Bitcoin Forum

all finished

Sent ฿1.2 = 20GH/s
TxID: 57522744b98beabefd4b0bb5a5db2830c4c97248a4ef715f63ab38d42f042ff9
Payout Address: 1AfjH6s7E4M4qi7YcZmSPZoq5dqF1G1NTy

Im in for an upgrade!

1 - I am on miner 1
2 - I have 2 shares
3 - I am upgrading 2 shares - 0.8 BTC sent
4 - TXId - c6cd5a88b29acdd425874c8c3ba544bc6508db8aa2b7f3ae9d4ff12f8f5cb25d

Just got a refund from a groupbuy that I no longer had much confidence in unfortunately.
Checked my other groupbuys and seen this upgrade opportunity.

Every cloud has a silver lining and all that!

Payment sent

1. Miner #4
2. 1 share owned
3. 1 share upgrading
4. https://blockchain.info/tx/9301893302c1565071f3c737e7deee4ed25563da651d6edcc50f753cb9c79ad5

Interesting! I have 1 share in miner #4, will upgrade for 0.8 BTC. Sending BTC soon with the format you requested. Thanks.

by bi-weekly, do you mean twice a week or every 2 weeks? i suspect every 2 weeks... but doesn't hurt to ask :)

also: for those already using the service, have you broken even yet?

Here it is (0.8 BTC)!

1. Current Miner(s) you have shares on: #4
2. Amount of current shares: 1
3. Amount of shares you are upgrading: 1
4. TxID for payment: https://blockchain.info/tx/1846405083a74691d5097b6fb1a6d3be54b314b2d139c7628345172d676a623d

You need my original payout address for miner #4? its
15dfWkzMMWSFHET5cLtuFoWxAb9iJE3ydR

Hi I am in for Upgrade

1 - I am on miner #1
2 - I have 4 shares
3 - I am upgrading 4 shares - 1.6 BTC sent
4 - TXId - https://blockchain.info/tx/fd8dc22df10961dade0dace6ef3ee7b298ee0f75b0c1c993dbba1eb8e5ec96e1 (https://blockchain.info/tx/fd8dc22df10961dade0dace6ef3ee7b298ee0f75b0c1c993dbba1eb8e5ec96e1)

Please confirm.

Hi Wh , i'm in for upgrades ...  :D

1) Miner #3
    Miner #6
    Miner #7
   
2) Miner #3,   1 share owned   (x10 Gh/s)
    Miner #6,   4 shares owned (x20Gh/s)
    Miner #7,   2 shares owned (x20Gh/s)

3) 7 shares upgrading for a total of 5.2

4) 8a73a573941f22361477c4867435e745f20371964dc124d8b51a771b0d8b863d

Please confirm me,
#bit_p

ty   ;) :)

Hi,
I have shares on Miner 4.
I have 1 current share.
I want to upgrade 1 share.
The id is 78bb74c0425d8391d0ef5a78b53fbc34818bc7d35284587fce25a3d4ddb552e0.
My payout address is 1AsvKChe2888AvKwNjPNPHDuGidezMQA6L.

Thanks
Please confirm.

paid 0.8 BTC
id : b324474da3c15c99fae28a4002308219f646701c37d6fea303428182766dafba


have share in miner #5

1 share pls 
@ 1.65 btc

Tx-ID: e9bc82019fc7363addda938a0d5efa1e97342eeab90f7637e87a3cc05253ec3c

Payout Adress:

17sZzbgHWMHiPRELjYC6mdsgrd35XdKJ7K




The above is my original purchaseof 1 share, for hashfast miner 2.


The upgrade of 0.4 btc has been sent to you just now.

Tx-ID
5da29edd96c97eff94549ee65112be48ffe7738b2ce6b04b8e8a6f653de3de0d


Please confirm.


Grim

Sweet!
I'd like to double my 10 shares on miners #2,3#. I'll be sending 4btc your way as soon as my fresh funds arrive ;D
Monday or Tuesday the latest  ;)
Cheers!

So 1 Share cost = 2 Btc , Per share hashing at @ 40Gh/s , expect November delivery,,is this correct ?

Cant get access to group buy calculator.  Just arough idea of payout per share, wont hold you to it of course im aware of all variables.

Ok read through it. Looks good. But if I put in hf miner on the tgb calc it just shows red so how did you work yours ou?  That tgb calc is scary :o

I understand that but I meant uf I chose hashfadt on the genesis block calculator it comes up as negative no breakeven

http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/7aaf5b3f8d

So I was just wondering how you did your calculations?

Ok thats good to know. So where do you get the info from?

Sorry for knit picking but just want to be 100% because id like to buy a large amount of shares.
Also deluvery expected end of november and will all the miners will be running together or kept seperate like in you calculations I?

But what about the difficulty and future diff , also btc/usd rate where would you get that from?

Also I meant would all machines hash together and then dividends paid out or just fron the ones we buy into?

If i purchase 2 shares tonight which miner am I buying share of 5 or 6 or 7 ? 

How many shares are left before this Group buy closes.

Ok thats fine you have cleared it up.


Thanks

Please reserve me 3 shares

1. Miner 1
2. 3 shares
3. 3 shares to upgrade - 1,2 BTC
4. Will be added

Thanks

if i buy a share at 1.2 for 20gh/s on 7th miner , i can upgrade to 40gh/s for 0.8 btc? total 2btc?

Witch miners gives 20Gh/S per share? All of them?Wich miner is near to be paid out?

Paid, thanks!

Alrighty, 4btc on their way for 10 shares on miners 2,3.
Receive Address: 1BuP66qLT5FfxMoxbEFNcNyzYsz7ubdbdi (same as before)
TxID: 5bca69dd4ff7699667631582ff1598c81c1266978f5caf49480c8b214a4c5c15
Thanks for waiting!

What is the status of this GB? Are there still shares available?  If so I would like to pick one up.

Alright, 1.2 on the way to you.

TrID- e218c43c928708f6cdf072ca06b564042a848c16a829d7e3f03da7348d265760

receive address- 1DAXoynA9hMQ1fY6nPeBCA2YnmLjptaaev

Hi can you put me down for 3 shares please at 3.6BTC?
Could I possible send payment monday morning?

Chris

Upgrade, please!

1 - Miner 3
2 - 1 Share
3 - 1 Upgrade, 0.4 BTC
4 - txID https://blockchain.info/tx/f89679597d10758f92374795d4131afc4561c5e2670e57932977229ad29c330e

please confirm!
thanks :)

perfect :)

How many shares are left , also BTC price is up , will the share price be corrected accordingly ?

Reserve me one!! :D

I will pay you in a 2 days max :) How do I find the TxID on blockchain?

Please reserve me one.

Reserve me for 2 Shares @ 2 Upgrades.
Which totals 4 BTC.

Waldo, simple question: why people buyin GH/s now? As I see in earnings calculator, there will be no profit. For example I've bought 50 GH/s, they cost for me 825$ in Miner #3, here is the picture for this case:

http://i.piccy.info/i8/eecf608500cb4a22082b7a95e41ee066/1382025671/21129/632803/123_500.jpg (http://piccy.info/view3/5293100/6c658f5d28d55f78a1e45a68275aa03f/)http://i.piccy.info/a3/2013-10-17-16-01/i8-5293100/500x206-r/i.gif (http://i.piccy.info/a3c/2013-10-17-16-01/i8-5293100/500x206-r)

I paid the share:

TxID: https://blockchain.info/en/tx/f0a77b541620acb720078bdce55c71d19d7612389fe12919ed0f078ebf563b88

Bitcoin address: 1JNisued6ke5wDjcQhMiRLAbBDYEfyStQk

1 share paid: Transaction ID: 3705b90f94a67723de23b4f767d4ada8782b47820dd847b939cdeba9bb5fbce4
my btc address: 1pmaet9iJVcKwMzA2n1V5yR2m6SRrzPyG

can I get a refund of my .2 :)

 8)

we any chance to get miner protection program?

Shipping dates updated on hashfast.com - mid november

p.s. have a question: all our miners covered by miner protection program?

Any of these still available? If so I'd like to reserve 2.

depends... what's mpp cover? definitely interested.

what exactly is it? i went to your site and couldn't find any info on it.

Hi! I'm interested in 1 share. What should I do?

Transfer the bitcoin to your wallet and post here my address?

Thanks!

Hi!

I've made the transaction of 1BTC for a 20GH/s share.

My address: 17rVWXrV3dsMyQaeWkCvzGCDbYKuZnqaor

https://blockchain.info/es/tx/d664dc08a4311356340206e652e0007ecf70a370b0e1d22ec051e1b5d4c1be51

Andrés Morales

Any news on when Sierra will be shipped?

simple and maybe stupid question:
OP said the miner is already paid....

so if I buy 1 share - this shareholding come true, even if the maximum of 60 shares is not reached?

So, what's the situation of the Sierra shares buyers?

When will the Sierra mining start?

:-/

Novemer would be great, December destroy ROI - and I thought this could be a good investment :(

Why so late?  :(

I thought it would be operative early November. As Vanicon says in December there would be no ROI…  :(

i read the miner protection, didnt know u could pay with btc, did u pay with btc or fiat.

Ignoring all these naysayers, I shall take a share good sir as my ROI is not all about trying to get ROI $ within a month!

questions? 1btc for 20GH/s ? or are you bring down the price?
Thanks :)

Any update from HashFast?  8)

I'm thinking that I buy another share, but little afraid that miner will come up sometime in February...

Are you going to reduce the BTC price and maybe UP the GH/s (currant BTC Price @ $650).?

We have any news from the miners? It's late november already.

I think u need to bring the price down if you wan't to sell the shares ???

We will receive the miners a few days before December 31 and we will not recover even 10% of the investment and not return us the BTC, because only return the BTC from 1 January

wonderful.

They said we would be mining the last week of October

wonderful wonderful.

Men of their word, great professionals. HashFast for ever!

One month ago I've purchased 20GH/s for 1BTC. I thought the miner was ready to mine, and when I confirmed it wasn't I asked you privately for a refund. You said no, and looking at your terms you were right because it was my fault that I didn't understand properly what you offered (maybe because english is not my main language).

I post here what you announced the day I bought the shares:

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/2793/kc25.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/268/kc25.png/)

And here your terms:

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/3498/3f1p.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/32/3f1p.png/)

You posted "Ships in November" and we are already in December, so the machine wasn't delivered in the date you announced. And putting "All miners paid" explains that you already bought the machine with your money (it's yours) and what you're offering is a share. You don't needed the money to buy it. And looking at your terms you must give me a refund (minus 3%) because you didn't accomplished what you announced.

So please take your 3% and give my money back: 1HvPyoG8uPr5G4B4oMuNDKAMXy4vJJKvtS

Thanks!

Thanks for the pic Malvino,

I've been asking for the return of our BTC, at first they said "in late October" but then finally wrote "Ships in Nov".

Well, I want my BTC back please.

Regards.

+1 :)  8)

wish they just refund it back. I think I was in this group buy too. 3.85 BTC total. I just wish I get BTC back. waldo, do something!

I just came to this page after a long time. I even forgot about it, my 1 share here. The idea of getting 3.85 BTC back is very tempting!

One thing is the terms between Hashfast and you, and other the terms between me and you (coiningsolutions). I made a contract with you, not with Hashfast.

You specified that the miner was paid (with your money) and you sell shares of this machine that would be shipped in November. If it's not delivered you'll refund the money (-3%). Is what you said in this post and it's the reason I gave you 1 BTC. So we can resume that in some points:

- Miners were paid:
If that is true you'll still have the BTC the people gave to you. Maybe you lied? If not why don't you make a refund? What are you doing with our Bitcoins?
- If the machine wasn't shipped in November as you announced that's non-delivery. If for you "non-delivery" is 2014, 2015 or 2020 you must specified that. On the paper, no miner shipped on november -> non-delivery -> refund.

I don't know the terms of other group buys you made, but for this one things are very clear… Aren't?

I'm with malvino on this. You bought the miners and then made promises to us. You said you would refund us if they didn't deliver by the time you promised, they didn't deliver by the late November as you stated so you should honor your word and refund us our btc. You will still get the hashing power from the refunded shares plus the 3%. Our agreement was with you, not hashfast. I realize that it sucks for you but unless you bought the btc used to buy the miner for more than $125 per btc in you are still coming out ahead. Do the right thing and offer refunds.

I just do not get which part of the name "group buy" you guys do not get. Yes it does suck that HF did not deliver yet.

Just please stop whining!

+1

+1

Hold on hold on... are we in a GB or are we just buying GH/s from Waldo? Waldo :) it doesn’t make sense you buying the miners and then saying it’s a GBuy :( ??? does this mean we don’t have a say in case the miner is no longer profitable or if they don’t deliver on time? I’m a little confuse now ??? Sorry to say but we are all in these GBs together and something is not adding up with your GBs ??? Please don’t be offended, i just dont like to beat around the bush.  What realy going on with our BTC are you getting RICH of our BTC ??? 8)BTCBTCBTC

If he had not explicitly said that he would offer refunds or you can choose to wait it out in the event that they don't deliver on time, I wouldn't be saying anything. We are going by the terms that Waldohoover set out for this group buy.

On the first page of this thread he even welcomes someone that had received a refund from a different group buy but seems to be refusing to allow us that same opportunity.

The miner was prebought, it isn't like he needed our btc before he purchased it like some group buys. He was takinga risk when he purchased it, this is part of the reason that he charges a management fee and a 3% refund fee, he is trying to reduce his risk. Unfortunately the miner was not delivered on time, so he should bea man of his word and refund us as he said he would.

not happy.
 :-\

+1000  :D

*All Miners PAID -> Not a group buy -> A share buy (with the terms you set out)

This discussion is pretty pointless:

In case of non-delivery:

• I (waldohoover) take no responsibility for the possibility that HashFast does not deliver. I (waldohoover) have done what I consider a thorough due diligence but as we all know, you can never 100% guarantee anything when it comes to pre-orders.
• Refunds will be given in case of non-delivery less 3% for management of the Group Buy.
• This group buy will be refunded if the miners are not delivered- share holders can elect to wait further.

Misc.:


It look like a Group buy to me  :( but he does say he is not 'responsible'.

This line implies that if the delivery is late, refunds will be offered or you can choose to wait

Contracts + implying doesn't = good.

Non delivery can mean that HashFast doesn't delivery in time, and the hashfast date was end of December (from when they first opened orders)

Nice! :)

Is that written somewhere? Why should I know that? When I bought the share no one told me that… If that where specified I wouldn't buy the share…

alright alright... where's waldo :?)

+1

haa, what would this world be if you would stop your whinings... so #BiT_pOL you just want me to  bend over and take it ???  :o We have to keep our account admins accountable and honest :). Group Buy Account Admins are making a living of bro's buying shares. Account admins should welcome any complaint and have good customer service for there share holders. BTC tomorrow can be worth $2000+, Account admins are not holding $100 dollars any more.
 
Hi waldo, can you please reply to some of the comment we share holders have ?
Thanks Bro  :D  8)

I know where our Bitcoins are…

Why did you change now the refund terms in this new share buy, if those you put before where so clear (for you)?

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/2324/qc6k.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/513/qc6k.png/)

Waldo, now I'm very serious about that.

Show me your arguments on the paper and looking at your own terms why you don't have to refund us… Don't say "Hashfast will refund us on 2014" because that's not specified in your terms. Read them and explain me why I'm wrong.

I didn't find any, and yes, your fault was not include the date of the refund, as you made in your new share sell (why did you change the terms?). But that's not our problem and we bought a share of a machine that would be shipped on november and if not we'll get a refund. Be honest and refund us, you know we are right.

This is not an explanation at all.  You are deliberately avoiding a real response our legitimate concerns.

If you had stated explicitly that refunds would be issued if Hash Fast didn't deliver by Dec. 31, this wouldn't be an issue.  The fact is that you didn't state this, you stated that the miner would be delivered by late Nov and in the case of non delivery, refunds would be issued with the option of waiting for the miner.  


It is not as simple as that! We are making an agreement with you, not the company supplying the miner! You purchased the miner with your own money and then offered shares to us. You called it a group buy, but you bought it, not us. You sold us shares of your miner.

The point that that he is making is that you supplied an actual date for the KnCminer GB refunds. In this GB you only stated the expected delivery date. By not stating an actual date for refunds you lead people to believe that the expected delivery date is also the refund date. This is definitely the impression I got, and I'm sure that many others also believed this when they placed their order.

I now realize that trusting you with my money wasn't the smartest thing I have ever done, but you need to respond to our concerns in a more concrete way than the way you have so far!

I completely agree with you yomamanodros… Waldo is giving us once again his childish answers ignoring all the things we are demanding…

agree :!)

And?????

Dude waldo is not going to give u your money back bcus that would mean he would have do refund everyone else and he probably used your BTC to buy another rig :( so best thing you can do is just live with it for now and see what happens with KnCminer :( sry bro

I thought waldo already paid for this device ?

I Believe so :) but KnCminer is late and everyone is growing inpatient :( 

Thanks for the reply waldo, I'm not trying to offend you and yes I do believe your using our btc to buy more miners (Unless you have 1000BTC in your wallet to buy them so often) but I don't really care how your doing it :) honest:!)(as long as I get what I payed for:) and I don't care if the miners are late  and I know that its out of your hands. Your making a living out of us trusting you with our BTC and your doing a goooooood job at, Honest!) But don't think I wont speak my mind and tell it like it is (I don't care if you get offended). I am a very forward guy and defend people for a living so im not afraid to get my hand dirty. So again you should welcome any good or negative feed back from your BTC share holders.
God Bless YOU Waldo!)

wow ~ ok, do what you think is best for you! but I have 7.5 BTC invested with you. If you want to give me a refund that would probably be best and you can just keep 1btc for all your troubles :). you can send the btc to this address 1SYFcusAXnhqsaE14Sx4ZrtDxu5bG6X9Q . Please let me know what you would like to do waldo.  

TxID: 26c0f80efd5eab993b25714b2d6edacc2e507fd68baa68c5e84a4992c14a1637   (3BTC)

TxID: 32635a75c1750e66e48210add30c91d27233bec8e0ed786fbdcdfc4a9cfaec1e  (4.5BTC)

Thanks for all you help.

Stop your childish manipulations and bitching, it's boring to see new posts in this thread, opening it hoping for some valuable info and finding this nonsense, day by day. You will not manipulate your way to some BTC, there's 0 logic in your writings.

Nope! this is not true :) I am happy with all of my GBs :) I just speak my mind and I don't let anyone bully me around :)

I now just hope they don't deliver!

I have the same amount as you and am confident that we either get the miners running or we get the refund. Badgering someone when they're in the same position as we all are is relatively confusing to me. Hashfast, for whatever reason, just doesn't have the business sense that we're used to with other miner outfits that we've been lucky to do business with in this emerging industry. We all jumped into this GB because we were willing to trust this company (HF) that they'd uphold their end of the bargain in a timely manner. Timely is pretty much gone, so we get what's left. People check back to this thread for ETA info on our shit, not to see a few jump on the manager that is trying to do his best w/ his hands tied for the duration of the month per the terms.

Waldo, the one who's bored with your answers it's me. I ask you once again and all the people is defending you to tell me where in your terms is written that the refund will be on December 31st. If you show me that I'll shut up. If you write some terms you must fulfill them, that's the way contracts are made.

And? What is your answer?

Silence…

(or wait till December 31st, but this isn't an answer with valid arguments)

In case anyone cares...Hashfast had two updates today for their progress.  IMHO, it's marketing hype, but they state that they are starting volume production of mining systems now.

https://hashfast.com/second-tests/

https://hashfast.com/hashfast-announces-fastest-bitcoin-mining-chip-in-the-world/

They are the next Bfly labs.
Now we need to invest in their next big Thing
https://hashfast.com/hashfast-announces-fastest-bitcoin-mining-chip-in-the-world/

HashFast has said that the units will have a 25% higher hashrate than originally stated.  Will this be reflected in our shares?

 :)  ;)

I almost hate bringing this part of the thread back to life again, but after reading so many comments asking for a refund and nitpicking over the wording of the offer, I just cannot help myself.

When waldohoover posted the offer, the terms were pretty clear.  He collects BTC from each person who wants to participate, he uses that BTC to purchase a miner, he then runs the miner for as long as there is a profit (or max 30 months), he then divides any BTC mined per share to each person.  He also said he takes no responsibility of HashFast does not deliver.  That statement is in no uncertain terms.  He has absolutely no control over HashFast.

There is a statement that refunds will be delivered in the event of a non-delivery.  However, "non-delivery" could be interpreted to mean "delivery by the date the manufacturer stated" or it can be interpreted to mean "it is never delivered".  In any case, while even I cannot state in certain terms what qualifies as non-delivery, logic would suggest that there was a shipment guarantee date.  HashFast definitely does that.  What folks have said was the guarantee date was December 31.  If it was sooner than that, then waldohoover would likely have already asked HashFast for a refund (after polling the shareholders).  He certainly has nothing personally to gain by sitting on his hands.  Logic would therefore suggest he cannot yet request a refund.

In any case, I think it's really poor form to pick over every word in the offer.  You're not dealing with a large corporation here with a team of lawyers who drew up a formal purchase contract.  It's a group of individuals informally going in together to have a go with a miner and, I think it's worth noting, purchasing only a "share" of a miner that might otherwise be too expensive for a person to buy and operate.

Frankly, I have to tip my hat to waldohoover for going through all the effort to set up a place to run the miners and do all the work.  He  had to put a certain amount of money on the table just to provide a place to make this possible.  That's money he is out of pocket.

So, please be respectful to the man and be patient.  He'll either have a miner working before long or you'll get a refund.

The point we were making is that the terms were not actually clear at all.  He stated from the beginning that all miners were already paid for.  He wasn't collecting money to buy miners, he was collecting money to reimburse himself.  He called it a group buy, but the title of the thread stated that the miners were already paid for.

Also, there was no where in the terms that stated that Dec. 31 was the guaranteed delivery date, the only date mentioned was the end of November.  When I bought my shares I was under the impression that delivery was by the end of Nov. or refund or waiting was an option.  Had I known the actual guaranteed delivery date was the end of Dec, I would have taken my money elsewhere.  I passed on other GBs with much better terms for late Dec early Jan deliveries for one that I thought would refund me if it wasn't delivered by the end of Nov.

I was much more upset with waldohoovers lack of communication than I was with not getting a refund.  Once we started asking for clarification of the terms, waldo stopped responding with any details at all.  Personally I would have been fine with it if he had just said that he made a mistake by not including the manufacturer's guaranteed delivery date. 

I am willing to wait and I do appreciate what waldo is doing, but he is being compensated for his work and does have a responsibility to those of us who trusted him with our money.  He is getting 3% of every single miner that he runs a group buy for and that is a significant hashrate when you add that all up.  This is why it is important that we hold him to the terms that we all agreed to.  GB coordinators are being trusted with many thousands of dollars and should act like professionals when communicating with their customers.  This is a customer service job as well as a tech job.

I agree that this discussion has gone on too long and this is that last I am going to say about the issue.  Hopefully the miners are not delivered on time and we will get our btc refunds, but if we do get our delivery or the only refund option is US$, I have confidence that waldo will do a good job hosting our miners.

I totally agree with yomamanodros :) well said bro. i do hope waldo hears our voice and concerns before more and more people start complaining about his lack of communication and service and I will hate to start comparing his company to Butterfly Labs :(

I think it depends on when you first saw the post. It was not purchased at the very beginning.  He collected orders until he got somewhere about 90% (I guess) of the slots filled.  Anyway, there was a number of slots and once he passed that threshold, he ordered.  He might have marked it as paid, because he did pay for it -- this is an important indicator to let you know the hardware order is in the queue!  And how did he pay for it? It might have been out of his own pocket, or it might have been using the BTC for shares received.  If I recall correctly, the cost per share * number of shares was more than the cost of the hardware.  In other words, I think there was a small profit per share, which he might have used to allow himself to order that hardware before filling all slots.  I don't know what he did with the extra BTC.  Maybe he put it in his pocket.  All I do know is that he didn't hide anything.  I could do the math and see there was a small premium over the actual cost of the hardware.


I never saw the December 31 date, either, until the expected date came and went.  But he never made any guarantees of delivery by the end of October or November.  Originally, I think the hardware was expected to be in at the end of October.  Whatever the case, the offer clearly said he cannot be responsible for the fact that the manufacturer does not deliver on time.  Had you purchased directly from HashFast, you'd be in the same boat you are now.  He's not misleading you here.

Nobody doing a group buy from a hardware manufacturer can guarantee delivery of the hardware.  Any group buy that says they will give you a full refund if the manufacturer does not deliver by some set date is not being entirely truthful.   Either that or they have very deep pockets and do not need your money.  If the latter, I doubt they would even offer a group buy.

Put yourself in his shoes.  Suppose you wanted to do a group buy like this.  Suppose you need to collect at least 90% of the funds from others before you have enough to order the hardware.  Then the manufacturer fails to deliver the hardware on time.  What would you be doing?  Will you pull out BTC out of your pocket and return it to everyone?  Remember, you didn't have enough money in your pocket to buy the hardware in the first place, so likely you could not.


Well, I honestly don't know what you want him to tell you.  He's one man setting up some miners and working with a bunch of yahoos from all over the world to make it happen.  He wrote the terms and conditions up front.  I understood them.  Most people understood them.  What is there to clarify that you honestly do not already know the answer to?


Well, he's not being compensated if the miners do not show up.  Well, except for that 3% charge that he'll take to issue a refund back to you.

Your point is valid that he should answer questions, but it's the types of questions and, dare I say, inflammatory complaining that is not something he should have to listen to.  He answered every question.  The problem is people did not like the answer.  The only guess I can see as to why people are complaining is nothing to do with his terms, but the fact they are angry that the manufacturer is late on the product.  So late, in fact, that it's likely not going to prove to be a significant ROI.

However, you cannot blame the man at the helm.  He did his job: he collected money, he purchased the miner, and he's waiting ... fully ready to go the day that box arrives.


So, you do understand he's doing the best he can.  I don't even know if the refund policy would be for the BTC you paid or the US$ equivalent of the BTC you paid.  I suspect this depends on the purchase terms with HashFast.  Arguably, they should return BTC, but they might be in a similar boat: they used that BTC to buy the hardware and don't have BTC to return.  But, they can re-sell the hardware to somebody else and then give a refund on it.  That suggests a US$ equivalent.

11 days for the miners

12 days for refund

I bet we will receive the miners  31th at 23:59 and Happy New Year, dong dong dong...

i preffer the miner whit MPP :)

Explain me please what is "on time". When you put in the terms "ships in November" what does it mean? December, 2014, 2015?



This is not a game. We're not some friends that put money together to buy beers. This is a business, Waldo is earning money with that and also we want. And when you make a share buy you know there are some risks. And the most important thing is that there are terms that must be fulfilled. I read the terms and if I agree I put money there. If you read them carefully you'll see were are right. Maybe it was Waldo mistake not make them clear, but that's not our fault. I asked him several times to give me an argument that shows I'm wrong, with no answer… (oh, yes, there was an answer: wait till December 31st)

I believe everyone understood that waldohoover was purchasing a HashFast miner. Everyone also understood that waldohoover was not the manufacturer. What he echoed in the posting was the manufacturer's claimed shipping date; there should be no misunderstanding on that. If you want to know the time after which the shipment is considered late and subject to a refund, then one had to consult HashFast or just ask waldohoover.  Did you ask about this when you purchased shares?  I'd guess you didn't.  Given what BFL did to so many people, I would think you might want to ask about that.  In any case, the date after which the miner was considered "refundable" was apparently December 31 and that was likely published on HashFast's web site.
[/quote]


I agree it's not a game, but I think you're barking at the wrong person. You should be upset with HastFast, not waldohoover. He clearly stated he cannot be responsible for the failure of the manufacturer to deliver. And, indeed, they did fail to deliver.  So if you put in 10 BTC or so, you lost a lot of potential revenue.  Had you held that 10 BTC, it might be work US$7200K today.  Had HashFast delivered as they advertised, you might have been able to earn 10 BTC (or more) through mining.

The problem is quite simply that HashFast failed to deliver, and rather spectacularly so. Had you put your money into BTC, stocks, or a different miner that did deliver on time, you likely would have made money.  I can fully appreciate you being upset with the fact that you lost the profit potential, but this is not waldohoover's fault.

malvino,

Considering the news from HashFast of late, it looks like you might just get more angry. It would appear from this page (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270363.msg2894446#msg2894446) that Simon Barber did say HasFast would refund BTC and that the BTC was guaranteed. There's a more colorful dialog here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=391251.msg4212321#msg4212321).

But the letter that went out to all customers requires them to give up all rights if they want a refund and the refund will only be the USD equivalent of what you paid.

Nobody is happy about this situation, but don't take it out on our leader here. He can't control the company, but it does look bad.

Personally, I'd say request a refund and say no to the release. Nothing in the original purchase agreement said customers had to sign the release.  It's better to leave options open.

That said, I'm not sure what folks want. Refund or wait?

Really? hahaha

I paid something in BTC and the refund will be in USD

This whole story is a joke. It´s like "hey guys! we steal you but... smile!"

Paulej,

The thing is that I made business with Waldo, not with HashFast.

I'm graphic designer. Imagine you want a logo. And I make an offer: logos for $100. I'll design them with a MacBook Pro I've already paid and will arrive in November. You pay me $100. Apple is late and till now didn't send it. You ask me for a refund and I say it's not my fault. It's Apple. As you say you must be angry with Apple, and only Apple is responsible for the situation. Really?

And in that time you see me buying a HP and making the same offer: logos for $100 made with an HP I've already paid. You don't have money to make a refund but you have it to buy another computer… Nice!

I'm struggling with this claim. The thing is, he did not sell the miners. Rather he sold shares of the miners. He also made it clear that he is not responsible of Hash Fast does not deliver.

The important point here is that he was just offering to run the equipment for you and others. It was you who took the risk on Hash Fast delivering.

Your Mac logo example isn't right. Sure, if you have no computer, you can't make logos. However, if you bought a different computer you could make the logos.  With the equipment used for hashing, he is not buying the boxes and leaving you to dry. Rather, he is collecting money from people and using that money to buy the miners. Sometimes, he puts a little of his own money in to buy miners, too, which is why I think he marks them paid.  He indicated somewhere that when he gets to about 90% funded, he buys the miners.

You really shouldn't complain to waldohoover. I'm sure he is as unhappy with Hash Fast as you are. He cannot control what the company does.

There is something important: What "All Miners PAID" in the title of the post means for each other…

malvino: All Miners PAID = Waldo paid for the miner with his own money and then is selling shares.

paulej: All Miners PAID = He is collecting money from people and using that money to buy the miners. Sometimes, he puts a little of his own money in to buy miners, too, which is why I think he marks them paid.  He indicated somewhere that when he gets to about 90% funded, he buys the miners.

Who's right?

I know for sure that I saw a note once where he said he would go ahead and order the miners once a certain percentage of shares are paid.  It might be some of his own money used or it might be that 90% of the shares covered 100% of the actual cost.

However, whether the miner was paid for by him or those who bought shares makes no difference.  Either way, you purchased a share of a miner that was to be delivered at a future date.  He clearly said in the offer that he cannot be responsible for the manufacturer failing to deliver.  You knew there was a risk that they would not deliver.  This happened with BFL and Hash Fast had no products on the market.

What Hash Fast said was that they would refund the money if they failed to deliver.  Right now, they're saying they will only return the USD equivalent of the cost, whereas they apparently said they would return one's BTC.  I posted a link above to one of the founders saying he guaranteed buyers' BTC.  So, Hash Fast lied.  Waldohoover made no false claim, nor did he make any misleading statements.  You would not be complaining if the machine had been delivered on time.  It was not and there's nothing waldohoover can do about it.  If there is any one part of the offer that should stand out in your mind, it's that statement where he said he cannot be responsible for the fact a miner was not delivered.

In any case, it looks like you will at least be able to get a refund for the USD equivalent of what you spent, if the others in the group want to get a refund.  I don't know what the group wants to do, but waldohoover has just a few days to submit a request for a refund.  He might even opt for filing a lawsuit against Hash Fast, since they did apparently guarantee buyers' BTC.  However, this is really up to him (as the recognized purchaser) and, to a lesser extent, those who contributed to the pool.

Anyway, I fully appreciate your frustration.  Not all investments work out the way you plan and you should know that.  There's nothing misleading in what waldohoover offered.  Just sit back and enjoy the ride.  I'd guess everyone would love their BTC back, but Hash Fast likely does not have the funds to return it.  Another option they do have, though, is to provide even more hashing power.  I doubt they'll do that, either.  Likely, they're going to go broke over this fiasco.

You bought a share of a product HashFast was selling. Everything else is payment details, the fact Waldo payed in advance was just a safenet and convenience for shareholders to be certain their money won't just stay at Waldo's wallet for a while and then returned back. That payment in advance was a main reason I joined Waldo's group buy and not some other. This is a group buy, we bought HashFast product together, paying through Waldo. Please stop whining and read opening post once again, everything was and is clear about this.

So, in this current state of uncertainty, are we leaning towards going the usd refund route? Even though it's a major haircut, anything we get back now will be a bonus and I really don't think that waiting a month or two for upgraded products will pan out. Instead of bickering about the past which can't be changed, I'd like to see some brain storming about what our particular outcome is going to look like. And yes, I've covered the main HF thread but am interested in what way we'll roll.

If a USD refund is sought, I would also suggest that waldo not sign the document HF is trying to force on customers that releases HF of any obligations. I believe there is and should be further dialog on a full BTC refund, given that the founders of the company did make those guarantees.

That said, I can be persuaded either way.  If HF really can deliver more hashing power to make up for lost time, that would be cool.  I have strong doubts now, but I do think the company had good intentions.

So, are you really still trying to sell shares in this? I noticed the thread title has changed to BTC.5 = 20GH/s.  Aren't you attempting to get a refund?  Why would you still be attempting to sell shares in a miner you are actively trying to get a refund on?

When the current refund being offered is only a very small percentage of what we originally paid, this seems a bit shady.  If someone bought a share today and then we got our refund in 2 weeks, would you refund their entire BTC amount or the discounted amount that everyone else would receive? 

This GB should be closed if you are seeking a refund.

Please give us an update on what you are doing.

No news from HF yet?

My mistake, let's hope for some good news soon.

did we file for full refunds (btc 4 btc) in this group by yet.

What about this lawyer? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg4377215#msg4377215 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg4377215#msg4377215)

take te equips and wait for the MPP. becouse a lwyer its too expensive and the equip mine 50% faster than they predicts... its not the best but may be is te best retourn on our investment. (srry for my crepp inglish)

Tell them that we are expecting them to pay back the full amount in BTC or we take legal action. And they need to decide till tomorrow - those fu*** fa*****

Are they actually shipping?

They are doing shit. Promising delivery... fail... not paying back and then setting us under pressure to take dollars

Waldo, I know this is additional work for you but please step-up in these critical times. I know that you are not directly interested what will happen next, but for many of us this is very important. Thanks for understanding this.

The only proper thing to do for you is to organize official voting what should we do, and to PM all group buyers in your HF group buys to take part in the voting. This is important because people who do not follow forum closely will get email notification to take part in the vote. For those who will not vote we have to assume they agree with the majority, we can't wait forever for them to make up their minds.

There's also another lawyer which can be a valid option:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg4377215#msg4377215
He is not that expensive as the first one you've mentioned, he takes 40% of the money above the official refund sum of 5,600 US$, but he is less experienced than the first one. I can help you sorting proper lawyer information for the voting if you want me, just please PM. There should be 3 options for the vote:
a) Take lawyer A (all info about the lawyer A)
b) Take lawyer B (all info about the lawyer B)
c) Do nothing and wait what will happen next
There is a possibility to add option
d) Accept HF refund request and wait for 5600 US$ per machine
but I personally think nobody sane would vote for this, let the others say if we should put this option in the vote at all.

Please organize the voting as soon as possible, if we are late and HF goes down in the meantime we could be left with no compensation at all!

Better call Saul!

im down to vote to join the law suit, even at 40 percent cost,  do some damage to these motherfukers. more importantly if it wins,it can change the way these company do bussiness and help the mining community for the greater good.

My first move would be to wait for the advanced miners but since they can't be trusted to ship ever and since they're acting in such an unfriendly manner while displaying poor business acumen w/ shitty customer service, I'm all for nailing their asses to the wall and coughing up the 40%. At first this was all business but now it's personal. Offering someone a throwback usd value for something that is now effectively worth 5-7 times more is downright insulting. Holler if ya hear me!

Argggh ;-)

I can see three choices:

• #1 do nothing and hope for HF to deliver (chicken option)
• #2 ask for usd refund (lame option)
• #3 go with the suit (kick ass! option)

I doubt that waldo will get the reply from all the shareholders but if we were to vote I vote #3.

Yeah, seems like a good idea. We could do a 3 day voting window. And then, based on participating users / or number of their shares, how we should proceed. Those who don't vote miss the fun.

bitcoin is not a currency under US laws. then we can not ask a refound in these terms. better get equips (if we go to trial we get usd dollars less - lawyer paid :(

Since it is not a currency, then it can be treated like gold. Hash Fast said that guaranteed your "gold" and said they would return your "gold". In the postings, they made it very clear that you would not be out any BTC if they failed to ship by 12/31/2013.

  holla

The problem is that scamfast gave a deadline for deciding about USD refunds. Deadline expires today 

We never agreed to that or any other deadline, they are the ones that obligated themselves and missed the deadlines. If we accept their US$ refunds under their terms we are doomed - we reject the possibility of realistic refund and ever receiving the MPP. Why would we do such a thing?

I really can't care less about what they say. I am just reminding what waldo wrote.

For the moment I doubt any MPP or timely delivery. I say let's sue them. Although it sure will require some time and energy from waldo (I guess?) and it pretty much depends on him if he will want to get into this.

Really, who cares about an arbitrary deadline they set. They missed their promised delivery dates. They only want to lure people into giving in to their offer, so they're fine. IMO, ignoring their deadline wouldn't weaken our position in a court case.

To me, it seems like we have a pretty airtight case here. These fuckers are so far behind on delivery and AFAIK, the product hasn't been shown to work 100% for any significant stretch (if I'm wrong, I retract).
We already have a historical timeline to show what coinage we would've gotten had the damn things been delivered on time but even then, they might've went bust right out of the gate and we'd be stuck going back and forth with these guys and we'd still be in a similar situation as we're in right now. It's been nothing short of a comedy of errors on their behalf and I'm being fairly conservative with that description. I'd be willing to bet that if we (us and other customers in a mini class action) leaned on them heavy enough that they'd settle out of court and while we may not get our full coinage back, I bet we at least get USD X3. If not, go for the jugular.

+1

Don't submit to their push to give you cash $$$ we are all losing BTC so... why not do something good and sue these people. We should all set an example to any ASIC company/Group Buy account holders to NOT mess with BTC customers (we should do the same thing to Butterfly Labs).

You should make a pole out of it and see what the vote say ?

I am sure if we try to search we can find some good lawyers. It's a decent amount of money to be made!

Do we have some updates/news?

So does that mean in case they really ship that we'll get more miners because of the miner protection ??

I hope so.

will we be expecting machines for this gb or the other options

is this thread batch 1 or are there other batches mix in here as well

sooo any update?

UP!

so they didnt ship our gear?  what do we do if the gear gets to us before the lawsuit happens, are we just going with which ever comes first.

Gear won't get to us, Waldo asked for a refund almost two months ago without consulting us. It says in the opening post that he had to put that decision for a vote, but also says that he can change the terms of the opening post as he sees fit. You haven't (just like me) noticed that sentence in the fine print, and nobody bothered to quote the opening post for a reference. We are at the mercy of his judgment in this.

We agree on that.

Let's see how all this ends up, it's still to early to expect only the negative outcome.

I suppose that still nothing ...  >:(

any updates?

So this went completely belly-up then?

Texas court granted a Temporary Restraining Order against HashFast for about 218 BTC in refund case. Regardless of how the case turns out they've been ordered to hold onto BTC of this amount till the end of the case.

http://imgur.com/a/OLbc8#0 (http://imgur.com/a/OLbc8#0)

This is not surprising.  Considering the IRS now treats bitcoin as property (in the same class as gold, basically) and FinCEN recognizes it as money, it is an asset that will get legal protection.

218 bitcoins for them is likely not a big deal.  But, I bet the total number from all customer for whom they did not deliver products as promised is way higher.

Personally, I just don't understand why they are behaving the way they are.  Even if they were unable to deliver as promised and even if they could not repay the money owed immediately, anyone with integrity should communicate and discuss a repayment plan.  I suspect most customers would accept a payment plan vs. going to court and arguing and potentially forcing the company into bankruptcy.  Plus, being responsive and also shipping products earns a bit of goodwill.  If they really have products to sale, they'll sell them that way.  As it is, I would not buy anything from that company.

Your post are always non-informative, meaningless, like you are trying to sabotage any constructive discussion. What did you want to say with all this text that you've written? You wanted to inform us that we should not buy anything from HF? Thanks for the advice, if you've haven't told that to all of us (heavily burned from HF) we may have made that mistake all over again.

The point of my original post, and the reason I've posted the link here, was to illustrate that when somebody fights for his own bitcoins he manages to get favorable court order, and get the final court decision in two weeks from now. On the other hand, when somebody doesn't really give a f*** about other people's money, from which he already took 1/3, he gets nowhere with the plethora of excuses why things are staled.

Edit:
Now additional info about that court case is published:
http://digitaljournal.com/pr/1819167 (http://digitaljournal.com/pr/1819167)

itodd,

There is a message to consider in what I wrote.  I'm not sabotaging a constructive conversation in the least.  Rather, I was trying to offer things to consider as a part of the dialog.

My points were:

• Getting legal protection in court for Bitcoin is not surprising given
  
  • The IRS classification of bitcoin as property
  • FinCEN's treatment of bitcoin as a financial instrument
• 218 BTC is not a sizable sum for hashfast, so they can manage that
• They likely could not manage the thousands of bitcoins that might be requested by all customers (forcing bankruptcy)
• HashFast did themselves a disservice by ignoring customers and not working out a repayment plan

ping?  :-\

Thank you for reaching out to Ray again.

Came here after a long time again. My total investment here is 3.85 BTC.

Hello all,
There we can see our progress.
http://www.coiningsolutions.com/share-holders/share-holder-news/hashfast-news/

Nice, now we just sit and wait for the Just-us system to do its job. Heck, I'd be really happy if I could get ~half of my coins back from this one. Anything would be a bonus at this point.

Update?  >:(

Well, that's about as new as the last semblance of the last future bull run. I know you're doing right but the rest of this seems like a bust. I assume most s-holders would like to have some closure at this point.

Hello any news regarding our investment?