Bitcoin Forum

So after roughly a year of bitcoining I have come to the conclusion that mpex.co or Mircea Popescu Exchange (Formerly Mircea popescu options emporium?) does literally nothing but move bitcoins from one wallet to the next and in most cases ending up in Mircea Popescu's wallet.

30 Bitcoin Registration Fee and you get the choice of an failed video game company, bitbet.us (not sure why they need funding with all the fees), and MPOE itself whose profits consist mostly of those 30 bitcoin registration fees.

Normally "investing" is when you give capital to someone who needs it to create something of value. I don't see any value coming out of mpex.co whatsoever. Their biggest success story is a gambling website (again not really creating value, just taking btc from one person and giving it the next.)

One last thing that does not really prove that mpex.co is a scam but I cant be the only one to notice that Mircea Popescu speaks like a sci-fi super-villain.

I would love for someone to explain to me how mpex.co is not a scam bit I simply cannot understand.

In the end it looks like Mircea Popescu is walking away with 30,000 btc (according to some richest bitcoiners thread)

Has anyone else besides him made a profit from the site?

With Bitcoin breaking the $1,000 barrier, it is extremely risky to invest in these crypto-stocks anymore. I have learnt my lesson after I lost half of all my bitcoins in BTC-TRADING-PT.  You never know when these exchanges will shut down. Better not to invest in them.

More like 700k (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=321265.msg3449849#msg3449849).

ok you have 700k btc or roughly 700 milllion usd invested in your company.

What the fuck do you even do?? Seriously how can you justify nearly a billion usd company evaluation when you literally have no value.

To clarify look at asicminer. They make asic hardware and mine bitcoins. What do you do?

And it made it even without any basic css work, amazing.

What I learned from investing in the bitcoin world is that you don't need to do anything but sit tight on your coins.

MP is and has been the only major thing happening in BTC. See here (http://trilema.com/2013/in-which-noobs-learn-lessons-and-pay-for-the-privilege/), for instance.

MP says what's what and who's who. That's what he does.


This is correct, look at the S.MG (http://trilema.com/category/smg/) reports for instance.

And for that matter: MPEx paid ~85k BTC dividends over ~850k mkt cap in fiscal year 2012 (May to May (http://trilema.com/2013/mpex-one-year-of-dividends/)).

Meanwhile Asicminer, since you happened to use that example, paid about 50% more, for a significantly lower valuation. This is what you get for having poor management (http://trilema.com/2013/the-analysis-of-a-failure-asicminer/) instead of MP.

Ok so it is your blog that is worth nearly 1 billion USD? I noticed you charge an incredible 0.01 btc for unlimited reading access is this your only source of revenue?

I would love to know what the "ministry of games" does if you could provide a link that is from any source other than your own.

As for the ~85k BTC dividends, Impressive but where did that come from?

This is the best part. With a 1 billion USD website you would think that they could hire a css web designer for a week or even a day costing ~1btc at the most.

Listen, you can go say the same thing on the yahoo finance boards associated with JPM, "oh, so is the JPM blog the source of revenue??!!?!?!?"

There's no requirement for you to understand what's going on, or agree with it, or sign off on it. This is why you're irrelevant, that's the definition of the term.

Reality just is what it is, whether palatable or not, acceptable or not. You may submit to it, go do your reading, learn what's what and change to match, or else enjoy insanity, play on forums and reddit all day and so on.

JPMorgan Chase & Co. is an American multinational banking and financial services holding company, and the largest bank in the United States by assets

If you think JPmorgan consists of only a blog, you might be the one out of touch with reality. JP Morgan owns more shit than any bitcoiner can dream of and it is because of over a hundred years of dominating market after market.

So what exactly do you do? Are you a bank?

You keep telling me I don't understand what you do and you are right. I don't think anybody understands what you do and we want to know.

MPEx is the largest Bitcoin financials entity, by a very large margin. JPM is 1-2% of the fiat market, MPEx is somewhere way up over two thirds of the Bitcoin space.

Which is why MPEx is valued at about 5% of all Bitcoin and JPM at about 0.0x% of all fiat.

Do you hold 5% of all bitcoins? JPM has a massive amount of money and a massive amount of revenue streams. How much bitcoins does MPEx hold and what sources of revenue are adding to that?

Figure it out, sparky.

Bullshit.

Have you seen the MPEX web site? Case closed. User ignored.

go to mpex, pay mpex 30 bitcoins, profit?

LOL.  You're a comic genius.

Isn't MPEX the only place you can reliable underwrite and buy options against the USD value of BTC?

I would say this is value enough, given April 2013 would likely have been a lot worse had MPEx not existed.

The shareholder report for March: http://trilema.com/2013/mpoe-march-2013-statement/ kinda shows that.

Additionally, those who bought MPEx accounts in 2012, and as well bought S.MPOE before the 2nd batch of the IPO are likely all millionaires (in USD terms) at this point.

So to be honest, I really don't see how it is a scam. Perhaps the other businesses in their infancy seem a tad questionable, but MPOE-bot I think has proven itself as a valuable asset to the Bitcoin world as a whole.

What.. So options and the MPOE bot bring in enough revenue to justify nearly 1 billion dollars?

Again what do they do? Options are a fancy way of gambling but really no value is created so how exactly did this help bitcoin in april?

Also anyone holding large amounts of bitcoins during the time of mpex ipo would be a millionaire now in terms of usd but that is entirely because bitcoin has created huge value over the dollar not mpex.

Your avatar suits you well.

Wasn't Facebook valued at $85 billion while bringing in less than a 1% of that in revenue in 2011?

I don't see the issue here to be honest.

Not sure how Facebook is comparable to mpex.co.  Facebook has ad revenue and has established itself as a useful social media tool with potential to make bitchloads of revenue with the amount of users it has.

Does an options robot really justify the value of mpex.co?

I don't disagree that mpex.co made a few people very rich. But it still looks like all that happens on that site is taking btc from one unfortunate hand and giving it to the next (Probably ending up in mircea or other ipo shareholders pockets).

Well done brave Sir Lolcow. This is the story of your loss (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=348977.0).

No, actually, shares sold originally for 2k satoshi. Some of those people sold recently in the 70-80k satoshi range. That's a 40x increase, which actually outperformed BTC for most of the interval.

Lol, coming from a guy white knighting Havelock -- a company trying to pass off its ludicrous failed "IPO" as a "gift to [its] loyal supporters."

Again I am impressed with the profits you seem to have made I just have no idea where this money comes from. What do you do to create value?

Wow. I'm sorry MPOE-PR, you must have quite the patience to deal with this all day.

Volume of Mpex's non-Mpex stocks in the last month: 110 BTC

I'm still laughing that he values his worth as 5 % of all bitcoins in existence.

This can't be real.

A lot of financial related stuff creates the impression of being without any value for some.

The sad truth is that a lot of PR's statements have some valid point to some distinct.* That an exchange with four stocks, which are trading on lowish volume, all involving the creator (probably a good thing in this case) and some option trading, has such a high valuation seems to tell a lot of Bitcoin world. But this is probably just half of the truth: MPEx is rock solid, innovative (GPG order system!) and seemingly profitable for investors. MPEx' alleged irrelevance is also not the only reason why it survived three other exchanges and is probably here to stay for a long time.

http://trilema.com/category/mpex/ provides some further insight. Here (http://trilema.com/2013/mpex-ddosed-an-epic/) is a good example, that it's more than a shitty website from the 90s.

*Especially sad, because many have a (sometimes eye-opening) "cold, hard reality" character. ;)

I must say that mpoe pr is probably the most active bitcoin pr person I have seen. But sadly I think this is because mpoe/mpex profits are directly tied to the amount of unfortunate noobs who pay 30btc to register and fail with options.

I honestly don't think mpoe has a problem dealing with questions lime mine as all he does all day is advertise his website/blog on other somewhat related threads.

Not sure what your point is. Looks like you just quoted a trillema post. So is it the "solid functionality" or "innovative gpg order system" that makes it worth 1 billion? I don't think your post clears up any confusion.

Jimmothy, egalitarian predisposition is my one great weakness, but even i will concede that there are things too complex for a feller like yourself to ever understand.
And no amount of explainin' will make one bit of difference.
If i could only undo the slights dealt you by fate and poor breeding...  At this point... nothing can be done :-\

The quasi-options available are generally priced by a bot which maintains a usurious spread and ludicrous levels of implied volatility frequently far above historical volatility -- making them a perfect way to extract cash from those who don't ignore the place entirely because they don't realise there are cheaper ways of doing this stuff. As for reliability, the operator claims in his site's FAQ that he "doesn't hedge...options positions".

However, a reliable market maker -- one which does not introduce inordinate levels of counterparty risk -- does not enter into naked positions. (No pun intended, despite MP's history of involvement in the Romanian porn industry: I mean naked options positions). Not entering naked positions means, for example, taking a long position in the underlying whenever one becomes net short in calls on that underlying. This type of hedge is part and parcel of any competent market making activity in derivatives. Failing to do so means failing to deliver under a non-trivial set of possible market outcomes. (It also means profiteering by continuing to run that risk of failing to deliver and not spending the resources to reduce that risk.)

As far as I can tell, judging by the shellacking which the bot sometimes takes, the claim about failing to hedge is correct. This suggests that with respect to options market making, the operation is not reliable from the standpoint of counterparty risk. To someone not paying attention to the counterparty risk which is necessarily introduced by a failure to hedge, the operation may appear to be perfectly safe and reliable...right up until it isn't. This is little different than the appearance that a 20-sided die will never come up showing '1', because it hasn't yet done so during your first 10 rolls.

Oh, and just as a reference point, the combined revenue for MPOE options contracts sold during August, September, and October was something around 2180 BTC.

The current open interest on ICBIT just in the March 2014 BTC/USD futures contract is 387,424, while volume is showing at a little under $13 million. I have no idea what the site's revenue on that volume might be. But it's interesting that during just the last 7 days, the top trader on ICBIT generated a profit of around 755 BTC, and during the last 30 days, the corresponding figure was 1877 BTC. In other words, the profit generated by just one trader during the last 30 days is approaching the entire MPOE options revenue across all contracts for a 3-month period.

ICBIT carries significant counterparty risk too, but at least it comes clean about it, as distinct from disingenuously promoting a failure to hedge as a positive point, rather than as an indication of what it really is.

EDIT: Clarified my wording about revenues and volumes.

Glad to see your long history of talking about things you don't either know or comprehend hasn't ended yet.

MP happens to be the first and the only guy in BTC that neither enters into naked positions nor allows others to do so (much to their chagrin).

Read up on how the MPOE bot is financed, try and comprehend it, stop making a fool of yourself.

PS. MP covered 10s of ks of Bitcoins' worth of trading losses so that all you fuckwits could have a Bitcoin in the first place, that is to say so this thing you imagine you're being part of could continue its destiny, unrelated to your own lives as that may be.

Interesting. Perhaps then you would enjoy deigning to explain to we mere mortals how one reconciles the following two statements:

1) I do not enter into naked (translation for current purposes: unhedged) options positions.

2) I do not hedge options positions.

Oh do tell, so that we may be enlightened.

Alternatively -- much as I suggested to you the last time you started throwing the weight of your own confusion around over in one of my threads where I had just rejected the possibility of listing on MPEx -- perhaps you'd like to run off and find a colleague or two who has acquired some investing experience elsewhere than while toddling around during Bitcoin's brief childhood, and first ask for an outside opinion on this ludicrous excuse for options market making.

You've never heard of MPBOR, have you.

Here, seems MP was amused enough with all this nonsense to write an article even. Revisiting the topic of “economic injustice”, with examples (http://trilema.com/2013/revisiting-the-topic-of-economic-injustice-with-examples/).

Was the request to back up your condescension with substance too hard for you? Remember, all you have to do is explain how one never enters naked options positions, while simultaneously never hedging options positions.

Or did you mean for hand-waving references to borrowing to somehow accomplish this magical feat all by itself?

Part of what makes your idiocy so delicious is your amusing expectations to be instructed for free, forcibly, while kicking and screaming.

I'll make you kick and scream, sure, but I ain't instructing your bulbously barren head.

I think the thread title is misleading, in that I don't think Mpex is a scam. It seems to offer securities and people buy them - job done.

However the more relevent question is whether it is over-valued and that would seem to be the case. MPOE is trading at 0.00079937 per share with 1bn shares = 800k BTC (or a staggering 1bn USD roughly).

The income is massively volatile but appears as follows:

Oct 261 BTC
Sept 21 BTC
Aug 1779 BTC

So for the last 3 months the total was 2,061 BTC, which if annualised is 8,244 BTC

Thus for the last quarters data ONLY the stocks would seem to be trading at 97x earnings or a div yield of 1.0%. This seems incredibly low in Bitcoin world, compared to most stocks that yield 10-30%.

I await any corrections from MPOE-PR. :)

The rest of us here on planet Earth will take your latest playground antics as an admission that your claims regarding never hedging options positions while simultaneously never entering naked options positions are every bit as laughable as they appeared when you first made them -- while your allusion to MPBOR smacks of proof by reference to converging irrelevancies.

I don't feel as though the title is misleading and here's why:

Securities are traded but have little value and produce little returns. Of course besides s.mpoe which I an having a hard time understanding exactly where the dividends come from.

I have a feelinh that mr popescu is using the 30btc registration fees to pay dividends. If that is the case then it is most definitely a scam. If he is  earning his entire dividends using the options bot then it is not a scam but an elaborate gambling scheme.

I could be wrong and those 30btc may go to a legit cause that actually creates value in some way but I simply can't figure it out.

Sorry for asking but that guy compares MPEx (whatever that is) with JP Morgan? Is he for real or just kidding?
I stopped reading after that so i can't really tell.

It keeps you out.

Dividends for S.MPOE come from profits of MPEx. Those revenue comes primarily (two-thirds according to the october report) from
1) registration fees.
2) trade fees on MPEx.

So what are people primarily trading on MPEx? Well, S.MPOE shares. That's right, most of the profit of S.MPOE holders comes from getting new people to join and trade S.MPOE shares.

While unlikely to be intentional, this makes it more and more of a pyramid scheme.

Those fees are income and are paid as dividends. Provided all the income is legitimate and is paid away after expenses there's nothing about it thats a scam.

The fact that some people are willing to pay 97x earnings is not a scam it's stupidity, but the market price is not determined by the operator, but by the buyers/sellers.

I cannot believe I'm defending them given how much abuse their PR throws out, but nevertheless I do seem to be..... !

You might not consider this a scam but I and many others do. When your main source of revenue is from your users "stupidity" you know you are not running a legit operation.

Considering mr popescu spends all his time recruiting new users and blog viewers I am still going to stick with my first conclusion that this is nothing but a scam/scheme.

This question is at the very least ancient. Is S.MPOE really worth that much ?! (http://trilema.com/2012/is-smpoe-really-worth-that-much/) That was back in Dec 2012, and at the time,



Why annualize when you have monthly reports going back all the way to before anyone here had even heard of Bitcoin? Just add up the months.


And compared to pirate's bank or to what some guy dreamt while asleep among cockroaches and potato chips these other things you call stocks (but aren't in any way stocks) are also showing a very poor yield.

The important point to understand here is that yields are whatever they are, and promises of variously packaged scams cannot be compared with what the yields are, or be part of a discussion of yields. What happens on MPEx is Bitcoin finance. What happens everywhere and anywhere else is pure gemology.

I can appreciate that to a multitude of financially illiterate folk (such as for instance Dr. BombyHead above) the difference (http://trilema.com/2013/the-list-of-discontinued-assets-on-mpex/) is invisible. That's fine, but it also does not make the difference go away.

More advertising your nonsense filled blog.

I will ask again. How do you make money? You can't just say "finance" and expect people to buy it.

I can however say "none of your business, piss off" and expect you to do so.

But you are the one asking us to pay you 30btc for a service which we have no idea how it operates and how it creates revenue.

Or should we just take your word for it and fork over the 30btc, invest in s.mpoe, and see how it goes?

I am asking you no such thing. It's a bad habit to imagine yourself at the center of the world. In day to day reality, MPEx is worth about a billion dollars and nobody gives a shit what you think on this, or any other topic.

Really? I'm not the one with a yellow ignore button. For those wondering it means he has been ignored by many trusted members.

Also you tell me to piss off in my own thread? I give you a chance to defend your "financial operation" but you either choose not to or you simply can't.

And I completely agree that it is a bad habit to imagine yourself at the center of the world. But seriously take a look in the mirror. Everything you have said revolved around how much superior you are to us simple minded folk and how your operation is the beating heart of bitcoin.

Get real.

It is not even worth 1 million. Your site is trash and a running joke in the bitcoin community. You are a clown.

Until such time as you are capable of magicking up anything other than a fairly tale to explain how a competent options market maker can simultaneously never hedge option positions and never enter a naked option position, it will remain the case that the primary source of gross financial illiteracy being spewn all over innocent bystanders here is you.

The genuinely competent know when to acknowledge they've made a mistake. They also recognise when they've stepped over the boundary that separates healthy and even entertaining assertiveness from merely spewing logical incoherence and last-ditch defensiveness. It's a shame you seem to be blind to that boundary.

If you have some competence to show, and you'd like to take a stab at rescuing your previous assertions from logical incoherence, then have it it. If not, perhaps it would be worth considering whether all PR really is good PR after all -- or whether sometimes it actually matters whether you have something worthwhile to contribute.

i think he needs the money to finish his sex change to finally become MPOE-PR


He's the Chelsea Manning of the Bitcoin world.

via (http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-11-2013#399071).

Split sides eagerly await your doubtlessly clever and well-grounded retort.

Despite my better judgement warning me it is an utter waste of my time to respond to such ongoing flailings and desperate attempts to lower the tone of the conversation, on this occasion I will accept the invitation to explain the inherent idiocy of claiming to provide competent options market making services while never hedging options positions and never entering naked positions.

By definition, an options market maker is a guaranteed buyer, and a guaranteed seller. The market maker does not get to decide, in advance, whether they're going to be buying or selling, and the market maker does not get to use a crystal ball to tell them, in advance, what demands are going to be made either to buy or sell options or to deliver or to take delivery of the underlying.

As a result, any competent market maker -- who, being competent and all, is not going to introduce inordinate levels of counterparty risk -- continually adjusts positions both in cash and in the underlying entity which are sufficient to cover their obligations created by ongoing sales and purchases of options. That's in addition to ongoing adjustments to bids and asks across option chains so as to accommodate changes in the price of the underlying and fluctuations in demand for the options. In my original example, when they're short a call, they might ensure that short position is balanced by a long in the underlying -- and, notably, maintaining that long position, whose price moves inversely relative to the short position, is the very definition of hedging. To the extent the position is covered, it is hedged -- by definition. Someone who claims otherwise either does not understand the meaning of the words, or they hope that you don't.

(I'm simplifying quite a bit here. More generally speaking, options market makers keep a lid on directional risk, or delta risk, via a range of strategies, including using futures. They also keep a lid on risks associated with the other Greeks -- gamma, vega, and theta -- but we're dealing here with someone who claims to provide competent market making while ignoring the obvious delta.)

The types of adjustments I've just outlined explain why, generally speaking, competent market makers tend not to lose large amounts of money: a competent market maker is not merely gambling with a pot of underlying capital by buying and selling options willy-nilly, hoping to make a killing on the bid/ask spread. On the contrary: their entire operation is designed and delta hedged so as to avoid wild swings in the net value of their position and to provide a service which is both extremely reliable for market participants -- by virtue of continually ensuring their ability to deliver on their obligations -- and highly profitable to themselves.

Merely "having money" and providing a bit of options market making without a grasp of the basic mechanics of risk management in the activity does not make one a competent market maker; it makes one a gambler.

Merely "having money" and occasionally losing large sums while options market making does not make one a competent market maker; it makes one a source of counterparty risk.

The bottom line is that out in the real world of finance, a supposed market maker who not only failed to grasp the concept of delta-neutral hedging but actively promoted their lack of hedging activity as some sort of good thing would be laughed out of the room -- or more likely just ignored. Only here, where Bitcoin finance remains in its infancy, can someone swagger in without a clue about even basic delta hedging, point to a big bag of money, and attempt to browbeat and intimidate folks into thinking that that somehow implies they know what they're doing and can be relied upon as a safe counterparty.

It's good that you know words. It's funny that you believe armchair generals actually matter on the battlefield. Please never change, you've got a good thing going with this unintentional comedy gold. Even if its value is epsilon per megaton, nonetheless you're not going to exceed it doing anything else. 

Yada yada yada yaaawwwwnnn. Is there anybody else here besides you?

People made an enormous amount of bitcoin off of call options purchased on the site from January to April of 2013. If you ask people in the bitcoin-assets channel, they know. The site paid out 19,000 BTC on March options expiration.  That's probably the biggest hit any bitcoin financial product ever took without going under.

Here is the financial statement for March.  There are people out there that made an utter KILLING that month.  MP lost basically all the gains of the previous year.  Options were repriced shortly afterwards to more accurately reflect the tail risk volatility, and volume has fallen off dramatically.

http://trilema.com/2013/mpoe-march-2013-statement/

Just to lose it gambling few months later.

The burden of proof rests on the accuser.  You can't just say "prove it's not a scam".

What evidence do you have to offer that it is a scam?

Can you point to any material lies or misrepresentations, breaches of contract, etc?

As far as I know, every part of this scam is outlined in the contract. This does not make it any less of a scam, but a scam that users are accidentally agreeing to it.

Parts I found scammy/schemey:

- Main source if revenue directly related to the amount of noobs that can be recruited and made to pay the 30btc registration fee.

 - Bashes all other security exchanges yet is not even a real stock exchange and instead a gambling site.

- Other main source of revenue relies on a robots ability to predict the future where their users cannot. Unless this robot is in possesion of a magic 8-ball, it is doing nothing but gambling.

- No real value created. One guy loses money and one guy wins the other guys losses. Money is switching hands but never is value created like a normal business.

- nonfunctional securities. 2 securities for gambling sites, 1 for a video game dev (only source of creating value related to this scheme albeit very little value) and of course s.mpoe which gets its profits from recruiting noobs to pay the registration fee and hopefully gamble against the robot and lose.

- Website designed to mislead. Everything about the site reeks of bullshit. Designed to make you think you are "investing" in something legit but really you are throwing money away unless you are taking part in the scheme.

Point of this thread was to determine what mpex does and whether its profits come from actually creating value which has become clear is not the case.

Wow. I read a lot of retarded shit on these forums, but this is prime retarded rib.

Bitbet is more than gambling? I thought that was literally all it is.

Mining companies create items people want to buy. A real product with real value. Mpex just moves money..

Wow an MPOE_PR post followed directly by a pankkake post.

For the uninitiated here's how it goes.

1. Someone criticized MP
2. MPOE-PR insults everyone. Calls them fools for not understanding how MP is bigger than google/fb/amazon etc
3. pankkake says "wow I can walk! this snake oil from MP works fuck the critics!"

This play is as old as the hillls

Clearly you have demonstrated your ability to hurl insults at me and others on the forum who question your business.

I really just want to know where your money comes from? I am pretty sure the reason you wont give me or anyone else a simplified answer is because it would become clear that you do nothing but move money.

I really wish you would take the time to explain how you make money with the same clarity and simplicity of your insults.

I hear you on the lols tbf. I feel that although mp is a business based on tricking people, most of those people kind of deserve it. If anything screamed "don't pay me money to join" then mpex said that. I think though that by dealing with so many fools maybe mp has started thinking 100% of people are fools when it's only 99.999%

It's just not the way I'd run a business. I think ethics and fairness have to play a role.

dem lulz

There is an easier way to decide that than feeling it. How many people have paid 30 BTC to use it ? PR girl, this is a simple one to answer.

Each monthly report contains the answer for that month. A tally was published a while back (http://trilema.com/2013/mpex-paid-accounts/); any time one of the local retards feels inclined to do something actually useful he could go add up said reports and come up with some useful data.

The whole mp bus plan is this: we're never gonna run out of retards!

I'd like to criticize it and i don't think it's morally right BUT I don't think it's wrong either

Sorry I'm not able to access your shitty blog and definately not going to pay 0.01 to read it.

Can you just answer simple questions? We want a number of users who payed the registration fee. A single number shouldn't be too hard to provide or even a rough estimate would do.

But linking your shitty blog expecting me to pay 0.01btc to wade though the nonsense is not going to happen.

I'm sorry, I cost 12 BTC a month. I don't entertain requests coming from 0.01 BTC noobs.

Quite the job for doing see here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=124441.0) all day long, congratulations on that.

Apparently you lot have such a good reputation, people (http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-11-2013#389041) seem to think I'm not getting paid nearly enough.

This thread is full of misinformed idiots attacking MPEx as a scam without understanding what it is.

"How is this possibly valued so high?" - It is a bitcoin based business which earns income in bitcoins and has a track record of surviving attacks by starting with strong security from the beginning. It earns income, pays dividends, gives monthly reports.

"Where is it possibly getting any income from?" - They publish reports every month detailing things like this. Go read the monthly report to find out. Registration fees, trading fees, option fees, etc.

"It costs 30 btc to sign up, why would anybody use it?" - People use it because it works. If you do not want to pay the 30 btc registration you can use a broker like CoinBr to avoid the registration fee.

"But it is trading at a PE of 97, why would anybody buy that?" - This is bitcoin, a deflating currency. For a steady company it makes sense for the yield to be very low, since you are gaining value on top of the bitcoin you started with. The only reason all the other stocks are trading at such low PE's is because of the huge risk factors. MPOE is seen by the market as being low risk, therefore there is a high PE. Also, people are buying in for the amazing potential future profits; there are just a few stocks listed now, but as the serious financial types from around the world get into the bitcoin space, more listings will be added.

It is funny when Mpex's butt buddies come out of hiding they nearly all have terrible reputations and a history of scamming.

Mpoe bagholder? You, like mpoe pr, are great at hurling insults without actually explaining anything. I can make a site with 50btc reg fees and claim it is because it works but without any evidence it is all bullshit.

I have actually come to a further understanding of how mpex.co works and please correct me if I'm wrong.

Mpoe recruits noobs to "invest" in mpex. After the noob pays 30btc to join this scheme he has 2 options. He can gamble against the infamous mpex robot and most likely lose or he could join the club and invest in s.mpoe and take part in collecting noobs losses. Profit is derived directly from the losses of idiot investors which were recruited to the site.

Totally legit 1 billion company amirite?

They don't give a fuck. As the old saying goes: Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.

So you get paid 12btc per month to sit on your ass and insult people over the Internet? Damn. Living the life. I would have applied for the job knowing I would get paid to do nothing. Although I don't like to participate in scams for moral reasons I could use a new boat.

If mr popescu is looking for another troll to surf the forums and advertise/recruit wherever possible I would love to apply for the job. I could post twice as many insults as mpoe pr but honestly I doubt I could make mpex look as bad as your pr does even if I tried.

30BTC is $30k.
If MPex does indeed fleece people, it's not the poor & the downtrodden that get fleeced.  Thanks to the 30BTC fee.
Those who think it reasonable to part with $30k just to be able to start trading either don't need your financial advice or are beyond help.  So, what are you doing here?   

Not people. You.

I don't know anything about this type of investing. But I do know I'm in the twilight zone. The pr avatar creeps the hell out of me, emporium gives me nightmares and his? name gives me chills.

I have no clue where I am or what this is. 30 btc to invest in bitbet? How the hell do you even register? There's just a creepy empty box with output html under it.

None of this makes sense. It's like I'm in a delirium. The avatar makes me feel like I'm on acid. I apologize if that's you pr girl. But the side view is chilling. And I see a nipple.

Mircea runs a weird ass poker blog that has points on the top right. This is from an insane asylum. And he has 724k btc?

None of it makes sense. There's only 3 stocks. Every other exchange closed but this one stays in business? None of it adds up. How do you even register? All I see is an empty box.

Insane asylum, gpg is good otherwise.

Instead of using MPEx directly, you should use coinBR which is a broker. With just a few bitcoins worth of investments you should be able to cover the monthly account fee, if you have hundreds of bitcoins to invest then you should pay for the account directly on MPEx; if you want to invest less than a few bitcoins, get a job and save your money until you have a couple bitcoins.

Mircea's blog is not about poker, that is where all the monthly statements for the companies on MPEx are posted. Are there any other companies in the world which post GPG signed monthly financial statements? The rest of the stuff on the blog is sometimes interesting, sometimes not. The points in the top corner show how many view you have left before you have to pay to view more articles (you get a few free views per week).

Omg even the blog charges. Lol I'm not investing in his stock where he values his position at 700k btc with only 4% trading.

You already lost most of your coins in 2011, so no worries there.

I wouldn't stop there.

When confronted with something new you can pretty much either work to figure it out, or else invent various ill sensations and protestations in a lame attempt to insulate yourself from the reality that you're either too stupid or too lazy to figure it out. My wake is strewn with the penniless visages of those who figured the latter was the right choice.


There are plenty of things out there that'd be harder than having to interact with powerful, properly built tools without protection a few feet thick, y'know. And hard's not such a bad thing in the first place.

What you say may be true when bitcoin value $3.
China join #bitcoin-asset to talk bitcoin ban with MP. ? or MP did ride donkey all way to China ?  MP busy talk with USA ? I make 10 posts you make 1000 posts. All posts you make worth less. you paid to talk.
He has bitcoin saved from years. Only expense donkey food, Ego make him mr bitcoin. no one care. Why he so rich he steal from bet ? You wake up one day.
save time do not reply. I go to google If i want auto-mated talk back.

You appearance is attractive. You have future get proper job. He end up make donkey show in Thailand for tourist.

Even with broken english you still hit the nail on the head.

Side note: anyone want to invest in jimmothys options emporium? It offers all the features of mpoe but with only a 20btc registration fee! Give me your money or you're a poor noob.

When I decide to spend 15 minutes whipping up a site with no styling or user accessability then yes. How hard would it be to copy/paste the 1 or 2 features mpoe offers? Is there anything proprietary about the site?

Oh really? Mpex.co is not a website you say? Oh yea Its a scam that's what it is.

Could make coinbr and mpex.co in half an hour probs. The fact that you don't use a web browser to partake in this scam doesn't change anything. And why would I pay someone to use this shitty service?

How hard would it be for mpex.co to set up their own site where you can trade securities with ease just like literally every stock trading site out there. But if they did that I'm sure the scam wouldn't work as well as it is supposedly working now.

You don't have 20btc to give and you know I'm not going to waste my time. My points from the OP still stand:

- nonfunctional service
- fees, fees, and more fees
- no value created from "securities" offered
- PR spam/trolling/advertising
- website from 1995

Totally brotato. You have proven me wrong and mpex isn't a complete scam asking noobs for 30btc with no chance of earning their money back..

No seriously, I'll open an account too if you manage to do what your big mouth said you would.
Get cracking now, or else in a year you'll look back and bang your head against the wall for turning down a 40 BTC for 15 hours of work salary.

Interesting thread for a change.

PR certainly gets points for the quirky, if tiresome, bluster, but Dr. Baldhauser MoPped up on substance. The éminence grise of "Bitcoin finance" is nothing more than a two bit gambler with a god complex? You're the man of the age, Mr. Merdle.

Pankakke - show me an escrow with 20 BTC in it and I'll code it up myself.

Thank god I'm not the only one.

I might throw something in the pot myself, such a prodigious talent deserves it :D

Incidentally, just recently I have procured the MPEx manual, which you are free to use as specification: http://explo.yt/category/MPEx

You can see here (http://trilema.com/2013/the-future-of-bitcoin-regulation/) on the topic of just how US-centered MP is. Especially around where it says "I can deal just as well with Chinese investors, Bitcoin is completely neutral from a cultural perspective. This neutrality means that cultures will have to compete. So far the US is losing this competition at this level."

That was April 2013. Compare and contrast with your forum registration date.

Apparently I'm a victim of poor breeding (or other sassy insult)--because looking over the MPEX "manual" and site--I'm reminded of an AOL chat bot I may have thrown together in a weekend when I was 14, first learning to program with visual basic, albeit with GPG thrown in.  And lots and lots of words using cryptic language to say very very little.

I'd say the setup is designed to mesmerize potential users, making them invest lots of time (that old chestnut), and confuse them into losing their BTC; all-the-while awarding a sense of superiority.

I don't know a damn thing about options markets though, so clearly my feeble mind is unable to blah blah blah

You are setting yourself up for insult?

I glanced at the MPEX manual, I do not see any cryptic language? It seems to me that is a direct, succinct explanation of how to use MPEx? People keep saying MPEx is hard to use, but this shows all the important points in just a few small pages. As with any well-made computer program, most of the complexity is hidden from the user.

It's remarkable how exactly backwards your brain interprets what it sees.

As someone who clearly advocates and uses mpex.co maybe you can tell me and everyone else what the fuck they do? And no im not going to read some bullshit blog posts designed to confuse and deceive.

Seriously what does mpex.co do? Havelock is for trading stocks. If you cant explain what mpex.co does in one short sentence that normal humans who speak normal english can understand then you instantly know it is bullshit.

Most of this "complexity" in any real computer program has a purpose and a function. What is the function of mpex.co?

Mpex is a disfunctional/inconvenient/obsolete service which is guaranteed to implode when idiots stop piling money in to the scam and all the rich kids pull out their coins.

So more specifically:
1 stock
Futures(can be traded without ridiculous fees many other places)
And options(gambling)


Maybe you can see why this "service" is such a joke now? After being the "oldest and most successful security exchange" you would think they would have more to show than a single stock and a few other non-proprietary features.

How can you justify 30btc and having to put up with extremely inconvenient trading and user interface? Its complete nonsense. Ill stick with havelock where securities are actually traded.

I was not sure I understood fully what mpex.co did other than stocks/options/futures. I thought for sure there would be some feature I missed which makes it worth 30btc e
registration fees or 1 billion usd total evaluation. Now it is clear that mpex.co is a complete scam.

Topic has not changed. Mpex.co is still a joke of a website/service and I have no doubt it will go absolutely nowhere but downhill in the future.

Actually useful websites like crypto-trade or havelock as well as coloured coins will continue to gain traction as this shitty scheme dies out.

Are my eyes deceiving me.  The fee to join is 30 Bitcoins ?

No the fee is 30 BTC to keep you out.

Eyes functioning as normal. 30,000 usd to join a scheme which has no sources of revenue besides the 30btc reg fee and whatever is made from the losses of its users. Literally just handing money over to mpoe and hoping some more rich idiots join the scheme later on and lose their money gambling on the site with futures/options.

Totally legit business. Deserves to be up in the finance hall of fame with JP Morgan..

Hello Sir,

Would you like to wiggle?

wiggle wiggle

He has some legit points. S.MPOE is de facto the only stock traded on MPEx and with about 80% of total income the registration fee is the main source of income of S.MPOE. But it's not completely a snow ball system because you don't even get anything for paying the ridiculous fee, you have to invest even more to take part of the scheme/system.

The only one who benefits is Mircea and maybe his PR slave, who are laughing their asses off of this thread.

Forget about the fact that registration fees are the biggest source of income aside from the occasional gambling bot win. If mpoe makes a shitload off of its users losses you wont get a portion of the winnings even if you are one of the rich kids partaking in the scheme. Something like 85% of all shares are held by Mr Popescu himself. Don't forget that this "PR" person is payed 12btc/month to spam this forum. Around 10% of last months dividends went directly to MPOE PR. Solid investment if you ask me...

Maybe you should read the financial statements. Here ill even quote it for you:


I love how just about all of your insults apply to yourself..

And just because you can buy shares through some guy who has paid the fee, doesn't mean you can use mpex without paying the fee.

The ones where users (gamblers) lost huge or won huge?

Or the ones when btc was $5 a piece?

Just admit it.. you invested in a scam

I never bought HIF as I said I thought it was over evaluated.

If Mpoe was just over evaluated I would not be calling it a scam. It is a scam because it relies on deception, recruitment of idiots, and its users losses to make a profit.

When mpoe can make a dime without one of its users losing a dime, ill be impressed.

This is all just an overly complicated game with real money that ends up in mr popescus wallet.

My favorite quote from mpex

Shouldn't it be changed to "this is necessary because dividends. ~85% of which are mr popescus"

I always thought pirateat40, bfl, and numerous others were much bigger scams but now I see through your eloquent and factual words that MPeX is THE BIGGEST SCAM IN BITCOIN HISTORY.   ::)

He make opinion 9 month later who care. he not agree or allow. he give person opinion.
You make smart reply. No one read. No one ever tell us praise for you. Always scam complain.
No one care what you talk, you paid to lie. All profit is made from scam. We see report.
I go on IRC longer than you false god. i know who know. You learn one day business happen outside #bitcoin-asset. You run out of defence month and month ago. now resort to insult. We all see. It not make respect for you. why here you on forum if to smart for users ?

Eloquence. An Interwebs phenomenon.  ;D


Are you Rpietilla?

Gotta admit you goons are a lot more entertaining than the scammers on this forum. I guess selflessness has its good parts.

So... anybody know why S.MPOE just jumped up 20% today? Was there some big news that I missed?

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/01/openbsd-rescued-from-unpowered-oblivion-by-20k-bitcoin-donation/

People expect a price rise due to the attention of MPEX being in the News? (Inflow of New Investors)

MP better be careful, this type of move may be considered a form of compassion, destroying the image he's worked so hard for


although it wouldn't surprise me to see this deducted as a shareholder expense

Wow, 20k bitcoin donation, that is pretty generous ... wait a minute ... the article title is actually $20k bitcoins, that is still pretty generous but much less extraordinary.

He's still a die hard racist http://trilema.com/2012/the-nigger-homeowners-and-other-niggers/

The more you learn about mr p and his scheme the more you realize what an embarrassment he is.

Pankakke you are embarrasing yourself defending a scammer.

This reddit post sums it up nicely.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1k5x8e/

Man some psychopathic shit goes down on irc. It's like the channel is tainted with virtual acid. Pirate40 hung out with him to so did Matthew Wright

Bahahaha, the shit people can come up with, omg. When will bitcointalk start charging for such comedy, quality material should not be free.

Oh look, a bitbet shill !

Are you a shill if you are promoting your own company? I thought a shill was somebody who pretends to be an unbiased outsider?

I love it how the only people who don't think mpex is a complete scam are people who benefit from the scam or nerds who have never ventured outside of their favorite bitcoin chat room.

There is a reason there are no real stocks listed on mpex and never will be. There is a reason no other real world exchange or business operates like mpex.

So with mr p 100k btc richer and his users 100k btc poorer please tell me how this is a legit service.

Its really just an overly complicated way of gambling which is designed to funnel money to mr popescus wallet. You might as well pay 30btc to play monopoly with real money as it would have the same end result of producing no value but shifting money from one hand to the other. At least monopoly doesn't take 85% of your profits should you win the game.

Mpex is simply a clever scheme designed to take money from early adopters or rich idiots who know nothing about real world finance.

Lol, careful there, don't make me spill my coffee. Anyway, Peter Lambert, its a joke with a reference to snackmans delusions.

Oh good.  This thread again.


Real compared to what?  Are you criticizing MPEx for not listing every scam that comes across it's doorstep like Havelock and Cryptostocks?

Havelock currently lists 17 stocks, giving 14 unique offerings. Around 6-7 of these are for mining companies, 2 are for banking operations and 1 is for an investment fund into a package of bitcoin startups.

Almost every one of these offerings is doing more for the world of bitcoin than the 4 stocks on MPEx. And none of them funnel money directly into the pocket of the owner of the exchange.

Well, GLBSE had ~100 stocks scams, ~BTCTC 50, lets say the same for Bitfunder (numbers approximate, made up).
How well did that work out?



taken from http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2014#443425

Keep pretending the reason mpex has so few stocks is because there are too many scams. Maybe the reason they don't have any real stocks after a few years of operating is because they are full of shit and don't offer a useful stock trading service.

Havelock does not list every stock that comes to its doorstep. It does have requirements and decent procedures to prevent scams. Cryptostocks does list just about every project/scam that shows up at its doorstep but at least there are projects showing up.

Major difference between mpex and other exchanges is that we actually use havelock and Cryptostocks to trade securities while mpex is used to gamble and or make mr pope rich.

Funny how people outside of bitcoin assets who live in the real world tend to agree that mpex is a scam/bullshit

I completely forgot that everyone in bitcoin assets is a pro financier and should be taken seriously. I also forgot that mr popescu is the all mighty security god and he is the ultimate decider of good and bad stocks.

For a second I thought I was here to trade stocks, but now I know I need to first get mr popescus permission and approval before doing so. How is humble little me supposed to know what is a scam without a magic crystal ball and incredible intelligence like mr p?

/s

2 years from now mpex will either have imploded or will have not listed even a single additional real stock. It's not because there are no good stocks available, just none that want to use such a bullshit service as mpex.

Really just means that a decent amount of people agree with the statement that mpex is bullshit. I am not saying reddit is full of geniuses but it doesnt take one to understand this scheme.

No worries, its natural, people forget sometimes.

I see only 1 incorrect number being the registration fee. Statement 4 means that when you look through the bullshit and games, mpex does not create real world value. For example asicminer creates hardware people want to buy and sells them for a profit.

Some could argue Mpex creates value by offering a way to gamble with options/futures or invest on the house (85% which will always be mr ps portion)

If there was no 30btc reg fee, mr popescus didnt own such a ridiculous majority of shares, and the pr bullshit stops then maybe I would consider it an actual service and not a complete scam. Maybe then some real projects might consider using their service to trade their stocks on. But this wont happen because mpex is not designed to function as a useful exchange but a tool to scam noobs.

They make their money by collaborating with unscrupulous "CEOs" that IPO outrageously overpriced/inept/incomplete/non-existent/non-tangible ideas that somehow get labeled "assets" (as opposed to liabilities).

Homework assignment:  List every Havelock 'asset' that is currently trading above IPO price.  The market is trying to tell you something.

Asicminer, HIF, neobee, SFI are all trading at or above ipo. It is nice to have the option to look through multiple real world projects and decide on your own whether to invest or not. And I don't even need to pay 30btc!

You do know that havelock has pretty strict requirements for listing a stock right? Also is there anything tangible regarding mpex?

I include terrible IPO cash grabs in my definition of: "scam."  Actually, imo, Havelock has less "useful" projects than MPEx: Neo & Bee on Havelock; S.BBET & S.NSA on MPEx (profitability to be determined).


*cough*VTXlabcoinMintsparePetaDealCoCBTC*cough* *coughmoar*kenilworthtobelistedonhavelocksoonLOL*hack*

[PRE IPO] Looking for IPO - Attention MPOE MPEX MPOE-PR
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426406.0

Why would you want to list at some exchange which is ran by hard (http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=350103.msg4645271#msg4645271) psychopathic (http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=350103.msg4646450#msg4646450) racist  (http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=350103.msg4645271#msg4645271)guy who also  hang out with Pirate and MNW (http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=350103.msg4646450#msg4646450)?

Boggles my mind!

Money is money and at least my business will bring in real revenue

Meh, not even funny.

Havelock having "terrible ipo cash grabs" is your opinion and you are entitled to that but I happen to disagree. Although I have stated before I believe HIF is overpriced doesn't mean its a scam. There is a chance that many stocks on havelock succeed as well as fail but its not havelocks job to decide which is good and bad. They offer a nice platform for trading stocks and people use it because it works as advertised.

Mpex has built a solid system security wise no doubt. But it is far from practical or useful. Why would a stock want to list on mpex for 30btc vs another exchange for much less?

Also how does mp prevent scams? Is it because mp chooses not to list what he does not feel is a good investment or is it because no projects want to use his exchange?

[PRE IPO] Looking for IPO - Attention MPOE MPEX MPOE-PR
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426406.0

So now you are a spammer?

It is however exclusive non-mpex exchanges


None of those that have "unfinished ipo" specifically stated all tranches must be sold. Fact is people are buying shares at ipo price and believe these companies will succeed.


And as I said before using a broker is like using another service. You are not avoiding the mandatory 30btc reg fee by paying some guy who has already paid that fee a slightly lower fee so he can buy shares for you.

You can continue to hurl insults and state how misinformed I am in every post but its not going to do anything besides waste time.

Well, this is my statement so let me clarify:

Statement 1: Holy Shit! You need to pay this scammer US$24,000 before you're even allowed to buy any of his scammy stocks
Statement 2: Fine, I stand corrected. Although I still reserve my judgment on this.
Statement 3: You've just paid this scammer $24,000 so please feel privileged that you're now allowed to pay him some more.
Statement 4: Now I can see why this statement confuses you, as you are clearly far divorced from the real world if you think MPEx offers anything of value to anyone other than Mircea Popescu.

Doing something in the real world means just that. Apple makes computers, Facebook runs a social network based advertising service. NeoBee is launching a bank, MintSpare wants to refurbish old electronics and resell them (I think they're way overvalued, but they are aiming to do something in the real world).

MPOE pays Mircea Popescu.
BitBet is mildly interesting and does operate in the real world. It pays Mircea Popescu.
Ministry of Games does nothing but pay Mircea Popescu.
No Such lAbs talks about cryptography and does nothing. But it pays Mircea Popescu.

While there is an obvious disagreement with their business model, is it really a scam? I'll go back to a prior statement of mine about Bitbet...


The rules seem to be clear, if you don't like them, don't play.

I suppose you're right. It's not a scam as such, because it's all out in the open and delivers exactly what it promises.

Caveat Investor

I'm bored.  Can we keep this one going a little longer please? :)

Year. To few soap opera threats on here.

So with the price of 0.001 btc/share and 1 billion shares that is a total price of 1000000 btc. With a profit of 136.5 btc for the month of December, extrapolated to 12 months (yes I know I could go back and add up all the profits for the last year, but that would give a different number) gives an annual earnings of 1638 btc. So the current P/E is 1000000/1638 for a P/E of 610.5.

Typical P/E values for companies listed on fiat based exchanges are in the order of about 5 to 20. Does it make sense for S.MPOE to have such a high P/E as compared to other types of stocks?

Maybe a more representative number www.btcalpha.com/mpex/stocks/s-mpoe/

Okay, they get 125 for the P/E. That is still extremely high.

It's also based on a chart of incomes that shows long-term declines in income. Historic incomes are flattered by people making big bets when Bitcoin was cheap ie small USD volume. As BTC jumped 10x in recent months guess what volumes declined from hundreds per quarter to hundreds per month.

I would still say it's not a 'scam' since no-one is pushing the shares, however anyone choosing to buy at these levels is paying a very high price IMHO.

There are two types of companies with high P/E values: companies in bubbles or companies that have great potential for growth. If MPEx someday becomes the equivalent of the NYSE, then the current price might be a great bargain. If MPEx stays about what it is now, then eventually the share price will go down by a factor of 10 or more.

With a good enough WOT rating you can short that motherfucker.

I don't think anybody has rated my WOT account. And I would not want to short it right now, I think it will grow, and the current investors seem to be patient enough to keep waiting for it to get bigger.

How can a stock with 14,000btc in dividends (and likely to decrease due to increasing value of btc) be worth 1,000,000 btc or about 1/10th of all bitcoins.

Simply ridiculous if you ask me.

Even if mpex became the default stock exchange with a shitload of stocks how can it reach a value of 1/10th all bitcoins?

Besides the fact that mpex was designed to take money from noobs, how can anyone explain the current value?

You do realize that there can be things worth more than all bitcoins, right?

Not if you want to sell it for bitcoins..

Fun fact: asicminer with 200k btc dividends past year is evaluated at 200k btc

mpex.co with 14k in dividends is valued at 1,000k btc

How can a dying company which has less than 1/10th asicminers profits be worth more than 5 times asicminer.

Does that make it 50 times more expensive than asicminer based on dividends alone?

Do you honestly think mpoe will pay out a significant percentage of share price in dividends over the next year or two? My guess is it doesn't even pay out 1% (or 10k btc) in the next year.

Who knows maybe some extremely rich idiots will join and blow a few thousand btc gambling. Doubt it though since the increasing cost of joining is going to exclude potential customers (idiots) from joining.

Jimmothy, you're dead on the money.

Any company that thinks it's worth 1/12th the total money supply of an economy is either lying or delusional.

I have to question your assumptions as to which venture is they dying one and which is the growing one.

Yes because PE is the only number that matters.

Yes because its not the market that forms the price, the company just makes it up.

Yes because idiots are rich because they do not know how to handle monies.

I consider the one which had no revenue last quarter besides registration fees to be dieing. (Wasn't asicminer)

The one which is a few months away from releasing an actual product may or may not do well but at least they have a source of revenue other than gamblers and registration fees.


Take a look at these nice graphs http://www.btcalpha.com/mpex/stocks/s-mpoe/

Those graphs show that registration fees aren't the primary source of cash flow, its the options market making activities.

Gambling is also very profitable industry, and BitBet seems to be holding its own; pulling in some high volume wagers over its history. The question remains whether that security and the options market making is enough to keep MPEx profitable in the long-run.

MPEx may be overvalued, but I don't see it as a scam by any means. Everything is very transparent, as well.

Q4 total profit = 938btc
Total profit from new users = 820btc

You are totally right that being overvalued does not make anything a scam. Having a business model which requires recruiting new gamblers/investors to pay 30btc registration fees as a major source of revenue is a scam.

Gambling is a very profitable industry as you said but I see no reason there can't be options/futures without a 30btc fee and the loads of bullshit that comes along with mpex.

Just for fun lets compare mpex.co to just-dice

Last year net profit: ~14,000btc vs 13,000btc
Total evaluation: 1,000,000btc vs 37,000btc
Profit split: 85% goes to owner 15% to investors vs 10% owner and 90% investors
Registration fees: 30btc vs 0btc
Blog fees: 0.01btc vs 0btc
PR fees: 12btc vs 0btc

Also bitbet doesn't seem to be holding its own. 150btc profit past year and 7200btc evaluation @ a whopping 2% apr. Not sure who buys this shit.

It has been repeated several times by PR that the cost of entry is there to specifically keep people out.  The insult she intended was obvious, but it was more than a simple insult; see past it to the fact she was being literal.  Apparently they don't want the patronage of those who don't understand it and/or can't afford it.

Edit:
I like that you've noted PR's fees.  Mircea Popescu is paying a considerable amount of money, monthly, for your education.  Please have a little respect.

Explain to me why the fee to keep people out was only 200 usd a year ago? Surely that wouldn't keep anyone out so its obvious it is just a method of revenue.

I hope you are not serious when you say mpoe pr is paid monthly to educate. Mpoe pr is nothing more than a troll who is paid to spam links directing people to mpex/blog.

Seriously anyone who buys in to this shit is dilusional. Mpex.co is the scientology of bitcoin.

Because you weren't there yet.

I was under the impression that the ~85% of s.mpoe shares which are held by mr popescu are receiving dividends. Are you saying they are not?

Also how is the 12btc/month for pr trolling not coming from investors profits?

I never implied special treatment. It is a fact that the owner of this gambling site receives 85% of profits due to an arbitrary number of shares he holds.

This isn't finance/investing its a joke..

evaluation? lol.

mpex be the most abstract snare in bitcoin

but i'm grateful, if you dunno how to hold onto a bitcoin, jus leggo already

someone has to pay for MP's sex change to complete his transition to become mpoe-pr and play out this sick fantasy he has dreamed up all in his head.

It aint cheap.

I think you guys are right, its already crashing hard. It will be over by tomorrow.

https://i.imgur.com/ZD3zIw5.png

Looks like if the trend holds we should see negative prices on S.MPOE by the end of the week!

For the same reason the amount Mircea pays MPOE-PR is the same amount today as last year: the value of the service is still worth x amount of BTC.

The forum needs people to give them a large dose of: "you're doing it wrong, don't be an idiot, you're going to lose all your money."  Invaluable advice for those that pay attention (and don't want to lose all their BTC).

The constant btc rate is more likely to create the delusion that mpex can scale with the rapidly increasing value of btc.

You are right about mircea giving invaluable advice. The advice is that if you think your going to make it rich gambling with options then you deserve to lose at least 30btc and/or all you can afford to give away to mr. p.

However I believe you are under the impression that his incoherent and deceptive blog posts have anything to do with the educating. I guess it does in a way since it allows mircea to find everyone stupid enough to fork over 30btc to gamble in a casino where the odds are greatly stacked against you no matter what you do unless your mr. popescu.

And its not hard to be right every once in a while when you call every project a scam in a market with 95% scams. It certainly doesn't take 12btc per month to do that, especially when we have pankakke.

30BTC on CoinBr.com would pay you (if used half by half) 65 years of monthly fees + 750 withdrawals. I don't see how you can call that "slightly lower".... if you don' like people to call you misinformed, then don't try to scandalize a perfectly reasonable business.

Using a broker as I said is basically the same as using a separate service. Last I checked mpex.co wasn't a perfectly reasonable business.

From what I've gathered it is a casino disguised as a stock exchange with ridiculous fees and a scammy business model.

I thought I read it will cost around $30,000 to sign up ? I could not of.
Surely the 30BTC is a mis-print that has never been fixed. ?
People have paid? In todays rates ?

They still do..

30btc fee has not changed and no plans to change it. According to mr p. is likely to increase in the future.

And yes apparently they made 820 btc from new users alone last quarter (out of 920btc total revenue)

Scientology is dead on.

The one not understanding statistics is you. I understand that 95% of the "projects" on this forum are scams. Mpex included. What you don't understand is that when you bet scam with a 95% chance with a scam you will probably be right. You and Mr P do nothing besides cry scam every chance you get.

You are confusing finance with the wacky bullshit mr popescu invents.

You're too new to be aware of most of the basic facts of the matter, such as the basic fact that MPEx was here before Asicminer, and is still here (showing gains, apparently?!) as Asicminer is vanishing into thin air (not least because of their own poor management skills (http://trilema.com/2013/the-analysis-of-a-failure-asicminer/)).

There's a lot more stuff you just don't know about, is all.

Somehow a steady decrease in dividends equates to showing gains? And being around a whole a year before asicminer makes you a much more mature company.

Somehow paying out 5 times ipo in dividends counts as a failure?

Is there more stuff I don't know about? I presume you and the all mighty mr popescu know about everything so maybe you could enlighten us simple minded folk.

Its not exactly fair to compare mpex to a real company like asicminer just because you made a few thousand btc from gamblers the past year.

Look at the prices of the shares: MPOE has consistently gone up, Asicminer went into a huge bubble and is almost down to its IPO price, losing about 90% off its high. In bitcoinland, lasting one year is significant.

Asicminer was not a failure for people who bought at the IPO price, but what about people who bought when the price was above 5 btc per share?

Which is a real company? Which one is run by an anonymous internet persona who sometimes deigns to communicate and which is run by a person who states their identity and signs it with a gpg signature to prove it and gives monthly financial reports signed by that same gpg signature? Which has a potential for growth in the future and which is withering away?

The Bitbet site is elegant, obviously they have css knowledge.

I wonder how the discussion would look like if there were no coinbr referrals.

Fact is that the only stock actively traded on mpex is S.MPOE and in recent months the main source of income for S.MPOE were registration fees for mpex.

Just because a few people bought at 4btc/share when AM had a monopoly on the asic market doesn't mean AM is worth any more or less. AM is about to release next gen hardware that will hopefully bring back 10% network hashrate. Potential growth and dividends are huge.

Mpex on the other hand is a casino that is getting more and more expensive to join with less and less rich gamblers using the service. Explain to me how this can possibly result in future growth?

For mpex to be worth 1 million btc @ 30% apr it would need to increase profit around 50000% compared to last quarters. Simply ridiculous and will never happen.

For AM to grow it needs to sell hardware in a market full of people looking for competitive hardware.

For mpex to grow it needs a steady stream of new users/gamblers which will bet ~100 times the amount of last years gamblers (10000 times in usd)

Also gpg signature doesn't mean shit imo. Does anyone know if mr popescu is even a real person? Has anyone met him in real life and verified identity? I bet mr P could disappear with all the money right now without any problems. Being anonymous is an option in the bitcoin world (albeit a risky option for investors).

Yes, and yes. (http://trilema.com/2013/the-stuff-all-good-conspiracy-theories-start-with/)

Sorry I spoiled the fun.

"In the middle with the beard is MPOE-PR." Is mpoe pr the same as mr popescu? Also this pic proves that a group of people sat down together in a room. What a waste of my precious trilemma credits.

If mr popescu disappeared today how would you find him?

This is all sort of irrelevant because it doesn't matter who is running this scheme. He could be anonymous and it would not be any less of a scam.

The blind on the forum seem to think so.

Oh yea I forgot a picture of a bunch of people at a table = proof mr popescu definitely exists..

I love how every time a point is made the mpex beleibers go off on a tangent to avoid the real issue which is not that mr p could run off with his fat stack of cash at any time.

The real issue is that mpex is absurdly over-valued and requires the recruitment of idiots/gamblers to supply its revenue.

I would love to know what would happen without the 30btc fee and the coinbr referral squad. I doubt it would be profitable because there would be nobody to recruit new cult members.

Absolutely true. What value does MPEX actually create? In one sentence please.

It provides the ability to make some very rich and some much poorer.

Along with a bunch of other useless shit nobody uses like futures/trading stocks

If I'm wrong please correct me.

Yes, one mistake - trading stocks which MP[ex] owns and profits from.

13 pages now.. kinda makes me wonder, if the whole thread and jimmothy is part of some kind of "create attention and awareness for MPEx" PR stunt? ;D

I honestly made this thread because I was curious what the fuck mpex actually did that made it supposedly worth 1 billion dollars. But your right judging by mpoe pr's post history its pretty obvious when someone told them there is no such thing as bad pr they took it literally.

Anyways now that it has been confirmed to be nothing more than a way to move money around without creating any value I think we can let this thread die and the free publicity with it.

Damn I wish I didn't view that picture of mr p at a table earlier because then I could see the statement

Summary: 1806 BTC total profits over january, 1830 BTC earned from new account registrations.

The profits keep coming as long as new people keep joining.

Where have I heard this before?

Gentlemen, my pleasure to announce most comprehensive MPEx documentation to date:
The Missing MPEx Manual (http://explo.yt/category/MPEx)

Month 4 where 100% profit has come from recruitment of new gamblers.

#finance

Wow the most comprehensive documentation to date and no explanation of why the 30btc fee.

It basically just says that you need to have capital which is a joke because only a year ago it required 200 dollars capital and it now requires 30 grand..

But wait, if you recruit some more idiots like yourself you can recoup some of that ridiculous fee and make mr popescu rich. Everyone wins! Unless your anyone besides mircea popescu.

Seriously, what is it you're so butthurt about?

Less butthurt. More confused as to why this recruitment scheme has such a delusional cult following.

Did anyone invented anything better in bitcoin space? Or at least is there anyone else who has the balls to sustain running such business for years while publishing all information? I don't see what is here to be confused about.

I'm confused why people like yourself see any value in a company which  only source of revenue is recruitment of new gamblers.

How can you pretend that this is a legitimate business? It is nothing more than a game you can play with large sums of money where the odds are always unfairly stacked against you which cost 30btc to play (unless you pay some guy to play for you using coinbr)

How does a silly game that cost 30btc to play = most legit business in bitcoin space?

Its obvious. About the fact he failed to open an account when it was 200 bucks.

I am pretty butthurt about all the pyramid schemes I didn't get involved in early you're right. How early did you get in? How much btc have you made off your recruits?

22 million.

All revenue from new gamblers = ponzi.

Of course that assumes the new gamblers are even real..........

Mister Popescu thanks all idiots for a whopping BTC1,500 ($1,2m) this month. Keep it coming!

See, there is your problem. Why do you think an investment should earn 30% apr? Especially when it is measured in bitcoins, which tend to be deflationary anyway?

Because you need a higher than average apr to accomodate for the ridiculous registration fee. Otherwise it wouldn't be an intelligent investment, even if you overlook the fact that its basicly a pyramid scheme.

Edit: That means that a $100k (125BTC) investment needs a (roughly) 30% apr to get back the registration fee. No satoshi earned here. Just to make it clear.

If you don't want to pay the registration fee, you can use CoinBr or another broker.

Should I use your link?

If you want; it is there for people to use.

And then also promote that piece of junk? No thanks.

Just out of curiosity, since you're advertising the other popescu money printer, is there a bitbet when mpex/mpoe will collapse?

Hey, I figure having the links there does not cost me anything and I might earn some commissions if somebody clicks on them. It is also an experiment to see if anybody ever follows links in my sig, I have had them there a couple months and have not gotten anything from either site yet. Maybe I need to switch them to 72 pt bright red font?

So without any revenue from gamblers does that make mpex literally nothing more than a ponzi scheme?

In case you guys over at #bitcoin assets don't know what a ponzi is here's a nice definition:


Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from existing capital or new capital paid by new investors, rather than from profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation. Operators of Ponzi schemes usually entice new investors by offering higher returns than other investments, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent. The perpetuation of the high returns requires an ever-increasing flow of money from new investors to sustain the scheme.

source: wikipedia

Literally the definition of mpex

Once in a while, eh? Aren't you the little misunderstood hero.


It takes whatever MP says it takes. This being the difference: nobody asked you a damned thing. At the rate you're going that's never changing, either.


Congratulations on having literally destroyed all of Wall Street, its hopes and aspirations thrown into the gutter by the valiant logic of one lonely anon fuckwit. Or did I miss the picture of YOU sitting around at a table with "some people" including the hottest chick on this forum in her 19 inch red heels?

What shall you do next? End poverty? Cure cancer? Stop and think for a minute?


30 BTC is still 30 BTC. What are these "grands" you speak of?


What exactly gave you the impression you're being recruited?


This "ponzi" has been here before you, and before him, and before the first actual Bitcoin ponzi even collapsed, or even started.

In fact, this "ponzi" is a good chunk of the actual reason that first ponzi died, at a time when most everyone else was about as clueless as you are today (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=106391.0).

You not knowing WHY Bitcoin is worth a lot today doesn't change things around. MPEx is there. You're neither here nor there.


Depends on your volume. If your volume is negligible, then an upfront fee is a big problem. If your volume is significant then the fact MPEx trades at 0.1% average is a major point.

At some point you gotta stop and think about your relative position in the world.

Serious question: What planet are you from?

I honestly want to believe this is just the greatest and most dedicated attempt at trolling but I think people are actually buying in to the shit you say.

You do realize you are eventually going to have to get a real job? Either when this ponzi implodes due to the free market or when the SEC or similar agency shuts the scheme down for breaking several security laws (being a ponzi is only one of them)

Here's some interesting actual data: the original shares were sold through a blind placement. They went for 9085 satoshi on the first round (http://trilema.com/2012/mpoe-rezultatele-subscriptiei-publice-martie/) and 2433 satoshi on the 2nd round (http://trilema.com/2012/mpoe-rezultatele-subscriptiei-publice-aprilie/). Currently the shares trade around 90,000 satoshi. That's a 1000% to 4000% increase over less than two years, and some off the cuff calculation would indicate S.MPOE has generated just about a billion dollars' worth of new wealth for its holders.

Which favorably compares with the sum total of all Bitcoin related ventures, plus all alt-chains, plus everything else. MPEx is, quite simply, the biggest thing that ever happened in this space.

On the other score: MPEx has been humiliating the SEC in public since 2012 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=437931.msg4838062#msg4838062). Moreover, the DFS itself came to the conclusion that MP's 2012 article (http://trilema.com/2012/the-reasons-why-bitcoin-securities-cant-be-regulated-by-the-sec/) on the topic of Bitcoin regulation is both sound and controls the matter. That's right: it took the USG two years of hewing and hawing to finally work up the balls to come out and plainly state "yeah, that MP guy actually knew what's what way before we figured it out, you should probably just listen to him in the future because we're 12 and what is this."

Sooner or later you're going to just learn to deal with it: there are huge things in Bitcoin, whether you agree or not, whether you understand how they work or not. They don't give a shit about you, or your government. Again, whether you agree or not. Such is life.

Wow your ponzi has increased in value from when it sold ~1 million shares to the point where it sold 150 million? What about all those idiots along the way that didn't get in at ipo and bought/are still buying absurdly overpriced shares in this ponzi?

If I can find 1 idiot to buy 1 share of my company (which will have 100 trillion shares) for 0.01btc does that mean my company is worth 1 trillion bitcoins? Of course not.

You must be huffing paint if you think mpex generated 1 billion usd worth of wealth for its users. That statement is an flat out lie and you know it. You moved around 14k worth of wealth last year and your ponzi (with 85% shares unsold to public) is evaluated at 1 billion usd.

You are right about mpex being the biggest thing in this space. But only in the space of bitcoin ponzi schemes.

Your blog posts are so embarrassing it is honestly a waste of time reading. You pretend that bitcoin cannot be regulated by the SEC because it is virtual money. That statement might hold grounds with the armchair investors/mpex cult members but anyone not involved in this ponzi will tell you that that statement is bullshit and would never hold up in court.

Everything you say is carefully constructed to deceive those with a lack of understanding of real world finance. But I guess it takes 30btc for some to learn a life lesson (on how to lose 30btc or more).

Since predicting the most obvious shit elevates one to the status of "god of bitcoin finance" and I predicted that all of mpex revenue is from new recruits does that make me a god in your eyes?

See, this is the part you have trouble with: the opinions of "anyone" aren't worth squat.

You are right but the thing is anyones opinion is worth more than yours.

You run a very deceptive ponzi scheme albeit a very successful one. Grats.

You don't need to pretend you are financial grand master providing an actual financial service.

EDIT: Forgot that he actually does need to pretend in order to keep the ponzi flowing.

Alternatively, you're just installment #4587 of anon noob with firmly impacted if erroneous notions.

Look up EskimoBob (who meanwhile turned scammer); ciuciu (who meanwhile turned scammer); there's a legion of them.

Compare to:


and


Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

to be fair, i don't think there's any particular evidence of fraud

and the more i learn of derivatives, the more i realize this setup fits the mold..

the model in my head: useful to hedge certain situations, but mostly as a way to profit from careless investors--without being deceitful (if not disingenuous).

you know, i'll prefer this to michelle obama any day

the future is getting weird(er)

Mpex is what you get when you combine a ponzi scheme, a pyramid scheme, and an options trading bot (gambling bot)

You all should listen to Chris Odom's talk at BTCMIAMI on January 25th 2014.

Entities like MPEX that require you to trust them will cease to exist. Do yourself a HUGE favor: http://letstalkbitcoin.com/chris-odom-on-opentransactions/#.Uu-8ufldV1Y (http://letstalkbitcoin.com/chris-odom-on-opentransactions/#.Uu-8ufldV1Y)

so much luls for you
cult of L. Ron Popescu,
Jimmothy confused

Yeah dude, totally, shit will cease to exist because some derp said something on his vlog somewhere. This is definitely how things work.

PS. Apparently you did get a lol out of MP (http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-02-2014#477348). Well done, want a cookie?

It's the opposite.

Is it?

Isn't it? If you have the option to sell at a given strike, the option is worthless if the spot is above the strike and is profitable if the spot is below the strike (minus the purchase cost of the option).

According to that chatlog the large option purchases were puts not calls...so whoever this person is, is betting that the USD price of BTC is less then $500, $470, etc. How much total did this person pay in options?

It's in the log

They are written Puts sold to MPEX. Thus, the opposite of what you said.

Yep, that was the part I missed, I thought they were bought

So why haven't you?

I can but I would only profit 0.01 not 1 trillion btc like mpoe pr perceives. And I prefer to earn my btc not steal it from naive investors.

At least you are honest in the estimation of your skill level.   ;)

I forgot scamming retards takes skill. A skill ron l popescu has mastered.

sigh, still nothing new
just more hate for popescu
get trolled by haiku

Where've all the thetans gone
Long time passing
Where've all the thetans gone
Long time ago....

OK, I am not sure where to ask this question, this seems like as good a place as any?

Is there an easy way to access the bid/ask prices of the MPEx assets? What I want is a way to dump the values into a python script?

http://mpex.co/mpex-mktdepth.php

Awesome, thanks.

Am I calculating it right that S.MPOE has a P/E of about 8.5 for the past month? (.00083/(12*.000081) That seems pretty reasonable.

Last month was a little special I'd say :D

Very nice to read the follow up to the story. ;)

In case someone is interested:

http://trilema.com/2014/mpoe-february-2014-statement/

Too funny. Despite the incoherence of his blog post, at least MP has finally stepped up and conceded the incompetence of his former approach to options market making. For finally admitting that and quitting the business of options market making without being adequately prepared, he deserves a positive acknowledgement.

It's ironic that it was just a few months ago I warned about the risks (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=350103.msg3766958#msg3766958) of MP's approach to market making and even spelled it out (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=350103.msg3777831#msg3777831) for MP's PR lackey, but since she seems to have trouble with words of more than two syllables (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=350103.msg3779330#msg3779330), all we got in return at the time was an unflattering spectacle of her flailing about in her own misunderstandings. Fortunately, MP's actions in quitting the business speak louder even than the PR lackey.

Now back to something more interesting.

What are you, stupid or something?

So did mpex just remove the sole source of revenue other than registration fees?

For a second I thought this scam might last a few more months.

There is still the trading fee.

Ah, so this million btc valued company will now be earning a staggering few hundred satoshis a year(assuming there is still anyone using it).

So with options removed is mpex now a full blown ponzi?

I guess it is still debatable while the futures market exists even though nobody uses it. I doubt it will be removed only because then mpex would literally fit the textbook definition of a ponzi scheme instead of hiding behind a disguise.

Yes, if you go by just the amount of trading done right now, and a PE of 10 you would get a price of 0.0000086 (compare to the current price of about 0.00086, that is a difference of two orders of magnitude). But the system which MPEx has set up is secure and useful, so it is reasonable to expect the amount of trade to go up in the future.


Edit: My calculation: 36010 (monthly volume) * 12 (months) * 0.002 (trading fee) * 10 (PE estimate) / 1 billion shares

Alternatively, and perhaps much more rationally, 0.00086 (share price) / 36010 (monthly volume) / 12 (months) / 0.002 (trading fee) *  1 billion shares would yield a PE of 995, which seems to be what a well run, trusted Bitcoin business trades for.

One can't ignore the market indefinitely. For the past two years MPEx has been practically without exception the largest venture in Bitcoin. Others have come and gone, be it Satoshi Dice, Asicminer or what have you. At times of crisis the entire rest of the Bitcoin economy collapsed into nothingness, leaving MPEx to stand in excess of the sum of everything else. At times of (irrational) exuberance drastically inflated market caps on the basis of narrow available "investment" Bitcoin made competition seem possible, in aggregate, but still left MPEx the largest one Bitcoin business (with week or month-long interruptions here and there, sure).

The fact remains that Bitcoin isn't here to adapt to the needs, desires, or expectations of the fiat world. Bitcoin is here to force --with its consent, no matter how enthusiastic, or against its will, no matter how empathic-- the conformation of the fiat world. Consequently...1k PE is just what PEs are in Bitcoin, if the company doesn't suck. If it does suck...well...a fraction thereof.

This isn't nearly as unreasonable as it seems once you realize that Bitcoin, unlike fiats, is noninflationary. In 1965 a gallon of gas cost $0.31, today almost fifty years later it costs ten times as much. That's roughly 20% each year (0.2 * 50 = 10) and if you compound it yearly this comes to a whooping 9100x. Meanwhile in the same interval Berkshire Hathaway went from $14.86 per share to $182,175, which is roughly 12,259x. Not that much better (and for that matter if you compound quarterly rather than yearly, the gasoline figure is 17,292 rather than 9100). In this perspective, Berkshire has barely kept up with inflation (a little above if you compound yearly, a little below if you compound quarterly). What is the real (ie, Bitcoin-equivalent) PE of Berkshire? About 1000x, at least as degree of magnitude. Once you wash away all accounting inflation caused by fiat monetary inflation even the best of fiat companies appears quite MPEx-ish. And this as to the exceptional, the outstanding, the one-of-a-kind. God help you should you consider the merely competent, such as for instance Buffett's competitors Burlington Industries (actually, he spells it out himself (http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/1985.html)).

I love it how you know nobody buys your shit.

You really are an artist when it comes to the art of bullshitting. Isn't there a word for people like that? Oh yea it's called a con artist.

My bet is this ponzi collapses within the next 6 months. Depending on whether or not there is another influx of bitcoin noobs to recruit to the cult of mpex.

I might be amenable to taking the other side of this bet.

So go make your bet then.

Where exactly has Satoshi Dice and Asicminer gone?

Satoshi Dice has delisted and thus has a market cap of 0. Asicminer is trading at about 2-300k BTC, which is nowhere near in range. Thus, gone, in the context we were discussing, which was MPEx' oppressively colossal 8-900k BTC weight.

And for a less skewed comparison:



Value of publicly owned shares:

Mpex: 130k btc
Asicminer: 130k btc


Dividends paid last year:

Mpex: 14k btc
Asicminer: 200k btc


Amount of dividends derived directly from losses of own investors:

Mpex: 13k btc
Asicminer: 0 btc

Dividends derived from service/sales:

Mpex: 1k btc
Asicminer: 200k btc

What happened to your bet?

No BTC just hot air out the mouth or what is it?

Sorry not going to risk money on this considering it is impossible to predict the amount of btc noobs you can recruit to this cult and how your cult members will react to no income.

I would be willing to bet asicminer pays more in dividends than mpex does this year.

You are implying Satoshi Dice was/is somehow worthless?  Although my knowledge is limited weren't the shares bought out at a premium not delisted.  Your own post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=465334.0 mentions the venture as a successful one. 
As far ASICminer vs MPEx the valuations seem in line if one believes that MPEx is the only trustworthy BTC Stock exchange vs ASICminer being one of many ASIC manufacturerers.  Even if not most successful at least trustworthy up till now so why the dislike of them?

Go set it up on BitBet.


There is a difference between "worthless" and "having no published market cap since it is not listed to trade anywhere". Since SatoshiDice is no longer publicly traded, it obviously cannot be one of the highest valued publicly traded companies anymore.

Meanwhile, cca 1991 (http://www.seinology.com/scripts/script-12.shtml),


You Georges of the world really do have infinite hitpoints (http://trilema.com/2013/the-story-of-pointless-and-witless/), don't you. Here's a hint (http://bitbet.us/bet/2/s-mpoe-will-crash-this-spring/). Those people aren't really around anymore. And in 2021 I'll be having the same discussion, with fuckwits equally certain in their Dunning-Kruger sponsored fuckwittery.

So...whatever.

Glad you agree that satoshi dice doesn't have a market cap of 0.  Unless I misread you. 
+1 on the bet idea.  What are the other terms?  Although if jimmothy thinks mpex will collapse wouldn't he think bitbet would too?  So betting on bitbet about bitbet collapsing seems ...

BitBet and MPEx are separate, but if you know a better bitcoin betting platform then go ahead and set the bet up there.

You misread.

I would make a bet using bitbet if they were any less of a scummy company. I love the site/ui/functionality but not a fan of the fine print bullshit like if you bet after a deadline the money is considered a donation. This is no way to run a business especially when you are using a currency that takes a long ass time to confirm sometimes.

I would bet 0.1btc asicminer pays more in divs the following year.

Not going to bet it collapses because I actually changed my mind on that statement. It may not collapse within that time frame but it will surely pay out embarrassingly small divs while nobody uses the useless service.

The only hope of mpex succeeding was with a steady flow of idiots willing to gamble huge sums with options but now that cant even happen.

Save your bitcents, buy yourself a warm meal, or a pair of shoes, or whatever. This discussion is over, random consumer scum do not get to opine on finance.

Up on BitBet: http://bitbet.us/bet/784/s-mpoe-to-rise-above-0-001-before-july/ (http://bitbet.us/bet/784/s-mpoe-to-rise-above-0-001-before-july/), not quite the bet that MPEX is going to fail, but those who think it will fail can probably put some money on this.

There is also this bet: http://bitbet.us/bet/710/mpex-mkt-cap-over-2m-btc-in-first/ (http://bitbet.us/bet/710/mpex-mkt-cap-over-2m-btc-in-first/).

I would love to make a bet but I don't use bitbet after learning about their bullshit policy.

If they chose to screw over customers by stealing late bets along with fine print bullshit then I wont give them my business.

That's a shame because I love having a discussion with you. Why won't you take my bet so I can buy extra warm meals? Isn't gambling your thing?

Or are you not confident in your own ability to bring in any significant revenue.

"Gambling is my thing"? Dude, stop imagining everything you hear, see or read is coming from the same voices in your head.

While I get it may be hard for you, you have to somehow achieve this distinction, because as it stands your presumption is insulting to the few members of the general public that may come into contact with your broken, sorry ass. Like I dunno, social caseworkers, nightcourt judges, me....

You'll have to do it, irrespective of how inconvenient it may seem, because there can be no contest of convenience between these two: while your own head with its own productions is the epitome of impotence, we can hurt you. And we will hurt you. Very, very badly. Especially the cops, they're the worst. Well... at least if you're decerebrated enough that a baton up your ass is the only pain stimulus you respond to anymore.

I have but one mouth,
quoth rabbi bin Popescu,
there-fore I must laugh

For me as outsider it looks like jimmothy is a paid shill/troll from an competing Bitcoin investment plattform.
It's obvious he has vested intrest in the discussion and is not neutral.

Any guesses as to where he is coming from?


So I was thinking: It costs something like 25 btc to register an account on MPEx (assuming you get a referral, why wouldn't you?). It costs something like 1 btc per month to have an asset listed on Havelock (at least, that is what I remember from their IPO prospectus, correct me if I am wrong). So if a company expects to be in business more than 2 years (why would you list a company if you don't expect it to last that long?), it is actually a better deal to go the route of listing on MPEx than Havelock.

havelock only requires fees to list a security.

Mpex requires 30btc for anyone and 5btc back per person you recruit.

How can you compare the two?

It boggles my mind that people presumably trust mpex enough to fork over the minimum of 10btc.

The trading on mpex looks so unnatural its a joke.

It's almost as if mircea doesn't care that you know he is the only one trading/pumping his stock

Spot-on.

If it wasn't for the fact that I have some integrity and respect for the law, I reckon I could easily launch a few fake companies in different areas of Bitcoin with wild crazy unproveable business plans and I'd bet that I'd get a load of Bitcoins raised from people who spent good money or time earning their coins, but are essentially willing to throw them in the general direction of anyone with a nice-sounding idea.....

Assuming it wasn't already.

I am surprised mp didn't throw in a random 5 btc fee to join the chat room/cult. Seems like something he would do.

i do often find bitcoin-asset talks and Mp's blog cynically accurate.. the fun and boobs pics are kind of a cherry on top of that gigantic pile of shit our world is built on :)

and i think paying only 0,01 btc for accessing such paradoxal point of view to be quite cheap (instead of that free mainstream crap we got served all day anyway).

Lol, how are your "investments" on (and, i assume, in) Havelock doing?  Somethin' like this?

http://s28.postimg.org/3shl581x9/Capture.jpg
http://s12.postimg.org/d3msg2ezh/Capture.jpg

I got my 0.01 btc investment out of neobee long ago.

And I happen to agree with you that it is a shitty investment. And I was one of the first to say HIF was overvalued. (Still is)

But what does this have to do with the cult of mpex?

Even 1 satoshi is too much to veiw such absurd ramblings and manipulative articles.

The kind of money you forget in your pockets before it gets cleaned with the rest of the laundry hardly qualifies as "an investment".

Other than it not being quite as lulzy as Havelock (which you kiss on at every opportunity), hopefully nothing.  I'm not concerned with MPEx -- those who can afford 30BTC door charge can take care of themselves.

*But congrats on getting your tree-fiddy 4 bux out of NeoBee.  How much did you put in, ~100?

I think havelock is a great exchange, but not worth nearly 100k btc.

If you think that 100k btc is a high evaluation then you must be mind boggled by mpex 1 million btc value while only having 1 actively traded stock.

If you are not concerned about mpex you might be in the wrong thread.

THIS

+1

True Bro

Sorry.  I'm  (might as well admit it) mysteriously drawn to the local lolcows, I am deeply ashamed...
Post a selfie?

@minerpart:
Stop sperging or else Thorazine. >:(

a MILLION BTC!!!

That's 421 MILLION Dollars!


http://june.typepad.com/.a/6a00e54ed1baa9883301287585219e970c-pi


Cash it out - oh you can't as it's fake accounting on a fake site. Shame.  :D :D :D :D

 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

You complete Tool.

You've lost 300 MILLION Dollars in a month. Did anyone tell you?!


 :D :D :D

421 MILLION Dollars!!!

What are you still on here for?! Remind us all Marcel. Surely not even a dipstick like you could spend all of 421 MILLION Dollars in one life-time???

We call that 'creative accounting' over here. And you know what? It's illegal and amounts to a serious Securities fraud.

Another charge for the prosecution!


How are you sleeping at the moment Marcel?  :-*

I'm not worried, minerpart.  I sleep well.
The guy who stole ur money paid an old alcoholic from Missouri to take the heat if shit ever gets srs, and I too have my fall guys.
You didn't really think that the "virtual identity" [sic] known as Active Mining was Ken Slaughter's brainchild now, did you?  Hell no!

So what makes you think that Mircea is really me?  I got fickin Inception-teir layercake of identities goin' on minerpart, atemporrally and retrocausally.  The sort of shit that twists spacetime into a pretzel and vomits it up on ur lap.
Yah, that's right.  Some creepy shit 4u to think about, minerpart.
Heavy, creepy shit.

 :)

Don't worry about a thing dude. Everything is 'OK'.

Not brilliant, but you know, facing justice can be a liberating experience. You can put the lies and deceit to bed and become a 'new you'.

Also some people have done their best work in prison.

Cervantes Don Quixote - partly written in prison.
De Profundis by Wilde - direct from Reading Jail.
and ofcourse you own particular favourite:
Mein Kampf by Adolf.

This one is for you essential reading and you should get a copy while you still have time:
In the Belly of the Beast: Letters From Prison by Jack Henry Abbot.

Apparently it 'hauntingly depicts what a cruel and unjust prison system can do to a man’s mental state.' Now doesn't that sound nice.

As for creepy, sorry I don't do creepy. I do however do camp, and bright red ladies bags, and shirts open to the chest, and lollipops nodoubt? All much fun. :-*

Yeah I read something on yer blog about Pretzels.

Talking about yer blog, I see you are having a bit of technical trouble over at MPEx and have opened up a few options for a  bit of a vote. Interesting - comments are welcome. Do you log the IP address of people leaving comments?

http://trilema.com/2014/mpexrfc1/#respond (http://trilema.com/2014/mpexrfc1/#respond)

Something I saw on that page made me chuckle:
'Let me restate the related point that everyone in Bitcoin, without exception, is doing corporate communication'.

So.....this is you freely admitting that all of your Trolling on BcoinT is PR for MPEx. How tragically sad. You are THIS desperate for money? I thought you did this for the laughs? Nope, just sad and broke.  :D :D :D :D

Newest hilarity from mpex:

http://trilema.com/2014/the-wunderbar-smpif/



Wow. What would we do without your expert eye. Very impressive fund so far.


Good idea. Does the strategy include make unfair bets and determine the results according to your own ruling? Seems legit.


Very smart. How would the fund survive without market manipulation?

Overall I give this investment a 9/10. Only drawback is not enough gambling.

Just WOW.

People are actually buying into this?!!!

Like you say, this has manipulation written all over it. That is the only way to make it work - there is no chance a freely operating system like this would make it past a few weeks before going bankrupt. So it will be a scam, plain and simple. There will only be ONE winner with this dirty little scheme.

 ::) ::) ::)


'my expert eye' = I will be cooking the books.

Well, it really does seem to be getting bought (http://trilema.com/2014/the-first-trading-day-of-fmpif/).

Contract and stats are here (http://mpex.co/?mpsic=F.MPIF).

Impressive. I wonder how much of that buying is someone other than mircea. My guess is ~20btc. Not bad for an "ill stick your money in just-dice because you lack the mental capabilities fund"

Mircea could make a lemonade stand fund asking for 5000 btc and the investonomers from the cult of bitcoin-assets would still buy in*. I wouldn't be surprised if he sells more than 12 million bitcoins worth of shares knowing he can keep buying from himself indefinitely.

*as long as it involves fleecing money from gamblers, cooking the books, and monthly financial reports (no matter how vague).

I guess MPs victims are realising that they're only able to trade 2 stocks for their BTC30 and are forced to buy that crap in sheer desperation to somehow make their money back.

http://www.coindesk.com/sec-eric-voorhees-deal-unauthorized-securities-sales/

bump

You'll notice the interesting part is all of the penalties happened because of his GLBSE asset rather than his MPEX one...

A better link (http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/06/03/the-sec-bares-its-gums-and-settles-with-erik/)

Lol.

Of course you cultists would distort reality and somehow see this as good news for mpex.

Did you even read the SEC statements?

He had some assets on GLBSE??? He always thrown a blame on GLBSE for being "kids stock market". Lol