Bitcoin Forum

IMO, beside the scammers, the incompetence of these kids is one of the biggest obstacles to solid Bitcoin services.

How about some industrial-strength Microsoft Web servers, ASP MVC, .NET and C++ programming of the adults?

Obvious troll / flamebait, please try again.

No, I am absolutely serious. Except that you are an idiot.

Very cute.  But what is it about Linux/JavaScript/Python that's so bad?

Ad hominem, please try again.

And calling me a troll wasn't ad hominem? Please kiddo.

Do you propose using VBScript then?

Ignore the fact that (variants of) Linux power Google, Facebook, YouTube, Yahoo, Blogger, Wikipedia, Twitter ..

Go fuck yourself moron!

You know what I said in the original post and if doesn't please you it doesn't mean you need to pretend to be sarcastic and intelligent.

Alternatively, you could have not made a stupid post.

Wow, the speed with which this thread has degenerated into mudslinging is impressive.

Full disclosure: I use Python. On Linux.

There was nothing stupid about it.

Google and Facebook and their need to cut on the cost of storage with a huge number of servers doesn't translate into overall shitty Bitcoin services.

With ASP .NET kiddos get at least free but tested samples of accepting and storing login ids and passwords securely, code that works for ages.
So kiddos don't need to stretch their brains inventing the wheel.

There are many samples of good UI, popups that asks for confirmation, that they just need copy and paste.

MS SQL is used in many places collocated around the exchanges so it is without a doubt fast and solid enough for immensely higher load than Mt. Gox processes.

With .NET Entity Framework I created more complex, solid and faster response databases than Coinbase did with stupid Mongo.

Awww... A Microsoft fanboy. I didn't know those existed anymore.

Nothing. Except that it is obviously not for the beginners as a myriad of Bitcoin exchanges and services clearly demonstrate.
They need canned samples that work, copy paste and imitate, with easy to understand .NET code and a solid MS SQL database.

When they learn how things work and become big, saving money on cheaper Linux servers would be nothing wrong, on the contrary.

OK, so let me get this straight.

You think that they should act like adults, and use the moron-easy stuff, like ASP, & .NET, and then when they grow up, they can go back to Linux and JavaScript and such?

Or not go with the "easy stuff" and http://learncodethehardway.org/

Have to agree with OP...Python this, python that...learn to code in C/C++ damn it...

in my day it wasnt a coding language unless you had to compile it....
bloody script kiddies

What?

Pussy.
Code like a man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Gibson_%28computer_programmer%29).
In assembly language.

Real men learn OpenGL

Personally, I prefer the old school methods. I only ever use punch cards.

Bah. Flip the switches manually.

Obligatory:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/real_programmers.png

I must admit that I find more easy to program in Assembly than making anything in OpenGL.

I'm sort of getting it in places now, it's still pretty damn difficult and I don't like to do it often lol :P I'll probably end up making something eventually though because of my hatred of the games industry.

A bit off topic but I really recommend this site since it seems to explain the basics well enough but of course you have to adapt the code to the compiler that you're using: http://www.videotutorialsrock.com/opengl_tutorial/basic_shapes/text.php

Let's all think back to the good old days of SQL Slammer Worm. :D

Yeehah!

I do concede that Javascript is pretty crap... but does that mean:

"Ah, let's just go back to using all of those awesome closed-source tools built on top of a buggy OS, which generate pages that only render correctly in a broken browser"?

As far as secure web development, I really don't think there is such a thing...

Totally! Screw compatibility!

Use Go!!! the language.  Now, that seems like an interesting idea.


But .Net?  No....no.  Coming from a decade of MSFT admin, dev and DBA then moving in to Nix I have to say that Python is a very slick, albeit slow, language.


VBScript?  Really?  Just an weak automation language that's already almost dead.  And...proprietary.



What's the point of this thread again??

First reply nailed it:

LOL!  Making it easy for "kiddos" to "copy and paste" their way to creating a Bitcoin service is the last thing we need.  Your argument about ease of creating stuff with .NET may have some merit, but it's hard to take seriously when you also advocate making cargo-cult programming more prevalent.

C'mon man, at least they would get some basic things right.

I go to a stupid exchange and kiddos can't even make a decent login page that actually works. Can't even write a decent JavafuckingScript
to verify a dozen input fields? And then they gonna' handle the exchange?

In the days of stupid 16 bit Windows at least we knew how to verify a few edit boxes in C code.

I can't even state the facts without some politically correct aparatchik whining about trolling and flamebaits.

Now, of course, that copy paste was intended only as the lesser evil, not as the final solution.

Never gonna happen. D is at least decent.


I have yet to meet a single geek who, knowing both .NET and JavaScript, would ever program in JavaScript, unless forced at the proverbial gunpoint.
Look what Java brought to Google. Larry Ellison's umpteenth wife PMS.
They would have made a much better investment in mature technology if they swallowed their pride and took Mono instead of Java.


I never mentioned it. I hate it. That chipmunk TradeFortress did it in an attempt to appear sarcastically intelligent.


Re-read the title.

What are you talking about? Javascript is fantastic in its ability to be everything (if you abuse it). Node.js is a good example. So is DOOM rendered in JS.

P.S. I think C/C++ stand alone apps are the only "secure" way to do anything these days, and think that Perl beats PHP anyday.

I agree. If you are a small time hacker with mediocre technical, and definitely no CS education, JavaScript is the *only* cross-platform, compatible language.
There are no other languages. Period.

After all, what could Satoshi have ever done without all those open, robust, cross-platform JavaScript libraries?

So do most of devs of the more slick and responsive sites I've seen.  I honestly do not remember a more functional and responsive experience outside of C++ backend and CGI frontend.


I've been trying to see what CIYAM can do for me.  Though, CIYAM is like a boxed templating engine.  No coding.  So...fail when it comes to thinking out of the box.

Well, CIYAM, from what I can understand, is actually a few things:

On one hand, you have CIYAM Open, which is actually an app in itself built with the actual "CIYAM" software. (You create things from within, like you said, although not necessarily templating). CIYAM Open is intended to use task based work to supposedly provide higher quality results. I have never had luck on places like freelancer, elancer, etc, because the scammers assholes hard workers there are either over promising and under delivering, or just downright unskilled and misrepresenting themselves. So while you're prepaying them to do something they can't possibly do, they're only thinking about how to do as little work possible (and often purposely fail just so they can keep the "token payment", rinse, repeat). Opposed to that, CIYAM Open was supposed to solve that by forcing people to outline the task at hand, and then bid against each task by others in their field (not by price, but by time-to-complete), forcing the quality to go up, and not throwing all your eggs into one basket. I think it's both nifty and highly secure (as a web app).

On the other hand, CIYAM itself is a highly secure stand alone engine that allows pretty much anything to be built through it securely and simply so that companies (and individuals) can basically design entire software infrastructure (thinks like Facebook, eBay, etc) by just piecing tools together and telling CIYAM what you want. I wouldn't think of it so much as a template as much as an API for creating secure apps. CIYAM is very complex, and CIYAM Open is only now getting simplified. Last I checked there was a full redesign in progress from BitInstant's designer. Can't wait to see it. I guess it will replace sites like Freelancer.

To be honest, I started learning VC++ back when I was learning VB, and it was confusing as fuck for me (I started on BASIC, and everyone says, if you learn VB/BASIC, it fucks you up for real languages-- they're right! I had no idea why you needed to even declare memory space for variables etc! "Isn't that automatic? LAME"). That said, after looking at CIYAM Open and reading about it in Ian's threads, I totally fell in love with C++.

I have *no* idea why anyone would make a financial service these days in anything other than C/C++ now.

Java FTW

I've heard Java is great if you want to do Android apps and such, but not so much for web apps (desktop) because of the need to download and run Java, which is apparently dangerous now(?). Maybe HTML5 and OpenGL are gonna replace both Javascript and Java eventually.

What I have created is something that is very new - there is no coding because there is no need for it - it is not *templating* in any sense that people are familiar with at all.

If you take a look at "Intentional Software" then you might begin to get a glimpse of what that CIYAM platform is about. It can actually create basically any "arbitrary" code you like without you needing to hand-code it.

Imagine templates that are combined with templates many levels deep and some can be as simple as a logical expression such as x = x + y. If you can grasp this then you'll begin to realise that CIYAM is absolutely *nothing* like anything you have seen before.

Java all the way with help of GWT (https://developers.google.com/web-toolkit/overview).

LOL.

You and TradeFortress can go flaming each other somewhere in private, eh?

LOL, thanks for posting that. I haven't seen it in ages!

yeah me too, but clearly for other reasons then you.

Granma locked you in the basement?

No, he said other reasons.

I see. It must have been a traumatic experience so he can't really talk specifics. 

I'm sure yours was more traumatic.

no... are you trying to determine that if its for the same reasons as you?

I have not seen a BSOD for a long long time, because of my sane choice of OS.

But how can you be certain that it's a sane choice?

Clearly he considers it to be otherwise.  ;)

It just happens that most of Linuxie guys (all bad programmers, actually, not programmers at all, but bearded script kiddies in their 30s and 40s), that I met, had issues with grandma eventually having to pay all the bills. They also liked to eat their toenails and they thought it is cool.

My sane choice of OS is Windows Server 2012 where, under Hyper V, I can also enjoy Ubuntu, and yes, much less often other distros).

mine does not crash all the time. :)

Are you sure? Maybe the computer feeding your vat-brain information just tells you it's not crashing.

my uptime is 105 days and 6 hours... :P

Well, that's what the computer tells you. How can you be sure it's telling the truth?

It runs linux? :P

Maybe the computer feeding your vat-brain info is just telling you it runs Linux. How can you be sure?

He can run "waziz my computer runnin" JavaScript from hack-you-in-the-ass.com

$ uname -s
Linux

 
Bill Gates gets richer, and you get poorer.  :D

But again, how can you be sure you even input that command? Your vat-brain computer could just be telling you that you did, and that was the response.

are you saying that the vat controlling computer could run windows? i have to disagree with that. if it did run windows, i would not be able to write this message right now. :P

Perhaps you just think you're writing this message right now.

Some anti-depressants or xanax seem to be in order.

no. if the computer controlling my vat-brain crashed no stuff would happen, it can therefor not run windows. :P

Go over to dank, if you need some love and pharmaceuticals. :D

I never said it did. You're not making claims about the vat computer, though. You're making claims about a computer "you" own. Which may or may not be a simulation inside that other computer. The point is, you can't know if it's actually running linux or not. You can't even be sure you have a computer. All you know is that you think you have a computer, and you think it's running Linux.

but it tells me so, and linux machines does not lie. :P

Lookie, lookie. You are a smart girl aren't you ;)

Wit not your strong point I see.  :D

All you know is that you think it tells you so, and that you think Linux machines don't lie. You can't know either way.

all i know its that i don't know nothing(and that my machine runs linux)!

Ahh, I always dreamed of one as smart as you to take care of all my coupons.

Correction: You think your machine runs Linux. You cannot know either way. You can't even know that you have a machine. You think you do, but you can't be sure it's not just what your brain-vat computer is telling you.

LIAR!!!!!!!!!

How can you be sure, then?

you are not allowed to use such arguments! im the only one that can use solipsism as an argument because, i think therefor i am! and as im the only one that is logically provable thinking here you can not make up soliptic arguments. ITS ALL IN MY HEAD! all i know that i use linux on my machine.

fuck you, im going over to dank, to see funny colors. funny colors does not question my intellectual authority.

http://soliptic.narod.ru/index.html

Rightly so. Peace brother!

If I am just a figment of your imagination, and all this is in your head, then this has been you all along, and you are having an argument with yourself.

And if you're arguing with yourself, you're certainly not competent to judge what operating system you are using, much less whether or not you even have a computer.

Wouldn't you say so? (or did you just?)

:D

no. because i able to impersonate 2 person at once i must be twice as intelligent as both, and intelligent people does not use windows. so i must have a computer with linux, that im using.

So it has been 'two' of you 'guys' in there somewhere talking to yourselves all along?

3, im imaginating you too. but you are kind of stupid, thats why you are not arguing as much, properly why i have imagined you using windows.

Even were that true (and can you claim it is, if there is no such thing as objective truth?), it does not follow that a) you must have a computer, and b) that it is running Linux.

For one, you could just be imagining that you are impersonating two people at once, in which case you would not need a computer at all, and secondly, if you do have a computer, and if it is true that "smart people do not use Windows," then you might be using a Mac. Or even BSD.

im imaginating that im using linux, and therefor it must be true. and you are inconsistent anyways you are a believer in NAP, remember? 

You still haven't explained how that's inconsistent, and we're not talking about that. Don't try to change the subject. We're talking about the fact that you may be a brain in a vat, and therefore unable to state anything conclusively, even about what OS your computer is using, or even if you have a computer or not. All you know is that you think that you do, and you think it is running Linux.

what are our premises in this discussion? except vat-brain... do i have free will? determinism/non-determinism?

And now you're asking your imaginary friend to define the conversation you're having with him?

Boy, are we messed in the head, or what?

oh no. you are talking to your imaginary friend, trying to mess with his imaginary mind.

yup much. :D and thats why its funny.

You're forgetting. You're the solipsist here. I know there to be an objective reality. I'm just reminding you that, as a solipsist, you cannot know anything. You can only think you know something, and even that might just be what the vat-brain computer is telling you.

My Lord! What have I unleashed?!!

are you sure about that? ;)

i think, therefor i use linux(if you think a little bit about it, its true). :D

i know what solipsism is, i did just claim it in the other discussion to win. I imagined a scenario where UPB was not applicable.

but yeah as a solipsist i cannot know anything, that is not based on "i think, therefor at least something exist". but you are allowed to imagine all possible things.

Nothing. you don't exist, and can therefor not take any actions.

And by doing so, you lost.

correct on 2 points - python and javascript are for sloppy jizzwipes. As is Microsoft. Code in C on Linux is the only thing i respect... C++ = faggotry.

im winning!


(remind you of anyone?)

Only the most awesome man currently alive. More Tiger Blood than you can handle.

Simply put from my experience, the main reason that these web apps are HTML/CSS/PHP/Python/Apache/JavaScript/MySQL is because that is what is taught at University if you went there to learn how to code for the web.

Most all web devs that left school in the new millennium regard building for the web using .NET as akin to using tables when creating a layout.

For better or worse, .NET will eventually die a death, purely from not being what is recommended. I have seen several complex web projects which were basically ASP/.NET web projects being converted to HTML/PHP.

Whether you consider this good or not, I leave that up to you.

As a .NET guy myself who has also done lots of Java and PHP dev, I can say that "classic" ASP and ASP.NET webforms should certainly die a horrible death. 

However, the newer ASP.NET MVC platform is the best thing since sliced bread (in my opinion anyways)

Can you create a complex website as easily as this with it: https://ciyam.org/slideshow.html ?

Certainly not, but it's a programming environment, not a point-n-click web app generator.  As a programmer, I'm pretty sure you understand the difference.

Actually CIYAM is also a "programming environment" (although you *can* generate web apps easily also) - my point being that the next generation of programming is going to look a lot more like what I've demonstrated (I would also recommend looking at Intentional Software).

I am pretty sure that the future of software is "software manufacturing" (although maybe not my particular way of doing this of course).

Nice shitstorm OP
10/10

Yeah - I don't think the thread title was really the best way to start any sort of dialog - but at least a few interesting posts have followed.

I'm old, so I use LAMP.

Happy to oblige.

Yes, some MS stuff is very efficient, but most people like being able to apply patches to broken things themselves, and to not have to wait for MS to fix it. That's why so many people like Linux/JS/Python.

I myself use Linux.

Go masturbate on your Office 2010 disc.

Most people can't fix anything in the first place because they don't know how to write code. They use Linux and JS/Python because they are dirt poor and at best have some technical education, so they can dream about themselves being coders. Cheapo startups also like the same crap because investors are cheap, wanting cheap labor.


Unnecessary low blow signalling a jerk and a moron.

Or because they know that as soon as a bug is found, people get to work on fixing it, and it gets sent up and down stream as soon as someone's fixed it?
I mean, that's why I prefer Linux.
That it's free is a bonus.

cf yourself:

That is as idealized as "Navy, the Global Force for Good". Yes, they do something but probably don't really know what are they really doing. That needs brain, not zillions of fixes to JS libraries.

When some big Linux player (and/or so called Linux community, if such exits and is even theoretically possible) accepts and starts pushing D language, I may begin to believe.

What's "D language"? Sounds interesting.

http://dlang.org/

Unfortunately, both Google and Microsoft are too busy promoting their internal fiefdom languages, while one can only hope that Oracle will finally kill Java (they are trying their best) and get crap far from the mind and far from the heart.

Closed source = small number of brains working on problems.
Open source = large (potentially as large as the user base) number of brains working on problems.

I know which I'd rather have.

That such a PC fairyland, I'm embarrassed at myself replying.

For dimwits: PC as in Political Correctness, not Personal Computer

Well, I'd hardly call that a "reply," so I guess you can save your embarrassment.

I'd thought that the "gun control" conversations got heated and rude. Who'da thought there'd be way more rudeness about computer OS's, eh myrkul?

Well, maybe Tonko is Bill Gates. Would explain a few things.

PHP - free
Lynux - free
Phython - free
mysql - free

get the point? I wish I had the time to put something together, but guess what, I work. These kids dream to be one day programmers making tons of money, but think free open software is the way to go. Wondering how they are going to live working for free lol. Linux has only come this far because of the huge amounts of money companies like Google have spent on it to customize it to their needs and saving a ton of money in the process, money that was given to them by the fools that spent countless hours working on it at night. The Google investors thank you all

C'mon myrkul. I understand that making a porn site in Czech Republic cheaply, with all the free Linux and JS tools, does make you biased a bit.
But you just use, not understand the technology. You are basically techno pimp.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Wut?

If I have a Czech porn site, I don't know about it. Shouldn't I be getting some income from that? Dammit, where's my cut?

Bill Gates is too smart to say such things.

I don't know about javascript/Python but linux users are not kid at all.
I bet you don't even know what sudo is.

Windows/MAC users are real kids. They need GUI to do simple works.

and by the way .Net is a joke, even kids can make programs in it.

He made it clear that it is "Microsoft web servers"! I mean, you all remember there was such a misfit called IIS right? Had he said M$ database/directory server I would have given him some credits.

Applies to geniuses too:

http://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/uploads/uncat/dickwad-theory.jpg

tu quoque, please try again.

Brilliant. Just going to keep this somewhere safe for future use.

Trollboy, down, down trollboy. Allow me engage you in a little thought experiment:

Let's assume that 20% of coders at Microsoft don't know what they're doing (probably a LOW estimate).
Now let's assume that 40% of coders building open source tools don't know what they're doing (TWICE the above percentage).
A Microsoft product and an analogous open source product both have roughly the same severity of bugs in them.
The bug in the open source project is:

* found faster (source is available, debugging is simple)
* fixed faster (far more coders submitting patches, no release gating)
* fixes are tested faster (source available, patch/release fast if needed)

Javascript libraries are hardly exemplary of open source software (this served your straw man argument well), many are not GPL
or are commercial, many of them suck, etc. The LAMPPP stack is still far superior to Microsoft in security, reliability, performance,
and TCO - last I checked, this trollwar ended around 2008 with resounding defeat for the Microsoft fanboys.

"The war is over, you can come out of your Windows 2008 Server troll-cave"

Are you... feeding a troll?
Nice post though, I'll keep a link to it somewhere just in case

I actually rather like Windows, for a number of reasons. I also like Linux, for different reasons (some overlap).

Which one is superior depends on what you are doing. When it comes to security, Sorry, OP, Windows loses. Badly. If you can't hack Windows, you shouldn't bother trying.

OTOH, the money behind it attracts more talent, and more specificity in a lot of ways. Digital music is one of those boundary areas where it could go both ways, but right now the best DAW's between the two platforms are definitely windows based. (there is some hope on that front, thankfully)

I have long said that open source has one major strength and one major weakness: Anyone can participate.

One of the things that I have seen happening over the last decade, however, is the open source model participants learning how to monetize their efforts without killing the openness. Some in good ways, some in ugly ways. But it has improved things as "revenge against microsoft" is much less of a motivation in modern OSS circles than it used to be.

All of the above being said, Script kiddies are annoying, but every programmer probably was one once. Me, I'm not a programmer. Tried it, ain't got the juice and I admit it. But my programmer friends started off doing k0o1 L33t scripts back in the day. Eventually they get good, grow up, or go away. Let 'em play.

Fuck you too.


Bah, semi-informed person who fell on TV commercial, imagining himself as a guy in a suit showing percentage pie charts. Go sell cars then!

Anyway, most of the late Microsoft offerings are open sourced as well. ASP.NET, MVC.NET, Web API.
No Office is not open sourced but who cares about that. And no, I don't think JS kiddos made lots of bug fixes for Apache server.
Most Opens Source projects like most of commercial projects boil down to a few really important people anyway. As for the channel for bug reporting and fixing its efficiency is mostly dependent on its organization. It can suck in the case of Open Source project and it can be great in the case of closed source one, and vice versa.

Now go sell the cars, you won't get multi-millionaire with that porn site.

Wow you just can't stop talking about JS
Did a JS programmer rape you?

Keep your private fantasies to yourself, moron.

No, you are!

No, you are,
no you are,
mommy, mommy, he is saying I am and he is,
help mommy mommy.

Retard! Go feed the pigs!

Go f*** yourself. Stop insulting donators!

Oh, we are a religious sect here, eh?

THE DONATORS, what a bunch of big unselfish guys, everybody should bow to them!

A retard like you would obviously bow to any construed, supposed *authority*.

Nice piece of introspection.

There is hope for you.

You will respect my authority!

Wanna go out?!

Sure. But you're paying, and be warned - I'm not a cheap date.

Umm..okay, I'll pas this one.

I'm changing the thread topic:

/topic "[POLL] Should we ban Tonko?"

Just curious, do you two really consider me to be the dickwad, here?

i do.

Well, the opinion of a sociopathic autistic boy-child doesn't really matter in my esteem.

Now that's a burn.  :o

Not that I care, but why?
I don't see what makes him a dickwad
(I didn't go through all the pages though)

a) his reply(it hurts me very deeply :'()
b) he can't see that NAP is inconsistent, and refuses to accept that a state can be a good choice. Explaining it with his "fact" about states, with that it kills people who chooses not to behave in a certain way, and then failing to see that the NAP does the same.

If I thought you were capable of feeling emotions, I might believe you.
The difference being that a State kills people who have done no harm to others, and a NAP-respecting person only kills people in defense.

Great! now you don't even understand what lack of emphaty means.
You just getting stupider and stupider...

when they don't behave in a certain way, yes?

What's emphaty?

And if you were truly hurt by what I called you, may I suggest you do something to change those facts? I know you can't do much about being autistic, and your sociopathy is likewise genetic, but you could try and grow up a little.
 
And any time you want to respond to this, you can:

No. when they DO behave in a certain way. As in aggression against me. If it's you or it's me, it's you. OTOH, if you leave me alone or respect my self, space and property, I'll never deliberately give you offense.

Now contrast that to the state which will cage you and/or kill you simply over some words on a page written by somebody with no ideas that didn't come from "above" and who fears change and loves power.

if it offends me, that you say that i can't commit an aggression against you, you have commited an aggression against me.

No. It doesn't. It offends you. Speech in public has no bearing on your actions, save what you make of it. Thoughts are not evil in themselves, and the transmission of them is how people are naturally equipped to interact. Aggression is ACTION, not speech.

Me, I prefer a layered approach to the NAP as a practical matter. In straight truth, while my philosophy is as above, I also hate killing. So I would, if you were attacking me, try to first control the situation. It would not be my GOAL to kill you, if I could dissuade you instead. And were I unable to dissuade you but gain the upper hand, I would disable you preferentially to killing you. If, OTOH, you get in my face and call me a cocksucker, I'll either say something back or walk away. No HARM done, only ruffled feathers. And harm is the crux of the argument. An it harm no one, do what thou wilt. That old rede is a good moral compass, as opposed to Mr. Crowley's counter "do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law". Anarchists generally choose the former, though with more modern formal language. States ALWAYS choose the latter, because the only check on their actions is how many people they can misdirect.

I prefer the sunday siesta approach to the NAP myself. Anyway, all this talk about sleep methodology is OT.

Now where were we in this thread again? Oh, that's right. Let the slagfest continue!

So you are classifying speech/communication as inaction then?

So yelling "allahu akbar" like a crazy in a crowed train station, and thereby cursing panic, is inaction? Cool, good to know!

Yelling "allahu akbar", is fine. Acting crazy and appearing dangerous is not.

are you telling me how to act? are you limiting my actions?

may i not dress up in a jacket filled with red sausages, and open it while yelling that i love god in a foreign language in a crowed train station?

That does sound dangerous though. In some countries this is called public disturbance. Anything that falls into this category isn't acceptable in these kind of countries.

yes, but we are talking NAP without a state here.

It will be extremely dangerous for you if I'm there. I'm an atheist with an addiction to hotdogs.

I'm not sure I quite understand what you're going for here. Which I guess is to be expected, since like you say, it's not like anything we've seen before. How is CIYAM different than say, Wordpress, or some other CMS? I did watch the slide show.

I've seen these posters before - they exist to do nothing but build up a high post count and then scam someone. That's all I'm going to say on this.

In other news, this is now an uptime thread! Consider the following:

26/05/2013 00:55:51

Thanks for supporting my point with the case of your brain.

Would you care to support your point with the uptime statistics of your non-linux servers supporting your customers? Oh right - Microsoft can't be arsed to create a server OS whose updates don't require a reboot. Note: I am intentionally ignoring BSD, Solaris, etc since he likely has never heard of them.

I feel your pain, I also administer a couple Windows servers that have to be rebooted monthly for patches, but they are in a lesser capacity that can stand some downtime.

The Linux kernel is nothing short of a work of art, in my own personal opinion. If our site has downtime, it is solely the fault of ourselves (for deploying code with bugs) or our hardware (for failing catastrophically). The Kernel can even survive a total failure of certain hardware parts such as processor and RAM, when in a hardware mirrored configuration. As far as I know, Windows doing so without at least a BSOD to show for it is unheard of.

And furthermore, even Microsoft knows the superiority of Linux and its associated components in a high-availability server environment - they use it themselves! It's a very poor practice to completely absolve oneself of one OS or another, or programming language, or anything else - each has its strengths and weaknesses.

Now I will stop feeding the troll, since I have had my say. Can anyone say "forum sliding tactics"?  ::)

Linux is gr8
gcc C++
win32 Xwindow
potato potAto
wtv
i code in C++ / Win32 Lean And Mean;
Got a good GUI / TOOLS lib going  :)

Linux kids gonna grow up!
let it be

If you reread the OP (which you misquoted) I was really talking about the application software and languages, not OSes.

And what's your opinion? Are you OK with Linux>windows?

My home machine:


My server (hosted in NM):

My opinion? I am a troll, since I don't bow to PC Linux Gods, remember?

What does my opinion matter?

As long as I think most of Linuxies/JavaScript/Python kids are retards that should flip burgers at McDonalds, its will never matter.

So Tonko's entire argument is that we should mass genocide against coders who don't use the tools that he prefers?

"Any tool can be the right tool."

http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/dmr/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Red-Green.jpg

Idiotic generalizations. Yeah, you can build a computer from chopsticks as well. Maybe even with a tape and frog legs. Retard!

I guess lamenting against crappy coders using crappy tools is not politically correct when it comes to retarded.

My computers will never see another Windows operating system again. Linux all the way, the OP needs to do their research he/she would find the kids are the ones using Windows. Not saying Windows does not have some awesome tools, but I would rather support open source then big money hungry corporation. Linux is much more secure and customizable to the users needs. Don't forget open source is FREE!  

You want to use windows FINE but don't knock Linux, you have no ground to stand on.

I guess there is a connection between elitism and lacking a sense of humor. huh.

Retarded? Are you some kind of 1950's psychiatrist? No wonder you have a thing against kids - you're way to old for the internets.

That's what all the politically correct dummies say. It is just all them damn elitists, never their own stupidity.

Dem internets, yah!

Irony at its best

Lol, At it's VERY best.