Why the darkcoin/dash/dashpay instamine matters

[smooth]

the masternode network. You're paid to provide a service--at the moment, IX locking and Darksend mixing. If you freelance your time in graphic design, should you not get paid for it?

The block reward portion of the masternode payments is not negotiated and made by the person purchasing that service (by contrast with fees). It is set by the developer in a fairly arbitrary manner, and paid by miners to whom the masternode operator provides no service (in fact InstantX competes with miners). So at best (if it is not an investment scheme), masternode operators are a commercial vendor of the developer, or a confederation of the developer along with miners.

It is certainly not the same model as mining. At best there are some vague similarities.

The block reward of nearly every coin is arbitrary. As for competing with miners, its a double-edged sword. The whole utility aspect of the coin is based entirely on the masternode network, without it, the miners would have "no value". As for IX competing with miners... hardly. There still needs to be a POW confirm for IX to work. Further, if IX fails, it defaults back to conventional POW confirms.

The block reward is arbitrary, but it is not paid by one party to another based on instructions from a third.

I'm saying the structure is different and you can't say that something is "just like" something it is not just like, either logically or legally.

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[iCEBREAKER]

the masternode network. You're paid to provide a service--at the moment, IX locking and Darksend mixing. If you freelance your time in graphic design, should you not get paid for it?

The block reward portion of the masternode payments is not negotiated and made by the person purchasing that service (by contrast with fees). It is set by the developer in a fairly arbitrary manner, and paid by miners to whom the masternode operator provides no service (in fact InstantX competes with miners). So at best (if it is not an investment scheme), masternode operators are a commercial vendor of the developer, or a confederation of the developer along with miners.

It is certainly not the same model as mining. At best there are some vague similarities.

Nice pwnage smooth.

I feel sorry for these Darkscammer kids.  It's almost like cruelty to dumb animals.

EG, oblox can't reason out the technical details so he rambles about 'freelancing in graphic design' and attempts to argue by analogy.

"Hurr durr you should get paid for freelance graphic design, therefore Masternodes aren't a HYIP."

WTF do they teach in schools these days?  Is the curriculum now 100% social justice and sports?

[oblox]

As for the issues Smooth described in the OP:

Numerous existing holders aren't pleased with the beginnings of the coin but its just that, beginnings. A starting point.

We're still not even at the starting point of cryptocurrency. To feel locked into something that was launched in a deceptive and misleading manner by the person or people still running it just because a millimeter or two of progress has been made on a million meter journey is silly.

There are plenty of alternatives that don't have that, er, baggage.

We get it smooth, we understand your stance. It's fine, it has been said. Beginnings are all relative. In regards to the scope of active users of crypto, yes, we are still very much millimeters in a marathon. Having said that, in the past year, people have decided to support the direction of the coin even with its flawed beginnings by continuing to mine on that codebase and continue to update release after release, fork after fork, spork after spork. You magically rehashing something that is over a year old (and has been discussed to death inside and out) just as Dash is starting to gain momentum again just looks a bit sad (and obviously, with project bias).

[Brilliantrocket]

I don't think the Monero guys are going to get anywhere with this. People just don't give a fuck. All people care about is whether the technology works. I don't think that anyone has traced a Darksend transaction, so unless that happens, you guys are getting nowhere. Another criticism I see is that masternodes "unfairly" benefit the holders of the coin. I, and many others, see that as an important feature! It also does wonders for the price.

You guys can build your fair and morally grounded coin. Just know that the market doesn't really give a fuck about those things. That's why I supported cutting the emission of Monero. Better to mine quickly like Darkcoin did, and then have a very low emission afterwards. Sometimes I regret that Monero isn't being lead by more business savy people, like Evan.

Darkcoin changed its emission several times. Did that preclude it from being successful? No! You can do anything you want,(within reason) and people will just shrug and say "meh, it's still the best out there" and use it anyway. If you guys don't understand it, the market will eventually teach you.

[deliveryman]

I don't think the Monero guys are going to get anywhere with this. People just don't give a fuck. All people care about is whether the technology works. I don't think that anyone has traced a Darksend transaction, so unless that happens, you guys are getting nowhere. Another "criticism" I see is that masternodes "unfairly" benefit the holders of the coin. I, and many others, see that as an important feature! It also does wonders for the price.

You guys can build your fair and morally grounded coin. Just know that the market doesn't really give a fuck about those things.

Y only darksend takes a few light years before it actually transacts value.
Monero too, its all not the solution.
Better go SDC. Instant transfers. Trustless, no 3th partys. Only house partys

[smooth]

People just don't give a fuck.

Speak for yourself. You don't give a fuck. That's your prerogative. Other people do give a fuck, including some who have posted on this thread, and many, many more who have not.

All people care about is whether the technology works.

In that case, darkcoin is also likely doomed given the opinions of nearly every qualified expert who has ever weighed in on it.

I don't think that anyone has traced a Darksend transaction, so unless that happens

Isn't that a bit risky, to stake your future on something that hasn't failed yet, which has no solid mathematics or other theory behind it, and the opinions of many qualified experts against it?

The technical stuff is off topic though, and indeed even the "will darkcoin succeed" question is off-topic. Please take it to the XMR vs. DRK thread or whatever.

[smooth]

I don't think the Monero guys are going to get anywhere with this. People just don't give a fuck. All people care about is whether the technology works. I don't think that anyone has traced a Darksend transaction, so unless that happens, you guys are getting nowhere. Another "criticism" I see is that masternodes "unfairly" benefit the holders of the coin. I, and many others, see that as an important feature! It also does wonders for the price.

You guys can build your fair and morally grounded coin. Just know that the market doesn't really give a fuck about those things.

Y only darksend takes a few light years before it actually transacts value.
Monero too, its all not the solution.
Better go SDC. Instant transfers. Trustless, no 3th partys. Only house partys

Off topic, but just so you know SDC uses the same method of mixing as XMR

[Brilliantrocket]

People just don't give a fuck.

Speak for yourself. You don't give a fuck. That's your prerogative. Other people do give a fuck, including some who have posted on this thread, and many, many more who have not.

You guys have done your best in informing everyone on all the details of the instamine over the last week or so, and the price is up ~75 cents. You certainly haven't harmed it. At least not by the only metric that is relevant to me. Of course some people give a fuck, you and others with an interest in competing currencies. But in general, having an instamine hasn't really harmed Darkcoin. Once again, by the only metric that matters, price.

[smooth]

People just don't give a fuck.

Speak for yourself. You don't give a fuck. That's your prerogative. Other people do give a fuck, including some who have posted on this thread, and many, many more who have not.

You guys have done your best in informing everyone on all the details of the instamine over the last week or so, and the price is up ~75 cents. You certainly haven't harmed it. At least not by the only metric that is relevant to me.

That is not the only metric relevant to everyone.

BTW, if we come back and continue this discussion during a time period that the DRK price declined, does that mean suddenly people started caring about the instamine?

I think you would have to agree that it is difficult to attribute price movements to one particular factor or another.

Also, consider: If darkcoin were not saddled with this baggage, maybe it would be higher than it is now.

[Brilliantrocket]

That is not the only metric relevant to everyone.

BTW, if we come back and continue this discussion during a time period that the DRK price declined, does that mean suddenly people started caring about the instamine?

I think you would have to agree that it is difficult to attribute price movements to one particular factor or another.

Also, consider: If darkcoin were not saddled with this baggage, maybe it would be higher than it is now.

Yeah, I guess it is difficult to determine exactly what contributed to an increase or decline. But it looks like the overall sentiment for DRK is positive, despite your efforts.

Perhaps, perhaps not. None of the people I pitched investing in Darkcoin to seemed to care much about the instamine. But then again, most of them had no prior experience in crypto. I actually made a point of explaining the Darkcoin instamine versus how Bitcoin was mined, and most just thought it was unfair in both cases. (Because they didn't get to mine from the start in either case  ) Anecdotal evidence, but it's pretty convincing to me.

[smooth]

That is not the only metric relevant to everyone.

BTW, if we come back and continue this discussion during a time period that the DRK price declined, does that mean suddenly people started caring about the instamine?

I think you would have to agree that it is difficult to attribute price movements to one particular factor or another.

Also, consider: If darkcoin were not saddled with this baggage, maybe it would be higher than it is now.

Yeah, I guess it is difficult to determine exactly what contributed to an increase or decline. But it looks like the overall sentiment for DRK is positive, despite your efforts.

Perhaps, perhaps not. None of the people I pitched investing in Darkcoin to seemed to care much about the instamine. But then again, most of them had no prior experience in crypto. I actually made a point of explaining the Darkcoin instamine versus how Bitcoin was mined, and most just thought it was unfair in both cases. (Because they didn't get to mine from the start in either case  ) Anecdotal evidence, but it's pretty convincing to me.

Did you tell them about the numbered items in my OP, and that the same person/people are still running the project?

My experience with investors (granted it is probably a slightly different audience than yours) is that they react to even questionable conduct on the part of insiders much the same way superman treats kryptonite.

[Brilliantrocket]

Did you tell them about the numbered items in my OP, and that the same person/people are still running the project?

My experience with investors (granted it is probably a slightly different audience than yours) is that they react to even questionable conduct on the part of insiders much the same way superman treats kryptonite.

No, as I didn't know about some of those until you pointed them out to me. But I basically told it from the worst case scenario, that it was 100% premeditated and an intentional way of securing more coins. Look, I get why you don't like it. You guys did it the honest way and you're losing to guys who (possibly) didn't. If I had to choose, I would hope that the honest team succeeds. But the world doesn't always favor honesty. I'm just doing what's best for my future when I invest in Dash.

[Joshuar]

Did you tell them about the numbered items in my OP, and that the same person/people are still running the project?

My experience with investors (granted it is probably a slightly different audience than yours) is that they react to even questionable conduct on the part of insiders much the same way superman treats kryptonite.

No, as I didn't know about some of those until you pointed them out to me. But I basically told it from the worst case scenario, that it was 100% premeditated and an intentional way of securing more coins. Look, I get why you don't like it. You guys did it the honest way and you're losing to guys who (possibly) didn't. If I had to choose, I would hope that the honest team succeeds. But the world doesn't always favor honesty. I'm just doing what's best for my future when I invest in Dash.

That would be correct IMO, if this wasnt cryptocurrencies. These were basically designed so things like that(block reward/coin supply changing etc) wouldnt happen, at least according to Satoshi. I honestly dont believe dash will survive in the longrun, mostly because the purpose of cryptocurrencies is to be the opposite, open, credible, decentralized/fair. It might work in the short term, but why did anyone even come to Bitcoin in the first place?

I came because Bitcoin is backed by math, it's open, and decentralized both on the protocol level and with it's development, if something such as a instamine happened(block reward/coin supply being touched), then I would have not bothered giving Bitcoin a 2nd look. It eventually led me to Monero, but if Bitcoin didn't utilize those prospects then I wouldn't have touched it(metaphorically).

[smooth]

Did you tell them about the numbered items in my OP, and that the same person/people are still running the project?

My experience with investors (granted it is probably a slightly different audience than yours) is that they react to even questionable conduct on the part of insiders much the same way superman treats kryptonite.

No, as I didn't know about some of those until you pointed them out to me. But I basically told it from the worst case scenario, that it was 100% premeditated and an intentional way of securing more coins. Look, I get why you don't like it. You guys did it the honest way and you're losing to guys who (possibly) didn't. If I had to choose, I would hope that the honest team succeeds. But the world doesn't always favor honesty. I'm just doing what's best for my future when I invest in Dash.

Objectively speaking none of these coins has much chance longer term, and the only real reason to pay attention here is interest in the technology. I think you are a little too caught up in the latest pump to see that though.

[illodin]

Of course every single coin here favours more early miners/adopters than the laters. But there is an important difference here: Bitcoin didn't change the rules ex-post to favours (even more) them. Darkcoin changed. And also, to have a deflationary coin, or a coin where at a point doesn't generate new coins, you'll need at some point to cut the rewards until they stop to generate new coins.

So what? It is a decentralized consensus after all, people accepted the new code by downloading and running the new wallet and mining using the new code. Anyone can make any modification to the code and release it. It depends on all the people running the network whether they like it or not.

[Brilliantrocket]

Objectively speaking none of these coins has much chance longer term, and the only real reason to pay attention here is interest in the technology. I think you are a little too caught up in the latest pump to see that though.

It is a nice sort of high to see the digits increase  I do acknowledge that crypto as a whole is an uncertain field. Who knows what will happen. It'd be nice to relax on a beach rather than toil at my boring job though.

[nachoig]

Of course every single coin here favours more early miners/adopters than the laters. But there is an important difference here: Bitcoin didn't change the rules ex-post to favours (even more) them. Darkcoin changed. And also, to have a deflationary coin, or a coin where at a point doesn't generate new coins, you'll need at some point to cut the rewards until they stop to generate new coins.

So what? It is a decentralized consensus after all, people accepted the new code by downloading and running the new wallet and mining using the new code. Anyone can make any modification to the code and release it. It depends on all the people running the network whether they like it or not.

I can call this a 51% attack.

[forlackofabettername]

"If you see fraud and don't shout fraud, you are a fraud"
  -- Nassim Taleb

geat, thanks. It's now in my sig. 

[swansong]

fraud is fraud. so dash is.

[Jeff8247]

Trolls, how much are you being paid?? Any jobs going?