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Now first of all I live in spain and I'm wondering if someone has ever paid taxes with money acquired from signature campaigns here. I made a decent amount of money a year ago because campaigns were giving 0.03-0.04 per week. I wouldn't really know how to pay taxes if I need to, would this count like a job and how exactly would someone prove they got their bitcoins from signature campaign , seems quite difficult.

Edit

A few options are presented:

1. Don't say anything, it's virtually impossible for any tax agency to find out what you have. However eventually they might be able to and you could face serious problems.

2. Mark it as freelance work and a tax rate will be applied to it, up to 50% (reported by an user) It seems that they wont ask for much information or proof as long as you are declaring it intentionally.

3. Simply spend bitcoins or any other cryptocurrency that you earned without ever converting it to fiat because cryptocurrencies are usually not taxable in most European countries.

I wouldn't bother. The amount you can earn from these campaigns are quite small, even for Legendary ranks.
I don't think no one will harass you for such a unusual income that no one is sure about.

Bitcoin is largely unregulated in the world and it will be difficult to regulate it once they make a significant effort.
This amount is also pretty small, so I don't see why someone would really care, as the whole signature campaign economy is very small.

But then again, I am not a lawyer, I have no idea.

It all depends on the currency in which you keep your money. If you have transferred your bitcoin to Fiat then you have no chance. The entire amount is taxable. This is your income. But if you store this money in a bitcoin wallet, you have no need to worry. Prove how you got your income is not difficult. But I think it won't be necessary.

As usual, it depends on the country. A country that has enshrined the taxing of digital currency in their constitution would tax on it, maybe during conversation to fiat if they can't ascertain when it was received - off course, because it is decentralized.

There will be need to worry if the coins are also in the wallet except he does not intend to use it which I doubt.

Don't bother to pay it if your government doesn't bother you too. Most of the banks doesn't consider crypto currency as a source of income that's why when you have to show them your sources of income you have to make an another job that looks legal to them with a reasonable salary because if it's too big they might lock up your bank account if it is not reasonable. And by the way it really depends on what country you are in, so just stick to the law and everything will be fine.

We don't know what your country saying about this since we do have different regulations, just like here in our country where in we are not yet obliged to pay tax with our earnings in bitcoin  because there is no such law regulating on it so we are still free to do what we want in our earnings

I actually did some research last year out of curiosity, and in my case it would fit in the category freelance work, where depending on the amount, a tax rate of up to 50% applies, and I am sure that it is taxable in other countries as well. In other words, depending on the country you're living in, one is obliged to pay tax over their signature campaign income. The only thing that might be different is the amount of tax you need to pay. Of course, what the government doesn't know, they can't claim, but legally paying tax is a necessity. Best thing to do with signature campaign earnings is to either spend your Bitcoins, or to just accumulate them and spend them later on in the future. Actually a good question you brought up OP!

The problem is that it gets really messy, specially considering that I have been doing this for a year when you could earn a lot of bitcoins, 0.04 wasn't much then but now is around 300$ not to mention other giveaways and things like that. I was pretty sure it would be something like freelance, however the problem I have is how to prove you did it, I didn't save screenshots or transactions at the time and 50% is a ton of money. I have probably traded/bought things with them along the way too. I will eventually consult a lawyer or someone specialized in tax payments.

It highly depends. If you in all honesty declare your income as per its value in your local fiat currency, and the tax department has no reason to believe that you're gaming the system, then not much will happen. I don't know how things work in your country, but while documenting may turn out to be a smart thing to do, it might not be a necessity when declaring your taxes. I have been doing freelance work myself a few years ago, and never have I needed to include any documents or proof of payments or whatever. All my tax declarations happen online by entering all details in text format, and then I digitally sign it, and that's it.

What was the price when you were earning? If it's less than the income tax threshold at the time then you weren't earning enough to pay tax, I'm not sure that the future value is relevant. Obviously every tax regime is different but then I'd be inclined to sell and pay capital gains further down the line.

As for proving it, depending on the thread your registration will be written down and you have that blockchain thing to prove where it came from.

Well, yeah I do just want to declare my income to get rid of it. A lot of people told me the same as you, that they wont really ask for much proof as long as it's not an insane amount of money which it isn't.


I did some research and in Spain, bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency is basically seen as an investment, not a currency and it seems that I basically have to declare it even if I never converted it to fiat. I will dig further to see what I can find.

I think by participating in a signature campaign there is no need to pay taxes, because signature campaigning is not a job. I can say this (signature campaign is not a job) because I've read a post made by a famous campaign manager in this forum and he said like that. If your country is serious about this, then let's prove you participate in the signature campaign in this forum, I think it's easy, not difficult to give a evidence.

It is money in return for effort. That makes it income. That makes it taxable if the amount is high enough. Even if you put in no effort, if money is coming in to your possession and control it's taxable in most places.

It's time crypto fans got real. Just because it's 'on the internet' does not mean laws magically evaporate.

I think its just the same as money earned from trading and is also taxable. The only difference is, trading is a passive income while signature campaign is categorized as job because of the payment returned for every services. Taxation process depends on the country you live in.

I am not well experienced like you in this Bitcoin talk forum section but my suggestion whether you country accepting payments those who are earning money through Bitcoin if so better pay taxes because otherwise, they will charge more fund from you.

I am alos not paying any taxes yet for my earning through the signature campaigns but my earning is not a huge from signature campaigns so I never filed any taxes regarding this and I hardly ever convert bitcoins into fiat so I think I don't have any problem as long as I keep as bitcoin.

For now we don't need to worry about taxes but I know Spain is known for all sorts of tax and I think you could only get taxed if you exchange your coins for fiat and the bank knows your account is used for crypto transactions it might be obliged to report to relevant tax authority who are most probably going to request an income tax should be deducted from your account but for now this is just a speculation.

There are 2 questions you are confusing here - whether taxes are due and whether your government can catch you if you evade taxes. I do not think that there is any doubt about taxes being due. It is income however you earn it, whether through signature campaigns or a real job. About enforceability of the law, you have to take a call. The taxes due on your income may be small, and is it worth taking a risk and evading taxes on that amount?

Cryptocurrency is not yet taxable even if you earn it through signature campaign unless there's a law that regulating cryptocurrency on your place. But I think if you just withdraw it and government see your transactions that's the time you will pay taxes when necessary.

In my country no need to pay tax if I got income from signature campaigns, because don't have any regulations about that.
So depend of your country, if there's no regulations or rules of pay tax from signature campaigns, I think is ok no need to pay taxes.

i pay fee for every transactions on my local exchange but i think that was not tax and whatever way i have to choose to earn bitcoin i never pay tax from my bitcoin earning but i wasn't ever heard that there was people paying tax to their government from signature campaign income

I have given income tax on my earnings through signature campaigns. Since, I have earned enough. So, that has brought me in tax bracket in my country. I have given advance tax. So, no one has asked the source yet in my country. But if asked, I have the records of signature campaigns and btc tx id to justify my income.

If you are to disclose your income then you are liable to pay tax. Its simple as a freelancer earning money from work done which can either be online or offline the fact is that you are working to generate income. In tax laws of countries where personal returns is allowed to filed with the relevant tax authorities such as US or other countries, you are by default compelled by law to disclose all your income whether known to government or not. The only way our is based on your country's technological ability or their consideration of bitcoin whether they would be able to track your income from 'freelancing' activities from abroad which is the kind of situation like this you can then decide and find ways to remit your taxes.

tx id can not confirm the legality of your income. How can you prove that this money paid you to sign? Bank documents required to have count of the payment. But in tx id there is no such graph. From the point of view of the law it is not proof. But the tax authorities are well aware that the turnover of cryptocurrencies is not regulated now and therefore will not require you to confirm. They will be limited only to accounting figures.

For taxes to apply to signature campaigns, it may fall under the category of income tax. If you were to declare that you have been gaining income through signature campaigns, you would then have to pay a portion of it (depending on what is prescribed by your country's laws). This would however depend on the amount of your earnings which is somewhat complicated because in fiat, the rate would constantly change - unless your country tax crypto earnings or holdings. The proof that you have been earning from signature campaigns would be the transaction records on the blockchain however the matter of licenses or registration of the business or service is another matter. If it were up to me, simply don't declare your bitcoin earnings. You won't be evading taxes if in your country, crypto or btc earnings is not taxable unless you would constantly exchange them to fiat.

Different laws for every country, you should see you finical and tax structure into more detail then looking for answers here. Local exchanges often tend to introduce fees but this is not the tax you will pay, mostly tax is calculated upon the income at the end of year. So, one should recheck about taxes in their own countries. Also, there are few countries which have ban crypto and few which made no tax on crypto, So where are your country laws can only help you to find ans to this question.

I think tax from signature campaign is hard to identify if how the total amount one person earned from the campaign. It is easy to declare this is all that I have earn from signature campaign nothing more, nothing less. Although tax can help to improve the economy but not now is the right time to apply it in bitcointalk.

This isn't a job because you are not being paid a fixed sum every month for your service with a view of continuing it for unknown time. I think the best thing you can do is to declare this as your business income. The income which is being earned by you by doing some work for your clients. You don't need to create any legal entity for it just make it a business as a sole properietership.

We consider that extra income in working in the signature campaign, yeah you can't conclude this as your job aside from you a decent job outside because your not receiving the fixed price amount at the end of the month and it depends on the company that you working on in signature campaign. Here our country you can pay tax when you convert your bitcoin to fiat and then cash out to the remittances in that case you are already paying tax. Our government did not impose a law regarding this income of cryptocurrencies so, we can enjoy whatever we want to our money.

Government wont really sue us out when it comes to these crypto incomes since those amounts are just really small to consider. The thing here is that you would able to declare it out if you have already accumulated large amounts of bitcoins? If a certain law into your country do still have regulations when it comes to taxation into this sector then you don't have any choice but to include it out but for me its much better to hold it off.

Many of the campaign participants are into this problem. In my opinion, Income should be determined from the amt received* the rate at that point in time. Eg: If someone receives payment=0.01BTC when BTC rate is $15000 then his income is 0.01*$15000= $150. Now if BTC inc or dec. that should be considered capital gain or loss while selling this BTC for Fiat.

It is very hard to impose tax on something that cannot be regulated. Thus, bitcoin being a decentralised type of currency falls into that category but this still depends on the laws of the country that you are staying. If the government creates a law or amends a current law prejudicial to bitcoin's existence, they it may be taxable. As of the amount, I also doubt that they may be able to trace it, considering that you receive your bitcoins on a separate wallet.


I agree. Every country has their specific view regarding cryptocurrencies. As for Japan, they see it as an asset and as something that can be beneficial to the public whereas for Malaysia, their government warned about transacting cryptocurrencies since it involves some shenanigans that may cause your investments to be stolen. This all varies depending on the country that you are staying but I personally vote that campaign signatures should not be taxable.

It really depends on where you reside. If the signature campaign is a sizeable amount of your income and you're cashing to your bank it'd surely catch some attention. But I don't think signature payments warrant that much of attention from tax authorities anywhere.

Depending on your jurisdiction, you might have to file for capital gains once you sell BTC and have the the money from an exchnge hit your bank, that is if you incurred gains ofc. Saying that you got the bitcoins from a signature campaign might be setting their price, or not. It's all too vague at this point but I don't think you'd have any trouble for not filing signature payments for taxes, at least for as long as you store them in BTC.

as I know, the income tax is paid once a year, specifically in my country, the amount of tax we have to pay is the result of total gross salary in a year, reduced by monthly deduction, then multiplied by 15% (for $ 4k - $ 20k earnings) and it is all calculated in the form of currency. Well, if this is also applied to the sig camp, who is harmed?. After all, this is not an official job regulated by law.

Are you going to declare it as a job or as an incentive?

To answer your question why not just volunteer yourself and consult and a staff from the taxing bureau of your country to know what's best for you.

This can help you to have a calm mind and at the same time you are paying tax.

  It would be logical to pay a tax for trading on the exchange, for example, for a certain volume of trading in dollars or based on the number of transactions and their volume. In subscription companies usually give tokens whose prices are not known, based on which indicators to pay tax?
The only option for taxing, this recognition of the Crypto-currency at the official level and the application of regulation of this sphere by state structures.
  In the future, for example, they can prohibit participation in signatures by ordinary people, it will be done by accredited companies and they will already pay taxes.

It seems to me that it is not logical to pay tax on the stock exchange. Today you can get income and tomorrow you can get loss. Who is supposed to count. The exchange is not a tax authority and it has to do its own business. If you take taxes from users of the most reasonable would be to levy a tax on the capital. This can be done by banks that are part of the legal economy and participate in the regulation of the foreign exchange market.

Exchange could become an agent for the government although the problem is the valuation or the base that should be use for the assessment of tax and besides this is only possible if a user will trade his/her coins into Fiat since cryptocurrency is viewed as an asset other than cash.

i don t belive so but if you want to be sure then talk to a lawyer

it's your bad mate, not all bitcoiners live in the same area, we are from different places around the globe, that is why i'm thankful that in my country crypto is not a big deal, even thou it's making it's name and foundation to be legalized but still hoping that same thing happens that there will be no such excessive amounts of tax paying. we pay taxes through exchange sites Via Express shops, so not a big deal also, they are fair for a transaction fee. :D

Well, we do have different areas and if in their country paying taxes from income from cryptocurrency then you are not obliged to do so and you are free to do what you are earning here, yes here in the Philippines we are grateful that we are not yet obliged to pay taxes.

I'm sure many people make an excellent living selling goat shit. Is that regulated? If you're making a living then it's going to be taxable no matter what you're making a living from.

If it's illegal then it'll remain your wee secret.

As long as people keep their bitcoins from signature campaign in their wallets then there is no problem if they try to convert them into fiat then they need to pay taxes even if there is no tax system for the cryotocurrency in that country because every country has income taxes so actually earning money from something so it is important to pay taxes too.

As always it depends where you're at.

Where I'm pretty sure income tax would be due if I was being paid in anything with a value. You could pay me in cars or baby clothes. It's regarded as an exchange of value so it'll attract tax. It would then be down to me to come up with it so I'd have to sell it.

The payment from signature campaigns cannot be considered as salary income because no TDS is deducted on this payment.

Moreover it is not a regular and stable form of income. You cannot be like always employed on any signature campaign. So definitely it cannot be considered as a salary income.

It can be put under income from other sources. And the treatment can be done accordingly. However i am quite sure about the indian scenario, you can confirm it from a tax  consultant in your own country.

@OP, would it be too much for you to update your first post if you do manage to find some answers? I think there's quite a bit of feedback already from the users here and I agree the important aspects, if you were to declare the income, would be to 1) quantify the value at each earning 2) provide the transaction trail 3) back invoicing (?).

I'm learning the ropes in my own current jurisdiction as well, but I have some issues:
1. Like you, my crypto earnings qualify as freelance income.
2. I am only taxed when I convert the coins to fiat (I believe this is similar to UK). It makes the most sense as well, so there's no difficulty in adjusting price, etc.
3. Invoicing doesn't work well when selling OTC(!).

2. Problem is that I'm fairly sure, at least here, that you actually have to declare anything even if it's not converted to fiat and even if bitcoins aren't seen as a currency or asset.

Right now it seems that in Spain there is no real regulation about it but it will come and again, I basically have to tell them about it just like I would buying a house.

I will update my first post, good idea.

It may be a small amount in Spain, but here in India the tax authorities will issue a notice even if you fail to pay $10 in taxes. It is quite irritating and time-wasting, but this is how the tax authorities work in the third world nations. That said, I am not going to pay any tax on my signature earnings, until I convert my coins to fiat.

That certainly does sound a little strange, but this is the problem when there is no clarity, or precedent. Here in my jurisdiction it was ruled in a 2014 precedent under civil law as not an asset nor a currency, and this is precisely why it is not taxable for as long as they remain as bitcoin. I quote: "Bitcoins and other cryptocurrencies are nothing but exchange agents, such as shells, marbles and pebbles."

Just as they wouldn't have to declare shells and pebbles, you wouldn't need to bitcoin and crypto. Good luck.

I also wonder why there should be a tax, for example when we want to convert bitcoin into our currency, there must be a few percent taxes, what if the small bitcoin amount may be exhausted with the tax, it seems that for companies that use the application get paid from taxes we spend

Let your country do their job, we all know that signature campaigns are not a fixed job so I don't think that it will be just and fair enough if they are going to tax it, it is not stable and not every time you have it.

''But until your money is in BTC, Then no need to pay taxes for it.'' I'm not entirely sure about this part just like with stocks, even if you never sold your apple or facebook stocks, you would still have to declare them, wouldn't you?

This really depends on where you live. In the US, you don't declare when you buy you declare when you sell. You then take what you paid for it subtract what it cost you and pay taxes on that. If you got paid dividends along the way you should have paid taxes on those.

Every country is different, but most of them do operate that way for stocks.

As for signature campaigns, once again US based, above a certain amount you should report them (I do, giving the government it's cut now is not worth the hassle later if they find out about it). In theory you should report it all, but that just not practical. However, I actually report it under "hobby expense and income" Bitcoin is not my main job, it's not even my side job. So *I* can do it that way. Same thing with my eBay stuff. Since what I sell tends to be high profit items I don't like giving money away to the govt, but it's not worth the hassle later.

Now the official:
YMMV, this is not tax advice. Consult your local accountant or tax advisor. I am not a tax advisor so do not use anything I say as tax advice.

-Dave

Well said sir, it really depends on what country you are because it has a different law in each country, but as what I have known here our country our government is now quite on the cryptocurrency they didn't say it is legal or either illegal and as a crypto user here we enjoy this opportunity.
Our government did not force us to pay taxes that we cash out from bitcoin, the only thing I think we must be pay tax when we claim our fiat from remittance we pay a transaction fee per cash out.

You should probably do your own research on this because ignorance isn't an excuse and it could certainly come back to bite you at some point down the line. Take a screenshot of the campaign's payment terms and when you receive the coins. That should be sufficient proof. The evidence is there on the blockchain so it's not like you shouldn't be able to find it.


You could make these same arguments about cash in hand jobs as it's very unlikely the taxman will be able to find out what you have when you provide a service for cash. At some point though you will get audited and if your records don't add up you'll have some explaining to do and that's where at the very least fines will come into place. Also, what do you want to do with the money? If it's a significant amount and you want to put it towards something like a house then they're going to want to know where that money came from. If you can't prove you've paid the appropriate taxes on it then you'll likely start to get in trouble.


It would likely fall under freelancing, but regardless it is still money earned. Most countries give you a tax free allowance up to a certain point so in most cases no tax would be due unless you earn a significant amount, but once you go over a certain threshold tax is certainly due.


There may be no taxes on using bitcoin but legally you will have needed to pay income tax on the coins as you earned them. You couldn't just save up enough coins to buy a house or Lambo then use the coins to purchase it directly without paying taxes on anything. That's not how it works.


This isn't true. If you earn $100 in crypto then you will need to add $100 in income to your earnings.


Don't bother to pay it if they don't bother you? Well this is advice that will eventually get them to bother you. You people really don't know what you're talking about. If you get crypto in exchange for services or goods then it is income. And it's not the banks you need to be worried about; It's the taxman.


It will get even messier when you have to prove what you earned and where it came from. The taxes won't be anywhere near 50% unless you're a high earner. Most capital gains taxes are about 20% as well. Just take screenshots of the campaign threads with their payment terms and your wallet transactions.


You tell that to the judge in court when you're there for tax evasion and see how much that helps you.

Op, don't listen to the majority of people in here because they seem like naive kids who seem to think you don't need to pay taxes because it's not a proper currency or 'job' .The bottom line is if you earn something for providing a service then you will need to be declaring that as income. Of course, how much depends on your countries tax laws but I'd say 99% of countries are going to want their cut of the money. Of course, there is the possibility that they'll never find out and if it's just a small amount they never might, but that's something you will have to weigh up whether the risk is worth it for you. If you are worried do the research or hire a tax accountant who is familiar with crypto or at the very least capital gains. The taxes due will likely by the same as if you were a currency trader or stock broker, though.

Inspite of having these lots of advises being mentioned on here I would really always prefer on consulting  local accountant or tax advisor into your country or place same as suggested above because you would able to know the accurate and precise answer with your doubts when it comes to taxation matters of signature campaign earnings but on general aspect I don't see that this thing should or obliged to be tax.Why? Amounts isn't really too great for them to be concerned of.

I am not aware about the rules regarding cryprocurrency in your country. I think as long as no one is bothering you about taxes, you shouldn't worry. Here in our country, we arw not required to declare it, even if the government knows that some are earning through crypto. Maybe if your govwrnment has a regulation regarding it, you should pay taxes.

Most taxmen usually don't bother you... right up until they notice some discrepancy in your affairs or that you're not paying taxes at all. What country are you from that doesn't require income tax on crypto earnings? I know of very few countries that don't require you to pay taxes on money you earned and it doesn't matter whether you get paid in cash, crypto or potatoes most governments will count those as earnings and will count towards income earned. Are you sure you're not just completely unaware of what you should be paying taxes on? Many seem to be completely ignorant on the issue.

I think you're mistaken. The fact that the government pretends that it does not notice bitcoin does not mean that you do not have to pay taxes. In all countries, people have to pay taxes on their income. Perhaps your income is very small and the Bank does not submit information about the receipt of Fiat in your account? But at any moment it may turn out to be a trap for you.

But this case depends upon on which country you are, not all country you are necessary to pay that tax. Just like what happens here in our country our government did not force us to pay taxes but if we claim our fiat from bitcoin through remittance that's the time we will able to pay tax. Because we have here our country a blockchain base wallet direct to cash your bitcoin from wallet to bank either remittance you can claim with it.

That is why you shouldn't look at crypto in terms of your local currency and start spending it. You got 1 crypto coin, you held 1 crypto coin, you spent one crypto coin. No fiat = no taxes. :)
If you want fiat, you should be aware that the real owners of fiat, the ones that you're leasing the money from* may end up going after you and requesting usage fees.


*yes, leasing, because fiat money don't belong to you if you get it onto your back account. The direct holder is the bank and the one above it is the government. If any of these 2 decide you're not worthy the money's gone in an instant.

yes, I really agree with you, until now I have not found the use of bitcoin to pay taxes, but even if it is in need to pay taxes, I do not mind, I will pay it from my income, but I please, scameer must be deleted, so that bitcoin users much more comfortable again.

CryptoCurrency is not yet taxable but you need to convert them to fiat currency for usage, so you need to pay taxes on the transaction you are doing. The government will ask you from where you are getting this money, i think it is always best to pay some amount of tax which you are making.

I think only bitcoin transaction are taxable and it still depends on a country you are residing. In US, almost every bitcoin transactions, mining, spending, trading and exchanging is taxable by Internal Revenue Service. Bitcoin gained from signature campaigns is not taxable unless there is law or regulation requiring every participant in the campaign to pay tax.  

Everything depends on the national legislation of the country in which you live. I live in Ukraine and recently there was information that some deputies of our legislature indicated in their tax returns their income in the crypto currency, but they explained that the crypto currency is not subject to taxation and it is not necessary to report this profit in the tax declaration. Therefore, I believe that I have nothing to worry about.

All this discussion here leads me to think that there could be some value in opening a thread here to share what we know the law says regarding Bitcoin and tax, in whichever jurisdiction we happen to have found conclusive help for. Someone above mentioned that the best person to consult would be an actual tax person, preferably an employee of the tax/revenue entity in your jurisdiction. People here seem to be curious enough. What do you say, OP? Or are we just opening ourselves up to flaming?

You really should be looking at crypto in how your government wants to tax it if you don't want to get in trouble. When the tax man comes calling you saying "you should be looking at bitcoin a different way" isn't going to save you from fines or even jail. And spending bitcoin rather than cashing it out is absolutely no different as I already explained above. You can't earn money in crypto and not cash it out, but then buy a Lamborghini or a house and say, I don't have to pay taxes on this now. That's not how it works. If you earn "1 crypto coin" then whatever value it was when you received it is likely what you should be paying taxes on. If the value rises or falls then you can claim the losses back or pay further taxes on the gains if they're significant enough.


Are you sure about that? If that was the case then what happens if everyone starts getting paid in bitcoin instead of cash? No income taxes? I think you guys are misinterpreting the laws completely.

https://news.bitcoin.com/ukraine-drafts-law-exempt-cryptocurrency-income-profits-taxation/


Has this actually been passed? It also doesn't say anything about money actually earned in bitcoin for providing services. I really can't see this being the case because otherwise everyone would just start transacting in bitcoin in order to avoid paying any sorts of taxes.

A more recent article:

https://news.bitcoin.com/ukraine-to-legalize-crypto-mining-as-economic-activity/


That only mentioned profits/income from trading and mining, not any other earnings.


It would be worthwhile and certainly helpful. I think a lot of these people who claim that no taxes have to be paid in their country will be shocked once they actually do some research into their countries tax laws and just because many governments don't explicitly have specific rules for bitcoin yet doesn't mean no taxes are due on bitcoin earnings. They probably don't have rules for getting paid in flat screen tvs but that doesn't mean your employer could pay you in them to avoid taxes otherwise everyone would do it.

If your country still has not legalized bitcoin, you're not obliged to pay taxes even if your income is large enough. It's just that if your wealth remains in the form of crypto currency. Until you have exchanged them into the currency of your home country or in the form of goods. then you can not run away from the taxpayer.

I'm not a supporter of the government so my view is biased. Your advice is good in general and I wouldn't want anyone to act on advice from a libertarian like me and get in trouble. That said, I find the value of BTC at the time of receiving it completely irrelevant and I've never kept tabs on how much it was worth on a specific date.
How do you expect people to pay taxes on the value of coins that they receive? It's not possible to pay taxes in cryptocurrency, so by law you're required to do it after selling for fiat and that amount of fiat becomes the taxable income. Using an exchange is not a requirement, it's an option, a choice. Until the day they allow me to pay taxes in cryptocurrency they won't get a dime.

If you cash out through the bank and if that amount exceeds your untaxable yearly income then you need to pay taxes. You may risk and not pay it, but it is not advisable. If you cash out and buy buildings, jets, houses etc. you will need to prove how did you earn money to buy all of that. Your income in signature campaigns is not interested yet because they are not recognizable yet by the governments. But some of them can link those too with some tools like Chainalysis have

https://www.chainalysis.com/
https://bitcoinexchangeguide.com/bitcoin-taxes-irs-tracking-software-cryptocurrency-classification/

I don't know whether Bitcoin or crypto currency in general serves as a legal tender for goods and services in your country if your answer is yes then there will need for you to link your bank account with your wallets in other for the government agency in charge of tax to access your earning via crypto currency.

If your countries does not legalize the bitcoin yet, you will not be obliged to pay any tax if you want to exchange your bitcoin to fiat. There are some people who will buy from you your bitcoin against fiat with 0% tax. My country is an example of that, bitcoin here, or maybe cryptocurrencies in general didn't have any rules, I don't know if it's legalized or not, but when I want to cash out some of my bitcoin, I can find some people in localbitcoins and I just sell my bitcoin vs fiat.

Yes, one thing is for sure, you have to pay taxes for it. I know I have, that's why I even asked in the first place. I know I could get away without paying and most people can too however there will be a time when that wont be possible. I'm now talking to a lawyer so I will update you guys soon.

He did tell me that even if you don't convert your bitcoins into fiat, you would still have to declare them, although here in Spain, you have to do it 1 year later, for example now in 2018, you would have to pay/declare taxes for 2017.

I think people joining signature campaigns in my country don't need to pay taxes unless they convert their tokens/coins into fiat and cash it out to some banks accepting cryptocurrencies. Government here in our country is not against cryptos but I think they are doing some regulations to put taxes to those people who are engaging and earning money in cryptos, but as far as I know, this is not yet approved and still being processed.

Doing signature campaign is considered as freelance job so earnings from it would still be considered as income. However, earnings from it though might not reach the minimum taxable income if you converted it to fiat during the time you earned it so I don't think it is necessary for you to declare it. However, for your peace of mind, you have the option to declare it. It is really hard to tax crypto earnings because if you compare the price a year ago from what it is now, your earnings is not that much before and you would be paying higher if you declare it now basing it on today's price. You will be paying for an income you didn't even earn given that you already spend it somewhere else before.

I do not know how income tax works on spain but if i were you i would not bother computing it. I think the earnings in signature campaign are too small (specially this year) for your agency to investigate it.

I don't think my country knows I specifically do Sign campaigns... Lol. However, I do a lot of freelance on here and other online platforms, so when payment is made its tax deductible. For Sign campaigns here, when I convert to fiat, fees and taxes are deducted; so I guess that's how the government receives taxes from that.

Exactly, this is what government wants from us is that everyone pay proper tax on their income nothing else. They will never argue how you earn but what you do but one should also be aware for a backup as government at some point ask from where the money is coming as Bitcoin is also indulged in criminal activities and they might suspect you for that also, So be ready with a proper answer if got inquired as Signature campaign might not be the appropriate answer.

Well if you or anyone else wants to evade taxes then that's fine and is your choice, but I doubt you'll be fine if you get caught and you're facing hefty fines and possibly prison time. "I'm a Libertarian" or "I didn't know I had to pay taxes" "or "how can I pay taxes when I never sold my coins" really won't get you any sympathy if that time ever comes. Your beliefs are irrelevant to the government at the end of the day but it's the others I'm concerned about who seem to think they somehow don't have to pay anything.


Well it's not irrelevant for tax purposes. The amount it's worth at the time of receipt is how much you should declare as earnings. If you sell it later on and make profit on the amount then you may be liable for capital gains taxes so that initial value is important once again.


How do you expect anyone else to pay their taxes? You keep a record of the money you receive for the goods or services you provide. The blockchain is already a ledger so there's not much you need to do. Blockchain.info even tells you the amount the coins were worth at the time of receiving them so it makes it easy to keep tabs on your profit and losses.


It's not possible to pay taxes in gold, melons or flatscreen tvs either but you still need to pay taxes if you are receiving them as payment for goods or services. And using an exchange may not be a requirement but paying your taxes certainly is. You can also just sell them for cash, but not being able to pay taxes in crypto isn't a viable defense in as much as it would be for melons or gold. You can easily just cash out the amount required to cover the taxes but if you want to willful evade all taxes on crypto earnings that's between you and the government.

With such an attitude you'd most likely have to carry a notebook everywhere you go and log every single thing you find or get along the way, then spend some time in the Internet comparing the prices to know what value it had the moment you got it and then take some money out of thin air to be able to pay taxes for all that stuff.
To give you a rather ridiculous example: a homeless man walking down the road finds a bike. Instead of happily riding it he should get it priced ant then sell a part of it to be able to pay the income tax. A teen that gets some cash for mowing a neighbor's lawn should add it to the parent's tax report, and so on.
Fortunately there's no way to find out who is holding what amount of coins, just as it's impossible to know how much cash Mr. Jones gave his friend for his birthday or how much money was in a beggar's hat.

I'm not worried about being fine or not. People that I know in person never shared the information about the cash they keep at home and are yet to regret it.  I'm doing the same with both fiat and cryptocurrency.
I will have to pay a tax when I buy a property or a vehicle anyway, so that's unavoidable. Until then, I'm going to keep everything to myself and avoid unneeded snooping. If you want to tell the world that you're a cryptocurrency user in a time when they can as well take you for a terrorist or an enemy of the "system", be my guest.

As far as I know there are some countries that imposed tax on bitcoin earnings and people get to pay them whenever they convert and encash bitcoin. In my country since bitcoin is not yet popular and supported by government, my earnings in signature campaign are not yet taxed. For me it is fair and just to taxed our bitcoin earnings provided that it should be properly imposed and documented for legal purposes.

It actually difficult for any government agency to discover what you earn from bitcoin business related activities such as signature campaign on less your wallet is link to your bank account.

Do you know what bookkeeping and receipts are? You've obviously never ruin a business before. Do you think they just guess how much money they take in at the end of the year?  You keep a record of your in-goings and outgoings and then you pay taxes on the net profit. It's not exactly difficult. If a signature campaign pays you $100 in bitcoin then you have earned $100 in bitcoin. If they pay you 0.01159 then you've earned $100 in bitcoin. I'm really not sure how a homeless man finding a bike or the parents of a child earning some extra money has to do with anything but if you're earning an income doing a job whether you're getting paid cash in hand or in bitcoin or in melons then you're liable to declare income. Sure, they might not ever find out but they might not ever find out about all those houses a criminal has been breaking into or that child locked up in someone's basement but that doesn't make it right, but if they do eventually find out then you're going to have some explaining to do and your libertarian excuses won't get you anywhere but hefty fines and possible jail time (and when it's blatant that you've purposely avoided taxes -- which you've admitted -- the latter is more likely). Also the money anyone earns in such a way will be largely useless for any substantial purchases if they ever wanted to make any. If you ever wanted to put a deposit down on a house or buy a car over a certain amount then you won't be able to without laundering the money so that's something people should take into consideration especially those doing signature campaigns as their full time job or even those earning a substantial amount because sooner or later you'll have to explain where the money came from and why you haven't been declaring it. If people are fine with that and think bitcoin is the perfect tool to get paid in whilst avoiding taxes and leaving a paper trail behind then they're free to do that, but all those people saying "my country doesn't tax bitcoin" or "I don't think you need to pay any taxes" probably aren't being as careful and people normally slip up somewhere. If you're using tor or a safe proxy and selling coins for cash on the street and keeping the money in a shoebox under your bed then yeah you might not ever be suspected of anything, but if you're selling coins using any sort of exchange or even selling for cash then putting the money straight into your bank or buying things from websites where you leave personal details then you might slip up along the way and you're not as safe as you might think. If that's a risk you're prepared to take then you do you.

In order to require you to pay taxes, the government must not adopt any additional laws. It is enough that you get money into your Bank account after cashing out bitcoins. This is your income. Business in bitcoins is not regulated by law so you do not need to have additional permissions. But income tax you have to pay. The fact that you don't pay for this violation of the law in any country.

You're getting all fired up with that jail and "being wrong", money laundering and other stuff.
To clarify:
1. I don't consider not sharing information about my private possession with anyone as wrong. That's my personal attitude and belief and I'm not going to change that.
2. Here in Europe, in most countries you are supposed to pay taxes from realized gains, so until you spend your coins you don't have to pay or report anything. By law you're supposed to pay when you make purchase or exchange for fiat, so I haven't reported anything. Even if this law changes at some point, I still won't do it.
3. There's no need to launder the money. If I ever want to get fiat (don't think I will anytime soon), I'll do it on a German exchange, where we don't have to pay any taxes, at least for now.

Was your ethics so influenced by the system that you feel the need to report your every move to the authorities? That you feel like you're doing something wrong when you don't tell them what you spent your money on? Soon the society will become so scared that there will be no need for surveillance and tracking. The good citizens will share all information of their free will and even feel good afterwards.

By this you rent your advertising space,It may pertains as an advertising service or rental service,As I know, in many Countries rental business is not easily controlled even real estate,I've heard about this as in developing countries as in developed...at the same time our 'income is not as big to control,I think it takes a lot of time and finances for special authorities,which is not favorable condition for them,Maybe I'm wrong,that's my opinion but its fact,noone will start  monitoring forums for this today,but if someone's income is not as small as ours of course monitoring service will focus on it.

Well, in Spain you do have to pay taxes even if you never exchanged bitcoins for fiat. There is however a limit you have to reach before you have to declare anything, which is only 1k euros. He is scared because if you get caught you can be in serious trouble. If you deposit 5k euros in any bank here, they will ask you where they came from and if you can't prove how you obtained them, you will be charged with 160k euros fine and possible jail time as well.

Sure, the amounts you can get from signature campaigns are very small, but some people have been making bitcoin gains since the early bitcoin signature campaigns. Back then you could make up to 1BTC a month just posting in here. A lot of people have asked this before, since they now find themselves with a lot of money made posting on some internet forum, so if you want to diversify and buy real estate... how are you going to buy your house in the beach if you don't report your gains?

I don't know anyone that has gone through this, so im pretty scared that they will not accept the explanations given (that the money was made on an internet forum) so im not going to sell anything for now unless they have clear guidelines, otherwise be aware that you are the government's guinea pig and you have to expect anything.

First of all, I would keep track of all the payments you got on signature campaigns, and save screenshots too of the threads, I guess that would be enough proof. But then you would need to prove that you own the addresses in which you got paid... does the government accept signed addresses? do they even understand the process?

This is all too new and I have no idea what to expect, so like I said, im holding and not diversifying until it's perfectly clear what's going to happen, otherwise you risk that they confiscate your money the very second it hits your bank account, and they may (or not) accept your explanations. If they decide they are not clear, you may lose your money... im not looking forward to lose money that I earned perfectly legal, that is why im simply holding and watching and learning about it. It is again, only sane to hold your coins to nto be a guinea pig, until your government clearly sets the guidelines for special cases like signature campaign gains.

Im interested in how this thread will develop. We need more information on this topic.

I think depending on the countries they have taxed. In this cryptocurrency market no one can say in advance something nice. No one will assert that will stick with this market for a long time. Many countries do not accept it, which is a sad thing for the bitcoin market

Wow, that is true? it's insane then, a 160k fine for only 5k? This is why im saying, be sure of what you are doing everytime you put money in the bank, specially when it comes to bitcoin.

As far as the other guy, yes, anyone knows what receipts are, the problem is, bitcoin has no traditional receipts, you simply get paid. When you sign up with a signature campaign, you just get paid, there are no contracts, and no traditional receipts made between parties, there's only the transaction as proof that A went to B.

Now you must prove what A is (in this case, the signature campaign manager, paying you for the job) and B (the bitcoin address you control).

The question: How is this proven? what is enough and accepted proof? A screenshot of the signature campaign transaction to your account? you must also cryptographically sign your bitcoin address? What if you moved your coins from address B somewhere else and it's now empty? does this matter? etc etc. It's way more complex than traditional freelance gigs. Unless I have that clear im not selling anything, not going to risk them ruining my savings, it's all I have.

Sad for those who have strict countries that implements taxes in all of your earnings, and felt so lucky because our government here allows us to use and make money here in crypto without any obligation at all to pay tax.

If you are earning a substantial amount of money per year in the form of signature campaigns then you must pay your dues when ever your convert these coins to fiat currency,i am not planning to sell any coins at the moment and so i am not worried about it.

If you are converting to fiat currency you are entitled to pay your taxes and it all depends upon their existing income tax rules.

It isn't. Nobody can prove that you Mr. John Doe had received x number of Bitcoins worth y from Mr. James Brown, who was paying for signature advertising on a forum in March 2018. At least unless Mr. Doe decided to register on exchange, wire bitcoins from that address to an exchange and then to his bank and not pay taxes.

Then how are you supposed to prove that your signature campaign earnings are of legal origin? Because if you can't prove it, it would mean that you can never cash out, otherwise you risk that they put you in jail, worst case scenario, which is insane since one earned the money legally.

And how it isn't proof? You have all the forum posts pointing at the origin of the transaction being from the signature campaigns.

Has anyone cashed out money from signature campaigns? (enough for it to be relevant for the authorities)

That is right, it really hard for the government to see that you are earning from campaign here, it will took a lot of time and a great finder in blockchain, besides signatures campaigns are just temporary thing so I don't think that the government will gonna focus here but in trading for sure.

That is not the problem. It's obvious that if you are getting paid in bitcoins in here, the government isn't going to know unless you report it, I don't see them bothering asking theymos for IP records or something, and most people use proxies anyway, for safety reasons in here, since using your real IP in here isn't very bright due all the scammers trying to dox each other.

The real problem is, how the hell do you properly cash out your bitcoins if you want to buy a house with them? because there's no way you are going to avoid the government knowing if you want to buy a house with your signature campaign gains across the years. So far none has given a real answer to this.

For now nobody pay any taxes and I think never will. The amount of those money that people earn here is so small and not regulary that nobody simply will not bother with such sums and calculations.
Maybe in future the government will count cryto earnings as business and will trak every concrete person who earn money this way, but thanks God we are free from this for now.

There is no answer because legally that's impossible to accomplish. One could cash out his coins to fiat through an over-the-counter trade, but that again would raise suspicions about the main source of your capital. If you can't provide sufficient proof of capital source, and that's not possible without blowing your cover, then you simply don't stand a single chance. People think they can outsmart the government, which to a certain extent might be true, but not in this specific case. It could however be that you let your relatives set up a ghost business, book in your signature campaign income as revenue, pay your due taxes, and there you have 'clean' capital, but once again, it's not a legal way of accomplishing your goal, and requires you to follow a complicated alternative road. People should just accept that things some times don't work.

But (and once again) why should this be a problem, when:

1) The activity is perfectly legal (getting paid in bitcoins for posting in an internet forum is a legal activity as far as I know)
2) The funds can be proven to come from such legal activity (namely, by providing the required cryptographic proof that you own the addresses in which one got paid in)

Given 1 and 2 and after paying whatever taxes required, how it wouldn't be possible to have that money in your bank ready to buy some property with?

I refuse to think that we are criminals by posting in here and we can't never use that money to buy some real estate with in 10 years once 1 BTC is worth $1million. Are you going to simply sit your ass on several millions which you cannot use? pretty dumb. We need to get this sorted.

I think the posters (me included) got a bit tied up by hammering too much on one single aspect. Your current post perfectly indicates how it is completely legal to buy whatever you want with the money in your bank account originating from signature campaign earnings. No one will be able to prevent you from buying properties with it. And yes, holding a great deal of wealth isn't worth much if you can't legally utilize it, which is partly why I accepted paying tax over my crypto profits recently.

And how can they prove that it's not legal? In court you're innocent until proven otherwise. You can't prove the origin of your money and they can't prove that those money come from an illegal source.
 
And what if they tell you that this "campaign" was only a fake cover to pay you for selling drugs or some other illegal activity? You got paid from an address that has no ID. It can belong to some forum vatar and that's where the trail ends. This forum member could be your pimp for all they care. You can't prove much but so can't they.

Well, that's the problem. I can't really find all the signatures I have been in even if I tried. Bitcoin itself also lacks regulations, the whole thing, as I said, it's a mess. I asked here to see if someone has ever paid taxes for signatures. It does seem that you can declare it as freelance here and they will not ask you much more unless we are talking about a huge amount of money. They are still relatively understanding when it comes to crypto.

True, it is legal I just needed to know what exactly means, legally speaking, seems like freelance work. However I have provided several times addresses from exchanges but I guess I would still be able to prove I own them, proving I have an account there and that I got the bitcoins. It would still take an insane amount of time to do all of that.

You are the one that must prove the origin of the funds by default, not them. OP is from spain, so he would need to check how it works for his country, but i would say this is the case, that you must prove that the funds are from legal origin, otherwise (and even if they can't prove the origin is illegal) who knows what can happen with the fiat in your bank account.
 

Welll this is another story. Which is why im asking if someone reported signature campaign gains and what the veredict by the government was once the evidence was provided.

It is open for anyone to see that you got paid X amount in exchange of X service. You got X amount paid by doing the signature campaign task and that is demonstrable. Now, if yahoo, Lauda, atriz or whoever else was running the funds to pay people (which would be the most immediate link to your payment) is a "drug dealer" or something, it's not something I could know, but I understand what you are saying, if the government wants to screw you up, they can come up with some ways to do it.

I can only demonstrate that I got paid X amount for X activity (a legal one), and if they don't like that, then yes, I would be in trouble, and since I don't know what to expect, it's why I haven't sold anything and reported anything. I need someone else to do it first and see what happens. Im not going to be a guinea pig as mentioned before.

You can't expect to cash out any relevant amounts without being able to prove where the money came from...

For trading, I know it's insane, but apparently you must provide your entire trading history, including altcoin to altcoin trades. So what I would do is to download your trading history from the exchange's site, typically a .csv file, and attach that and let them figure it out. The problem is, a bunch of people have lost their trading history, since a ton of exchanges are now dead... I would like to know if anyone has been through this problem, what did you do about it.

As far as signature campaign goes, it's what being said in here: We know how to prove it cryptographically, that the address belong to you, and we have the screenshots of this website showing the signature campaign (there would be a problem if you took the screenshot, then rates change and you don't save all the different rates in which you got paid at tho..), and generally it's a very grey area. We don't know if that will be enough to let them enjoy our money if we convert it into fiat, or they will steal all of it from us and put is jail or god knows what. So yeah... who's willing to go first?

Bounty reward is a totally new thiung, we will have to consider yeras before our request is examinated

But this is a mode of income and as a citizen one should also contribute to the country for its development. But yes bounty reward is something no one has hear till yet so it will be very difficult to explain the working of this system and telling them it is not illegal.

yes that's true, taxes are usually felt not when we get paid at the end of the campaign, but usually the taxes we get when we want to change them into our own currency and taxes are done by applications that provide such services

My government did not legalize bitcoin yet so I can use bitcoin without pay any tax.

Usually I earn btc and convert into local exchange , I just paid some fee from transaction so I do not pay any tax.
Other exchange may apply tax because they already legalize bitcoin

But it's different. Buying it in an exchange means you must pay taxes when you cash out: capital gains.

Now getting paid monthly or sometimes weekly, could be considered a job: income gains, which means not reporting them even if you cash out could put you in trouble. A lot of people (including me) didn't know that, so we never reported anything, and then there's also the grey are where nothing is defined. Nobody wants to be the first guy that reports years of signature campaign worth of bitcoins only to get told that you will lose your money in endless penalties due not having paid any taxes in the past, and who knows if they consider the whole thing illegal or of unknown origin, therefore you would lose potentially all of it... personally im going to wait until im 100% sure that I will be able to keep whatever amounts I cash out.

I'm currently talking to a lawyer and he tells me the government wont punish me, at least not for signature campaigns, only because they haven't actually made it clear on what to do with bitcoins, legally speaking. It seems that even if I'm not able to entirely prove where it came from, I will be fine.

Im not sure about that. Is the lawyer specialised in cryptocurrency or just a random one? What kind of information did the lawyer tell you to present when cashing out?

I assume that the lawyer didn't tell you that you can simply cash out your signature campaign gains into your bank account and nothing will happen. They will ask where the money came from, so what was his reply when asked about what to do when they ask about where the money came from?

Well all depends on the country or region you live as far as i know here in my country Bitcoin business activities including signature campaign earning are tax by the government agency in charge of tax because crypto currency is not legalise as currency or means of exchange for goods and services.

Your exchange can't tax you, however your government can.

It varies from country to country, but in my opinion if you have bought bitcoin and after that you have sold bitcoin you need to pay tax for capital gain.
If you have earned bitcoin in any other way(signature for example) than you have to pay different tax, like income or something.

Still, there are no specific regulations in most countries.

To say whether the amount you earn in your signature campaigns is taxable, you need to know exactly the tax laws of your country. In many countries, the minimum amounts that are subject to taxation are established. I do not think that you have earned so much on signature campaigns that it is subject to taxation. However, if this amount is higher than the minimum set, then such a profit may well be recognized as income in the crypto currency and subject to taxation.

No, he told me they wont punish me when I declare where it came from, he said they wont ask too many questions as long as my intention is to declare and pay anything I have to.

Usually, everything depends on the country you live in. It's necessary to learn about all the rules, still, the income is not so large to worry about taxes if any will be imposed somewhere.

i agree with what you have said. bitcoin is decentralized so it means that we are not oblidge to pay taxes from earning it. But once it was converted it into fiat then there goes the taxes. Anyway the rewards that you got from signature campaign as the other said in this thread is just a little amount when converted into fiat so i don't think it would be necessary to declare your earning from signture campaign. This is just on my own opinion and i am only basing with the country i live.

Our country has also not legalize it yet but they have laid the rules and regulations that earnings coming out from crypto currencies fall under a bracket if it is a short term profit 20% else if it is a long term means holding more than 3 yearss than 10% on profit.

It is seems similar to our country. The government established minimum amount subjected to taxation for the workers income that is so called "income tax". But in bitcoin signature campaign this is not legalize yet and taxation are no longer established. It is also unfair to bitcoin users in our country to pay taxes to the government because this jobs is hidden and income also are hidden and not qualified for tax payments at all.

Here in our country there's no law pertaining to imposing taxes from signature campaign. Besides earnings from campaigns are just small compared to those who invested or do tradings with crypto. But then, if they impose tax, then all we need to do is to declare our earnings and pay the necessary amount for the tax. We need to follow what the government will say.

Not really that small, you can still make around 0.04 each month with any hero account which is still around 300$ That's not that small and also considering that the price of bitcoin was far higher, some people were earning 500$+ with just 1 account. You also need to pay taxes for any amount, at least here, you can only get away with 1000$ a year without having to pay any taxes.

I agree that it is all depends on what country you are and do your country engage of partnership of cryptocurrency. If yes then possible that you will tax if it is implemented.

Signature Campaign provide bitcoin earnings , I'm usually convert into fiat using local exchange.
My local exchange only charge transfer fee and 1% withdrawal for every transaction.

Based on my bank's government decision , they are forbid bitcoin transaction so as an advantage, every local exchange exclude tax !

It can be an option but do you really want to evade taxes? I mean you are not only breaking the law but you are also being unfair to your own country, if a considerable amount of you are evading taxes your country might suffer from it.

Freelance work or work from a company does not make any difference as long as it is income it will still be taxable as income tax. And I don't think 50% tax is a reasonable tax rate to begin with. The thing that will give you a different tax rate is classifying yourself as either employed or self-employed.

If you want to skip paying taxes, then there are thousands of legal loopholes out there. And it is quite easy, if you are earning only $3,600 per year from the signature campaigns. And obviously, there are a lot of illegal options as well, such as cash on mail and pre-paid debit cards.

In my country crypto currency is still not legal and still no way to audit your total earnings/ taxable income here in bitcoin. So dont bother to pay taxes as long as it was not under your law.

I don't want to skip paying taxes, that's why I made the thread in the first place but I also don't want to get busted for something that I'm not even doing. If I start paying taxes for bitcoin I would have to pay all of them and it can be really difficult to do so, at least here and I don't want to get entangled in legal fights. I wanted to make sure you can prove and pay taxes for signature campaigns, that's all.

If you tell me what country you are from, I'll be able to point out that you in fact are obliged to pay tax over your crypto holdings/profits, and that without the need of them being explicitly stated as such.

I have seen so many people say the exact same thing, that as long as crypto isn't legal it can't be taxed, but that's wrong to the core. There is always a certain category crypto fits in, don't underestimate your government.

They'll do everything they can in order to make you pay tax over the weirdest possible things, all to squeeze out every possible penny. In other words, don't consider yourself to be exempt from paying tax.

I live in a place where bitcoin is not yet announced as legal  or illegal. So even if i earn bitcoin through either signature campaign or from any other crypto source, i am not bother about paying taxes. But indeed, if my government accepts bitcoin and other crypto currencies and bitcoin is used my country wide, then yes i would certainly pay tax to the government as it allows its citizens to use bitcoin.  But still indirectly, i am paying tax to the government as the currency exchanged into fiats is used for local expenses. Every goods is taxed.

I don't think it really matters if bitcoin is declared legal or illegal as long as you are making money with it, what if you earn 10 million dollars, you think you wont have to pay taxes for it just because bitcoin is not announced as legal or illegal?

Most governments won't be monitoring crypto transactions extensively right now, but it's only a matter of time before they do. Do you think they're just going to sit back and let people earn millions in crypto without paying the taxes on it? The US has already sent legal requests for Coinbase to give up the details of people's accounts there. They could just as easily send theymos a request to do the same which he would have to oblige if it was court ordered. These things have a way of catching up with you. Like I've said before, you might be able to get away with paying no taxes for a while but if you start to live beyond your means it starts to look suspicious. You might be able to earn a decent living here but when you want to buy a car or house big transactions get reported and to buy a house in my country you have to prove where every penny of your money came from on any sort of deposit. There's no way I would be able to buy anything of substantial value without it coming back to bite me eventually. To answer your question, you just declare income earned. This is what you're going to have to do if you want to buy a house in the future.


Just because something hasn't been made legal yet doesn't mean you don't have to pay taxes on it. Seriously, contact your local IRS and ask them if you don't have to pay taxes because your earnings are in crypto. If an employer decided to pay you in gift certificates or credit vouchers or some other form of token that they had created do you think that would exempt you or them from taxes? This isn't how it works. If it was people would just start creating their own money or pay people in goods etc to avoid taxes.

---------


It doesn't matter what you consider. I'm sure you share lots of information. Do you not have an actual job? Do you not pay your taxes there? Do you have a debit/credit card or any other bills? Are you completely anonymous and live self-sufficiently off the grid? Or is bitcoin just a way you can finally get away with quietly sticking it to the man because it's a payment system outside of the mainstream where you think you're safe?


Europe is a continent and nobody pays income taxes to it. I can tell you in most countries I know of it's actually the opposite. Each specific country has their own laws regarding taxes and your logic certainly isn't right regarding Spain or the UK.


What country are you in? This isn't usually true in the vast majority of countries.


That depends on whether you're a citizen of Germany or not. Germany might not require capital gains tax on bitcoins (yet) but I'm pretty sure they still require you to pay income tax on them as earned.

http://www.nomoretax.eu/bitcoin-tax-haven-germany/



I would also be every surprised if Germany lets you cash out thousands or even millions tax free.


No. Why would I report my every move? This isn't a debate about reporting movement. It's about required income taxes and the law of the country you may or may not reside in.



You don't have to tell them what you spent your money on. This is about income earned and tax laws.


Again, this is about income tax laws not anything else. I think a place where lawlessness exists because there's no roads, police or doctors because everybody just evaded or stopped paying their taxes would be much worse than this hypothetical self-reporting surveillance state. Personally I don't think it's fair that some people think they're above the law and are happy for others to pay their way whilst you take all the benefits the country provides you, just on somebody elses tax dollar. There are plenty of countries you could move to though if you don't want to pay income taxes. They tend to lack it other benefits, though.

Correct, even in your state of country legalize cryptocurrency or not, it all depends on how you trade it into your local currency. Indeed, you are not directly paying taxes to the government, but you definitely pay a withdrawal fee of 1% or more. Who knows, the fee we paid is partially paid to the government as income taxes of the exchange company.

the you earn from the signature campaign has no tax. in my country i didnt pay any tax from my income in joing signature. if you are leaving the country that is very strick about taxes from bitcoin. then you have to pay tax.

I didn't realize how many people think that you don't need to pay taxes for anything related to bitcoin, I'm now thinking about opening a thread just to inform people that they should. I mean that's why I even opened this thread, I know eventually they will have a way to check for these things and as I said, over the years the amount of money you can make even with signature campaigns only can be quite substantial specially if bitcoin goes up even higher.

That's a good thing and so as with our government on where they are regulating a local exchange but still they don't require any tax into those users who do involve into crypto or bitcoin itself which each transaction is tax free and the amount is deducted is only on the local exchange site fee only into the transactions had been made but I do still doubt that sooner or later government would impose such regulation when the tx volume is increasing on where coming to a point on where millions of transaction is already involved.

No need for regulations exactly about signature campaigns, every country has an income tax. Signature campaign money is income, so you should pay income tax from that.

Where have you heard this? Show me where in your countries tax code it says you don't have to pay taxes on crypto earned for services provided. You would be laughed at if you used this excuse in court if it ever came to it. Earning money but in bitcoin almost certainly does not excuse you from income taxes. If this was the case everyone would demand their income in crypto to avoid paying them. It just doesn't work like that as much as you and everyone here wishes. Seriously, do some reading on this or contact your local tax authority and ask them.


You should do it. The majority of people who are commenting on this thread seem to be very, very naive or are just telling themselves what they want to hear. Most of them are probably kids to be honest but that isn't going to save themselves from getting in trouble. There seems to be two categories of people here: 1] Bitcoin isn't 'legal' yet so I don't need to pay and 2] They'll never know about it so I'll probably never get caught.

1] As I've explained before this doesn't matter. Your government probably hasn't legalized potatoes as a form of currency but if you get paid in them by the thousands and then when they ask you why you haven't paid taxes you say "well potatoes aren't a legal currency yet' it isn't going to be a valid excuse. If you get paid in potatoes, or anything else in exchange for goods or services that's still an income and you will still owe taxes. If this wasn't the case it would be a huge loophole that everyone would exploit. Instead of getting paid in cash people could just pay you in goods like phones, tablets, TVs etc. Imagine if you owned a shop and only accepted bitcoin as payment for your products. Do you think that would excuse you from paying taxes? Hell no.

2] Again, as I've explained, you might be able to completely fly under the radar forever so they might not ever find out, but you're going to have to live essentially as an outlaw with that money and if your balances don't add up or start to look suspicious you might have some explaining to do eventually. Earning a little bit of money here and there from campaigns probably won't be much of a risk but a lot of people especially from Asia seem to be doing signature campaigns full time and supporting their families through it. Your government will become aware of this at some point if they haven't already and start to look into the websites and services their citizens are using to cash out the coins. It might take a while but if they eventually look into it and see you have been cashing out bitcoins untaxed for the past five years you'll eventually be hit with a big tax bill and a lot of fines potentially even prison. Sure, it might not ever happen or they might not find you but that's a risk you have to decide whether you are willing to take. I would do yourself a favor though and actually find out the law regrading income taxes in your country because a lot of you seem to be just going on what other people are thinking is true.

There is a mistake in your reasoning. Bitcoin is not a recognized currency so income in bitcoins is not taxable. There is no official bitcoin exchange rate. In bitcoins, you can't pay either because the government doesn't have a bitcoin account. Tax liabilities come only after the exchange of bitcoins for Fiat.

::) The mistake is with your reasoning. Did you even read what I wrote or every other post I've made in this thread? Bitcoin isn't an official currency in my country but you I know for a fact that you are meant to pay income taxes on money earned and that includes signature campaigns or selling goods or services for bitcoin. There is no 'official' price in fiat or diamonds or stocks and shares either because they all fluctuate in value constantly but you declare what it was worth at the time in the market when you received it. These are all just silly, ignorant and naive excuses people are coming out with. Just because bitcoin may or may not be a a 'recognized currency' doesn't mean you're not being paid for services rendered and that excludes you from taxes. They probably don't have a gold or diamond 'account' either so does that mean jewelers don't need to pay any taxes if they pay each other in gold and diamonds? Of course not. Don't be silly. If you get paid $1000 in gold, cash or bitcoin then that's $1000 in income earned regardless of the medium of payment and you would declare that on your taxes. Seriously, just do some research or at least back up your statements to prove me otherwise instead of just spreading misinformation.


What country are you from? Show me your countries tax code that states this. This normally only applies to capital gains with trades in some countries and I doubt it extends to income from businesses and payments.

There's no need to pay much attention to this aspect.

But the problem is, even if you were making 200 bucks worth of bitcoin a month back then, let's say, in 2012 where the earlier signature campaigns took place (that I know, it may have been even earlier) then we are looking at around 100-300 bucks monthly. This is not much, but should be reported, but then again, no one does that. If it was FIAT in which you are getting paid, you get it in your bank account and having 100-300 coming in your bank account would most likely go unnoticed, BUT you were getting paid in BTC, so this means that let's say you spent from 2012 to 2014 posting, making a sum of anywhere from 10 to 20 BTC... yeah, that's a lot of money now.

The question is: how do you explain authorities why you never reported that you got paid these coins when you cash out? and what details do they ask for when you cash out? screenshots of the threads in which you got paid at, including signed addresses to prove you own the coins? how the hell does this work specifically? still 0 answers.


Then he is delusional, we have already seen bank accounts getting frozen and so on, so I hope you have all the proof on your side to prove that the bitcoins you earned are legal. Please let us know whenever you cash out signature campaign earnings into euros, I want to know how it went with details. I believe they will ask and they will ask in detail, where it all came from, so again, get all of your stuff together before cashing out, then do so and report here back.

I would say, i am paying tax not to the earning buy spending of fiats converted from bitcoin earned from signature campaign. Do you get me? Unless and until i keep hold of the crypto currencies back in my wallets, i do pay tax when the crypto currencies are exchanged into fiats and they are spent on buying goods and etc. Every service and goods do tax. This has become ever more worst after a new leader has taken over his role. Really pathetic to have him as a leader who is not worth to be even human.

Yes, you have a point mate, since bitcoin and other altcoins here our country are not taxable due to unlawful of cryptocurrencies we much enjoy and freely used our bitcoin. I've earned bitcoin through signature campaign only because I don't have money to invest or do in trading, so far we could not pay tax but when we used our bitcoin and convert to fiat we pay for transaction fee from remittance center just to claim our money I think that's the only thing that we can pay a tax to our country.

So if I understood you correctly you're saying you don't pay income taxes but you pay sales/vat tax when you buy something with the coins you have converted to cash? I'm sure that will stand up in court  ;D ;D ;D. It seems this thread has diverted from people actually discussing what their countries income tax laws actually are to how they can justify tax evasion  ;D.

Op, you should create that thread you were talking about with links and sources to all the different countries tax laws you can find regarding crypto currency earnings. I think a lot of people will be very shocked. I think it's only going to be a matter of time before the Internal Revenue Services of many countries start looking into tax evasion done by cryptos (and America has seemingly already got the ball rolling with going after Coinbase users etc). They're certainly not going to let it happen for ever and when they start prosecuting people for it they'll make a big song and dance publicly about it to scare everyone else so we will certainly hear about it.


::) ::) ::). What country are you in that has deemed bitcoin unlawful? Or are you saying it's not recognized as legitimate currency yet? Either way, that likely won't excuse you from income taxes. Also, how do you think remittance businesses are run? That's their fee they take so they can be a profitable business and it's not you paying your personal taxes. Do you really think that the service you use doesn't pay their taxes either. If you have a remittance center then bitcoin must be legal in some capacity and If they're above board you will likely find they will be paying their taxes on profits and you as an earner will also be liable.

I will tell them that it's just a freelance work. Bounties are not permanent. It's a project base. I bet you don't even make a minimum wage with those bounties so it cannot be considered as full time job.

Exactly, people might feel comfortable with the Bounties but there is no guarantee whether you are going to make huge money with the Bounties. Sometimes they won't pay to the bounty people after raising enough money through crowdsale.

hello everyone, i also want bitcoin but in india ban cryptocurrency :( .

A sole bounty campaign isn't permanent but there's new ones that are continually posted here and if you're a full time bounty hunter or move from one to the other month after month then that money will soon add up. Also, most countries have a minimum tax threshold before you have to pay income taxes so if you earn under it then you won't pay anything, but add this to your other sources of income and you may be. This is something you should look into. Just because you might not earn minimum wage also doesn't exclude you from taxes if you're self-employed or a freelancer.

I'm not  against taxation, if you really earning because ot  bitcoin you can declare your income to the government. If it's just minimal or not worthy for  taxing then you that's  your prerogative, because bounty campaign is not at all profitable.

But there is a situation where in you are not obliged to pay tax for it if the law does not required, just like here in our country where in we are still free to hold 100% of our earnings because it is not yet against the law and we won't have any problem later.

It seems to sound like here in our country as of now we are still enjoyed using bitcoin so far because our government did not implement law regarding this crypto. However, our government recognized bitcoin here as a one of currency payment method, and also they warn us just to be careful with a possible scam.
So, in short, we are lucky here, our profit in the signature campaign was fully 100% we've got no fee implemented.

So you're losing money by participating in signature campaigns? If they weren't profitable then people wouldn't do them. What I think you probably mean is you're not making a substantial amount from them which I guess is true for most users here, but not for others. Some people seemingly have multiple accounts to claim bounties and many seem to be doing it as their full time job from what I've read here and for those people taxes would almost certainly be due. Whether they want to try evade them is another issue.


What country? Are you sure this isn't just your misunderstanding of the law? I think in most countries people aren't exempt from paying income taxes unless they live in a tax haven that doesn't have any income taxes at all (which are rare). If this is just another case of "my government hasn't specifically said you need to pay taxes on bitcoin yet" then that doesn't mean there are no taxes due.


What country is that? Have that actually explicitly said any money you earn in crypto isn't taxable?

This would be also be a problem for us. We know how much taxes we are paying. We cannot just let our earning be deducted by taxes. You know how much taxes affecting our earnings, instead we are going to earn 100% from signature campaigns, we are going to get only 70%, 30% for our taxes. We know how much important the 30% earnings for us.

Hi! I am from philippines. As far as i know, our government are not honoring crypto currency here. But of course i want to hear out your point. And as a law abiding citizen, i may pay taxes in the near future if really i need to.

There is always a story behind it. I think our country is not yet ready for cryptocurrency, but as expected, we may pay our taxes if it is legalized in our own country. We should not let this happen, it will be a slight problem, for we have that kind of deductions in our earnings. We know why and what will be the reasons if it is implemented.

I think if the government discover that through bounty campaign there are people making money through it, still they will not bother the bounty hunters to ask a tax from it. Look some projects are scam, others may good but there are bounty managers who don't pay the participants, and when the tokens earn from a campaign listed in exchange the price dump, so why the government will bother to ask tax from us in such situation.

in my country, Indonesia, Bitcoin should not be used as a means of payment, two years ago there were still many places like hotels, cafes, bars, restaurants, online shopping places, service providers and others who received payments using bitcoin, but last year the government firmly forbids it, and closes the efforts of those still using bitcoin.
so, inevitably I have to exchange my bitcoin with fiat, and I have to withdraw it to my bank account. in such a case, yes ... I pay the tax according to the terms and report it. in my country taxes are not expensive, I am subject to a progressive income tax of 1%. and this is not just for bitcoins that have become the country's currency. but for all the coins I have exchanged, and withdraw into a bank account.

there is to tax the campaign, only slightly, depending on how much we get it, and it also happens if we move the coin to another wallet, only if our money is a little useless, which we send will be little also due tax deducted.

So you know you should be paying taxes but you don't want to because 30% isn't 100%? I'm sure we'd all like to keep 100% of our money but you do realize there may be a day when your greed comes back to bite you and that 30% doesn't seem to much when you have to pay the 30% you owed in addition to fines and interest? I would google what the fines and punishments are in your country for willfully evading taxes.


So you don't want bitcoin to be 'legalized' just because you like getting away with tax evasion right now? I seem to be confused. Has your country actually deemed bitcoin illegal or are you only going to consider it legal once your king or Supreme leaders publicly announces that it is legal and you should be paying taxes on it? I think a lot of people are assuming because you're not automatically being taxed on bitcoin like you do with a regular wage that it's not applicable yet. This is almost certainly not the case.

Actually, it differs and everything depends on the particular country you live in.

It's not that we want to avoid taxes, at least I don't, because me and a lot of other people hope to be able to buy real estate with our bitcoin gains, and you can't avoid taxes if you want to buy a house anyway.

So what do we have here: Some people earned small amounts through the years on the signature campaigns. Let's say you made 100-500 bucks worth of Bitcoin a month since 2012, im too lazy to get the exact number but imagine the gains... we are looking at possibly half a million dollars to a million dollars.

Now in most countries, 100-500 bucks is under minimum wage, so most likely you wouldn't have needed to report that, but this is extremely unclear how it would end up in a court.

In any case, you end up with a million worth of bitcoin made on signature campaigns, completely unreported. What do you in this situation? If you want to buy a house, what can one expect once you sell and receive the money in your bank account?

They will ask from where the money came from. Once again, several people are waiting to get some answers here. What will they ask for, specifically? what if the proof you present (let's say, screenshots from the threads, even digital signatures, etc?) it's not enough? what if they claim you should have reported your signature campaign earnings when you got paid and now you get an huge fee? you risk your money being confiscated.

The reason most people aren't risking reporting Bitcoin gains outside of the regular bought-in-Coinbase ones is because it's just very unclear how it will end up like, and people don't want to lose their hard earned money as soon as it hits your bank account. We have several evidence of bank accounts frozen when they sold their coins. We need answers, and so far, we don't have any testimonies of signature campaign earnings of any relevance being sold.

It is true that it is very difficult to prove ownership of crypto done by the taxpayer, and I honestly have never paid taxes from the results of crypto, and probably because there is no rule in my country.

Tell us how it goes from you, im willing o hear your story, but also tell us where you are from too for reference, and tell us how much money did you sell made in the signature campaigns whenever you do.



OP is from spain, and by looking at the very complicated spanish laws, it seems you must pay monthly, without exception, around 300 euros if you work as a freelancer, plus another tax which will be 20% of your earnings every three months, plus another yearly tax. This is obviously insane for someone making money off signature campaigns, which is why I predict literally no one in spain has ever reported gains from signature campaigns.

The problem is, you didn't, and now your bitcoins are worth a ton (like I said, let's say you did that when bitcoin was way cheaper, which means your revenue in BTC terms was way higher back then). So now in our example this person has a nice little fortune in bitcoin which no government can ever know about, unless he decides to sell.

So if one wanted to buy some real estate with that fortune, what is to expect? That is what me and others are asking, since it doesn't seems very smart to sell with the risk of getting all of your hard earned money confiscated, as they could claim the origin of the money is unclear.

I don't think that the government will become strict in the campaigns as it is just temporary, for me what they would focus is the income from trading your money, or by simply holding it, since by just simple holding you are gaining from it.

If you go from one campaign to another, and most do given the opportunity since if you are going to be posting anyway you must as well get paid for it, the activity no longer becomes an sporadic one, so in theory it is income taxable.. but like I said before, if you haven't reported anything for years and it has increased a ton in price, you are at risk of getting fucked by the state in a bad way, since we don't know what to expect. Im willing to pay taxes when I want to buy a house, but I want a fair deal, I don't want my money to be stolen under a legal pretense.

Give me some evidence of someone cashing out a big amount of BTC earned in signature campaigns not previously reported for years and then we will know what to expect, at least in the respective jurisdiction.

But as a smart person we wont really do such thing on making them or showing evidences right? If we do know the law of our country is too strict when it comes to tax then its normal for us to get worried on not paying up taxes because sooner or later there would be problems would be faced specially when you are already engaging into big amounts but yet we are just talking about signature campaign taxes i dont really bother too much yet the amount isnt really too big at all to consider.

Again, it's not that you get paid much... it's that Bitcoin goes up in value over time.

If you participate in signature campaigns as an Hero+ Member for a year, you could make around 1 BTC on average, at current rates. Let's say you do and save that 1 BTC. You didn't report your monthly income which is not much, but in 5 to 10 years your 1 BTC is now worth $1,000,000, so now you have $1,000,000 of unreported money. What would you do then, if you wanted to buy some real estate? that's what we are dealing with in here. We already know bounties don't pay much, but when you get paid in BTC and you hold it, sky is the limit long term.

If your country has not developed legislation on cryptocurrencies, do not hurry to declare your income.  Personally, I  would not declare a profit in cryptocurrency. There is another option to go to another country and cash your coins there . But it's risky, too.

This seems to be the most sensible way to go about it... if there isn't 100% clear rules in what to do and what to expect, and if you can't find people that has done the same in the past and see how it went for them, you are basically being a guinea pig for the government as mentioned before.

So if anyone cashes out big amounts obtained through bounties like the signature campaigns in here, please let us known in detail how it went for you. Until then, we are just speculating.

It's not the most sensible option at all. It's the dumbest one because you're just trying to claim ignorance when the simple fact of the matter is that in almost all cases if you earn money regardless of what currency it's in then you have earned money and it's liable for taxes. As I've said numerous times now just because you feel the law isn't 'clear' (tax laws rarely are) or they haven't explicitly come out and said you owe this much on bitcoin doesn't mean "wahoo tax free earnings" and you're honestly not going to be able to use these as excuses if/when it comes down to it.


This also isn't viable. Most countries have laws about this otherwise everyone would just go to a country that has zero taxes, cash out their money then come back. Governments aren't stupid.

No one is claiming that we want to avoid taxes here, read again. Bitcoin back then was too much of a novelty, literally no one reported that you got paid 50 bucks worth of something called "bitcoin" because you posted in a forum.

So there's a ton of people that has amounts from back then that are now worth a lot. Let us pay taxes when we want to cash out, but if we know for a fact that they will fuck us up, then why you would even bother? If I was in that situation, I wouldn't risk it. This applies for miners too. A ton of people mined some coins back then, then years later they find that they have months or even years of unreported mining gains. If the fee/punishment will be bigger than just not reporting anything and spending your coins in smaller things that will not raise alarms, why the hell would send yourself to the slaughterhouse?

So if anyone wants to be a guinea pig for the government and wants to report years of unreported bitcoin gains through signature campaigns, then please let us know how it went, so we know what to expect. Until then, no thanks, im not going to be the first to do so.

I also wonder why there should be a tax, for example when we want to convert bitcoin into our currency, there must be a few percent taxes, what if the small bitcoin amount may be exhausted with the tax, it seems that for companies that use the application get paid from taxes we spend

Except for all the people who have claimed exactly that in this thread and the guy you quoted:



It's not a novelty if you're making good money and a living from it. You wouldn't have to pay anything on taxes of $50 anyway. In my country at least you get a tax free allowance and anything under that you pay nothing. I suspect many people who earn just a little from signature campaigns every month won't be due anything either. Those who have 20 accounts claiming every bounty they can will likely be a different matter.


That's how it works in most places. You pay gains when you cash out, but if you earn a living or run a business then this is probably not the case. Say you earned $10,000 a year then no taxes would be due in my country. But say that $10,000 goes up tenfold to 100,000 over the years then you would owe capital gains on the coins you sold, but again, you have a yearly tax free capital gains allowance that you could take advantage of where you pay nothing at all up to a certain amount.


That's willfully evading taxes and makes your punishment much worse when caught and if they find out you've purposely avoided and evaded taxes then that's when jail time becomes a possibility. It's up to you whether you want to take the risk but the longer you leave it the bigger the penalties will be. They usually want interest on the money you owed for every year on top of fines so you have to decide whether that risk is worth if for you. Again, if you didn't earn much in the first place then you might not have been due to pay anything so just pay the capital gains when you cash out and there shouldn't be any worries. The fact that you have paid your gains willfully will count a lot for you. Not paying them willfully could come back to haunt you if they do every catch up with you, though.


You're not the first. Plenty of people pay their taxes both on income and capital gains. I've paid capital gains taxes on my bitcoin earnings for the past few years and it went fine. Absolutely no problems at all. I will now likely not have any issue if I want to go buy something like a house whereas if I hadn't have been declaring my gains I would have had a bank account with a load of money that I wouldn't have been able to buy a house with because it wouldn't have been accounted for income. I would then likely be investigated and hit with fines for any taxes I had missed on paying. I would suggest people just actually read up on the rules for income and capital gains taxes in their country instead of just making up their own rules to suit themselves or their greed because it's only a matter of time before a lot of them start looking into crypto earnings and gains and if you're a long-term hodler there's going to be a time where you start wanting to buy houses and lambos and good luck with that heat you attract.

You can always purchase untraceable precious metals. Gold is always desirable and not all gold dealers ask for identification for 'relatively' small purchases. A very easy way to unload your bitcoin if you are scared of holding.

When I read this thread my reaction was " seriously? is it possible to have taxes on signature campaigns?" I don't think it's optional if you really pay the tax or not in the world of crypto  ???

Im talking about signature campaign gains specifically.

How does one prove that the money comes from a legal activity (in this case, signature campaign bounties) and how is this declared?

Do they ask for screenshots of the threads where it shows the rates? what if the rates change and they do over time? how do you prove you own these accounts in which you got paid at? signed message with the account you got paid at?

And so on. That's what im talking about, and there are no clear rules about that. Anyone that wants to eventually sell, needs to know that information to be ready.

Let's say you have never made more than $10,000 a year from signature campaign payments, so in the case that one wanted to sell it, it would just be regular capital gains I guess. But one must look how it works in your country.

My point is, im never going to avoid taxes, when I cash out, basically because it's impossible if you want to buy real estate with that money, and I want to know what to expect, so I have all the info ready when I want to sell an amount and buy a house, because if you don't have all the info ready, they can just froze your account and end up confiscating your money (it has happened before), in which case you would have been better off keeping it on BTC where it remains safe no matter what (assuming the BTC wasn't obtained in NSA central like Coinbase)


Nope, that's just being realistic. In some countries, they have laws that go something like this:

"if you are holding in value higher than $500,000 and you haven't declared it, it means automatically jailtime".

So let's say you mined some coins in 2011 or something, mined a couple 50 BTC blocks, and you had a 100 BTC wallet that you forgot about for years.

Once you find out about Bitcoin again, your money is worth millions.

The scenario is similar with signature campaigns, you got paid from 2011 to 2013, forget about BTC because you think it's dead, then you get interested again and they are worth a ton.

So basically, if you tell the government, you'll go to jail, because you are holding an amount higher than whatever treshhold they have for jail time for unreported gains.

This is why you must really know how it works in your jurisdiction. Some laws are just stupid, and you are better off keeping your money in BTC, rather than end up poor and in jail. You couldn't be able to spend your BTC in flashy things which sucks, no nice house and car for you, but it sure beats ending up with bigger problems just because you are trying to do the right thing. That's why again, you must be sure how these things work before doing anything stupid. The only thing guaranteed is that your BTC are safe were they are at (assuming your cold storage is good), so be sure you know what to expect if you try to go fiat.

It actually difficult for any government agency to discover what you earn from bitcoin business related activities such as signature campaign on less your wallet is link to your bank account.

It will depend upon the country that you are staying in which Bitcoin investment is declared legal then of course you will be subject for taxation per regulation.If you earned Bitcoin thru signature campaign, trading and any form of Bitcoin investments that once you convert it to your local paper money then it will be subject for a taxation thru your local exchanges as per policy of the government. Except if Bitcoin is not legal but not ban in your country then you will enjoy the benefits of earning Bitcoin without tax.

Yes right.No regulations or rules implemented no taxes. Like here also in our country, bitcoin is legal but not controlled by the government so whatever transaction made in a P2P network are tax free.We only pay service charge to the merchants handling the cash out transactions.

taxes do you mean when you get paid from a campaign and your pay is not in accordance with the rules listed so you think you are taxable from the campaign? try to check first whether there is a mistake from the manager or indeed there is an error of the rules that have been applied.

How would you prove any other sort of income? The blockchain is a public ledger which cannot be faked so it's not like there's no proof. Take a screenshot of the campaign and note down the tx ID in a spreadsheet. If they ever ask for proof then show them it. This is all you need to do. It's up to them to prove you have done something wrong or earned money illegally in whatever capacity and if you've done nothing wrong then there's nothing to worry about. You have all the proof you need from a screenshot and a txid.


They won't ask for anything unless you ever get audited. This really isn't rocket science. If you earned 0.1btc then you've earned 0.1btc. Make a note of how much it was worth the day you received it and how much it was when you sold it. Sell it as soon as you receive it if you don't want to work this out.


 ::) ::) ::) The continued ignorance of people here is astounding. I honestly don't know whether you're all just naive kids who have been told bitcoin is a magical way to earn money without paying taxes or whether you're just saying what you want to believe. UNLESS YOUR GOVERNMENT HAS SAID OTHERWISE THEN INCOME EARNED IN CRYPTO ALMOST CERTAINLY STILL FALLS UNDER TAXABLE INCOME. Jesus F Christ. Why do you all think bitcoin falls outside of being taxed? Because they government doesn't automatically tax it? They don't normally automatically tax anyone who is self employed but that doesn't mean no taxes are due. YOU are responsible for paying taxes in this case and not doing so is breaking the law. Seriously, read up on your countries tax laws or email them regarding crypto taxers and you'll soon find out.


 ::) ::) ::) No, not at all. This thread is about income taxes you are due to pay on signature campaign earnings.

Earning with signature campaign is not illegal in many ways keeping your earning in your wallet and keeping the money is not a problem at all, if you think you don't need a tax then don't, but remember when you cash out, withdraw only a minimum amount like $250-$500 a months if you don't have a regular job, but if you have regular job withdraw the amount equivalent to your monthly salary this way you can't be easily trace since you have your regular source of income,  compared to those nonworking people who will just deposit thousand of dollar to their bank account without stable source of income they will be invistagated when banks submit a report to any police station...

Either way, if you just earn minimum amount of money in bounty and you don't feel like paying tax then consider dropping some money as tithes and donation to church nearby.. ..this way you'll feel bless rather than guilty.

But all of these are depends on which country you are, well, luckily in my country it tax-free my government did not put a tax on cryptocurrency so until now we much enjoy using cryptocurrency without deducting any amount just for tax.
If you want a proof signature campaign has a proof that your money came from a campaign and have a source of income, maybe spreadsheet is one of the trusted documents as a proof.

If you put all your money in the form of a crypto, how do they know how much money you have? Since this is an extraordinary income, no agency that controls all transfers is anonymous so it is difficult to The agency they manage is unless you switch to Fiat and the currency.

Sigh. You guys are really misinterpreting your countries laws. I see you're Filipino. There might not be any taxes on bitcoin transactions (there aren't in most countries) yet, but you are still required to pay taxes on earnings. See here:


https://cryptocurrencynews.ph/2017/12/04/are-bitcoin-transactions-taxable-in-the-philippines/

I don't know whether you guys are just really naive and misinformed or are just believing what you want to believe because you don't want to pay taxes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_the_Philippines

According to Wikipedia you pay 20% on self-employed earnings over P250,000 which is 4,772.50 US Dollars. So if you're earning over 4,772.50 USD you owe 20 percent of anything after. Your casual sig campaigner earning hundred dollars a month probably won't be due any taxes at the end of the year but for those who are full time spammers with multi accounts or bounty hunters are probably going well over that. You also have capital gains taxes of 15%.


How do they know if you get paid in cash? They don't. If you're self-employed you submit your own taxes.  Sure, they might not ever find out if you get paid in cash or bitcoin but if they do you're going to be in trouble. Good luck evading taxes all your life and never running into any issues especially when you have to explain how you've been able to afford certain things. If you're using a website and bank account to make transactions then they can easily subpoena those to get your details (if those sites aren't already submitting your details by law) and this is already happening in countries like the US with Coinbase and likely others.


Not sure that will stand up in court, but if you earn only a little you're probably not liable for anything. Those who are buying houses and flashy cars with their new found crypto wealth will be another matter.

So in my country bitcoin is not yet legal but still, I am paying taxes to the government on the transaction we do. Government are very strict about it, because they mentioned bitcoin is not legal tender but people who trade them should pay taxes to the government.

Income tax will be implemented when you use your awards (any digital coin) to buy products in a store then tax will be charge unto you, but taxes on signature campaign is a like nonsense.

::) ::) ::) No it wont. What you're saying is pure nonsense and I'm flabbergasted by your naivety and ignorance. Stores pay their taxes as VAT but that doesn't exclude you from income taxes. You pay your taxes just like stores do. Out of interest, how old are you?

You don’t need to pay taxes on this income unless you have a clear rule in your country. Of course, if a country intends to collect taxes from bounty hunters, it also means that they recognize ICO and acknowledge the cryptocurrency.
This is a contradictory proposition. If your country does not recognize cryptocurrencies at all, then the tokens you received are legally worthless in your home country before being sold by you.

First of all, you need to clarify the legislation of your country. Everything will depend on the specific taxation conditions in your country. It is possible that activities in the ICO signature campaign will not be taxed at all, or a minimum amount to be taxed will be established. In any case, I have not yet met that any state should impose a tax on the participants of the ICO signature campaign.

They are right, taxation of your btc earnings depends on the regulations established in your country with regards to cryptocurrency. I don't have ideas how strict Spain is when it comes to this kind of stuffs so better to do research about it. It's a good news for you if your earnings are not mandated to be taxed because you can enjoy your whole income without any deductions. If the opposite happens then don't feel too bad because at least crypto is not banned in your country.

Just giving you an insight, my btc earnings are not taxed here in the Philippines since our government not yet declaring a concrete regulation/act regarding this topic. The deductions that I only get is the fee for every withdrawals that I do.

as long as I follow a campaign I have never gotten any tax either from the campaign or when I get paid in a campaign I only get a rebate when I transfer my fee to another wallet.

a. since joining signature campaign is not prohibited by the government you can join as many as you can.
b. Joining signature campaign is not an assurance that you will be having money out of it, since there is no income, no tax payment is not needed.
c. Receiving you award in signature campaign doesn't mean it has a value, since you can pay tax with your token, there no need to pay tax with it.
d. If you make money out of selling your token from signature campaign, base on amount, minimum result leads to tax exemption but in earning large amount money and you don't know how to pay tax out of it consult a lawyer for advice.

hope this help you a little.

I myself am amazed with the tax payment for signatures because how they will track this all and what about other bounty campaigns like translate, and blog / you tube whether to be in taxes such as signatures ...?
but as long as it becomes a government law then we must obey it

Bitcoin, in the first place, is information that, for convenience, "called" cryptography - virtual money. The prefix "crypto" means that this information is encrypted. That is, the bitcoin is the encrypted virtual money.

But bitcoins are not yet a monetary unit in the usual sense, although they perform (not all) functions that are inherent in money. What does not happen? In particular, bitcoins can not be used as a valuable means of storage - there are no bitcoin banks or organizations that accept bitcoins "for a percentage." So, completely replacing the money bitcoin is not yet in force.

The first item that was bought for bitcoin is pizza. American Laszlo Khanec paid 10 000 bit-bones for two pizzas at that moment. So the starting course can be considered to be 5 000 bits for $ 10. Given that now the price of one bitcoin is about $ 4,000, then pizza was incredibly expensive - almost under $ 2 million. From this all has begun.

And he invented and implemented the bitcoin system of Satoshi Nakamoto. Do you think it's some Japanese? Not a fact. This is a pseudonym. One person, or a few, is hidden under him, it is not certain.

Personally, I am not going to inform the tax authorities about my tokens being used in bounty campaigns. Yes, they will not understand what it is) Taxes need to be paid only when exchanging cryptocurrency for fiat money.

Here we go again  ::) ::) ::) ::). You're not a lawyer, are you? Are you just making random things up and telling yourself what you want to believe? I'm pretty sure most if not all countries have laws about self employed income. As I've said multiple times before just because payment is in crypto and your country may or may not have given specific instructions on how it should be taxed it doesn't give you a free pass to not pay taxes.


Please read the thread. You are responsible or paying your own taxes on income you have earned. It's self-employed income. Check with your local tax authority to see whether you've earned enough liable for taxes.


Source? What country is this? This isn't how it works in my country.


I'm not sure what this has to do with the topic.

As you say it is quite difficult to determine the taxes of this kind of work in getting bitcoin like doing a signature campaign. The problem is that each member does not always use the real name in their username in the forum.

Often, It is related with country. 

I think the only difference is that funds are found in trading results or may be taxed. The only difference is that trade is passive income, while signature campaigns are categorized as jobs, or payments are returned to each service. The tax payment process depends on each country or place you live.

in my opinion participating in signing campaigns is not possible to pay taxes, because signature campaigns are not a job. I can summarize this signature campaign is not a job but a unity, because I have read postings made by the famous campaign manager in this forum, then he said that. If your country is very serious about this, then please prove that you are participating in the signature campaign in this forum, I think it is very easy, or not difficult to provide concrete evidence.

It really depends on you if you declare cryptocurrency is your asset then you have to pay your taxes, but in cryptocurrency earnings like signature campaigns and bounty are not considered as fix income and most of the country doesn't have regulation in cryptocurrency.

As far as I know there are some countries that impose a tax on bitcoin income and people can pay them every time they convert and abbreviate bitcoin. In my country since bitcoin has not been popular and supported by the government, my earnings in signature campaigns have not been taxed. For me it is fair and only for our bitcoin income tax as long as it is to be properly charged and documented for legal purposes.

It depends on country and their norms for cryptocrunncy.

Wrong. If you do trading as a job full time then it's your job. Also, trading isn't usually passive income but regardless that doesn't mean taxes aren't due on it.


Your opinion is wrong and you've just contradicted yourself. You first said they are a job, then said they're not. You're doing task (advertising) and getting paid for it. Therefore it is income. Which campaign manager said they're not a job? (and not sure what a 'unity' is either).


It doesn't matter it bitcoin isn't popular. They're not being taxed because it's self-employed income and you as a self-employed person are responsible for your own taxes.

Well, although the government will imposed tax on signature campaigns how come they would know you are joining at it since it is anonymous right? it may be regulated but they cannot find it if you are really having an in come in this kind of method. It is just up to us if we will abide law or not.

Semi-anonymous. They'll certainly know if you use an exchange and bank account to sell your coins, and this is where a lot of people will slip up thinking they're invincible. Unless you use a bitcoin address not tied to you and you sell your coins for cash on the street then you'll probably leave a paper trail somewhere leading directly to your real name and if people like Ross Ulbricht can slip up then so can the average crypoto user. Remember, they can always catch up with you at some point and if you've been evading taxes for years but have been living well beyond your means then you'll have a lot of explaining to do so I'd ask yourself is it really worth the risk? If it is you do you but I think it's only going to be a matter of time before many govs starts cracking down on all this crypto tax evasion because they aren't going to let billions go in missed taxes and they'll start by going after people by sending subpoenas to exchanges asking for all your details which they will almost certainly have to comply with.

In my country, if you have no job or did have a previous job and you contributed tax then now if you are not working but are earning from this forum what I did is I pay my tax manually. Although I don't have a job, I state their that I am a freelancer. I can't say this is an online job because then, you would supposedly have a boss or someone to report to or whatnot.

Crypto currency can be count as a job because we're making money on it. Anything that can give us profit, and demanding our time and effort for profit that is considerably called "job"
And so if taxes applied we can't say no to it although not good In the first place but this is also a good chance to see hoe the crypto currency is progressing in your country because through it many can start their lives of making profit through it.

You are a good citizen! Most people doesnt really tend to pay up taxes but in your part you are still considering to pay up even if you dont have already your day job you do still consider to pay up manually but for some people they would evade as much as they can but well this would entirely depend on countries law about that matter some are too strict when it comes to compliance on paying up taxes and some are way too free.

Are you the government of his country?  ::)

Most people here pay tax automatically because their employer does it for them, which goes up for me as well. In my case I am subject to a near 50% rate, which is insane, but I don't feel it because my employer does it for me. I have done freelance work and had to pay my taxes manually, and when you earn $1000 with whatever freelance work you are doing, it sucks to see 25-50% go to the tax department directly. It's a psychological difference when your employer does it for you (which definitely benefits you), or you do it for yourself. In case of the latter, people, even the brave citizens you refer to as such, are more likely to not declare anything. It all depends on the situation and the psychological effect on how we deal with it....

It's a freelance work because it is project based. It's better that way so they won't dig much more on your earnings but your government should not even waste time to tax you on low paying sig campaigns. Maybe it can apply to trading but shouldn't be in signature campaigns.

Depending on the regulation of your own country is the filing of your taxes. If your earnings last year upto now stayed only in your wallet , i guess theres no need to file it. If you frequently withraw, then ask some on the taxes office if you should file or not. Bitcoin earnings do not have taxes on ther countries.

If in my country the world of cryptocurrency has been legalized I am sure certain earnings from the signature campaign will be taxed. But now the government is not entitled to tax Bitcoin let alone Bitcoin has not been legalized. So if I personally still free to use Bitcoin without having to spend taxes. I do not understand the rules in your country.

The problem is, if in the future your government decides possession of Bitcoin is strictly illegal, then you are screwed big time because they already know you own X BTC.

If you have been making small amounts of money monthly worth of signature campaign for years for example, it's not an illegal activity, you earned it, you just didn't declare it, so if you ever want to buy property with your BTC (which would be worth x100 times more across years) you just would need to show proof of your sig campaign payments (how? im not sure... screenshots of the payments?? how does this even work), and maybe pay an extra fee for not having paid taxes on time, but this fee may be worth it since you are protecting yourself from a possible ban-on-possession of your government. This would give you a window of opportunity to move into a jurisdiction happy to take your BTC taxes instead of confiscating them as illegal assets (which they would, because you told them you own them). Think long term.

It all depends where you put the money you've earned in doing signature campaign. If it stays in a crypto wallet then my guess is that it is still not taxable, but once you convert it into cash and they would know how you got it, they may impose taxes on you.

Those people who that are taxed on their crypto profits are very unfortunate. My country is not doing that but if in case it happens, I would mark it as a freelance work. But the funny thing is that a lot of freelancers here in my country are also not following their tax duties.

But some people said it's treated as income tax, so you should be paying taxes yearly, in some countries monthly or every quarter, it depends. You should also be telling the government that "I own X amount of BTC" even if you have it in your wallet.

Of course, no one does this. I would pay any taxes needed because I need to eventually buy property and all of my BTC are of legal origin (I didn't do illegal stuff to own it). The problem is, just like many other, we are paranoid that for example in relation to the signature campaign issue, maybe having some screenshots of the thread with your address in there and so on, it's not enough, maybe they come up with excuses to steal your hard earned coins. Or maybe eventually they deem it illegal and then you are screwed. Do you really want that?

I want a guarantee that my government is not going to screw me up while im trying to "do the right thing", and so far there's none, you need precedents. For example OP says he is from spain, so he needs to know some precedents of people that has earned BTC from sig campaigns and cashed out in that jurisdiction, to know what to expect. Until you haven't heard of precedents I wouldn't risk it and just hodl, which is the only guaranteed place where your money will be safe. When you have more info, assess the situation later.

I'm not an accountant, but...

For a US citizen you should report any signature campaign taxes at the moment you sell your bitcoin. If you were paid in bitcoin for the signature campaign, the bitcoin you earned would change your cost basis. Now you earned an amazing 0.01 bitcoin for a signature campaign. Your cost basis for this 0.01 bitcoin is 0, since you didn't pay anything for it. To keep things simple, I would recommend keeping your bitcoin separate or keeping all the documentation you need to separate your dates on your tax forms. But lets imagine you didn't keep any documentation or the IRS thought your proof was insufficient. You will likely have to pay taxes on the full 0.01 bitcoins. If you sold the 0.01 bitcoins for say, $120 you would pay the capital gains tax of 15% on the full $120.

This isn't even the main problem. Im not sure if you should declare it as income tax or as you say, 0 cost basis investment, of course you will always pay some tax in any case, the main problem is if you did not keep track record to prove where your bitcoins come from, they could simply claim that the origin could be from drug dealing or some criminal activity, note the "could". You can't prove it, they can't prove it, there is a conflict there. This situation varies a lot depending jurisdiction. Is this grey area that scares me the most. Worst case scenario and you will lose your coins as they confiscate them due "Illegal assets" or something.

For instance, many exchanges are now dead and people have lost tons of track records, or even current exchanges have extremely poor policies in trackrecord keeping, for instance Livecoin is an absolute mess which keeps only the last 30 days of trades, so I have lost some trading records there... honestly it is a nightmare trying to keep track of everything. Now if you try to sell some of these coins involved in lost records you may have problems. Like I said, a total nightmare.

we need to know there are several types of tax related crypto and it also can apply depending on where we are in the country because there are some countries that make taxation policy on crypto and there are countries that exempt such taxes as perceived by me there is no tax for bitcoin users but we are taxed only when redeeming the bitcoin

Well, we were much luckier in our country did not implement any law regarding paying the tax of bitcoin that comes from the signature campaign but actually, we have a proof in our source of income that did not come from illegal activities or in money laundering that government strictly prohibited or the reason why you put into a jail to commit your punishment.
Yeah, we can still be paying tax when we convert our bitcoin into local fiat and buy goods.

Then keep records. The bitcoin blockchain is one entire public ledger so it's not difficult to find your transactions nor will it be for the tax authorities. Besides, if there's no link from the money going to you then there's obviously no link that the money came from crime either and they can't prosecute you based on nothing or mere suspicions. The Tax authorities likely won't be as lazy or as stupid as those who are claiming they've kept no records so they'll be tracing those funds if they want to prosecute and they'll either find that you've earned them legitimately or that you've been doing something criminal. If anyone is worried about being painted as as a digital drug dealer then keep records. It's not hard to keep a spreadsheet updated every time you receive a bitcoin payment and this is something you should be doing anyway for your own records.

Interesting question. Taxing bounty hunters on signature campaign will be quite unfair. I think there is no fixed amount when it comes to how much people receive for the campaigns.The amount members earn from these campaigns are not huge enough to go through taxation. Besides, some  of the the tokens do not even go on exchange at all. What about the scam bounties too? bitcoin does not operate exactly like fiat currencies so lets appreciate the differences and forget about taxation. A friend of mine who introduced mine to signature campaigned warned me not to depend solely on it because its not a full time profession that you can earn huge sums from.

And yet there are people earning thousands of dollars on signature campaigns who have made it their full time "job". Nobody is interested in ill-informed opinion here but facts, regardless of how "unfair" you think paying taxes are doesn't mean they're not due. I'm sure you will find the fines for failing to report income or paying due taxes will be quite unfair also, so that's something you should take into consideration before you decide to either ignore them or refuse to pay them.

If your country is serious about signature compaigns taxes, then let is prove your participate in the signature compaign.

I don't know about this but does one pay taxes if a company one works for is not registered in the country you find yourself? If not then I think we're not obliged to pay any tax to anyone, but where they can get tax from is when you're cashing out. You'll definitely need to pay for transaction fees and I think the banks already inculcate that in our fiat/crypto exchange fees.

If you don't know then why are you spreading misinformation and causing even more confusion for people? A company doesn't have to be registered in your home country for you to be able to work for it. If you're a self-employed contractor then you can work anywhere and you are responsible for paying your own taxes on income earned and you should look up your local tax laws to find out how much you should be paying. And as I've said before banking or exchange fees are not taxes nor do they pay taxes for you.

Signature campaigns reward is such a small amount to be considered as taxable. I think that bitcoin is not taxable not unless we converted it into fiat therefore it will be consider as our income and the government has the right to put taxes on it bit still it depends on how big amount is it. Actually i am into long term investment and my bitcoins are still intact and not a lawyer aswell. So my ideas are not that broad. I just speak on what i think it was.

Many people lost records by accident.

Cryptsy, Mintpal, Gox, many many other random exchanges of back in the day, dead and so is your altcoin trading history, what then? You didn't do anything illegal, only trade BTC for alts back and forth, BTC earned in sig campaigns, made some gains and so on, but the trading history was lost in the hack/bankruptcy/whatever random reason these shitty exchangers died randomly. Many of us are affected by this. I have records, but not from Mintpal!

And even if you have records, is it enough? they could claim the screenshot or excel spreadsheet file is fake. Why should they believe it? no way to know by looking at blockchain transactions either. If they believe spreadsheets and screenshots, people could just fake these and launder criminal money.

These doubts, lead people to just hold in BTC.

In some countries, doubt may be enough for confiscation. You don't know every jurisdiction in the world.

The mixed coins are a good point too. If you ever used a mixer, to test, then these coins are lost, as in, you can never sell them. There is a risk that the mixed coins you receive have some criminal links... it would be a problem selling these coins in an exchange, unfortunately. Some people didn't think about this years ago, now they are stuck with never selling, or never being able to buy anything big, that could raise government alarms. They could ask, and then you couldn't explain the origin, since the inputs are mixed.

You must keep track of every input and output of transactions, very annoying but necessary.

As always, taxation must be based on the country of residence. We must monitor the legislation of our country in the field of taxation of the crypto currency. After all, there are no two countries with the same taxation and even such a specific object of taxation as a crypto currency. In general, from the practice of other countries, we can conclude that this depends on the amount of revenue from the received tokens and how you did with them. But if the tax authorities do not bother you about this, then it is better not to raise this issue.

Some countries doesn't recognize this yet and yet more people are still not telling it to their government except for their personal information registered in their country's exchanges. Most exchanges doesn't accept crypto as a main source of income that's why you have to put your previous works there in order for them to accept it because they were under the government banks which provides money to every transaction of crypto they made.

It is taxable because if you hold the Bitcoin without withdrawing them to your fiat currency then there is no need to pay taxes on it. As long as if you hold the Bitcoin which you are getting through the signature campaign then there is no need to pay taxes on it. The only thing when you convert to your fiat currency you need to pay taxes, once governments legalise the Bitcoin then you need to pay taxes on Bitcoin without even converting to fiat currency also.

If you use Fiat means that you have to pay taxes by law, but if in the crypto currency, then there is no need!

It's your own responsibility to keep records backed up. Do you just keep your bitcoins in once place and if they get stolen, lost or destroyed you're shit outta luck? You'll have to check with your local tax authority on what excuses they will accept, though. I'm sure if your house burns down then they would make an exception for that, but not if you just claim "my dog ate my tax records" or "I lost them".


Well this is something you'd have to tell them and hope they understand. It certainly isn't an excuse for not paying taxes though, otherwise everyone would do it. If you can prove an exchange went down or lost your details then I'm sure they'd understand, but you should be keeping records as soon as you make the transactions to avoid any issues further down the line.


How do any other businesses pay their taxes? How does somebody who sells cakes out of a cake shop prove they sold as many cupcakes as they claimed? How much did they actually spend on sugar and flour? You keep records and receipts. Businesses keep spreadsheets of in goings and outgoings and pay taxes on their profits. People can just make up a spreadsheet and receipts of course, but if you ever get audited you'll have to provide reasonable proof to back up your claims. Keep records of every bitcoin you receive and every time you sell them. Take screenshots of your transactions and you usually get some sort of email receipt when you cash out coins and that is good enough proof. You people seem to be looking for excuses to try get out of paying taxes, but believe me, your tax authority will not accept any of these as valid excuses. You'll get fines and possibly even jail time if they can prove you have purposely avoided paying taxes due and all the excuses of "I didn't know what taxes to pay", or "it's too difficult to know how much I should be paying" will just be laughed at in court.

There's no specific bracket on how much tax percentage will be applied to signature campaigns. And yet there's no regulations on all cryptocurrency or bitcoin's decentralized currency to be taxable unless the country itself has their own tie ups against digital currency. I think people doesn't have an excuse here, but of course every country has their own rights towards digital currency transactions and with banking affiliations; the taxes were paid alone on its private sector that handles the bank. Government is the main controller of every currencies incoming and outgoing transactions from trading sites towards the local bank.

When I put my coins in Mintpal to trade I was waiting for confirmations to end, I went to sleep, woke up next morning, and then the exchange had disappeared, I was waiting for confirmations to take the trading history screenshot. This is plain bad luck, not a fucking excuse, it's what happened. It's more like what excuses they will find to confiscate my money.

Also some exchangers are straight scams, like Livecoin which says (in TINY font) "we only save records for the past 30 days". A lot of people didn't see the tiny font, now they lost many trading records, until they realize the stupid idea of not keeping records permanently or at least having it in big font. C'mon!! fuck that. These things just force people to hold these coins and never ever report. What would be the point anyway? you are already screwed.




I have all of my transactions in Bitcoin Core, I took screenshots of most transactions and trading history, but I was unlucky with Mintpal. Also I have some coins mixed, these I understand I can't never sell now.

Im not looking for excuses to not pay taxes, I just don't want them to find excuses to fuck my hard earned bitcoins up by stealing them from me because some unlucky moment which made me lose some of my trading history. Since there are no guarantees of what happens in this situation, it's safer to hold and look for other people's experience in the same situation, don't be a guinea pig for the goverment's legislation on crypto guys.

Again im not trying to not pay taxes, understand the situation here.

And if governments don't cooperate, they will just scare away holders which will leave to more friendly jurisdictions in this matter, and they will miss on all these juicy taxes while the friendlier country benefits.

to my knowledge as long as I join this forum and follow some signature campaigns at the time of payment I have never received tax or there is a tax bill such as reduced fee or anything else, but I am taxed when sending my bitcoin to lan wallet and that too small.

Im interested in knowing if OP ever cashed out some of his bitcoin gains obtain through signature campaign participation. He is still active, he was posting 2 days ago.

I would like to know how it went for you, which information did they request when you cashed out and when filing taxes (how did you prove licit origin of funds). Also did you get hit by any penalties for not paying taxes before or something? Let us know.

Maybe needed a little help on telling him about this thread that he did create thru Pm'ming clarifying on whats the solution he had made on such situation.This is already an old
thread and 4 months since on the last reply and was supposed to say that this is necroposting but basing on such question it is really considerable for us to know on what did
really happen for him to get out.

maybe for those who always judge something with this result it is very small, but the signature campaign that is the goal is not the result of money but more in recognition, or legality, because bitcoin once again needs a real recognition or effect in the world of commerce, so it all depends assessment of some of the world community, the most important thing is that bitcoin needs all the support from its users.

I don't believe it's necroposting. As far as I know this is the most active thread on the subject of signature campaign taxes. Why create another thread for the same subject.

Anyway, if you get a reply from him via PM then tell him to check out the thread and hopefully he can reply. His last post is on 15th and he is wearing a signature so he is still getting payments I presume. I wonder how he solved his situation or if he just decided to hold it all to not risk getting in trouble with the taxman without everything ready when they ask for details.

Paying taxes in the Government is one of responsibility of citizen to its country whether we like it or not. For me, It depends on your country. If your country adopted bitcoin and it has a regulation about taxes then you have a responsibility to pay taxes. Well, as far as I know taxes applied if you are using your native currency to pay something, trades or in transaction.

Maybe virtually they cannot see you evading your taxes but physically they can. The way they see how you are living in which in their eyes does not satisfy with your income makes them suspicious on how you can afford such lifestyle even though your income does not support it. This is how most of the tax evaders gets caught because of how they live which contradicts on how much they earn.

Is there really such tax exemption? Because I wonder why all europeans still use Euro if they can avoid taxes if they purely use cryptocurrencies as mode of payment. Sounds dumb isn't it? Because if there is such law that exist no one will be using Euro today in order to avoid taxes.

If I have any earnings which come directly from cryptocurrency and I receive that coins in my personal wallet (not any online site with KCY) I'd really be a fool to pay any tax. I can spent my coins directly to pay services and products anywhere in the world, of course I will not buy a house or Lambo to draw attention of tax office.

All Europeans do not even know what is BTC, and you wonder why they use Euro instead of crypto? Sounds pretty dumb that you think converting fiat to crypto means avoidance of tax, we are talking about income from signature campaigns - they are paid in crypto and if they stay or become spended as crypto payment only tax user will pay is VAT.

However some people live in total fear of their governments, and they literally begging tax offices to take their money.

I have to agree with you. I myself won't report anything officially with regards to my signature campaign earnings as it is just enough to fly under the radar of our taxing bureau, what I meant about that is the amount of weekly earnings I receive from my campaign is also counted in the income tax bracket where citizens are exempted from paying tax in my country so I don't need to worry about breaking any laws.

Another scenario I am concerned with is the trouble it will produce if I reported my earnings in a signature campaign. The headache and time it will cause if the taxing department issued a requirement of proof about my "signature campaign earnings" will be too much for me. Of course I can't give no more than the spreadsheet link of the campaign I am participating as proof where I also need to to convert the BTC payment I receive in its fiat currency equivalent every time I receive a payment which honestly I haven't done so far.

Just like Lucius and Theb, I don't treat my Bitcoins as taxable income. In fact, according to the law in my country, I'm not obliged to report my Bitcoin holdings and pay taxes unless I cash out. Technically, buying goods is considered selling, so I should pay taxes at that point, but It's almost impossible to prove, especially if you spend your coins abroad  ordering things online, and these aren't very expensive things. The tax office doesn't care if someone spends 2000€ worth of Bitcoins a year on electronics. Of course, if I ever buy a house or an expensive car, I'll make sure the transaction is legal, and so should you.

As what you have suggested it is better to use crypto currency in direct spending to avoid taxes. Here in my country, Bitcoin will be subject to tax only during fiat convertion thru our local exchanges so either how or why you have a Bitcoin is not a big deal for our government but as long as it will not involve huge amount of fiat during conversion.

We are not talking about if you can get caught by receiving payments directly in BTC and never converting them into BTC. Of course that is practically impossible, the only way would be if for some reason a business in which you paid with BTC got audited and the BTC payment was linked to your name somehow.

But anyway, the main point here is, if you save your signature campaign earnings, and in 5 to 10 year BTC is worth $100,000 to $1,000,000, then what would be the point of being rich if you can only spend your money on snacks and McDonalds? it's just nonsense. When you get rich you are going to want to buy a nice house and whatnot. And there is the problem. You are going to need to prove that the origin of the funds is legit, and I haven't seen anyone do this. Again: Will they ask for screenshots of the threads? signed addresses? what if some of the history is missing? For instance, I got some missing trading history for some coins... all of this just gives me a massive headache. Not to mention the risk of any penalties which in some jurisdictions are massive and you start thinking if it's worth the risk. But again, what's the point of being rich if you cannot spend it on relevant life changing stuff like a house.

During this time I also do not know the mechanism that must be done, whether by getting something income from bitcoin is considered as a livelihood and is required to pay taxes. because usually when I get from bitcoin when changing in the form of money in a service company a discount is always made, whether that also includes tax deductions. maybe because I myself do not know the form of tax that must be imposed. as long as there are no bills and not yet in the form of rules, it may be ignored first.

Yes you can avoid taxes this way but you cant escape the transaction fees  which is still simillar to taxes  .

signature campaigns doesnt have a tax because its only an online job that is not hold by government .

we also use cryptos here which isnt also regulated by banks but even other online jobs that pays in other currency or payment method such as paypal didnt also have a taxes  .

Tax is only aplicable to offline environment  .

This is so wrong. Where are you where that applies? Any income is taxable typically on all countries. If you make money online, you aren't magically exempt of paying any taxes.

If you sell something online, if you have a forum or website with ads... anything that gives you money, the government is going to want a cut like it or not, so stop spreading misinformation that can put people in problem.

Now the problem with Bitcoin is that is extremely new and most people started before governments ever saw anything about it, so they are sitting on all that money and have no idea what to do with it in terms wanting to buy some property for instance. If you made that money posting, then traded altcoins in dead exchanges, then you cash out this money... they ask for proof and you are missing the trades on said dead exchanges.. what are you supposed to do then?

I think that in the future we will be forced to pay a certain amount of tax only when we convert the cryptocurrency earned in subscription campaigns to fiat and then it will be charged impersonal, automatically, by banks and exchangers. It is unlikely that a more complex tax collection mechanism will be established in my country. Otherwise, the population simply will not pay any taxes on cryptocurrency. Perhaps, therefore, the issue is resolved at the legislative level in order to remove any tax on profits from operations with cryptocurrency.

Yes, you can even now when you are converting your Bitcoin from the signature campaign into cash, you must pay the transaction fee when you are going to cashing out of this and that is considered for me of paying tax. But when it comes Bitcoin itself that is impossible to happen or it takes a long time before it happens due to decentralized Bitcoin. If your country now doesn't implement that let's just enjoy the opportunity and don't bother your self on that matter.

Things are not really clear with the crypto tax honestly so I would not waste my time thinking about that and I will just enjoy all my profits. And you need only to explain yourself if you are buying houses and cars with the rewards you get from campaigns but I am sure that you don't so nobody will investigate you.

I am just showing the bitcoin earned to fiat currency as product sold and just giving the tax for the profit. because their is no other option to show the profit and even now it is not legal to use bitcoin so cannot show more.

Depends on the country that you live, as long as you're paying the right tax which is declared upon buying a property or car you have to comply with the legalities required for acquiring that asset. As implied by others, if you have earned through any means of signature campaign or bounty rewards you have to declare it as something you gained which is taxable. Such countries will just consider it as you've earned online and won't be specific about it.

It has being a year now and what is the situation now, have you paid any taxes on the amount you have acquired till now and how you are dealing it, there is nothing much of an issue here, if you have bitcoin if you have invested or got through any other way, you can submit it as income from other sources and you can pay your taxes,  since there are no clear regulation on how to pay those taxes in most countries that is how most are paying their taxes to be on right side of the law. 

You have a point there, I'm just curious how to pay taxes using your Bitcoin because I haven't experience on that. We're so lucky that our government didn't impose any law regarding paying tax on crypto. However, they recognized Bitcoin is the other option of making the transaction online. I think from your earning in the signature you can pay tax by that if you are going to convert fiat and there's a transaction fee which I consider a tax.

Signature campaign taxes are within the US jurisdiction. Any residual incomes will be taxed.

..as many others thought,,paying taxes depends upon the country you belong,,your earning in signature campaigns is not that too high for you to pay tax on it,,but if that coins you earn,you converted it into fiat currency and save it on your bank accounts,,then propably you will going to pay your taxes if your government have found out that you are earning a lot..the volatility of Bitcoin price is unevitable,,so i am just wondering on how you are going to pay your tax in bitcoin,,because there is no fix price on what you are paying for.

It isn't a tax but a fee on such conversion and its not being part nor those funds would come into tax institution.On countries which do accepts or recognize bitcoin like Philippines they might not
asking for any tax as of this moment but if the transactions becomes rampant and involving big amounts then sooner or later they will consider on having a law to imply taxation on any possible income on a certain person have.

As stated that each country applies a different system in determining taxes, including cryptocurrency. For the signature tax that has not been taxed, because the success rate or after success in ICO and coin is sold freely in the crypto market, the price does not necessarily increase. So, it is still speculative, because the benefits obtained are still unclear.
This is different from the more open stock market where the government can know and intervene in regulations, especially those related to taxes.

this topic has been made for almost 1 year, precisely when the initial collapse of the price of all digital money in all exchanges and signature income can be said to be quite large but for now it is no longer the case before so many members of Fakum are temporarily

For me ,
Making our assets crypto is a secret, if you put all your assets in cryptic form, how do they know how much money you currently have?
For me the signature campaign is extraordinary income, no agency that controls all anonymous transfers, making it difficult for the agency they manage.

Secret ?  Well what if i tell you that most crypto coins are not private or anonymous but  A couple of privacy coins are the real one 


Sig campaigns are owned by a big company and i think they also have an agency that controlls and regulate them .   in short the owner can still be taxed but not us who work on a signature campaign .

I don't think it can be taxed because the signature campaign is not necessarily successful. If you also succeed, the coins obtained in the market are uncertain about getting a positive response.
Therefore, according to me, the signature campaign cannot be taxed yet, because if it is subject to initial tax, the campaign hunters will decrease in carrying out their duties and the results will be negative in the campaign.

I've just PMd the OP, in order to see if he can come forward and summarize how he resolved his situation. On the Spanish local board there are other people with exactly the same concerns now, and what would be extremely valuable is to get the OP’s real case resolution feedback of someone retrieving their BTC through a FIAT conversion + Taxation process (specifically in Spain, where the OP’s case is based).

Edit: I obvioulsy asked him in the PM if he could come back to this thread and provide additional feedback, as well as on a Spanish local board thread that was created yesterday with the same context. We'll see ..

Much better to remind him on posting to this thread once again so that users or members of this community would be aware on how the situation is being handled or resolved.

Taxation will vary on how the government do implement it on all sectors including cryptocurrency market.If they can able to track out crypto-fiat transactions then taxation
would come next.On my current country situation they are still in neutral and banks doesnt still matter nor care about transactions came from crypto.

think they are talking about your personal gains not the company that sponsors the signature campaign
regardless of how successful the campaign itself is , if you as a participant are gaining income
it is subject to taxes , under some jurisdictions ( this is such a grey area , though )
even in a country like the US different states have different rules
so if I were you I'd just consult a lawyer instead of relying on some forum member's wisdom

The main problem I see is that lawyers are probably not really aware of how much a grey area bitcoin and crypto in general is. Im not sure if both layers and the state itself knows how to properly tax something as "exotic" as signature campaign earnings paid in bitcoin, of all things, which is what leads most people to simply hold it given the uncertainty that is selling it and then entering a sort of a lottery in which you may or not get screwed up by whomever official is dealing with your case.

Most likely seeing real life experience from people selling and then reporting back here how it went is as useful and realistic as it can get.

Here too it is a little complicated to know how to consider it and therefore how to declare it. When you make an appointment at the tax department they don't know how to answer you and don't know who to contact for a reliable answer. We are currently in the process of declaring it in one of our sections that can be described as "extra earnings", as long as it does not exceed a certain amount annualy otherwise you are considered professional. (facepalm). I don't even dare to think for the companies that transact with cryptos from their customers.

Well, that is a case to case basis if where you live. As what DdmrDdmr said, OP was on Spain that probably they are too strict in implementing taxation. I feel so much lucky we're not on the same country which I am freely here to used crypto with no taxation.

Well, let's wait when the OP visit again this thread. :)

A couple of days ago, the OP got back to us on a Spanish Local thread (see re: Campañas de firmas y impuestos... alguien ha vendido cantidades importantes? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5123129.msg50270604#msg50270604)). I did encourage him to come back to this thread and provide is situation feedback, and hope he will do so shortly.  

I think it would be really valuable to get real case testimonials from forum members that have undergone the taxation procedure under different legislations and prisms (i.e. crypto earned through campaigns and/or trade and/or mining). After all, at some point or other, however much “hodlers” we may be, at some point or other we may need to convert to FIAT (whilst direct crypto purchases are still scarce).

The specific case that triggered me to look into this was a cry for help from someone on my local board, that was in the (nearly) exact situation as the OP, needing to undergo the FIAT conversion in the short run due to personal circumstances.  

As per OPs contribution on my local board, and whilst waiting for a follow-up on this thread, the following is a translation of the above referenced local thread response from the OP:


“Well, the solution was rather ‘simple’ since it turns out that legally, there is no clear defined criteria. In fact, I talked to various people, expert lawyers in crypto, and the tax office, and they seemed to be uncertain themselves.  

The taxation office is currently extremely flexible. The fact that you want to declare your earnings is seen as something positive, and even if you do not have a complete track of all your operations, and cannot really prove every single TX, the taxation office will really not do much to you.

What I did was gather all the possible information I had (most of the larger exchanges let you obtain a copy of your trades), all that I could relating to the signature campaigns, as well as gains originated on the forum and other places. It’s all rather subjective, since after all, one cannot justify 100% of it all, but as I said, nothing (bad) is really going to happen.

It would be best though to check with an adviser/lawer, and let him guide you through the process of filling-in the legal forms; they helped me a lot.

In terms of (tax) percentages, they use this table:
From 0 to 6.000 euros of Capital gain = 19%.
From 6.000 to 50.000 euros = 21%.
More than 50.000 euros = 23%.  “


The above is part of the taxation system in Spain, where by capital gains are taxed according to the given ranges of value. It takes into account a bunch of conceptual gain origins, so other income is also to be considered and thrown into the same summarized bundle (i.e. income from bank accounts).

In summary, as I see it, in Spain the basis for crypto taxation are not crystal clear, and those that proceed can wiggle their way through to legality if they wish. I do figure though that each person´s situation could vary and the outcome related somewhat to whom one encounters at the other end of the desk ...

some hefty taxes in Spain  :o 23% if >50k euros
think France is the worst one in whole European Union in terms of taxation
as for the tax office ,they wil lbe happy if you come and declare your profit in crypto and I don't think they will nag you too much
the problem is how it is impossible to tell how all of the deductions and taxation would work if you were to run a business that uses fiat-bitcoin conversion or pays wages in crypto
this is an extremely grey area , has been and will remain that for some time

If you convert and crypto coins to fiat then you should pay taxes on it which ever country you are in. However, as the unknown coins - most of which are worthless shitcoins - are in unspendable currencies it is not worth declaring as they are untaxable.

Care to say where are you from? I would like to know how it goes for you, keep us posted. It would be useful to know what amount are you selling. I know its none of your business but its really relevant to know what to expect depending on which amounts are being dealt with. Typically the higher the amount the deeper the audit I would guess.

Another point that could be made is.. assuming you present screenshots of the payments for the forum posts, couldn't they just know your entire earnings? they would know your forum account and thus figure the entire history, so you would need to sell the entire stack? What if I just don't want to and want to keep it and only sell a small %? All these things keep me up at night, I just don't know what to do to be honest.

The conclusion thus far for me is that governments have no idea what they are doing neither do accountants, so there's really nowhere to go in terms of safety, other than not doing anything and deciding what to do in the future.

^

It's just like in that story about tax authorities someone once told me. Some guy had a couple of apartments rented out and wanted to know if it's considered a profession and if he has to register a business. One office told him that he doesn't have to register it unless his revenue exceeds a certain amount, another told him that if he has less then 10 apartments he doesn't have to and the third said that if he has more than 3 he has to register.
Those were all official responses from authorities located in different districts of the same country. Sometimes it's really better to stay off the radar and avoid any interaction with these people. At least until the law becomes clear.

That's right. If to cash out by little like 50-100$ a month a bank won't has any pretensions to those money. Taxation is more about big sum of money which source you should represent to the bank and taxation system.

I report it as an income. It was the best thing to do in my case. I preferred to think large, so even if I'm wrong, in the worst case they will have to pay me money as a refund. I won't be blamed for trying to hide an income. Which is getting more and more difficult in France anyway, especially since now they use big data to hunt down fraud and all that.
The good thing is I am paying about 6% only (instead of ~35%). and to be safe I keep track of every trade I do with it ref # etc. since the govt now ask us to report every crypto exchange account (or a fine of 750€ if I'm correct)

It doesn't matter how much you cash out, you're being paid in something with value and that's the place you're taxed.

Of course if you don't bother reporting it in most places no one's going to find out, but you might be setting yourself up for future problems if they choose to sniff around. Again, the likelihood is low.

And for some campaigns the payouts can easily take you above your tax allowance. I can't be bothered to add it up but it's quite possible I went over mine last year purely from the campaign I'm in. If the price had stayed high it would've been not too far off the average salary where I am.

Often, the honesty side to things springs from need. Until you really need to convert your crypto to FIAT, you can get away being under the radar (for now). It’s when one wants/needs to convert to FIAT that you need to bear in mind all the legal aspects it entails, alongside with knowing how to justify it properly in case of an inspection.

In Spain we are now in the season where we prepare our Statement of Income over 2018’s overall earnings. This year it seems, 14.700 Spanish residents are viewing a pop-up whist preparing the Statement of Income, reminding them that the benefits made from crypto operations are subject to taxation. The message is not random or a general reminder to all, but specifically to a set of residents of which the tax office has information about in relation to their crypto operations.

How the tax office knows exactly is unknown, but likely, they have targeted all bank accounts that receive FIAT transfers from known exchanges, being the Spanish banks the ones who provide this information to the tax office. One could try to go through alternatives such as Localbitcoins, but many consider it risky.

Most likely they got the memo from entering details on KYC exchanges. So assuming they have the trading history they should be ok.. but there's some horror stories involving big % increases, followed by big sell-offs (as in 2017 peak and crash), then the guy losing the keys and owing taxes on the increased %. It depends on the country but something like this happened in the US I think.

In any case what this thread is about is how does one go about selling sig campaign earnings after years of hodling and probably losing a partial amount of information related to of the origin of funds (there's no way everyone has kept %100 of information... most sites of back then don't even exist today and I really doubt everyone took screenshots and if said screenshots would be enough proof at all). Due all the doubts surrounding this subject most have decided to just keep hodling, but eventually one will want to diversify and sell a % as BTC goes to new highs so we should know what to do before we need to do it.

I prefer your first point, do not tell them at all if you tell them the first time, you will have to do this to all your succeeding income taxes, and you will have to show proof that you are not doing well when the time comes that you cannot reach the amount that you filed the first time.

I went through all the three options. Here is my opinion about it:

1. If you don't want to convert your coins immediately to fiat, then you can go for this.
2. If you don't mind paying the 50% tax, then go ahead with this option. The safest route out of the three.
3. Crypto is more or less anonymous. But the moment you convert it to any other asset (fiat, goods, bullion.etc), that anonymity is lost. Keep that in mind.

In many of the countries, there is a limit after which the income is taxable. For example, here in India you can show income up to Rs. 50,000 as gift from strangers. After that amount, you need to pay taxes on the additional amount.

That's worth of $720, correct me with the exchange rate.

$1 = Rs 69.14

In some countries, that kind of amount should be taxed already whether it is a gift or in kind or income.

So signature campaign income is considered a gift in some countries?
Can you please clarify this, I know different taxation law in different countries, it's necessary how we treat out income in signature campaign for tax purposes.

I guess so, base on what he said you can declare that an income made on their country can be a gift from strangers including signature campaign profit.

But I think this only applies to their country because converting that amount of example looks high in other countries and it's already taxable.

The problem is some signature campaigns paid on websites and not directly on your BTC address, it was an address generated on a website, typically a lot of casino sites did this to promote signup registrations. Most of the sites are probably gone so what to do then?



Yeah in chipmixer im pretty sure you were able to make more than minimum income specially during the 2017 bubble.. so what will you do? Personally I think I have never made more than minimum income in my country but perhaps I was able to break at some months.

I really have no idea what im going to do if I wanted to cash out in fiat. It is really a mess. I have been in a fuckton of different campaigns and trying to gather all the data is hell. I have definitely lost some data because I got paid on websites (like fastdice, which no longer exists I think, and I have no data on that).


This is not the problem. The problem is, lets say you make 1 BTC from posting for a couple of years, then in 5 years 1 BTC is worth $1,000,000. What then?

tax arent also applicable to fiats because you can also pay your own tax using your cryptos . on some wallets there is already a feature where they can pay thier own tax contribution  .  the point here is not about frauds on why we should pay tax but its about the nature of our work . we are not a government workers . we are only working on this forum as a form of sideline job  . so why would we pay a tax ? 

agree it, how government know you get money if you not report your income?
i think people must report his income be honestly and transparently, so government can take the tax from your income.
but if we compare with youtube creator, i dont think bitcoin freelancer must report his income because they never report his income too.

You don't need to report if you don't want to pay taxes, but that's against the law.
If only we can hide our income, it would better, and not everything we earn should be reported to the government, there is no freedom that way.
We comply what is required in the law, that's it, we have no choice as we will be in trouble in case.

Most of us don't want to break any laws, the main problem is the lack of certainty when it comes to what to expect from the government when you are cashing out something as strange as revenue out of posting on some forum, paid on a digital currency, not include giveaways, forks, and any other extremely-alien-to-government-official stuff. Add in the difficulty of tracking all of this (which as far as im concerned is impossible, I don't even know how much I own in forks since who even knows how many forks are out there). Then the fact that most exchanges are dead and you have most likely lost trading history, and they want you to report every altcoin to altcoin trade. How in the f*ck are you supposed to provide all of that information? Because of that, most have decided to just never cash out or at least wait and see what happens in the future, because it's too risky to do it now without knowing what to expect from the government, and there isn't enough evidence of people here selling and seeing what happens specially if you don't have all the info to back up the origin of the funds. If they screw you up at the very second you can't justify the origin of a BTC then what's the point.

In order to properly declare your earnings in signature campaign, might as well declare your earnings to tax haven countries.
You can have it declare without paying taxes or at most minimal amount of tax payments. Then you need to file income tax return for that country annually. After you have your earnings ready for transfer to your local banks, just present your income tax return to disclose the source of earnings. The problem with that is the reciprocity agreement between both countries. Make sure that your declaration of earnings in a tax haven country shall not be tax to your own country.

Signature campaigns works are comes under the service job taxes. Mostly you need to pay around 20 percentage as the tax in many countries. If you are spending the money from the card payment and purchase the things then automatically you are indirectly paying taxes on buying products.

So better consult with the legal advisors before you plan to pay your taxes for signature campaign earnings.

First of all, check whether Bitcoin is classified as a currency in your country or not. In 99% of the cases, it will be classified as an "asset" by the government. In such cases, the bitcoins that you receive from signature campaigns are not taxable (as long as these coins remain in your wallet).

However, the moment you convert them to fiat, the revenues from that sale become taxable. And the worst part is that whatever revenue that you receive will be 100% taxable as regular income. You can't show this amount as capital gains, to qualify for the lower tax rates.

This is my understanding of the situation. If someone disagrees with me, then please feel free to do so.

I second gentlemand's reply to the other post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3149393.msg50408668#msg50408668), and this also applies to Wayan_Pedjeng's post
taxation happens at the time you receive something (in any forms) regarded as income or addition to your wealth
if payment is in the form of bitcoin as an asset, the value of bitcoin at the time of transaction will be used for taxation

I still don't agree with this logic. Has the government recognized "Bitcoin" as an asset? Has it issued any notice stating that gains from the crypto-trading can be treated as capital gains? I am asking this because in my country only profits from stock trading, sale of bullion, sale of real estate.etc is specifically considered for capital gains. The income tax department has never issued any circular regarding Bitcoin.

And one more thing. How can they link my Bitcoin wallet or my Bitcointalk forum account back to me? What if I tell them that my father is using those accounts and I don't have any connection to them?

I don't know where you live, but under US tax law, none of this is unclear. The IRS released a memo (https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf) several years ago defining Bitcoin and other virtual currencies as "property" which subjects it to capital gains taxation.

Our tax laws were written loosely to capture all types of income. Signature campaign income would be taxable at the time of receipt as ordinary income. If you gain thereafter by selling for fiat, you'd be liable for capital gains tax as well.

It doesn't matter if you get compensated in cash or company stock or bitcoins -- all have a fair market value and are taxed as income. The IRS memo mentioned above also elaborates on how to deal with income tax when compensated in digital currency: