VOD - Abusing Trust System

[FuckIdolPlus]

Theft is no longer illegal?  You guys seem to forget about the people who are out the licenses when this happens.

Idol is no more than a petty thief.

Well you can't say that he is a thief either. We don't have any evidence to go with. We can't say he's a thief just because this "seems shady". I actually believe that people are innocent until proven otherwise.

Check my post above this one.  I've proven he is shady and is a liar. 

Let's suppose I'm a liar, just for argument's sake, what about other people, you bombed with neg trust? Making up stories won't get you anywhere. Anyone can go to dev tools in their browsers and generate the screenshot you shared with everyone.


You need to accept you are a scumbag trying to manipulate the forums.

[1715003853]

1715003853

[Tomatocage]

Vod may be a bit liberal with his down-ratings, but in your case I believe it's accurate. You tried to claim a negative rating for him, indicating a 21 BTC risked amount, which you later deleted. Then you claimed you would donate 19 BTC to charity, which is another lie (and probably multiple lies, since I suspect you don't even have 19 BTC to begin with).

[redsn0w]

Vod may be a bit liberal with his down-ratings, but in your case I believe it's accurate. You tried to claim a negative rating for him, indicating a 21 BTC risked amount, which you later deleted. Then you claimed you would donate 19 BTC to charity, which is another lie (and probably multiple lies, since I suspect you don't even have 19 BTC to begin with).

How can we trust a liar? This is the real problem but I don't know if the negative trust is really necessary. It is a decision up to Vod and they should discuss privately. Why open a thread?

[chmod755]

What I call abusing the trust system is selling rated accounts like this person here.

I'm wondering why this post has not been reported and why there's no negative rating on this user.

Edit: Just realized that the person who owns this account is willing to get the ratings removed.

[redsn0w]

What I call abusing the trust system is selling rated accounts like this person here.

I'm wondering why this post has not been reported and why there's no negative rating on this user.

I think because it is not against the forum rules selling & buying forum accounts, or am I wrong? There are a few trusted users that are selling accounts here in the forum (for example Quickseller).

[chmod755]

I think because it is not against the forum rules selling & buying forum accounts, or am I wrong? There are a few trusted users that are selling accounts here in the forum (for example Quickseller).

I have no problem with buying / selling accounts in general (you can use them to join signature campaigns,etc.), but selling accounts with positive ratings is very questionable IMO

[redsn0w]

I think because it is not against the forum rules selling & buying forum accounts, or am I wrong? There are a few trusted users that are selling accounts here in the forum (for example Quickseller).

I have no problem with buying / selling accounts in general (you can use them to join signature campaigns), but selling accounts with positive ratings is very questionable IMO

I think you are missing the point, green trust doesn't mean you or someone else should not use an escrow. So also if a "scammer" will buy a positive trust forum account he cannot scam, because everyone know that "we" should use always an escrow.

[xetsr]

I think because it is not against the forum rules selling & buying forum accounts, or am I wrong? There are a few trusted users that are selling accounts here in the forum (for example Quickseller).

I have no problem with buying / selling accounts in general (you can use them to join signature campaigns), but selling accounts with positive ratings is very questionable IMO

I think you are missing the point, green trust doesn't mean you or someone else should not use an escrow. So also if a "scammer" will buy a positive trust forum account he cannot scam, because everyone know that "we" should use always an escrow.

You're missing the point chmod755 is trying to make. It's much easier to gain the trust of the person you're trying to con by using a green positive account then a account with no trust. A lot of the newer members around here trust accounts based on their positive feedback. Escrow should still be used but most of the time it isn't and that's when the scams happen.

[Quickseller]

I think because it is not against the forum rules selling & buying forum accounts, or am I wrong? There are a few trusted users that are selling accounts here in the forum (for example Quickseller).

I have no problem with buying / selling accounts in general (you can use them to join signature campaigns,etc.), but selling accounts with positive ratings is very questionable IMO

Well having positive trust means that your account has additional value and there is no reason why you should not try to get all of the value out of something when you sell it, that is how a free market works.

There are plenty of non scam reasons to buy a positive trust account, the prestige of having positive trust, the ability to potentially offer your services that would only be able to be sold by people with positive trust, are only two reasons that come to mind.  

[xetsr]

I think because it is not against the forum rules selling & buying forum accounts, or am I wrong? There are a few trusted users that are selling accounts here in the forum (for example Quickseller).

I have no problem with buying / selling accounts in general (you can use them to join signature campaigns,etc.), but selling accounts with positive ratings is very questionable IMO

Well having positive trust means that your account has additional value and there is no reason why you should not try to get all of the value out of something when you sell it, that is how a free market works.

There are plenty of non scam reasons to buy a positive trust account, the prestige of having positive trust, the ability to potentially offer your services that would only be able to be sold by people with positive trust, are only two reasons that come to mind.  

Members get negative feedback for trying to buy trust like in the loan section. That's not ok according to some.. but it's ok to buy accounts with positive trust? No negative feedback is left for them. What's the difference? The trust is still bought.

[chmod755]

I think you are missing the point, green trust doesn't mean you or someone else should not use an escrow. So also if a "scammer" will buy a positive trust forum account he cannot scam, because everyone know that "we" should use always an escrow.

I'm pretty sure that many newbies could be tricked.

Well having positive trust means that your account has additional value and there is no reason why you should not try to get all of the value out of something when you sell it, that is how a free market works.

There are plenty of non scam reasons to buy a positive trust account, the prestige of having positive trust, the ability to potentially offer your services that would only be able to be sold by people with positive trust, are only two reasons that come to mind.  

What's the point of a trust system if people are selling trust? Trust is like love, if you buy it, it's fake.

[Quickseller]

Well trust does have some level of value and the fact that it is sold does degrade its value (and is not something that I will generally engage in). However someone that does buy trust one way or another is going to have an incentive not to scam because if they are caught trying to scam then they will lose all the value of the trust they have purchased.

The key to people protecting themselves is to be sure that one person is not being trusted with more money (both your money and other's money) then the value of their trust. As long as they are being trusted with less money then their trust is worth then they will generally not scam.

[redsn0w]

I think because it is not against the forum rules selling & buying forum accounts, or am I wrong? There are a few trusted users that are selling accounts here in the forum (for example Quickseller).

I have no problem with buying / selling accounts in general (you can use them to join signature campaigns), but selling accounts with positive ratings is very questionable IMO

I think you are missing the point, green trust doesn't mean you or someone else should not use an escrow. So also if a "scammer" will buy a positive trust forum account he cannot scam, because everyone know that "we" should use always an escrow.

You're missing the point chmod755 is trying to make. It's much easier to gain the trust of the person you're trying to con by using a green positive account then a account with no trust. A lot of the newer members around here trust accounts based on their positive feedback. Escrow should still be used but most of the time it isn't and that's when the scams happen.

Then in this case users should start to use always (yes always) an escrow, because no one know if someone is behind 2-3 or more forum accounts. This is the real problem of selling/buying account (and I think it will be never resolved). I don't use an escrow with the people that I know in the real life (this is normal, because I trust them). but almost always I have used an escrow service here in the forum for trade with the other person (that I don't know in real life).

PS: this is my personal choice, but I suggest always the use of an escrow for every deal.

[BeetcoinScummer]

I would like to take a moment to dispell the notion that MSDN keys sold on the forum are taken from stolen retail MSDN accounts that cost some hapless souls thousands upon thousands of dollars.

Please familiarize yourself with the Microsoft Bizspark program. Under the Bizspark program you just need to set up a shell company with a website and declare yourself to be some kind of startup that intends to be a Microsoft soutions provider or ISV. You then send an application to Microsoft's Bizspark program which requires a $100 application fee. If your application looks legit enough, Microsoft will admit your company into the Bizspark program which lasts 3 years.

This entitles you to 1 Bizspark admin account which in turn can invite up to 4 other sub-accounts.  The main account and sub accounts each are entitled to 3 years worth of the MSDN Ultimate subscription, plus $150 of monthly Azure credits. So basically for $100 and a litlle know-how you get 3 years worth of 5x MSDN Ultimate subscriptions easily worth $180K retail if purchased on a yearly basis. Most of if not all of the keys, invites and admin accounts (well, of course) sold on this forum are from the Bizspark program.

So nobody is losing thousands of dollars from the sale of these MSDN keys.

[symantec]

I would like to take a moment to dispell the notion that MSDN keys sold on the forum are taken from stolen retail MSDN accounts that cost some hapless souls thousands upon thousands of dollars.

Please familiarize yourself with the Microsoft Bizspark program. Under the Bizspark program you just need to set up a shell company with a website and declare yourself to be some kind of startup that intends to be a Microsoft soutions provider or ISV. You then send an application to Microsoft's Bizspark program which requires a $100 application fee. If your application looks legit enough, Microsoft will admit your company into the Bizspark program which lasts 3 years.

This entitles you to 1 Bizspark admin account which in turn can invite up to 4 other sub-accounts.  The main account and sub accounts each are entitled to 3 years worth of the MSDN Ultimate subscription, plus $150 of monthly Azure credits. So basically for $100 and a litlle know-how you get 3 years worth of 5x MSDN Ultimate subscriptions easily worth $180K retail if purchased on a yearly basis. Most of if not all of the keys, invites and admin accounts (well, of course) sold on this forum are from the Bizspark program.

So nobody is losing thousands of dollars from the sale of these MSDN keys.

In my opinion, he did use a lot of their powers to impose on all the members of this forum.

If you want to stop all transactions here it is best not to have this forum and should not exist Bitcoin.

Or Do not put the list Marketplace here, Please remove it from forum

[Wardrick]

This would probably be a question for Theymos. If you're going to start leaving negative feedback for these types of trades, you have to do it for everyone whether it's people selling unlimited HBOGo accounts, large amounts of gift cards, discounted drop shipping services, etc, as there is probable cause they are fraudulently obtained. It would essentially be confining the marketplace, which as a whole Theymos would probably not like because he's all about freedom. Also selectively using power to leave negative feedback when there are other people knowingly participating in the same activities is not good and in the long run wouldn't be a successful form of governance.

Here are the current Market Rules in case nobodies taken the time to read them - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3629.0

[abyrnes81]

No one is abusing the trust system, it is only a negative trust and it should not stop you to trade here on bitcointalk.org ; you have only to use always a valid and trusted escrow.

[ajw7989]

No one is abusing the trust system, it is only a negative trust and it should not stop you to trade here on bitcointalk.org ; you have only to use always a valid and trusted escrow.

But it actually does. Look at my tag now because Vod gave me one negative trust. Sure you can look at my feedback and see 20-30 people giving me positive trust but sad that one feedback can hurt u that much. How many people would take the time to look at the actual comment left

[redsn0w]

No one is abusing the trust system, it is only a negative trust and it should not stop you to trade here on bitcointalk.org ; you have only to use always a valid and trusted escrow.

But it actually does. Look at my tag now because Vod gave me one negative trust. Sure you can look at my feedback and see 20-30 people giving me positive trust but sad that one feedback can hurt u that much. How many people would take the time to look at the actual comment left

It is normal, because no one will click on your trust point and read why do you have that negative trust. However you should contact Vod privately and ask if he can remove it (but I have read in his signature "Want your negative trust removed?  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=887515.0" you should wait one month).

[Vod]

No one is abusing the trust system, it is only a negative trust and it should not stop you to trade here on bitcointalk.org ; you have only to use always a valid and trusted escrow.

But it actually does. Look at my tag now because Vod gave me one negative trust. Sure you can look at my feedback and see 20-30 people giving me positive trust but sad that one feedback can hurt u that much. How many people would take the time to look at the actual comment left

It is normal, because no one will click on your trust point and read why do you have that negative trust. However you should contact Vod privately and ask if he can remove it (but I have read in his signature "Want your negative trust removed?  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=887515.0" you should wait one month).

ajw7989 locked his MSDN thread and promised to stop selling keys.  I have removed his negative trust.