Bitcoin Forum

I would like to hear other people's opinions as I am mostly interested in mining hardware and how mining affects me and I have noticed that the level of information in most of the ASIC forums is terrible because of people that I believe act like sock puppet accounts of the OP (in whatever post you choose).   They only venture out to attack competitors and other than that sit in their forum and attack anyone who questions anything.   And they all spend an unreasonable amount of time posting for anyone who is just an interested party (or even a zealot).   VBS seems to be one but Ken actually changed his structure to make things more fair.   We all know about the twit Josh/Inaba.   But, I would like people to weigh in on Bitcoinorama.

Joined April 23.  About two weeks after KNC started by saying they had a project and had been pushed really hard by hero members.   Posted a couple bs comments and then started writing essays almost exclusively defending KNC and PRing them.   Then branched out to attack their competitors and still has time to sit on KNC board attacking any naysayers.

Time on bitcointalk:  650 hours since joining.   I give him 12 per day to sleep, eat, shower, shit and shave, and there has been 112 days since he joined.   650 / (112 * 12 remaining hours per day) = 48% of the time that he is awake and not eating/going to the bathroom/cleaning himself Bitcoinorama is on these forums attacking competitors or naysayers of KNC AND pumping up KNC.

Read his first posts.   "total noob"   "just happened upon bitcoin"

Thoughts?

Funny that you posted this thread at the same time I posted this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg2925699#msg2925699

Here we go....

The guy put up a huge post about consumer protection and now hes a shill? Seriously, what the fuck are you guys smoking?

Avalon needs to ship those chips now so everyone is spending more time off these boards.

Notice who gets his A+ rating at the bottom of his OP in the consumer protection thread?

Wait for it....

KNC

(oh and BFL lol- which is safe to add to the list because he knows BFL isn't competition to KNC at this point because everyone hates them.)

I for one think he is legit, and means well.

I think he is well spoken, clear thinking and not rash, and is one of the few "adults" of the new members on the forum.

I also think he has put all his mining eggs in one basket and is very intent on seeing his "home team" win possibly at the detriment of others.  I don't think he intentionally it is trying to hurt the competition.  I just think he is prone to look at KnC in the best possible light and the competition with not the same point of view.  i.e. biased.

Do not assume people here are stupid.   Calling him a shill is polite, personally I think the account is a sock puppet.   I have no problem with consumer protection warhawk but that is not his goal.  Read more of his posts.  Yes, avalon needs to ship (just like they should have shipped our SILVER batch IIs that they are still mining with).

I even included a definition of the word shill in my previous post ITT because I knew someone would bring this up. In case you missed it: Merriam-Webster: "to act as a spokesperson or promoter"

Many words have many different meanings. Just because someone uses another meaning for a word, it does not make it wrong, it just means that perhaps you don't know the English language as well as you thought you did.

You cannot deny that Bitcoinorama is a promoter for KNC...

I'm no shill. I've been totally honest about any affiliation.

I visited them in Sweden and asked Q's you guys wanted whilst considering my own purchase and a jolly to Stockholm.

I met other forum members there. They were there before I arrived bag in hand from the airport. I can provide evidence of flights from the UK to Sweden if you're that bothered.

I have studied an engineering discipline and would like to work in Bitcoin, maybe KnC, but I don't want to receive any payment unless they prove they can deliver for the exact reason I don't want to have any responsibly for your own decisions.

I can say KnC are real and exist as I have been there.

I cannot and will not influence your decision making. You are responsible for your own research and due diligence.

I only share my own research, of which a lot is clearly KnC based as they are work in progress for me and I now have a vested interest.

By that statement I could also be a shill for Visa, Mcard and all card issuers!?

I don't want to see companies fail, I'm just fed up of seeing people ripped off. I believe Hashfast are real, I believe Cointerra are real. I haven't behaved maliciously towards them, but there is a long way to go before they offer people a safe and secure purchase.

Have you ever seen me say anything, anything but positive comments towards Bitfury? I'm in awe of that guy and his distribution means except card.

As for the date I joined, you're looking for reasons to throw accusations. Look at my posting history. I spent a significant amount of time in other threads before KnC were even on my radar.

It's cool to be inquisitive or uncertain, but don't jump to conclusions. I've a specific checklist of what O look for before committing to a purchase and BTC has been abused as a pre-order payment method. Fact.

Agreed. I like a lot of Bitcoinorama's posts and do think he means well. He is biased towards KncMiner, but I have found a lot of his posts to be helpful. He's definitely a proponent of KncMiner, but I don't think he's a shill.

Also, the jury is still out on KncMiner but they haven't screwed over the community yet unlike BFL and Avalon. I'm very interested to see if Knc can deliver on their promises...

For the edification of the readers I'm going to repost something I wrote last year. Since that time I also came across the information that the courts in other states than Nevada, e.g. California, Connecticut (and some others) concurred with upheld this definition even though it wasn't directly pertaining to their jurisdiction and to the "card games".

Dude show me another company that offers a secure payment?

It's open to every western country. There's a reason why they don't bother and it's risk on the side of the people behind the company.

BFL are majorly regretting this, fact is though there are threads and thread here of people claiming they can't have a refund, because Butterfly Labs told them not to.

I'll remove the KnC bit if you think it's a bit sleezy, but whatever that's where my research took me.

I should actually add Bitfury to it as some of his distros now do accept card, but I need to read more into that there.

Of course I'm going to have most knowledge on what I've dedicated most time to.

Do you honestly think I would have known, or had any interest in Swedish Consumer Law six months back?!!

All I knew was they had hot women and expensive beer!

Listen, I'm not saying that you are for certain a shill. All I said was that it was likely, or a better term would be that it is a possibility.

I agree with you ordering with a CC provides more consumer protection than ordering with Bitcoins (duh). I just thought it was ironic that you post something like that where knc is determined as the winner, compared to your previous posting history.

After reading all of your posts for months, is it really that hard to see why someone maybe would think you are a shill?

Here are my thoughts... get a life. Seriously. Unless you're someone else's sock puppet, of course. I have yet to see anyone (myself included) posting as much useful information as Bitcoinorama in this section of the forums. If you have anything against Bitcoinorama use PM's or prove him wrong by showing you're smarter and more informed than him (can I laugh now? ::)).

There had been a high influx of new forum members in that period of time so it's most likely just a coincidence and the long hours spent on this forum can be explained somewhat. Doubt that he's a shill but rather more interested in ensuring a return in his investment in KNC.

Everyone has a bias so you should simply think for yourself and do a bit more research to inform yourself of the market and the potential pitfalls without relying too much on a few highly opinionated members on BT.

Also I do tend to get drawn into a slanging match when provoked or I see intentional FUD being spread about something I know is not the case, and regardless of the sincerity of any intention that's clearly a dumb move on my part. Whatever if you think my intentions are nefarious then double your research, cross your 't's' and dot you 'i's', at least I can be held accountable for encouraging a better research work ethic on that part.

It's astounding how little research people do before investing large sums, and this isn't limited to a few thousand here and there. I've seen biiig money spent stupidly. I cannot believe people are as trusting as try have been on this forum.

Yifu aside, he had a proven product and I really, really liked the guy. Very charismatic, but he is definitely not being honest currently, and the only way to encourage him is to educate yourself on what legal avenues exist.

In any case, truly I'm not a sock puppet or a shill, but I do have a lot of time on my hands currently and for good reason, otherwise I'd be out on my bike all day!

Sensible reply.   You touched on my point.   I WANT to read EVERYTHING in every hardware thread.   I do not want it polluted with long double spaced comments that have an agenda.   I would rather have someone ATTACK and then get to read the response of the SELLER (KnC or AM or Hashfast etc.).   I also hate all the pictures and gifs that make it 292 pages to read when there is really only 30 pages of info.

Just another shill, same with cypherdock or whatever his name is, bitcoinorama posts as if it's his 24/7 job.

Meh, not sure.. but copying and pasting the same WSJ article in about every thread yesterday or whenever it was recently was annoying as hell.. 

I only read half this post, and I'm sorry to say...wait for it...+1.

I was rather critical of KnC and Bitcoinorama at the beginning, but not so much now. But, please keep a watchful eye on them, acting in the most professional manner as possible, while I go and stick it up BFL's ass.  ;D

Oh, and BTW, did I read somewhere that some outfit has chips tied up in custom?

If by the definition you presented... "i.e. a promoter" I have to confess that I am shill for Bitfury, HashFash, and Avalon (shivver).

You have brought up another point, that people need to reply ONLY WITH THE RELEVANT part of the quote and not take more real estate than they need.     I do not need to see that same pic, quoted 20 times filling an entire page (usually I do not need to see the pic the first time either unless it is hardware OR VICUS showing that YIFU had mined with our machines for a month before sending them).   I really want to know what is going on with all these new vendors and it takes hours to read through the crap.

Yah, sorry about that. Just the irony that the journalist duped over a scammy Bitcoin story, was the same guy turning an interest to Bitcoin regulation and subpoenas. Thought it was relevant, turned into spambot. I'll knock it on the head. Peace.

i still do not necessarily agree that using cc's is the best way to go for the consumer.

i believe that cc's encourages an intake of greater amounts of USD to fund these companies and their pre-orders than do restricting payments to BTC.  consider the situation of a malicious company that simply wants to take in as many USD's early on by adopting a payment strategy that facilitates this, drag out a delivery date to "expire" as many of the 60 day guarantees that the cc providers give, and then run with the money.  that's not good.

consider the scenario where the company is legit but then gets a false picture of what the demand for their product is simply b/c there are ppl out there wanting to reserve an order as a put option in case they change their minds.  that's not good either in that the volatility of that order book can cause a company to severely miss their targeted assumptions and result in BK resulting in loss of your money and long lasting support.

at least for a BTC accepting company, the significantly dampened volatility of their order book can be counted on when planning out their production strategy.  this is not an insignificant point.  it also helps the BTC economy by increasing money velocity thru the system.  and in the event of a scam or BK, at least the consumer hasn't lost tax or debt repayment USD's.

I think proposing that CC is bad for the customer is going to be a tough sell Cypher...

I personally prefer using BTC for philosophical reasons, but it is a currency currently based on trust (because it is "cash for the internet").  Cash is pretty risky for any pre-buy.

I am hoping as the BTC vendor landscape matures, more trustworthy players will enter.

The right course of action should be what gas stations across the USA had been doing for years... i.e. a price for the product in BTC and a price for the hardware using a CC.  CC price should be higher to reflect the risk to the company, and BTC cost should be lower to reflect the cost to the consumer.  If refunds are offered, it would be in the currency utilized.

No, the assumption of '60 days' is false, that's down to the consumer to call their issuing bank and determine their level of protection. In the UK it's six years. That doesn't mean I can call fraud as and when I like and get free product and money, it means I'm sufficiently protected. Some card companies state third party payment methods like Paypal and Amazon negate this, so check with your card issuer. A guy y'day stated that a US Discover card carried him 180 days. It's depends on your card issuing bank, and the type of card you have.


You mean to fraudulently deceive a company into believing you're making a sale with no interest to purchase? You know full well about this, as you did it and it's illegal, yet you still try and justify your action in the Hashfast thread as acceptable;


That said I don't believe you fully appreciated the legality stipulated below, but the fact you still try and debate it in your thread as acceptable when you are a representative of a company is madness.

 Article 2, the 'Sales of Goods' in The Uniform Commercial Code.

"A contract of sale is a legal contract an exchange of goods, services or property to be exchanged from seller (or vendor) to buyer (or purchaser) for an agreed upon value in money (or money equivalent) paid or the promise to pay same. It is a specific type of legal contract."



This is FUD, you're trying to justify Hashfast's reasoning for accepting BTC payment, when the only reason they won't accept other forms of secure payment is because they don't want to deal with the aggro of appeasing issuing banks, card payment processors or Paypal's verification demands and sales terms. Any US company can do this, it should be a given, especially in the climate of people loosing monies invested here.

It may take the approval of the payment processors, but the real reason comes down to the fact Hashfast want to raise cash before Cointerra, or X-crowd, they know they are in a desperate race for a limited supply of cautious funding. This has nothing to do with  BTC (liquidity, not velocity!??), and everything to do with you earning your commission, by luring people into a deal that could easily be safer for them to participate in further compounded by the promise to double their hashrate if delayed, by enticing them to forgo common sense and act on impulse, whilst removing the ability to request a refund until way after the delivery date, at which point if you fail, who's getting refunded, and how?

Who's taking liability for all the monies spent? Fact is they're is no guaranteed refund in case of failure to deliver in a reasonable amount of time. Like KnC, and Cointerra the chips have to work first time, this is not the standard iterative process in designing IC components, only unlike KnC there is no recourse however you choose to spin it, and that matters to me.

Call me a KnC fanboy if you like, but I dismissed many deals before I saw one that was safe and acceptable by my own personal criteria. If you are claiming you can match on technical ability and deliver on time, then back it up with a secured payment method and stop promising people what you think they want to hear. To their credit KnC invited who ever they wanted around an open table to ask them whatever they liked and to have what ever proof they required without an NDA.

I don't go into threads looking for rows, but I will call BS when I see it.

Entirely disagree.
Bitcoinorama put more effort into KnC than Cypherdoc has into HalfFast.

The latter gets paid, but the former does not.

IMO, it should be reversed.

One does due diligence in not only protecting his own investment, but the bitcoin community.
The other gets paid to spew nonsense and sound more like Inaba every day.

Shill?
Advocate, for sure.

Yes I did notice the love story between you and BFL, Josh must miss you so much when you do not post something about them hahahahahha

You make my dick so hard when you whisper Josh in my ear.  :-*

Standard Josh or Josh with clown nose??

Could someone list for me the milestones and performance targets that KNC has missed?
I seem to have misplaced my "list".

The only "milestone" that I know they have missed is the one kano is pointing out.   This is not about whether they are legit or not (time will tell us that), it is about how on MANY hardware forums, we constantly hear from the actual owners, then people ask tough questions, then incredibly passionate "independent" parties start posting like mad AND THEN the founders seem to disappear.   Go read through a few of the threads, you will see the pattern.   Yifu was NEVER too busy to answer the 200 tickets that had piled up (we all know now that he just does not give a shit).   No one is too busy during the 90 days after tape out before they get their chips to update 10 minutes a week.    Friedcat is proof of this.

True, but Friedcat had the luxury of development time on his side, there's not much that can be said with companies that aim to manufacture essentially prototypes from the moment they first lay their hands on their chips. This 28nm lot are really racing flat out to produce anything, unnervingly a few want you to risk your funds on their development promises. No thanks.

You only have to hit F5 key on the Custom Hardware page to know that there is an abundance of posts in the sub-forum, and not really any new information, mostly people speculating and/or complaining about various things that are changing slowly, until...... some genuinely novel/useful piece of information comes along, then the churn goes into overdrive as the real miners and the shills re-aling themselves around the latest changing of the landscape. It's the biggest cess-pool on the whole of bitcointalk, at that's really saying something. The desperation and poor behaviour, from shills and miners alike, stinks like a corpse. I am all too guilty of this.

To Bitcoinorama's defense, he has been forthright and helpful to this forum, and this is no way to treat a person who you have merely speculative accusations about due to him seeming to be "too helpful." It's always easy to cast the first stone, but, with due diligence you would see the same things he has seen.

Rather than calling him a shill, why don't you go validate or de-validate his claims before you start calling him out. You are attempting to discredit him for being "Helpful" and "promoting" something he has a vested interest in from a consumer level. So what if he is excited about KNC? That does not make him anything but an eager and excited customer of theirs.

On the opposing end, I don't agree with all of his posts and reviews of companies. He has called some into question and made bold statements without having done the same diligence he's done on KNC. For example his posts thrashing Cloudhashing, which is one of KNC's largest customers, is a bit ironic, but he is certainly attempting to bring the level of 'awareness' to a higher level here and that is admirable.

Keep up the good work Bitcoinorama.

Now "Shill" is tied for "FUD" as the most misused word on these boards.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-EIwxwLq0xuw/UIYdQhbWGsI/AAAAAAABc-Y/XQRWNA1jL4M/w500/I%2Bdo%2Bnot%2Bthink%2Bit%2Bmeans%2Bwhat%2Byou%2Bthink%2Bit%2Bmeans.jpg

perfect example of useless pollution on boards with stupid pictures.  Grow up.   

Interesting.  I just related the other night (Sunday) while some posters were basically "shooting the shit" in some thread or other how, thanks to an associates' relative, I had a dinner companion one night in Vegas who was a professional blackjack shill, who exactly fit that definition.

So, while whenever I read the word "shill," I'm doomed to think back to a skinny blonde in a black dress.  On the other hand, I love the term "sock puppet".  I guess it, really, means someone who is using multiple posting identities.  But I define it as anyone who hides his true allegiance and/or vested agenda.  Whether that's right or wrong.

Besides, when I think of that word, I think of Muppet characters.  And that makes me think of grand kids, and that's a lot healthier, all in all, than blondes in black dresses.

Under these definitions, I don't consider Bc'orama either a shill or a sock puppet.  If we need to slam him with a derogatory term at all, I'd pick simply "fan boy."

Excuse me, but who are you? Another sock puppet?

 ???

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=127751

People don't seem to realize that one word can have many definitions.

There is no right or wrong way to use the word shill (or any other word for that matter) as long as it's in the dictionary.  ;D

Beautiful woman, but this have nothing to do with the present discussion.

You see, you show that you cannot cope with serious discussions. You fail to keep on track. At every opportunity you derail the topic where you participate.

This remind me of the old forum participant, Rarity, which got banned months ago.

Like you, Rarity could not stop to twist the discussions which she participated, no matter what reasonable argument was put against her. It became unbearable at certain point, that she had to be banned to a certain order be restored in the forum.

You are coming near at that point, I am really sure.

It happened before with Rarity and others alike, it will happen with you, soon or later.

Pardon me, but how can you NOT derail such a thread?  ::) We are (generally speaking) simply overwhelmed by the quality of the arguments presented here, supporting the topic at hand...

Auggusto if you gave a shit about the thread, and other people at all; instead of running in and rambling on about something none of us know anything about, read the comment before yours, Loredo's, the thing you ignored; has everything to do with a hot blonde in a lil' black dress, and was quite witty. Moreso since we now know MinorMinor hates images in threads, which is amusing as he started a thread having a dig at me. :P

Seeing as everyone here harps on about Merriam Webster being the gospel of linguistics, here's her definition of a Shill;

shill  /ˈʃɪl/ verb
shills; shilled; shill·ing
[no obj] US, informal + disapproving : to talk about or describe someone or something in a favorable way because you are being paid to do it — often + for ▪ celebrities shilling for politicians
— shill noun, plural shills [count]
▪ He's just a political shill.

http://www.learnersdictionary.com/search/shill


Which I'm not.

Bitcoinorama,

I'm not trying to harp on you anymore. I actually feel kind of bad for you for all the flack you are getting, I didn't mean for it to be this big of a deal. However, I didn't make this thread either...

But, Merriam-Webster's actual website has different definitions than the one you posted. Perhaps the secondary site you linked to is outdated or just from a different dictionary? I dunno. Anyways, http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shill

Again, you can use the word however you'd like as long as it's in a dictionary somewhere. I agree that the definition you posted would also be another use of the word shill.

No, it's actually the other way round...

FIRST a word appears in live language (usually it starts in some specific environment: region, age/social group, subculture, etc.) and THEN this new word (or its new meaning) is recognised and acknowledged by dictionaries (after discussion among experts, where some of them would typically discourage the new word or its new use). But the key point there is that language is LIVE, rather than dictated upon us by dictionaries! And if the word becomes massively used, even its strongest opponents eventually have to accept and acknowledge it. The same goes with Bitcoin! :)

I am tired of the shill debate.    Shills usually are NOT hot babes anymore.   That ended in the 60s.   They are still used in vegas casinos and there is STILL a law where you can ask (and the dealer MUST tell you) if there are any casino employees at the table.   It is still a Nevada Gaming commission law.   Ever wonder how you get a whale into playing high stakes BJ etc when all the tables are empty?   You don't.
Perhaps, I should change my post title to "Why right after the owners of KnC disappear from posting, does Bitcoinorama appear?"   Or "Why does VBS appear and then Ken Slaughter stops posting at a prolific rate"?
Or "Why does evorhees all of a sudden start posting defending the merits of a security when he could not even bother to post anything about satoshi dice while he had shareholders?"

I agree with you, but perhaps I worded my sentence wrong. I think this is better: According to English teachers, there is no right or wrong way to use the word shill (or any other word for that matter) as long as it's in the dictionary.

If you think you can turn in a paper for English class filled with slang and improper usage of words (usage that is not in a dictionary somewhere), then you might be receiving a F.  ;)

Although there are a lot of slang words which many people use every day, it is still considered improper English to use these words- at least in academia.

And yes, I am growing tired of the shill debate as well. Let's just let this thread die peacefully.  :D

You really do look for conspiarcy wayy too deep dude. My posting has zero of anything to do with whenever KnC post. I'm 1,200 miles, and an hour behind them...

I think I have made the point I wanted to and I hope you have heard it.   Just stop posting HUGELY long posts all over the place so that old guys like me can read the threads easier.   That is all I ask.   And when you reply for the 5th time to a post of your own that has an entire WSJ article in it, please delete all the crap so we can just read the one liner that is being added.
Thanks.    And for god's sake and your personal sanity, go ride your bike.   You are spending 6 hours a day on average on this forum, seven days a week.   The only other people as dedicated as you to this forum work for the NSA, IRS and SEC and are being paid to be here 8 hours a day.

I can't currently patella tendinitis massively in both knees currently. :'( It's driving me insane. But I'm certainly going to turn off the btctalk email alert thing. Gn.

Oh please, I sincerely doubt it. Like KNC needs a shill anyway.

This thread is a "perfect example of useless pollution on boards"

What a moron.

Let me get this straight: You and Sam Cole both ride a bike, thus...  ;D

+1

The biggest issue with Bitcoinarama is that he is insanely OCD to the point he replies to every line and thought in someone's rant..  that explains the 650 freaking hours spent since april

someone please slip him a roofie

< thread takes left turn >


"her" definition?  Does she wear a black dress as well?

Merriam refers to George and Charles Merriam, who took over the dictionary after Noah Webster's death.

< / thread takes left turn >

Well I never knew. Assumption being the mother of all fu.. ups. ;)

Bitcoinorama was the first person ever to get in my ignore-list. Tho I took him off it almost immediately. :)

He seems to be a nice guy, really. Except for being a broken record about his visit to KnC (which i'm surpised nobody has taken against him yet) and derailing discussion about him with hot women.

With all due respect. I wasn't derailing the discussion, I was adding to it. If people took the time to read other member's posts as I had, and not jump to conclusions, they would appreciate your criticism about derailing the discussion about me as a moot point.

Read Loredo's post just prior, and give me some credit for an attempt at humour in relation to Auggusto's...

yeah. Tbh the reason I had you on ignore for a while was not because there was something wrong with you, but because I wanted to protect myself from posting a useless insult in response. (Such as my earlier post..) It was totally uncalled for, sorry.

Peace.

I can totally confirm this. He twists everything and provides grand assurances for things he knows nothing about. Then backtracks. Then makes them again. And again. Then backtracks. Then makes them again.

He shapes the way people think about things and entirely regulates the kncminer thread. You post something on there and soon he'll pop up and start whitewashing it away if it doesn't "sync" with the knc party line. "No, everything is fine. Everything is above board. Your purchase is completely safe. But you should check that. But your purchase is completely safe." etc ad infinitum.

He spoils any genuine discussion, derailing anything worth talking about. Then he'll throw in a picture or a video, just to have the last "word".

If there is nothing going on in the knc thread, he'll go and troll the competition's threads. It's all politics to him.

If knc have promised him something for his efforts, maybe when it ships he'll reduce his participation in the forum. Can't come soon enough.

The only people on this subforum with first hand information about KNC are Bitcoinorama (who has actually been to their offices IIRC) and the employees of KNC.
KNC is not due to have their ASIC chip yet according to their own schedule.
Last I know, they never had a date more specific than "September 2013" to ship their devices.
I am waiting until KNC fails to deliver on a promise before I am critical of their business.
I believe their performance targets are optimistic, but possible.

KnC?  I thought Bitcoinorama was a schill for the credit card companies ;D

You know what, I take this all back. Minor Miner was on the right track in the first post.

As of today, Bitcoinorama has spent 717 hours on here since he joined on 23 April
How many hours have passed since then?
2845

Which means he has spend 1/4 of his life on here for the past 4 months. Which forum were you on before this one?

And if MM's figure of 650 hours was true when he wrote his post, that means you have spent 67 hours on here in the past 7 days.

If you could devote that time and energy to something worthwhile!

I thought you were deliberately out to derail discussions for some nefarious reason.

Bitcoinorama, you are not a shill. You are mentally ill. Go and get some help, you have a serious problem.

Try this;

http://www.refreshthis.com/refreshthis.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbitcointalk.org%2Findex.php%3Fboard%3D76.0&min=0&sec=10

It prevents you from continuously pressing f5, but will keep you logged in if you leave your computer idle 24/7. It's quite useful, especially for auction sites.

Has to be kept in a separate page of it's own though, as irrespective if which page you chose to read once set, it will revert back to the chosen page to be refreshed at the given time interval.

Yeah yeah sure, of course you just refresh your browser while you are out chatting to girls, mountain biking etc.

Look at your post history - you post regularly throughout the day 9+ hours. So either you are employed to do this or you have a problem. I figure the latter. Are you autistic? Obsessive compulsive? If you'd admit it, at least people would stop calling you a shill. It would explain the obsessive way you try to control and force the direction of discussions.

He is no shill and the ones who say negative things about him are the shills and trolls.

Maybe he is Sam or Andreas.

Why does this thread even exit at all? The guy is an attention whore. He went to Sweden when most couldn't be arsed to do it (probably because they didn't give a damn) and now we just can't see the end of it. (not that he was the only one either, certainly the most vocal one about it - talk about a life achievement)

He has no job, clearly no GF, so he spends all his time here, blowing smoke up his own back end and generally trolling anyone and everyone whose view doesn't align with his.

He's spent a huge amount of energy trying to convince everyone else to buy from KNCMINER not because he's a shill but because he was just trying to convince/reassure himself about the validity of his own decision. He didn't have the balls to do it before the herd did it first.

Stop giving him that much attention, he's really not worth it.

100% agreed.

He's the same kind of guy who goes round saying "Hey, I used to be in a pop band in the 70's". He can't let it go.

I'm done talking about him completely now.

BTW KS, bitcoinorama has been sending personal messages to discredit you.

When you bust his lies yesterday about why KNC insist on treating their customers as businesses, i.e.


He sent me this message:

I think him calling someone a rampant troll is the pot calling the kettle black!

Anyway, I'll leave the forum. I came here naively seeking genuine answers about miners and what not. I had some really good advice from people when I asked about miner security. But it seems it's impossible to get any straight answers on this forum where people have vested interests.

Too many nutters, trolls and out and out liars. I might as well ask my elderly grandmother and get just as good answers.

I was about to say "Praise the Lawd!", but then I realized you were in fact lying.

Bitcoinorama--I'm just as pro-KNC as you are, and it's been painful watching you twist in the wind. I think you're like a lightning bolt for shill-accusations at this point :P

If it were me, I wouldn't argue with the detractors as much; I've seen you attract antagony that way. Meh. After Avalon refunded me and no one else practically painting 'shill' on my forehead I'm not eager to overplay my hand in the KNC thread.

Your advocacy didn't affect my purchase much though, I verified a lot of it right alongside you. Though afaik you're the only one who visited KNC who actually did a write-up and that was very useful and the most info we've gotten from them at one pass.

Anyway, it's pretty obvious 'Orama isn't a shill, but because 'Orama is bothered by the accusation I think they keep it up. Water off a duck's back, yo.

I won't even bother picking the PM apart, so full of FAIL it is. Just feel free to validate his comments by using the search button, it's all there in the forums. See if anything he says stands. LMAO

Orama does have a point.

His largest detractors have lots to lose if KnC is successful.
 
Let us look at their motivations, too.

Do it.

Bust what lies? I haven't told any.

http://youtu.be/JoqDYcCDOTg

By the way how's KnC's year-long warranty looking now comparatively, seeing as that's your most assured critique?

Let me sum up your position: you don't like me saying that KNCMINER is using a business contract which does not protect you like a consumer contract and that I don't like them.

So, in your mind, I MUST want to destroy them. ::) ::) ::) ::)

You're being silly is what you are, and you have entirely too much time on your hands to think up conspiracy theories.

EVERYTHING I said about them was based on fact/research and on their own BS.

I give you: we're KNCMINER company #123 (that was Kennemar & Cole AB), no actually, another company with #456 (KNCMINER AB), we're making an FPGA then an ASIC, no scratch that, just an ASIC, it will be modular, 2 modules, no scratch that, just one big box, we're talking with category3,4,5 datacenters for hosting (well 5 hasn't even been invented yet and there are only, like 8, TierIV), oh and company equity is actually "gov tax".

You avoid answering or simply deflect questions, don't post any proof of what you say (citations for your previous BS post?), continuously try to derail any conversation with tangents like
[which you just pulled out of your backside as my most assured critique (really?!?)] again without addressing the topic at hand.

That just has "loser" written all over it. Get a life. You should have found a job by now, instead of posting legal advice you have no clue about.

It's fun watching you squirm KS, anyone whose followed the thread knows precisely how hard you've tried to call out the project as BS continuously.

I've never claimed legal advisor, I've just searched for the facts whenever you've attempted to spread FUD, routinely calling you on your crap. I've always advised people check for themselves, never once have I claimed authority.

Now you're trying to scrape what little credibility you can as you aim to wriggle an twist your way from your previous intent. Your stance has always been (after the numerous other allegations were proven to be FUD) that a business contract negates all consumer rights and that has to be why it was chosen. Well it doesn't and I proved that, the same as I disproved all your other theories.

Your attempts to smear are in the thread for all to see, and those that have followed are well aware of your intent.

As for your buddy NoDisco, what he fails to mention is he actually contacted me through PM on three-four occasions prior, so no it wasn't like I contacted him out of nowhere. I have his messages. He asked me for help, I helped as I saw fit, they were reasonable requests, I gave reasonable answers. After which he goes full crazy and attacks me on the forum for no reason.

KS you're a nasty spiteful piece of work, and always have been throughout that entire thread, you're now embittered that Bitsyncom haven't come through with your bulk chips. Believe it or not I take no comfort in that. I want everyone supporting the mining community to get their just share, but you make it real hard to feel sympathy for you, because you're a complete a***hole.

Still Anenome5 is totally correct, that's what the ignore button is for. Adios.

Well hopefully she'll use her stick and smack your ass up.

I too can copy and paste PMs. These were all from the 14th. Nothing here that's out of the ordinary, never spoke to the guy beforehand. He asked for some good advice, and got it. No idea what he's complaining about. Then he listen's to KS's BS without reading up any facts for himself, and goes totally fruit of the loom at me.;

We can all play that game eh?

BITCOINORAMA.COM
Updated Date: 2013-04-12 18:53:17
etc.

^Your usual baseless drivel. How many months has it been that you failed to actually quote me and quote your rebuke? Starting to lose count.

You can't substantiate your argumentation so now you've switched from not answering my questions to denigrating me to calling me troll and now you make up fantasy tales about my state of mind regarding business you have no clue about. (oh, and let's not forget the insults)

Talk about grasping at straws.

KS, just give it up, I'm not interested. You're on ignore.

There's just no need for you anymore. The flaw in your plan to disprove the legitimacy of KnC was always going to be that they were legitimate.

Countering your continuous barrage of nonsensical statements, and false claims just strengthened their position, as they always did exist, and have played by the rules, legally, whilst giving people what potentially maybe the fairest deal so far; the foresight to create a machine that would behave competitively, at a future date, with secured payment choices, during an uncertain, and justly untrustworthy point in Bitcoin mining's history. If they succeed.

I just got fed up of scams and bum deals and pushed for a solid proposal that kept people's funds safe, yet allowed an experienced IC design team a shot at what we all want, an end to the BS scams and delays. I never forced anyone to do as I said, I just said what I was doing, and I'm nobody's fool, I shared what I thought was helpful throughout one of the most bizarre periods I've ever witnessed. There's a lot of jealousy and negativity on this forum, but not from me, and I don't care to experience it either.

I hope both of our orders arrive on time, but I have no interest in communicating with an angry little man who just won't quit.

First you say it's fun watching him squirm, now you say you've got no interest and he's on ignore.

WHICH IS IT BITCOINORAMA!?   WHICH IS IT!? :P

TL;DR. (Wall-o-words'o-avoiding-to-answer.)

Substantiate. Put actual quotes, discuss.

I'll just leave this here for you to ponder:

Lol, and the rest, it's a shame you don't actually do any research KS, you really should click that Citizen's Advice Bureau link. Never have I said that consumer rights are complete when dealing with a business sale, but am I protected, sure;

Except that (now) your whole argument (which keeps changing) depends on whether the court will decide you're akin to a sole trader or not (which you still haven't proven).

Unless you ARE a registered "sole trader", in which case you're a business already, which makes your comment irrelevant since I'm asking the question wrt to the B2C nature of the trade when claiming to be a business to obtain business-only goods. (got that?)

So, in a B2B case, does a private person have B2C rights or B2B rights? (it's not a completely accurate description of the issue but maybe it's clearer for you).

https://www.gov.uk/set-up-sole-trader

My argument has never changed. I brought up the sole trader aspect in the very beginning of the KnC thread.

It was you that brought up the consumer/business angle when I declared I was purchasing on ccard? Confused much?

If you register as a sole trader, you don't pay VAT. Why wouldn't you register as such?! Quite frankly the way mining is headed with respect to legislation it makes complete sense to.

You can also claim other business expenses, such electricity (yes cheaper electricity), associated hardware and products necessary for a business to function. In addition you host your machine at home you can claim some of your rent back, though for specifics you need to speak with an accountant. I'm not an accountant, nor am I a lawyer, never have I claimed to be. I do care about people getting ripped off and sharing information I have found. Always stated that. What's your excuse? You've no interest in helping others, just determined to have a petty fight as long as you can prove me wrong. It's pathetic.

You have a bee in your bonnet as you gave a lot of unsecured funds to Bitsyncom and are quite rightly upset.

Though several things strike me as weird;

You're so disposed to the intricacies of consumer protection and secured purchases, yet flouted all of that for your own purchase.

You've even consulted lawyers (if that's even true) on the legalities of making a purchase within a company you have no intention of buying from, yet seem blazé about your own predicament with Bisyncom. Would lawyers' advice there not be more imperative for your own circumstance and relevant and helpful to a wider disgruntled audience of the community on Bitcointalk?

You seem to forget your whole hearted efforts at trying to dismiss KnC as a scam from the start to protect your own interests. You tried you damned hardest to stop people from purchasing there and it's in the thread for all to see.

I don't care where people purchase from as long as they inform themselves to their best abilities and take responsibility for their own purchase, where possible I want to see respectable vendors value their customers, not aim for a one shot chance at making easy cash and disappearing.

The fact you dismiss the advice from the UK Citizen's Advice Beaureau, is quite frankly, laughable. Go away and concentrate on Bitsyncom and where the hell your thousands of dollars of chips are.

As I've said before I take no pleasure in seeing people suffer from foul play or those that have not received what they ordered. I do want people bulk chips to arrive as they have already paid for them. I already factored in them being present in the network prior to KnC being successful, if that will be the case. You take pleasure in other people's misery. You're a nasty piece of work KS.

Look. The rodent finally admitted he is a KNC shill. Just a few days before they are supposed to ship, as his PR shill job is done. Oh the integrity!

the value of the hardware section of this forum is about as valuable as the conversations of "what do you think the price with be friday"

In my own words; my response in that thread;

If it's useless, why do you feel the need to reply?

I never said he was already on the KNC payroll, but as I said in the other thread, I would not be surprised if he is in line for a free miner or two for this PR/marketing efforts. Payment in kind - you understand? He is totally impartial with a job offer on the table? Right. I'll believe that. He hasn't done a single thing to "encourage" people to buy from KNC. Right. I'll buy that too.

I even sent him a few private messages (you can see them above - oh the integrity!) when I joined the forum, as he seemed to be the go-to guy when it came to KNC. But yeah, he hasn't influenced anyone. I'll buy that.

His forum is infested with shills and paid trolls.

....rama, ..cake etc

There are also shill=>hater conversions

.....erupter, ...gie

Lol

Sorry had to show the PMs as you were behaving totally out of line. I had to show you asked me reasonable questions, and I gave you sincere answers. That I had shown no ill favour, and provided no justifiable reason behind your current nastiness directed towards me. For the little I knew of you, you're behaving out of character for someone I had just courteously helped for no reason other than kindness. I'm still utterly confused and angered you're behaving this way hen I took the time, my time to respond. Have KnC offered anything under the table? no. Would I like to have 1 miner for every buyer that's bought based on using my words in their decision process? in hindsight fuck yeah. Did I know they were going to open up an affiliate program? no. Am I part of it? no. Have I stated I absolutely will not be part of it until they prove a working product? Yes. Have I stated I don't think they should run with one until they have a proven working product? yes. Is it my business what they decide currently? no. Am I expecting payment currently? Flight and accommodation would damn well be considerate. Did they pay for that last time? No, and yes I have the card statement to prove it. They mentioned something about rewarding members of the community and opening it up for the forum to decide at the point of production at the open day, but I haven't structured my habits around that, thank. $7k for 3/4 months of being on this forum is peanuts. Believe it or not I've followed this forum as it's been an exciting engineering race, and is 21st century prospectors dream. You couldn't make the BFL/Avalon stories up, neither could you about the engineering feat KnC have decided to tackle. In hindsight it's both madness and the only sensible solution for any legitimate competitor. Aim for the front as it's where it's going anyway. I've been brutally honest in this forum the entire time, every damn prediction I have made about every company has been spot on. Why the fuck am I being persecuted, still? At the time of this thread starting I was being given beef about being pro KnC, and being critical towards Xcrowd, and Hashfast; well; Where are XCrowd? How many times has Hashfast changed it's terms of sale since this thread started, and never told their customers? Noticed this addition a little over a week ago, I have an account set up on changedetection.com tracking changes of terms on most manufacturers sites; on the 9/11 when they changed their terms 4 times in one week;


I'm not the one being devious, above is written consent that a company is awarding itself the power to change and/or negate all terms of sale without forewarning to any of it's customers, when they have been changing their terms of sale the entire time without forewarning any of it's customers, and involved in grossly questionable marketing practices whilst actively taking all steps to remove payment security and accountability.

The crown for being a safe and honest choice for people here has been open for anyone's taking. Why will so few companies attempt this feat? Why shoot me for pointing out what nobody else focuses on. The only people who are pissed off are the ones who are no longer making money from screwing people over here. I like Cointerra, they are making progress, but their chip estimations are theoretical best case. Bitfury has a product in hand and I have never said a bad word about him. One of the first to congratulate Punin in thread, on the day. I mention KnC, then; shill this, shill that because I paid them a visit and stood up for an honest business, and pointed out the dishonest shenanigans occurring elsewhere.

Has KnC taken massive strides into proving everything I said was true? What the hell is the problem with being honest on this f**king forum?!?

Ok...

I don't believe, in those hundreds of pages, that he claimed impartiality. Maybe I'm wrong, as to be honest I skipped about 50 pages after I moved, but He has always since his visit been very positive about KnC, and has flown his bias in the open. He also advised caution. Being happy with a company, or even wildly optimisitic (which he has not) isn't the same as shilling for them.

For an example, which hasn't been shown on this forum but still applies as an example, I am a fan of Glock firearms. I love 'em, I recommend them for experts (not novices), and I rarely miss an opportunity, in the correct venues, to discuss them. I'm certainly not a shill as Glock has never paid me a dime or a round. I don't have the money to buy their product currently, yet I still love the weapons. When asked for a recommendation on firearms, they are the SECOND gun I recommend, even though they are my personal favorite, due to the twitchiness of their decocker. A novice could easily shoot themsellves in the foot.

By comparison, Bitcoinorama has been very positive in his estimation of KnC, yet has consistently advised that you do NOT purchase from them in any manner that can't be reversed or legally disputed. This doesn't make sense if he's in on a scam, now does it?

I don't know what started this snit, nor do I care, but damn if you're gonna attack somebody, at least get your facts somewhat in line.

Oh, and just because I know you're gonna go there, Yeah, I like him. He was cool to me from the second day I was registered on this board, he's intelligent and easy to converse with, and he usually makes good sense.

If they did give him a miner for his efforts, he earned it. If they deliver, and he takes the job, I wish him nothing but success. My only beef with him is he got to go to Stockholm, and I didn't. :)

God. So much rhetoric and inciting words with false substance.

The accusations and points raised towards Bitcoinorama all seem valid, and especially so to most people without prior knowledge of the respective companies, but damnit anyone can and should just go through his post history if feeling suspicious and think for yourself about the validity of his posts. Think for yourself.

Is it not true that support for different payment methods indicate different prospects for a company?
Or that Hashfast changed its terms? Is that not true, or not important? Perhaps they were just bored. "Aw, I have nothing to do. I guess I'll just go and change the terms and conditions for fun!"

The answer for the title is obvious (no), but the question itself is highly irrelevant. Take cypherdoc for example, he is a known shill for hashfast. But so what? Yes, the difference is that he has incentive to put the company in a good light. But does that mean there is no useful information there? We do live in the 21st Century, learn how to separate the signal from the noise. Again, think for yourself.

You don't have to believe anything, and please form your own judgement. But for all the visitors, please note that the lowest common denominator is what usually gets passed around, and that threads and posts with flaming phrases, like in real life (ads), are mostly by and large useless.


 :-\



(Fucking hell, I don't have anything to do with this. I've just lurked too long and can't bear to see Bitcoinorama being worn out by multiple non-stop trolls when he, at least in my eyes, contributed much useful information for this community. We need more people like him if anything, and ironically he gets his thread against him. Speaking of this community, it's slowly bearing a striking resemblance to 4chan. Minus the coarse humor, and with more shit, less diamonds. )

+1

Nothing would change if Bitcoinorama was once and for all proven to be or proven not to be a shill.

Hell, 'orama could have even told us in his first post he was an official online representative from KnC. And if KnC never showed up to deny it, nobody would have doubted it. There would be one useless thread less and probably 50 pages of BS less in the KnC thread.

as i said in my endorsement thread, i am no longer getting paid by HashFast.  so that's good.

the only thing i have against Bitcoinorama is that he tried to say that i had a malice of intent b/c of my cc cancellations with KNC and BF when i had only held those measly orders for a measly 2 wks.  i still can provide those receipts if i have to to prove this.

and now, we're seeing tons of ppl doing the same thing and considering it normal practice and self protection as they move their orders to cheaper vendors to save money.  i believe he was using me to attack HF.

but as i said before, i think he has provided useful info that i myself used to initially place my orders with KNC in good faith.  

Yes he is a shill.

So what's he gonna do about this mess?

holy shit guys, you're wasting so much precious life time with your silly internet discussions/accusations  :(

sorry, what?! why is this being dug up again??

Wild stab in the dark, or actual email correspondence:

Hashfast: Why is the KNC thread always top of the Custom Hardware board and hardly anyone shows any interest in our thread?

CypherDoc: Don't worry, I'll spread some FUD, continually post negative comments in the KNC thread and try and pick a fight with Bitcoinorama. I'll suggest Hashfast as being better in every way by copying stuff from your press releases.

Hashfast: Thanks CypherDoc, we knew we could depend on you...

Cue defensive post from CypherDoc proclaiming his integrity and stating something about his reputation.

LOL? Revive this topic for this? Wow...

Desperation is a foul stench indeed.

au contraire.

given the sequence of events, i am brimming with confidence.

I can't imagine Hashfast got their money's worth out of you.

Are you saying he is PAID to post?

 ... in fact cypherdoc's shilling was so bad I had to put him on ignore and made a point of ignoring anything relating to Hashfast.

 Have zero interest in whatever it is they are working on or putting out because of that dude. Same with Butterfly Labs because of Inaba / Josh Zerlan. Yifu / Bitsyncomm / Avalon ? Don't get me started...

 Competition is getting way to fierce for their douche-baggery to be rewarded and supported.

 Bitcoinorama, obviously being involved with KnC, seems to be a reasonable guy, and I can't say anything bad about him.

 </0.02BTC>

Yet none of what you call shilling ever occurred in the KNC thread. How odd.

On the other hand there was no shortage of guys like you who trolled the HF threads as well as mine.

As for ytter, he's just an angry guy.