Bitcoin Forum

EDIT: the bounty is now up to 81+ BTC

EDIT: "CIYAM Open" has offered to allow us to use their system for free, for the purpose of dividing up the tasks, so I suggest we take them up on that offer. I have posted the project there. Please click here and sign up. (http://ciyam.org/open/?cmd=view&data=20130606055250338000&ident=M100V137&chksum=a2a9d6d5)

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Rassah has donated 18 BTC towards this bounty, and Monetas can pledge an additional 18 BTC as well.
So that's a total of 36 BTC so far, not counting any other contributions.

Anyone else wishing to contribute to this bounty, please send the funds to the OT donation address: 1NtTPVVjDsUfDWybS4BwvHpG2pdS9RnYyQ

This application will actually be rather easy to write, as I can provide the code for all the OT functions, and I will be available to support you and answer all your questions. If any changes are necessary inside OT itself, I will code them for you.

If you are interested in collecting this bounty, please contact me at: chris@monetas.net

REQUIREMENTS:

1. Open Source license.

2. The application itself will be a Systray Menu written in QT / C++.

3. When you click on the Systray Icon, it should display this menu:

MENU:
------------------
Overview...   (Pops up a list of incoming/outgoing transactions and receipts.)
    NOTE: I will provide you the code that generates this data -- you just display it in the GUI.
------------------
Default Nym:    Trader Bob   ( Click: goes to a list of Nyms where you can add / edit / delete )
Default Server:  Digitalis      ( Click: goes to a list of Servers where you can add / edit / delete )
------------------------------------------------
gold account:      $66,422   (Default account, on server.)
gold cash purse:   $40,000   (Cash in local wallet.)
    Note: Clicking on the account should pop up a modal dialog for the account.
    Note: Clicking on the purse should pop up a modal dialog for the purse.
------------------
Withdraw -->   (as Cash or Voucher.)
Deposit  ->   Paste Cash or Cheque. (Deposit into account or local purse.)
------------------
Send Funds-->   Cash, cheque, voucher, or transfer.
Request Payment -->   Send an invoice or a payment plan proposal.
------------------
Advanced --->
   Agreements   (smart contracts)
   Markets        (offers, trades)
   Settings        (Settings tab)
------------------------------------------------
Note: In all cases above, I will provide you the code you'll need for the OT portion of any functionality needed above. I will make this super easy for you.


4. The application will also need to provide an HTTP interface so that external applications can send messages to it.
    For example, I might have a Firefox plugin that sends a "Withdraw Cash" message to OT through the HTTP interface.
    All you have to do when that happens is trigger the same "Withdraw Cash" function from the menu, as if the user had clicked on it.
    (FYI, we're going to model the OpenTransact HTTP interface (http://www.opentransact.org/) as closely as possible, although we'll adapt it to OT as necessary.)

5. The application will also need to be able to talk to Bitcoin through Bitcoin's HTTP interface. (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/API_reference_(JSON-RPC))
    Not much is required here... basically we just want to be able to verify that bitcoins were received,
    and we also want to be able to send a multi-sig transaction. Here's an example of this. (https://people.xiph.org/~greg/escrowexample.txt)
    We also want to be able to do this with colored coins, but I won't hold you to it unless the colored coin guys can provide sample code.

6. The application will also need to be able to talk to Bitmessage through Bitmessage's HTTP interface.
    Basically we just want to be able to send/receive broadcasts, so that we can wire funds between OT servers,
    and have cross-server discovery for trading. The protocol is described here. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=212490.0)
    Also, here is sample code for using Bitmessage. (https://github.com/Bitmessage/PyBitmessage/blob/master/src/api_client.py) Easy, right?
    We will want to use an abstraction layer here.

As I said, I will be available to support you on your development, and will provide pre-written code that does the OT heavy lifting for you.

Is it possible to claim the bounty as reserved/taken while someone works on it? I'm positive I can accomplish this task if I have no stress of completing the job and in the context of possibly not receiving a reward. :D

I would be happy to host this (and personally help manage it) on CIYAM Open free of charge (http://ciyam.org/open).

Note that CIYAM Open is a system that only locks in *one* dev for an agreed period of time to deliver (and accepted delivery would be determined by a merged git pull request).

If desired this could be divided up into several smaller tasks each of which would be a potion of the *overall* bounty (rather than having the whole thing be a "all or nothing" bounty).

I don't mind dividing it up if people want to do it that way. For example, one guy does the Bitmessage integration, another guy does the Bitcoin integration, etc. We can even parcel out things like the Chrome plugin, Skype plugin, Firefox plugin, etc.

I've got to hit the sack, I'll check back tomorrow.

I definably claim the sys tray menu GUI in Qt/C++ and the HTTP and Bitcoin Communications, if someone wants to snag OT that would sound like fun! I get started on this  tomorrow.

Also actual API spec for bitmessage can be found here

https://bitmessage.org/wiki/API_Reference (https://bitmessage.org/wiki/API_Reference)

and dev just added these for just this kind of use

Wait, what is this, a method of P2P currency exchange?

I understand that Bitmessage will be used for service discovery between different OT servers but how these servers will transact between themselves? For instance, the universal currency between Ripple gateways is the XRP. What will be the settlement currency between OT federated servers?

See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=212490.0

14 BTC donated! That should get you up to 50 btc.  Kick ass guys.

Glad to see the wheels are starting to turn with Bitmessage and OT. I'd donate to the bounty if I had coin to spare!

I am interested in working on this if we can divide up the bounty in advance.   It seems like there are a lot of parts here, so if we can organize who is doing what and for what bounty then I can help take this on.

At the very least I can provide the OS X port / testing / support.   

The bounty should be on dividing the project up into feasible pieces, each of which is assigned a percent of the existing bounty.  The bounty for the break up can be quite small, and the requirements to be met can be FT agreeing that the break up makes sense.

Or perhaps breaking the project up in a reasonable way is simple enough that someone will do it for free.  Anyone working on that?

I recommend that a separate bounty be offered (or broken off from the existing one) to write human unit tests - a description of a testing plan for someone to follow with what is purported to be the final result.  The spec that FT wrote seems marginal to me, but maybe I'm just paranoid :-).

Just sent 0.5... and watching this.

I just sent .5 BTC.  Let me know if you like to start a project for this on CoinFunder.  I will waive all fees.

Watching

Okay I won't claim it all I'll just do the clicks and menus and gui sys tray stuff and then we'll see what happens. I'm almost positive i understand the purpose of this app but anywho i'll release what i have so far tonight and the original poster can tell me what i dont/do understand this is a fun project already :D


EDIT/UPDATE: I'm really hoping this was targeted at windows because I'm developing in windows with QT already when i started, ( normally do linux by habit )

Preview: System tray
Its the Icon that says OT (Notes also I never code with GUI forms, i only write GUI stuff with code for maximum flexibility, in case any other contributors were wondering what kind of game they need to step up to when contributing, I'd also be willing to help convert publicly those who do code along side QT Gui Forms)
http://s10.postimg.org/ilpt73r2x/systray.png

2 BTC from me! That's on top of the 20 BTC bounty I'm offering for a simple OT web interface bounty.  :D

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=223914.0

I can see how a QT/C++ app can provide the best of both worlds and allow websites to exist as well, the desktop app will allow a unified method of communicating these messages/transactions to each other all while allowing anyone or any website or desktop app to communicate to the OT desktop app with out the need for every service to have another service just to connect two services. Bitbank should exist along side OT desktop app, and the browser plugins to connect it all

I contacted him via PM.  Didn't intend to appear spammy.

I'm interested to see how this project will be divided... in terms of separate tasks, and the bounty itself. I think that's a great idea because multiple developers working on it means it gets done faster.

I sent some BTC and will send more in the future (OT donation address saved in my address book  ;D)

Ok. Apologies for jumping the gun there ... we all want the same thing, I think.

That would be a great idea if he already has github. i already have some code to publish

See the protocols described in the pastebins linked from this first post:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=212490.0

OT servers will not have their own "settlement currency." Using the protocols it's already possible to wire funds between servers and also, BTW itself can serve as a "universal glue." (I don't think having our own "OT currency" is the right solution.)

There have been several people popping up to do this project, and I think we can divide the tasks between them.

I have created a new github repository for the project. (https://github.com/Open-Transactions/Moneychanger)

The bounty is now up to 63.19 BTC.

Tasks.  (Since several people have volunteered, I'd like you to specify tasks you are going to own.)

--- Who wants to do the HTTP interface?

--- Who wants to do the Bitcoin (multisig) integration?

--- Who wants to do the colored coin stuff?

--- Who wants to do the Bitmessage integration?

--- Who wants to do the systray GUI (I will provide the necessary OT calls.)

I claim systray GUI since I already have code going/posted up.
and will claim HTTP interface.

I can do it all but i don't want to be greedy anyone else can claim the rest I look forward to working with the others that join :)

Are Silver Grams from Server A and Silver Grams from Server B issued by different Issuers? If so then they'll be totally different assets. If Bob is willing to exchange Asset B against Asset A then he has to maintain Asset B account on Server A? Is that correct?

--- In the protocol, I am assuming it's the same asset type on both servers (same issuer.) You would need the same asset type ID in order for the discovery to work over Bitmessage the way I've described.

--- But I guess you could do it either way. A slightly modified version of the protocol would be used in the case where they are different issuers.

--- I'd think if we're talking about two different asset types, then Alice would simply convert the asset type first (on the market) and then perform the wire. (Of course a smart wallet could automate this for her.)


--- This is correct.

--- The servers could also maintain accounts with each other.

--- You could also convert the asset to BTC on the market, and then move it to any server, and then convert it back.

If it is the same asset type ID I'm not sure why would Alice want to transfer it from Server A to Server B for a fee. Who is the beneficiary of that transfer on Server B?

Alice.

I am interested in BitMessage integration.

And if there is a 'market' GUI potentially that too.

I understand that OT is open source like Ripple, but is it also centralized like Ripple as well? What makes OT any different than Ripple? Bitmessage is a decentralized messaging system that could relay Ripple gateways as well as OT servers could it not?

Currently Ripple is *not* open source (and it needs XRP which OT does not).

Ah, I see they have a GitHub, but no source files. Suspicious Scam.

I am a little surprised that Namecoin isn't in the mix here.

All i know is that I claimed the systray gui part, and the HTTP interface so that it can accept commands. I hear you bitmessage is still open and I've heard that you know how to get it integrated, you should message me and we will work together, if you claim the bitmessage part :)



Me an felllowtravler were discussing diff qt versions last night, today I will post what i have so far to the githubpage, or you can check out my github page to see that i forked the project already and posted up some things https://github.com/Xenland/Moneychanger

Lets just say I have dual use for BitMessage integration and I will leave the GUI to you.  The annoying thing about bitmessage is that it depends upon PyQt is and is a pain to deploy.   It would be nice if there were a Qt GUI for bitmessage that integrated at the protocol level... but I suspect that would require a bigger bounty and is outside the scope of this.

I know that OT uses 'mailboxes' for unsigned transactions and even invoices / messages etc.  Is the idea to replace the mailbox infrastructure with BitMessage?

Or would all messages be directed to a specific OT server identified by a BM address and thus simply replace the HTTP protocol for communicating with an OT server?

I don't suppose the creator can open up a HTTP/JSON API so we can interface into it with out creating a QT/C++ version of bitmessage? I'm not sure which one would be easier/secure

Probably read the OP of the original idea will bring you up to speed. BM is just for P2P price discovery, not settlement, escrow or clearing functions.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=212490.msg2227866#msg2227866 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=212490.msg2227866#msg2227866)

It does have a json-api, but you still need to deploy the app.  I suppose if you used it without the GUI it might be easier to deploy.

Absolutely not. OT's inboxes (and other boxes) are integral to the internal workings of OT. (And everything in them is signed.)

Bitmessage is an additional layer to be used for discovery, specifically for server-to-server wiring and cross-server exchange. It will be used with OT, inside this GUI (this thread), which will integrate with both of them.


Absolutely not. Bitmessage will not change anything inside OT itself. Rather, this "holy grail" application will use both OT and Bitmessage.

Also, FYI, the Bitmessage communications will not be between OT servers, but P2P between OT users.

Hello everyone :)

I wasn't able to post earlier because of the must-be-5-hours-online-rule but I claimed Bitmessage or/xor Bitcoin multisig via email.
bytemaster aparently has some interest in the bitmessage part so if it's alright with everyone I'll do the multisig integration?..

My GitHub nick is tuttleorbuttle but there's nothing to see yet apart from a few tests that show that I'm new to Git :p

I think the easiest way for us to divide up all the tasks is to use a system designed for that purpose.

"CIYAM Open" has offered to allow us to use their system for free, for the purpose of dividing up the tasks, so I suggest we take them up on that offer.

I have posted the project there. Please click here and sign up. (http://ciyam.org/open/?cmd=view&data=20130606055250338000&ident=M100V137&chksum=a2a9d6d5)

I ran into a few bugs, but they were very responsive about fixing them. If you have any issues, the lead developer Ian can be contacted via Skype (ian.who.net) or via email (ian@ciyam.org) or via PM (CIYAM Open).

I tried to add project tasks for each of the pieces discussed -- if I missed any, let me know and I will add them.

So far the donations for the bounty are up to 45.32, + 18 from Monetas == total of 63.32 BTC.

Just to let you guys know that I am online now (and will be for at least a few more hours - living in China it is around 9:45pm here).

If you can't reach my on Skype then most likely I am asleep - but I will respond to any email within 12 hours or so.

Registered without problems, seems like a great service.

Question to fellowtraveler:
Are the Project Task Delivery dates final or did you just fill in a random date?

Minor glitch report to CIYAM:
When I write a note when bidding for a task I have to escape commas to not get an error message.
Bla bla bla\, blablabla.

Ouch - I will look into this - in case it's relevant what browser?

In regards to the dates - you should provide the Delivery date that *you* are comfortable with (once accepted the Task will change to it). Be sure to allow time for review and rework.

I just put the "end of the month" for the date. I'm not going to hold people to that date. (But at some point -- e.g. 6 months later if it's still not done, then that's "not cool.")

Just to be be clear - it is *of course* up to the Project Manager how long to wait to accept or reject a task (the system only mandates that the date and time you offer must be >= to the suggested Delivery date and time).

http://s17.postimg.org/vohjbre1b/Untitled.jpg

Preview of the first level menu.

Working on the OT HTTP calls, well researching then implementing.

Bug swatted and please note that after you create a save a Project Task Bid you then need to click "Check Balance" (to verify the BTC address balance is what you think it should be) and then "Open Bid" (it can't be edited after it has been "opened" so be sure all the details are correct first).

For those who do not want to use GPG in order to sign up please use https://ciyam.org/open (i.e. HTTPS) or if you prefer to use Google or another OpenID account click on the icon to the right of the "key" instead of the key itself.

Each time I love it more!
I'm proud of you guys. Each of you!
Let's build this thing! This Ideal!

I don't have almost nothing at the time. But i'll surely contribute. I'm with you!

If you guys check the balance on the Moneychanger project site (CIYAM Open) you will see there are now 63+ BTC available there.

There are still some tasks that people haven't signed up for -- please do so!

I believe in this idea so I contributed founds to the bounty.
Let's go for it ;D

I have a couple newbie questions. Sorry for my English and non-techie jargon. I apologize if my questions make little sense. Please do not shoot me.

1. What will be the price and time (event) format of the data feed of the decentralized exchange?
Date,Time,Price,Volume
e.g. 2013-06-08,14:50:17 (what about milisecond or microsecond timestamping?),120.7676598765 (number of digits down to Satoshi denomination?),150000000 (volume traded in Satoshis?)

The reason I ask is I would like to find out which charting platforms can be hooked to the data feed. There is going to be a historical and real-time data feed available?


2. Who will aggregate and transmit historical and real-time trade tick data (is low latency possible)? After a few years the database can be many gigs of data for one symbol / instrument alone if transactions via Holly Grail are frequent.

As far as I'm aware those details are yet to be determined. So far the tech has only just been established to negotiate asset-pair/clearing-server discovery on secure, unspammable broadcast (P2P) channels. Detailed protocols for negotiating on those channels are in development ... sounds like there might be an opening for your input?

Since the broadcast requires proof-of-work (around 3-4 mins on regular modern desktop) it will hinder bots broadcasting millisecond bids (unless they get some serious CPU crunching behind them) ;)

Maybe there could be two data feeds:
a) a raw (unconfirmed / without proof of work) data feed - this will report ticks (transactions) as they are effected with a high precision timestamp.
b) a delayed one (after proof of work)

I would not use the millisecond precision to place orders (I do not have the infrastructure to do so). I would use it only for strategy backtesting and optimization.

If you have 10 transactions occurring at a given second:
- a second resolution will not tell you which tick was 1st and which tick was 10th
- a millisecond resolution will tell you the exact order in which those 10 transactions were made, so a better automated (counter-bot, counter-whale) strategy can be devised.

Correct me if I'm wrong, the major reason that BM's PoW is integral would be to eliminate 'junk' transactions?

Don't know if BM's PoW is integral. Don't know if its major reason (if it is integral) is to eliminate 'junk' transactions. I am sorry - I am just a silly newbie  :P

I was looking for ways to ease the life of traders who need non-delayed data to plot their charts. I am fine if my ideas / questions is declared non-sensical.

You introduce a much needed angle that BM is not a perfect solution for fast microtransactions needed for arbitrage.

Hal Finney's elegant solution for hardening client wallet:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=154290.msg1635481#msg1635481
Which grew from:
Mike Hearn proposed the kernel timestamp of TRUST via TPM.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67508.0

Is this not a better solution for the issue? We could identify through broadcast on separate channel server/server integrity/program integrity and graph results without breaking privacy of OT server.

There's still the issue that this system will simply connect multiple traders together, and not much else. It will be up to the traders themselves to actually negotiate and complete the exchange, which will very likely take more than a few milliseconds to complete. Also, BM doesn't take 3-4 minutes for POW. More like 10 to 60 seconds, especially for smaller messages.

A very interesting project. I like it.
Will be used Namecoin for the credential layer for the identities ?

To any QT/C++ devs out there that have a few minutes of their time to help instruct me on how to include shared objects (.so) files along with header files (.h) in the QT Creator .pro setup? if i don't make any sense to you don't reply to this message, Please PM me. I'd be willing to give $50 in BTC value if you can help me get the init command of the OTAPI working on QT Creator. I have experience with including external libraries but mostly major libraries like SSL and the like.

Headers are not included in the project file -- they are included in the CPP files.

(But while building, your compiler will fail to FIND those headers, unless they are on the include path.)

The shared objects (.so files) are the Linux version of DLLs. Since you are installing to $HOME/.local, then you probably just need to make sure that $HOME/.local/lib is on your library path. (It will only find libraries that are on the library path.) I'm willing to bet that this part is already handled by the PKG_CONFIG_PATH which you have already set.

You will also need to make sure that your makefile is linking the appropriate libraries. For example, if you were linking with g++, you would be adding -lotapi to the link step. That's the instruction that tells it to link the otapi library (which it will search for on the library path.) I'm not sure how you instruct a QT project file to link a specific library, but it will be something similar.

Sounds like i did it all correctly. I'll post my .pro file for everyone to review, i even did the -L filepath -lotapi thing as well

https://github.com/Xenland/Moneychanger/blob/54488f04b3173acc123a469d08dd834f4399398e/Moneychanger/Moneychanger.pro

:)

Why are you guys donating so much money for this?

It must be important.

Just an example: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173108.msg2425367#msg2425367

How would the Integration with legacy banking be done?
Do we initiate the SEPA transaction via some sort of API or do we just tell the user to "go to his banking site and send money to XYZ"?


60btc for three(?) programmers is actually pretty low payment, even if we manage to finish it in one month (not very likely considering the amount of beta-testing required for such an application) :)

You might want to watch this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173220.0

Currently Mt Gox and other exchanges are the only source for price reporting. With a decentralized exchange, how will anybody know how much Bitcoin is worth?

edit: Is this the function of the Advanced feature: Markets?

How do black markets work?

Not very well.

I would assume by tracking and processing the datafeed of the last few transactions that propagated over the network, similar to a blockchain explorer. Only skimmed the thread so far though, so I could be wrong.

Plus, I don't think classic exchanges would disappear. They would keep operating, and arbitrage would guarantee no significant price difference would last long.

Now I'm thinking I am more experienced in coding than compiling, Someone else might want to take the OT calls bounty so I can leech off their compiling efforts as i seem incapable of being able to get OT to compile and run with out crash (let me know if you need my notes/experiences on OT call integration so FT dosen't have to waste his time explaining the steps again), and I'll just take HTTP interface (so plugins/websites can communicate with the tray)


Scratch that for now.....

OT builds with fPIC turned on.

Is your QT app also building with fPIC turned on?

If not, then I would expect problems to arise at link time. (Which, for dynamic libraries, is at run time.)

Are you noticing, at run time, that a problem occurs in your main app, when you call something from a different shared object?

If so, then it sounds like they aren't compiled with the same options. (Whether 32/64 bit, or fPIC / no-fPIC, etc)

Are these bounties related in any way?
[BOUNTY] 185+ BTC - Open Transactions Client (for Grandmas) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=105506.0)
Open Transactions Client (for Grandmas) - Rugatu (http://www.rugatu.com/questions/3691/open-transactions-client-for-grandmas)

I doubt that. It's the same bounty btw. The sponsor or author of OP for the bounty has not been active on this forum in half a year. You better not rely on him to appear and evaluate submitted code.

Obsi has not been active, but code is on FellowTraveler github, and it's been upgraded constantly.

Better wait for an answer, but if someone is going to countribute, better following this Holy Grail topic and donate through CIYAM.

All, I want to state that I support this effort, but will be withdrawing my bid to pursue any part of this bounty due to the progress and funding I am receiving for the development of BitShares.   

   

Had my last day of work yesterday so I'll be able to start developing holy grail code full-time now.

Good luck with BitShares and have fun, bytemaster :)

I would like to see this project created as a multi lingual application - added language menus, translation files etc. If that is done I pledge additional 5 BTC. Anyone has experience with Qt Linguist?

If you'd like to hold the 5 BTC at a specific address (and name the address) then I will create a task within the project for internationalization, and your 5 BTC will show up as allotted for that task.

I don't see much difference between my promise to pay 5 BTC for that task and keep 5 BTC on a specified address under my ownership. This is why I shall gladly transfer 5 BTC to an address you specify. Just PM me a bitcoin address of your choice?

I think it would probably be better from for FT to create the task with an address that you can send 5 BTC if you so wish (keeping the Project Management side separate from the donation).

I think it would be better for FT to "be in charge" of that so that there aren't any future arguments about payment (perhaps @becoin was thinking the same thing).

Understand that so far for FT's project *all* the BTC addresses are under FT's control.

Since this thread seems to be where everyone serious about seeing Open Transactions succeed is posting and actively funding development, I wanted to present an enhancement to OT that could truly be the Holy Grail!

Some of you may have been following BitShares, but you may not have seen the latest white paper:  http://the-iland.net/static/downloads/BitSharesWhitePaper.pdf

In this paper I outline an approach that integrates OT-like solution for enabling fast, anonymous, transactions and trades.   

1)  All reserves in all currencies are held on the BitShare block chain.   The OT Server would no longer have to deal with issuer contracts.
2)  An OT server can register with the blockchain by posting a surety bond with one or more escrow agents who are also registered in the blockchain.
3)  Deposits are made to the OT server via the blockchain which will hold / control the funds.
4)  The blockchain will honor the last-signed receipt from the OT server + User to withdraw funds.
5)  Any user may 'challenge' any withdraw transaction posted to the blockchain, these 'challenges' will be performed by automated audit-bots.
6)  When a transaction is challenged, the escrow agent (also an automated bot) validates the latest audit and determines who is at fault:
       1) the server  (in which case the server's escrow funds are lost and all accounts are frozen at the last successful audit)
       2) the person making the withdraw ( in which case the withdraw is denied and transaction fee kept)
       3) the person challenging the withdraw (in which case they forfeit a deposit made with their challenge request)

Escrow agents (bots) are anonymous and also post surety bonds with other agents.    They make money on transaction fees charged by all withdraws/deposits to many different OT servers and thus have a reputation to maintain to protect their revenue stream.  Escrow agents are also unable to steal funds because they can only deny withdraw requests AND they are also bonded and their actions can be challenged.   Besides, an OT server would probably have N different escrow agents that must all agree for a withdraw to occur.  Users would only deposit money with an OT server if they trust at least one of the escrow agents who in theory have a trusted track record serving many other OT servers.

Transaction servers make money on transaction fees and are unable to 'steal funds' because the funds are controlled by the blockchain gated by the escrow agent.

All that is needed is an automated audit protocol that keeps accounts 'anonymous' while they are on the server.    OT can then use the block-chain exchange for pricing information while enabling users to transact anonymously, instantly, and trade in real time. 

I have found some significant backing / funding for the development of BitShares and am attempting to put together a budget / development plan / team.   If there is anyone on this thread that would be interested in a job integrating OT-like functions into BitShares and/or developing a trading GUI that has dual use for OT and BitShares then please contact me.

1. Does the construction of Bitshares, a P2P electronic brokerage system provide for dark pools / enable them / prohibit them / others?

You can never "prevent dark pools", but an OT transaction server acting as a high-speed exchange would be a dark-pool unless the trx server could be trusted to publish all exchanges.

With bitshares, all trades, bids, and asks end up in the block-chain and thus a public.

In summary:  the 'backing' of everything and ultimate price setting is public and is not a 'dark pool'.     Dark pools could exist outside the chain and the chain would *enable* trustless OT servers.

Assuming the audit protocol is 'atomic' and thus all signed receipts are instantly valid in any audit then the data published to enable the audit could go into the blockchain and the blockchain could then release the funds if presented with a receipt.

There would be no need for an escrow agent. 

All that is needed is a secure 'anonymous' audit protocol that does not tie accounts together like the blockchain does.

Then you could have instant transfers, 0 trust, and high-speed trading.  Only if you used the 'cash' feature would you have to trust the server and that may even be audit-able if all 'spent' tokens are published and the signature is publicly verifiable. 

From what I have read, the audit protocol is not throughly defined (in detail) nor is it defined how one would keep it anonymous.   If that is defined somewhere I would be VERY interested in seeing it.

Good, because with all the dark pools at different stock and futures (fiat) exchanges like CME I get the impression the data feed although showing proper price, has lots of volume missing (due to underreporting the volume generated by dark pools).

My gut feeling is that the volumes generated by dark pools at Bitstamp and MtGox are not shown in data feed availed to retail traders thus making it difficult to asses the real (retail + super-whale) volume.


Excellent ;D

Okay I have created this address: 1CHmSeTMYzJMshQhgYiUkMbUY1rATPovzY

If you want to send the 5 BTC there, then I will set up a task on the Holy Grail bounty for that address, for the purposes of Internationalization of the project.

Thanks for your interest and thanks in advance for your donation!

5 BTC sent. Thanks.

Would it not be easier and better to maintain to use a higher level language like python? Encrypting messages is only a handful of lines for example. RPC and http calls are easy to do.

Would it be ok for parts to call into python dlls (.pyd on windows) ?

BTW: What I never quite understood is: why not do the holy grail (= price finding) in Namecoin, too. Should be quite simple. Maybe one could even use atomic transactions to match orders. :-* Speed and order volume might be limited but I think that is the case with Bitmessage, too.

I guess once such a system is written for BTC, a client for merged mined coins or other alt coins will be just around the corner.

Because it would grow the namecoin blockchain for what? ... price quotes and bids? Namecoin is not a good idea for messaging. Bitmessage only holds a 2.5 day cache in a secured state.

People need to think a little harder about the cost implications of carrying around an ever-growing data load on thousands of machines. Quickest way to kill a blockchain would be to make it unusably unwieldly.

+1

Any update here? Who is developing this?

just browse the github repos and/or the project status per task at cyiam

On the colored coin part, I think we first need this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=242184.0

Because, to my shame, otherwise we don't have appropriate colored coin software.

If you are interested in having a project on CIYAM Open for this then I would be happy to help get that set up for you free of charge (PM me for further details).

Recently becoin donated 5 BTC for internationalization of this app.

You can see his project sub-task here:  http://ciyam.org/open/?cmd=view&data=20130627012452184000&ident=M100V131&chksum=7a036860

Good to see these people helping hard.

I can translate to portuguese when the time comes.
Just contact me.

Hope all is well with this project.  Where do we stand today?

Here is an overall summary of the Open Transactions project:
http://unoco.in/tech/open-transactions/ (http://unoco.in/tech/open-transactions/)

There are various sub-tasks (and bounties) in this project:

-- Namecoin integration 7.5 BTC
-- Systray GUI with OT integration 10 BTC
-- Markets UI 7 BTC
-- HTTP Interface 8 BTC
-- Integration with legacy banking 12 BTC
-- Bitcoin integration (multi-sig) 10 BTC
-- Bitmessage integration 11 BTC
-- Colored coins integration 10 BTC
-- Internationalization. 5 BTC

If you wish, you can contribute to the individual sub-tasks, whichever ones are your biggest priority.

----------------------------------------------------

Status:


-- Namecoin integration

===> This integration is what enables OT credentials to entirely ditch the legacy Certificate Authorities, and still be revokable.

===> As of last night, our contributor randy-waterhouse has come up with the scheme we are going to use, which will allow for expiration, revocation, multiple credentials, etc.

===> Here is the scheme, if anyone has feedback: http://opentransactions.org/forum/index.php?topic=10.msg40#msg40

===> We are tracking this sub-task here: http://ciyam.org/open/?cmd=view&data=20130607042737932000&ident=M100V131&chksum=6dd7acda


-- Systray GUI with OT integration
-- Markets UI
-- HTTP Interface

===> Xenland is coding this as we speak; he's been working on it for several weeks now.

===> He has a working QT systray app, and he has OT building inside it.

===> He is not done adding the OT functionality, but some of the menu items are working already.

===> Track his progress here: https://github.com/Xenland/Moneychanger


-- Integration with legacy banking

===> This sub-task is posted here: http://ciyam.org/open/?cmd=view&data=20130608221956480000&ident=M100V131&chksum=e257f8e6

===> We will probably not start this until the Bitmessage integration is well-underway.

===> We are hoping to take advantage of the work accomplished in this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173220.0;all


-- Bitcoin integration (multi-sig)

===> Work on this will probably not commence until the basic UI is finished.

===> However, there's no reason why this couldn't be coded now, if someone wants to bid on it: http://ciyam.org/open/?cmd=view&data=20130607042534492000&ident=M100V131&chksum=45d04220


-- Bitmessage integration

===> Work on this will probably not commence until the basic UI is finished.

===> Bitmessage project have already added the necessary changes on their side.

===> If someone wants to bid on this now, work can start immediately:  http://ciyam.org/open/?cmd=view&data=20130607042614187000&ident=M100V131&chksum=f0373e43


-- Colored coins integration

===> I don't think the colored coins guys are ready for this. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) We're waiting to hear from them on the best API for us to use.

===> Whenever they are ready, there's a bounty waiting to be collected: http://ciyam.org/open/?cmd=view&data=20130607042635688000&ident=M100V131&chksum=649becfd


-- Internationalization.

===> becoin has contributed 5 BTC towards internationalization, so we added this subtask: http://ciyam.org/open/?cmd=view&data=20130627012452184000&ident=M100V131&chksum=7a036860

===> No one has bid on this so far.

I like your wording  ;D

How is this a "Holy Grail" project?  I am posting late and having trouble picking up on the significance of this project in the 10 minutes I have spent reading up on it.  Although that is a decent bounty by all accounts..  Update for what I understand the purpose to be.  The development parts are for a P2P exchange to exist in its entirety?  If so what discussion exists for the traditional banking access handling?  Reading on the related projects there was incredulous debate concerning an IOU trust type ability.  How far does a CDS type arraignment go towards satisfying the trust problem?

Xenland has his own project listed on CIYAM Open (http://ciyam.org/open/?cmd=view&data=20121222131254938000&ident=M100V137&chksum=24be696c) which has a general donation address or otherwise you could donate specifically to the GUI task for Moneychanger that he is currently working on: http://ciyam.org/open/?cmd=view&data=20130607042814077000&ident=M100V131&chksum=9e58a546.

See this thread:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=212490.0

Guys,

Please design the system so that it can allow account / money management by an external person - a trader that only performs trading operations in exchange for a monthly success fee.

Something like this: http://www.dukascopy.com/swiss/english/forex/management/asset/

Well, they aready have loads of things to do, but this is a good idea!
Fellow and other contributors, if you can do what you are doing thinking in future possible features, like this one, it would be great!

There's nothing stopping you from transferring your money to someone and trusting him to do your trading for you. (And trusting him to return your assets when he's done.)

I don't see how you can eliminate this need to trust a trader, if he is not the owner of the funds. Once he has the power to trade those funds, he could trade them away to another account he secretly owns, in return for some worthless currency that he secretly issued.

in answer to:
http://opentransactions.org/forum/index.php?topic=10.msg40#msg40  Namecoin credential

Are you sure the id/ namespace is the right one? You might want to consider creating your own namespace.

holygrail/ is still free  :D

.... sure it could be "p/" or "hash/" or any other ... doesn't really matter. It is a discussion document so comments welcomed.

And there is a catch: I only want the external trader to perform certain trading actions (shorting BTCUSD, going long on LTCUSD) with my assets, but I do not want him to transfer my assets to his account. I only trust him when it comes to his trading skills.

what about ot/

I assume "holy grail" is just a working name. There are some religious people around even here that might not like it.

The name of the project on CIYAM Open and github is Moneychanger.

The Grail was just filled by yet another BTC. Adding a dezentralized version of NashX would be great for snailmail "escrow". Eventually...

Any update on this? @fellowtraveler when do you think there will be a need for the first testers? I am only so impatient because it is so exiting.

Once we reach the point where internationalization is implemented, I would be glad to work on the German translation.

What's the status of Bitcoin integration/colored coin integration?

ciyam open says it is "Coding - Pending" for both, but I have no idea what it means.

If nobody started coding yet it probably makes sense to give these tasks to me / BitContracts.org team.

Since we already started implementing colored coin library in C++, it should work nicely with this project.

The Pending status means that the tasks have been assigned and are presumably under development.

When does "presumably under development" get changed to "likely bounty squatting" ?

Good point - it is up to the Project Manager (so nothing that I am controlling) - if no-one completes the task within a reasonable time-frame then the Project Manager is free to "Reject" the bidder and get another one.

To be perfectly clear - "bounty squatting" is entirely under the control of the Project Manager.

I feel the same way. Once this gets dumbed down to my level there's all sorts of stuff I can't wait to try... Last time I got OT+Moneychanger to actually work was like a year ago, and I couldn't figure out much more than Baskets. ;D I'll probably be most useful updating the wiki for other mere mortals.

Once the GUI is easy for everyone to use, do you folks think a prediction market might be a better model for these bounties? That would eliminate squatting, and also give participants a good projection for completion dates.

In my experience it is hard to find highly skilled developers who have some spare time. (For Bitcoin projects... My theory is that everybody is hiring so this completely depleted the pool of available devs.)

Usually developers want a concrete payout model like "do this, get 10 BTC", as it matches per-hour wage they are used to. I.e. they know what a hour of their time is worth, they estimate how long it takes to complete a task, and can thus know whether it is a good deal or not.

If you introduce a risk of non-payment (e.g. if two devs work do same job only one gets paid), you need to compensate for it by higher payoff.

Also you need to take into account developer psychology. It is a very complex topic, but the general idea is that developers are more likely to take small tasks which they are prepared for.

Also they care about awesomeness, good cause, prestige etc.

Say, if something takes 1 hour of time and involves only tech I know, I will take risk, and even accept discounted payment if it is cool and everything.

So I think prediction market might work if you break whole thing into small tasks.

But this is very problematic:

• very few developers know all required tech, and preparation takes a lot of time
• designing the solution takes time
• it is very hard to break the whole thing into smaller pieces, basically to do this you need to design the architecture in all details
• when people care only about completion of a certain task they are more likely to commit bad code, or do not take into account the big picture

We've been trying to develop colored coins using bounty model for 6 months or so, and it wasn't effective. I'm now using a different approach for BitContracts.org: we have a team, of sorts. While individual team members get bounties, the difference is that they work continuously on many tasks, so preparation is less of an issue (you prepare only once), they are interested in long-term success and so on.

I haven't tried it, but what might work is hackathon-style events. It is easier for a programmer psychologically: if it is possible to find, say, 24h to work on this project, programmer can just commit to work on it, and have no worries about distractions and such.

Also hackathon might be perceived as a fun time, risk is bounded, so programmers will be more likely to do this.

Also it would help a lot if people who have more experience or have better vision will be available through the event to give advice. It happens very often that programmer is stuck on what appears to be trivial, and availability of an expert can drastically speed up the development and reduce complexity.

hey,

I'm one of the people working on the holy grail tasks.
Sorry, but so far I've not done much yet :(
I set up the dev environment and started playing around a bit but due to lots of real-life stuff and needing a holiday I haven't done much real work on it yet.
However I do have free time and skills, so don't worry, I just had some higher priority tasks to take care of first :P

Just wanted to give you a status update from my side, from what I saw Xenland is working hard on his tasks.

The entire focus of CIYAM Open is "tasks" so hopefully this matches what both the Project Manager and Contributor are wanting to achieve.

Also being a C++ programmer since the 90's I am happy to offer help (and already have done so) to parties working on this project (for CIYAM Open there is nothing better than a project that *succeeds* in its goals).

So your status update is ... you haven't done much of anything? Thnx for keeping us in the loop.

Looks like Xenland has stalled out also.

Sure - it may be frustrating to wait for tasks to be finished but are you willing to do something (other than complain)?

Just observing, not complaining ... bit sensitive?

Not sensitive - but realistic - if people don't contribute funds then how do they think that things will get done?

Things are happening but only at the rate that the funds that have been made available can make them happen.

So what ... you are saying now open source projects need funding or they will never happen? Sounds like you might be in the wrong game if open source has become about the money for you ... and besides there is over 6k available in total for this project, which you are probably well aware of, and it doesn't seem to have inspired anybody greatly anyway.

Interested to know what price would you have put on getting this done professionally (not some intern, learner , etc)?

I do hope that you understand that I do not get any benefit from hosting Moneychanger or Xenland's project on CIYAM Open (they are fee free forever).

I am more interested in helping interesting ideas and projects than making money.

I would like to think that Jeff Garzik being hired (full time) by BitPay to develop Bitcoin has increased his productivity now that he can devote all his time to it.

I work every day on CIYAM for *nothing* and have been doing so for years.

If others don't do this I don't blame them (you do need to pay bills in the real world) and the entire point of CIYAM Open is to create a place where developers can earn money for their contributions to open source projects that people want to support.

<3 u're an example. This is the spirit! I'm with you.
People who can't understand this should stop criticism and what they can do for helping!

Transparency and information is always good, and his doing his job.

Now please stop spamming and going offtopic, cause this post is important and already big. People who come here already have many things to read, don't waste their/our time.

For status updates I've told the OT team that I would take a week long break, it has now gone on to 1.5 weeks because I got hired into a huge option that will fund my career and pays now, with the OT taskes I get paid when I'm finished and at the rate I can gather responses from the OT team (at the rate I can collect enough information to code more basically) -- they are hard at work its difficult to get a straight answer which is nothing new in the programming world so nobody skwak at them because of that reason.  I expect the delay to go on for the rest of the month based on my current rate of work over work load ratio at my recently more higher paying gig. The MC app will get finished but we are running at the most appropriate rate possible to get it done(as cyiam as put it clearly he knows best about these work/task related issues more then anyone i know if you ask me). The amount of Bitcoins the tasks have been assigned I feel are appropriate too, however if you want it done faster with the same quailty you have to pay more.
 It costs money/resources/energy/management/food/water to program you know.

:D

... or you may have been the wrong guy for the job in the first place.

marcus_of_augustus, if you want someone with more free time on his hands to code it, you'll have to do it yourself or add to the bounty until you attract more programmers or until it pays enough to work on the project full time.
the only thing that's not going to help is bitching.

btw as you can see on github, I started coding (not related to your bitching though!).

Indeed - only *two* people have even put in bids to do any of the tasks and of course those bids were created by the *only* two people that are working on any of the tasks listed on CIYAM Open.

So if you think that they shouldn't be working on the tasks then there would be ZERO people working on them instead.

You might see it as bitching ... but recall it is an open source project (many are done by unpaid volunteers remember) now we have a guy who is questionably not even up to the task (learning the trade ok I get that) claiming the bounty, starting the project and then now basically holding it to ransom asking for more money to get the job finished ... let's just make sure everyone is operating in good faith and above board before you throw around accusations about bitching, not coughing up enough, etc etc shall we?

If coders actually had the chops to get it done and put up the goods before talking all big about it I might show a little more respect ... at this stage it is looking like a very poor show and I feel sorry for the people who stumped up to put money into the bounty pots.

I guess I was just expecting a little bit more integrity from open source coders .... my failing there I suppose, bounty mercenaries seems to be the way around here these days. Sure, why not shop it out to a software house and get it done properly at least then?

Seriously how much work do you think you are going to get for 75 BTC at a proper "software house" (at the rates I normally charge you would get less than 40 hours for that amount - and although I am very competent I don't believe that I could possibly complete all those tasks in that amount of time)?

And if you think it should be outsourced to some even less skilled people (like many on freelancer.com) then I think your chances of even getting a working solution are remote.

Also in regards to inexperience I am happy to help out with any C++ questions from either contributor (and I have been writing C++ professionally since the mid-90's).

One further thing to understand is that FellowTraveller can "Reject" the tasks being currently performed by any contributor (on the grounds that they are overdue) - yet I think he understands that if he did that now then NO-ONE will do them (as I wrote before - Xenland and JaSK are the only two to even bid on *any* of the Moneychanger tasks on CIYAM Open).

I want to do the Namecoin integration, since I've already written similar code (although probably on a smaller scale) to integrate Namecoin into Bitmessage, a home-grown Mozilla add-on (see https://nameid.org/ for its purpose) and am working right now on Namecoin integration to the Pidgin OTR plugin.  Thus this seems like a good fit.

I tried to register an account at CIYAM open with my GPG key at http://www.domob.eu/domob.asc and the site claims to have sent an email to me, but I didn't receive it (also not in spam folder or so).  What can I do to fix this?  (I also tried OpenID login with https://nameid.org/, but this also does not work.)

We're not holding anything for ransom.
We don't get the coins until we finish a task and anyone is free to join the project and do it himself.

domob, I received my encrypted email when I registered but you can also change the address to https:// which will allow you to register without PGP key.
Edit:
What is your Namecoin-OTR-Plugin going to do?

Okay - I can see the system actually didn't attempt to send you an email as it had problems understanding the output from GPG after it added the key (you should have seen that error first - probably it told you it thought that it had found multiple email addresses). I will look into getting a fix for this done today.

I haven't tried https://nameid.org/ although I have tested gmail and myopenid - I will make a note to look into that. If you could perhaps let me know what error you got using that then I'd appreciate it.

If you would like me to create an account for you manually then welcome to PM me.

@domob - fixed the issue and have now created your account using your GPG key (an email *has* been sent this time) - sorry about the bad sign-up experience but at least you can see the support isn't too bad.

Any further problems please PM me.

Sorry for the off-topic reply, but anyway:  It will allow you to verify OTR key fingerprints for contacts.  The idea is that someone can store their fingerprint(s) with a namecoin name, and then they can tell me that name (which is easier than a fingerprint) at an in-person meeting or some other side-channel, and I can just tell OTR to check whether my contact's claimed fingerprint actually matches any one in the name I remember.

@CIYAM:  Thanks, I got the email now.  (But can only log in later, since I'm not at my home computer now and don't have the GPG private key here.)  If HTTPS can be used and doesn't require GPG, why isn't it used by default?  (Although I have to admit that I like the idea of GPG encrypted credentials.)  And yes, at first I copied my key with some blanks / newlines at the end, which caused an error about the CRC being wrong.

When I tried signing in with https://nameid.org/ as OpenID, basically nothing happened (no error, I was just shown again the form asking for the OpenID, with the input field reset).  Some other providers also have problems with this site (Sourceforge and the Bitmessage forum are the ones I know about) while StackExchange for instance works fine, as do the http://test-id.org/ tests.  I have to admit I don't know what the problem is (or if I can fix it), I'm using the php-openid library for the OpenID related stuff.

PM sent.

Am sure that FT will be happy to have another forum member interested in working on the project!

Well, the idea is that if tasks are available for grabs, other people can grab them.

Particularly, as I mentioned I'm interested in colored coin part because I'm already working on a library works with colored coins.

Here's one in Python: https://github.com/bitcoinx/ccoin-agent-py (incomplete), but I think it's worth doing another one in C++ for this project.

Indeed - there are already tasks available for grabs but no-one has expressed any interest in them (other than now the Namecoin one).

I'm currently working on Bitcoin integration and will do Bitmessage next so I wouldn't mind if anyone does namecoin and colored coins in the meantime.

Any chance most of this can be done, or workable, by the end of September? I'd be nice to have a public demo of the system at the Amsterdam conference, since it would give Chris a chance to actually explain the system and answer questions for those still having trouble wrapping their heads around this thing. Also, deadlines are good :D

There are some new websites up that might help ... the wiki was kind of, shall we say impenetrable, for many it seems.

http://opentransactions.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page (http://opentransactions.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page)

http://opentransactions.org/forum/ (http://opentransactions.org/forum/)

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/35npu6/

I can't stress this enough people......

It seems the Namecoin task on CIYAM open needs a "review" in order for me to mark my intention to work on it.  Looking forward to help out here, though! :)

I did send FT a PM in regards to the Namecoin task (and some others) needing their Review Due date and times to be put into the future but haven't got a response yet.

If anyone else is able to contact him perhaps they could ask him to check his forum messages.

Okay so task one is basically finished I'm waiting for FT to respond to me about what account/cash purse dialogues should contain. and then I can move on to the HTTP part.

(Quick link to the code so far: https://github.com/Xenland/Moneychanger)

*EDIT: Moved from Dropbox to Google Drive since many were complaining the videos were cut short at the end.


Here are the new videos of the Monetas iPhone app:


Intro video: http://goo.gl/8Dxak1

Advanced video: http://goo.gl/u6xqHc


FYI, this actually constitutes work towards "Holy Grail", since much of the code in the iPhone app is also being used in the Holy Grail desktop app.

Of course I'm not claiming any of the bounty, that's for you guys to do. Just letting you know that progress is occurring on all fronts.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will be updating the CIYAM project shortly, and I will get back to everyone who has PM'd me.

For those who wish to email with PGP, you can get my PGP key from the Open-Transactions project (it's in the main folder) and email me at: fellowtraveler at rayservers.net

Great to see progress and if anyone needs help in regards to using CIYAM Open feel free to PM me.

How much of a bounty to get this onto an Android?

It's an ongoing project. But bounties are always welcome xD

Is it just me or does it seem like the videos cut off early?  Is there a part 2 for either of these?  

Awesome stuff FT!  Really looking forward to future updates.

Great thanks ft, I'm going back to work on the taskses I've claimed. Shouldn't be long now

Did you DOWNLOAD the videos?

If not, then the problem is probably not the videos themselves, but the Dropbox video player. (Had lots of similar comments.)

How are transaction fees applied in this app?

Currently there are only Usage Fees -- meaning (if they are turned on) the server charges one "usage credit" per API call. The server operator has the ability to "re-up" your usage credits.

There is, of course, great demand for transaction fees from server operators, which charge some small percentage of the transaction itself. We haven't added this yet, but it's coming.

When that is implemented, it will have to be based on rules in the server contract, so that the client software can properly form the transaction request to include that fee. (The server can only verify/countersign your transaction requests, which prevents it from forging receipts, since it cannot forge your signature.)

iam a yound professional graphic & web designer. love the idea behind ... if you need help on any design tasks pls let me know ...

looking forward heargin from you

Thanks...download worked fine.  I didn't know there were issues with Dropbox video player.

Hi all!

Time for an update on this project (the tasks are viewable here: http://ciyam.org/open/?cmd=view&data=20130606055250338000&ident=M100V137&chksum=a2a9d6d5 )

----------------------------------------

First off, Xenland has done an excellent job creating a QT systray project that integrates with the OT API. (Xenland has already posted screenshots.) It is able to successfully make OT API calls, and it's got menus and some dialogs, but it's nowhere near complete.

You can see the project here:  https://github.com/Open-Transactions/Moneychanger

Unfortunately Xenland said recently that he wouldn't be able to work on it for at least the next month, as he has real life things he has to prioritize.

As the last review date was a month or two ago, we're re-opened the task for bidding so we can get it moving again. Any QT experts interested? As always, I will be available to support you and provide whatever you need on the OT side.

----------------------------------------

Secondly, the code in Xenland's app that actually "drives OT" has been completed by myself, since at Monetas we had to use it in our iPhone app. (And we'll be using it in our Android app as well.)

So you can see that code working now in our iPhone demo videos:

introduction: http://goo.gl/8Dxak1

advanced: http://goo.gl/u6xqHc

----------------------------------------

Third, you may notice each individual task has a bounty associated with it. So if you want to donate to the effort, please donate only to the address associated with the INDIVIDUAL TASK you are supporting, and not to any other BTC address (such as the addresses appearing for the overall "Moneychanger" project or the "General UI" or "Integration" categories.) This way the amount will update for your individual task, and that will help incentivize coders to take on those tasks.

----------------------------------------

Fourth, the "Internationalization" task has a 5 BTC donation, but it appears as a "0.0" -- This is because it was donated to the main address instead of to the individual "Internationalization" task (which was my fault.) So at some point soon I'll be re-arranging the funds to get the 5 BTC to appear on that task.

----------------------------------------

Fifth, OT contributor randy-waterhouse has figured out the proper protocol for using Namecoin for OT credentials, which is viewable here: http://opentransactions.org/forum/index.php?topic=10.msg40#msg40

I've been contacted by a potential Namecoin integrator and so hopefully we'll be able to get that task assigned to him ASAP.

----------------------------------------

That's it for now!

Glad to hear.
I would like to suggest opening a CIYAM sub-task for translating the interface.
I've already said I'll translate it to portuguese.
It think it will help organizing the tasks and and distributing the tasks earlier will help to finish it earlier.
For most of the languages, probably bounties will not be necessary, but if someone wants to donate for the translation to any language that's not there, latin, klingon, elvish, russian, japanese, etc, etc, it would be welcome.

Whom ever finishes the Basic GUI task could be so kind as to splitting up the reward based on code usage if they decide to use all or part of my code. Much would be appreciated :D

I'm currently implementing the multi-sig-functionality, guess I'll get that done over the weekend, GUI elements will follow next week.

@fellowtraveler and @jan
I think I can't place a new bid for the re-opened tasks on CIYAM because one can only apply once, so can you please enable them again for me?
I'm making good progress with Bitcoin Integration (when I find time to work on it), Bitmessage is something someone else can work on but if nobody will I'll do it next.

Am guessing by @jan you meant @ian and so have now deleted all the rejected bids for the Moneychanger project (allowing yourself and Xenland to bid any of the tasks again).

Although generally one bid per task makes sense this scenario wasn't one I had actually considered and so will give it some thought (maybe the limit should just be for one *active* bid per task).

Yes, I meant ian, sorry.
In Germany we spell it jan but pronounce it ian so my subconsciousness must've mixed that up :p
Thanks for fixing the issue, I also think one active bid per task would probably be best.

Any news?

There is a somewhat similar project by now: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=295930.0  (Zeroreserve, a Retroshare based Ripple Clone with BTC instead of XRP). Maybe there are some synergies to make use of...

As you can see in my git history (https://github.com/tuttleorbuttle/Moneychanger/network) I managed to implement most of the required bitcoin api calls.

We can now verify that certain transactions have been made (if we have the tx id) so my next step is to implement the actual escrow protocol.

Iirc that requires just three more api functions (create-, sign- and sendrawtransaction) which shouldn't be difficult and some GUI elements and buttons.
At the beginning this won't be very comfortable to use (addresses and tx ids will have to be shared and typed in manually) but we can probably automate part of that process by communicating over bitmessage or direct p2p connections. But that will take more time and I'll have to ask FellowTraveler how he'd like it to be done.

Also please note that http://ciyam.org has had a complete design rework.

We are keen to continue working with the Moneychanger project and encourage skilled devs to sign up.

There are many contributors who I'm sure want a quick UPDATE on status, and we're making LOTS of EXCITING PROGRESS!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

First, here are the main project tasks as posted on the "Ciyam Open" project management site:

Systray GUI with OT integration   General UI   BTC:   10.000
Namecoin integration (credentials)   Integration   BTC:   7.500
HTTP Interface                     General UI   BTC:   8.000
Colored coins integration         Integration   BTC:   10.000
Bitmessage integration            Integration   BTC:   11.000
Bitcoin Integration (Multisig)         Integration   BTC:   10.000
Internationalization                  General UI   BTC:   5.000
Integration with legacy banking      Integration   BTC:   12.000
Markets UI                           General UI   BTC:   7.000

------------------------------------------------------------------------

LATEST STATUS ON TASKS:

-------------------------------------------------

Systray GUI with OT integration   General UI   BTC:   10.000

Since Xenland stopped working on this, I have taken over personally, courtesy of Monetas.

I'm nearly done! It's working great, and I will be posting a video really soon!

For those who have seen the iPhone video already, the functionality is basically the same, except more powerful. The UI is very similar and looks great... finally a real UI people can use for OT! Hopefully we can start making an official install program soon.

Here's my commit history:
https://github.com/Open-Transactions/Moneychanger/commits/master

===> Once this task is completed (video coming soon) I will split the bounty between myself and Xenland, based on the difference in code.

===> I will not keep my share of the bounty, but will re-distribute it among the existing tasks of the project.

-------------------------------------------------

Namecoin integration (credentials)   Integration   BTC:   7.500

The purpose of this integration is to allow us to eliminate Certificate Authorities, by making revokable OT credentials through Namecoin. (And to support other credential systems as well, with Namecoin just being the first one integrated.)

There's a developer working on this Namecoin integration, and I've been in regular contact with him -- he's progressing rapidly.

We are near the point now of adding it to the UI with full-functionality!

On Sept 17th, the developer wrote:


On October 5th, he wrote:


On October 16th, he wrote:


On October 18th, he wrote:


===> The best part of this is that Namecoin is just an example of the kinds of credentials OT will now be able to support!

===> OT also supports self-signed credentials, as well as CA-based certs (through OpenSSL.)

===> Since this is implemented through an abstract interface, it will be trivial to support other identification systems, such as GPG web-of-trust, BitShares' BitIDs, Retroshare, etc.

-------------------------------------------------

HTTP Interface            General UI   BTC:   8.000

No one is working on this one yet, but now that basic functionality is nearly done, it shouldn't be hard to add an HTTP interface on a local loopback address.

This will enable many other applications to integrate, including web apps.

-------------------------------------------------

Bitcoin Integration (Multisig)      Integration   BTC:   10.000

JaSK has been kicking ass on the Bitcoin integration! He's got multi-sig coded!

On October 8th, he wrote:


His commit history on October 21st says:


See his commit history:
https://github.com/tuttleorbuttle/Moneychanger/commits/master

TL;DR: This means we are finally going to have multi-sig voting pools on OT! (These will enable an OT server to process Bitcoin transactions, without having to trust that OT server with your Bitcoins.)

(I mean frankly, isn't everyone in the Bitcoin community tired of having to trust all the various servers out there with their coins?)

JaSK recently asked:


The answer is: When a user wishes to move Bitcoins into OT, he will be sending the coins multi-sig, using your code as described above. As long as I am able to send and verify those coins, and as long as I am able to perform multi-sig votes to remove those coins back out, then I will be able to do the rest on the OT side. Bitmessage will not be needed for this, but if you want to get started on the Bitmessage integration, it's definitely needed for other pieces.

-------------------------------------------------

Integration with legacy banking   Integration   BTC:   12.000

As you guys know, we have a 12 BTC bounty on implementing this protocol for p2p transfer of funds in/out of legacy banking systems:
http://pastebin.com/SsLrxVP6

The protocol requires the use of smart contracts for dispute resolution inside OT (which OT is able to do) but it also involves integration with legacy systems.

Fortunately, people have been working on the integration, and there is now alpha software ready for testing!

See this thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173220.msg3429555#msg3429555

The next step is to integrate this (through an abstract interface) into the new GUI, and use OT smart contracts for escrow and dispute resolution.

The abstract interface will allow us to swap in alternate solutions as well, so we are not reliant on any one. But I have to say, it looks like these guys have done some great work so far.

-------------------------------------------------

Colored coins integration      Integration   BTC:   10.000

Not yet started.

We'll use an abstract interface here so we can handle disparate systems such as colored coins, master coins, bitshares, etc.

(OT strives to be agnostic on this sort of thing.)

BTW, we are also integrating with Project Praesto by ninjabanker, which is another system for providing fiat in/out, which uses Bitcoin reserves in order to eliminate the need for an "issuer" entity (normally trusted to hold the reserves in dollars / euros / etc)

I'm really excited about this solution, since it will take advantage of OT-based virtual corporations and of course, since it enables us to eliminate the issuer.

-------------------------------------------------

Bitmessage integration         Integration   BTC:   11.000

The original purposes of this integration:

1. Server-to-server wiring of funds.
2. Distributed exchange.
3. Integration with legacy banking.


Well, a great new benefit is being added to the pile:

4. Distributed bazaar. (Like E-Bay, except without the server.)

I realized a few weeks ago how easy this would be to add, using the same Bitmessage integration we already had planned.

So I worked out the UI with Yamamushi's help, and have started adding it to the GUI app.

This bazaar will not be functional until the Bitmessage integration is ready, but I do expect to have it all working soon.

-------------------------------------------------

Internationalization         General UI   BTC:   0.000

The Subtask in Ciyam Open appears to show a zero balance, but rest assured, a contributor put 5 BTC towards Internationalization, but the money is in the top-level wallet so it's showing incorrectly as a zero on the subtask. But the 5 BTC is really there, so if anyone wants to consider Internationalization of this project, there's a good reward waiting for you.

Update: Internationalization work has begun! See this commit history from one of our contributors:
https://github.com/Open-Transactions/Moneychanger/commit/023b0a0a649e7023d2c7dc10c9c8a3c692c97227

-------------------------------------------------

Markets UI               General UI   Open   7.000

Yamamushi is working on this page but I'm not sure of his current status. I will probably sync up with him sometime this week.

-------------------------------------------------

I will update the Ciyam Open project soon, once I have the video ready showing off the new GUI. (I hope to record one this week.)

You guys kick ass! Thanks for the update!

Thanks for the update. The Namecoin developer clearly is best in class, give him a bonus!

Awesome, what address can I donate to?

You can see the address for the project itself from here: http://ciyam.org/open/?cmd=view&data=20130606055250338000&ident=M100V137&chksum=a2a9d6d5

If you are more interested to donate to a specific task then scroll down and click on that task to see its address (each specific task has a specific address).

I haven't had a proper look at the other parts of Moneychanger/OT yet so I'm not sure what we can and can't do.
Just to clarify:
As part of the escrow protocol each involved party has to share things like public keys, transaction ids, signed transactions,.. with each other via a secure communication channel.

For testing we can just share those things via messenger and enter them in textboxes but that won't be very convenient or secure :p
Is communication between the parties something I don't have to worry about?

Correct.

As long as the basic functions are in place allowing us to send to multi-sig, verify multi-sig, and vote to release multi-sig, then all other communication should be handled inside OT as part of the bailment protocol.

Thanks for all the hard work. I am very much looking foreward to the first installer version.

Wohoo! You made my day FT! Now if only I had some free time to install OT on my system and actually play around with it  :-\

Ooooo. Nice. We (MasterCoin) have plans for distributed e-commerce too, but I'm a little worried about getting in trouble, since it can be used as a "distributed silk road". That's why that feature is currently at the bottom of the priority list. I do think there are legitimate uses for it, which is why it is on our todo list. I'd like to get the less controversial features done first though.

Exciting times. I hope you'll post screenshots soon of some of this stuff in action :)

Certainly I would never condone such operations, nor would I ever personally mis-use the software in such a way.


Clearly E-Bay is a big example of "legitimate uses", so that point IMO is without question demonstrably true.

Unfortunately I believe they are also ripe for disruption. (See, for example, their abuse of power vis-a-vis their prohibition on Bitcoin-related products.)

I've just made a pull request for the internationalization part.
This adds a settings window where you can choose your language (based on the available translations files (.qm) in the "translations" folder).
So far there is only US English and German, where German has just 2 windows translated (for debugging). I expect a few changes for the UI until the first release, that's why I don't recommend starting translating yet.

A short how-to for translators and developers is in /documentation/translating.

I hope for later we can count on the OT/Bitcoin community to translate Moneychanger in many different languages :)

Any open points for internationalization expect the language I didn't think of?

I'll have a look at the HTTP-Interface now. I would inform you if I definitely start working on this.

Edit: I've also written a small Windows installer (very easy with InnoSetup), but I didn't have the time to test it and to build OT for Windows.

Following.

I'd really like to code colored coins support for this. bitcoinx / NGCCC is implemented enough that this is possible now. The task status on Ciyam seems to be "review due", is it available?

FellowTraveller will need to set a new "review due" to a future date and then re-open the task (I think he will be doing that soon).

Looks great!

Did you hear about Zero Reserve? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=295930.0   Could there be some synergy effects that these two noble projects could benefit from?

Coming along nicely.

Hi, I'm French and my wife is Japanese, we could work on the internationalization into these two languages.
However right now, the alloted funds are 0 BTC. Is there going to be a bounty later on?

See here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=225954.msg3440808#msg3440808

It is not showing in the project page as the person who donated did not donate to the right address or something. 5 BTC are there however. See lclc's posts for what has been done so far.

Hello guys,

I have some free time in the next couple weeks. I'd like to help either on Spanish translations, or the Market UI.

I see lcl's last post is a month ago. Is there any change regarding these topics or could I just jump on em?

Thanks !

Wow!! Looking good mates!

Hi all,

I've been busy the past week or two implementing the Markets UI.

I had to make changes in OT itself so that it would support market orders. (OT now supports market orders, limit orders, day orders, fill-or-kill orders, stop orders, and stop limits.)

I've got the Markets UI about half done and should have it finished up in the next day or so. (I will not be collecting the money, but will instead re-allocate it to other tasks of this project.)

Re: Internationalization. Lclc already coded the internationalization, though he hasn't collected the bounty yet, I will be paying it out to him soon. I will also be paying Xenland his share of the basic UI bounty (Xenland, be sure to send me your BTC address.)

Note that this bounty wasn't for the translations into various languages, but rather for the internationalization coding itself.

Once I finish the Markets UI I'll record a demo video so everyone can see it in action. Also I should note that Yamamushi recently got an install.dmg working for the Mac platform!

I've spent some time on OT github's pages but couldn't locate where is the internationalization code? Is it in the master or is it forked somewhere?

HI, where did you look in OT or in Moneychanger?

It's all in the Master branch of Moneychanger:  https://github.com/Open-Transactions/Moneychanger (https://github.com/Open-Transactions/Moneychanger)

translation.h/.cpp, the settings UI, the example translations in /src/Translations, etc

@FT: Like I said I'm ok to receive the bounty when R1 is out. If you want to send it already now you cold send it to: 1BVh8G6P2T8zjS89EF9eTCiNq4wunPyGCG

Ah okay, didn't look on Moneychanger. Thank you for responding, lclc.

Yes, exactly.

lclc, could you provide the manual of how people willing to start translations of OT and Moneychanger UI into their own languages should use your code to do that?

FYI I wouldn't start the translations until, as lclc said, the first version of the app is ready.

Otherwise if some of the english strings end up having to change, the translations will require re-work as well.

I already made a small documentation-file about how to start translating. It's in the documentation folder: https://github.com/Open-Transactions/Moneychanger/blob/master/documentation/translating
Should be very easy with the Qt Linguist tool (it's the same for all Qt applications).

But yes, please don't start translating yet.

The Qt Linguist is really a nice tool.

My first impression is that not all English strings from OT and Moneychanger UI are included in the en_US.ts file. Indeed, if the first version isn't still ready it doesn't really matter as many strings will probably have to be changed. I suggest lclc get paid half of the bounty now and the other half when first translation is a fact, ie internationalization functionality is tested. But after all, FT is the lead. He decides how to proceed and I'll be perfectly fine with it.

Yes there aren't all strings included, I (or someone else) have to build those files everytime something changed (last time I build is some days ago). That's why I said you can't start translation now. As soon as the UI is finish we can start coordinating the translations.

I don't need the Bitcoins yet.

I've started working on the HTTP Interface.
When it's finished it should be possible for webdesigners to create an Open Transactions web client using only HTML and JS I think.

The interface looks like this:
http://127.0.0.1/register_nym?SERVER_ID=SciO6ANKm5Sk8UUSbJyM7Xu7CPAjVaISTAB5AmiuBTw&NYM_ID=Sx56Yvzn3nA3UylzWAoInzTOIyYrT6SFJbUyD6eXKgd

There is every function available from the OT_ME class:
http://opentransactions.org/docs/class_o_t___m_e.html
Be sure to use the same parameter name as keys.
If somebody wants a easier/different interface, please tell me what this should be able to do and how it should look like.

Is there anybody interested in making an OT webclient with HTML5/JS?

Good work lclc.

Merry Christmas!


Here are some brand new videos of this app:


Intro: http://goo.gl/Ea6rzq (http://goo.gl/Ea6rzq)

Advanced: http://goo.gl/i0J3AF (http://goo.gl/i0J3AF)


===> P.S. in the videos, I mention a couple of articles. Here are the links to those articles:

http://bitcoinism.blogspot.com/2013/12/voting-pools-how-to-stop-plague-of.html (http://bitcoinism.blogspot.com/2013/12/voting-pools-how-to-stop-plague-of.html)

http://bitcoinism.blogspot.com/2013/12/lex-cryptographia.html (http://bitcoinism.blogspot.com/2013/12/lex-cryptographia.html)

xmas pressies ... thnx.

Incredible work  :o

This whole field is expending at such a breakneck speed i'm getting dizzy. 

THX FT! How is that with the password when cash is exported. You set it to "blabla". You didn't need it to import, though. Or was it copied to clipboard together with the rest? Is a PW just needed for the blinding process?

Very impressive FT! Ever closer, needed comprehension.

FF

Because OT uses a passphrase to create or unlock a private key.

Once it does, that private key is securely cached until it times out (say, 30 seconds, or 5 minutes -- it's configurable.)

(Otherwise you might have to type a password 5 times during a single action.)

So it never asked again for that PW because it already had the key unlocked, and it hadn't timed out yet.

Thanks for the videos.

Market scaling... "Lump sum or nothing" option unquestionably is the most principal approach but is not enough for a truly liquid market. Very often users have nothing in spite if their limit orders are partially executed. They must be able to make a choice for the type of market scaling of their orders?

Partial execution - allowed/not allowed => if allowed => define minimum size of a single lot (default minimum must be the minimal denomination of the traded asset).

OT markets are very powerful:

-- Market orders (buy/sell full order at any price.)

-- Limit orders (where a price is set per scale.)

-- Scaled markets (price per 1 BTC, price per 100 BTC, price per 10000 BTC, etc -- these can be different markets based on scale.)

-- Fill-or-kill orders (fill the entire order, or no trades at all.)

-- Minimum increments (multiplied against scale. For example, if the scale is 1, and the minimum increment is 4, then the order will trade on the 1 BTC market, but only increments of 4 BTC at a time.)

-- Stop orders. (The offer only activates when the price reaches a certain amount, and then once it activates, it becomes a market order.)

-- Stop limits. (The offer only activates when the price reaches a certain amount, and then once it activates, it becomes a limit order.)

This is amazing!
Eventually this would kill all those Gox like exchanges, wouldn't it?

This project is looking really really good.
Gratz on the idea and the development.

There is one problem I didn't get clear with the videos.
If it is decentralized and the servers can't change people's balance, how will someone put dollars into the system?

Let's say my balance is 40 clams.

Then I make a transaction request:

----BEGIN SIGNED TRANSACTION---
===> My current balance is 40 clams.
===> Please send 10 clams to Bob.
===> My new balance will be 30 clams.
---END SIGNED TRANSACTION-----

The server merely verifies and counter-signs. It cannot forge transactions because it doesn't have your private key. It cannot change your balance because your "balance" is just whatever appears on the most recent receipt.

So the server CAN show balance changes -- it just can't initiate them (the user has to initiate them.)

That's all SEPARATE from how dollars get into the system. There are multiple ways that can be done:

1. Have a dollar issuer who is trusted to hold the dollars. Give him dollars, and he gives you dollar units (and vice-versa.) This would work with or without colored coins.

2. Assuming you have that, you can also buy/sell those units from any other user (not just from the issuer.)

3. OR: Create a dollar-based currency where agents provide in/out and post BTC-based bonds to secure that service. That way you don't have some trusted central issuer holding the dollars -- instead you have the dollars stored at the edge nodes, with the reserves stored as Bitcoin in a multi-sig voting pool. This is the Lex Cryptographia idea (google it.)

4. OR: Just store the reserves as Bitcoin directly, in a voting pool, and then buy/sell them using real-world dollars. That way you have dollar in/out functionality, without trusting anyone to hold any dollars (as in 3.) The currency is Bitcoin-based, instead of dollar-based, however. But you can still "move dollars in/out" so it's worth mentioning. The only reason to do (3) instead of (4) is so you can trade dollars against Bitcoins on markets.

Is this a windows only (systray) bounty offer?

I need to update the bounty on the Ciyam site. (Soon.)

The basic GUI is already done, as is the markets screen. (See the above recent videos to see it in action.)

The namecoin integration is done but hasn't yet been merged back into the main branch.

The Bitcoin integration is partially done.

I believe lclc is working on the HTTP interface already and has the API working through the HTTP interface.

dansmith is still working on the legacy bank integration.

===> The Bitmessage integration hasn't been done yet, perhaps we can discuss you doing that one if you wish.

The application was coded in Qt/C++ and runs on Linux, Mac, and Windows.

I didn't find the information about namecoin use with moneychanger, is it just being added as an asset, or there is any other uses for it under this software?

Namecoin can be used to associate your "identity" (Nym) with a key pair (credentials) used to authenticate as that identity.  This is optional, though, and there are also other ways to create Nyms that don't depend on Namecoin.

It's actually going to use Namecoin so that Namecoin can fulfil its stated purpose and not be just another altcoin people speculate on.

looks like a good match
how can I help

If you get a hold of me on the IRC channel on Freenode, we can discuss how you can help. I can walk you through the moneychanger source, and point you in the right direction for getting integrated into the app.

The channel on freenode is #OpenTransactions , my handle is "Yamamushi" and sometimes "Yamamushi-laptop" when I'm mobile.

Check out our new blog about Open Transactions and OT based projects:
http://open-transactions.github.io (http://open-transactions.github.io)

It also has good introduction articles about what OT is.

NEWS ITEMS:

-- I've moved to Switzerland!

-- See our new update video, including Bitmessage and Bitcoin integrations:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJKWDC4q5rA&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJKWDC4q5rA&feature=youtu.be)

-- It's time to pay out some bounties, which I'll be doing over the next couple days. (Huzzah!)

-- The new video also shows screenshots for Monetas' new Android app. Check 'em out!

-- Don't miss this music video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMQg546agpU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMQg546agpU)

This is crazy!

Thanks so much for the good work and update, Chris!

I wanted to share that I've been paid in full for my contributions to the holy grail project (if memory serves i contributed to the GUI side of Qt to the connections to the OT protocol/library and others came in and continued to contribute while i transitioned to other things).

I'm happy to see this thing kicked off and working with a lot of great documentation to come with it and it was a pleasure working with the team members. Thanks again!

I should mention that the above video has resulted in an article in the Wall Street Journal:

http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/08/04/bitbeat-crypto-innovators-find-fertile-ground-in-soft-touch-switzerland/ (http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/08/04/bitbeat-crypto-innovators-find-fertile-ground-in-soft-touch-switzerland/)

What is Timeline for a set up wizard which lets you install OT, Moneychanger GUI plus the server (probably lets you choose test server)? Is it planned at all? For which OSes? Maybe its already availabe and I have missed it?Congrats on the Wall Street Journal Article!

I've just been paid for my work on the Namecoin integration.  Thanks! :)

Internationalization like listed here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=225954.msg3440808#msg3440808

May post from back then:

The commits are here on page 8 and 9: https://github.com/lclc/Moneychanger/commits/master?page=8

Thanks

Bump..

I received my 5 BTC bounty, thanks fellowtraveler!

Congratulations!