Bitcoin Forum

https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@anonymint/is-monero-s-or-all-anonymity-broken

Anonymint, aka iamnotback has released this article on steemit. Im reading it right now myself but I want to share it here and hopefully get some coding wizards to review it.

Apparently it has caused him to be censored in the Monero reddit when he linked it, so this shows this must be pretty good.

Anonymint aka iamnotback has been a Monero fan and contributor for a long time. Why do you post this in such a negative manner? Do you understand the article's arguments? You just link to the article on Steemit and ask if all anon coins 'are fucked'? No, Monero is not 'fucked'. It's doing very well.

Yes, montero is going down. Listen to Shelby, and everyone else. Sell all your xrm to them.

Like like I said with bcx, the only flaw with monero wrt to Shelby this time around is that he doesn't have enough in his pocket.

Pointing to flaws is being positive towards an open source projects, that is how open source projects improve, you put it in the wild, it gets attacked, then you fix whatever problem, so he is doing a favor to the Monero community.

Im not a coder, I guess you and the other guy replying here also aren't. Im not a blind fanboy of any coin or of any person in the space, im just posting his effort here, and now I need some other coders to review this, ideally from different teams.

So since im not a coder I need to outsource these technical problems into others. Let's see if we have some valuable replies here.

Im not holding XMR, DASH, or any other "anon coin" so I don't really care if it crashes. If it crashes really low and these problems can be fixed, that's called a buy opportunity, but he's describing it as design flaw..

Well said.  I am also looking for some discussion from outsourced experts to refute his claims.

There are some smart people holding decent amounts of Monero so im sure they are interested to see this. For instance that Risto guy that owns a fuckton of BTC, also invested a lot in XMR, so I wonder what he has to say.

Also Greg Maxwell, everyone knows he is a smart guy, and he officially supports XMR, he has a donation address in the forum.

So I would like to see what these 2 think.

There will always be need for Anonymous coins and the demand is still huge, you can see after the Aphamarket was taken down the darknet was renergize because some people are now looking to take Alphanet market share. As long as people still trade guns and drugs there will always be need for these coins

I agree, but Dash and Monero are more and more being challenged by coins like XVG.
I move my XMR and DASH to XVG recently, this coin is under-valuated vs the 2 others.

PIVX looks to be pretty strong from here especially with their latest version.

"I warned you Monero folks back in late 2015 and early 2016 that Zerocash was superior and y’all needed to move on. But of course you never listen. All you know how to do is ridicule and ban me. Payback is a bitch and I’m just getting started ".

Where's the Ron Burgandy GIF?

You may wish to follow the discussion in https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/6r2xsm/is_moneros_anonymity_broken/ The bottom line: The attack proposed fails in Monero because of Monero's adaptive blocksize and tail emission. I see little point in discussing this here any further since the author of the blog in question has been banned on this forum.

Edit: The case of Dash is fundamentally different from Monero and should in my opinion be discussed in a Dash forum or thread where the author of the blog has not been banned.

that is pretty strong hit into MONERO fundamentals. Bad thing is that when you create something then you will always surfer from something diffrent.
iamnotback - I wanted his solutions to this problem if will work

If anything, I gained more confidence in Monero.  He's saying in order to break Monero's anonymity complicit miners basically need to control a good part of the network and create a ton of fake transactions in order to mark other users transactions.  They also have to be able to mine their own transactions!   Also complicit miners need to control a big portion of the hashrate and they will be able to afford to do this by "selling your identities"? Catch 22?  All this appears to be a very far-fetched scenario and would very noticeable as the transaction volume spikes up.  

The scenario basically is that the government takes over Monero mining, doing massive number of fake transactions and big data analytics and it's game over.  That goes for every crypto right.  

Is it me or is the recent news of WannaCry where every researcher and blockchain analyst said Monero is completely anonymous, it's blockchain is opaque and we can't trace anything resulted in a strategy from FBI, NSA coming up with a strategy to FUD on Monero so it doesn't gain adoption?  

If you read this forum for last 3 years people are are saying that and posting. You dont need to read that is mainstream media to believe.  Monero is fungible and it is ideal for all exchanges because they cant check from where founds come to the wallet that had deposit on their exchange so no worries at all. With BTC and all other coins they will always need to check million transactions if that BTC was maybe on MtGox one day or deposited by Putin to Trump.

Monero is real crypto currency. The one Satoshi wanted to make.

whats monero?

The fact that the XMR shills are always so pathetic could only mean one thing: there's something to it.
The FBI coin, lol, no matter from which side you look at it.

The whole discussion is pointless, anyway. People give up their identity willingly at the endpoints, holding up their photo ID for the exchanges. Or they are screenshot on their OSs.

With rising commercialisation and regulation the use of mixers and other methods of anon transactions could even become a felony soon, unless there are backdoors built in for law enforcement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZi9xx6aiuY

Just found this on Reddit, someone made a bit longer Beginners guide to Monero. http://thecryptotrading.com/quick-beginners-guide-to-monero-xmr/   If that video is to short :P



Monero is open source. Everyone can read what is in code.  Open source means that everyone can read what is in code so see what is there. Is nothing secret or hidden. 

Whats your point being open source?

One more thing:
Ring CT has a single point of failure, once its exploited the whole thing is blown.

Great article!

I disagree about ALL altcoins being "fucked", but in reality most of them will die. In fact, most have already died. There are countless that were once traded, but are no longer traded on any exchange.

Look at feathercoin or klondike coin, for example. Both were highly anticipated, yet now they aren't worth more than 10,000 satoshis each. Sadly, this is and will be the case for most of them.

Saying that is like that with flat tire you cant drive car. But it is also hard to drive without steering wheel and when is rain even without the roof. Sort of everything is important, or would not be there.
Yes it is normal that with flat tire you cant normally drive car. You still can go super slow but that is not real driving.

Ring CT is important part that provides anonymity in Monero, you can see this on link i provided, but far from only one. Alone is far from enough. And there will be new things added constantly as they were so far. We are only at beginning of a road.

I was taught that every lock can be unlocked, it is just a matter of time when. You mention Ring CT, so next time you should also add an estimation when and with how big chance. Talking of 0.000001% chances in 1000 years is a bit silly.  



PS: I now expect totally new argument from you LOL, maybe something about bot mining or no development found or big transaction size.

To return to anonymint, He claims PoW is fail and all PoW coins including Monero and  Bitcoin are to fail. I dont think there is any coin in existence he would not find a point of failure.

What you mean by what is the point? A project that is closed source cannot be audited and you need to trust the developers, a project that is open source can be audited and many talented programmers can tell if there is a bug or a backdoor in the code, being open source is key for any project, especially one like monero.

No i don't think monero and dashcoin are bad for investing because of the price is going down, all of altcoins are always fluctuating its price ( goes up and down), but monero and dashcoin are good for investment, they have uniques fetures. Life or dead altcoins depend on the comunity of altcoins ( Dev team, miners and other), for example we can see dogecoin is still alive until right now.

Apologies, I was having a drink when writing that. I agree, and would in fact love an opportunity to sell a kidney if Monero hit 2.50 ever again. Mostly I was just trying to point out that when it comes to talking down Monero, most people are quite lacking.

Specifically in this latest iteration, I can't imagine a situation where Shelby wasn't capable of linking the facts that there is no zero subsidy in Monero, and there is also an adaptive block size, I give him far more credit than that.

So, I am left with the only thought left, which is that Shelby is once again trying to fleece newbs, like bcx did with his 'monero exploit' two and a half years ago or so.

https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@anonymint/re-anonymint-re-anonymint-is-monero-s-or-all-anonymity-broken-20170805t222300726z

Would you notice right now, if for example there was 1 real transaction per block (as probably is likely given the close-to-zero adoption of Monero) and 4 Sybil transactions?



They can purchase the data needed when they need it. Someone else can do the mining and Sybil transactions for profit. Analytics could be done for every crypto (except for Zcash) yes, but it would be especially attractive to do that on a crypto where its users think they are anonymous.



If you had a honeypot, would you say it was or wasn't?

Monero receives a more fair treatment in this comment:

https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@joewilder/re-anonymint-re-joewilder-re-anonymint-is-monero-s-or-all-anonymity-broken-20170806t152332998z

Seems that Monero folk are trying to sweep this under the rug?

I found (https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@anonymint/re-joewilder-re-anonymint-re-joewilder-re-anonymint-is-monero-s-or-all-anonymity-broken-20170806t180629291z) copies of the posts (https://gist.github.com/shelby3/67d990230e2dc9eb8be9e43e0b0b77a7#gistcomment-2171162) @fluffypony deleted.

Unfortunately this type of censorship campaign is standard operating procedure for the Monero core team. In addition, they also have a long history of engaging in attacks on individuals and competing projects whom they perceived as threats.

Fluffypony recently censored his hired mathematician who goes by the alias "Shen Noether" from their github when he voiced concerns about RingCT. Although he is a mathematician, not a cryptographer, he was the only person involved in Monero capable of contributing anything meaningful to their project.

https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/issues/4

I personally don't have any respect for Shen or his work due to his involvement in a coordinated attack on the Shadowcash project. Instead of handling things politely like any other academic would he stooped to Fluffy & co's level and contributed to the smear campaign. That said, he still shouldn't be censored for his opinions on the project or his own work toward the project.

Monero has FUD'd and smeared their way to the top market caps without doing anything of major note. I wouldn't be surprised if the DNM that added Monero was part of a larger marketing strategy to get Monero attention. The oasis market was around just long enough to convince AB to add it then as soon as they did it pulled an exit scam. What that tells me or anyone with half a brain is that their sole purpose was to get a legit DNM to add Monero not to service customers.

Maybe FBI reports of looking into Monero is more geared towards that front than the actual codebase. Now with those out of the way and "Shen" no longer contributing it seems the only place Monero can go is downward.

Markets can remain irrational for longer than the short can remain solvent.

Burst didn't collapse after this post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1323657.msg19868944#msg19868944) for example.
It went down tho.

I still think they have tons of potential. I especially like how Dash is able to fund development and marketing.

Monero, Dash, Zcash and altcoin anonymous are best coin for UG market, why the price of them can't increasing when Bitcoin is fresh cryptocurrency? I don't know the reason the price of them still cheap, special Monero stand still the price 0.015 in long time, from early year until today, it still can't breakout taget 0.03 per coin >:(

No growth in adoption? No surge to keep price moving up. Dark markets likely have a lower ceiling and aren’t likely a growth market, beause illegality doesn’t have good network effects.
When 0.5% of the (criminally inclined) population is trying to network with each other, economies-of-scale are low. Why do ya think Dash branched out into “instant payments”.


Did you see this:

Yesterday, Verge Dev proofed on Twitter that Monero user-IPs can be found in the network.. I think Monero is going down.

In that blog he dismissed Verge (https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@anonymint/re-anonymint-re-anonymint-is-monero-s-or-all-anonymity-broken-20170805t222300726z) as also being onion routing same as Tor/I2P which are known honeypots.

But on a pure speculative analysis, the XVG chart appears to be in a wedge that is nearing its big move.
Could Verge be the beneficiary of a Monero decline given that Zcash is just too damn slow for payments (up to minutes)?
As I understand it, he had proposed a different way of using the zkSNARKs to make it fast for real-time payments in his project.
If he is correct about Verge onion routing technology being not suitable, then perhaps it will just be a pump that will not sustain?

We dont have any choice and we cant do anything about it. Monero have been known for its complete anonymity but as being said above it can already traced by its IP which is really a shocking thing for me.
Looking back that Bitcoin is commonly used in UG transactions until monero have popped out. If prices would still remain or maintain then demand of it would really be still lesser. If they are already being traced they they are complete fucked up.

Well, I think it's a difference wheter it is Tor (Honeypot) or a general issue where IPs are easy visible...

Complete anonymity? This report states over 87% of all transactions were able to be traced back to the real output and their study extends to RingCT. This is what happens when you have a bunch of unqualified developers working on cryptosystems.. It's not completely unexpected though, Fluffypony is the "lead developer" and he isn't even a developer.. he's a troll who's sold the public a bag of shit wrapped up in tinfoil and they believe its platinum.
https://eprint.iacr.org/2017/338.pdf

I spoke with the authors about Boolberry's approach to solving the Cryptonote traceability issue and they stated "its definitely a step in the right direction." One thing to note here is that Boolberry's developer, crypto_zoidberg, launched this fix right out of the gate in 2014. He was able to identify this flaw years before this report was published which leads me to believe he probably had a hand in the creation of the Cryptonote protocol.
https://www.slideshare.net/boolberry/boolberry-solves-cryptonoteflaws-37055246

To correct your statement. Monero is most anon and untraceable and fungible cryptocoin in existence. It has long way to achieve an ideal of  "complete anonymity". If that is not just a myth.
On internet you can always be traced by IP unless you change it regularly. Most people know that. that s why there are some programs that change IPs.  This is how some of my friends from Iran was able to play games that was forbidden to be played from Iran.

Verge is a Bitcoin clone that has build in it such program. That is only thing special about it. Bitcoin + hide IP.

Monero dont have hide IP.  Since Monero is not a copy/paste Bitcoin clone it had other priorities so far. But, but but. Kovri is almost here. Hide IP program that will be part of Monero. 



Before Ring CT anonymity in Monero was optional and miners ofcourse did not chose their transactions to be anonymous. I find that totally normal. Most coins that try to be anonymous still have such feature to chose to have anon or transparent transaction. They should definitely ready this paper you posted. Oh they wrote it. Then is all good.

Seems that the dismissiveness of Monero “experts” has been  challenged. (https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@anonymint/re-anonymint-re-joewilder-re-anonymint-re-joewilder-re-anonymint-is-monero-s-or-all-anonymity-broken-20170810t225009531z)

He wrote (https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@anonymint/re-shifty0g-re-anonymint-is-monero-s-or-all-anonymity-broken-20170805t121358427z) that low-latency onion routing such as Tor and I2P are honeypots.
Why is Monero adding another alleged honeypot technology to their existing alleged honeypot technology?
Whose “expertise” can we trust on any of this?

No, the USD is.

I have no ideas. I think to hide your IP automatically not that you need some special IP changing provider. It is still in alpha so I guess only some knows how will work. and if it will not work will be abandoned. 
But you have plenty Verge guys here and on this forum and on Twitter, they offers you bitcoin with an already working IP changer. So you should ask them what is the point to offer a transparent block chain with a honeypot.   Lets hope the will give you a satisfying answer.

This site shows the linkability of Monero:

https://monerolink.com/

Note the above is without the additional vulnerabilities which @AnonyMint detailed. Thus even 10 ring sigs mixes may be still insufficient.

More details:

https://steemit.com/shadowbrokers/@zooko/re-synapse-re-crazyflashpie-re-synapse-re-demotruk-re-synapse-re-theshadowbrokers-theshadowbrokers-monthly-dump-service-june-2017-update-20170606t153120581z

P.S. Zooko-Wilcox the CEO and lead dev of Zcash commented on (https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@zooko/re-anonymint-is-monero-s-or-all-anonymity-broken-20170811t161441441z) AnonyMint’s blog.

Thanks a lot for posting this! I didn't know that, if it's true it can undermine a lot of monero's potential.. Let's see how it will end

Pure nonsense. Monerolink only applies to very old transactions that intentionally turned off privacy by setting mixin to zero.

Anonymint is a well known Monero hater. His mathematics knowledge is a joke; just enough to be able to waste the time of Monero's PhD cryptographers. He's been coming up with imaginary vulnerabilities since 2014. They require ridiculous conditions which exist only in his head. For his vulnerabilities to work, an attacker would have to own over 80% of all outputs on the blockchain, and also continue to generate new transactions to maintain that. In other words, they might work if you created your own testnet, but never on Monero's blockchain.

Meanwhile, it's almost certain that Zcash has a deanonymization backdoor, as hinted at by Zooko and Matthew Green. So Zcash is almost certainly a honeypot, with even less privacy than Bitcoin. It's not surprising that they would put out fake news on Monero, as their inferior system can't compete without deception and tricks.

Liar. Readers click the monerolink and you can see for yourselves.


Liar. That has already been refuted in the comment section where the MNL-001 research report was discussed and refuted by him.

Lying will not help you.


The Monero snobbishness knows no bounds. Even @fluffypony does not trust @Shen_noether and censored his own PhD mathematician in Github.

I'm a liar? Ok, I have great news for you then. Why not use your fake news Monerolink tool to win the bounty in this challenge: www.monerotrackingchallenge.com/
Please claim the prize.

It seems you're the only liar here. Most likely a shill hired by Zooko to promote his honeypot coin.

As to your comment about snobbishness, sorry, but the guy has no credentials, little or no relevant work in the field of cryptography, zero published papers, where's his credibility? Then he has the audacity to make grandiose claims on subjects which he does not fully comprehend. Thanks, but I'll take the word of the PhDs over some internet rando.

P.S. If you need confirmation of that guy's separation from reality, read about the latest imaginary attack he came up with. Apparently, he thinks that miners would nuke the value of their own hardware to steal coins from Segwit transactions. Coins which would immediately drop in value to zero. So is the attack theoretically possible? Yeah, on a testnet you can simulate it. But in the real world, the one that has rational actors and economic incentives, the attack will never transpire.

Shitpost. Although the article does make valid points I'm surprised it was censored on reddit if that is true.

The vulnerabilities that @AnonyMint detailed requires a powerful adversary that is invested in mining.

Also he has called out Monero to do rigorous math on what level of mixins would be required to counter those vulnerabilities. Zooko-Wilcox has now concurred that he would like to see that work done.

So thus you guys go mix the hell out of 23 Easter eggs (perhaps you mixed them 1000 UTXO or more) and then claim that as refutation of anything, just goes to show what devious liars you are.

The monerolink (by Andrew Miller, a highly respected cryptographer) clearly shows that those who trusted Monero’s lies back in 2015 and 2016 are likely fucked. And now you pile on more lies.


You do not comprehend the subject matter, that is why you mistakenly think he does not comprehend.

Send your experts to debate him. He has been waiting. He refuted @smooth, @ArticMine, etc on Reddit.

I don't think Monero ever claimed to have a perfect system. I would be extremely skeptical of anyone who claims they do. At the end of the day, it's probably impossible to be totally private from a highly motivated adversary who has significant (state level) resources.

Anyone who has half a brain knows that all cryptocurrencies are highly experimental, and thus prone to failure. If anyone was lied to in 2015 or 2016, it was self delusion. I don't recall Fluffypony, Smooth, Arcticmine or any other high level Monero contributor ever making unrealistic guarantees. If anything, Monero is one of the best cryptocurrencies in regard to maintaining realistic expectations.

All dead soon, with lightning et segwit... welcome to MimbleNimble, and welcome to bitcoin to 10K ( look at  Grin )

It's sad but it's like that, all thes laboratories will disappear. Only one true king on the throne.

One article on Steemit and all alts are worthless? Few days ago i've withdrawn btc,thay have been confirmed after 4 houres than used dash,thay were in my accounts afer 5 min.If Seawitt will b not succesfoul yu will see how btc is fucked

Optional anonymity generally means your anonymity set is abysmal. There are some ZK type solutions for this, but those have other tradeoffs. You do realize that MimbleWimble provides more benefit to Monero than it does to Bitcoin right? Bitcoin will have a transparent base layer, with second layer privacy, while Monero will have a private base layer, and the exact same second layer privacy. So Monero will have its place.

Bitcoin will go to 10k, but you're delusional if you think altcoins are going away. Even in the case where altcoins offered absolutely no meaningful advantage over Bitcoin, there would still be altcoins, just because people like to gamble.

That Steemit article is not likely the cause of alts being down. Rather it is Bitcoin’s vertical move up that sucked money out of altcoins—perhaps temporarily. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2090741.msg20905083#msg20905083)

---

I see you continue editing your posts:


You’re a simpleton thinker who doesn’t understand relativity and the Economics 101 concept of that supply meets demand at the marginal cost producer (https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@anonymint/re-anonymint-re-anonymint-re-anonymint-re-anonymint-shocking-crisis-coming-to-cryptocurrency-in-sept-20170814t065451341z). Also you fail to understand who controls the only two ASIC fabs i in the world and what their objective is (not profit, but absolute power).

For me I wouldn't that ways either because everything was now turned back to normal situations. Alts has a great help for many who participated om different campaigns as well and yet monero,  dash or whatsoever I thinks it's so promising in the future.

So they would throw away their money, destroy Bitcoin, and by doing so empower alternatives that don't use POW? The Chinese have better ways to control Bitcoin than destroying any confidence that people have in it.

Can’t you read the link I provided to you?


Don’t you see Bitmain creating alternatives such as Litecoin, Bitcoin Cash, and NEO? Jihan has all his balls in play to capture all the outflow and using relativity to extract our money from us.

Interesting that you exclude Ethereum, which would likely be the primary recipient of outflow in the event of such an attack. Currently POW, but with all the adderall that Vitalik is chugging, he's bound to jury rig something at least mostly functional. The point is, if the headlines read "Bitmain steals Segwit coins!" rational people are not going to move into another Chinese coin.

Hard to not see Monero having a place at the table when the dust has settled. It will be the derided as the sketchy/black-market coin, but that kind of thing will never go away

Well written article. Monero has staying power, and even the author states it will likely be medium-term before Monero runs into issues. IMO, medium term isn't something to worry too much about

Is this for real or what??

I like Zcoin.

What does the author mean when he says Tor is a honeypot too?

I know Tor was originally developed by the US Navy.

I skimmed through the article and I believe it might be true. And yet this doesn't mean it's the end for these coins, just like you say. Firstly, not many people are going to trust this info and believe there are some unsolvable security problems with these coins. Secondly, other projects in which these coins will be involved will help to maintain the price. For instance, a chain of cafes in my country is planning to accept dash as a payment. This may lead people who have very limited understanding of cryptocurrencies and don't care about anonymity use it.

He rebutted you (https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@anonymint/re-anonymint-re-anonymint-re-anonymint-re-anonymint-re-anonymint-shocking-crisis-coming-to-cryptocurrency-in-sept-20170815t182832680z):

Purpose of any article/news/story is to make you believe in the content and make you flow with it.
But how many times have we seen such articles about btc/eth or any currency etc.
If you will see such stores about btc back in 2012/13/14 era, people will be shocked to see the negativity about it.
But all negativity carries some positive charge also.

It's something to be cautious about.

These were the hype tech coins of the 2014-2016 era, This year had ethereum and who knows what will be pumped next. Many of these old coins still have large amount of fans so their price can stay high in the future.

Wow, how clever ::)

If he spent half the time working on his vaporware coin as he spends insulting others and arguing online, maybe it wouldn't be vaporware. Is it because his ego has led him to write a check that he can't cash? Can't make the coin, so he shitposts instead. That's what his situation looks like to an outside observer.

Just to be clear, my animosity towards Anonymint is due to his constant claims of having an amazing solution, while never releasing it. e.g. He comes into a technical discussion, points out what he perceives to be a flaw, and claims his solution fixes the flaw. Said solution remains vapor. How can anyone take someone who does that over and over seriously?

If he were to release a coin that was superior to what we have now, I'd be the first to admit I was wrong.

If anon coins were actually being used, you'd see it in the transactions. Here is the dash and monero transactions plotted on a graph:

https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/transactions-dash-xmr.html

At most Dash managed about 8,000 transactions a day in April. And Monero is doing about half that. Looks like people in the dark markets prefer bitcoin.

Most DNM users are degenerate druggies. Of course they use Bitcoin, they're drugged out, lazy, and resistant to change. Pain will be their teacher. It's already known that blockchain analysis provided investigators with evidence that would have helped convict Cazes, had he not died. The latest series of busts provided law enforcement with a huge trove of data. Over the next year they'll use this data to go after AB/Hansa users. Blockchain analysis will help. In time, the DNM users who refuse to use Monero will be selected against (sent to the slammer), while the smartest of the druggies will go on with their lives.

These sorts of transitions can't be expected to happen overnight.

I'm in contact with him in http://Crypto.cat and he has the username ecash there.
I am not him, which mods can verify by my IP address and his address as he still reads on his old account.

He told me today in chat that he wants you to know he smiled about the above quote.

I have read the technical specification of his Bitcoin killer.
Not sure if I entirely understand all of it, but of what I understand, it seems plausible and novel.


You may want to try to rebut my additional points (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2095328.msg20943630#msg20943630) about Monero at Theymos' thread.

Which ones are immune to quantum computers? If none then all anon coins are fucked for sure.

The technical and political evidence (https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@anonymint/re-shifty0g-re-anonymint-is-monero-s-or-all-anonymity-broken-20170805t121358427z).


Zcash’s Zerocash (aka zkSNARKs) technology appears to be quantum computing resistant for the anonymity (but not for spending nor transparent control of the money supply) as
it depends on the security of hash functions (and not in the way your IOTA claims that PoW is insecure (https://iota.org/IOTA_Whitepaper.pdf#page=24) in Bitcoin against quantum computing).

The spending of Bitcoin tokens can be secure against quantum computing (despite the aforementioned PoW flaw).

See the Zerocash section (https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@anonymint/is-monero-s-or-all-anonymity-broken) for the details.

Honeythimble at best.

No doubt about ZCash - sketchy backers, Zookos anti-privacy stance in tweets (fkin bizarre for a privacy crypto developer), state Intel development, toxic waste problem and Alphabay takedown five days after they start using it.

---

More witless fall into the woodchipper (https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/6r2xsm/is_moneros_anonymity_broken/dm7748s/?context=3).

Yeah they are not f****d, there are plenty of reasons for them to stick around. Especially Dash, it really intrigues me, I may even get one of the 25 shared masternodes to get some free dividends,

From what I've read, technologically they are.
And another highly shocking blog which is coming (which will explain that proof-of-stake, proof-of-work, and existing DAGs are all fucked) and a project which is coming is going slaughter all of them emphatically.

This is not a joke.
You had better be taking profits on this current bubble (although it might still run up for more weeks or months).

This person has publicly (https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@anonymint/re-finitemaz-re-anonymint-shocking-crisis-coming-to-cryptocurrency-in-sept-20170731t083723885z) called every significant move correctly (https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@anonymint/re-finitemaz-re-anonymint-shocking-crisis-coming-to-cryptocurrency-in-sept-20170730t055803737z), including
  BTC to $5000+ (https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@anonymint/re-audr1us-re-anonymint-re-anonymint-re-anonymint-re-anonymint-re-anonymint-re-anonymint-shocking-crisis-coming-to-cryptocurrency-in-sept-20170817t065433963z),
  BCH to ~$1000 (https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@anonymint/re-anonymint-re-anonymint-re-anonymint-shocking-crisis-coming-to-cryptocurrency-in-sept-20170805t204527199z) (will rise again to $1000+ after BTC peaks), and
  LTC to $75+ (https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@anonymint/re-audr1us-re-anonymint-re-anonymint-re-anonymint-re-anonymint-re-anonymint-re-anonymint-shocking-crisis-coming-to-cryptocurrency-in-sept-20170817t065433963z).
  He even wrote 16 days ago (https://gist.github.com/shelby3/67d990230e2dc9eb8be9e43e0b0b77a7#gistcomment-2171422) that XMR would get one more big spike which it did.


Yeah 100s of greater fools reasons.
But verifiable adoption in the millions on the first fairly distributed altcoin to the masses is going to be impossible for these fucked shitcoins to verifiably equal.
That is one of the facets that is going to put an end to the lies that sustain all the shitcoins on coinmarketcap.com



Dash is technological nonsense (https://gist.github.com/shelby3/444f41a27c188b244bac7e950b555716#dash-coinjoin-and-masternodes) as well as being a masternode scam.
You apparently don't even understand a basic finance concept known as compounding.
Additionally Dash is actually obfuscated proof-of-stake (not proof-of-work, due the mining revenue paid to Evan's oligarchy scam), which has been shown to only function as an oligarchy (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2095328.msg21164357#msg21164357).

Yes, most special is Monero cannot increase many more the price of it in early this year, this is reason today Monero had increased x3 in one week. I believe Dash will increase like Monero soon, just after Monero complete pump to the moon.

The problem with Monero is that it is much harder to scale, if compared to Bitcoin. Still one of the best cryptocurrencies out there, and better than Dash, imo.

I'd love to know Shelby's take on Mimblewimble.

http://mimblewimble.cash/

I hardly think so, as long as there is a need for conducting financial transactions anonymously there will be a need for anon coins.

In fact, almost every token will see now would be drowning in hurricane harvey by the end of the year 2018 :D

You're wrong! anonymous coins will stay and will continue dominating the market, privacy plays a very important role in the crypto ecosystem.

Correct, privacy and ease-of-use are THE most important features going forward imo.

Interesting.
Ease of use: Obviously

But don't you think that privacy may be a hindrance for mass adoption ? (On the client side, and vendor side)
I struggle to see how vendors like Overstock or Ebay would accept such anon coins.

Please can you develop your theory? Much appreciated. Thanks

MINERO MIINERO IS SUCH A GOOD COIN ... i invested all of my BTC to hinm.... i believe on him so much ...
how i did said that ? ive been on the trading industry and i watched that minero ting it is fck as good and climb the tree so goo ..
i am gathering money now because of this MINERO THING

"Minero"? New currency?

That is not the question. The question was if Monero, Dash and other anonCoins are REALLY safe.

Hi! In my opinion, privacy is important because there will ALWAYS be some little miscreants online who NEED to do anon transactions. Therefore, the demand is there, permanently. And don't forget they are prepared to "pay through the nose" for it (privacy, that is). All questions of legality aside, their demands will be met by suppliers (legally, or illegally). In fact things, that are "illegal", "forbidden" and "risky/exotic" usually get MORE expensive when they are driven underground. I guess my point is that you don't always need "mass adoption" to achieve a very high price per coin. Cheers, V.

The only anonymous cryptocurrencies are those that deploy Zero Knowledge Proofs. Zcash, ZCoin and Bitcoin (will have zkSnarks next year). Monero uses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_through_obscurity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_through_obscurity) and is in no way anonymous.

Correct, but in Zcash the total supply is not auditable, and "Zooko" and "Green" have decreed that they will endorse the creation of backdoors in Zerocash to "trace criminals". But who decides who is a criminal in a supposedly anonymous network?

Wasn't the backdoor already added? Or that blackmarket taken down by FBI right after they added ZEC was a coincidence?  :D

Ikr, it's a complete joke..

Thanks a lot. It makes sense.

Cheers.

No problem, perhaps you would like to view these things?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4zOvMMqnBM_DLrtA4_XwGA/videos

monero is a very good coin for a long time. nothing is messed up with monero.
monero has given me several times profit in my trade. and until now the monero is running well.

"A very good coin" = "Something that made me money." Hmmm...does anybody actually think like that!?

I actually did buy XZC when it was at 0.0022 days ago.
Technology looks promising, and its price is 10x below its direct competitors.
The TA was good and 0.0022 was a great price on the chats (still is)

I wanted to make sure I was re-putting money in a vertical that makes sense: privacy (i got burnt on XVG a while ago...). I feel more convinced now.

Thanks

Good choice! I can see you've got your "head screwed on".

Hmmm... a traceable anon coin by design. Perhaps this is just a master plan preventing anon coins from being "fucked". Zooko is a genious!!!

Good reason to support Zcoin, which was not only first, but also superior as it does not have the issues you just described.

I think not for monero. monero still has a long way to go as altcoin, and I think it can still grow and still have good potential.

I really don't think so. People in crypto love anonymity and this will prevail.

All it's going to take is the first person to be put in jail based on deanonymized transactions in monero for that to crash. 

The others seem like they may be better -- but the crypto is somewhat untested and resource heavy. 

That is probably the case. I have seen law enforcement agencies tracing the Bitcoin transactions and arresting those who purchased the drugs with Bitcoins. But I have never heard about an incident in which an anonymous crypto-coin such as Monero or Blackbytes was traced back to a particular individual. So as of now, I don't think that there is anything to worry. 

In terms of anonymity, Monero is the leading coin. Bitcoin was promoting their coin as completely anonymous way before but then it proved to be not totally. Law enforcement agencies have their own team of brilliant people and they were able to trace people involved with malicious activities even if they use BTC. Here comes Monero, and the anonymity level of crypto is taken a notch higher. So far, it proved to be really hard tracing Monero transactions with their respective identities.

But what do you think about it? Do you think that Monero users can be traced by the law enforcement agencies in the future? I am a hardcore supporter of web anonymity. But that doesn't mean that I support criminal activities such as child pornography and trafficking of girls. I have no issues, if the law enforcement agencies trace pedophiles through Monero.

That's because they haven't tried very hard yet.

There's no way to have an anonymous coin that isn't anonymous when the people using it are criminals. It's all or nothing.

Monero has a huge potential.it needs some few years to develop.

Monero is not something that a novice trader can make their living on. Most coins don't have that many people selling the coins even if they have large bag holders.

Anonymous coins could possibly end up as “black money” that will cause someone accepting the money to be imprisoned for up to 20 years (as of current USA legislation):


Note apparently as the law stands now, the person accepting the money has to have some knowledge or suspicion that the money might be derived from criminal activities in order to be culpable under the current law in the USA. Also, I have not been able to find the same personal level of criminal culpability in the EU laws yet in my searches. Most definitely not in Finland:

http://www.finlex.fi/en/laki/kaannokset/2008/en20080503.pdf



Tie the above quote into the following:

All of this is thereotical right now and currently, XMR is probably still the most anonymous and trusted anon coin out there. Dash and ZCash can't really even be considered to be anon, since anonymity is not enforced.

If this is true(can't really understand half the things he said, i'm not a big technical guy), then it's never too late for their respective teams to work on solving the issue. There is never going to be perfect anonymity, only better or worse.

Well if the cryptocurrencies can't ensure anonymity then I guess they are useless. The for which people follow the cryptocurrency is to be anonymous. There must be some solid steps taken by the technical teams otherwise they to listen to the music. Monero is not doubt one of them leading to anonymity but the problem with monero is that it can't sustain it's price in a well manner. If it could respond in a good manner to bear the pressure built by bitcoin price then it will be the favourite one.

Why fucked? That was a hasty generalization that is purely based on fears that have no basis whatsoever. This can be placed in the category of FUDs. Monero and Dash are still leading in the world of anonymous coins, as well as ZEC. These 3 coins are the top when it comes to hiding your identity. Deeponion is introducing itself to be like them but I have doubts.

No are not, is just a natural thing what happened now, these technologies are new. Do not forget this and will have some problems until they fix them.

The current USA law criminalizes (up to a 20 year felony) accepting money that has a known criminal origin, but apparently if you have no reasonable idea of it being criminal in origin, then the law does not currently criminalize it.

But the thing is that if you’re accept money from anonymous source, then you have not done the basic due diligence to insure you have reasonable belief that the money is not of criminal origin. So it is possible that all anonymous sources may become illegal to accept.

The USA appears to be the worst in this area so far. As I wrote, I could not find such criminalization of individuals (except for someone acting in some professional capacity that is AML regulated) in the Finnish law which I cited, at least for now.

In short, I think absolute anonymity is not going to hold up over the long-term as viable. The nation-states are going to have an incentive to criminalize “black money” as their hunt for taxes intensifies as the sovereign debt crisis accelerates with the coming short dollar vortex which is really going to accelerate in 2018.

Anonymity as a privacy right, where the payee knows the identity for payer, might however remain viable and allowed (because the payee can still report the paper trail to the authorities). Without privacy, businesses can not even use cryptocurrency because it means their competitors could track their activity. There are many other reasons that privacy is important and needed by society. Thus anonymity technologies remain important.

But note that if payees are reporting payers to the authorities, this is the sort of meta data collapse that I mentioned in my blog (linked from the OP) which is the subject of this thread. And thus the Zcash’s technology (not necessarily the current Zcash implementation though) could (in theory) be more reliably anonymous than the Monero/Cryptonote/RingCT technology. Which was the conclusion I made in my blog.

Note Zcash (Zk-snarks actually) has some performance limitations which were discussed in the comments that ensued at my blog. And this has to be addressed for it to be truly viable. Thus technologically anonymity is not yet a solved issue. There are potentially zk-STARKS coming and I heard that Monero is even looking into these new technologies.

Frankly though, I do not think any purely anonymity coin will survive long-term. The best anonymity technology will be folded into the most widely adopted altcoin and then that will be the end of the separate anonymity coins eventually.

---

Here we go again with someone who can’t read.

And no, I am not going to repeat all the information again just for you. You can learn to read or continue telling others to eat dogfood.


Dash’s technology is absolute nonsense (https://gist.github.com/shelby3/444f41a27c188b244bac7e950b555716#dash-coinjoin-and-masternodes) and I wish disingenuous shills would stop making us repeat that. But let them eat their dogfood. Additionally, anyone who thinks onion routing is reliable anonymity apparently has not studied the threat vectors.

Anon coin prices are all connected to dash price and dash price is dropping after asic releases .
and more asics are on the way. will drop more.

There's currently a huge bounty available to anyone who's able to "break" Monero.

It remains unclaimed.

That is the answer to your question.

No it is not the answer. This line of argument was rebuked in the follow-up comments and discussions at or linked from the blog. (In short, the vulnerability requires an adversary with far more resources than any of us individuals commenting here have at our disposal)

Vcash also had a bounty for anyone that could break it, but that was not representative of the fact that it was dogshit.

How tired do I get of every one of 1000s of n00bs come in this thread and make some statement that is nonsense and had already been refuted many times. Does that mean it is my job to repeat myself 1000s of times to prevent you from spreading misinformation. I am actually not paid to do so.

Deeponion is a scam.  It's just a copy of another tor clone coin.

XVG is the one. I believe this anon coin will eventually out do the others and is very cheap at the moment.

I like verge, but it has too large a supply and not enough development going on. 

If they start delivering on their roadmap, maybe. 

So you think simply because somebody wrote an article about new anon coin and the fact that such article was ban shows that the said anon is replacing monero? You are funny dude. Years of development can not be replace by article or hype of new anon coin.

Years of development doesn't mean that it is perfect. For an example, all you need to see is the new forum software. :D
On a serious note, anonymous coins have a niche space. I don't think they will outgrow that.

what do means coin fuck??
stop say something if u dont know about that..
if that fuck coins we already forgot about that

Can you guys commemnt on Cloakcoin?.. it is relatively cheap compared to the circulating supply, but I don´t know if it is, so to speak, a quality annonimous coin.

It may be cheap in terms of future gains but still not easy to buy at its current price for beginners who have a small budget. So probably better to be looking something like XVG which is cheap and has good potential.

That's absolutely true. Gambling, shady deals, black money laundering, etc will always exist and has existed since stone age(?). That might also be (pure speculations) why Monero jumped slightly more than two folds earlier on this year.

Something fishy smell about what is going with EOS:

Is dash really an anonymous coin? I know we have option to select for transaction but I saw many threads here in this forum and reddit claiming that dash isn't as private as it is. I don't know it's real or not but the dash is moreover a centralised Premined coin. So that fact may be true.
But I think Monero is the only true privacy coin because of its ring signature features.

According to Palm Beach Confidential... ZenCash (ZEN) is the anon coin to watch.

The Monero developers have been quite aggressive in trying out cryptographic technology. That has led to a rollercoaster ride so far. It is one of the best anonymous coins, but the question is how far can anonymous coins go?

I think as soon as Verge has implemented Wraith Protocol, it will take over and become the best anon coin. :)

Anonymity will be incorporated into a major decentralized ledger.

There will only be a few altcoins remaining at the end game which aggregate all the features of the others.

The winner will have massive adoption and all the rest will fall away.

We are still in the Dot.com speculative, wild west proliferation phase right now. When that busts, then we will have a shitcoin cleanout phase and only the strong altcoins with real adoption will survive.

Onion routing is not reliably anonymous. Last time I checked, Verge was based on onion routing. Study the threat vectors. In fact the only technology that seems to have the potential to be reliably anonymous is the family of technologies being developed for Zcash. I say that as an expert and as the author of the blog linked to from the OP of this thread.

The rest of the obfuscated copycoin shit is going to eventually fall away, although in the meantime their shills can fool some of the technologically ignorant speculators for the time being.

Monero is the most widely used anonymity technology blockchain and that is very unlikely to change in the near-term (Zcash’s technology is too slow and needs improved use case marketing & engineering). Anyone using Dash for anonymity is ignorant about anonymity technology.

My blog was not intended to say that Monero is going to collapse. It was to point out an inherent flaw as compared to Zcash’s technology and to talk about what that means for the future in terms of which sort of anonymity technology we are likely to have at the end game.

One thing I learned from his reaction and his banning and censorship, is that @fluffypony is not the sort of person I would ever work with or hire on my team. He should have embraced my efforts and also embraced my refutations about his mistakes in the analysis of ASIC resistant proof-of-work. Instead he bans me from Github and write lies on Twitter.

This sort of petty partisanship is why I think Monero is not a professional outfit and why I do not think they can succeed in a large-scale way.

To succeed at the large scale requires humility, objectivity, and openness.

Their feeling is that I sensationalized my blog in order to draw attention to my expertise. They probably feel I am doing marketing at their expense. Nevertheless I put a lot of effort into that blog, research, etc.. and yes I do want to be appropriately recognized for my efforts. And we all know that Monerotards enjoyed trolling my reputation and insulting me. The problem always was that Monero tried to claim they had the only and best open source superstar team. They opted to act snobbishly. They were trying to position themselves as being the only significantly talented dev group other than Core. They were aiming to be taken seriously as the challenger to Bitcoin. But the facts did not match the size of their enlarged egos. We should have instead opted for a win-win, instead of a win-lose paradigm/attitude:


What we needed was a way that many devs could be financed and work in the ecosystem. So then ICOs came along and basically relegated Monero’s former arrogance to the trashbin of history. But ICOs also have a problem in that they are likely illegal and blowback is probably coming.

What we really need is a legal way to finance many development groups. That is what I am working on! Unlike Monerotards, I know I can not be the best at everything. I have to help others be the best at what they do.

Anon coin is not marketable in the mainstream. Personally i think it should because there is absolutely nothing wrong in a person requiring anonymous transaction and other services. I believe it is my fundamental right to be anon when I want to and keep my business private. Having said all of these monero so far is the only anon coin!

Monero isn't. With all alts decreasing against BTC, monero was one of them to hold on.
Monero will soon again go back to it's 3 digit price in USD.

I've done some research among my cryptofan friends and I'd say Monero still has a lot of support. I wouldn't hurry to withdraw my confidence in this coin just yet.

Monero and the rest of the privacy centered coins are definitely in a very competitive field involved. Cryptography is no easy task and there are many who are winning in that domain and many who are losing. In my opinion, Monero and most of the privacy coins are indeed in trouble, just because they have to face Zcash. Zcash has been releasing some awesome stuff and came up with serious cryptographic innovations that the other projects have not even come close to create something similar or even competitive. The thing is, that many projects already, from financial corporations to Ethereum itself, have praised the approach of Zcash and are looking themselves to implement that solution in their own blockchains. That can tell you a lot about how successful they have been in developing privacy centered solutions. The team is obviously very bright and has done a great job in that field, hopefully we'll see more innovations coming in that sector, because privacy is a really fundamental part in order for the mainstream to adopt the blockchain.

I also think that Zcash and co are better than Monero in term of technology. But Monero is still very good. I don't think Monero will disappear like that. I think Monero is more user friendly than Zcash and other Z coins. Monero wallets are better. They have wallets on near all existing platform. Because of this, Monero will still stay strong i think. Zcash and other Z coins need to improve the user friendly aspect of their wallets if they want to attract more people.

A simple and dirty advertisement for Zcash, which is not save at all. DASH is the most secure and protected coin, while Monero is another good option. Zcash is crap. Be cautious while reading that kind of rubbish and always make your own research into that. I'm done

It would be nice to have also some arguments to support claims like this, for all the people who don't know the tecnicals and still want to understand these differences.

Why is Zcash not save at all ? Until now I though it provides very good privacy.

Monero provides more anonymity than Zcash. This project is much more reliable. It is impossible to track transactions if you use Monero. This is an excellent coin)

That's backwards. Zcash has its own issues, but so does Monero.