, many atheists have the affirmative belief that no god exists. Many believe in moral systems such as pragmatism or humanism. Many believe that beliefs must be justified by logic and reason and that faith is not an acceptable justification for belief.

However, nobody has explained how this can constitute a religion without making pretty much everything a religion. People who play golf tend to share a belief that golfing is enjoyable. They share the custom and practice of playing golf. They meet at golf courses on weekends. Is golfing a religion? What about vegetarians? Many of them share a belief that it is morally wrong to eat meat. They have customs and practices, shared beliefs, and so on. Is vegetarianism a religion? What about believing in the importance of regular exercise?

Still, I don't think this is something to argue over. We know what atheism is. Why does it matter what we label it? Whether or not you consider atheism a religion, it is clearly fundamentally different from religions like Christianity and Islam. It still is what it is. Even if atheism was fairly categorized as a religion, that wouldn't make "atheists are religious too" a sensible response to atheist's rejection of major religions, their arguments would still be precisely the same.

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August 03, 2012, 01:20:09 PM
 #24

Correct, its a tribal thing and not a civil thing.

Civilization is the evolution of tribalism, so why do we still have so many ancient tribalism still going on in the 21st century, scary.

I would hesitate to call it 'tribalism', it is human nature. Doesn't matter if it was 1 million years ago or in 2600AD, human nature will still follow the laws. Therefore, the various fraternities of various religions is not tribalism.

Sorry but the core of the problem is tribalism, you can get 2 tribes of same race who epicly hate/kill each other, that same issue still exist today with different naming schemes but same outcomes. You could even go as far as to say that the term 'cliques' is the new term used for 'tribalism'.

Middle-east being a very good example, in most cases blood brothers with a religious barrier.

We have ancient tribalism still going on since they havnt turned into a civilization yet, do you really think with technology and evolution of different areas of technology every single group of people on the planet move at the same pace ?

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August 03, 2012, 04:21:40 PM
 #25

so far heard of atheists and non-Christians etc.. where are the Christians ?

I want to discuss other videos too with Christians and figure out trinity and what they think of the conversions
Perhaps you were confused and thought this was a Christian forum?  If you want to hold a discussion with Christians, you would be better off posting your thoughts to a Christian forum.  This forum is a good place to post if you want to hold a discussion with people active in the Bitcoin community.

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August 03, 2012, 09:23:04 PM
 #26

is being an atheist a religion?
The usual flippant atheist response to this question is "Is not collecting stamps a hobby?"

Being an atheist just means you don't believe in a deity of any kind. It doesn't require any particular positive belief. There are no customs, traditions, or practices that are part of atheism or shared by atheists generally as part of their being atheists.

Some people do argue that large numbers of atheists have common views and that this makes atheism a religion. For example, many atheists have the affirmative belief that no god exists. Many believe in moral systems such as pragmatism or humanism. Many believe that beliefs must be justified by logic and reason and that faith is not an acceptable justification for belief.

However, nobody has explained how this can constitute a religion without making pretty much everything a religion. People who play golf tend to share a belief that golfing is enjoyable. They share the custom and practice of playing golf. They meet at golf courses on weekends. Is golfing a religion? What about vegetarians? Many of them share a belief that it is morally wrong to eat meat. They have customs and practices, shared beliefs, and so on. Is vegetarianism a religion? What about believing in the importance of regular exercise?

Still, I don't think this is something to argue over. We know what atheism is. Why does it matter what we label it? Whether or not you consider atheism a religion, it is clearly fundamentally different from religions like Christianity and Islam. It still is what it is. Even if atheism was fairly categorized as a religion, that wouldn't make "atheists are religious too" a sensible response to atheist's rejection of major religions, their arguments would still be precisely the same.


I don't think it should be labled........ Nothing wrong with just being a kind person....

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August 04, 2012, 05:38:30 AM
 #27

so far heard of atheists and non-Christians etc.. where are the Christians ?

I want to discuss other videos too with Christians and figure out trinity and what they think of the conversions
Perhaps you were confused and thought this was a Christian forum?  If you want to hold a discussion with Christians, you would be better off posting your thoughts to a Christian forum.  This forum is a good place to post if you want to hold a discussion with people active in the Bitcoin community.

I don't think he was confused, I think perhaps it was specifically targeted to Bitcoin community Christians or probably pulled a Xenland and was too lazy to join another forum and learn new rules and other social posting etiquette and instead posted in the off-topic forum... works everytime.
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August 04, 2012, 06:52:51 AM
 #28


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqWVsJXtygI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Eldxkk5ZZw       pt.1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg2DyQt7nOw    pt.2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDyOcPdC_0Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-airlkTRAE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_qTiNDFxB4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmQbgAbvkgo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWzBzt0BzOI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m_xDJncPsY   pt.1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD5Wf4oM_oI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBUdRWjSxHI


I already know what your reply will be. But I will hold assumptions and see.


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August 04, 2012, 02:02:15 PM
 #29

I went to an atheist convention about 3 years ago, there were a lot of jokes made at the expense of believers, which were all laughed at furiously. I have never heard or seen anything that could make me laugh as much as these people did at every slight, their faces writhing in ridiculous caricature.

Eventually we got to the main speaker, Richard Dawkins was introduced followed by over 5 minutes of standing ovation, some people were clapping so hard, they must have been crippled on the way home. His lecture was slow going, any time he paused for breath, the clapping started up again, sometimes back to another standing clap session. I'll admit I can't remember a single thing he talked about.

After he finished his lecture, followed by some more clapping, came question time. One of the first to stand up was a timid old lady, who introduced herself as some sort of christian, before she could as her question the hall was flooded with laughing and jeering. Eventually she got to ask her question, something fairly level headed about whether people are entitled to their beliefs in the eyes of atheists, RD gave a rather undetailed response followed by a "thank you" signalling that the topic was over and for the next person to ask their question. As she walked back to her seat, no BS, there was booing and hissing and some attempted to get a chant going of "Sit Down".

I left that convention with a really bad taste in my mouth. My opinions on religion haven't changed but I won't identify myself as an atheist anymore. Though I do try to accept everyone with the same level of respect no matter what they believe.

Oh and up until six months ago, they were still emailing me trying to sell shit from the convention. Signed posters, t-shirts and bumper stickers
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August 04, 2012, 03:12:56 PM
 #30

So.... not only a religion, but a rather toxic form of cult.

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August 04, 2012, 03:28:39 PM
 #31

So.... not only a religion, but a rather toxic form of cult.
no doubt. I love the way Taz described it though. Very colorful. =)

I already know what your reply will be. But I will hold assumptions and see.

thanks for your links, i viewed all of them quickly , none of them is what i was looking for , i am looking specifically for videos like the one i posted but in opposite, a priest/preacher stopping a muslim, asking the muslim to embrace Christianity, bit of discussion/debate/arguments back and forth and then eventually the muslim person leaving islam and embracing Christianity.

I am aware of these videos , and i am aware many convert from islam to Christianity , but its not what i am looking for.

If you want to discuss or want me to give a comment on one of the links you posted above, select one and I give my opinion.

you Christian ? if so which denomination


Aye, that's what I knew you would say. ;p  I think you will be hard pressed to find video footage of many christians attempting ambush conversions like that.  Don't get me wrong, there are many christian based faiths that go door to door and hand out 'get saved' fliers or ask people to be 'saved' right there on the spot.  You know, now that I think about it more the 'recruiters' for christ are a bit pushier these days than what I recall them being, say 15 years ago. They just havn't uped their game to the big viral marketing scene yet, aka, Youtube.

It's all the same to me though. I consider myself 'christian' in that I believe A god may exist and that he sent his son(s) to earth in order to 'save' us all from ourselves...


I'll try to discuss more with you later. I am needing to take a small, very constipated kitten to the vet here before they close in 30 minutes.

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August 04, 2012, 05:47:53 PM
 #32

is being an atheist a religion?

My favorite youtube channel of all time:

http://www.youtube.com/user/nonstampcollector

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If atheism is a "religion",...

then Not Collecting Stamps is a "hobby".

If atheism is a "religion", ...

then Not Playing Football is a "sport".

If atheism is a "religion", ...

then 'OFF' is a "TV channel".

If atheism is a "religion", ...

then "Abstinence" is a "sex position".

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August 04, 2012, 05:48:59 PM
 #33

Atheists are all part of a cult?  That doesn't make any sense.

A group of people ridiculed someone who believes in ridiculous things.  I don't condone the behavior but I do believe it's more senseless to create an environment where people are pressured to respect even the most ignorant of ideas and beliefs.  I tolerate people with idiotic notions every day, however I won't respect it.

When I have my stupid moments or ideas I would hope likewise others tolerate me as long as I'm not dangerous but would never ask them to respect me for them.

That being said, I can't imagine ever being tempted to attend a convention like that.  What would be the point?  Do these people really need that kind of validation?
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August 04, 2012, 05:52:17 PM
 #34

That being said, I can't imagine ever being tempted to attend a convention like that.  What would be the point?  Do these people really need that kind of validation?

That was my take from it. It seems more a product of 'group think' than a symptom of atheism.

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
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August 04, 2012, 06:29:56 PM
 #35

Hmm... there has been a historical progression in most areas of the world:
animism (belief that everything has a spirit)
to polytheism (belief in many gods)
to monotheism (belief in one god)
to atheism.

Only in the present era is there such a large atheist section of the populace. We live in exciting times.

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August 04, 2012, 09:28:55 PM
 #36

That being said, I can't imagine ever being tempted to attend a convention like that.  What would be the point?  Do these people really need that kind of validation?
If scientists got together every Sunday to re-affirm their conviction in the validity of the theory of evolution, I'd think they were pretty insecure about it.

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August 04, 2012, 10:35:55 PM
 #37

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August 04, 2012, 11:53:14 PM
 #38

The thing i have a problem with athiesm is that its just basically anti-everything considering its not a philosophy, or a view point or a practice or anything its just "anti-" everything really...I don't really understand the point of declaring your self anti-everything, sounds like pure rebellion but then again their is no view point or atheism or philosophy so by definition its not rebellion its just "not" religious/spiritual practice,but in action athiests seem to just be rebal against everything(even though I have heard some athiests mention Altruism, i've never heard an atheist declare a anything that would back up any thoughts on how atheism is purely to condone to altruism scince that is no inline with their beliefs considering they don't believe in anything or have any practices or agree with culture)

So questions are going to be flawed when you compare it to stuff that is "anti-anti-" of atheism

http://www.atheism-analyzed.net/Atheist%20Talking%20Points%20what%20is%20atheism.htm
A good link i think that clears up meh thoughts
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August 05, 2012, 12:01:08 AM
 #39

The thing i have a problem with athiesm is that its just basically anti-everything considering its not a philosophy, or a view point or a practice or anything its just "anti-" everything really...I don't really understand the point of declaring your self anti-everything, sounds like pure rebellion but then again their is no view point or atheism or philosophy so by definition its not rebellion its just "not" religious/spiritual practice,but in action athiests seem to just be rebal against everything(even though I have heard some athiests mention Altruism, i've never heard an atheist declare a anything that would back up any thoughts on how atheism is purely to condone to altruism scince that is no inline with their beliefs considering they don't believe in anything or have any practices or agree with culture)

So questions are going to be flawed when you compare it to stuff that is "anti-anti-" of atheism

http://www.atheism-analyzed.net/Atheist%20Talking%20Points%20what%20is%20atheism.htm
A good link i think that clears up meh thoughts

I see you one one-sided argument website and raise you wikipedia commons. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1][2] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[3][4][5] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[4][5][6][7] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[8][9] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[9][10]

Please check your FUD at the door, thanks.

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August 05, 2012, 12:10:42 AM
 #40

Here is my spin on the value of Islam and the Koran:

Muhamed did not write a book called the Koran, he spoke to people as he traveled. Those people whom he talked to wrote down some of what he said. After Muhameds death, people got together and fashioned the book now called the Koran. During the time of Muhamed, there was still a strong bitterness of Christians, which may have influenced the accurate retelling of Muhameds words. Then as time moved on, someone decided to authorize a single Koran (as there were 8 versions in circulation), of which the Koran authority destroyed any versions but the one they promoted. Today there are 5 known versions of the Koran still in existence.

In legal terms they call this type of evidence, unwitnessed indirect testimony, heresay and it is inadmisible as evidence. Many sayings were attributed to Muhamed and some may not have been his words or ideas.

My second point, Muhamedans believe in God, yet are unwilling to accept that God wrote a book called the Torah, where He is credited with penning at least 1 out of 5 books, as well as the 10 commandments.

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