Bitcoin Forum

Well I dont even get the discussions

Why the fork did they rename the REAL ETHEREUM to ETC?

The new forked Ethereum is not ETH. Its bad, its not cryptocurrency, its completely arbitrary and saucy.

Whoever decided to rename the real Ethereum to ETC made a very flawed decision right there.

~CfA~

ETC is the old ETH.


ETH is the fork.


Correct.

That's right, the real Ethereum was renamed to ETC

a new noob fork was made and now they call it ETH although of course it is not the real ETH and just some forked shite

So this is confusing and will suck some noobs into buying the fake false fork pseudo-Ethereum

This is bad

~CfA~

Bitcoin got forked too  ;)

Now, which chain survived? Forked one or old one?

Whoever answers right, keeps coins that wont devalue.

No worries, "ETH" will soon cease to exist, then the real Ethereum will claim both names

You don't seem to understand the reasons behind either of the forks. Bitcoin had a legitimate reason for the hard fork in the past, protocol security. Ethereum hard fork was to bail out idiots who invested in a bugged smart contract.

I have a question. If the support on Ethereum fork goes down and the miners start going back to the original Ehtereum classic, what now will the position of the Ethereum foundation be? Will they still be the ones deciding on what the road map of the platform is? Will the community still listen to them?

i'd guess in those circumstances people would be choosing etc as a rejection of the foundation's principles, or lack of them. but i don't think it's gonna be that easy. that's where the brains are and they've got a mountain of free etc too.

Only if they had ETH stored at Poloniex before the hard fork right? Unless I am mistaken.

I don't think the foundation store all their ETH in an exchange.

not to my knowledge. anyone who controls an eth address wherever it is has exactly the same in etc waiting for them. the exchanges own their eth addresses and distributed the etc back to individuals based on how much they have on the exchange spreadsheet.

Hey hey hey --- hold on. My head.

Can we just get clearness to following points? And if you dont hit one point with a yes, please write back your proof. If you are deeper in scroll down to the next headline.

1) The blockchain is 100% not hackable, cheatable or crackable (come on, not the 50,1% server shi....ne)
2) The blockchain is a kind of cloud-database (if you try to explain someone crypto - try this)
3) ETH not itsself, but some code around, can sometimes be hacked (wallets, exchanges, miner software --- whatever is dealing with the blockchain)
4) ETH is a smart idea and I still believe in Vitalik Buterin. He had two choices. Fix the bug and thats it; 25% of ALL ETH would belong to a hacker (or a group of). Or fix the bug and undo some past action.

---- now my pov ----

IS ETH OR ETC REAL?
ETH is ETH. If I would copy the blockchain of bitcoin and I would call it copycoin it is CYC and not BTC :)

Some decided not run the ETH way, copied the eth blockchain (database) and call it ETC.
BECAUSE VITAK IS BREAKING THE GOLDEN RULE - THE MAIN RULE OF CRYPTO! DONT MANIPULATE IT! (they think)
But the manipulation of the hacker and leak was so big, it was necessary to react in this case.

And why the btc chart is always getting down while the head team is meeting up? Every crypto is changeable and the people are always shocked again and again.
Because all are afraid of changes which are not good for --- miners, investors or whatever btc-business --- that is the reason why btc chart is falling down at the second a hidden meeting is started and running ;)


They even could startet an own new blockchain with 0 - but in this case nobody would care. ETC: Hey, we are the copy of ETH and advertising is free over news :D


If you have an "old" local ETH wallet which is not hit in the chain. And you get the new ETC with the same wallet dat, you should earn twice :D
Do it before ETC is dead. Change your ETC to ETH/LTC/BTC.

AND WHO IS INTERESTED TO HAVE ETC?
Well. I have 25% of an idea ;)
... and ofc those who invested in those weeks.
But those are the brave sheeps to get maybe some dollar back and again the hacker will have most winnings.
Some who will exchange from crypto or fiat to ETC will be the looser at the end.
I dont trust in ETC for now, because I dont know who the people behind are.



As long term it was the right way. For now it is hard. But that is the business of crypto.
Go search some gold in the river ;) --- OH ITS FUNKY --- ITS GOLD! .... cat gold  ::) ;D

In my opinion, ETC may be the original Ethereum but I wonder if the team behind it will be able to maintain it for the long term with development and innovations. Until now, ETC has been very profitable to me due to the fact that it has allowed me to sell my previous ETH (before the hard fork) for free BTC. Still, ETH has a bigger hashrate and its network is much stronger so I will stay with the chain that stays the strongest. Only time will tell what will happen to both chains and which will survive in the long term.

Just in case, I have some ETH and ETC saved for the unexpected.  ;D

OP. That is because Vitalik and the founders thought that no one would continue mining and holding the prefork ETH. So they forked it and still used the name "Ethereum" because they want their chain to be the official one. It did not go as they wanted it. The original chain still was supported and was renamed the original Ethereum classic.

ETHEREUM (ETC) proved far more unstoppable than VB and ETH devs actually believed themselves

ETC is ETC. I have doubled my profit thru it. We're never going back to eth this time. I use to support it but not this time.
vitalik once withdraw 25% of his ETH and he may do it again later. 

exactly this. us traders don't really care about anything else other than the profit we can get from these type of coins which are only pump and dump. and right now ETC is the coin to be pumped.

personally, i don't care about anything will happen with ETC and ETH, as long as i can get profit with both coins, i will buy it and trading it. but if one coins, ETC or ETH, should be sacrifice to supports the one, then i will get more profit with the one coins. just waiting in time when one coin will get down below.

and i really agree with you guys, we should take profit from these both coins as long as we can.

There are even "supporters" of the forked chain that declared that the fork will be good because in their minds it will maintain the value of their coins. They are wrong and surely there are some of those "supporters" that have sold and already made a nice profit. Now some of those "supporters" will declare that the real Ethereum is the original chain and they will support that vigorously. But when they see that they will lose money they will dump again and declare that it is a scam. :D We have seen this happen many times. Some of them have even lost a lot of money and are in debt that they are already always spreading FUD for all coins all the time.

stop comparing bitcoin and ethereum. you have no idea what you are talking about. bitcoin never had any "hard" forks and even that one time big fork is considered a "soft" fork and we moved forward with complete consensus aka 90%+ of bitcoin network accepted the change!

ethereum fork on the other hand happened without consensus and now everything is a mess.

Immutability in a blockchain is there if the majority allows it. The majority voted for the hard fork to undo the catastrophe that the DAO became. Since the majority voted, ETH is the updated Ethereum chain. ETC is more of an eth-altcoin. Immutability was never broken because it was majority decision.

bingo!

Have you bought any ETC recently? The price has dropped 50% in the last few days, it is good time to collect.

I think ETH is ethereum is early develop ethereum is ETH until now still ETH
same bitcoin hard forx, hard fork lost consensus is still bitcoin clasic
is now ETH diference consesus ETH hard fork is win so is use hardford, is not sartifice is use still ethreum classic is ETC

I think the main issue ETC faces is the fact that after ETH PoS they can no longer do rollbacks. At that point what does ETC offer that ETH doesn't?

And I am not sure what ETC will do when ETH go PoS. I hear continue PoW, but that would require a HF to avoid difficulty bomb.

yeah. this is a potentially thorny one. they've backed themselves into a corner a little bit. they're not gonna do any type of rollback apart from something totally catastrophic for the entire protocol.

as for the pow thing, i'll guess there'll be huge demand from people for it to stay pow but they're gonna need some real developers doing real developing to route around something it wasn't designed to continue doing.

if they can get past that then they're golden, or it might be the end of the party.

It does not matter which one is the real Ethereum. The one that survive the DAO hacker dump will be the real one.

Projects that confirmed which blockchain they will use: https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/4w4svc/update_on_the_projects_that_are_100_on_eth/

It seems that there are loyal projects that decide to follow ETH. In the case of ETC, only 1 project is behind it so in my opinion, I think that maybe the ETH chain will be the one that will survive in the long term while the original chain will slowly fall. Unless a serious development team takes over ETC and decides to make it fresh and innovative, then it could take over in the next months or years. Just my opinion.  :)

Well all devs and financial institutions are backing ETH not the criminal coin ETC. It doesn't take a genius to realise this. As you say ETC will slowly die especially after the DAO attacker dumps his criminal proceeds.

well the coins can be dumped only on etc because it is the real ethereum right now, though i doubt that those coins will be dumped as the hacker might want to keep it as an investment

ETC is the ETH with MODIFICATION.

The first modification was the hack. (DAO)
The second modification was to undo on a best way the first modification.

ETC is just the blockchain where a hacker (or a group of) got the most coins of the network and the first modification is not undo.

ETH is what ETHEREUM was intended to be.
Both coins have a manipulated chain, if you get that the hack was a manipulation at first  ::)


I hope all people are hitting the gong on ETC. Yeah. Until those who used the DAO will drop on the market, let the price crash and get rich themself.
Smart idea to invest on ETC  :P

Whatever. Do what will get you profit, but always balance it.
Get some ETC, get some ETH and if you have to many from one exchange some to BTC, LTC or FIAT.

Cheers.

of course it is great time to buy etc right now, im putting my bitcoins into it right now as i know that it is going to be way bigger than eth has ever been, i hope im right

It will be very interesting to see what happens once the DAO hacker dumps all his ETC. This would cause the price to plummet drastically leaving ETC as a valueless coin. In my opinion, the only thing that ETC is good at is to make you free money. I did have some ETH after the hardfork, so when ETC emerged, I've had the same balance as ETH so I have decided to sell those ETC for free BTC.  ::)

The majority did not even vote. Only a small percentage of users have voted. This is known all over by the community. The voting on carbonvote is a farce organized by Vitalik.

The people who do not vote let others decide. That happens in all kinds of democracy. No vote no say.

Only ETC failed even before the DAO bug abuser could dump :)

I don't belive that hacker will dump all ETC just becouse he is courious where it will go.
For ETC this is just onother whale with big chunk of coin that supress ETC price. But porobably over time he will sell off his shares.
If he dump you will see ETC for 0,01$ :D... capitalization is not real value.
We will see where all will go. If i would invest in ETC ar ETH i should go with that one have or will have more projects onboard hisstory doeasn't matter.

Usually helps if everyone knows it's happening, though.

i dropped a lot of etc some time back and even if the price went down im still holding it right now, i hope that its price is going to jump pretty soon

Me too. Usually, the coin with the most projects will be the one that will be the most supported over the long term. ETC only has a minority of users into it, while ETH has the biggest investors and development team. I'm pretty sure that once Casper PoS hits out for ETH, things will be a lot better than what they are right now. Just my opinion.  ;D

If ETH goes from POW to Casper POS then the miners will all transfer to ETC. The supporters of the forked chain must be very careful before getting excited about the switch to Casper. There are arguments that it is not a feasible way to reach consensus and that the system can be cheated by a majority. If they really want to make that switch soon then good for ETC. Miners are welcome there.

And that is if ETC decides to stay as a PoW crypto while ETH goes full PoS. It would ideal for ETC to stay as a PoW crypto since it will attract miners into it (not to mention that true consensus would be achieved with this) The only good thing about PoS in my opinion is that it is an energy efficient way to mine (or should I say stake) some coins. Some people cannot afford to buy expensive mining hardware (like GPUs) and maintain them, thus it will be easier for them to buy coins instead and stake them. Still, I think that PoW is better due to the fact that true consensus would be achieved and it would make the coin's network stronger.  ;D

Yes. The supporters and backers of ETC should not follow the switch to Casper right away. This will set new problems with the forked chain and Vitalik's strategy. He really now has created a lot of problems for himself. The original Ethereum classic is more relaxed and have the freedom to choose which direction it will take.

If the ETC does not follow the switch to Casper right away, it will be a dead coin as nobody will provide service based on it.

Yeah. I wonder how successful ETH would be once it hits PoS stage. Also, things would improve onto ETH (and probably ETC as well) once its version of BTC's Lightning Network (in this case, Raiden Network) becomes a reality. It will make Ethereum much faster and perhaps it may even rival VISA or Mastercard with its TPS. Anyways, I am hoping for ETC to head towards innovation making itself different than ETH by having its own DAO (a better and secure version than ETH's The DAO), or maybe even make new kinds of dapps. Just my opinion.  ::)

I don't get why ETH is doing so well.  I only watch altcoins on yobit and I don't think ETC is listed there.  This whole thing is one unholy christing shitfuck, and you'd have to be insane  to buy either of these.  No offense,  OP.

Maybe because you don't understand the great tech that it is nor appreciate just how many massive financial backers and developers it has? Stick to your disgusting ETC criminal coin all you want but I have two full Ethereum bags.

im also puzzled about it though i think that eth will exist not for a really long time, in my opinion the price of it is going to be dumped really soon

That is all only in theory. In practice what will happen is the miners will switch to ETC. Vitalik would be crazy to announce any definite dates for Casper's release now. That will make the ETC chain stronger because miners want long term security to operate. Casper is a threat to them.

I think the same. The miners have helped the Ethereum Foundation and the members to secure their DAO coins. So the switch will be delayed by some time.

The biggest problem with ETH is that now once the precedent of a bailout hard fork is set is very, very hard to trust this project.
What will happen once another smart contract disaster happens again? Cmon!

Yeah. That is why ETC will have a strong advantage over this in the future as miners will keep the network secure, while ETH switches to PoS and would be left behind. Then, after ETH is forgotten the original chain (ETC) would prevail and there will only be a single Ethereum. I'd bet that they're planning a The DAO 2.0 real soon. Let's see how this would turn out in the long run. Just my opinion.  :)

Yes it's very hard to trust a project and community that seeks to do the morally correct thing. Better to put all your blind faith in 1 anonymous criminal who only has nefarious thoughts and actions at heart.

Are you typing without thinking? ETH will not go away even if it switches to Casper. Not all of the miners will mine ETC some will find a different altcoin depending on the price of ETC if it is profitable. I said this in another thread, what I foresee happening is that ETC will become a "community chain" with community projects like in NXT and ETH will become a "corporate chain" with venture capitalist backed projects. This will be good because each of them will have their own niche market.

The man from the beebs got it right bros & sisters

We have an active 12 person dev team  https://trello.com/etcdev/members (https://trello.com/etcdev/members)

We have 100+ volunteers  https://github.com/ethereumproject/volunteer/tree/master/Keys (https://github.com/ethereumproject/volunteer/tree/master/Keys)

Over 500 on slack  https://ethereumclassic.slack.com/messages/development/ (https://ethereumclassic.slack.com/messages/development/)

And Charles Hoskinson at the helm

Support fom miners like Chandler Guo and many more.

This is the peoples coin not a foundation

All this in a little more than a week?  And now the dao etc is back in safe hands
https://www.reddit.com/r/EthereumClassic/comments/4wyk47/re_the_etc_salvaged_from_attackdaos/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/EthereumClassic/comments/4wyk47/re_the_etc_salvaged_from_attackdaos/)

So much still to do.  Keep an eye on the announcements section.  ;)

Yes. I just watched Charles Hoskinson's interview. Very good news coming from him. I mentioned this in the another thread. Please check out Nick Szabo's retweet that has a like to an ETC wallet generator in it. What do you think? Is he supporting ETC?

Nick Szabo is a self-described libertarian. To me the answer is clear.

would be curious to know who was behind the coding of the smart contract project, they should integrate it as a part of the fork itself, not a separate project

That is a good point. To me it will still be good to hear from him and know what his opinion is and what he thinks of the ETC versus ETH battle that is going on now. A lot of people in the community will find it valuable I'm sure.

I think the ETH PoS will be delayed for quite long time. The development of the Casper is not fast enough.

eth is bullshit right now, in my opinion the price of etc only is going to grow, there will be a new pump pretty soon that will allow me to make some good money

Highly doubt it. Everyone and their dog is currently getting out of ETC criminal coin as its been revelaed that the DAO attacker IS going to dump on the market. This is why the price, hash, and support is currently collapsing.

ETC keeps dropping every day with the rumour that the hacker is dumping. It seems to be near the bottom as I don't think the hacker will dump so cheaply. As he has a large stock of ETC, he will need to wait for people to FOMO and panick buy before he will dump.

I think the hacker does not have access to the ETC until the end of this months. But he can short the ETC now.

i dont know too much about it right now but i think that at the moment he will have ethereum he will dump it really fast but etc is still way better

"Community"? Only a tiny amount voted. Most people have a life and cant be looking at whats going up all day, that's why Bitcoin is better, it would take months until a hard fork is activated, here it was rushed and with glitches like replay attack.

What morality? Do you think it was morally correct to put millions in a super experimental smart contract thing? That is the definition of greed and immaturity. And don't get me started with Vitalik trying to stop the exchanges...

here they had a set deadline to fork. And considering the tight timescale it was a success and proves how strong ETH is when the community works together. As for voting. If you don't vote then you are happy with the consensus of others or aren't not that bothered so voter turnout is irrelevant.

Well said. I guess that ETH and ETC will coexist in the long term. This way would be ideal as ETC can be used for community stuff, while ETH can serve its purpose for businesses/companies. It will be very interesting to see what will be the price of each in the future, but it will be best (in my opinion) to have hold both of them just in case.

One thing that I'm trying to figure out is how to split my ETH/ETC in order to avoid replay attacks. Will making a new ETH and ETC address suffice? Sorry for asking, I just find all of this a little confusing.  :)

Use 2 separate machines or virtual machines. Install Mist supporting fork on one and Mist not supporting fork the other. Download both blockchains. Create new ETH address on the Mist supporting fork machine and create new ETC criminal coin address on machine not supporting fork. Transfer your ETH to new ETH address. Transfer your ETC criminal coins to new ETC criminal coin address.

ETC has just about the same chances of success that BYC has.

Thanks for the tip. Even though, I do not support criminal events like The DAO hack (which ETC supports) I will only hold a very minimal amount of ETC coins in case its gets pumped at some time. I highly doubt that ETC may get somewhere but you'll never know when you'd miss the chance to profit by having a few coins. I will proceed with caution with this.  :)

Gud luck with whatever you decide sir. Personally I've split my coins and will hodl both. I was always hodling ETH but will hodl the ETC criminal coins because I refuse to partake in promoting the market and price of the ETC criminal coin as its against my strict morals.

Rofl.

Ok, now will you please fuck off from this forum you goofey shill

Can you please expound more why you have come to that conclusion? I tried to think of one but I am seeing that it is trading at high volume in multiple exchanges that it is hard to compare this with Bytecent. If that is a sarcastic remark I do not see the point.

ETH realy burn money investors who made Investment in it, and today price ETC is going down and i think it is time for buy ETC.

The ETC just declared the independence. So it will not use the Ethereum development. It has to support itself. It might be costly.

You're partaking in criminal ETC by holding ETC too you contradicting scummy shill.

Dude are you serious? How can you call this a success?

There are 2 coins now, and they did not expect 2 coins.
There is a replay attack bug that cannot be fixed unless a new fork happens.

You can't call this a success.

ETC without Vitalik Buterin is not real Ethereum at all. Respect!

Vitalik != Ethereum. Either one can live without the other just fine. But if you really want Vitalik you can have him. ETC does not need anyone who panics and makes stupid decisions. He used to have an image of a boy genius who will save the world. He is nothing but a profit seeking little kid now. That is his new image. It will take a long time for that to go away.

Vitalik will have nothing to do with the Etheruem Classic. He said he will work 100% on the Ethereum.

The Ethereum Classic ETC has already declared independence. It will have nothing to do with the Etheruem community.

Good. It is the way it should be. ETC does not need the bad reputation of Vitalik and the Ethereum foundation. It is now slowly revealed that they do not mean well. The are very scheming and very conniving.

You all make me laugh how you treat ETC as the criminal coin. Remember me who got caught in very shady operations on Poloniex ? Oh yes, the Ethereum Foundation (ETH) ::)...

With the way Ethereum Foundation is going, they will soon run out of time and people's trust >:(

The people who are defending them are only bag holders who still hope and want for ETH price to rise. Most of them are not real supporters. They just want more money from the ETH investment they have.

Oh but we are assured that the ETC criminal coin doesn't need Vitalik as they have the DAO attacker to develop that criminal chain. And the deluded fools fall for it.

A singular actor does not define any of these projects. Is bitcoin diminished because of Satoahi's current absence?

And looking at the wreckage of ETH, how has having Mr Buterin at the wheel turned out?

Well, I'm not against ETC and neither ETH. I still believe in immutable smart contracts, but the only thing that ETC has is that it has given the chance to the DAO hacker to have ownership of the stolen coins (investor funds) and be able to dump them at anytime. This may cause a huge risk, thus making the price goes all the way down to less than $0.01 USD (in the original chain). Just my opinion, though.  :-\

This is a big myth. Poloniex is watching. It has frozen stolen funds belonging to the Ethereum Foundation and can do it again. So it was them the first to dump. Being the less smart of two, they're also the greediest and the less trustable ::)...

It will be bad for the price of ETC. But ETC as a platform will live on, be developed, grow and will eventually have a life of its own. We also know the DAO attacker will not dump everything at once. He will be risking everything he has which is stupid.

It would be funny to see the atacker to declare and return all the ETC he is holding back to the DAO investors just to make the Ethereum foundation look bad since they tried to dump their ETC thru the white hat group. :D

If he do so, or at least give back of part of them, Ethereum is dead and Ethereum Classic will be enthroned a little time after that. Parity would be reach.

I disagree. It is only possible to reach parity if the hash rate of ETC will go up near ETH's hash rate. That will the only way for everyone to gain confidence in the platform.

That is right. But if there is big investors pump the price to the same level of ETH, the miners will mine the ETC and the hash rate will increase.

Satoshi is dead already but I digress. Yes if he was alive and still in possession of the private keys to his wealth then yes everyone would be defined by his actions. Just as the dirty criminal DAO attacker who owns more than 10% ETC defines the criminal coin. Don't be so niave in future.

But the opposite is happening. Everyone knows ETC is the criminal coin so big investors will never invest in it. Why would they for ducks sake?

That's backward causality.  The hash rate is determined by the block reward.  Given that the block rewards of ETC and ETH are the same, the ratio of the hash rates is equal to the ratio of their market prices.

There is in fact no reason to fear for the lowest hash rate, because spending effort to attack a low hash rate chain also means spending effort to alter something of lesser value.  So apart from the "desire to spend a fortune to see the world on fire", there is no incentive to attack a smaller hash rate chain, because the gain one can obtain from it is smaller too.

If only the chain with the highest PoW effort is secure, then only bitcoin is relatively secure.  All other chains, having smaller market caps, have smaller hash rate equivalents in PoW and hence exposed.

Big investors will not invest in any case any more in anything ethereum related.  The DAO showed the idiocy of the concept of turing complete smart contracts.  The ETH chain showed that immutability is not guaranteed, and that sufficient action from the ethereum foundation and an oligarchy of miners can undo anything on the chain.  The Poloniex blocking of the Robin Hood thieves showed the vulnerability of traceable coins and their non-fungible nature.  So much for "unstoppable" and "immutable".  Visibly propriety of funds and their possibility of exchange is dependent on obscure agents, and the whole myth of unstoppable, fungible and immutable is gone now.

While the ETC chain has at least kept the original proposition of immutability and unstoppability, it has suffered a severe blow with the traceability and the fact that Poloniex could stop certain owners to exchange their coins.  ETC also suffers from the same ridicule as ETH and ethereum in general: Turing complete smart contracts, an oxymoron.

So this whole circus is ridiculous, and no serious investor will ever touch it with a stick.  In as much as you are a law-abiding investor, you will keep away from these obscure judges, and deal with the normal legal system, and normal legal contracts ; in as much as you would like to use your freedom from law and state, you know that the whole ecosystem is lying about their neutrality and act upon their own morality standards (read: their profit) as it suits them.

The only thing that ETH can still be used for, and I agree that it is a lucrative market, is scamming people with the consent of the foundation and/or exchanges.

Minecache got it wrong about what or who has the criminal intentions. No one will now invest in ETH because the whole world has seen the way Vitalik and the Ethereum foundation has run the project. Very sloppy showing inexperience and lack of regard for the consequences of their actions. Add an Ethereum foundation's messy plan of dumping of ETC in the market to that and you got everyone turned off from them. Only the people holding ETH hoping to sell higher are the ones defending it.

While ETC has just welcomed a new investor and adviser. That is Charles Hoskinson. Welcome back to the original Ethereum classic Charles!

i couldn't agree more.
ETH is turning into one scandal after another and it doesn't even end. they are rude enough to do another scam and create another scandal.

and you know the most interesting part of it all is?

if the news about a whale like ethereum foundation but for another altcoin spread that for example they were dumping a lot of stolen coins on the market the price of that coin would have died but ETH price is still up as it was before. which shows the magnitude of the manipulation of that coin.

i dont think he got it wrong, he probably knows.
He is just a fraud trying to protect his bag of mETH bought at 0.03+

What are the scandals? Getting the funds back from the thief is to protect the integrity of the Ethereum as a good trading/smart contract platform.

Some posters might be paid by the hackers to promote the scams and try to troll the coins supported by most people.

That could be true. We can find some posters have some interest in the ETC as well. But it is normal for them to say that.

If you look at it that way then the scandal started with the DAO and how it was coded. They said they have created a secure smart contract and even declared that they paid $100k for the security audit. Then what happened? It was not secure and it was attacked and 1/3 of funds were taken away. To make matters worse they did a sloppy hard fork with the original chain now competing with the forked chain. If you were a big investor in Ethereum what would you think of their developers?

Yes maybe you are right, but i am trading it depend on signal from indicator. So i don't too see about analysis fundamental for trading it. But it is nice informations thank you very much.

They might have good intention when they created the DAO. I do not think wanted to steal all the DAO from the beginning.

eth is a really bad currency at the moment in my opinion, it is only going to fall in the near future, right now we should go with etc

If you like ETC, you should vote with your money. You should buy a lot. You might have to buy the ETC from the hacker as well.

I just posted a roadmap proposal for ETC: https://steemit.com/ethereum/@charleshosk/thoughts-on-an-ethereum-classic-roadmap

@charleshoskinson, will that mean ETC will fork first before ETH does to get rid of the difficulty bomb? That would also be a good opportunity to fix the "replay attack" issue between the two chains. Your thoughts?

If ETC diverges from ETH's hash function(s) how much extra effort will be required to maintain protocol compatibility, or is interoperability not an overriding concern?

Any thoughts on Decred's hybrid PoW/PoS model?

https://wiki.decred.org/Introduction#Hybrid_Proof-of-Work_Proof-of-Stake

@icebreaker I do not think it will be such a huge concern to have interoperability between chains. It would be safe to say that the ETC community wants total separation. In principle it would be better to have no connection to the forked chain whatsoever. It was the reason why the original was maintained by a minority.

I may be wrong because maybe the ETC community all needs to agree about the issue.

I am a miner. So it is good for the ETC or ETH to remove the difficulty time bomb. Any one does it first will get miners support.

The miners will just mine the most profitable coin. So if the price of ETH is high and even though ETC changes first, miners will mine ETH.

Yeah, miners only concentrate on the most profitable coin, so the better coin has large hashrate, and future value is also be considered by the miners, current ETH is so much expensive than ETC, they would mine ETH.

I also think that fork the chain was a bad step.

If the ETC keeps on being an PoW coin, I think the price can be higher as it has the support of the miners' community.

I hope that ETC stays PoW. ETC needs to differentiate enough from ETH to deliver a product that is different enough to justify its existence. Sure immutability is a key principle, but PoW would add the project another reason to exist and can be a safe haven in case ETH fucks up real bad when they go PoS which is a serious possibility. In that case anyone holding ETC will go to the moon.

There were rumors that GMaxwell said that Vitalik is advertising something that he himself knows will not work and therefore will not be released. He was talking about Casper. So meaning expect ETH to hard fork again removing the difficulty bomb.

i thought not the price makes a coin profitablefor miners, its the difficulty ? low difficulty high reward ? or i am wrong?

and i thought etc is better there then eth but i am no miner

The profitability of ETC is quite similar to ETH. But the ETC price is dropping. So after you sell your ETC, you get less bitcoin.

if ETC is the real Ethereum, then Ethereum is dying...

They both suck and suffer from the Smart Contract vulnerabilties, so both will die in the end if nothing is done to remedy to the problem.

amen.

There are no Smart Contract vulnerabilties.  slock.it messed up on their code writing.  The vulnerabilties were that they did not protect their Dao.  

A bit like writing a cheque with the correct date and then signing it but leaving the value blank and then giving it to a homeless man.  Is it the bank to blame when the homeless man writes in his own value and goes to cash it out?  

But if the bank recalls all the cash and then issues new cash just to stop one homeless man taking advantage of the bloke who wrote the bad cheque, that could be seen as governance vulnerabilties don't you think?

And today ETC's price going up on poloniex market, i think it is signal of a live for ETC after for long time ETC was dead and it is my chance making stock them. And i hope i can get profit.

They have a new dapp so i think you will profit.

Is minebox a hardware solution? I got the impression that it is. Who would use and by something like that for personal use? Most of us are happy with our current cloud storage solutions. How can minebox convince us to use their product?

I am not optimistic with this idea for personal use. But maybe it could be useful for companies and enterprises.

I agree with that principle.   And it is true that what failed was the DAO code, and ethereum "worked like a charm".  
But the DAO was written like normal software, on a normal software platform (ethereum).  Normal software, on normal software platforms, contains bugs and exploits if its complexity is a slight bit involved.   If we knew how to write complex code without bugs and exploits, we'd be doing it for more than 40 years.  Even the most talented and experienced software engineers, on platforms that they know like their pockets, make bugs and exploits.  That's unavoidable.  So what happened to the DAO was perfectly normal.
Now, what happens to normal software when bugs and exploits are discovered, is that one PUSHES A SECURITY UPDATE.  You can't do that with a smart contract.
After a while, as your software is used and tested in real world situations, it starts to be secure against bugs.  However, you will almost never know that it is secure against exploits.  The difference between a bug and an exploit is that the bug is the software not functioning correctly within the range of "normal user input".  As normal usage of the software samples more and more of the normal user input space, the statistical possibility of there to be a significant island of user input where the software fails and not having been sampled yet, becomes smaller and smaller.  That's why software that is used a lot, becomes more and more bug free (unless new features are added to it): the space of normal user input is sampled more and more.  So "old stable software" is essentially bug free.

However, an exploit is a bad functioning of the software OUTSIDE of the normal user input, looked for on purpose by someone desiring the software not to function properly.  The exploit lifetime is much much longer than the bug lifetime, simply because:
1) the space of possible "abnormal" user inputs is way bigger than the space of normal user input
2) that space is not sampled by normal users
3) that abnormal user input goes against the abstract logic of the software, and so during software engineering, everything is done so that the programmer DOES NOT think of these illogical cases.

As such, the dev crew is probably "brainwashed" NOT to discover their own exploits.  Finding exploits needs a "hacker's mindset".

The "exploit space" is only sampled by real hackers, having a real mobile to hack.  You can only protect yourself up to a certain level of "hacker's competence" by demanding an external audit.

But the whole point is that all these things are nuisances in normal software because normal software needs to be immensely flexible, and consider immensely different usage cases.  This is why software platforms are very versatile, and it is this flexibility that allows for all these "unexpected" cases.

A contract is normally much simpler.  We've seen with the banking crisis that it is NOT a good idea to allow for very complicated contracts.  Normally, as a general guideline, *you should only sign a contract when you've understood ALL FINE PRINT*.   That means that the terms of a contract shouldn't be too complicated in general.

As such, the "state tree" of a contract should be finite and sufficiently limited that the person signing up can have a complete overview of it: "If this happens, that clause is valid ; if that happens, that clause is valid ; finally if not this but that happens, at that moment, that clause is valid" should be ENTIRELY CLEAR to the signer.

The terms of a smart contract are hence much simpler than the entire statespace of general software.  If not, things go wrong, in the same way as the real estate security swaps went wrong.  There's no good reason to have contracts with very involved state spaces.

And IF we can have limited state spaces, then we CAN prove that a certain piece of software will ONLY implement such a state tree, on the condition that the platform is *designed that way*, with provability in mind.  It is automatically not Turing complete.

This is what ethereum is not.  This is why, even though it was the DAO code that was buggy, the ethereum platform, running like a charm, was the cause of it: it is a normal software platform, on which complicated, and hence buggy and exploitable code, is going to be designed.  The DAO was the first example of it.  Making a software platform that allows easily, like all software platforms, to make bugs and exploits, but in a system (smart contracts) that doesn't even allow for security updates to be pushed, with money at stake, and "open to the world" (not running on airgapped computers in physically protected rooms) is recipe for disaster.

Is this something like freenet for money ?

ETC's price going up is actually a common trading activities,it's just an ordinary pump as usual,any coin could being pumped like this,and as long the coin still in the exchanger or having marketplace can't be considered as dead,the trading volume keep going on

Minebox Dapp....   Decenteralized Storage of intellectual property?  The storage is tide to the blockchain and timestamped.  So you can store software, music, video, books, photos you have made prior to publishing, thus giving you a form of copywrite and proof of ownership, like proof it was your idea first?

Moreover, you can turn all your old HHDs in to mining hardware.  You offer your spare storage space up to the network and get paid ETC or fiat.  No new hardware other than to get yourself some caddies to house all those old harddrives you have kicking around, hook them up to your PC and run the Minebox software to link you to the Ethereum Classic Blockchain and wait for the coin to roll in?

Peer to Peer storage so your files are encrypted and distributed over nodes/HHD hosts in the network.  Sounds like a good backup plan!  ;)

“I had the pleasure of learning about minebox with the team in Vienna. I told them I wanted to be their first customer;
this is a phenomenal solution for decentralizing all the things”
Erik Voorhees CEO of Shapshift quoted from website https://minebox.io/ (https://minebox.io/)

Is this something similar to Siacoin or Storj? How is Minebox better than the two already mentioned and what makes it different?

So you are trying to trick me right?  IMMUTABILIY silly!  It's classic.

dev ethereum eth is declare say with statment
ethereum classic is ETC diference with etherum ETH
so etc only new coin difference ETH, community ethereum still follow ETH not migration to ETC

The terms die for ETC is mean price going down and The terms a live for ETC is mean price going up, i just follow the terms from another users who start it and it is not realy dead or a live.

Immutability? Are you saying Siacoin and Storj are not immutable? I am only asking for what makes minebox better than Siacoin or Storj. It would be really appreciated by everyone to be shown the features of minebox and to compare it with both platforms.

I went looking at the site, but I couldn't find the *price* of such a box.  They tell you how much you can make (in Euro) per month if you can have your box running, but:
1) how much does the box itself cost ?
2) how do they know the price if that's market-determined ?

The idea is not bad, but I don't understand why this must run on ethereum, hence fixing the price of the contract in ethereum with all its volatility.  It would have been better if there were a specific storage token, that is mined offering (provable) storage, and bought by people wanting storage, so that it has its own market.

I don't think it is a box...  That is just an image of what you may have.  I have a small storage server with 8 drive slots that i will use.  But a caddy with a hard drive in it would work ok. Minebox is software (Dapp).  It means you can rent out space or buy space that is decentralized and immutable. Immutability (t) is important to some people for,... copyright, legal stuff, building games, storing keys, possibility are endless.  Aircraft black boxes could update to the network every ~13sec. Then you wouldn't have to go looking for the box after a crash.  Crash data would be on the blockchain.

Remember you were told that ethereum was different because not only can you store monetary value, but you can run software, store software, store anything you want and send it to people....   Well this is how. This is where it will live, all choped up over different peoples HHD on a network of nodes via Minebox software (Dapp).

Ah, I really thought they were going to sell hardware too, you know, an integrated thing with no need of any computer, just type in your wifi router PW, or connect an ethernet cable, configure the contract, and off you go.

Interesting concept and if anyone has a thread dedicated to this project i would be interested in reading up more.  Helps i have a rackmount server that can spin around 50 disks (so far its easily expandable) and use less than 20 so far even with redundancy.

The aircraft blackbox thing isnt really a good example though.  Depending on the aircraft some will obviously return real time data to base via some sort of link.  But sat data is stupidly expensive to put it mildly (so i doubt its widespread) and if the aircraft goes down chances are it didnt maintain coms for the final part of the flight.  Your still going to need to find the box after the crash if for no other reason to confirm it matches

Maybe the Chinese Ethereum Classic cell will come up with somthing to ship worldwide.

Because of the DAO who made broke ETH, the people move to used ETC because it is the real ethereum and ETH is just a hardfork. And new support for ETC, They have a new dapp it is good news and will make ETC growing up in my opinion.

The Dao Hacker Has Just Withdrawn Their Booty From The DAO On The ETC Chain and just donated 1000 ETC to the Classic Dev fund?

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/51bwgd/the_hacker_has_just_withdrawn_their_booty_from/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/51bwgd/the_hacker_has_just_withdrawn_their_booty_from/)

https://mobile.twitter.com/eth_classic/status/772939595726159872 (https://mobile.twitter.com/eth_classic/status/772939595726159872)

Could you guys link me some ETC development, projects, and what not ? Here's something about ETH

I think there is not much development about the ETC at the moment. I heard the hack just donated 1000 ETC to the development.

I think to the best of information available to me, ETC came with ETH when it launches and its attached until when its now separated so I dont think it was renamed as against each other as I have also seen on recent exchange sites listing the two as separate coins to be traded...

Sorry OP, but apparently you'll die poor. All your FUD didn't help at all. But there's a chance to recover all your lost money: stream your ending.

You are right. It seems the ETC price has not risen against the Etheruem in the past few weeks so far.

There are good development of the Etheruem and it has good community support. So I think it will last long.

Ethereum is still one of the rich platform out there that there developers are well funded, the issue is will the platform be competitive enough when ETC platform becomes functional

Both ETC and ETH will last long no matter what it takes.

It depends on the intention of the big Chinese farms. If they want, they can kill the ETC easiiy with the hashing power.

Allah willing they will make it so.

Agree. We'll see how far ETC would get in the following months before the year ends. I hope that the team can come up with innovations and solutions towards smart contract security in order to compete against Ethereum. Until now, Ethereum is very flawed suffering from constant DDoS attacks so it might even bring more people into ETC or other ETH clones.

There is one thing though about ETC, and that is about the price decline that has occurred recently making each ETC being worth $0.99 I wonder if this has to do with The DAO dump. How far will the price get will be determined whenever something new and exciting comes up for ETC or not...  ::)

until now much people still use technology ETH not etc
you can see this dev coin still use token ETC not ETC
you can see volume transaction is ETH still high, ETC still under ETH in volume transaction

Can the ETC developer develop some technologies against the DDoS without doing a hard fork?