This message was too old and has been purged

[illodin]

No matter how the OP came off, I don't think it's a good idea to ridicule him as I wouldn't want anyone to hesitate to report any potential issues in the future out of the fear of getting laughed at.

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[fluffypony]

Yep, your example was basically the same thing. Difficulty retargets slow. And the reward curve described in the whitepaper was taken into use after GPU miners started to appear, so the graph you posted does not use that formula at the beginning.

Ok so then I went and got the formula from the Darkcoin OP as it was 3 weeks after launch, which was "Block reward is controlled by moore's law: (11111 / (((Difficulty+51)/6) ^ 2))", and I graphed them all:

So reality doesn't match any of the claimed block reward formulae, and this is deeply concerning because changing the social contract destroys the trust (or SHOULD destroy the trust) between the community and the developers of the cryptocurrency.

[qwizzie]

<-- throws away his popcorn and wonders off

[smooth]

The last two blocks:
http://chainradar.com/xmr/block/465073
2015-03-06 20:28:34

http://chainradar.com/xmr/block/465074
2015-03-06 20:28:37

You can't even get a simple 60 second number right.

Now you're just trolling. Timestamps are set by miners and are not universally reliable, and in any event difficulty retargeting relies on the law of large numbers (ie. capacity for statistical variance has to exist).

Also hey, the last 5 Darkcoin blocks tell exactly the same story: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]

Yep, your example was basically the same thing.

LOL, thousands of blocks adding up to millions of coins is "basically the same thing" as random fluctuation on two blocks adding up to <25 coins. Nice one illodin though I have to say I'm a bit disappointed. Usually your trolling is a bit more subtle and intelligent than that.

[Lukas_Jackson]

So this is all about.
Provoke discussion about darksend, arguments always ends and then bring...yes say it..."instamine" argument on the table. You aren't just answering to illodin
I puked all my popcorn  

[stealth923]

So this is all about.
Provoke discussion about darksend, arguments always ends and then bring...yes say it..."instamine" argument on the table. You aren't just answering to illodin
I puked all my popcorn  

Thats because Trolls and Monero fans have nothing but the instamine to grasp onto.....when all else fails go back to something the Dark dev has clearly explained over 6 months ago, the coin is now over 1 year old and in reality is not even so much as a small issue....

Just makes them look desperate and ignorant imo, especially when their coins are dying and their bags are feeling heavier as ever.

EDIT: Case in point read one post above by kazuki49 - XMR Brain dead Troll

[qwizzie]

Guess its my fault in the end for keep reading these threads but I'm really sick of this scam, its pretty clear how its a scam (instamined) and the anonymity doest work and was just put together to create hype and scam more people. DRK = another big scam in the top 20 coins.

and the discussion quality goes lower and lower.

qwizzie



Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain - and most fools do.

Benjamin Franklin

[smooth]

So this is all about.
Provoke discussion about darksend, arguments always ends and then bring...yes say it..."instamine" argument on the table. You aren't just answering to illodin
I puked all my popcorn  

If you are addressing me, yes I was just answering illodin. I haven't worked through the transactional details above so I have no comment to make on the OP, but when it comes to claiming that two blocks happening within a few seconds means anything at all, that's just absurd, and insults the intelligence of anyone who understands the slightest thing about how mining works. Which btw I'm pretty sure includes illodin. Obvious trolling attempt, and a pretty lame one.

[Lukas_Jackson]

Guess its my fault in the end for keep reading these threads but I'm really sick of this scam, its pretty clear how its a scam (instamined) and the anonymity doest work and was just put together to create hype and scam more people. DRK = another big scam in the top 20 coins.

Because market said 'no' to your holdings? well sorry but in case you don't know, market=people

[GingerAle]

<-- throws away his popcorn and wonders off

i'm hoping my bag of popcorn lasts long enough for evil-K's deanonymizer darkcoin explorer.

From my last count its up to a 2 BTC bounty.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=978447.msg10681892#msg10681892

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=978447.msg10682106#msg10682106

summarized in this quote for archival purposes:

We should set up a BTC donation fund for Evil-Knievel to build a Darkcoin python deanonymizer!

I pledge 1 BTC if Evil-Knievel successfully builds a Darkcoin python deanonymize.  

I'll add another 1 BTC to that.

[illodin]

this is deeply concerning because changing the social contract destroys the trust (or SHOULD destroy the trust) between the community and the developers of the cryptocurrency.

If there is a problem with reward formula it can't be fixed because you might get deeply concerned? The formula was changed, and people decided to download the client with the changed formula, thus the trust was not destroyed.

That's one attribute of Evan, he doesn't ponder and mull over things for ages he just goes and does and accomplishes things.

The launch was far from optimal, that much has been established after a year of talking about it. What has happened has happened, and what can be done is either to keep crying about it or to move on.

[Evil-Knievel]

This message was too old and has been purged

[Lukas_Jackson]

So this is all about.
Provoke discussion about darksend, arguments always ends and then bring...yes say it..."instamine" argument on the table. You aren't just answering to illodin
I puked all my popcorn  

If you are addressing me, yes I was just answering illodin. I haven't worked through the transactional details above so I have no comment to make on the OP, but when it comes to claiming that two blocks happening within a few seconds means anything at all, that's just absurd, and insults the intelligence of anyone who understands the slightest thing about how mining works. Which btw I'm pretty sure includes illodin. Obvious trolling attempt, and a pretty lame one.

Fluffypony came up with a chart and you compared drk beginning with two blocks of monero using ''instamine'' argument

[solid12345]

when all else fails go back to something the Dark dev has clearly explained over 6 months ago

Actually to be fair it never was really explained. It was written off as, "well I fucked up the emission schedule, I COULD'VE had a re-do mining phase, but it's okay because all the coins were sold off cheaply anyway".

Which is funny considering Shadowcash for instance gets crap for its uneven distribution yet anyone can buy themselves a big stake of the coin for just a few hundred bucks at 5 cents a coin compared to the going rate of as much as 50 cents to a dollar for Dark last spring when it didn't even have Darksend RC1 implemented yet!  How were these insane prices able to be asked for what was then a generic coin other than a few whales controlled all the supply, most likely benefitting from this uneven mining schedule?

[smooth]

Guess its my fault in the end for keep reading these threads but I'm really sick of this scam, its pretty clear how its a scam (instamined) and the anonymity doest work and was just put together to create hype and scam more people. DRK = another big scam in the top 20 coins.

Because market said 'no' to your holdings? well sorry but in case you don't know, market=people

The so-called crypto "market" is a tiny number of a people, a huge amount of manipulation, and very illiquid markets. In all it means little until any of these coins start getting used by more than a few speculators and insiders. I'm not just talking about DRK, but DRK is certainly included.

what can be done is either to keep crying about it or move on

Correct, I'd recommend moving on to another coin that doesn't have the baggage, and I do recommend that when people ask me.

I'm not a fan of the whole idea of masternodes, nor a fan of PoS coins, so the tech has nothing to interest me, but if I were, I would clone DRK and relaunch it clean the way we did with Monero.

[Lukas_Jackson]

Guess its my fault in the end for keep reading these threads but I'm really sick of this scam, its pretty clear how its a scam (instamined) and the anonymity doest work and was just put together to create hype and scam more people. DRK = another big scam in the top 20 coins.

Because market said 'no' to your holdings? well sorry but in case you don't know, market=people

The so-called crypto "market" is a tiny number of a people, a huge amount of manipulation, and very illiquid markets. In all it means little until any of these coins start getting used by more than a few speculators and insiders. I'm not just talking about DRK, but DRK is certainly included.

Yes, I know this ''market'' 
I was just trying to be as low as kazuki49

[stealth923]

when all else fails go back to something the Dark dev has clearly explained over 6 months ago

Actually to be fair it never was really explained. It was written off as, "well I fucked up the emission schedule, I COULD'VE had a re-do mining phase, but it's okay because all the coins were sold off cheaply anyway".

Which is funny considering Shadowcash for instance gets crap for its uneven distribution yet anyone can buy themselves a big stake of the coin for just a few hundred bucks at 5 cents a coin compared to the going rate of as much as 50 cents to a dollar for Dark last spring when it didn't even have Darksend RC1 implemented yet!  How were these insane prices able to be asked for what was then a generic coin other than a few whales controlled all the supply, most likely benefitting from this uneven mining schedule?

It wasnt exactly as you put it and Evans explanation was accepted by the community. What would you do, just pack your bags and kill the coin or because the market has washed the coins over and over due to demand just let it be. Evans decision was the right one.

Also, nice segway to being some attention to ShadowShit - The reason why you can buy it for so cheap is most of the community put that as much as a failure as XC and the other anon shitcoins, dont waste your time. The market has spoken.

[toknormal]

Maybe you should take the time to look at our Design and Development goals, which will likely take us several years to achieve, but which are based on solid cryptographic principles instead of imagining that you can shortcut consensus.

Well your not going to achieve them if your idea of "business acumen" is scurrying around bitcointalk with your nose out of joint that the "wrong coin" has got the most attention and maligning widely respected devs as being clueless about cryptography.

If implementing such a simple formula can't even be done correctly, then it would seem your trust in your "dev" is deeply misplaced.

Touche. You scored a point - unfortunately not the one made which is that most cryptocurrency technologies are based on some kind of established algorithms developed in academic research, Darkcoin included. Thats the easy bit. The hard bit is acquiring an $18m marketcap which takes more than having a few letters after your name and arriving at the stable after the horse has bolted. In case you hadn't noticed, the market is awash with sub-$3M cap cryptonote coins, all of them claiming technical supremacy - 14 at the last count no less. The entire coinmarketcap listing is also considerably more advanced technically than bitcoin but none of them ever made a dent in its valuation.

One of the reasons Monero never got off the ground is because it tried to base it's whole value offering on a piece of academic theory rather than trying to produce something of practical value

It's crazy how you misstate this. Let me ask you this: what has Darkcoin ever done for Bitcoin?…..Monero created the OpenAlias standard

Although that's a charming gesture, it wasn't quite my idea of "practical value".

I was alluding to legacy technical compliance with the retail insfrastucture as well as well as maximising the inheritance of Bitcoin's monetary valuation by way of 100% faithful cloning. In a financial context, bitcoin is starting to work in an opposite direction to the alts - i.e. it's drawing its value from the fact that it is an original, is trusted and static - as opposed to the alts which gain value from being technically advanced.

Darkcoin adds 1 missing (or deficient) monetary property to Bitcoin - that of fungibility by way of pre-emptively mixing the coin supply while still in the wallet. It remains to be seen whether the market thinks that 3rd party mixers can fulfil that role but one thing is for sure - they will never be an institutionalised solution and my own view is that the markets are fluid enough for another crypto to adopt that role (not a replacement but complimentary).

Monero and other cryptonotes, on the other hand, are in a completely different market. They are a clean sheet technology with an entirely different basis for their valuation - at the moment it's almost purely a hedging one. The technology is interesting and may, as you say, mature in years to come to acquire its own market but one thing we can agree on - they are not bitcoin clones and will therefore not inherit any of bitcoin's valuation. They need to do their own "rights of passage phase" which is one of the things that does get you marketcap in the end.

So I don't grudge you your "advanced tech" but I don't think you're doing yourself any favours going around slamming other devs for being technically incompetent when they're clearly not and when there is a valid, clearly documented basis for the design priorities they've made that are not the same priorities that you are attributing to them.

[smooth]

It wasnt exactly as you put it and Evans explanation was accepted by the community.

It was clearly not accepted by the entire community otherwise no one would still be criticizing it.

I can tell you with certainty that I'm part of the crytpcurrency community and my opinion is that anyone who likes the DRK technology and wants to see it thrive should just relaunch it clean. Those who don't favor that are putting their holdings (which likely benefited directly or indirectly from the instamine) ahead of the given the tech the best chance to succeed unencumbered by a foundation of incompetence and/or fraud.

[illodin]

I'd recommend moving on to another coin that doesn't have the baggage, and I do recommend that when people ask me.

I'm not a fan of the whole idea of masternodes, nor a fan of PoS coins, so the tech has nothing to interest me, but if I were I would clone DRK and relaunch it clean the way we did with Monero.

If you launch a new coin and it becomes successful, then after a year you will again have people whining they weren't there at the launch or didn't get to buy 10k coins for 0.25 BTC. The more successful it is, the more whine there will be.