New Physical Bitcoin - New Concept

[avw1982]

Wow the coins looks great. But Im not interested to buy some. Good luck finding some buyers.

[1715014306]

1715014306

[1715014306]

1715014306

[TookDk]

1. First of all I like the idea about something new and innovative - great job.

2. Preorders - No thanks.

3. There is a potential security breach with the engraved private keys.
I have worked with x-ray machine for inspecting soldering on electronic print circuit boards.
The machine is sensitive enogh to show hair fine cracks in a soldering balll under a BGA.
I am almost certain that it will be possible to copy the key without destroying the coin,
using one of these machine (which is fairly common in the industry).

[haploid23]

When I think of preorders, it reminds me of all the mining companies in the early ASIC race. Pretty much all companies screwed over preorder customers one way or another.

[monkeynuts]

Buying....

After getting in early and getting the original PBC coins (way way back when), then all the Microsouls, I will grab an early one of these too. Love the new design, and interesting concept both for the coin itself, and the hunt (was that you I saw digging in my back garden ?  )

Agree with the bad taste after coinographic,  but I have dealt with Gravitate for a while now. I dont believe it is the same. I am happy preordering in this instance. I have seen some of the issues Gravitate has had with some of the earlier runs, and he has always worked through the issues to satisfactory conclusion and full delivery. If he were a new kid on the block .... I would have reservations

Interested to hear about the other coin

[gravitate]

1. First of all I like the idea about something new and innovative - great job.

2. Preorders - No thanks.

3. There is a potential security breach with the engraved private keys.
I have worked with x-ray machine for inspecting soldering on electronic print circuit boards.
The machine is sensitive enogh to show hair fine cracks in a soldering balll under a BGA.
I am almost certain that it will be possible to copy the key without destroying the coin,
using one of these machine (which is fairly common in the industry).

Thank you for this. The private key will be incontact with the other surface which has a decoy engraved on. I have had dealings with radiography for testing welds for porosity and lack of fusion. These are very tiny defects which are very detectable. From my experience there will be parts (not everywhere) where you can differentiate which side the engraving was on but with the right manipulation this can be overcome. I am from an Engineering background and your concerns are quite right but I also am confident it will not be readable.

[jcoin200]

Thanks for answering questions, but I just have a few more concerns:

the reason I am pre selling this one is because of the extraordinarily high labor, time, travel and effort in producing them and the concept.

Ok, but in the real world you either fund your company yourself or get financing, then create a product to sell.  This setup is making the customers also kind of like investors, only with no return even if there is a long wait.

2. Escrow- No I don't really want to go down this road as I already have another coin in late design that I will be funding so the pre orders will help with cash flow as the process of making the coin goes.

If you are so confident in your process it seems like at least a portion of the pre-orders should be held in escrow.

Also, you say you are using these pre orders to fund another project?  This sounds exactly like what coinographic was claiming to do, take pre-orders (for coins that didn't exist and they had no means to create) in order to fund previously sold coins.

Also the pre sale is the only way to make sure all my efforts do not go to waste.

As opposed to refunding the customers if something makes this fall through?

Not saying you wont make this happen, I just have been disappointed in the lack of accountability in BTC related companies & products.  I for one will not be pre-ordering anything BTC related unless some sort of escrow is used, and a firm timeline of when the product can be expected is established.  I just think its somewhat arrogant to say that you for some reason don't need escrow, and must use a pre-order system, when many other coin makers have done fine without it.

[gravitate]

I have limited it to 15 people who are considered 'investors'. And for their investment they get back a limited coin plus what they bought.
Adding escrow for me with everything I have going is just another unnecessary complication and I do not have time for it. I have never used it as I ensure when I do deals I have a good degree of faith in what is on offer. People will be paying in Bitcoin for escrow but I will be wanting it converted to FIAT so as to not be effected by the value of bitcoin. Complicated unless there are FIAT escrow on here? But I might as well use kick starter or something similar?


I understand that so many scams have happened that I am not aware of (if I was I would not have originally tried to pre sell all of them). I dont expect anyone who does not know me or dealt with me before to invest. I understand now that pre selling is a terrible idea but I do however need to know this coin is a good idea and that people want it to be made.  If there is not sufficient interest then the coin will not be made and I will focus on more traditional coins such as hologram coins (Actually there will be a new coin released very soon with some very interesting twists to it).

If I do not get 15 people then I will refund the people who have invested quite simply and stick to more traditional physical coins in the future.

I would be prepared to put the coin on kickstarter so the amount will be available to me in FIAT when the coin is produced. But if I find 15 people on here also that will for me be simpler and make it easier. I have so far had 2 people interested which is monkeynuts and bithalo. I will not be taking any payments until further interest. Or change it to kickstarter or something similar.

If this coin is worth making I will love to do it and will try work with the community on this. It is all very well minting coins, manufacturing holographic sticks and securely generating private keys then selling the coins. But when you add to the equation having to mint another 5 gold coins (actually only the cost of 1 of these is included in the price but this is high due to the cost of dies it is high), flying to another country to bury the gold coin, having the coins machined in USA and engraved by myself then I want a certain amount of confidence there will be a lot of interest in the coin. this is the reason I wanted some up front  payment not for you to take the financial risk but to show me you think it is a good idea.

[LitcoinCollector]

Pre-order=No-Order

[gentlemand]

Maybe Kickstarter is the way forward. I've had dealings with gravitate and he went well beyond the call of duty for me, but folks are understandably twitchy on here from past experiences with others.

The kickstarter route would open up a new audience and increase exposure. The idea crosses over into gaming which is a huge area for kickstarter projects.

[gravitate]

Maybe Kickstarter is the way forward. I've had dealings with gravitate and he went well beyond the call of duty for me, but folks are understandably twitchy on here from past experiences with others.

The kickstarter route would open up a new audience and increase exposure. The idea crosses over into gaming which is a huge area for kickstarter projects.

I think I will get writing the campaign
Thanks

[TookDk]

Thank you for this. The private key will be incontact with the other surface which has a decoy engraved on. I have had dealings with radiography for testing welds for porosity and lack of fusion. These are very tiny defects which are very detectable. From my experience there will be parts (not everywhere) where you can differentiate which side the engraving was on but with the right manipulation this can be overcome. I am from an Engineering background and your concerns are quite right but I also am confident it will not be readable.

Thank you for taking time to answer my comment about the x-ray. I think I understand what you planning to do.

I have covered my personal paper wallet with a decoy pattern, to prevent retrieving the key by holding the envelope against a powerful light source:


Something similar should be possible in the x-ray domain... with a decoy pattern as you mention.

Looking forward to hear more. 

[smoothie]

I have limited it to 15 people who are considered 'investors'. And for their investment they get back a limited coin plus what they bought.
Adding escrow for me with everything I have going is just another unnecessary complication and I do not have time for it. I have never used it as I ensure when I do deals I have a good degree of faith in what is on offer. People will be paying in Bitcoin for escrow but I will be wanting it converted to FIAT so as to not be effected by the value of bitcoin. Complicated unless there are FIAT escrow on here? But I might as well use kick starter or something similar?


I understand that so many scams have happened that I am not aware of (if I was I would not have originally tried to pre sell all of them). I dont expect anyone who does not know me or dealt with me before to invest. I understand now that pre selling is a terrible idea but I do however need to know this coin is a good idea and that people want it to be made.  If there is not sufficient interest then the coin will not be made and I will focus on more traditional coins such as hologram coins (Actually there will be a new coin released very soon with some very interesting twists to it).

If I do not get 15 people then I will refund the people who have invested quite simply and stick to more traditional physical coins in the future.

I would be prepared to put the coin on kickstarter so the amount will be available to me in FIAT when the coin is produced. But if I find 15 people on here also that will for me be simpler and make it easier. I have so far had 2 people interested which is monkeynuts and bithalo. I will not be taking any payments until further interest. Or change it to kickstarter or something similar.

If this coin is worth making I will love to do it and will try work with the community on this. It is all very well minting coins, manufacturing holographic sticks and securely generating private keys then selling the coins. But when you add to the equation having to mint another 5 gold coins (actually only the cost of 1 of these is included in the price but this is high due to the cost of dies it is high), flying to another country to bury the gold coin, having the coins machined in USA and engraved by myself then I want a certain amount of confidence there will be a lot of interest in the coin. this is the reason I wanted some up front  payment not for you to take the financial risk but to show me you think it is a good idea.

If you truly are just gauging interest then you should have no problem using escrow to hold the funds of preordering customers.

Are you accepting escrow?

[bithalo]

While I wouldn't trust a brand new coin maker these days due to the coinographic scam, I echo monkeynuts in that in this case, I trust gravitate.  He made the various microsoul silver and brass versions and earlier PBC coins.  

Like I said earlier, I'm on board in getting a coin.

I would say though to ensure this project moves forward that perhaps gravitate can do something to put people's minds at ease.  Escrow, partial payment, require only verbal confirmation vs payment, kickstarter, etc..

[gravitate]

I have limited it to 15 people who are considered 'investors'. And for their investment they get back a limited coin plus what they bought.
Adding escrow for me with everything I have going is just another unnecessary complication and I do not have time for it. I have never used it as I ensure when I do deals I have a good degree of faith in what is on offer. People will be paying in Bitcoin for escrow but I will be wanting it converted to FIAT so as to not be effected by the value of bitcoin. Complicated unless there are FIAT escrow on here? But I might as well use kick starter or something similar?


I understand that so many scams have happened that I am not aware of (if I was I would not have originally tried to pre sell all of them). I dont expect anyone who does not know me or dealt with me before to invest. I understand now that pre selling is a terrible idea but I do however need to know this coin is a good idea and that people want it to be made.  If there is not sufficient interest then the coin will not be made and I will focus on more traditional coins such as hologram coins (Actually there will be a new coin released very soon with some very interesting twists to it).

If I do not get 15 people then I will refund the people who have invested quite simply and stick to more traditional physical coins in the future.

I would be prepared to put the coin on kickstarter so the amount will be available to me in FIAT when the coin is produced. But if I find 15 people on here also that will for me be simpler and make it easier. I have so far had 2 people interested which is monkeynuts and bithalo. I will not be taking any payments until further interest. Or change it to kickstarter or something similar.

If this coin is worth making I will love to do it and will try work with the community on this. It is all very well minting coins, manufacturing holographic sticks and securely generating private keys then selling the coins. But when you add to the equation having to mint another 5 gold coins (actually only the cost of 1 of these is included in the price but this is high due to the cost of dies it is high), flying to another country to bury the gold coin, having the coins machined in USA and engraved by myself then I want a certain amount of confidence there will be a lot of interest in the coin. this is the reason I wanted some up front  payment not for you to take the financial risk but to show me you think it is a good idea.

If you truly are just gauging interest then you should have no problem using escrow to hold the funds of preordering customers.

Are you accepting escrow?

Yes but not in bitcoin. That is the complication. I was going to turn the funds directly into Fiat to protect myself from the volatility of bitcoin. I could accept bitcoin as escrow and then when it comes to the delivery bitcoin could be worth 50 usd each.  Is there a way around that?  I am now thinking down the kickstarter line but a 5% fee will put the prices up slightly but at least it's everyone's covered. It may bring more publicity quicker too if it spotted.

While I wouldn't trust a brand new coin maker these days due to the coinographic scam, I echo monkeynuts in that in this case, I trust gravitate.  He made the various microsoul silver and brass versions and earlier PBC coins.  

Like I said earlier, I'm on board in getting a coin.

I would say though to ensure this project moves forward that perhaps gravitate can do something to put people's minds at ease.  Escrow, partial payment, require only verbal confirmation vs payment, kickstarter, etc..

I think in this case kick stater would be the best option and there is a chance we will get interest from people outside the btc community too which would be good for everyone!
I will look into starting a campaign early next week.

[AT101ET]

It's an interesting concept but I can't imagine people would actually fly around the world in search for the golden coin. I simply propose that you leave hints/riddles to clues which have an answer. Maybe the first person to have the answer or digitally map the co-ordinates can PM you and he/she get the 'treasure'.

[gravitate]

It's an interesting concept but I can't imagine people would actually fly around the world in search for the golden coin. I simply propose that you leave hints/riddles to clues which have an answer. Maybe the first person to have the answer or digitally map the co-ordinates can PM you and he/she get the 'treasure'.

 This is exactly what I intend. I am going to make it that you will not fly somewhere unless you are 99% sure you are flying to the right place. Which means it will be very hard to crack