Max Keiser - "Libertarians are Intellectually Lazy & Idiots"

[dree12]

@Topic

Whatever Bitcoin's aftermath will be does not really matter. The point of Bitcoin is to offer a decentralized, fair, and cryptographically secure monetary system. To meet that primary goal, adoption by people from all kinds of cultures, opinions, and political views is necessary. It is not constructive to criticize those that support Bitcoin without supporting a socially liberal society.

[Matthew N. Wright]

@Topic

Whatever Bitcoin's aftermath will be does not really matter. The point of Bitcoin is to offer a decentralized, fair, and cryptographically secure monetary system. To meet that primary goal, adoption by people from all kinds of cultures, opinions, and political views is necessary. It is not constructive to criticize those that support Bitcoin without supporting a socially liberal society.

This +1

[myrkul]

@Topic

Whatever Bitcoin's aftermath will be does not really matter. The point of Bitcoin is to offer a decentralized, fair, and cryptographically secure monetary system. To meet that primary goal, adoption by people from all kinds of cultures, opinions, and political views is necessary. It is not constructive to criticize those that support Bitcoin without supporting a socially liberal society.

It's funny, I thought the title was "Max Keiser - "Libertarians are Intellectually Lazy & Idiots"," not "Max Keiser - "Statists are Intellectually Lazy & Idiots""

You're scolding the wrong people.

[dree12]

@Topic

Whatever Bitcoin's aftermath will be does not really matter. The point of Bitcoin is to offer a decentralized, fair, and cryptographically secure monetary system. To meet that primary goal, adoption by people from all kinds of cultures, opinions, and political views is necessary. It is not constructive to criticize those that support Bitcoin without supporting a socially liberal society.

It's funny, I thought the title was "Max Keiser - "Libertarians are Intellectually Lazy & Idiots"," not "Max Keiser - "Statists are Intellectually Lazy & Idiots""

You're scolding the wrong people.

I'm not scolding anyone, I'm pointing out that we shouldn't scold anyone supporting Bitcoin. Bitcoin is young, and all of its supporters should remain united in one principle: the support of Bitcoin.

[myrkul]

I'm not scolding anyone, I'm pointing out that we shouldn't scold anyone supporting Bitcoin. Bitcoin is young, and all of its supporters should remain united in one principle: the support of Bitcoin.

Now that, I can get behind.

And indeed, I do not go into the Bitcoin discussion board and lambast people for supporting a State while also supporting Bitcoin. But this is the Politics & Society board, so, back to our regularly scheduled arguing about politics.

[Vandroiy]

Who the hell is he, and why should we care?

I like how this thread is kind of concluded with the first answer.

Apparently, he's some loud man who is being funded by Russia of all places. I take it as a compliment to be insulted by that sort.

Also, derp -- the context makes no sense. He's acting as if Libertarians accept the breaking of financial contracts or something. One moment he talks that short-selling is somehow evil, then he's ranting how rocket launchers used by the public solve everything. Tha heck?

[420]

Money doesn't make politicians, people do. Money is just what gives them more power.

Why would Bitcoin be a means to achieve a political end?

Bitcoin, or it's successors, makes paying the State an entirely voluntary affair. They can't even prove how much you've got. When people cannot be forced into paying the State, the State must convince them to pay. That puts them in market competition, if not with each other, then at least with all the myriad other things money can buy.

screen capturing surveillance software coupled with fingerprint identifcation required logins to PC's

[hashman]

Bitcoin, or it's successors, makes paying the State an entirely voluntary affair. They can't even prove how much you've got. When people cannot be forced into paying the State, the State must convince them to pay. That puts them in market competition, if not with each other, then at least with all the myriad other things money can buy.

Hogwash.  It's easier to "prove how much you've got" with BTC then it is with paper fiat. 

If by "forced into paying the state" you are talking about taxes, you're just wrong.  The IRS could basically work just the same way, making you declare your income, auditing you to prove it, etc. 

If by "paying the state" you are talking about using an inflationary currency where the state is the beneficiary, you are 100% right

 

[myrkul]

Hogwash.  It's easier to "prove how much you've got" with BTC then it is with paper fiat. 

Really? My primary address is in my signature. This is the one that I have used to receive all my mining gains, any pay from projects, etc. How many Bitcoins do I have, all told?

[420]

Hogwash.  It's easier to "prove how much you've got" with BTC then it is with paper fiat. 

Really? My primary address is in my signature. This is the one that I have used to receive all my mining gains, any pay from projects, etc. How many Bitcoins do I have, all told?

0

[myrkul]

Hogwash.  It's easier to "prove how much you've got" with BTC then it is with paper fiat. 

Really? My primary address is in my signature. This is the one that I have used to receive all my mining gains, any pay from projects, etc. How many Bitcoins do I have, all told?

0

And you would be wrong.

Though in all fairness, I probably should have said "Bitcoin Denominated Assets".

[hashman]

Hogwash.  It's easier to "prove how much you've got" with BTC then it is with paper fiat. 

Really? My primary address is in my signature. This is the one that I have used to receive all my mining gains, any pay from projects, etc. How many Bitcoins do I have, all told?

Total Received    24.27672903 BTC ?

At least it's a start.  How much USD are in my safe at the moment? 

[myrkul]

Hogwash.  It's easier to "prove how much you've got" with BTC then it is with paper fiat. 

Really? My primary address is in my signature. This is the one that I have used to receive all my mining gains, any pay from projects, etc. How many Bitcoins do I have, all told?

Total Received    24.27672903 BTC ?

At least it's a start.  How much USD are in my safe at the moment? 

Ah, good point. I don't pretend to know. But can you carry those bills over the border in your brain?

And while you have determined how much BTC I've passed through that wallet address, You still have no idea how much I have now. In fact, maybe I lied when I told 420 he was wrong, and I am actually Bitcoin broke. Can you tell? Can you even tell where those coins all went?

[FirstAscent]

It's absurdly funny how some individuals think Bitcoin can stop taxes. That would only be the case if Bitcoin is never adopted wholeheartedly and you choose to live within the Bitcoin market while it is a fledgling movement without any real utility. However, if it was universally adopted, then what is taxed would just change to things such as:

- Crossing boundaries (tolls)
- Square footage of your residence
- Perimeter length of your properties

Bitcoin will not and cannot stop taxes. It can stop certain kinds of taxes. Universal adoption of Bitcoin will change tax structure, not eliminate it.

[Matthew N. Wright]

It's absurdly funny how some individuals think Bitcoin can stop taxes. That would only be the case if Bitcoin is never adopted wholeheartedly and you choose to live within the Bitcoin market while it is a fledgling movement without any real utility. However, if it was universally adopted, then what is taxed would just change to things such as:

- Crossing boundaries (tolls)
- Square footage of your residence
- Perimeter length of your properties

Bitcoin will not and cannot stop taxes. It can stop certain kinds of taxes. Universal adoption of Bitcoin will change tax structure, not eliminate it.

Agreed wholeheartedly. Unless we design a decentralized government, decentralized properties (seasteads?), etc, taxes are here to stay, they're just going to have to work harder to find out how much you really owe just like they had to find out a new way of measuring things each time technology has improved at anytime in our human history.

[niemivh]

niemivh: do you expect to gain some rep being so full of hot air or are you just trolling for the sake of it?

Define what you mean by 'hot air'.

You just did.

Yuk yuk yuk.  It's amateur night here at the stand-up club.

[hashman]

Hogwash.  It's easier to "prove how much you've got" with BTC then it is with paper fiat. 

Really? My primary address is in my signature. This is the one that I have used to receive all my mining gains, any pay from projects, etc. How many Bitcoins do I have, all told?

Total Received    24.27672903 BTC ?

At least it's a start.  How much USD are in my safe at the moment? 

Ah, good point. I don't pretend to know. But can you carry those bills over the border in your brain?

And while you have determined how much BTC I've passed through that wallet address, You still have no idea how much I have now. In fact, maybe I lied when I told 420 he was wrong, and I am actually Bitcoin broke. Can you tell? Can you even tell where those coins all went?

No I don't know, and yes you could do a pretty good job of hiding them and carrying them across the border as you point out. 
If I were a uniformed gang member so inclined I could try to figure it out in the usual way:  ask you, threaten you, and if I don't like your answer: take your stuff and lock you up.  Say that's a nice watch you have there... 

And +1 to FirstAscent, bitcoin won't stop taxes. 

In fact, general adoption could make collecting taxes -more- common, as coins will remove the ability for governments to issue currency to finance operations.  Unless they start new pre-mined chains  

[niemivh]

I consider a moral duty to do my best to not pay any tax, and that is one of the reasons I am into into bitcoins.

Is that because you don't agree with what the money is used for, or because you're an anarchist or something of that nature?

I am a political realist, therefore anarchist.
Besides, what is the point of taxes in a pure fiat money system?

This made me lul.  Thanks.

 

[niemivh]

Who the hell is he, and why should we care?

I like how this thread is kind of concluded with the first answer.

Apparently, he's some loud man who is being funded by Russia of all places. I take it as a compliment to be insulted by that sort.

Also, derp -- the context makes no sense. He's acting as if Libertarians accept the breaking of financial contracts or something. One moment he talks that short-selling is somehow evil, then he's ranting how rocket launchers used by the public solve everything. Tha heck?

It's because he's worked on Wall Street.  He inventing patents around algoTrading and knows how the system works - although he doesn't present that that well to someone who doesn't already know who he is.

Max is good for some things and understanding the daily workings of Wall St. is what he's best at.  Although his bombastic nature and raving make it simultaneously a humorous and over-the-top show.

In many regards the man knows what he's talking about.

[420]

Who the hell is he, and why should we care?

I like how this thread is kind of concluded with the first answer.

Apparently, he's some loud man who is being funded by Russia of all places. I take it as a compliment to be insulted by that sort.

Also, derp -- the context makes no sense. He's acting as if Libertarians accept the breaking of financial contracts or something. One moment he talks that short-selling is somehow evil, then he's ranting how rocket launchers used by the public solve everything. Tha heck?

It's because he's worked on Wall Street.  He inventing patents around algoTrading and knows how the system works - although he doesn't present that that well to someone who doesn't already know who he is.

Max is good for some things and understanding the daily workings of Wall St. is what he's best at.  Although his bombastic nature and raving make it simultaneously a humorous and over-the-top show.

In many regards the man knows what he's talking about.

Do you know of Michael Krieger?