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Suchmoon doesn't trust you, and frankly you've given people ample reason for that in the past couple of months alone.  I don't think you've scammed anyone, but you're obviously unstable in much the same way mixan (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=195206) was.  People here don't trust other people who go over the deep end, and you are presently at the far end of the pool, buddy.

There's also little chance you're going to get any support from anyone with this thread here because of your own trolling.  You've emotionally pleaded and raged against so much recently that folks are a bit tired of reading it, and my guess is that a lot of them have you on ignore already.

Hey, it wasn't me who tagged you.  Is suchmoon on DT?  He's on my trust list, which is customized and I don't know who's actually on DT anymore.  I'm aware of how I can check this, but I don't like messing with my list.  As I said, you didn't scam anyone, but you shouldn't be surprised that this happened.  At all.

You're oblivious as to what the criteria for being a scammer are.

No, I got tagged right after I bumped a merit source application, buddy. if he doesn't trust me, why should I get tagged as scammer? buddy you guys are running around with your abuse of power, tagging anybody who is not your bitch.

It's not like last time anybody supported me.

Okay I'll get this one on my watchlist to see what's going to happen.

I've seen your tag by suchmoon before you open this thread and I think this going to be another personal quarrel.

I am not sure how defending people makes you a scammer. Surely everyone has the right to present their side of a dispute....maybe suchmoon disagrees with this.

Even I will disagree with it especially if the case was yours.

They are emotionally unstable and they would react to other people on a personal level sort of conflict, they are not aware of the consequences of their actions, they should not be given any power over other people, now I am tagged as scammer by default again. this has turned to be a tool in the wrong hands this trust system.

I would like to request for an immediate removal of my illegit red tag, I'm trying to improve the serious business affairs of community members and earn an honest money by doing so, I don't deserve to be called scammer by default.

Every time I tried to take part in forum business by either applying to become a mod or a merit source I have got red tagged wrongfully and this has to end. if I'm unstable, my actions are not, if I'm controversial, my actions were not controversial. I haven't scammed anybody. I as anyone else have the right to defend and speak about the truth. I believe DT members are abusing their power and this case is my evidence.

If suchmoon is thinking that he is untouchable, there will be nothing stopping him from continuing this behavior. this is not a coincident, I got tagged after bumping my merit source application, this is suchmoon saying that he doesn't want me to become a source, this is defamation at it's best.

I should be allowed to stand up against abuse of power, I should be allowed to try my best at helping this community which I'm a small member of. I have said that me posting links to meritorious posts is not enough and sufficient way for me to contribute, hence I did a bump for my application to be reinstated as a merit source in order to harness my full potential. if I had to resign for the wrong reasons, do I not have the right to reapply to make it up to the community?

If I see there is nobody helping the community, should I get tagged if suchmoon has a crush on this forum?

@suchmoon, believe me that I don't want you gone from DT, above statement is a general term I would like to use for people with similar behavior, do not let your personal feelings to cloud your judgment man, I'm not a scammer, you could bad mouth me all you want but tagging me like a scammer is not right. I don't want to hurt your reputation, I'm simply asking you to reconsider please.

His tag actually does lead to a forum post. Your service of helping remove red trust. Pay yourself .01 and get to work removing your tag.

In all seriousness, he has the right to not trust you. Trust is not moderated and you go off half cocked quite alot. You're making the wrong kind of waves in the community. You seem to be the 1 who feels he is untouchable.

Let's see. The reference links to:

https://archive.fo/5Gh8i

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3779450

You are:

• Offering a questionable service in a self-moderated thread
• Claiming abilities that you don't possess
• Lacking any trade history
• Providing one vouch/reference - yourself
• Requesting upfront payment without escrow
• Admitting that you will abscond with the money if you don't succeed

I think for most users any one of the last three would earn red tags up the wazoo except this is digaran, the village idiot, so we shall give him a pass, right? I don't think so.

But don't despair, this is actually great for you. I'm not removing my trust rating under any circumstances so I just reduced the work you need to do by half. Your only option is to kick me out of DT. If you succeed you can add another solid reference to your service offer.

I don’t see any fake vouches on the OPs thread.

The OP is free to offer his services on terms of his choice. Similarly any potential buyers of his service can ask for terms they want. If the two sides cannot agree to terms, the OP will not be able to sell his services. I don’t think it is appropriate for an unrelated third party to try to dictate terms that others can trade on. Unless the OP is being deceptive in some way, there should be no issue.

Of course a DT-related thread would not be complete without the scammer extraordinaire pretending like he's an expert and shit...


As an example of his "work", he links to a thread where he is his own "client".


Why do you tag users for asking for no-collateral loans then? They should be free to offer any terms they want, including no collateral.

Somebody who got tagged wrongfully comes to me, I would evaluate their case, if I see they were tagged illegitimately, I would request for the money upfront and would discuss the issue with the DT member who has left the tag.

If they remove the tag, I win and my client wins, community would also win.
If I can't convince the DT member to remove the tag, I would present the case to the public to see and judge by themselves, with enough illegit tags I could then convince the community to kick that DT member out of his/her position.

If I could find enough illegit cases, I could earn money while helping the community to get rid of power abuse, if there is not enough power abuse, I would earn no money.

If I don't have enough credit for not using escrow for 0.01 should I use DT members as escrow? the ones I don't trust to have a sound judgment? am I desperate for 0.01? I would shut up if people say that I'm not worth 0.01.

There were at least 3 DT2 members posting on my thread before you tagging me, how come they didn't think of your points made above to tag me? how come you tagged me right after I bumped my application?

Of course you wont remove your tag because you feel that you own this place. I will prove you wrong.

Escrow has nothing to do with DT. Just another proof that you have no clue about the very thing your service is about.

And of course your "service" isn't worth 0.01 BTC. You're a clown who pretends to be a lawyer.


I don't know when you bumped your application nor do I care. I also don't care if other DT2 members tag you or not. That's pretty much the point if the trust system. If everyone was subscribing to the same hive mind we would need this system.


I won't remove my tag because it's factual and you can't deny anything I posted in my explanation. I'm not sure how you can prove me wrong about something you just made up but have at it.

Lets see:

My terms in my thread are as follows:

No refund.
Means you either trust me to deliver and would pay me first in good faith or you see and read my terms and pass on my offer.

It's pathetic the way he tries to act all moral when he's holding onto tens hundreds of thousands of dollars in stolen coins.  :/

And my feedback says you shouldn't be trusted so it's all working out exactly as you expected.

Except I'm not a scammer.

I would also like to know if you tagged me after I bumped my application or before? because I'd look guilty if I knew that I was already tagged.

Weak sauce. You have proven quite comprehensively that your words don't mean anything.

Am I a scammer?

I would like to ask for a better reason as to why suchmoon has left a positive trust on forum member: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=313016 ? there is no reference. could we come to conclusion that he is abusing his DT position for personal gains?


@suchmoon, why would you counter a negative trust which has a reference pointing to an extortion attempt by owlcatz?
When it comes to your friends you would abuse your power, is this a man we should trust?

Owlcatz has literally nothing to do with that thread, thus the counter rating is valid. Don't drag innocent people into your dispute. Counter ratings are per-definition not abuse.

What personal gain do I get from that rating?

With your every post you're confirming how utterly clueless you are about the trust system.

Giving suchmoon absolute power could lead to abuse. if Ognasty has left an inaccurate negative trust on owlcatz, that is abuse of power.

Anyways, I have fixed my mistakes now and I expect suchmoon to reconsider about his tags on me.

So you admit that you were in the wrong and suchmoon's tag was justified?

Eh...no?  What exactly would be the gain?

Take a look at my feedback, or Vod's, or Lauda's, or anyone who's on DT.  You'll find tons of feedback, both positive and negative, that doesn't include any references.  That's a fact of life here, because trust isn't moderated and giving a reference is suggested but isn't a rule.

In the case of suchmoon's feedback for owlcatz, that's been a long-standing feud that unfortunately shows no signs of dying down.  The only thing I can say is that some people believe that what transpired wasn't a true extortion attempt, but a sting operation--and I think everyone involved realizes at this point that it was a mistake.  You can believe it or not believe it, but that's what the feedback was for.

Digaran, all of this screaming about your feedback and raging against DT members isn't going to help your case.  I say that as someone who doesn't have a personal beef with you, so it's somewhat objective.  Your time would be better spent not doing this and perhaps calming down a bit and doing things to help the forum would be a better approach.

Oh.  Maybe my brain is as addled as digaran's is, but he brought up the extortion thing.  I can't keep track of all this mudslinging, so I'll probably just keep quiet.

I agree that I should have used escrow. if I trust myself it doesn't mean that everybody else should trust me.

No, that's not what owlcatz's feedback is about. It isn't an issue of whether it was a sting or not. He was not involved in any way or form, neither directly not indirectly. I thought this needed clearing up as even you seem to misunderstood it and it was brought in here.

You might as well wait forever; welcome to the club.

OK, that's the first step. It wasn't just escrow, you offered a service you couldn't perform and said no refunds.

Now take this in, The Pharmacist said it better than I would.


Try acting like a trustworthy member of the forum and prove yourself over a period of a few months and then maybe it would be in order to ask suchmoon to reconsider.

I don't need to prove myself to suchmoon, here is a change of circumstances, I want to have a reputation and a business, are you willing to compensate me for few months of waiting? now I'm tagged as a scammer, I'm not a scammer so there is no need for me to be called a scammer by default.


That's where you are wrong, I shouldn't have to wait forever, if there is no evidence of me being a scammer I should have neutral trust instead of negative trust. if you guys are friends with each other and counter each other's trust ratings, nobody is doing that for me, why should I join your club if there is no seat for me in it? my reputation is at risk here, if this is the standard of dealing with people, let us know. if suchmoon could counter owlcatz negative trust and leave me to be called a scammer by default, let us know. if you are willing to close your eyes for your friends and open them for me, let us know.
If you see that there is no need for me to be called a scammer by default you should tell that to suchmoon, otherwise it could continue like this if nobody is fixing the mistake.

Negative trust =/= scammer.

You have been given negative trust for offering a service in which you really have no control over. You claim that you can remove negative trust and once a client pays there will be 0 refunds.

Basically you plan on trying to be a paid troll to bug the fuck out of whomever tagged a user in hopes they will remove the neg mark on your clients account. Not gonna work, all you are doing is stealing money from your possible clients.

I also noticed you now raised the fee to .02btc. 170$ to perform a service in which you have 0 control. You're also gonna have an escrow hold the funds. That's supposed to make the service more appealing? Sounds legit

What sounds illegit is the fact that DT members have the right to act as a judge and inflict real damage on our reputation and business.
If I get paid to represent a wrongfully red tagged member, people wouldn't say that I am defending a shitposter or a scammer.
If I do it for free, people would say that I'm defending scammers. if what I'm trying to do is stealing, every lawyer is a thief then? because they are not winning every case but they are getting paid for it.

Why should we allow DT members to act as a judge but not allowing me to act as a lawyer? because they all are trusted by theymos right? here is my case, but where is theymos to see if DT members are abusing their power? nowhere to be found.

EDIT: exactly, I don't have any control over negative ratings, I'm getting paid for my time spending on each case.

Do you think s/he understand it? S/he thinks only linear. You can't help these types of mentally disordered people.

Notice how he flips his statements...
Before
https://i.imgur.com/iLuYEu9.png
Now
https://i.imgur.com/aqXjTiv.png

This guys is mentally unstable and do not know what is he doing. So, he can not be trusted. IMO red trust from suchmoon has been justified correctly.

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Cos now he has a portfolio - defending his own case so price raised. You know, experienced gained so demand gained = price raising.

PS: When I get bored, I look for his topics for entertainment and I never get disappointed.

Digaran,remember when you told people to report thousands of shitposts to help the community or donate 200,000$(1) to the forum so that they could get their "negative tag" removed,why not do what you preach? I dare you.

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Man that's how life works. Suck it up. Its not anyone else's fault if you can't prove or even seem to others as a trustworthy person. You have to blame yourself for the consequences caused by your own actions(which is your post history and your sarcasm that almost no one understands).

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(1):
As per digaran's trust ratings to others:
https://i.imgur.com/T3DcWvl.png

Request denied. Your execution resumes at dawn as scheduled, good sir!


You can't actually be that dense to think that you were given negative feedback for bumping your merit application.


Pro-Tip, it is your thread.


Forum posts can be deleted and edited. We use archive around here to keep a record.


Your actions are perceived by many to be trolling, scamming and extortion, yet you believe that somebody voicing their opinion on your behavior is an abuse of power. You have a long way to go, and that over-inflated ego needs to be popped.


By the way, you are scamming anybody that sends you BTC with the hopes that you will remove their rating. If I started a service that I "may or may not" deliver on the product, and if I don't then forget about a refund then I would assume people do feel very distrusting towards my service. Your rating is warranted.

my dear sir i only use one  account for bounty work . i ca't use broth account and i am doing buy and sell ETH, BTC And another alt coin  , Because of which many people are dealing with me. That does not mean that I use all the accounts . Mr.Coolcryptovator Say with a post

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3879020.msg37501194#msg37501194

  I use a lot of accounts This is false, this is not the right information I request DT Member Or Moderator Remove the Red Trust Mark from my account And yes if DT Member Or Moderator  do not believe me , Then DT Member Or Moderator  said What i need to do or how i proof i use only one account than  you will believe me and remove red trust mark , I'm ready to do what you say . please trust me i only use one account .

i hope DT Member Or moderator find out  real information than make red trust

I think you may have stumbled into the wrong thread. You are looking for one of the threads crying about The Pharmacist; You see, this is a thread dedicated to crying about suchmoon. I can see how you would get confused.

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digaran, these will be the type of users that you are going to attract. You must notice that you are on the wrong side of things here.

Knock! knock!! A customer here LOL

@realusinvestment create a thread on meta section if you think you have given the red trust by mistake or if you think the justification is wrong. Don't you see here people are humiliating this mentally ill guy? No one can help you removing red trust because trust are not moderated. You only can help yourself talking to the person who tagged you.

You're right about that bud. I've told you upfront that you're wasting your time trying to change my mind.


You have a potential client three posts up. My red tag doesn't prevent you from taking that case and you don't have to wait months.

Edit: just to make sure we're on the same wavelength here - your red tag is not coming off because you're prone to shit like this:

https://meem.link/i/a/BJl6jP.jpg
Edited 2020-11-29 to fix a broken image

It doesn't matter how many times you edit your thread. I'm not gonna babysit you watching what you're up to next.

You have proved yourself untrustworthy and deserving of that tag. Making a few edits to your post doesn't reverse that. Someone with judgment so poor as to offer the service on the terms you did is someone to avoid doing business with. I don't think you will ever convince anyone here to trust you. I merely suggested it would be wise to at least spend a few months rebuilding your trashed reputation before even thinking about asking anyone to reconsider.

And you have proven to be a poor individual trying to close your eyes to harassment and abuse to keep your weekly paycheck of signature campaign.

This is not exactly being hidden very well by the OP. One might even say it should be clear to anyone that he was his own client and others are free to take this into consideration, although there is no “vouch” and I wouldn’t see the need to.
These people create accounts with the intention of getting a loan they have no intention of repaying. The amount of effort put into these scam attempts is literally under two minutes. Further, this scam relies upon someone being naive enough to quickly fund the loan before they read warnings from others. The OP has more than 2 posts and is not a newbie.

That is the worst part. Newbies are stupid. this guy is a fucking retard. Suchmoon has been telling explicitly why he tagged digaran and he keeps spreading lies. He just ignores the facts like every other person who gets tagged here.

The OP is being transparent that he is not guaranteeing success. It is not unusual to change for your time and not success, especially when the outcome is unknown. Criminal defense attorneys will charge for their time even if their client is found guilty.

It is especially appropriate to not guarantee outcomes when there are as many people on Bkazed’s trust list that refuse to publicly discuss or defend trust ratings and stick up for others who leave disputed ratings and advocate for these people to not be held in any way accountable.

The newbie loan scam is not a new user trying to get a loan, it is someone familiar with the forum trying to get a new loan with a brand new account, that will not result in him being held accountable when he fails to repay said loan.

Probably Totally yes. But let's not get off-topic here,I am really getting into that.
Fun fact: digaran has now decided to offer campaign management services. I am still waiting for digaran to answer my question:How are you even going to get a single client,when you don't even know what you're doing?

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Trying to offer different types of services after acting annoyingly weird is totally cool,or is it?

You show you are trustworthy over time by acting in a trustworthy way, or at least in a way in which others view you as trustworthy.

I would not say the OP doesn’t know what he is doing. Not every case is winnable. Everyone has the right for their side to be heard though.

Where did I say that it's hidden? And yes, the whole point of my feedback is to make it easier for anyone, including those who don't happen to read all digaran's posts, to take his shenanigans into consideration.


It doesn't explain your 180 on "unrelated third party to try to dictate terms that others can trade on". Unless you're saying that you're somehow related to those newbie loan scammers? Or maybe (gasp) you made a bullshit claim that you're now trying to bake into a pretzel.


FINALLY!!! What took you so long? We got the real reason why you're here. Could learn to spell the name of your nemesis at least.

Now that digaran has moved onto other business ventures you can take over his red tag removal service, since you're so fond of it.


digaran keeps asking who's responsible for me being in DT. Of course he doesn't know shit, he can't even open the trust page and look up such a simple fact. His service was a total sham. You're defending it just because it fits your narrative.  ::)

It appears that you are mentally retarded, I have removed what has been said to be the reason for my red tag yet you are babbling about it as if it is still relevant. you are trying to abuse your power, you refuse to change your feedback because you feel that you have the right to tag me as a scammer.

You don't. you are not the judge here as much as you believe that I'm not an attorney.

Right, when you delete something on the internet it's as if it never happened ::)

I told you upfront that I'm not going to remove my feedback. I don't believe you can change your ways and your recent behavior has confirmed that.

Why didn't you tag me first with your reasons in your second tag? because you wanted to bully me with your first tag, because you immediately tagged me after I bumped my merit source application. no worries though, I have already excluded you and actmyname plus *mexxer-2 from my trust list.

*I believe that he intentionally merited me to force Lauda to tag me as a merit farmer/beggar, therefore I don't trust him.

EDIT: don't act so surprised, I know very well who are your bosses, I just don't want to mention their names yet.

Shit! Once theymos adds you to DT1, I guess it's over for us. Oh, digaran, will you ever forgive us? We'll create dozens of threads just for you so that you'll feel pity and remove your exclusions!

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Mate, I don't have any bosses. If you want to throw out these blanket statements, go ahead. But you're just digging yourself deeper into a fetid alcove of stagnant water.

digaran - I'll take a 10 BTC escrowed bet that you don't know the name of my boss.

Blazed and dooglus. pay me or I'll tag you for backing from a bet.

Are you assuming that because Blazed and dooglus included suchmoon into their trust list that they are suchmoon's boss? That's a little surface-level, isn't it? If I include you in my trust list, will I then be your boss? How inane.

Blazed isn't my boss, either ;)

I haven't actually had contact with them in months.

Are you suchmoon now or you forgot to switch accounts?

I don't work for Blazed or dooglus. Are we gonna do this properly or not? I suggest minerjones as escrow.

I'm referring to them in the third person. I don't see how this makes you think that I'm suchmoon. You're scrounging here, trying to grasp at straws. Wild accusations are never going to help you.

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It's not going to happen because everybody you suggest will be an alt of yours or on the DT list and therefore untrustworthy. ::)

There is nothing to close my eyes to. You deserve that tag as a result of your actions. That isn't harassment or abuse and is totally unrelated to whether or not I choose to rent out my signature space.

Which actions? if I value my time and want compensation in exchange for it, you see me as untrustworthy?

Yes.

Answering for somebody else I see.

I am going to call out Blazed and dooglus to see these threads, if they refuse to take actions I will tag them for being irresponsible. it's like they don't care if their trusted DT2 members are ruining forum members reputation, why should they have any respect from this community. if you see that suchmoon and actmyname are harassing me and say nothing, the community would see the truth and you will lose our trust and respect @Blazed & @dooglus.

Did you even PM them? "@" does fuck all.

I will. first I need to see if you listen to reason.

I've listened to you enough already. This is what I told you 4 days ago:


Now you're finally getting around to it and you certainly didn't present any "reason" in those 4 days that would make change my opinion of you.

While we're at it, don't forget to include marlboroza's "boss", he probably feels left out. Or do you need Quicksy's help to figure out who that is?

Of course, you want me to suck? I wont. go have a teenage boy to suck for you pretending to be a girl. hint: alia scandal.
If you are not removing your tag and nobody is telling you to do it, only means that you own DT1 accounts.

Do you think that I don't know you DT members are farming green trust accounts to scam people? yeah @people these abusers are farming trust back and forth and then sell those accounts and the buyers would scam people with all sorts of shady shit activities.

I think you need to lay off the hard drugs. You're getting a bit ambitious now with your conspiracy theories. Next you'll start spouting out bullshit about how suchmoon is theymos.

I know truth hurts.

Yes.

No - you need to realise that you are a prized wankface prized cunt.


you probably enjoy sucking yourself when you are off your meds - why is it those who are so untrustworthy try to judge others by your own standards?

Only scumbag bottom feeding Pajeet fucks like you farm accounts.

I see digaran more as a crazy neighbor that you don't take all that seriously because he's obviously deranged.  Or like a little dog who's chained up all day outside--he'll bite his own tail and bark at anything that moves.  He makes a ton of noise but you know he can't hurt you, and at the end of the day it's his own tail that's bleeding.

That's why I haven't left a neg for him.  I would also suggest that he visit whoever is prescribing that fluoxetine and perhaps have a discussion about whether the dose needs to be tweaked or perhaps something needs to be added to it, or an additional diagnosis needs to be made.

LOL.

Yeah. The truth hurts which is why you keep trying to formulate all these pea-brained conspiracy theories about how the forum works. I have zero alt accounts. I am not colluding with DefaultTrust members - in fact, I don't even message them on a regular basis.

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You've already resorted to lashing out incessantly with toxic bullshit. That's why you're being responded to. Not harrassed.

The only reason you think that you're being singled out is that your ego is so monstrously overinflated like a hernia-afflicted scrotum, the cognitive dissonance within you is just begging for an explanation, no matter how incorrigibly inane it is. But it's clear that you're past sensibilities and will now sway it away with another asinine word salad.

I like to think of him in a similar vein to the crazy homeless person/drunk/drug addict, the bloke who shouts about UFO's and how the moon landing was faked.

Diagram is a cross between the village idiot/a homeless person/a much more retarded forest gump and the bloke of the green mile who kept the mouse..

Go extort people and say that it was a sting operation. now we're the village idiots.

The reason why I'd vouch for you and respect your opinion and judgement, you are not going to tag me because you know that would be a personal use of your DT power. but please don't call me by your own name. we all know that you are the dog in this community. you are the one biting people all the time, I still respect your judgement and would vouch for you even if you tag me. I wont complain if you tag me. let this be here for the records. that's how much I believe in you.

Yeah, which explains the current trust rating that is being portrayed in digaran's account. The negative trust that DT members have left him are only because of digaran's behavior. Had he been straightforward from start, who knows things would have been different.

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If he knew what he was doing:
- He would have known why he was tagged. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3853171.msg37417056#msg37417056)
- He would have known who added suchmoon to DT. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3853171.msg37414857#msg37414857)
- He would have not offered a service that would lead him nowhere. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3779450.msg37186083#msg37186083)
- He wouldn't have even got his neg tag had he knew his shit. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=806776;sa=showPosts)
- He wouldn't ignore the truth that is straight up clear. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=806776)
- He wouldn't be trolling or harassing anybody. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3853171.msg37951006#msg37951006)
- He wouldn't be asking asking the same question again and again.  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3853171.msg37475146#msg37475146)

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I can go on and on and I have a lot more references to link.  :D

I would not put that much trust in the "system". Especially considering the lack of willingness to even discuss trust ratings by those in DT, and the lack of consideration of verifiable facts and the opinion of the community of a whole of those in DT when handing out ratings.

I guess some people just don't trust trolls and I don't blame them. Is diagran a scammer? There's no evidence for that. Is he untrustworthy? I wouldn't trust him exactly because of his behaviour. He's done several shady (or at the very least stupid) things and this is what happens when you spend your time acting like a buffoon and trolling because people don't know whether to take you seriously or not. I kinda felt sorry for him at first but I think he probably enjoys the attention of being an outcast now and isn't going to change so he's likely a lost cause.

I see the point you are making, but in this particular instance I don't see this being relevant. There certainly is no lack of willingness to discuss the ratings left on digaran. I don't believe anyone here to be lacking consideration for verifiable facts, besides digaran, and it seems like the general opinion of the community is that he's an untrustworthy troll. If the system is at fault for other problems, then that is to be discussed there; the grievances you claim in your post with the system and DT members are not applicable in this case. Unless, I'm missing something, in which case I'd love to hear it.

The trust system is too over-rated,yes. But it is what it is. People trust that green shit too much (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2751956.msg34179823#msg34179823). Some DT members don't bother to explain their ratings sometimes,but suchmoon is fair in his ratings and judgement,from what I have seen. Suchmoon explained this case very well,whilst digaran didn't even bother to look at the reference.

Imagine if DT network gets even more decentralized,shit will get fucked up even more. Maybe a whole redo of DT network may change things for the better.

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He wants more than just mere attention. He wants to help the community(?). Probably not,but you never know. He almost left bitcointalk (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4158154.msg38227812#msg38227812) but alas.

Stop stalking me. ;) soon you all will lose the trust of this community. we can see that you all are using merit and trust system for your own personal gains.  for example a known extortionist who is also a merit source has merited "yes" (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3853171.msg37883157#msg37883157) with 5 sMerits. why? because he doesn't know how not to use merit/trust as a personal tool.

The fact that I have offered a service in exchange for money and got tagged for it shows that suchmoon is trying to sabotage me here. who the fuck are any of you to tell me that my time is not worth money and I can't ask for money in exchange for my time?

Why are you blind? suchmoon didn't tag me accurately the first time, he only tagged me for the second time after I pointed out his misuse of the DT power. then he said that he wont remove his tag under any circumstances. no chance of appeal and no chance of changing his mind. he wants me tagged no matter what I do. tell me if that is not abuse of power. we live in a civilized world, acting like this is barbaric. I have asked him to remove his first tag on me to discuss terms about removing the second tag, he said in a PM that I have a meltdown and he is not going to remove them.

What he wants is that I should earn his trust, how can I do that? by doing a trade with him? that is wrong and trust farming. by agreeing with him and suck for him? I wont do it. I want him to tag me for the right reason, not because he doesn't trust me. whatever I do to earn his trust would be wrong. I don't need his trust or respect. I don't want to have anything to do with him. he is an irresponsible person and a bully, he should be removed from DT. even if he removes his tags on me, he still should be removed. all he is doing is holding people down.

The reason I stated this is that digaran started that thread (the one I negged him for) AFTER he got marlboroza to reconsider the first neg. That is a very deliberate action that makes me think digaran is unable to stay out of trouble, and that's pretty much what I stated in my feedback.

Not everything has to fit your made-up DT template, Mr. Know-It-All-Escrow-Scammer.


Stop lying. I don't want that. For reasons stated above.


Yet you're refusing to contact DT1 members. Let's get it over with.

Ummm... that's the whole point behind the trust system... he doesn't trust you, so he gave you negative trust.


Suchmoon didn't tag you for trying to offer a service in exchange for money... they tagged you for offering a service that you could not possibly provide in exchange for money (with no refunds). There is quite a large distinction between those two things.

I believe that suchmoon has made this distinction pretty clear.

Here is the problem. When someone is deciding if they want to trade with him, they will know that a negative rating means “~this person scammed you or you strongly believe he is a scammer” and when they review his ratings they will see this doesn’t really match the situation so they might decide to trust him, at least a little bit. Next this person trading with diagran reviews the ratings of someone else they are considering to trade with and it is the same situation, they aren’t really a scammer but have negative ratings. Eventually this person will stop relying on negative ratings because they do frequently are given for those who aren’t really scammers and eventually trust an actual scammer with negative trust.

If you don’t find someone trustworthy but have no evidence they are a scammer, you should not give them positive trust and you can warn others in sales threads if you wish. Pretty much everyone has no reason to be trusted but shouldn’t have negative trust and isn’t necessarily a scammer. If someone doesn’t have positive ratings from reputable sources anyone trading with them should take precautions to protect themselves, no premptative negative rating is required for this.

A hypocrite scammer and his concern trolling at its finest:

https://i.imgur.com/yMLt1dR.png

---

It's time to let these threads go or at least consolidate them into one.

Slippery slope fallacy with no basis in fact. I could say that the hypothetical "someone" would appreciate the early warning regarding shady shit involving their potential trading partner and that would make DT more useful as a prevention tool in addition to being a scammer labeling tool. On the other hand the hypothetical scenario that you're describing is a good use case for an exclusion. So why don't you exclude me with all your alts and move on.

Not sure WTF "premptative" means but if you need to invent new words to make a point then you lost the argument.

We can see that at least one of the DT1 members has an alt account included on DT2, what makes you think that other DT1 members are not doing the same? normal members are giving their alt accounts merits, what makes you think that DT members are not giving their own alt accounts positive trust?

I'd like to advise against trusting suchmoon, actmyname and marlboroza with anything. this is based on my own personal interactions with them, I believe that they are not honest and are abusing merit and trust system for their own personal gains, whether it to be for bullying other forum members or to give their friends merits and +trust. suchmoon has given positive trust to counter a negative trust given by a reputable forum member. he/she is abusing his DT power.

If you read the reference of his red trust on me, there is no attempt of scam. I have asked for money in exchange for my time, however after seeing the community's reaction to my behavior I have decided to change my behavior and now am offering a free service, yet suchmoon insists on holding my reputation hostage. this person shouldn't be trusted.

Your concerns regarding suchmoon, actmyname and marlboroza have been noted. Any chance you could stop endlessly spamming nonsense now?

Eh, yeah that's probably true and I realize digaran hasn't scammed anyone that I know of, but I'm not sure if he's a person I'd want to trade with--imagine trying to do a deal with someone as mentally unstable as he is.  I didn't tag him because, as I've said before, I think he's basically a harmless nincompoop who barks a lot but hasn't yet bit anyone hard enough to make the skin bleed.  I don't think he's been tagged inappropriately, because his taggers don't trust him.  Period. 

That quote from the trust page "this person scammed you or you strongly believe he is a scammer" has become just a guideline and we all know it.  Bitcointalk doesn't have a tool to alert people that a member is a shitposter, or a merit beggar, or an insane person who hasn't scammed anyone but probably shouldn't be trusted.  It's a one-size-fits-all trust system, and people should look into any comments on anyone's trust page and make their own decision based on what is said and what's in the reference link (if one is given).

No, we can't see that. Who is that?


Lack of facts would make me think that.


Countering neg trust is not abuse.


The feedback is factual. It will stay.

Probably hilariousandco/hilariousetc.

---

People don't look at the comments. People just look at the something that just freaks them out,and they just flip out without giving the benefit of the doubt. People are like that in general,they don't know shit. They just react rather than respond. So general people would just assume digaran to be a scammer.

---

We all know that digaran is a nuts but you can give him the benefit of the doubt to see for yourself what he wants to do actually by converting the tag from negative to neutral? I am not siding on him,though.

The reason I'm not doing that is because he already flipped once after he neutralized marlboroza's feedback. Here is the sequence of events IIRC:

1) digaran suggests to collect payments to remove red trust.
2) digaran gets negative trust from marlboroza, which becomes red trust once marlboroza is added to DT2.
4) digaran manages to convince marlboroza that he was "joking" (?) and red trust becomes neutral.
5) digaran starts a thread offering dodgy "service" promising to remove red trust for a fee.
6) digaran gets permanent negative trust from me.

Based on this pattern I was quite certain that if I removed my neg digaran would continue to ramp up his shady activities involving trust, merits, or other forum facilities and I clearly stated in response to his initial complaint that my feedback will stay. Since then digaran has doubled down on lies and conspiracy theories, which is reinforcing my opinion. I don't believe in third chances except for my kids and to the best of my knowledge digaran does not qualify for that exemption.

Except I never asked to remove my own tags on people in exchange of money for myself. it was marlboroza's action that made me think we could have a chance reasoning with people.

I asked for money in exchange for my service representing other people, I would have wanted to act as their representative instead of them acting alone on their own. however I have decided to offer a free service after you judged me.

I will not engage in any discussion with you anymore because it is useless to discuss anything after you have said that you wont remove the tags under any circumstances. I would let people to decide for themselves and see if there was any attempt at scamming by me.

Accusing everyone who disagrees with you of being alts or in collusion or otherwise "abusing" the system is not reasoning. Nice attempt at whitewashing though.

That's exactly what an alt of actmyname/marlboroza/blazed/me/theymos/satoshi/every hero member/every legendary member/every DT1/every DT2/the cartel/the mafia/Jesus would say!

Wait, where is my name? ::) I thought I was the master of these alt collusion things ???

Shit, my bad. Although we have previously established that you are an alt of Satoshi (and The Pharmacist, and nullius, and god knows how many others), so I guess you are included by proxy.

@suchmoon, I sincerely apologize if I have offended you in any way, tell me what can I do to fix this and then we could move forward together improving the trust system and the forum as a whole?

If you're angling for your neg trust removal - not happening for reasons explained to you multiple times. I think the forum has been improved by these comments on your trust page.

People would say that you're full of shit. You just don't want the drama to end. You keep stalking me in various threads and bringing up your "abuse" case yet you refuse to take the one action that you can actually take. You keep referring to "people in position of power" yet you refuse to even talk to people who can do something about it. (Hint: it ain't just dooglus)

Asslicking or threatening won't work, don't bother.

Lol. who is now stalking who?

Still you? suchmoon is just responding to the quote, not bringing up other shit that you've posted. They've just decided that since the thread you posted in has nothing to do with them, that they would rather redirect the conversation here.

::)

---

Have you contacted Blazed?

Now that you are here, can I ask you a question? would you like to tag me for offering the service? or will you tag me later saying that it wasn't needed to tag me because suchmoon and marlboroza had already tagged me? ;)

Sneaky bastard updated the thread title. I don't think that counts as "contact" though.

You asked for it. ;)

I most certainly didn't. You're lying again.

You mean the red trust removal service? No. I seldom add multiple negative feedbacks to a user. Do you want me to? Because since you've made the thread, your image has started degrading steadily, especially as you continue to dig the hole deeper.

You are a lier, how many times have you asked me to contact DT1 members? however after giving it some thoughts, I have decided it would be better to change the title instead of directly contacting them, they are not my personal tool to use them as I please. I'd only call them out publicly because that's all I can do, contacting them via PM could be considered as if I am asking for personal favors from them and that is a wrong thing to do.

Zero. I asked if you have contacted them yet. Not the same thing as asking "digaran, please contact DT1 members".

And I most certainly didn't ask you to change the thread title nor do I think this counts as "contact" as I've clearly stated above. You're also being unfair to actmyname and marlboroza - you didn't call them "minions". I don't want to usurp such a cool nickname exclusively for myself.

Speaking of lying... you said you will PM them. Now you're just weaseling out of it to prolong the drama. Your case isn't gonna get stronger if you marinate it longer.

I don't see anything wrong with this. Obviously, he trusts his alt, he's a Global Moderator for crying out loud, and now he can tag perps from his alt account too.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with it as long as his alt is fair and on point with his tags. however one has to wonder, if don hilary has transparently included his alt on DT2, what makes you think that other DT1 members are not including their own alt accounts on DT2 behind our backs?

The lack of evidence, would be a good place to start. If you have something to share, we're all waiting, but so far all I'm hearing is nonsensical conspiracy theories.

Your argument is simplified to this:

"If hilariousandco does something, then clearly everybody else does it too, but shadier."

---

It's kind of like when you cherry-pick data and then extrapolate it to fit the entire space. Something like, "lamb is a carcinogen and thus meat in general causes cancer"

or... "I do not like what you're saying, you must be part of the 'DT Cartel'"
or... "You refused to agree with my argument, therefore you must be a minion of DT"

Unfortunately, just because someone does something that you disagree with or do not like, it does not automatically validate whatever conspiracy theory you can come up with.

---

As (I hope) a relatively neutral third party, I have not seen any real proof of anything approaching systematic trust "abuse" by the DT members... In fact, I've seen instances where DT members have refused to tag someone I personally thought was "guilty" of something, because they did not believe there was enough evidence.

I've also seen instances where they have tagged people on the "balance of probabilities"... where I probably would not have.

However, just because they don't do what I personally would do, is not grounds to label them as "trust abusers" or "untrustworthy" or believe there to be some larger conspiracy at work, as far as I'm concerned.

I offered to help people, suchmoon tagged me for it. read reference, read title of my thread.

Only because you've edited to say something else. You were originally offering to relieve people of 0.01 BTC for what you described as a "red tag removal service". That's what you got tagged for.

No, you offered a "service" that you had no way to deliver, and you have proven that numerous times with your lack of knowledge about the trust system.

You can still help people but all you're doing is following people you dislike around the forum and trolling them with inane bullshit, like recently actmyname for the attempt to help out in the Vod/Anduck dispute.

Suppose I set up a thread that says "Send me 0.02 BTC and I'll send back double in 24 hours".

What do you think will happen?

Now, suppose a DT member has tagged me red for offering such a dubious service... and I change my thread title to "I'll give you 0.001 BTC for free"... And explain that I was just wanting to prove my day-trading skills and help other users make some free BTC.

Do you think that the red tag should be removed? Or do you think that the red tag should stay?

It is extremely interesting to me that you believe everyone on this forum to have amnesia, or short-term memory loss. This is why we use the archive.is as an alternative reference, even though you refuse (for some unknown reason) to acknowledge them as a proper reference. Specifically, so that you cannot edit your posts, change your titles and claim that there is a grand-conspiracy against you, as you are doing. "Read title of my thread" after deliberately changing the thread title to make yourself look better is another deceitful tactic that should further solidify any distrust that these members already had towards you.

Read the title of my thread which is accessible via reference link from first tag of suchmoon on my profile. it says : hire me to defend your case!

... which you're incapable of doing with any degree of competence and you wanted to get paid upfront without escrow.

You're like those translation bounty scammers using Google Translate - trying to find someone dumber than you to swindle.

Yes... and the giant signature and smaller personal text say what?

https://talkimg.com/images/2023/11/15/z88fN.png


Honestly, you should have just left your avatar as it was...

So the whole reason for my tag is based on wrong wording? red tag removal: click for more information=hire me to defend your case. end of story.

Let me explain it in another way:

One would say:

Rapist for hire. click for more information.
After clicking you'd see this:

Hello, I'd like to offer my raping service, I'd come to your house and would rape you if you are of legal age and with your consent, my fee is xx.xx.
Then you'd see that what he is doing is legal in his state/country.

Could you then throw such a person to jail as a real rapist? no because there has been misunderstanding and wrong wording. that is all I have tried to say all along, suchmoon and marlboroza tagged me for my wrong wording. note that I am not native English speaker.

Off to a great start with your analogy, eh?

::)

So then it's not rape.

Now it's prostitution.

Prostitution is not legal. Use a better analogy.

Misunderstanding? This shit is false advertising, then!

Threatening with violence could be a crime depending on the context but you're not in jail, you feckless moron.

Your fascination with rape has been noted. Knock this shit off, it's not funny.

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

There is a difference between being unable to articulate why you believe someone is a small in a small number of instances and using the fact that you "do not trust" someone as a basis for a negative rating in almost every instance.


In 2014, I called out (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=811345.0) a purchased account on DT that was being used to further a scam (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=809084.0). In response to my opening that thread, I received a negative rating from that person. Logically speaking, he did not trust me, as you generally will not trust someone calling out your scams, or otherwise accusing you of something that, if proven true would have negative consequences for you. Would you consider chalidore's negative rating against me to be "valid" on that same basis?


If you ask my opinion, suchmoon gave a negative rating to the OP because she does not like the services the OP is providing. The OP is offering to contest negative ratings the recipient feels is unjust, which has the potential to expose negative ratings given out for less than kosher reasons.


I don't know about you, but I don't send money to what is "probably" the correct address, and I don't see why you (or anyone who cares about their reputation) would act any differently when it comes to handing out negative ratings.

The fact that someone is a shit poster is handled by the merit system, and handled by the fact that they will get banned if they post too much nonsense.


Just because someone has not scammed someone, does not mean a negative rating is not appropriate. A negative rating would still be appropriate if there was a failed scam attempt, or if someone is showing signs they plan on attempting on scamming someone in the future.

I might agree with looking at comments on trust pages for comments that are not in your trust list as these comments to not play a factor in trust scores, and you generally should not ignore scam reports unless you can verify they are invalid. However the reason someone is in your trust network is because they give accurate ratings, and if you are finding that someone is giving out ratings that you are ignoring, then this person should not be in your trust network. 

Please come back when you sober up and try again.


Well, it's a good thing that nobody asked for your opinion.

The reasons for my negative rating have been thoroughly explained and you're just making shit up as usual. Digaran has shown that he's incapable of even grasping how DT works, let alone contesting anything.

I would say any recipient of unjust negative trust has a better capability to contest the negative rating themselves. Including digaran would be counter-productive in this regard.
Exposing unjust ratings is not something to be regulated by a commissioned 3rd party; that is a community effort.


If we're being honest, the idea of the service is not invalid once it is polished; the problem is the methods digaran claims they would pursue, the misleading nature and the combination of their previous desire to extort scammers over feedback. With the proper contingencies, terms, disclosures and methods this service may have had a prayer. Similarly to how escrow services are acceptable, unless you attempt to do so with no trade history or build reputation through escrowing for your alts.



Not entirely handled, though, is it? I would say that some sort of assistance or augmentation is appropriate, such as tagging people you believe to be untrustworthy for maliciously spamming.


Believing someone is untrustworthy and believing someone is going to scam are not necessarily one in the same. You can believe someone will betray your trust simply because they are unable to understand what would constitute "your trust"; there are endless subjective reasons to distrust someone. All of these are valid, in our system, as it is currently "enforced".

I agree, in most cases, it will be best to contest a negative rating yourself. However there are cases when this is not true, for example if you do not speak english very well, or if you are having trouble articulating an argument.

I would not say the type of service the OP is offering is regulating the contesting of unjust ratings in any way, the recipient is free to contest the rating himself.

Also on your point this being a community effort, I would agree, however I would also say the community has failed in this regard. The instances of cases in which contested ratings are really even discussed are few and far between. Most of the time, conversations about contested ratings both start and finish with "xx doesn't trust you, therefore the negative rating is valid" which in no way is looking into the legitimacy of the underlying rating.



I would disagree. Someone breaking forum rules needs to be dealt with via the administration either themselves or via delegated authority of the moderators. Most instances of rule breaking are dealt with by giving the person some kind of warning -- be it a PM, a post being deleted or a temp ban -- and the person doesn't break the underlying rule again (or they don't after multiple warnings). A negative rating on the other hand is pretty much always going to be longer lasting than any warning, and in most instances will be permanent -- this will result in many people effectively being excluded from the community that probably should not be.

You have a small number of people who leave negative ratings for subjective reasons (that are often questionable), it just appears this is more widespread because of the vast number of ratings they hand out. In my prior post, I provided an example of when I received a negative rating for no reason other than I was calling out a scam attempt someone was engaged in. By the criteria that you can leave a negative rating because you "distrust" someone would mean you can leave a negative rating for someone calling out your scam attempt, and if this is acceptable, then those in the DT network get a free pass in scamming.

Bumping for more visibility.

What was the response from Blazed?

Joining the club - although i really dont take it to the heart


Left me red trust, conviniently, after my post on Scam Accusations topic

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4895354.msg45146865#msg45146865 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4895354.msg45146865#msg45146865)

Im here for almost 2 years, and I have 30 positive feedbacks on Bitify - name me one person I have scammed so far? Also provided written response from Paypal employee on subject - it was ignored - called me a scamer for wanting to pay first, to do business with trusted members only and to use well known escrow (not his/hers)?



https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4994803.msg45094694#msg45094694 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4994803.msg45094694#msg45094694)


And here is some material for thinking

why is BitcoinTalk (their staff) started to give negative trust to ICO's which dont want to pay racketeering?

Also one of my friends tried to register - and they got a message that their IP is dangerous, and they should send BitcoinTalk some BTC to let them post?

https://i.imgur.com/D8RG6Lr.jpg

Why is BitcoinTalk supporting Cloudbet - which has 20+ unresolved scam accusations here?

Why are Hhampuz and suchmoon trying to silence users by giving them red trust?

Huh?


No sane escrow would touch PayPal. The fact that you keep repeating this makes you a scammer.


Not sure what this has to do with me. I'm not "staff".


Your "friend" has a banned account or is using a VPN/Tor exit node that a banned user has used.


I would only attempt to silence you if you step on my property and force me to stand my ground. My trust rating doesn't prevent you from speaking.

So Bitify is no sane escrow?

https://i.imgur.com/5BiuSNm.jpg

https://bitify.com/bitify-escrow-service/ (https://bitify.com/bitify-escrow-service/)

LOL

u r funny, i give u that




Really, how old r u?

Just read what u wrote...again and again.




So if he pays (racketeering), his IP will be magically unbanned?  :D






you can send any larger amount, though you will not be refunded the difference

OMG, cant stop laughing

so, Im the scammer, right?

Of course it's bullshit. PayPal transactions can be reversed within 180 days. Credit card chargebacks can happen within a similar timeframe.


No, but your new account will be allowed to proceed. It's a measure against serial offenders.

This has nothing to with me though, so stay focused on your primary objective here.

Well you don't have a clue obviously about Paypal.

Transaction will be (would be) sent from Paypal balance (which i can screenshot - but hey wtf, its like im convicted for murder or something, i have to prooof everything, even to  people not at all interested in doing the transaction with me - for what reason - thought police?), not from cc or bank account - so if you had a clue, you would know that this is not reversible.


OMG i cant choose which is it - a total lie or a total bullshit


It is said once a member pay a fee, he will be whitelisted.

So, no matter how serious offender you are, you will be welcomed again on Bitcointalk, once u payed

https://i.imgur.com/A1n5Inv.jpg


BTW, never heard of anybody being banned here.

I know PayPal quite well, done a lot of business with it. Your screenshot is meaningless, as is your escrow. Again, the fact that you're still blatantly lying about this extremely risky transaction makes you a scammer.


https://bitcointalk.org/modlog.php

Nope, you dont have a clue.

Dont be full of yourself.

Even fuckin Paypal employee said what Im saying.

So, im not lying, you are just delusional and power-drunk.

And Im glad that every sane person now can see that.

I rest my case.

It doesn't matter what you're saying. Your counterparty has no way to ensure that no dispute or chargeback will be filed by you. Also there are other scenarios where the counterparty can be at risk, such as your account being suspended for policy violations, which is likely to happen if you use it to buy bitcoins.

Eureca!

Thats why I dont buy bitcoin directly from a Paypal account. It is known that Paypal can limit your account when you PURCHASE crypto with it.

The payment is sent as Family and friends - which is  considered as a gift (sending money TO FAMILY AND FRIENDS) , not a purchase.

See, you dont have a clue.


Oh, you are so considered about my (imaginary) counterparty, you are such a sweetheart (read, hypocrite).

It's still a violation of PayPal's Acceptable Use Policy and on top of that you're violating PayPal's User Agreement, which does not allow the use of the Friends and Family option for goods and services.

Care to dig your hole a little deeper? I hope we end up in Australia, always wanted to visit.

Stop trying.

Going to bed.

No audience to clap u for that fake humor.

Lol

At least you are laughing, the humor is effective.

Oh anyway,
https://media.giphy.com/media/1236TCtX5dsGEo/giphy.gif
*clap

What the fuck first statement has to do with second?

Who is asking money from tagged exposed scammers and do you have proof of this statement?

Which staff member? Troll of.

eat a (bag of) dick(s) ass-kisser

either you are incredibly stupid or you are a complete idiot

lol

digaran was  ::)