Why the darkcoin/dash/dashpay instamine matters

[PoS]

yes evan intentionally launched the coin with a "bug" to get rid of every early miner
yes evan misled people....
yes evan withheld information...
yes evan instamint premined
yes evan had a gpu miner long before anyone else
yes evan is a fraudster
yes evan lied, ASIC Resistant, the max coin amount is 84,000,000......
yes evan was an active buyer in the "redistribution" phase
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg5007248#msg5007248


XCoin->Darkcoin->Dasher

[generalizethis]

Trolls, how much are you being paid?? Any jobs going?

Yes, in a way, we are being motivated by spending, but it seems to be Dash's side as it unites people who aren't obsessed with greed and care more about real functionality than they do about rainbow dreams of instawealth.

Very quick diagnosis. The dash instamine matters because: even though BTC by all accounts had a fair launch, it still enjoys the label of ponzi by some in the media and still has yet to jump any mass adoption hurdles. What do you think this same media will do if dash were to make a play as BTC's replacement? Do you think a coin that looks, smells, and most importantly reads in Evan's own quotation marks as a fraud is going to be ushered to the throne without a massive media assault?  Because billionaires and governments like having their money replaced by a top heavy band of pseudo-cypherpunks with the moral compass of a fraternity next to a rohypnol factory. So yes, dash supporter, everyone is paid to get you, but ironically by your own hand. And if you think it is bad now, you have no idea of the shit storm that would be leveled at you if you even got a whiff of BTC's market cap.

If Evan had really wanted to replace BTC, he would have foreseen every thing I just outlined and realized there were only two options: 1. a fair relaunch or 2. admit it was an instamine and said "a dev has got to get paid how a dev has got to get paid". He didn't--he wanted the benefit of an instamine without the perception of greed, but didn't think far enough ahead to see his creation as a replacement for BTC and what the consequences of his actions would be if he ever truly got on the same playing field as BTC. The fact that his coin made it to the top five with this hanging over its head should be congratulations enough--the market rewarding his misplayed strategy with being the heir to Satoshi's kingdom is a pipe-dream wrapped in rainbows flecked with fairy dust.

[Jeff8247]

I really don't understand the hate in the crypto world? If you don't like the project and think its a scam, call it a scam and leave it at that. Yes i know you say your here to save the noobies but remember people have to choice to invest or not and ultimately it should fail if your right.

I actually own both DASH & XMR and find it hilarious...

[generalizethis]

I really don't understand the hate in the crypto world? If you don't like the project and think its a scam, call it a scam and leave it at that. Yes i know you say your here to save the noobies but remember people have to choice to invest or not and ultimately it should fail if your right.

I actually own both DASH & XMR and find it hilarious...

And I don't hate dash (it's an inanimate code) I just hate that I'm told by Dash shills that the instamine doesn't matter (ethically and strategically it does) and that Evan won't own up to his leadership failure in that pivotal moment, but insists on maintaining that Dash is replacement worthy of BTC--I don't know if he drinks his own koolaid or is too stupid to realize it was impossible from day one.

[fluffypony]

I really don't understand the hate in the crypto world? If you don't like the project and think its a scam, call it a scam and leave it at that. Yes i know you say your here to save the noobies but remember people have to choice to invest or not and ultimately it should fail if your right.

I actually own both DASH & XMR and find it hilarious...

Imagine, if you will, that you have a good friend who has been diagnosed with cancer. It's malignant, but operable, as it has been caught early enough.

Your friend tells you that he's decided to forego the operation, as he's heard about this Austrian guy, Dr. D Uffield, who has developed a cure for cancer. Plus it won't interfere with his lifestyle, all he has to do is eat 2 carrots a day, 1 African potato, and every month at full moon he must slaughter a chicken and dance around it. Surely you would be shocked to your very core that he's foregoing conventional treatment for what is clearly garbage with no basis in medical science?

To make matters worse, a cursory check reveals that Dr. D Uffield has no medical degree, and instead has a doctorate in theology. He isn't even licensed to practice any form of medicine, much less practice modern medicine as a medical doctor. You tell your friend, in the hopes of helping him avoid catastrophe, but he insists that this is going to cure him. In the face of all reason he ignores your advice and barrels ahead with this crazy treatment.

Months go by, and every time you try and remind your friend that there is no scientific basis for this treatment he screams at you, insulting you and telling you that you're just jealous that he has found this treatment and you haven't (you don't even have cancer!) To make matters worse he starts roping in all of the cancer patients at his support group, convincing them to quit their medical treatment and move to this alternate care regimen. Eventually you catch a break: Dr. Uffield moves his practice to America in an attempt to find legitimacy on the Dr. Oz show. In the mess of the move his chief aide, Nurse V. Ertoe, promptly resigns, and publicly calls out the sham.

This is it, you think, you finally have the piece of evidence to convince your friend! You print out all of the medical research you've collected over the months, and present it to him at his support group along with this clincher of a statement from the nurse. Instead of being convinced, he doubles down on his beliefs, and the cancer patients alongside him shout you out the room with cries of "FUD!" and "TROLL!" One of the more prominent members of the group has even left a pamphlet on your car explaining why Dr. Uffield's carrot/potato/chicken/dance regimen is "fit for purpose", and that modern medicine is just "weighed down with mountains of medical science" when all you really need is a visionary, regardless of where he got his doctorate and what field it's in.

At this point how would you feel about Dr. Uffield and his regimen? Irrational hate? Disgust at his abuse of power?

And would you just shut up indefinitely, or would you try and help newcomers that join the support group not get tricked into using medical care that has virtually no basis in medical science?

So it is for us when we observe snake oil and an obvious scam being punted by means of a cryptocurrency that has virtually no basis in cryptography.

[illodin]

So it is for us when we observe snake oil and an obvious scam being punted by means of a cryptocurrency that has virtually no basis in cryptography.

Did you read what your hero gmaxwell said what actually is cryptography?

Cryptography is all that technology by which we hope to confine and constrain the nature of information, to put up fences and direct it to our exclusive purposes, against all attacks and in defiance of the seemingly (and perhaps actually) impossible.

Regarding your story, the difference is that you know what a carrot, a potato, full moon, and a chicken are. Whereas you have been very keen to point out shortcomings of DRK/DASH without actually understanding what it is.

For example, you have claimed InstantX is just Bitcoin's Green Addresses, which it isn't. From reading the description it is clear they are very different, as a Green Address recipient has to trust the previously published sending address not to double spend whereas InstantX is trustless.

Another example, you were criticizing DarkSend thinking you'll get tainted coins back as a change after a transaction. That would severely weaken the anonymity, which is why DarkSend doesn't work like that. 

All this baffles me, as you seem to be familiar with cryptography, at least enough so to understand DRK/DASH if you bothered to find out about it.

[hodlmybtc]

If you see fraud, and don't shout "fraud", you are a fraud.

Looking at the Darkcoin's dev, when people in Bitcointalk talk about the dev's instamine, and it is able to check via Abe explorer.
Today, he decided to do "Airdrop" 2,000,000 DRK ( are you kidding me ?, he instamine 2 millions darkcoins or almost 18 million USD)
Such a good dev, if people cannot catch his trick, he will definitely go with his instamine.

The first 24 hours of the coins existence keep causing us problems, an "airdrop" could be a solution to this. We could airdrop all holders (uniquely verified) with a equal portion of coin. This coin would come from a block in the future that paid 2 million+ coins to a specific address that I hold. We could use some kind of verification system like mastercoin (http://mastercoin-faucet.com/github-intro)
The airdrop would be a month or so into the future, so it would give users time to buy coins and become holders creating some demand. Also, we'd have a much larger market cap and the argument about the first 24 hours would become invalid.

How would you get a part of the airdrop?

- You must own 100DRK ( if you're new to Darkcoin but want to be part of the drop, you would need to purchase 100DRK ).

One of the following:
- Github: To redeem this reward, you need either at least three public repositories and your account must be older than August 1, 2013
- Reddit: To redeem this reward, you need a Reddit account with more than 100 karma.
- Bitcointalk: To redeem this reward you need an activity score above 10 as well as at least 10 posts

Any of these accounts would need to be created before April 1, 2014.
Vote!

Let's take a look at the first 5 h of Darkcoin (XCoin at that time)...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4589219#msg4589219
Edufield said (after failed launch) that he will wait the next day to launch DRK (XCoin at that time) it is 11 pm.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4591407#msg4591407
Edufield disregard windows wallet and daemon and hurry up his launch, presumably to not have windows miners on board.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4592827#msg4592827
Edufield say he added four nodes for the launch at 4 am (5 hours later, despite his promise to wait). The 4 nodes from Edufield are 3 amazons AWS + another unknown (whois IP). Launch started at 3h54 am.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4593601#msg4593601
Edufield said the github version was not updated, nobody could compile and only Edufield was able to mine until that time. It is 5.09 am and Edufield instamined alone 1153 block at 500 DRK + 60 block at reward 277 = 593120 DRK for him alone in about 1 hour.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4593987#msg4593987
No windows wallet confirmed at 5h47 am, despite a user attempt to make one avaiable, that Edufield dismissed quickly.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4594096#msg4594096
Illodin, understand dev has instamined alot of coin.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4595573#msg4595573
From this list of nodes, at 8h34 am (4h40 after launch) there were 50 Amazon AWS node and 50 microsoft cloud computing instamining DRK (checked using IP whois service). This is 100/124 nodes using cloud computing to instamine DRK. We are at block 2870 and block reward is 500. From block 1153-1729 block reward is 277. After that it is 500 again hence 2294 block at 500 + 576 at 277 = 1306552 DRK (worth about 13M$ now) were instamined in less than 5 hour by Edufield and coworkers using about 100 cloud mining instances. Edufield himself instamined in not even 5 h from 600K to 1169K DRK ((1306K-600K)*100/124 + 600K) depending how many of the 100 cloud mining instance were its own. All this while having purposefully set the difficult ridiculously low and block reward 100 times what it is now.

From 6M$ - 13M$ in 5 h, Edufield did some lucrative work here!

Edufield is nominee for the Master Scammer 2014 award!

THE FACTS ABOUT DARK COIN

1. released without windows QT so that only dev and pals could mine it.

2. Instamined harder than any other coin out there  12.5% of the current minting was mined in the first day

3. Later they decided to cut the minting by 75% to turn their 12.5% instamine with no windows QT into 50% instamine in 24hours - nice hey


yes that is correct they mined 50% of all the coins available at this time by themselves in the first 24 hours whilst windows users could not mine.


That is the facts.... doesn't matter what else they say... nothing can change what they have done.

Once zero coin, or bytecoin with a decent wallet it released or another darkcoin clone is released.... dark coin will sink like a stone.


Every time they try to spam their coin just post this to remind them of the facts about their coin.

hehe they will accuse anyone to hide their scam...

LET THEM ARGUE WITH THESE FACTS

1.  The block reward was 500 every couple seconds at launch!  Not 20 or 50 coins every 2.5 minutes as listed.  There was also no windows wallet so only linux users could mine.  This allowed about 1.7-2 million Darkcoins to be instamined in the first 24hours.  Representing about 50% OF ALL DARKCOINS CURRENTLY IN EXISTENCE!!!  All mined in the first 24hours by just a few wallets.  Then the rules were changed increasing the block time to 2.5 minutes and eliminating the 500 block reward, (but only after the instaminers had claimed 2 million or so coins first.)

2.  Today many of those day 1 instamined coins have already been sold and right now approx 24% of all Darkcoins are held in just 10 wallets.  This could be 10 people or it could be simply Evan with 10 different wallets.

3.  My opinion is that it is unfair and unfortunate that this occurred and IMO it represents a very real risk to Darkcoin in that there is an opening for a good dev to make an Identical X11 coin that has all the attributes of Darkcoin, plus a few more features, and have a truly fair and equitable launch.  The instamining will continue to be brought up as it currently represents about a 10% premine given the Dev recently reduced the total coins that will ever be in existence to around 22million!


noob fools saying i think it is nice people mining early get more coins...lol you silly noobs.

you would all be crying when a coin comes out with no wallet and a HUGE HUGE HUGE % of minting is mined in 24hours that you will never have a chance at you silly people.

keep quiet over thing you don't understand.


Just print this to anything they say!!!!!!

1.  The block reward was 500 every couple seconds at launch!  Not 20 or 50 coins every 2.5 minutes as listed.  There was also no windows wallet so only linux users could mine.  This allowed about 1.7-2 million Darkcoins to be instamined in the first 24hours.  Representing about 50% OF ALL DARKCOINS CURRENTLY IN EXISTENCE!!!  All mined in the first 24hours by just a few wallets.  Then the rules were changed increasing the block time to 2.5 minutes and eliminating the 500 block reward, (but only after the instaminers had claimed 2 million or so coins first.)

2.  Today many of those day 1 instamined coins have already been sold and right now approx 24% of all Darkcoins are held in just 10 wallets.  This could be 10 people or it could be simply Evan with 10 different wallets.

3.  My opinion is that it is unfair and unfortunate that this occurred and IMO it represents a very real risk to Darkcoin in that there is an opening for a good dev to make an Identical X11 coin that has all the attributes of Darkcoin, plus a few more features, and have a truly fair and equitable launch.  The instamining will continue to be brought up as it currently represents about a 10% premine given the Dev recently reduced the total coins that will ever be in existence to around 22million!


the more they try to justify or excuse it the more people get to read about the scam..............

in the end they will accept it is best to shut up about it and hope people forget.

Even the member who support Darkcoin also accepted that Darkcoin was instamine as below.

Fact: 100.000 DRKs cost 2.5 BTC to buy for 15 days after launch. The entire worth of the instamine was less than 50 BTC at then rates.

Fact2: People bought, the instamine was distributed

Fact3: People sold later on locking profits of 10x-100x etc

Fact4: People who bought from those who sold at 0.00018 / 0.0005 / 0.0012-0.002, also got gains of 10-20x+

Keep trolling

Here is the log from dark topic.

Of course its a scam, anyone whit half a brain knows this, but in the cryproworld its just another one to add to the ever growing list.

It originaly launched a few minutes before the official launch time on the 18^th January 9:58 (5pm EST)


Because the code was full of bugs a restart was necessary, it then officially launched at 11pm EST


The coin was 5 min old the first screams of instamine


.
So we finally mate it to the active blockchain. The dev mate sure it is the worst possible launch time for Europe and America, but he at least it was a good time for Kiribati.
Sunday at 4 in the morning is a sure time you find most miners waiting for a launch.



The coin is barly a few minutes old and the dev is already throwing the coins by the thousands



Yes its raining coins, but he enjoy it will it lasts.



If the dev would have been serious about the instamine he would have relaunched after having discovered yet another bug, after all it was done before.
Equally the dev is flat out lying in his claim the algo it is ASIC resistant and it being anonym. All it does is displaying his true character. If darksend does not significant differentiate from coinjoin he is breaking the law as well.

End of thread.

[toknormal]

At this point how would you feel about Dr. Uffield and his regimen? Irrational hate? Disgust at his abuse of power?

And would you just shut up indefinitely, or would you try and help newcomers that join the support group not get tricked into using medical care that has virtually no basis in medical science?

So it is for us when we observe snake oil and an obvious scam being punted by means of a cryptocurrency that has virtually no basis in cryptography.

Sure your being dramatic enough there ?

First he's a newb coindev who gets his retargeting wrong and spills out too many coins for 2 days.

Then he's a scheming coindev who planned it all along - including the massive demand and marketcap rise presumably.

Now he's a treacherous rogue masquerading as a cancer curer who causes the untimely deaths of his unsuspecting faithful. (e.g. me presumably)

U need help.

[fluffypony]

So it is for us when we observe snake oil and an obvious scam being punted by means of a cryptocurrency that has virtually no basis in cryptography.

Did you read what your hero gmaxwell said what actually is cryptography?

Cryptography is all that technology by which we hope to confine and constrain the nature of information, to put up fences and direct it to our exclusive purposes, against all attacks and in defiance of the seemingly (and perhaps actually) impossible.

You really don't want to be quoting gmaxwell to support your point, and you really have missed his.

Regarding your story, the difference is that you know what a carrot, a potato, full moon, and a chicken are. Whereas you have been very keen to point out shortcomings of DRK/DASH without actually understanding what it is.

For example, you have claimed InstantX is just Bitcoin's Green Addresses, which it isn't. From reading the description it is clear they are very different, as a Green Address recipient has to trust the previously published sending address not to double spend whereas InstantX is trustless.

So you don't have to trust that the MasterNodes that vote aren't colluding? You have a bizarre definition of trustless. You also haven't taken the time to understand where GreenAddress instant transactions have gone to subsequently, which is especially ironic as you accuse me of the same shortcoming. "I just read the description and thumbsucked everything else, but I can do that because I'm a DASH supporter and thus not a troll"

Another example, you were criticizing DarkSend thinking you'll get tainted coins back as a change after a transaction. That would severely weaken the anonymity, which is why DarkSend doesn't work like that. 

All this baffles me, as you seem to be familiar with cryptography, at least enough so to understand DRK/DASH if you bothered to find out about it.

I stated the risk as I understood it, it was pointed out to me that it has been dealt with, and I acknowledged my error and dropped it from my very brief overview of fail points. That's literally the end of it, constantly bringing it up doesn't make me look bad, it makes you look like you're desperate to criticise me rather than acknowledge the clear evidence of a scam.

[fluffypony]

At this point how would you feel about Dr. Uffield and his regimen? Irrational hate? Disgust at his abuse of power?

And would you just shut up indefinitely, or would you try and help newcomers that join the support group not get tricked into using medical care that has virtually no basis in medical science?

So it is for us when we observe snake oil and an obvious scam being punted by means of a cryptocurrency that has virtually no basis in cryptography.

Sure your being dramatic enough there ?

First he's a newb coindev who gets his retargeting wrong and spills out too many coins for 2 days.

Then he's a scheming coindev who planned it all along - including the massive demand and marketcap rise presumably.

Now he's a treacherous rogue masquerading as a cancer curer who causes the untimely deaths of his unsuspecting faithful. (e.g. me presumably)

U need help.

It was in response to Jeff8247 who asked why there was so much "hate". I used an example to illustrate how those emotions could develop.

I have never claimed Duffield is a "newbie coin dev", I just think that he has demonstrated an incredibly poor grasp of very fundamental cryptography (eg. chaining hash functions leads to preimage attacks, which is why the winner of the sha3 standard wasn't "all of the hashes combined!!") and his actions subsequent to the instamine demonstrate either incredible ineptitude or outright deviousness.

What help do you suggest I seek in this matter?

[toknormal]

What help do you suggest I seek in this matter?

Start with help telling the difference between a purveyor of fake cancer cures who ends up killing people and a coin dev who potentially ended up with too many worthless (at the time) coins.

[generalizethis]

What help do you suggest I seek in this matter?

Start with help telling the difference between a purveyor of fake cancer cures who ends up killing people and a coin dev who potentially ended up with too many worthless (at the time) coins.

It's called metaphor--you should learn about it; it is very useful for illustrating a point. Some of the best at it were Shakespeare, Dickinson, Keats had a few good ones, Frost almost always wrote in metaphors for death (though it was subconscious on his part), almost any writer worth talking about used/uses metaphor, even Jesus used them in the form of parables.

[illodin]

So you don't have to trust that the MasterNodes that vote aren't colluding? You have a bizarre definition of trustless.

Not anymore than (and not even as much as) having to trust the 2-3 largest Bitcoin pools aren't colluding. Yea, I'm bizarre that way.

[generalizethis]

So you don't have to trust that the MasterNodes that vote aren't colluding? You have a bizarre definition of trustless.

Not anymore than (and not even as much as) having to trust the 2-3 largest Bitcoin pools aren't colluding. Yea, I'm bizarre that way.

And throwing Bitcoin under the bus refutes what Fluffy is saying how?

[illodin]

What help do you suggest I seek in this matter?

Start with help telling the difference between a purveyor of fake cancer cures who ends up killing people and a coin dev who potentially ended up with too many worthless (at the time) coins.

It's called metaphor--you should learn about it; it is very useful for illustrating a point. Some of the best at it were Shakespeare, Dickinson, Keats had a few good ones, Frost almost always wrote in metaphors for death (though it was subconscious on his part), almost any writer worth talking about used/uses metaphor, even Jesus used them in the form of parables.

I think you got strawman and metaphor mixed up there.

[illodin]

So you don't have to trust that the MasterNodes that vote aren't colluding? You have a bizarre definition of trustless.

Not anymore than (and not even as much as) having to trust the 2-3 largest Bitcoin pools aren't colluding. Yea, I'm bizarre that way.

And throwing Bitcoin under the bus refutes what Fluffy is saying how?

Meditate on that, you're an "INTJ", you should be able to figure it out.

[generalizethis]

What help do you suggest I seek in this matter?

Start with help telling the difference between a purveyor of fake cancer cures who ends up killing people and a coin dev who potentially ended up with too many worthless (at the time) coins.

It's called metaphor--you should learn about it; it is very useful for illustrating a point. Some of the best at it were Shakespeare, Dickinson, Keats had a few good ones, Frost almost always wrote in metaphors for death (though it was subconscious on his part), almost any writer worth talking about used/uses metaphor, even Jesus used them in the form of parables.

I think you got strawman and metaphor mixed up there.

Nope, you thought wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_metaphor

[generalizethis]

So you don't have to trust that the MasterNodes that vote aren't colluding? You have a bizarre definition of trustless.

Not anymore than (and not even as much as) having to trust the 2-3 largest Bitcoin pools aren't colluding. Yea, I'm bizarre that way.

And throwing Bitcoin under the bus refutes what Fluffy is saying how?

Meditate on that, you're an "INTJ", you should be able to figure it out.

If you can't explain it, just say so.

[illodin]

So you don't have to trust that the MasterNodes that vote aren't colluding? You have a bizarre definition of trustless.

Not anymore than (and not even as much as) having to trust the 2-3 largest Bitcoin pools aren't colluding. Yea, I'm bizarre that way.

And throwing Bitcoin under the bus refutes what Fluffy is saying how?

Meditate on that, you're an "INTJ", you should be able to figure it out.

If you can't explain it, just say so.

Do you consider Bitcoin trustless? Do you consider Monero trustless?

[generalizethis]

So you don't have to trust that the MasterNodes that vote aren't colluding? You have a bizarre definition of trustless.

Not anymore than (and not even as much as) having to trust the 2-3 largest Bitcoin pools aren't colluding. Yea, I'm bizarre that way.

And throwing Bitcoin under the bus refutes what Fluffy is saying how?

Meditate on that, you're an "INTJ", you should be able to figure it out.

If you can't explain it, just say so.