[ANN] CRAVE 1st POS Masternodes | Dark Assets | I2P | Market =Embrace The Dark=

[Starin]

The updates sound good,  I still don't like 3 party escrow but I guess I could live with it
- you don't need a human 3rd party when you can have a trustless system controlling (multi-sig escrow & network can be "3rd party".)  

Well, what is the backup plan than? For example, the shipped item is damaged, used but listed as non-used etc. Who's gonna save the buyers ass?

Btw we are trying to setup a faucet with jj and if anyone has some php knowladge we could use some help right now.

[tkon3]

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Crave it ༼ ▀̿̿Ĺ̯̿̿▀̿ ̿ ༽ ʕ ͡•ᴥ ͡• ʔ ༼ ▀̿̿Ĺ̯̿̿▀̿ ̿ ༽

[rocoro]

The updates sound good,  I still don't like 3 party escrow but I guess I could live with it
- you don't need a human 3rd party when you can have a trustless system controlling (multi-sig escrow & network can be "3rd party".)  

Well, what is the backup plan than? For example, the shipped item is damaged, used but listed as non-used etc. Who's gonna save the buyers ass?

In a two party trustless system it works like this:
If the buyer does not receive the good/service or finds them unsatisfactory, they can request a refund from the seller. The refund request constructs a transaction which sends the deposits to their respective parties but returns the payment to the buyer. If the seller approves the refund, the transaction is completed in a similar process to how the escrow was locked.

The seller would have no motivation to rip off the buyer and hurt his ratings.  

A 3 party, human reliant system can set up people for long cons and other scams when sellers and the 3rd party collude.

[industrialcoinmagic]

The updates sound good,  I still don't like 3 party escrow but I guess I could live with it
- you don't need a human 3rd party when you can have a trustless system controlling (multi-sig escrow & network can be "3rd party".)  

Well, what is the backup plan than? For example, the shipped item is damaged, used but listed as non-used etc. Who's gonna save the buyers ass?

In a two party trustless system it works like this:
If the buyer does not receive the good/service or finds them unsatisfactory, they can request a refund from the seller. The refund request constructs a transaction which sends the deposits to their respective parties but returns the payment to the buyer. If the seller approves the refund, the transaction is completed in a similar process to how the escrow was locked.

The seller would have no motivation to rip off the buyer and hurt his ratings.  

A 3 party, human reliant system can set up people for long cons and other scams when sellers and the 3rd party collude.

Maybe in theory, but in practice 2 party just doesn't work that cleanly.

[rocoro]

Maybe in theory, but in practice 2 party just doesn't work that cleanly.

I think they both have flaws,  humans are subject to greed and error..  I don't necessarily trust that as a third party.

[olcaytu2005]

Maybe in theory, but in practice 2 party just doesn't work that cleanly.

I think they both have flaws,  humans are subject to greed and error..  I don't necessarily trust that as a third party.

if you are not face to face with it, then everything is need 3 party.

[rocoro]

Any update on the fix for sync'ing the blockchain and/or importing a bootstrap.dat? 

Or do we still need to rely on downloading whole blockchain data that could be tampered with?

[Starin]

The updates sound good,  I still don't like 3 party escrow but I guess I could live with it
- you don't need a human 3rd party when you can have a trustless system controlling (multi-sig escrow & network can be "3rd party".)  

Well, what is the backup plan than? For example, the shipped item is damaged, used but listed as non-used etc. Who's gonna save the buyers ass?

In a two party trustless system it works like this:
If the buyer does not receive the good/service or finds them unsatisfactory, they can request a refund from the seller. The refund request constructs a transaction which sends the deposits to their respective parties but returns the payment to the buyer. If the seller approves the refund, the transaction is completed in a similar process to how the escrow was locked.

The seller would have no motivation to rip off the buyer and hurt his ratings.  

A 3 party, human reliant system can set up people for long cons and other scams when sellers and the 3rd party collude.

That's funny. Why would a vendor or a market would want to crush his ratings in 3rd party system? I would request a payback and simply don't ship the item. Can computer solve my problem? No.

[rocoro]

The updates sound good,  I still don't like 3 party escrow but I guess I could live with it
- you don't need a human 3rd party when you can have a trustless system controlling (multi-sig escrow & network can be "3rd party".)  

Well, what is the backup plan than? For example, the shipped item is damaged, used but listed as non-used etc. Who's gonna save the buyers ass?

In a two party trustless system it works like this:
If the buyer does not receive the good/service or finds them unsatisfactory, they can request a refund from the seller. The refund request constructs a transaction which sends the deposits to their respective parties but returns the payment to the buyer. If the seller approves the refund, the transaction is completed in a similar process to how the escrow was locked.

The seller would have no motivation to rip off the buyer and hurt his ratings.  

A 3 party, human reliant system can set up people for long cons and other scams when sellers and the 3rd party collude.

That's funny. Why would a vendor or a market would want to crush his ratings in 3rd party system? I would request a payback and simply don't ship the item. Can computer solve my problem? No.

Have you ever heard of the "long con" ?   Certain names come to mind, like moolah.
Now that I think of it, this is also akin to how some eBay sellers with huge ratings will operate too.

[tkon3]

No orphan ?   or you didnt stake for days/weeks.

[rocoro]

I like your screenshots !  Nice 

[solid12345]

Have you ever heard of the "long con" ?   Certain names come to mind, like moolah.
Now that I think of it, this is also akin to how some eBay sellers with huge ratings will operate too.

Just playing devil's advocate, I came from the ebay world before I got into crypto and I've found sellers with good ratings generally ARE trustworthy, it's the newb buyers who screw you, and unfortunately ebay almost ALWAYS takes their side vs the seller even when its obvious who the crook is.

Anyway I'm not worried as much because I believe ICM said in his system there will be no instances of a marketplace owner having access to the cash where he can just run off with the reserves. I think they just handle disputes and collect a fee after.

[rocoro]

Anyway I'm not worried as much because I believe ICM said in his system there will be no instances of a marketplace owner having access to the cash where he can just run off with the reserves. I think they just handle disputes and collect a fee after.

Yeah, but if a SELLER AND MARKETPLACE OWNER collude,  then they can take your money.  
Plus if they have known reputation - again in the long run - they can scam a lot of people!

I get the feeling some of you don't understand how long cons work.

Problem is, this could happen in a 2 party system too.. so I guess any system is not 100% foolproof.

[rocoro]

These were reasons another coin didn't want to choose 3rd party:

Choice of Two Party Escrow
To appreciate the value of the two party escrow system and why it is so important for secure, private and middle men free exchange, it is worth considering problems with the traditional approach of using a 3rd party escrow agent.

In a third party escrow system the buyer and seller ask a third trusted party (an escrow agent) to receive payment from the buyer before the item is delivered and to then release the payment to the seller after the item is delivered. If there is a dispute about the quality of the item or whether it was delivered, the third party acts as a mediator and decides whether to send the payment or refund the buyer. Some of the problems with this model include:

•    Unless escrow agent receives the item before forwarding it to the buyer and has the expertise to verify the quality of the item, they have no means of fairly mediating a dispute. This problem becomes much worse when services are being exchanged. Proof of package delivery doesn't verify what was delivered or it's quality and photos from the buyer could be of another item, etc.
•    Credit cards and centralized marketplaces seem like existence proofs of working escrow agents but they are non-anonymous, do not resolve disputes fairly (as most small merchants can tell you) and are known to break in markets with high fraud potential (e.g. third world countries, porn, etc).
•    Untrustworthy escrow agents who may steal escrow, fail to release escrow or collude with (or be) one of the parties.
•    Escrow agents with strong reputation may be doing a long con to take off with or extort a large payment or group of payments.
•    Escrow agent expenses in the form of labor and risk are passed on to the buyer and seller.
•    Finding a trustworthy agent requires a reputation system and building reputation systems in anonymous networks remains an unsolved problem.

Fortunately, two party escrow made possible by (another coin) multi-signature transactions can solve all of these problems.

It does bring up another point I forgot,  what if the marketplace owner is also the seller (pretending to be separate parties!) ... hmm that would not be good.
I guess, I just agree with most of those reasons.  
I think some of those same things *could*, in different ways, happen also in a 2 party system though.

Just my opinions... I own both coins so whatever turns out to be more popular is fine with me.

[iGotSpots]

Just wanted to let everyone in here know about our dedicated staking hardware. Save electricity, and increase your coin's security, get them off of your home computer, and onto the StakeBox. Check it out at stakebox.com. Go ahead, get your long term support cred, buy the device meant to stake your coins for the long haul.

Lololol

[paolo77]

Just wanted to let everyone in here know about our dedicated staking hardware. Save electricity, and increase your coin's security, get them off of your home computer, and onto the StakeBox. Check it out at stakebox.com. Go ahead, get your long term support cred, buy the device meant to stake your coins for the long haul.

Hello, coins that supports POS? you can buy only the image? You could sell to those who have already the raspberry pi 2 !!!

[ocminer]

Just wanted to let everyone in here know about our dedicated staking hardware. Save electricity, and increase your coin's security, get them off of your home computer, and onto the StakeBox. Check it out at stakebox.com. Go ahead, get your long term support cred, buy the device meant to stake your coins for the long haul.

looks like you're selling a raspberri pi in a standard enclosure with a sticker on it

i hope at least there is some custom software on that thing... Price is really ridiculous for a Pi  

[satashito]

I love crave <3

[Starin]

Anyway I'm not worried as much because I believe ICM said in his system there will be no instances of a marketplace owner having access to the cash where he can just run off with the reserves. I think they just handle disputes and collect a fee after.

Yeah, but if a SELLER AND MARKETPLACE OWNER collude,  then they can take your money.  
Plus if they have known reputation - again in the long run - they can scam a lot of people!

I get the feeling some of you don't understand how long cons work.

Problem is, this could happen in a 2 party system too.. so I guess any system is not 100% foolproof.

I agree with you. No system can exactly guarentee safety of both parts but I believe having a market looked 10000 coins would be more trustful both for a veteran seller and newbie buyer. To assume the market owner wouldn't danger his reputition for couple of coins are more likely. Plus there will be (I assume there aren't any yet) seller / market ratings and review /forum sites about them.

[StakeBox]

Just wanted to let everyone in here know about our dedicated staking hardware. Save electricity, and increase your coin's security, get them off of your home computer, and onto the StakeBox. Check it out at stakebox.com. Go ahead, get your long term support cred, buy the device meant to stake your coins for the long haul.

looks like you're selling a raspberri pi in a standard enclosure with a sticker on it

i hope at least there is some custom software on that thing... Price is really ridiculous for a Pi  

You are right, it is a Raspberry Pi 2, in a standard enclosure, with a sticker on it. Your hope is also right, there is some custom software on it. Mainly the web interface for the wallets, negating the need for any additional hardware. You can leave it sitting by your router and check up on your wallets from any internet connected device on you home network. The pre-installed wallets are another equally important piece of software. There are constantly people seeking help installing various wallet on the Pi. This product is really directed at those without the time, knowledge, or patience do set this up themselves, and anyone else just looking for a plug and play solution.