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I will fill in the details later today on the A4+ Scrypt miner that is coming.  Pre-order is available now.  I believe the delivery is Oct-Nov 2017.  I will share what we know so far shortly.  Please stand by.

Current lab machine:
A4+
520mhs
700-750w
Appears to be roughly same dimensions at existing A4.

https://youtu.be/W9z-haTm7nY (https://youtu.be/W9z-haTm7nY)

Current pre-order customers for the existing A4 will be given the option to upgrade the order to the A4+ if the customer is willing to pay the price difference between the A4 and A4+.

The price per mega hash is the same for the preorder.  Batches after the pre-order will likely see a price increase for the A4+ due to higher costs of the unit.  

I will detail this out more today as I have time just so everyone understands the cost difference.

Questions about the exchange rate on the web site for ordering has been brought up and hopefully that will be corrected to reflect a more current price in LTC and BTC.  I will keep you posted.

You can pre-order the A4 now and will get the option to upgrade.  The current MOQ for the A4 order is 3 units.  I am told that if we get enough interest in a group buy the MOQ will be 5 units.  I am asking for details now.

More to come later...

So if for the A4 the price per unit is 1050 USD for 280 Mh/s, it means that the price per megahash is 3.75 USD.

The price for the A4+ would then equal 520 * 3.75 USD = 1950 USD

I'm interesting in 1, maybe 2.

Ill take 3, when do they go up for preorder?

Interested in 4 units, thanks!

some questions around the pre-order

"Current pre-order customers for the existing A4 will be given the option to upgrade the order to the A4+ if the customer is willing to pay the price difference between the A4 and A4+."
so this means if we pre-order NOW, we will have the option to upgrade to A4+?
How about the last batch pre-order, the Sept-Oct batch, which is not delivered yet? Just want know the upgrade is an option for this batch? and any impact on shipping time...

Just emailed them, waiting for response.

Actually I think the $1050 is the 70% down amount with 30% still due when ready to ship.  So I think the price for the A4 is around $1500ish a unit in USD + shipping.

So that is closer to 5.56 per MH in USD I think if my math is right.

They have stated in the email that they think the MHS could be as much as 20% higher than the lab machine which already performs at 520mhs, but they don't know for sure yet what the final figure will be as the hardware is still being tweaked.

So at that price you would be looking at around $2888 per unit at the 520mhs rate... These are all rough numbers of course and will change with the final unit hash rate.

UPDATE: I updated the numbers above as my assumed price was wrong.  Starting price for a A4 is $1500.  Numbers recalculated based on that.

It is the same pre-order.  So you will be getting the option to upgrade to the A4+.

Well that would be a complicated way to present the total price per unit  :D

Yes, the 70% down is the current setup for the pre-order.  They said if you want to order today on the current A4 order page you can.  We just have to keep in mind that the pricing there reflects the A4 and not what you will pay for the A4+.  So the balance due will be substantially larger if you choose to go with the A4+.  So these won't be "cheap" units for sure. 

I am asking about the group buy details now.  Hopefully we can get a break as part of a group buy that might help a little.

I'm interested in 1 unit 2 tubes, depending on the price.

I'm interested. Depends on price and MOQ then.

Maybe I'm wrong but Innosilicon seems to be not the strongest competitor for Bitmain.
So far I know they had already a bad delivery history and still charging a high price compared with Bitmain.
My brain can not understand this ...

Bitmain L3+   vs    Innosilicon A4+
504MH/s                  ~520MH/s
800W                       ~750W
1870$                      ~ 2600$


Delivery time will be mostly the same or even later (Innosilicon bad delivery history).
Don't know why anyone should buy from Innosilicon even Bitmain was a bit too expensive for the last Batch.
I wanted to buy some but I thought Bitmain would sell the L3+ under 1500$ so I passed this time.

Am I missing something what makes the Innosilicon A4+ more interessting than Bitmains L3+?
If they are able to send their miner till mid/end of September it would be a advantage but I don't believe it.


"will we achive a huge Group Buy Discount :-\"


If Innosilicon want to get more attention they shall start to sell their equipment way cheaper and proof they can deliver itheir miners in time with the same performance they sold it.

1400$ for the new A4+ would be a statement against Bitmain and could bring Innosilicon back to the road.

I updated my numbers.  I found the price for the A4 is $1500.  So I adjusted my figures to reflect that.  It would be $5.56 per MH cost. 

At this point it does not appear that Inno is in any position to try and challenge Bitmain on pricing.  I did not get that impression at all from the communication I received.  As a matter of fact they are stating that after the pre-order is over most likely the price will be going up. 

This won't be a "price leader" miner from all indications so far.  And I am getting confirmation on the ship dates, but it was implied that it will be the same Oct-Nov ship timeframe.  Orders will be shipped based on when the order was received. 

So if you want to order 3 or more units today you can place your order on the web site now.  However note the exchange rates for LTC and BTC are WAY OFF and I have asked them about updating that.

I am still getting details on a group buy.  However in the past there wasn't a big discount offered to us for the group buy.  But we will see if what kind of incentive they may offer us.  If the A5 pricing is any indication even if you buy at large volumes like 100 the discount wasn't enough to be of significant help.

Got a link? I'm not seeing the A4+ listed.

Ok, here is the update from Innosilicon:

"We will upgrade your preordered A4 machines to A4 + or future upgrades and ship them in the order of payment. Even though the ultra-low power A4+ miners has higher cost per Mhash, and in the future the prices is likely to rise, for our lucky loyal preorder customers, the price per Mhash will remain the same. The remaining payment will depend on the final spec of the miner before Oct 7th. You will be notified for the remaining payment before delivery. For example, you preordered A4 280Mhs miner totally N dollars, as we upgraded to A4+ with 550Mhs, your total payment will be (550/280)*N dollars. Your deposit will count towards the total payment. For those A4 preorder customers who are willing to upgrade to A4+, the shipping will start in mid Oct and complete by the end of Nov. We are sorry that it is very difficult to accelerate the new product delivery any further. You do not have to contact us, we will contact you before shipment based on payment order."

aprox. 10 units depends on price

The A4+ isn't listed there yet.  They said place your pre-order using the current A4 page and you get the option to upgrade to the A4+. 

So if you want to order 3 or more units today you can do that right now on the current web order for the A4 preorder.  You will be notified about the upgrade option.

Like was mentioned the final cost will be priced in MHS.  So current MHS price appears to be $5.56 x <whatever the final hash rate will be>

They are stating the lab unit runs at 520mhs, but they are saying they believe the final units could be hashing as high as 550mhs.  But your final price will be reflected in whatever that number settles at. 

I am interested.

Man you weren't kidding about the exchange rates being way off.

$3150 USD deposit for 3 or 1.19 BTC (about $5700 in BTC)

 Assuming they FIX their badly outdated BTC/$ (and LTC/$) exchange ratio.

Yes, the rate they built into the web page is obviously static and done a while ago. So they need to fix that and get it at least somewhat close or the only real way to do this is to do a wire transfer to them.

 Innosilicon has a MUCH better record of reliability on their miners than the last 2 generations of Bitmain miners (S7, S9, L3, L3+, less so the T9) and the one time (first 2 A4 batches) that they DID have issues, they dug in and FIXED them.
 The last time Bitmain was even in the ballpark on reliability was the S5 - and they've NEVER been there on Scrypt gear.

 They also don't compete on price - which might be part of the reason they're still around when so many other folks (except Caanan which ALSO doesn't try to compete on price) have FOLDED once they went head-to-head with Bitmain.

 I'd anticipate the A4+ ending up in the $2600 range initially, and then going up some.

interested in 1 if it's possible to buy. Any idea where I can get more information on if this company is legit or not? they have like only 60 tweets and 2k followers?

innosilicon.com is their web site.  They have a Chinese site also.  Yes they are a legitimate company.  Many of us here have done business with them in the past.

The minimum quantity for an order is 3 at the moment for the A4 and A4+.  We are talking to them about a group buy so that may open options for those that don't want to buy 3 or more units.  We will get the details for everyone soon if it is possible to do a group buy purchase.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/c/c4/Kirk_you-must-be-new-here.png/revision/latest?cb=20130504072315

Innosilicon been around for many years and has produced many, many miners.

Innosilicon does not have a good track record about their Hash rate speed and delivery timings and Bitmain L3+ has up til now has a reliable speed and prompt delivery timings but the issue with bitmain is that their selling strategy sucks
They should improve it so that if anyone wants to order does not rely on luck.
It's just like finding a block on solo mining  ;D

That is somewhat true with the creation of the A4, they advertised hash rates before they had the thing produced or even in testing... but if you've reviewed the Youtube Video of the A4+ you can see it's already doing the "advertised" hash rate.

Now will it be stable? I would hope so since it looks like A4 that's been beefed up, I imagine it uses the same controller and updated software.

I don't think it's going to be an issue this time around like it was for those of us that had B1 and B2 A4's

May be but personally I will not order them until they have commercially develop them and are on sale because history repeats itself and reputation is built only once so for now I will stick to bitmain no matter how pathetic their ordering system is but with reliable products

I would be interested in 2 or 3.  But have to see more info from them 1st and a better idea what the final cost of the A4+ will be.

I own both, I'd go Innosilicon before I'd go Bitmain any day.

If you want to talk reputation, I wouldn't categorize Bitmains reputation higher than Innosilicons but I would call it more recognized.

I agree there is some risk being an early adopter of any new product, L3, A4, S7, S9....

As my English is weak can you please tell me the difference between higher and more recognise

 They only have a "bad record" relating to their initial postings about the anticipated specs on the A4 - and at this point they have enough experience with the chip AND A WORKING MINER that I'm willing to trust their current claims about the A4+.

 The A4 was also the ONLY miner they ever pre-announced before they even had chips in hand - they never pre-announced the A2 at all, and the A1 chips were mostly built into miners by other folks (like LKetc).

 L3+ on the other hand has a poor track record for reliability (though not quite as bad as the S9 early batches), and *IF YOU CAN GET THROUGH TO ORDER ANYTHING AT ALL* Bitmain has a pretty good track record for delivering miners that are paid for on time.


 BOTH companies need to do some serious work on improving their order process, though they aren't quite as much of a pain to deal with as Baikal.

Higher = Above, Greater Than, Superior

Recognized = Easy to identify

To Rephrase: I would place Innosilicon reputation higher than Bitmain. However, the Bitmain brand name is easier to identify when it comes to miners

I think reputation is your identity which others give and it always come when one delivers his commitment any way time will tell that this A4+ by innosilicon will deliver or not

if they are gona upgrade whats on the site with a pre order ,whats the point of the grp buy unless we can get a better
price? I was going to order 10 from the site becuase I thought it was a free upgrade, for $1900 i would still be in for 10

lowerr price id be in for 20

Exactly, There is no point to doing a group buy unless there are a lot of small orders that can't swing the 3 MOQ.  Also if a group buy can get a discount then it makes sense.

No free upgrade here from Inno.  It is priced per MHS.  So if you pre-order the A4 at $1500 270mhs, the A4+ at 520mhs - 550mhs will roughly double that price based on MHS.  So we are talking about $2891 - 3058 price range depending on the hash rate.

So I am not advocating a group buy unless there is some benefit.  Otherwise I would recommend everyone pool your orders if you don't want 3 units so that you can get the minimum order in. 

And Inno has already stated the price after this pre-order is going up.  So these will not be cheap during the pre-order and they will be less so after this pre-order phase is closed. 

I'd be keen to order if the preorder groupbuy is confirmed.

I would be in for one or two if the group buy is a go.

I am in for 1 in the group buy.

Will the A4+ be shipped worldwide (I'm in France to be specific) ? Is there anyone in EU has purchased a miner shipping from China before? I'd like to know how much I must pay for imported taxes per miner ?

I could be in for some.....will see how it develops.

In Germany you have to add 19% if the declaration is for computer goods.

Thanks for the reply  ;D

is there a chance that preorder for A4+, once available, will be ran out in matter of minutes like Antminer ? If so, a good strategy would be preorder A4 first when it is still avalable, then upgrade it to A4+ I guess.

Guys, so we should preorder A4 and it will automatically become a A4+ preorder if I understood?

Right?

I am committed to at least 2. I can buy more for better price. Is there any update on the price? Thank you in advance

What I was told via email is that if you place the order today for the A4 on their web site you will get the option to get the A4+.  So you may want to email them to get that in writing yourself.  But that means if you order today on the web site, you put down 70% of the $1500 per A4 unit via payment USD wire, BTC, LTC.  I have been told you will get an email from Inno stating the A4+ is available.  If you want to go with the A4+ you will have to pay the difference in the price.  

So the simple math would be:

A4 280mhs
280mhs / $1500 = $5.36 per MH

Minimum order is 3 units X 70% down payment in USD:
3 ea A4 miners is $4500
70% down is $3150

Assume worst scenario for performance from a A4+ is 520mhs:
520mhs x $5.36 per mega hash = $2787.20 per unit x 3 = $8361.60

Now subtract your deposit of $3150 to find your balance due when they are ready to ship:
$5211.60 due + shipping, customs, VAT etc

That assumes the miner is only at 520mhs.  We are being told at this time they believe the hash rate will be higher than that so the cost will be more than I have stated above.

So you will want to get this in writing that they will make sure to offer the upgrade for the A4+ to you if that is what you want.  The power efficiency is significant if the demo they have shown is true.  So this is a big jump over the efficiency of the A4 and would put it ahead of the L3+ and L21 from BW in the efficiency category.  

I hope this helps people understand the math better.  And keep in mind if the A4+ ships at 550 mhs you have to add that cost per megahash into your budget.

WARNING:  The LTC and BTC conversion rates on the Inno site are completely INSANE.  So if you want the best deal it is best to wire transfer the funds to them.  This has been mentioned to Inno and I have not gotten a reply back.  But I would not use LTC or BTC for these at those rates.  

Thanks @Longsnowsm , I have just sent them a mail asking to upgrade my order to A4+ , I have made the order on June and was expecting the delivery of the miners this month, but I think it is wise to wait one more month to get double the hashrate.

In my opinion if you are getting your miners this month go ahead with A4 and don't wait for A4+ because you will get these miners atleast 3 to 4 months from now so please calculate the opportunity cost of your profits which you can earn now with the current difficulty and the profits after 3 months with more higher difficulty. The decision is yours but if I were you I will grab any miner today rather wait for a higher hashrate miner

Thanks for your suggestion, but when I look at it in the long run - may be 6-8 to 10 months - if i keep the A4 it will hard to keep up with the increasing difficulty and I will have to upgrade my speed then, and Innosilicon mentions that the cost/hashrate will be higher in upcoming release. So, I think it is best to upgrade now even though I ll have to wait another month or month and half.

Correct, and there are also other coins that you can mine with a scrypt miner beside Litecoin. So is there anyone manage to pre order the A4 then request the upgrade to A4+ ?

Same question, if I order a4, I will get a4+ ?

We are being told that they will offer to let you upgrade to the A4+ if you are willing to pay the difference.  However you may want to contact them to get that in writing from them. 

I will let them know about this thread and see if they want to chime in on how this will work.  The email I have from them states that is how it will work, but I would rather you hear it from them.

I sent them a few emails no response either

1 thing i learn is inno put customers 1st yet bitmain put sales 1st... why do i say so? i basically order 1 d3 and 1 a5 and in my country vat and tax is 17% of the value of product... so i email both inno and bitmain... this is the differences... watch... hahahaha...
https://ibb.co/nDpR1v (https://ibb.co/nDpR1v) thanks inno for helping me save approximately 1700usd of tax and vat... (a5 value 9999usd)
https://ibb.co/bWrvuF (https://ibb.co/bWrvuF) bullshit bitmain batch 1 d3 was 2700usd later on it became down and down till 1450usd! same product differ value...let say i order d3 on sept batch and d3 on oct batch i paying differ amt of tax and vat for the same product... do custom really care or confiscated... they just charge u 17% on the invoice stated value amt... and obviously product real value is low if not how they profit by selling you at 1450usd for d3 late batch? just some bullshit from bitmain reply...

simple calculation

l3+// 1870+115psu+17%tax n vat(340)=2325usd for 504mh
a4+// 5.36x520mh=2787usd(no tax paid below $100 value)+85psu=2872usd for 520mh
bw L-21// 2500usd included psu but moq 100 unit!!!  ::)
it really save u alot in tax and vat u know, so overall the price is somewhere 500usd differs with 16mh more from a4+... of course it at your own risk! if something happen to your product jam in your country customs but i guess low percentage it will happen... basically i will still go with inno even it  500usd more but it really save me lots of time camping over bitmain site just to purchase L3+, f5-ing bitmain web when high traffic and in 30min boom! everything out of stock u need to hell wait for 3-5weeks for another batch to release... it really piss me off!

sorry for my bad english and im new in this forum...
me too interested in a4+ grp purchase maybe 2-3 set...

This shows that bitmain is an honest company and inno is a deceiving company and for that reason I really regard bitmain and feel sorry for innosilicon
This also shows that if innosilicon decieves the customs it can decieve anyone including us as customers

ummm... true but i just dont feel comfortable paid tax and vat for the company profit... for all miners of course we want to get most profit and less money spent... i dont feel that inno is deceiving company because they r in this industry long and may have bad delay or wat so ever but they r not scam for sure... and who knows the real value of the product is? as i say i dont feel comfortable paying tax over the company profit if u get what i mean here... maybe differ people differ thinking of this issue here... im posting just to let those people who are existing or going to purchase from inno to save abit of tax and vat money... out of good will... i guess maybe not for u khurram... no offends dude.. =))

Thanks for your reply
But I will never buy from inno due to various reasons such as
1) they advertise false hashrates for e.g. A4 to attract big preorders and now they are doing the same for A4+ they don't know the exact speed of their miner and yet they are asking for advance money on per megahash basis
2) they can't even update the BTC value on their website and anyone not paying attention to the conversion rates gets decieved
3) They can't even compete with the prices of miners see the price of A5 and D3 there is no comparison and I assure you that A5 and D3 will be delivered to the customers around the same time within couple of weeks so no head start for A5 customers and the ROI for A5 will be never

ya agree with that... haha... but im just piss off camping at bitmain site... i miss 2 batch of L3+ this month never will i get to purchase it...it always add to cart and then out of stock before i do my payment... was actually looking at bw L-21 but moq 100!!! so im still ended going with inno i guess... i guess a5 should at least take me 6month to get my 9999 usd back provided dash value will go up to 600 by next year apr after i safe keep mining dash for 6 months and sell it off at 600 at least if not i guess roi is never as u mention... hahaha...

Roi based on speculation and over 1 year for a miner is never in my opinion and I was referring in dash terms for ROI and that's the best method of ROI

And yes you are right Bitmain ordering system is pathetic and very frustrating they should change or some what modify their sales method
For BW  L21 you can look for a group buy here I think there are talk of a group buy

I'm not surprised you missed them. Retailers in my country (VietNam) preordered Bitmain's products at very large quantity, so they will be the first one who lay a hand on those miners.

Anyone received an answer from Innosilicon yet, in my country you can already preorder A4+ via retailers, they already preorder several hundreds A4+ directly from Innosilicon. 

Nope, I'm hoping for group buy with better price.

for your information, A4+ are preordered in my country for 65,000,000 VND - about $2900 (retail price) or 55,000,000 VND - about $2400 (if the actual hashrate is less than 520 Mhs).

Inno just replied with some more info.  They will be updating the web site today with a more clear explanation of the A4+ and the order process.

They know the LTC/BTC exchange rate is wrong.  They are working on a better order processing page at this time to correct this, but until that is complete your best option for the best price is to wire transfer USD.  They are currently working on fixing this, but there is no estimated time or date that will be fixed.

The estimated ship dates for the A4+ will be Nov-Dec time frame.  Current A4 preorders will be given the option to upgrade to the A4+ if they are willing to pay the price difference. 

So watch the Inno page for more updates.  I will pass along additional details if anything else comes up.

this may be out of topic, but what do you guys think about the announcement of ehsminer ?

Scam. Don't bother wasting your time on the ehsminer.

They've put info about A4+ on their website
http://www.innosilicon.com/html/news/19.html

It doesn't take much to update the exchange rate, I believe the fact they are not updating it in a timely manner is by design to make the most profit as well as slow sales in the form of crypto while simultaneously encouraging USD wire transfer. This is not a new issue for their site to have the crypto conversions be off one way or the other.

Either way with the difficulty spike, lengthy pre-order time, and overall Scrypt profits tanking, this is a large gamble right now on the purchase of any Scrypt Miner.

I'd be willing to buy a few right now if the exchange rate was accurate but it's a huge gamble with Bitmain potentially having 2-3 batches released before this miner ships.

SO if i understand this right you will be charged the diffidence in the going price once it's ready to ship, so you get fuck kind of any way and end up paying out the ass for the A4 + ? ..

or they will upgrade you to the A4 + at the A4 price you signed up for to start with, i hope you guys get that which they should do. but don't count on it there greedily like the rest ..

For example, you preordered A4 280Mhs miner totally N dollars, as we upgraded to A4+ with 550Mhs, your total payment will be (550/280)*N dollars. Your deposit will count towards the total payment.

the A4 should have been the A4 + to start with .I saw that coming and kind of hinted about it in another post .. the A4 was suppose to sell as a A4 + or at  A4 + speeds, to me that was meant to happen so they could make more and they knew bitmain was coming out with a L3 and L3 + by a comment they made in a post when they sold all the A4 stock cheap.

Yeah thats very true, they promised specs was actually higer than what the A4+ is now ( higer hash rate more wattage) , That being said its damn near impossible to get your hands on an L3+ preorder

so i might buy a few of these if they allowed a lower MQ , 3 miniumum is alot to ask for a company that always has issues meeting spec

So looking at the website, it says preorder 3 units with a deposit of 3150 if I do a wire transfer. How much would I owe after deposit? Is the 3150 70%? Sorry if this has already been addressed.

Yes.

The total 100% price for one A4 is 1500 USD.

The price for the A4+ will be the same per one Mh/s.
So if the A4+ ends up being a 550 Mh/s miner for example, the price for it will be (550/280) * 1500 USD --> 2946 USD

Or probably 2950 USD to make it an even number.

I want to participate to the group buy.

Hi, I've never participated in a group buy before. So how does the whole thing work? Obviously escrows will not factor in because the vendors need to be paid upfront. Or is there some other method that's regularly done? Also do the vendors ship the order seperately to seperate addresses? Or does it all come to you and then you reship it to the buyers? Are you charging any fee for the service and time you are putting into coordinating all this? If so, how much?

It is kinda tough to get fired up for a 3K unit that arrives end of November? Getting tough to justify equipment at this time...(even if they just let me get 1,3 or 5)

Just saying, not a slam,

I would like a group buy if that is still available. thanks.

Also interested in a group buy.

I just updated the title to this thread and removed the group buy from the subject.  I don't think we are going to get a group buy discount or any assistance on this.  I have mentioned it and asked about what a group buy would get us and I didn't get a reply to that.  So I think the price is what it is and we have to decide if that is what we want to spend.

They mentioned a group buy would be a MOQ of 5, but when I asked about a discount or any breaks for the group buy I got no reply.  I did reply back that MOQ without a group buy is 3 so I would hope we would see a break if we bought 5.  But no additional info. 

So at this point I am going to assume there will not be a group buy.  What I would suggest is that if your interested in buying one or two and need someone to go in with you to meet the MOQ then post your interest here and where you are located and see if maybe you can coordinate a purchase that way.  So you can group your purchase together, maybe pick a single POC address to ship them to and then pay the additional shipping to get it from that location to you.  Just some suggestions on how you might want to do it.

Please remember to use an escrow here on the forum if the person you are working with does not have any established trust here on the forum.  Established trust can be seen below the persons name there are numbers there and they should be green.  The more trust ratings the more likely your not going to have any issues getting your purchase done.  You may still want to use an escrow just to be safe. 

Thanks for trying! I went to do the preorder and with the exchange rates it seems like bank wire is the only option. I know they are a real company but to have a preorder be no refunds "buyer beware" and then only accept wire transfers that scares the crap out of me. Preordering something with an undisclosed price and not allowing for refunds seems a little over the top. Spend hours refreshing bitmains website or send 3 grand into the ether non refundable... Good times!

True that. :)

What price did you get for MOQ of 3? Did you receive any quotes and ETAs? Thank you so much for trying to get things running. Unfortunately we cant have a groubuy

Hey-a. My first post here.  :)

I placed a pre-order for 10 A4's just a week (give or take few days) before they announced the A4+. I personally feel pretty excited about the A4+ but this was not what I ordered. The price is going to be so much higher than I originally thought.. nevertheless, I'm sticking with the order (I mean, what choice do I have?)

My experience doing business with Innosilicon is somewhat mixed. They do answer to mails, but with a delay and if you happen to ask more than one question, they don't bother to answer the rest.
After making the payment (naturally with USD, the exchange rates for both LTC & BTC are outrageous), I had to wait 2 weeks before I got a confirmation that the payment has been accepted (was expecting this to take the usual 5 business days). This period was very distressing.

One thing I'd really like to know; are they willing to make the shipment with lowered value (due to ridiculous import taxes)?

Anyone else in this same situation right now? Are you planning on taking the upgrade option (and yeah, funny that they call it an option. They kinda left me feeling that there is no option, they WILL upgrade your order anyway, though I might be totally wrong here)?

Also, about the shipping costs. They use DHL, but does anyone have any idea how costly that is going to be? In my case, the shipment is coming to Europe.


-kb8679-

EDIT: Just to be clear, I'm not considering the old A4's anymore at all. If the price goes too high, I hope I can at least reduce the number of units.

someone has stated above that Inno can "fake" the real price of the miner, on your request, so that you pay less on import taxes, but the customs may confiscate your miners if they find out their real value.
If you cant reduce the number of purchased units, you can always resell it I think.

Do we pay import and/or sales tax here in the US like they suffer in EU if we buy units from there? If we do, does anyone know what the rate is, say per $1k?

Thanks. IMO that's great news regarding the shipment value.

And yeah, reselling one or two is probably the way to go if it comes to that.


-kb8679-

I just had to check this out. Would've been weird and awesome if you didn't have to carry any taxes importing stuff but it appears you do. There seems to be a 2500$ limit, anything under would be free, anything over will cost you. (That 2500$ is over 10x more than what we have here). But it also isn't quite as simple; check out:

https://importdojo.com/us-import-duties-taxes-how-much-and-when-do-i-have-to-pay-for-import-tax/ (https://importdojo.com/us-import-duties-taxes-how-much-and-when-do-i-have-to-pay-for-import-tax/)

That appears to be quite good source of information, it also has a link to a calculator. Hope it helps.

-kb8679-

Thanks for that link

Thanks much appreciated

And naturally there is no item as computer in the whole document(unless they want to classify it as a scale). I emailed the US ITC for clarification. I suspect however that someone must have already brought units in from China into the US so they should know....DHL might just want to get creative, but it would be interesting to be able to answer the question definatively

Ok I just got email confirmation that there are NO import duties for computers into the USA!!!      :D

was told you have a few s3's, tell me if you are willing to sell, thx.

Oh, so unfair. :D
But good for you, if so. :)

However; I have zero import duties as well for computing hardware here - it still doesn't mean that I don't need to carry taxes for the imported goods - at least here they are two separate things.

Anyone got any news from Innosilicon? I've just approached them with rather angry email. This is not how a serious business should be run at all. Thanks to their extremely slow "customer service" it makes me feel that they don't bother to answer emails. Even to customers who have somewhat significant money already in. Makes this whole thing very shady...

they are too busy serving their local mining farms who poured in millions before average miners like us. they'll take us seriously only when they run out of customers locally.

Oh ffs.  >:(

I'm quite lucky to have a Chinese friend, located in shenzhen area. He is trying to contact Innosilicon in behalf of me via QQ or something (very weird side note, they have no listed phone numbers). I hope I'll get some answers through that route, if they happen to have better responsiveness to a fellow Chinese... let's see. I'll naturally post any information I get here.

Great, but having in mind how much they priced their A5 dash miner... I'm not sure A4+ would be a viable option for scrypt these day.

Yeah pricing of A5 was (and is) absurd... with the (550/280)*n -formula the price for a single A4+ unit would be fine with me - IF they can deliver in the promised timetable (that is mid-nov - mid-dec). Let's see.

They were supposed to release final details Oct 7th.   My preorder from 3.5 months ago that was paid has not had a single word sent to me about it's availability.  It was supposed to be end of September was the closing period of my preorder.   I would not hold my breath they are on time or forth coming with information.

Not good. :/

I wouldnt buy anything anymore from such company.

Exactly in the same boat as you. You can be sure I won't ever give my money to them. Can they refund us our preorder if we decide to not pay double for the A4+ ?

You already poured in some money for the pre-order, right?

As per their terms & conditions, refunds seem near impossible. Have you approached them with request of refund yet?



I just received a message back from Innosilicon (I think the use of a Chinese contact in between helped) but they naturally didn't tell anything useful. Just that "Final specs will come soon." and some reassurance on how important customers "the rest of us" are.

I just got an email with all the order information blank.  Did anybody else receive a preorder email?

Yes . and its blank too

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Innosilicon LTC miner pre-order customer,

 

We are grateful for your continuous support and trust of Innosilicon. We are devoted to creating the best miner products that provide wonderful user experience with their superb performance.

 

To maximize your benefits, and adapt to the difficulty of LTC mining, Innosilicon has updated A4 into introduce the next generation inspiring LTC miner, A4+, in the pursuit of the higher hash rate and EER (energy efficient ratio). Its hash rate and EER are leading in the industry with the typical hash rate of 620MHs and power consumption lower than 750W. For more details and video of A4+ miner, please refer to our website: http://www.innosilicon.com/html/a4+-miner/index.html

 

In consideration of your pre-order, we now offer a special discount for your support and understanding:

1)         You can obtain the LTC miner with highest hash rate in the market with only a total of 3200USD per unit;

2)         You can enjoy the priority delivery, which means your shipment takes the lead;

As known to all, when the hash rate is rising, obtaining the miner in advance means gaining your profits in advance.

 

We can understand your desire to get your miner immediately, and we have been sparing no efforts to realize it.

 

In order to receive the latest A4+ LTC miner as soon as possible, please complete the payment immediately.

 

To ensure the efficiency and accuracy of the shipment and to avoid unnecessary delay, please check and confirm your delivery address:

Order ID:

Customer Name:

Company:

Country:

State/Province:

City:

Street and House NO.:

Zip Code:

Phone Number:

Power Supply Voltage, (110V or 220V):        

 

We offer the official standard power supply (110V or 220V), it is only 120USD.

 

Please inform us about the quantity of the miner and PSU you wish to reserve and make the payment in a timely fashion. The miners and PSU will be delivered to the confirmed address faster, thus increasing the operation time of your equipment.

 

Finally, please reply to this email if you have any questions.

Looking forward to your reply and have a good day!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And we ordered on 7 September 8 units and payed 9072$ as 70% deposit. We are confused now because the price is different now from offered price.


https://i.imgur.com/b6j1aap.png

At last something is apparently happening. I'm in a situation where I got the calculated sum of the final payment, filled in the delivery details and am currently just waiting for the final invoice (yeah I know they're probably very busy at the moment but jeez they are slow to respond to their customers...).

Has anyone actually received their miners yet? Or maybe someone has them on the way at the moment?

INNOSILICON A4 Miner Order ,,You have to be careful with INNOSILICON.  they not to respond to emails after payment. I ordered 5 pieces A4 which should be sent this month and nothing.
Is there someone who did not get the order and lost money ?
For me it looks like a scam

I got an email reply and it seems that they are letting me use my preorder payment one one A4+ miner.  It's not certain because anything can happen between now and delivery. 

I gotta admit that this is pretty nice of them.  I have been reading about how buyers of the A5 had to pay full price on the customs and wondered how the hell am I going to actually make any money with these things?  The customs VAT seems to be about 20% of declared value to the USA. 

I also realize that this is a natural part of capitalism - people will extract as much as possible, as much as they can get away with.  When there's some guy in a back room figuring out that they can get an extra 30% and still have buyers clamoring for their miners then - well - forgidaboutit when it comes to magical profits. 

PS My main rigs are still 1060's.  Mining has taught me to be a tightwad.  "Ah, they work and they are paid for"

This was discussed earlier in this thread, but I can also confirm now that they do indeed fabricate another invoice and ship the goods with a value you decide. Very nice indeed.

About the A5 customers, is there anyone here? The hefty 10k USD price tag along with the current profitability with them seems like an extremely awful deal (never ever reaching ROI)...

go to twitter and make stress there and so that everyone is able to see it.. than you will see how fast thy can move.

I'm interesting in 1, thanks!

I got a reply today with the final invoice for my miners, and a promise to ship within 2 days of payment confirmation. Shipping to Canada. GL to the rest of you.

A5 preorder customer here. Ordered in first batch. Original ship date was supposed to be October 10-20. It's now November 28th and I've not received a shipping notice or tracking number yet. Supposedly, I'm getting a free A4+ out of this delay, but I honestly have no idea whether I'm going to get anything at all anymore. I'm also hearing the miners that some people are getting are riddled with issues, like passwords changing on their own.

My advice, don't trust this company with your money. Let it die. You think you're sticking it to Bitmain by going with a competitor? These guys are just out to rob you.

Alles gut. I received my miners today. The extremely stressful waiting period is finally over. :)

Yeah,  so stressful I probably wouldn't ever buy again or recommend them, no matter how well the thing works. Won't mean anything to them if they are running at 100% capacity though.

Yeah, I'd like to agree but the damn things work just as promised... I'm already planning (/dreaming) on getting some more, even though it's a real pain...
You got yours as well? Any issues with customs? My came through without anyone even checking (so yeah, saved quite a bit there too).


https://i.imgur.com/ywKhjcC.jpg

When did you place your order with innosilicon?
We are still waiting for our order from early july.

interested in seeing some pics of the A4+ that is received when those who ordered receive it.

Also may be interested if you want to sell it :D

It's been a week since anyone has posted anything here...did more people receive their units? Rocketdata? How are they performing?

Their website currently states you can preorder for December 18 to 28 batch

After mess with A5's Innosilicon is not to much popular ;)

batch time still this year...


when did you pre odered and when you get your miner? or still waiting?

I've been running my for more than a week now. I haven't had the need to do any manual maintenance during this time (which is extremely good since they are located ~1h car drive away from my home...). I am going there today however to do some tweaking to the cabinet and installing a IP cam. Someone asked for some photos of the units, I'm gonna take some today.

About the performance;

When you're mining just a single coin (with fixed difficulty rate of 128000) they deliver almost exacly the promised hashrates. And they don't require any sort of maintenance. Haven't had to manually reboot (manually = remotely via web interface) or anything, they just work, day after day.

Then there are the multicoin pools. Apparently these units don't like that or the variable difficulty that much. They do deliver great hashrates but sometimes some of the asic cluster go to "Dead" status which is a problem that apparently can only be resolved by manually rebooting the machine (not sure though). VERY annoying. And the provided documentation is a joke. It gets you started but that's it. I'd love to see some explanation for the status page on web interface (fe. what is "HW", I know it's some sort of error indicator but ...).

Also about the appearance; I looked up some pictures of L3+ and for a bit of my surprise, ít looks almost 100% identical to the A4+. Also the web interface is almost 1:1 match.  :o

EDIT: A close up of one unit (they are secured in place, it's nearly impossible to take picture of the whole tube due to how they are installed): https://i.imgur.com/HXPwHIr.jpg

this is what I was afraid to hear, I purchased my A4's and spent almost 5 months dealing with issues from them before Inno fixed. I was looking at ordering an a4+ today but I guess I'm going to wait longer.

It's a shame it takes them so long to get the bugs worked out, once they are worked out, they are great units.

We are still waiting to receive our A4+, they have been shipping for 2 weeks, at least that's what innosilicon says.

Mine was delivered to someone in Brussels.  Marianne is probably a very lovely person but I don't know of her. 

When I informed innosilicon about the tracking number seemed to be either the wrong one or a mistaken address, the reply was that I "quickly inform" them if something is going wrong with the shipment. 

I immediately sent them another email "quickly informing" them that my package was not in the United States but being sent to Belgium. 

Jeez. 

Hi, I am planning on getting the Innosilicon A4+. I was thinking of using a USB Dongle in the router to connect to the miner. I have a 3 GB plan. Would that much be enough for the entire month? Does it require more data than that?

mining usually does not take much bandwidth, but how many miners are you planning to run?

Also, buying from Innosilicon is a very long process... Don't trust what they tell you about delivery dates...They will always delay your delivery without any reason... If you are looking for scrypt miner, there is Bitmain L3+

Actually I am planning to start with 1 Miner only, and then increase to 2 once i receive 50% of my investment back. So a 3GB data bundle should be good for the month yeah?

I actually bought it at a premium from China, so should be receiving mine before 26th December 2017.

I have tried a 3G connection via usb dongle connected to a router.

The connection was not stable enough, it cut off from time to time.

I don't recommend using that as a internet connection for mining hardware.

How do you guys buy those units from http://www.innosilicon.com since they require buying 10 units at once?

Holy shit.  :o
Apparently things can go VERY wrong with these units.

So yeah, one of my miners became almost completely dead. Web interface responded but never updated, nor did the miner actually ever started.
My issue was corrupted .pyc-files inside the control box. So basically none of the numerous python scripts worked and it appears that the whole thing is run by python... along with busybox, ccminer and some web server.... Great!
This will cause the "Error: ValueError: Bad marshal data" -messages while running the .py -scripts.

Well luckily I did come up with workaround but jeez. This will also help with people who have forgotten/lost/whatever their passwords for the boxes.

I'd imagine this works the same with A5 with similar problem.

For the corrupted .pyc files (web interface responses but never gives out any data & no mining happens):

1) telnet to miner IP at port 8100
2) login: root
3) password: innot1t2
4) rm -rf /lib/python3.4/__pycache__/*.pyc
5) reboot

If you need to adjust your super secure password (works the same as A5); login like before but head to /home/www/conf and edit the 'password' file with 'vi'. Vi can be a pain to use for the first time but basically since it's just one line you need to edit... press 'i' and edit in the password you want (default being 12345678). Press esc. Type ':wq!' and hit enter...

Hope this saves someones day. My evening was ruined since I initally thought that the miner is actually dead...


PS.
No need to worry deleting the .pyc files, they are automatically recompiled back in place once you reboot and the various scripts are automatically run.

I have my rig running behind 4G/LTE connection. I have very good connection quality at the site and no real option for wired connection (sth like xDSL). The router is ZyXEL LTE3301 with latest firmware. I have a raspbi with relay card just probing the connection and if a connection loss is found, it will hard boot the router. After 2 weeks of non-stop running the raspbi-router-reboot-solution hasn't had to kick in once. So, I'd deem the 4G/LTE a viable option if you have reliable-enough router (and you have something like my rasbpi-router-reboot-thingie to back things up) & of course decent connection quality.

Connection speed has never been an issue (I'm getting around 20Mbps down AND up with relatively low latencies). I'm also routing IP camera feed through the same connection without problems.

this sounds similar to issues I was having when I got my A4 -- eventually this issue was fixed with a software update. Thanks for the Tip on this one. Hopefully it will be worked out when I finally decide to purchase an A4+

I have reported all my found issues to "miner_support@innosilicon.com.cn" and I suggest everyone with Innosilicon stuff do the same. No matter how small the issue may seem.

Report them all...


The "If you lose your PW we are gonna charge you for that." aka "If something goes wrong, you have no access to the device you actually own" was quite enough to not feel bad to reveal (already Googleable) root password and the telnet (srsly?) port. :)

Aw shit. Innosilicon has changed the password in their latest FW update (build date Thu Dec 21 17:56:17 CST 2017).

I have asked for the new one but I'm afraid I can't share it here anymore. Ask Inno for the PW if required. If they don't provide it, I'm going to brute-force the new one (and hell yeah, that one will be shared).


EDIT: While they did do the assshole-trick and change the password, the new FW seems to work WAY better than previous ones. I can actually now use multicoin-pools without miners reporting "HW" errors constantly. I'll update this after a day or so but it seems like some of the more annoying bugs really were fixed.

If anyone made some bulk order and is willing to sell couple to me using a escrow like bitrated let me know.

That sounds really good. I don't have much of technical know how, is it possible, via DM, you could help me out a bit! As in approximately the cost, exactly what would be the steps! I would like to thank you in advance, and would really appreciate if you can help me out with this!

Sure, I'm actually thinking of writing a manual on how to build such a thing since I believe it could be used for a loots of different purposes. Nearly all routers require the reboot at some point.. I think there are other solutions too but I'l DM you about the project to get you started.

Has anyone had issues with the ASIC cards just dropping out after bootup? i got my first batch of these and literally half of them are acting up. i tried latest firmware with no fix. the odd thing is on 4 of them its always the 4th card. on 1 other though its 3rd and 4th card. Any ideas? i havnt overclocked or anything.

someone get the miners? and when you ordered?

still wating...orderd early this month for 18-28th batch this month :D

You mean that 4th asic chain reports "Dead" after a while?
Does it drop down to 0MH/s ? - In which case I'd check through all the connections between the control box and the asic clusters.

I haven't read or experienced such issues aside from the problems being caused by some pool configs. And I haven't had those for a while either (since the latest FW update).

it doesnt report at all. i have 14 of them, 9 of the 14 powered on and 5 have issues

only 2 of the 4 good ones have a hashrate over 600, the others are high 500's

2 of them cards 2 and 4 are out
1 card 4 out
1 card 3 out
1 does nothing it wont mine even though green lights on cards are on.



to answer this question i have a friend in China he went to local market and found these machines and shipped to me.

Innosilicon is a fucking joke of a company!
Zero communication with customers.
Only want money then nothing.
After full payment you can only PRAY that they will ship the miners AT ALL.

Thank you so much. Finally it started mining

True

still no tracking no.

They told me two days ago they would have a tracking number from DHL. Apparently the miners are stuck in Hong Kong waiting for DHL to "deal with"
Anyone have a similar situation?

I have asked them and I'm still waiting for the DHL tracking number.

Actually I don't have a clue if they really did ship those before or at December 28 as they originally advertised for the batch I bought.

yes they told me this week, that my miners are in HK and arrangement with DHL now.

and than they dont answer...

Ours are out for delivery today

What batch are they from ? So confusing to see people from past Sept saying they haven't received miners then people from later batches receiving.

i get my miners the days...ordered early december for 20~28th dec batch :)

nice

Very happy to hear!!! My only other question would be what communication did you have after submitting payment and payment confirmation via their website?


-edit
Maybe I'm confused on all fronts :)

We ordered ours in September was promised delivery end of Nov was told multiple times they would ship “within a week” etc and finally received today. Their communication is terrible. They over promise under deliver.

An yet to determine A4 stability. They did write off the import tax though which saved us a ton of money.

I got my miner last week and mining since then. For first few days everything was going good. All of a sudden the 4th chain went down. After unplugging the cables and re-plugged with reboot, the 4th chain(asc3) showed up mining. Again after 2 day of mining, the 4th went down. Does any one got solutions for this issue ? Is it an issue from pool config ?

What was you order date for your miners?

Have you updated the firmware ?

They have released few versions recently. I do know people are having trouble with the latest due to the root passwords being changed. Maybe this thread can help

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2549898

I bought this only on December from Innosilicon. Received it on December 13th. I did the firmware update few days ago after getting the email from innosilicon regarding the new firmware. Thanks for your suggestion.

It's amazing to see people buying in December from Inno and have received miners already. So many report from all the way back to July of people not receiving shipments yet. I don't know what the think anymore. Sucks they don't communicate via my emails after sending payment.

I ordered in Chinese region. It is local delivery. Got it within 2 weeks. The case is different for international shipments.

What kind of temps do these run at?

My highest one reports 88C in one miner and in just one ASIC chain. Otherwise I've had around 60-66C avg temps all around. And I've heavily overclocked. ;)
They are located in dry cold storage so ambient temperatures are low too (-6C atm), but this hasn't had any actual effect (-6C seems to be pretty much the same as +10C for them)...