How would a world with BTC as reserve currency look like?

[countryfree]

Imagine Greece without the €. Cost of borrowing would be huge.

The cost of borrowing of Greece is not low now, even with the Euro.
Even if there is no currency risk (because Greece borrows in Euros), investors factor in a premium for counterparty credit risk.

http://www.bankofgreece.gr/Pages/en/Statistics/rates_markets/titloieldimosiou/titloieldimosiou.aspx

According to the Bank of Greece site, the current yield on 3-year Greek bonds is ~13% and has crossed 20% in the last 2 months. This is not cheap at all. 

It is. Borrowing would much more expensive, and nearly impossible, if Greece leaves the €.

Greece will leave, then spain, then portugal, then italy...

No, not Italy. Spain wants to stay and Italy even more. The European Union without Italy is unimaginable. Italians love the convenience of the Euro and Italy is a founding member of Europe. The problem in Italy is its inefficient administrations.

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[Hfleer]

So much for the actual topic of the thread ... sigh

Hfleer, how about changing the topic of this thread and starting a new one?

I don't follow your argument. What is wrong with this thread?

[odolvlobo]

So much for the actual topic of the thread ... sigh

Hfleer, how about changing the topic of this thread and starting a new one?

I don't follow your argument. What is wrong with this thread?

Nobody has written about your topic.

[GreenStox]

This is called wishful thinking. You say that eventually bitcoin will take over, but how come that it had fallen from over 1,100$ per coin to around $250 (and sits there for now)? This is surely not what you would expect from a deflationary coin that is going to take over the world... Was it a false start?

Oh c'mon man, you skeptics are saying the same thing over and over again.

I explained this in the Economics section already like 10 times already

1) Bitcoin is new, 6 years is not exactly a good sample to look at, but the mere existence of BTC proves that it will go on much longer
2) It was a bubble phase like with everything else.

The fact that the tulip mania in the 1600's crashes means that there is nobody selling tulips today? No it just means that the price of it got to a real level, the same can be said about bitcoin

3) The yearly inflation of BTC is still a bit high, so wallstreet is not that interested in it yet, but it will decrease eventually to 0%
4) The media demonizes it and statists are trying to sabotage it with regulation

Under these conditions its hard to grow to the moon, but dont be afraid it will get there eventually.

5) Just wait until Greece collapses and takes the EU with it (the 1000$ burst was because the maffia started seizing Cyprus accounts, what will happen when the Greeks start robbing their accounts => They are already looting private pensions lol) So yeah...

6) The US debt and Japan's debt is also not very shiny, so as the global economy gets worse and worse bitcoin will act as the perfect safe haven currency!

7) You are very impatient bro, stop looking for get-rich-quick and focus on longer picture!!

[deisik]

This is called wishful thinking. You say that eventually bitcoin will take over, but how come that it had fallen from over 1,100$ per coin to around $250 (and sits there for now)? This is surely not what you would expect from a deflationary coin that is going to take over the world... Was it a false start?

Oh c'mon man, you skeptics are saying the same thing over and over again.

I explained this in the Economics section already like 10 times already

1) Bitcoin is new, 6 years is not exactly a good sample to look at, but the mere existence of BTC proves that it will go on much longer
2) It was a bubble phase like with everything else.

The fact that the tulip mania in the 1600's crashes means that there is nobody selling tulips today? No it just means that the price of it got to a real level, the same can be said about bitcoin

3) The yearly inflation of BTC is still a bit high, so wallstreet is not that interested in it yet, but it will decrease eventually to 0%
4) The media demonizes it and statists are trying to sabotage it with regulation

Under these conditions its hard to grow to the moon, but dont be afraid it will get there eventually.

5) Just wait until Greece collapses and takes the EU with it (the 1000$ burst was because the maffia started seizing Cyprus accounts, what will happen when the Greeks start robbing their accounts => They are already looting private pensions lol) So yeah...

6) The US debt and Japan's debt is also not very shiny, so as the global economy gets worse and worse bitcoin will act as the perfect safe haven currency!

7) You are very impatient bro, stop looking for get-rich-quick and focus on longer picture!!

First, 6 years is not exactly what you would call "new", at least in modern times. Second, your example with tulips actually works against you since the price for tulips today is nowhere near where it had been in 1637 at the peak of tulip mania (in relation to the price of other goods). 377 years has passed since then, and how long should we wait till another bitcoin bubble unfolds?

I changed the font size and color of you reply to normal, since this in no case could have any persuading effect on me but is in fact irritating, sorry

[Hfleer]

So much for the actual topic of the thread ... sigh

Hfleer, how about changing the topic of this thread and starting a new one?

I don't follow your argument. What is wrong with this thread?

Nobody has written about your topic.

Well, reserve currency doesn't exclude its use as currency in the common sense. All past reserve currencies were directly national currencies.

[GreenStox]

First, 6 years is not exactly what you would call "new", at least in modern times. Second, your example with tulips actually works against you since the price for tulips today is nowhere near where it had been in 1637 at the peak of tulip mania (in relation to the price of other goods). 377 years has passed since then, and how long should we wait till another bitcoin bubble unfolds?

I changed the font size and color of you reply to normal, since this in no case could have any persuading effect on me but is in fact irritating, sorry

Ok i highly suggest you to watch this video about Bitcoin's growth curve:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHUPPYzzZrI

Also every single mass mania had atleast a 7 year unfolding period: facebook founded in 2003 it needed until 2007-2008 to become mainstream...

And so on, besides facebook and others had massive money backing them while bitcoin is only founded by the people, as i pointed out wallstreet is not interested in it yet, plus banks have other agendas trying to discredit it so that their own ponzi finance can become in monopoly.

Bitcoin is just challenging the global ponzi scheme, and if the nasty regulators dont interfere, it will eventually replace it.

Even if you just look at the money processing aspect, its far more superior than western union, credit cards and other BS. Instead of waiting 4 days for a transaction you wait 10 minutes....

The only, and i emphasize the only thing holding bitcoin back is the lack of media attention + progaganda trying to demonize it.

If people are dumb enough to hold Greek bonds, then they are dumb enough to believe the demonization of Bitcoin, just like you believe in it (no offence meant)....

SO you see, media is the utmost important factor here, and the propaganda is strong believe me.

[deisik]

First, 6 years is not exactly what you would call "new", at least in modern times. Second, your example with tulips actually works against you since the price for tulips today is nowhere near where it had been in 1637 at the peak of tulip mania (in relation to the price of other goods). 377 years has passed since then, and how long should we wait till another bitcoin bubble unfolds?

I changed the font size and color of you reply to normal, since this in no case could have any persuading effect on me but is in fact irritating, sorry

Ok i highly suggest you to watch this video about Bitcoin's growth curve:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHUPPYzzZrI

Also every single mass mania had atleast a 7 year unfolding period: facebook founded in 2003 it needed until 2007-2008 to become mainstream...

And so on, besides facebook and others had massive money backing them while bitcoin is only founded by the people, as i pointed out wallstreet is not interested in it yet, plus banks have other agendas trying to discredit it so that their own ponzi finance can become in monopoly.

Bitcoin is just challenging the global ponzi scheme, and if the nasty regulators dont interfere, it will eventually replace it.

Even if you just look at the money processing aspect, its far more superior than western union, credit cards and other BS. Instead of waiting 4 days for a transaction you wait 10 minutes....

The only, and i emphasize the only thing holding bitcoin back is the lack of media attention + progaganda trying to demonize it.

If people are dumb enough to hold Greek bonds, then they are dumb enough to believe the demonization of Bitcoin, just like you believe in it (no offence meant)....

SO you see, media is the utmost important factor here, and the propaganda is strong believe me.

What you write here in big red letters (and beyond that) looks just what you are preaching against. Besides, have you ever had a bank card? I have a few, and the money is transferred to and from them almost instantaneously. And almost instantaneously here means that the money is credited (or debited) within just a few minutes. You don't have to wait for an hour or so until you get enough confirmations on the blockchain (most vendors require at least two confirmations)...

Someone recently said that even if the money had been shown on your bank card balance immediately after the transfer, you still couldn't spend it at once. I checked, and in fact I could

[GreenStox]

What you write here in big red letters (and beyond that) looks just what you are preaching against. Besides, have you ever had a bank card? I have a few, and the money is transferred to and from them almost instantaneously. And almost instantaneously here means that the money is credited (or debited) within just a few minutes. You don't have to wait for an hour or so until you get enough confirmations on the blockchain (most vendors require at least two confirmations)...

Someone recently said that even if the money had been shown on your bank card balance immediately after the transfer, you still couldn't spend it at once. I checked, and in fact I could

Man you are totally offtopic. Those 7 points that i emphasized there (exactly for the purpose of people understanding it, but looks like they dont) is exactly valid, and if you look around the financial sector for other new ventures from the post .com era you see that all of them needed between 5-12 years to reach mainstream. Bitcoin is halfway through and its doing a pretty good job so far, so i dont understand whats your problem about that.

I was talking about wire transfer, it takes 4 days to clear with all those stupid AML regulations, a grandma sends 15$ for his grandson in another contry and shes a suspect for terrorism is pretty ridiculous, yes she also has to wait 4 days.

A credit/debit card is not a money transmitter, it's more like a shopping coupon/token, because you can only purchase from preselected vendors (approved by our beloved ruling class), and you can't transmit money p2p with it. Also a card is directly bound to the owner, and can't be transferred, while a bitcoin address can.

So in this perspective, you have to go through like days of AML verification processes, (just look how many identity verification exchanges need for you to buy bitcoin from them), and it still takes 4 days to clear it's pretty silly.

Not to forget that they also charge 5% comissions. for card shopping and more for wire transfer.


On the other hand, you can "open a bitcoin account" in 2 seconds (depending how fast your processor generates the address), send money in 10 minutes, and you can also sell your bitcoin address, however it has no particular reason to do it.

Don't you see the crucial difference between the traditional financial system and bitcoin or are you just playing the ignorance? 

[deisik]

What you write here in big red letters (and beyond that) looks just what you are preaching against. Besides, have you ever had a bank card? I have a few, and the money is transferred to and from them almost instantaneously. And almost instantaneously here means that the money is credited (or debited) within just a few minutes. You don't have to wait for an hour or so until you get enough confirmations on the blockchain (most vendors require at least two confirmations)...

Someone recently said that even if the money had been shown on your bank card balance immediately after the transfer, you still couldn't spend it at once. I checked, and in fact I could

Man you are totally offtopic. Those 7 points that i emphasized there (exactly for the purpose of people understanding it, but looks like they dont) is exactly valid, and if you look around the financial sector for other new ventures from the post .com era you see that all of them needed between 5-12 years to reach mainstream. Bitcoin is halfway through and its doing a pretty good job so far, so i dont understand whats your problem about that.

I was talking about wire transfer, it takes 4 days to clear with all those stupid AML regulations, a grandma sends 15$ for his grandson in another contry and shes a suspect for terrorism is pretty ridiculous, yes she also has to wait 4 days.

A credit/debit card is not a money transmitter, it's more like a shopping coupon/token, because you can only purchase from preselected vendors (approved by our beloved ruling class), and you can't transmit money p2p with it. Also a card is directly bound to the owner, and can't be transferred, while a bitcoin address can.

So in this perspective, you have to go through like days of AML verification processes, (just look how many identity verification exchanges need for you to buy bitcoin from them), and it still takes 4 days to clear it's pretty silly.

Not to forget that they also charge 5% comissions. for card shopping and more for wire transfer.

On the other hand, you can "open a bitcoin account" in 2 seconds (depending how fast your processor generates the address), send money in 10 minutes, and you can also sell your bitcoin address, however it has no particular reason to do it.

Don't you see the crucial difference between the traditional financial system and bitcoin or are you just playing the ignorance? 

You were talking about western union and credit cards (if you don't believe me go read your own post), exactly what I replied to you. Now you are obviously pedaling this issue off and begin talking about wire transfers. Okay then, where I live wire transfers take a few hours, and I don't pay anything for them in my bank, just nothing. I periodically send money from one bank to another in the afternoon and receive the money back in the evening (there is a purpose in this). And it may surprise you greatly, but I even get 1% money-back (cash-back) for shopping...

I don't see much reason in being able to give my bank card to anyone. Just in case, there are non-personalized (nameless) bank cards

[GreenStox]

You were talking about western union and credit cards (if you don't believe me go read you own post), exactly what I replied to you. Now you are obviously pedaling this issue off and begin talking about wire transfers. Okay then, where I live wire transfers take a few hours, and I don't pay anything for them in my bank, just nothing. I periodically send money from one bank to another in the afternoon and receive the money back in the evening (there is a purpose in this). And it may surprise you greatly, but I even get 1% money-back for shopping...

I don't see much reason in being able to give my bank card to anyone. Just in case, there are non-personalized (nameless) bank cards

Where do you live man, it souds like a paradise?

You must be one of the 0.0000001% exeptions that give some validity to the current banking system.

I`m sure though most of us have to wait 4 days to transfer, pay a  20€ fee + 3%, have shitty customer service at the bank and also credit cards charge alot too +2~3% and also they audit you if you send many 10€ transactions because you become suspect of money laudering  .

So it's good to be in the minority but the majority has definitely other experiences with the current banking system

[deisik]

You were talking about western union and credit cards (if you don't believe me go read you own post), exactly what I replied to you. Now you are obviously pedaling this issue off and begin talking about wire transfers. Okay then, where I live wire transfers take a few hours, and I don't pay anything for them in my bank, just nothing. I periodically send money from one bank to another in the afternoon and receive the money back in the evening (there is a purpose in this). And it may surprise you greatly, but I even get 1% money-back for shopping...

I don't see much reason in being able to give my bank card to anyone. Just in case, there are non-personalized (nameless) bank cards

Where do you live man, it souds like a paradise?

You must be one of the 0.0000001% exeptions that give some validity to the current banking system.

I`m sure though most of us have to wait 4 days to transfer, pay a  20€ fee + 3%, have shitty customer service at the bank and also credit cards charge alot too +2~3% and also they audit you if you send many 10€ transactions because you become suspect of money laudering  .

So it's good to be in the minority but the majority has definitely other experiences with the current banking system

You can look through my posts to get an idea (where I live). So you are obviously looking for a new bitcoin bubble to unfold, though it may never happen again (like gold may not reach 1900$ per ounce in the foreseeable future)... I'm curious, how many bitcoins you have, and at what price you bought them?

[GreenStox]

You were talking about western union and credit cards (if you don't believe me go read you own post), exactly what I replied to you. Now you are obviously pedaling this issue off and begin talking about wire transfers. Okay then, where I live wire transfers take a few hours, and I don't pay anything for them in my bank, just nothing. I periodically send money from one bank to another in the afternoon and receive the money back in the evening (there is a purpose in this). And it may surprise you greatly, but I even get 1% money-back for shopping...

I don't see much reason in being able to give my bank card to anyone. Just in case, there are non-personalized (nameless) bank cards

Where do you live man, it souds like a paradise?

You must be one of the 0.0000001% exeptions that give some validity to the current banking system.

I`m sure though most of us have to wait 4 days to transfer, pay a  20€ fee + 3%, have shitty customer service at the bank and also credit cards charge alot too +2~3% and also they audit you if you send many 10€ transactions because you become suspect of money laudering  .

So it's good to be in the minority but the majority has definitely other experiences with the current banking system

You can look through my posts to get an idea (where I live). So you are obviously looking for a new bitcoin bubble to unfold, though it may never happen again (like gold may not reach 1900$ per ounce in the foreseeable future)... I'm curious, how many bitcoins you have, and at what price you bought them?

Russia?

Man i start to like the BRICS more and more, your banking system is so much better then. Also the financial responsibility is much higher there, and the gold backing etc etc.

Maybe its because of my resentment of the western financial system that bought be into bitcoin but, still this doesnt mean that the eastern banking system is perfect, far from it.

See the western system is just totally rotten, no doubt about it, but i still think that the Bitcoin is a much more efficient one than the BRICS payment system aswell, since its costlesness. Now the great would be if the mainstream system would merge with Bitcoin and provide interconnected services.

I would like a bank to have a service where you could buy and sell bitcoins directly from my checking account, until I see that i`ll remain skeptical.

Once the banking system decides to implement that, then i`ll regain my respect for them, until then, i`ll be watching it developing.

I own ~3 BTC bought none, i earned them and sold a few stuff

[bitboy11]

This change would be a slow process.
The switch would probably happen incrementally, from state to state or country to country over a period of years.
The entire world would not accept this change overnight.
Same thing happened with the introduction of dollars when they began phasing out using gold as a day to day currency.

This would affect every country's economy as they would have to overhaul entire monetary systems that have been in place for decades.
The country that would probably be most affected would be the USA because they would no longer be able to print money out of thin air.
How would the USA operate their "black budget" when there is only transparency in all transactions?

These are very interesting questions.

[Razick]

Hey guys,

I was thinking about how the world would change if it used BTC as reserve currency in the future.

- What would need to change for this to happen?
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
- What would be the benefits of this?
- What would be the downside of this?

Lets hear some answers, then I will tell what I think will change. I don't want to bias this thread!

In a way it would be much like the world before the US dollar (with, as I understand it, gold as the reserve currency) with one major difference: governments could transact trillions of dollars almost instantly at very little cost.

The concern that I see is that governments would likely have to create a mining arms race to maintain the security of the network. The U.S. could not allow China to control 51% of the network and vice versa, so billions would be spent to constantly keep a competitive hash rate. This would likely result in private mining becoming impractical. Governments might use their monopoly of the network to increase fees in an effort to recoup costs. As a result, Bitcoin transactions might become too expensive for anything but large institutional transactions.

If these pitfalls were escaped, I suspect the exchange rate would become significantly more stable.

Thoughts?

[deisik]

Hey guys,

I was thinking about how the world would change if it used BTC as reserve currency in the future.

- What would need to change for this to happen?
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
- What would be the benefits of this?
- What would be the downside of this?

Lets hear some answers, then I will tell what I think will change. I don't want to bias this thread!

In a way it would be much like the world before the US dollar (with, as I understand it, gold as the reserve currency) with one major difference: governments could transact trillions of dollars almost instantly at very little cost.

The concern that I see is that governments would likely have to create a mining arms race to maintain the security of the network. The U.S. could not allow China to control 51% of the network and vice versa, so billions would be spent to constantly keep a competitive hash rate. This would likely result in private mining becoming impractical. Governments might use their monopoly of the network to increase fees in an effort to recoup costs. As a result, Bitcoin transactions might become too expensive for anything but large institutional transactions.

Thoughts?

At first glance it seems to me that a constant hash rate race between states would mean millions and billions of money pretty much down the drain. Let's look at what is happening right now. More and more powerful mining equipment is being built, though it would be fair to ask, is there a purpose in this race that wouldn't be met with just ordinary computers but for needless competition?

[Eason]

Big circulation and transfer speed is the fundamental, second to countries to recognize the value of application of the currency

[pereira4]

Hey guys,

I was thinking about how the world would change if it used BTC as reserve currency in the future.

- What would need to change for this to happen?
- What would change once it actually is used for it?
- What would be the benefits of this?
- What would be the downside of this?

Lets hear some answers, then I will tell what I think will change. I don't want to bias this thread!

In a way it would be much like the world before the US dollar (with, as I understand it, gold as the reserve currency) with one major difference: governments could transact trillions of dollars almost instantly at very little cost.

The concern that I see is that governments would likely have to create a mining arms race to maintain the security of the network. The U.S. could not allow China to control 51% of the network and vice versa, so billions would be spent to constantly keep a competitive hash rate. This would likely result in private mining becoming impractical. Governments might use their monopoly of the network to increase fees in an effort to recoup costs. As a result, Bitcoin transactions might become too expensive for anything but large institutional transactions.

If these pitfalls were escaped, I suspect the exchange rate would become significantly more stable.

Thoughts?

Those are legit concerns, even tho i've read its not 51%, you would need more than it actually. We've had 51% scenareos before and nothing happened. My main concern is the transaction volume being too hardcore for the 1MB block size.

[aso118]

Those are legit concerns, even tho i've read its not 51%, you would need more than it actually. We've had 51% scenareos before and nothing happened. My main concern is the transaction volume being too hardcore for the 1MB block size.

The block size is not set in stone. It can be modified if and when the need arises.

[Financial_Genius]

Now the rise of Bitcoin serves the interests of a small but rapidly growing industry which offers everyone the hardware, specially "ground" under the high performance computing and allows you to "print" a new coin. So, in addition to pure speculators, the rising cost of "friend" is interested, this category of businessmen.However, it is necessary now to start thinking about what will happen when the dust settles, and earned on the provision of digital Klondike it all off to count the profits. The opened pattern can be very, very trivial – and not the fact that she would much like to state institutions, accustomed to consider themselves the exclusive guarantors of monetary circulation.In the XIX century there were a good joke: "gold fevers" most of the money earned by the sellers of tools for miners.