Bitcoin Forum

Unknown Company Background

Black Arrow first announced they are joining the mining hardware business in September 2013. It is a traceable by a post they made to bitcointalk.com forum and some press release which still can be found on the Internet. However, it offers no clue as what business it was dealing with before getting into mining hardware manufacturing.

The rationale is that if a company were to enter the mining hardware business, it must have been the computer hardware business for many years or that its founders were involved in another company and that information is publicly disclosed. For the case of Black Arrow, it is like the company popped up from nowhere. This leaves a lot of questions: If Black Arrow were in the hardware business, or it is a subsidiary spring-off, then what hardware were they manufacturing? What was the names of their affiliated companies? What was the brands of their other products? What is the size of their factory? How did they acture or build their hardware and factor or business? What was the company’s financial performance or turnover/profits?

Unknown Company Directors

The names of the directors are completely unknown. All staff seems to use username/nicknames on forums and email replies (with a first name and just a last name abbreviation). They cannot be found on any social networks, such as LinkedIn.

So the questions are: who are these people? Where (ie. what country/city) do they live? How many of them?

Almost complete lack of publicity

The only publicity Black Arrow has is some basic forms of press release and posting to [Suspicious link removed]. They are never featured nor reported in any magazines or newspapers. They have never appeared at any Bitcoin trade shows or conferences.

Web site located in Germany

Black Arrow is a Hong Kong based company and claims to have a factory in Shenzhen in mainland China. However, their website is located in Germany. Why would these guys who can own an office in Hong Kong and a factory in mainland China locate their website in Germany?

A host lookup on blackarrowsoftware.com (and its DNS nameservers) points to IP address of 91.205.173.3.

A host lookup of its forum site, ecointalk.net, reveals the IP address at 185.2.102.115.

Both belongs to hosting provider called “Contabo GmbH” in Germany. Their website is http://contabo.com. On examination, it is a very cheap VPS and dedicated servers / co-location provider; its prices are much cheaper than the general competition.

Web site in Chinese

Black Arrow claims to own a factory in Shenzhen (in the mainland China) and thus have a additional language on their website in Chinese. However, a switch to the Chinese language reveals that the translation is not completely done. A lot of the menu items (whether logged in or out) remains untranslated in English.  Clearly, this is obvious that Black Arrow is not targeting the Chinese market, but focuses mainly on the English market. Why?

So, this leaves many questions: why would a company based in China and consumers in China being extremely crazy about Bitcoin yet leave out its own Chinese market? Why are they targeting only the English speaking world?

Wierd Staff Response Hours

We got an email on January 31 way past midnight (reference to local time in China) that they cannot deliver by end of February. First of all, that day is Chinese New Year. It is a holiday season equivalent to Christmas/New Year in the western world. People are eager to return home for reunion with their families and simply not in the mood to work. This is especially so for factory worker but also applies to company managers/executives. So the question is why would the staff/manager/executive would work till that late on a holiday season to send us a notification mail?

Another matter is the the response time to our emails and inquiries are simply irregular of working hour in China. If they operate a factory, they would have many staff reporting to work in regular hours. The managers/executives, too, would be expected to work the same hours. Why did they sometimes reply to our mails in the middle of the night (in China local time) or very early mornings?

Registered Hong Kong Company and a Bank Account

Black Arrow Limited is a real company incorporated in Hong Kong. A search on Google using the terms "hong kong shelf company with bank account” return results of many offshore incorporation services firms offering such services. These are pre-registered firms with pre-opened bank accounts. Sure, most would require notarized documents from clients in order to purchase them. However, there is a possibility that there could be a very few who would just sell it without asking for any ID. In other words, once they take control of the company and its bank account, they can freely withdraw money from ATMs. Therefore, by offering wire transfer as a payment, ie. proof of having a legitimate bank account, actually means nothing in terms of the legitimacy of the business.

A search on their address “Room 1701, 17/F, Henan Building, No. 90-92 Jaffe Road
Wanchai, N/A” on Google reveals many other companies. So, this seems that it is a virtual address, shared office or mail redirection service. In other words, it is unlikely they have their own premises (functioning as a sales office) within Hong Kong with a proper signboard.

As for the factory location in Shenzhen, China, we do not have any verification of its existence or some photos.

Still, only computer generated graphics

Black Arrow has used graphics softwares to many beautiful images of their mining machines. It is now already February and why don’t they have any real photos of their products?

Technical Documents

They have produced very technical documents of the mining machines. Well, I think one of their scamming artist team members must be an enginner. Since they are scamming millions of dollars, it is easy to partner with a real engineer and devote full time to write those documents.

Some videos uploaded to YouTube

They uploaded some videos of the factory manufacturing process. However, those does not show the factory belong to them. They can simply ask a friend (or one of the scheming partner) to take some video (whether opening or secretly) of what’s happening inside a factory - any factory. So, therefore, those videos uploaded to YouTube means nothing.

The Scam Operation is Very Real

Bitcoin mining is a pre-order and pre-pay market. So, people pay and wait. While waiting, people don’t know they are scammers but expect to get their machines.

Some will ask for refunds for whatsoever reasons. They will refund to reduce the number of public complaints. Their strategy is that they will offer refunds as long as the new sales amount is greater than the refunds being claimed.

They started their scam business back in September, and “promised” to deliver in February. So, they are now trying to “extend” the period of wait until May. When May comes, most probably they will come up with another reason for yet another delay. Eventually, they will have nothing to deliver and their website will disapear.

If I am wrong…

Well, if I am wrong, I’ll be happy to order many mining machines from them. They have great specs, eg. reasonable price per GH/s and great electricity consumption

If I am right…

Since they have a real incorporated company in Hong Kong with a bank account, it is possible ot trace the directors or the incorporating agent or secretary. It is possible to make it into a criminal pursuit by law enforcement. However, we don’t expect them to be living in Hong Kong, but need to chase them down internationally. They should have left their fingerprints and would definitely be traceable.

Has delivered bitcoin fpgas

Has delivered bitfury asics

Has contract with verisilicon


Literally every one of your questions has been answered before. Plase do a little research before creating a ridiculously long and uninformed post..

Yeah their company seems a bit sketchy but they are legit.

To who? Where is the proof? I did saw some guys posting they received items delivered from Black Arrow, but they could be in cahoots with the scammers.

Just you saying "they are legit", without caring to debunk any accusation, nor providing any proof?

Seriously?
Is this the best you can do?

Its just not worth the time. He can do the research himself.  Also see my OP

The only thing I can find with "verisilicon" is a quote from their own website.

Are they any verified proof from the company called "verisilicon"?

If Black Arrow is a scam operation, it is a well-coordinated, full-time and multiple multiple members operation. They are defrauding millions of dollars during a long-run (since September till they cannot hold it any more when they will just disappear) operation. They even have people with well-qualified engineering background to write those technical documents.

Delivered fpgas to many people.

Still delivering bitfury boards.

Contract with verisilicon was confirmed. So unless a large, established semiconductor company is in on the scam it doesn't make sense.

Reason for no pics is because case designs are not 100% complete as chips have not even begun tapeout. There are a bunch of pics of the factory with a bunch of the bitfury asics they sell.

private company =/= scam

the OP has gone headlong into a conspiracy theory without searching the forums first. I admit, I was dubious about black arrow in the first instance, but there is more evidence to say they are legit, than not.

I'll be putting in an order with them in the future. i'm sure as a rig builder, they will be around for a long while to come.

Someone (an angry customer) emailed verisilicon sales and they confirmed.

Why would a company go through all the effort to design fpgas, design boards/controllers for bitfury miners, and fake a contract with a large semiconductor company just to create a very convincing scam? If they can do all that they might as well just make the chips since they would definitely have the technical know how.

I cannot find any credible proof the contract with verisilicon, except for a press release by them as well as in their website. There's not statement or mentioning form verisilicon.

verisilicon seems to be a Chinese company. Generally, if English are not their native langauge, they just hire a website company to translate their website. Their staff neither read English news at all nor search/surf in English. (I know this because I work in Asia, with people who would just ignore the entire English speaking news.) If Black Arrow were a scam, the guys would probably know the people at verisilicon and take advantage of this. So, they posted some news about verisilicon knowing they won't be informed.


I search this forum but cannot find this history record. How did you know about this matter?

OK. I'm thinking of sending a email to verisilicon. What do you think?


Yes, I did considered they delivered some products being delivered by them. First, they are just too few of them (only a couple could be found on Google), so the "customers" who received them could be their own people. Second, we cannot verify they are legitimate products, ie. they can take some boards from the market and show it.

This scam operation is millions of dollars. All they have done, even if they have 20 scammers all working along and all those fake deliveries, do not even cost a couple tens of thousands of dollars.

How would scammers probably know someone working at verisilicon? Makes absolutely no sense.

Verisilicon is a huge company. They have offices around the world not only in china. You can find the proof in an email in the black arrow thread a few pages back. If you don't believe me or the guy who emailed them, please email them yourself (be sure to contact chinese branch)

No they cannot just take some boards from the market. How would they get by selling another companies boards as their own?

Yes, you are wrong.
Apparently you haven't read carefully even this one thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=294197 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=294197) from the beginning.

Lol

Search for the topics yourself and see other posts.
Is this post the best YOU can do? Seriously?

http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/index.php?dispatch=news.list&page=2&sl=en


I hope Visa doesn't find out that I've been accepting pre-order payments for barn wood that I've yet to procure due to not having what's been order on-hand, otherwise I may have to only accept cash or bitcoins, knowing that checks are way too risky.

Also, from the same source dated 30 Sep 2013:


I'm pretty sure that the reseller Alex(?) is speaking of is Matt Carson a.k.a. bobsag3, formally of Missouri, but recently moved his plants and hosted miners and hookah to his massive warehouse (his words) in Denver on January 1, 2014, where growing and smoking weed is legal, after paying only the initial September rent, forget to pay October, November and December.

Also, how does a company that's been in business for so long not know about PayPal's terms, claiming to had to have them expressed to them from a hash-head in Missouri?

Now, my favorite BA quotes, juxtaposed to show contrast.



For not being an investment service, they sure the hell aren't going outta their way to distant themselves from such.

BTW, the random jobless individual they're referring to and opted to not waste their time on is me.

The following is a post of mine that was deleted by Black Arrow, of which was quoted by a couple other bitcoiners, of which they, too, have been deleted, but I did post it elsewhere during the same timeframe.

Hardware supplier or investment service? You decide.



http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/index.php?dispatch=news.list&page=2&sl=en

I have purchased Xilinx Spartan 6 based FPGAs from them around eight or nine months ago.  Was going to purchase a Prospero at one point but decided to go with a different vendor.  Have no qualms with this company, even purchased a gen1 avalon controller from them.

From the desk of Bobsag3, a.k.a. Matt Carson, Black Arrow's first and #1 reseller for their miners.


Timeline of Matt Carson's datacenter locations. Originally posted in Black Arrow's self-moderated thread, but quickly deleted for being...wait for it..off-topic (and that I was trolling, so they claim). Black Arrow has proof that Matt Carson can NOT be trusted, but continue to use him as their official reseller in the US. If I were to use Tom Williams, of mybitcoin.com, as my official reseller for some product, stating that people change, would I be able to sell many product, Alex Sovu, of cardreaderfactory.com? Me, the asshole, no think so, yet...

BUILDING #1: Purchased the building, awaiting infrastructure.



BUILDING #2: Moving to a better facility here (still in Missouri) located 90 miles away.




Here we are, on November 18th, and Matt still has his datacenter in Missouri at the second facility:




November 26th, edited on the 28th, Matt Carson is still in Missouri at the second facility: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=347732.msg3723600#msg3723600


And still upgrading his second facility:


On December 12, 2013, fresh back from China, Matt Carson posted the following... BTW, still located in Missiouri:


On December 13, Matt Carson hired additional staff to work at his Missouri-based datacenter, to date not mentioning Denver even once.


Four hours later, Matt mentions for the first the move to Denver, right after somebody ask about local pickup since he lives in KC. Did his new hires move to Denver with him?


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=288012


BUILDING #3:

Somewhere in Colorado, in some warehouse with 16-18 foot ceilings, ideally well-suited for bitcoin miners that love fiberglass dust sourced from the exposed insulation in the ceilings and walls, blown free from the constantly moving vortex of air due to the industrial-sized air conditioning unit(s). Whatever you do, don't open up that massive overhead door that's probably not well-sealed, otherwise you'll really have the dust a flying.

This has been the third time you're on record in stating that you only moved once. Care to try for a forth time?

~TMIBTCITW

we can´t stop here! this is bat land.

I bet someone starts posting in this thread with big bold text in bright colors.

your time machine landed you on the wrong side, i'm sure that post should have been made earlier.

which means i didn't lose the bet we were about to make.

:p

http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/index.php?dispatch=news.list&page=2&sl=en


The unedited quote above is not only located on BA's website, but was used as their official press release. Emphasis on what the obvious errors are.

If written correctly, the following:

"The latest Black Arrow’s ASIC is a contender for making the largest chip on the market. Their engineers are confident that their design ensures highest reliability with a very low risk and lowest power consumption. When these ASICs are combined to work together, they'll perform better than their competition at a lower cost."

It'll still read like a shit-for-brains penned it, but at least it would have been grammatically correct.

dang. dratted disclaimers.

PG : How does DZ and Thomas fit into all of this? Since they seem to be the 3 amigos.

I have seen those messages.

My friends and I have ordered from Black Arrow. Just like you guys, we once were firm believers that Black Arrow were a legitimate company.

After receiving that mail that we're not getting our machines by Feb. 24 *and* the fact that our refunds refunds and enquires are being ignored, caused us to re-examine this company. We found that all those evidence (mentioned in this forum and this particular thread) are really too superficial and insufficient. Compare that to companies like KncMiner, HashFast, ButterFly Labs and Cointerra, they have enough publicity (good and bad) in newspapers and magazines, their directors are known and their staff have appeared in conferences and trade shows. Black Arrow has none of that. Their business operations are too secretive (unknown directors, reporters/journalists not reporting on them (why?), lack of sufficient and thorough evidence (size of factory, photos, etc.).

If Black Arrow is a scam, they can disappear easily after 1 or 2 more "acts". The current "act" is the delaying our machines to May. Come May, and I expect them to put up their final "act" and delay again. By June or July, they will be getting more refund requests then new sales. At that time, they will eventually disappear.

If Black Arrow is a legitimate company, they are probabaly working very hard to manufacture our machines. Something can still go wrong. If they cannot produce our machines, they can still conveniently disappear because of the "secretive" nature of the business (ie. we really don't know what are the names of the directors).

If you've ordered in September/October, promised to be delivered by end of February, but the fact that it is isn't and a re-examination of all the facts of about this company should be a WAKE UP CALL. Your money is probably gone.

Delays =scam?

You should probably not be preordering hardware.

Blackarrow has more factory photos than most companies despite being a private company. And tapeout begins in 4 days.

Seriously please do a little more research. Most of the questions/conspiracy theories in your 20 paragraphs can easily be answered by reading blackarrows post history/ecointalk/google.


Why are you so determined to prove its a scam?

Funny you should ask, for that's why I'm back.

Somebody, don't know who  ::), once said...


...so I did.

DyslexicZombei: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=288150.msg3089365#msg3089365


http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/wpymo/as_a_40_yr_old_gamer_this_still_makes_me_happy_to/c5flcvc


Will somebody do the math for me so that I don't make a mistake before I continue on this crusade of proving that something's amiss? Surely, Mr. DZ didn't forget how old he is or err in how many years of IT and advanced sales experience he has under his belt, did he? If he did do the latter, then he continued the practice in a myriad other posts.

Then again, I'm just a broke asshole living in my dead mother's van down by the up-the-creek-sans-a-paddle, now getting a fresh cup of coffee to return to see who did the math for me.

Thank you in advance,

~Bruno Kucinskas (no need to not use my real name)

PS: Apologies for the large colored font, but it makes my dick hard.

WTF! Still no answer? Ah, I see! It was a word problem, thus making it that much more difficult, eh, Darin? Allow me to express it as an equation: 40 - 30 = ___.

Extra credit awarded if you show your work. And, no cheating! If you cheat now in life, who knows what you'll grow up to become. Probably a vetter, vetting the first person who comes along tootin' a hookah. AND I AIN'T JUST A SAYIN'!

EXTRA, EXTRA credit given if you can name the person who said the following:

The stalker and tin hat foil supplies are off the charts!  :D  :o  ::)

FYI: Back in ye olde days, no one cared if your 10 year old kid unofficially helped out around the shop.

At that time I said I had 30 years of IT and advanced sales experience. True and True. My father owned a shop on Kauai that was modestly successful for over 10 years and as a kid growing up around the shop, I was selling to and teaching adults some complex stuff which I won't discuss because you're such a uber shtalker without a life, I suppose.

My first computer used was a TRS-80 and my first home PC was a C-64. Yes, I'm what the kids consider "old", and yes I do have 30 some years of IT and sales experience, but thanks for asking. Any other questions about my IT bonafides or sales background?

As for BA: the DZMC has NO ties to Black Arrow except via bobsag3's US reseller relationship which provided us one of our 24 fundraising rounds for Prosperos and 4 rounds of prototype Prosperos (albeit with Bitfury 55nm chips) in Rounds 9-12 which ended up all being eventually replaced by ASICs from other mfgs. because there were some insurmountable problems that kept leading to failed equipment with this limited run, bleeding edge Bullet Run last fall.

FWIW, customer's had been receiving BA prototype hashrate for months in R9-12, and recently went thru a successful buyout and closeout. Also, we're in the process of refunding everyone that wants a refund that bought Prosperos via our Round 17 GB. Many folks have already received their refunds.

I tested as a genius as a kid FWIW on the Stanford-Binet scale. I don't put much stock in high IQ correlating to success in life, but I did qualify for Mensa as a kid.

Not much pride about it, more like an observation of one's height or shoe size.

Was the Bullet run truly "BA Prototype" devices or just Bitfury board clones?. Has anyone seen a close up photo of these things other then Bob?

Got a bunch of pics from those 4 round on my Pics site in my link. It was about 3.3 GH/s worth of hardware but it was a struggle to keep up that minimum HR.

DyslexicZombei's first ever public comment pertaining to Bitcoin was on Thu Jul 18 22:53:45 2013 UTC: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1ilah4/where_should_my_asic_investment_go_to/cb5kcjb

Yes.

So? I'm relatively new to crypto but an oldtimer at IT, which crypto falls under.

Ask lots of folks here: I've been working my ass off for the benefit of others without anything or much in return.

I've vetted for free and helped get started many of my own competitors but I guess that's still scammy behavior if you're a creepy shtalker troll without a life. You like reading thru all my old Reddit posts trying to dig up dirt? What no mention of my WW2 veteran grandpa who fought Nazis or how I tried to give away a great paying tech job to other surfers at a national lab in the middle of a recession?

Why not dig thru my surfermag posts as KauaiDKer while you're at it? Lots of surfers (including a few legends) know me there when I was trying to give away said job. Maybe you could pretend to be a cool surfer dood and infiltrate the tribe to get them to give up personal info.

Hmm, how apropro that I recently came across this article: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/climate_desk/2014/02/internet_troll_personality_study_machiavellianism_narcissism_psychopathy.html

How many boxes do you check off on this "personality quiz" PG?  :D  ;D

DZ in all reality PG is pointing out stuff that many people think. Maybe they don't want to ruffle feathers or cause a rift etc. He/She has no problem getting in your face and throwing out a bunch of stuff and sees what stick. I don't know you, I don't know them, some / much / All / none of this could be true/false. But as an investor in products piece of mind knowing everything is legit helps. There comes a point in time where it just hit that spot where it could be just a interesting coincidence ya know?

Look at the Group buy forums today.. its freaking SAD.. SCAM after SCAMMER after SCUMBAG Scammer for a lack of a better term .. FUCKING people out of thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars on these Avalon 2 clones. Then.. they just create OR BUY another forum account and start a new con.

For somebody who claims to have a well-paying job there in Hawaii, you sure the hell keep repeating about how you do shit for free around here. Would you like to compare the hours you've put in for free vs. my hours I've put in for free weeding (no pun intended) out those that shouldn't have been vetted?

I notice that you keep backing that Matt Carson, the first person you've vetted. Would you be so kind as to explain to us how somebody claiming to be of MENSA stature, somehow passes Matt Carson with flying colors? Likewise, I couldn't help but notice the myriad of grammatical errors is your prose, something not really expected from a near genius. Perhaps, the quality of certain plants grown in Hawaii may have something to do with that, so I'll give you a pass in that regard.

I love how you use me stalking you, now as an excuse to not give your name. It still fuckin' amazes me how you joined this forum and two short weeks later you're the vetting guru. But, what's really amazing is the people you've vetted. Yet, with all your intelligence, you continue to claim that I'm a broke fuck wasting my life away on this here laptop, living in my dead mother's van down by the up-the-creek-sans-a-paddle.

Wanta make me happy? Follow through with the same threat you made to eve and sue my ass for libel and defamation, for I'm stating right here, right now that you can't be trusted. I'm pretty sure I'll never see such a suit, for that'll mean your real name will be on the document.

Game on, magic surfer boy!

~Bruno Kucinskas

Nope, delays DOES NOT mean scam. A legitimate delay caused by lack of parts or manufacturing problems is NOT a scam. However, the delay by Black Arrow could be just a decoy to extend the scam period before they eventually disappear.

Those factory photos could be fake. Assuming you live in China or have connections to someone who does, you can easily take those pictures or film the videos. It cannot prove that those factories belong to them. Tapeout begins in 4 days. What proof? Or it is just a decoy to extend their scam.


I'm not determined to prove it is a scam. In my original post to this thread, I said "most likely" and even said "if I am wrong...". I'm doing this because, like all you guys, I was fully convinced it was a legitimate company. The email sent from Black Arrow dated January 31 serves to be a wake-up call. ALL THE EVIDENCE we once believed (which is why I ordered, and even advised my friends to do so) needs to be re-examined. We need NEW EVIDENCE. We need to have solid prove of their manufacturing process. We need to know who are the directors, etc.

Most of Black Arrow activities are in this forum and their own ecointalk.net forum. They have some press release here and there. Why are their marketing activities so limited? Why are reporters/journalist reporting or featuring them in news articles.  You cannot find any reports about them within CoinDesk.com, WSJ, BusinessWeek, BloomBerg, Financial Times. (You can find Butterfly Labs, Cointerra, HashFash, KncMiner being reported.)

We probabaly need to look at Black Arrow from a fresh perspective. We wanted the machines to be Black Arrow. We wanted Black Arrow to be legit. We now have to ask ourselves: are all those evidence credible? Have you actually compared the credibility of other companies vs. Black Arrow. If Black Arrow were legit, then why are all those evidence "on the edge", flaky and can be challenged. For example, you said about all those factory photos/videos, re-look again at them and don't you think they can ask any friend who works in a factory as a manager to take them? Yes, they wrote a lot of technical documents. However, if you think about it, if they are pulling off such a massive scam operation, they can have real enginners as part of their team.

All those evidence about Black Arrow were believable last year, or until January 31 :-) At this moment you have to ask yourself and re-examine each and all of the evidence. There's nothing really credible.

Repeat:
Unknown company directors.
No journalist/reporters have ever featured them.
Confined marketing activities only to this forum and their own forum (ecointalk.net).
Since China banned depositing of Bitcoin, the local people have since searching ways to mine Bitcoin. It is a hot market within China. Why aren't they targeting their Chinese domestic market? (If you switch to Chinese on their website, you'll find many parts remain untranslated. Just click through links.) I don't think Black Arrow is doing any marketing activities to sell within mainland China. Why?

One more thing... this company is so secretive and even if they are not a scam but honestly and legitimately trying to manufacture mining machines, they can disappear easily if they fail (due to technical problems) to deliver the machines. I'm scared.

http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1i3s2j/my_grandfather_lived_in_the_arctic_for_several/cb11k0g


http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/wx5ix/what_things_do_people_have_in_other_countries/c5hc0fd


I is not a MENSA, but if I didith my maths wright, me say you born about 1975. Myself, March 4, 1960. I've had the pleasure of being in the homes of Barbara Mandell (both homes, north of Nashville in burbs), Frank Beard (ZZ Top), President George Herbert Walker Bush (Houston), among many other notables. Not too bad for a useless broke dude whomith ain't a MENSA. Feel free to vett my source if I entrusted you with Greta Van Susteren's personal phone number. Then again, she probably gives it to every Tom, Dick and Harry she meets, somewhat the way you vett fellow bitcoiners to make this a safer community.

jimmothy, honestly, how much worth of mining hardware have you order from Black Arrow?

If you've spent a lot of money on them, you want to believe what you want to believe. It's human psychology. It's understandable. Perhaps it's time to re-think and re-examine all the facts we know about Black Arrow. If you don't want to do it now. Fine. Then do it at the end of April. At that time we'll see what excuse (ie. manufacturing delays,e tc.) Black Arrow has to extend their scam.

Also, I've been following this thread: [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=294197] on Black Arrow. Sadly, this is the main publicity Black Arrow has, in addition to their own forum [ecointalk.net]. They don't have any other major marketing activities elsewhere (no trade show attendance, not featured in magazines/newspapers, etc)

So are you saying that the people at Verisilicon - who personally confirmed tapeout to me directly - are in on this scam?
-____-

Glad that you appeared. Since "jimmothy" mentioned someone emailed Verisilicon, I've been searching for this piece of evidence.

Could you please show us (again, if you had already done so, sorry) the details of the correspondence with Verisilicon? I'd like to examine it (in details) in a fair manner.

And when will the he/she when referring to me going to end? (......dog, you're going to love this): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFHbXSnNkXU#t=4m52s

(FULL) Breast Cancer Foundation Plea to Accept Bitcoin Donations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FFe_42TpiY

And why: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfTOVdZvxiU

Start here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=294197.msg5123598#msg5123598

and keep reading til I mentioned that it's been put to rest.

The only way left that it could be a scam would be if they make the miners and keep them for themselves instead of shipping them. In which case, we'll burn bobsag3 at the stake for not getting us our miners lol.

And that's not very likely considering it would be more profitable to have a good reputation and sell more miners in the future rather than invest all this time and energy into such an elaborate "scam".

The arguments you are making against BA are embarrasing if anything at all.

Why not wait 4 days and see if tapeout has begun? (Confirmed by verisilicon)

Why attempt to create FUD?

Seriously Its obvious you are putting lots of effort trying to prove its a scam but your arguments are incredibly weak. BA cannot simply disappear because they have a company bank account/contracts with 3rd parties/physical location some have visited.

Who honestly believes being featured in magazines/crappy blogs has anything to do with the legitimacy of a company. Take a look at hashfast and please report back.


I think he is. That or you are in on the scam (maybe I am as well?)

Why go through the effort to make your own chips? With nre costs at a few million dollars it would make mote sense to instead go with asicminer chips or something if it was a scam.

I no longer think so. You see, Black Arrow and Verisilicon are partners in this venture. Verisilicon is also the co-designing for Bitmine's chip, along with Synapse and Innosilicon. Ergo, it's to their best interest to...

Don't you find it amazing that it took three IT entities to develop Bitmine's chip, but Virisilicon was able to accomplish basically the same task on their own for Black Arrow's Minion? It wouldn't surprise me to see Virisilicon consume the ASIC mining chip market with fireballs from their eyes, and bolts of lightning from their arse after accomplishing that feat.

I stand corrected! I forgot all about Hookah Man visiting the Chinese plant (no pun intended).

Do you really think hookah man can just disappear? I literally just bought a graphics card shipped via ups so I think he would definitely be leaving a paper trail behind. I think its nearly impossible they commit multimillion dollar fraud while accepting bank transfers.

I have to admit, you got me on that one, for I honestly can't think off the top of head of a single entity that has ever committed fraud when they, in fact, accepted funds via a bank transfer. Has anybody here heard of such happening, otherwise I may have to concede my position? I know it's a long shot, but please try. Perhaps, together, we could hunt at least one down via Google. Or will we be wasting our time?

this.  :D

Question: Shouldn't the registration dates of those championing Black Arrow be more seasoned than those shown above, oppose to being over three months and beyond their junior?

goozman96, I've read the matter regarding the correspondence with VeriSilicon. It is not fully convincing.

First, the lady in the US office said they would never release any information regarding their contract with their clients. Then, why did the China-counterpart released the information?

Secondly, let's assume that all the people from VeriSilicon (Robert, Zheng, etc.) are real, they only revealed to you there is indeed a client called Black Arrow. They did not reveal the size of the contract. If Black Arrow is indeed pulling off a massive scam, they can do a real contract with a reputable company (ie. VeriSilicon) and order/purchase a small amount.

Repeat (posted earlier in the beginning):
Black Arrow Limited is a real company incorporated in Hong Kong. A search on Google using the terms "hong kong shelf company with bank account” return results of many offshore incorporation services firms offering such services. These are pre-registered firms with pre-opened bank accounts. Sure, most would require notarized documents from clients in order to purchase them. However, there is a possibility that there could be a very few who would just sell it without asking for any ID. In other words, once they take control of the company and its bank account, they can freely withdraw money from ATMs. Therefore, by offering wire transfer as a payment, ie. proof of having a legitimate bank account, actually means nothing in terms of the legitimacy of the business.

Additional explanation:
The fraudsters can purchase a Hong Kong shelf company with a pre-opened bank account under a nominee director assigned by the incorporating agent. At this moment, all ATM cards, login credentials are passed to the fraudsters. Once they purchase of the company is completed, the can fully own and operate the bank account, while still possibly still be in the name of the nominee director. Then, the money can be withdrawn using ATM cards or can be laundered. It can be millions and as long as the bank think it is legally obtained, it won't stop them.

I'm not saying that Black Arrow is absolutely a scam. I'm saying that they can be a scam. They are simply not transparent enough in their business operations.

OK. Let's 4 more days for their tapeout and see what new evidence they can supplement to convince us.

You simply don't understand how this works. You cannot "order a small amount". You pay millions of dollars to tapeout a chip and regardless if you make 1 chip or 100000. NRE is like 90% the total cost.

And to answer your first question it is probably because he tried contacting an american receptionist instead contacting someone from the chinese department. You can email them if you don't believe goozman.

Or, hell, go visit their office since they offered.

I order X1 from Blackarrow ,but get wire transfer Bank from other company .The Bank's Account is name Destino Limited in UK not same Blackarrow (HSBC from Hongkong) .The support said  HSBC Bank have a problem to use Destino around 2-3 weeks.
He gave unreliable. I withhold my order from him Until the first batch to ship.

although HSBC are a bunch of c**ts, that's worrying;

http://companycheck.co.uk/company/04512485 (http://companycheck.co.uk/company/04512485)

Is there room at this table for one more to play?

http://www.linkedin.com/company/destino-ltd-

Perhaps, I played the above hand incorrectly. Next deal.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:y-l6hJkGr3wJ:https://www.duedil.com/company/08431396/destino-limited+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


http://www.ukbizdata.com/destino-limited/biz/08431396/


http://reading.cylex-uk.co.uk/company/bbyte-ltd-20181422.html


BTW, don't bother going to that address because Matt Carson went to the UK and reported back that they've moved to a London address before he came back to the States and moved his plant (pun intended) from the Show Me State to the Grow Me State. (sometimes, you just can't make this shit up)

To recap, Black Arrow partnered up with Virisilicon to produce the Minion, and has an Alex Sovu (BerK) as a trusted employee (only), but opts to use Alex's bank account to accept payments via bank wires. And to think I had doubts about this viable entity. My bad!

i tend to try not go any further south than carlisle, unless i get paid to.

http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/destino


http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/director/9859815/iulia-ixari

http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/find?q=companies&location=RG1+4NY


http://www.linkedin.com/in/cristinaixari


The following is one of the ~200 posts I've had deleted from Black Arrow's thread:

My sleuthing (s)kills are beyond reproach, and I should be charging for my services.

https://i.imgur.com/T25JI0h.gif

i'm again, convinced.. Black Arrow customers are likely never to see any miners, or their funds returned   >:(

To date, the ONLY thing I've found legitimate pertaining to Black Arrow is that Global Foundries exist, and that Virisilicon received investment capital from Lehman Brothers (http://www.vcgate-venture-capital-investors.com/VeriSilicon-Holdings-Co-Ltd-Secures-20-Million-in-Series-D-Financing.htm).

It had everything to do with that thread before whoever is behind Black Arrow deleted what I was trying to show.

First, we have...


Yet, one day later the following was penned:


The reason given for the post being deleted on September 14, 2013, 08:25:04 PM by blackarrow is that he posted off-topic, thus wanted to correct his error.

But, by the magic (I love that word) of being quoted, I present to you...


Now, you want to see something really amazing?

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?331715-8000GBP-retained-by-Bank-of-Scotland&p=3659504&viewfull=1#post3659504


Yew replies on 20th August 2012 15:42.

Yew doesn't reply again till 29th July 2013 20:05 with the following: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?331715-8000GBP-retained-by-Bank-of-Scotland&p=4300356&viewfull=1#post4300356


Then his last post on the very same day: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?331715-8000GBP-retained-by-Bank-of-Scotland&p=4300499&viewfull=1#post4300499


You see it? Thought so.

Which begs the question, why would a person living in the UK for an extended period of time post using GBP throughout the entire ordeal then, for the first time, opt for $8K at the end?

Especially when 8000 British Pound Sterling equals 13370.40 US Dollar.

To be clear, Black Arrow is Yew and is located in the UK.

 

your investigation skills trump heraldo rivera's

Can you help locate jimmy Hoffa. And Al Capone vault

Speaking of Al Capone, you wouldn't believe where I used to go fishing yearly with my dead Daddy-O.

http://www.cleavelin.net/archives001/Island2.jpg

The above pic was gleaned off the internet, but I can easily provide pics from our outings to verify the above, or call http://www.pinepointlodge.net/ and speak with Wayne-O. Boy, would I love to purchase that resort. Anybody interested in a Group Buy? (kinda serious)

Time shares. Are you vetted?

Not yet, but I submitted all my documents to Dank, Atlas and Tom Williams. Soon, I'll be the first to be triple-vetted on this here forum.

You think that's funny? Get a load of this:


You want to know what's even more fuckin' funnier? Matt Carson didn't do a single fuckin' impressive upgrade to his professional colocation hosting facility before he failed to make October, November and December lease payments, then packed up his hookah (and some miners) and headed to Colorado on the day smoking and growing weed became legal in that state.

Fuckin' hysterical! Sadly, Black Arrow has proof of all this but keeps their number one reseller in place to...wait for it...continue sales.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm in the middle of eating a pizza. (seriously)

He's the #1 seller because somehow he has exclusive rights to run a group buy. Others started them and were quickly hit with that shit policy

They made it where everything in N.A. had to pretty much run thru Bob

Matt Carson was double vetted by John K. and DyslexicZombei, both of Hawaii. BTW, I'm one of the few that knows JK's real name.

I'm willing to bet that neither DyslexicZombei nor Matt Carson can provide receipts for said upgrades. Worse still, I know as a fact that a permit was never pulled for 939 Parkwood Ln (or Dr.) there in Rolla, MO, for one was surely needed when the three-phase electric power system was installed, unless Mr. I-smoke-too-much did it on his own.

Surely, it was done, for I believe DZ paid MC for such, taxing my memory of what I'll read on blockchain.info. I know I've read that DZ has tipped JK for acting as escrow, in spite of him sticking it up our asses in stating he's been doing shit for free.

Hey motherfucker MENSA dude! I'm the one doing shit for free, and have never bitched about it nor asked or accepted one satoshi for me doing such. Stick that in your Hawaiian hookah and smoke it.

Note to self: Never post after eating an entire 16" pizza at one setting, but damn it was fuckin' delicious.

Whats up with your obsession with bobsags smoking? People smoke.

I wouldn't care if he was smoking meth as long as he provides a good service and does what he says.

the dz co op has always been good to me and i invested around 7 btc or so . If weed is legal than why is it such a big deal for you. I would trust him even more if he had a legal grow op that would mean he has to stay put ( you only get paid every 3 months) and that he has a second income.

I think he thinks the hookah = weed

Either way doesn't matter.

Nevermind! I just received the memo reading that it's perfectly fine for a double-vetted hasher to hash away on other people's equipment, photographing said hash equipment juxtaposed with a private list of contacts on Skype, along with a hash pipe on the floor, especially if one's a vetted reseller (guess I won't be the first triple-vetted Bitcoiner) of Black Arrow.

I've already shown that Matt Carson hasn't done what he said. Do I need to re-quote the posts stating he updated the wiring in facility one, then did the same for facility two, all the while there was only one facility in Missouri, or are you ready to concede that fact?

My bad! I mistaken weed for a brand strain of hookah.

Seriously, we can easily take the weed aspect outta the equation, and we'll still be dealing with a liar. The weed issue just has the potential of bringing heat to his currently hosting facility occupied by his investomer's miners located at https://maps.google.com/maps?q=3250+Oakland+St,+Aurora&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x876c7b53c5df3cbf:0x220147301cdb0f76,3250+Oakland+St,+Aurora,+CO+80010&gl=us&ei=MicDU6TPB-HXygGwo4HgBg&ved=0CCkQ8gEwAA

I can't really follow this thread. There seems to be a lot of unrelated information....

So, what's with the name was was given a different bank "Destino" to send the wire to? You mean Black Arrow's account with HSBC Hong Kong were in trouble that they have to give a different bank (in the UK) to send the money to? Isn't this the real bad smell of a scam?

Phinnaeus Gage,

The legitimacy of VeriSilicon has not really a lot to do with Black Arrow. Just imagine, if Black Arrow is pulling the biggest Bitcoin hardware scam for millions of dollars, they can pay (ie. as a investment for the scam) $1 mil. to order the the silicon chips.

VeriSilicon can confirm with us they have a real contract with Black Arrow. They did not confirm what is the size of the contract. Sure, I read your message earlier that it has to be a minimum order for the chips. But what if the minimum order is $1 mil. and the total scam sales is $50 mil. They still pocket $49 mil.

If those above are the only things you found legitimate about Black Arrow, perhaps it's time to consider that all your money paid to Black Arrow is gone. Accept that WE have been scammed NOW, or accept it in May, or later this year...

Has anyone done a Hong Kong company search on "Black Arrow Limited"?

https://www.icris.cr.gov.hk/csci/login_i.do?loginType=iguest

If Black Arrow is indeed a scam, the directors/shareholders will most probably be nominees. They are probably unaware of the the scam, given it is quite shortlived (started last year from September). However, I think there would be a trace because the scammers purchased the shelf company from the incorporator and left some fingerprints behind.

Phinnaeus Gage, you said someone visited the Chinese plant. Who? Can you show me the thread or proof?

Here it is, bud. BTW, bobsag3 is Matt Carson.

This really reminds me of the Kid who is a fry cook at McDonalds and on his Resume puts HEAD CHEF

I have a nephew like that. His last job was dishwasher, but bragged about how the chef asked him for advice. Two weeks later when he got his first check, he smoked it up, then quit, just like he did with every single job he's ever had for the past six years. Once, he held onto a job for almost two months, but I later learnt it was only because one of his fellow co-workers supplied him, along with them both ripping off the joint. The son of a bitch even once ripped off his own mother, taking a hundred dollars outta her purse, then denied it, although he was the only other person in the other room at the time.

Does that mean the bitch deserved it?  ::)

Just kidding.

I'll accept your first post as humor and won't take offense, bud.

As many times as I've read similar, Roger Ver should erect a billboard depicting such verbiage.

You guys want to see an amazing graph?: https://blockchain.info/charts/received-per-day?address=1JTNXgcVCMXhQrLEE9XW71fQjJN1uQpWf7

It stems from one of Black Arrow's wallet address: https://blockchain.info/address/1JTNXgcVCMXhQrLEE9XW71fQjJN1uQpWf7 They better hope that that's not their only wallet, otherwise they're in a heap of trouble.

This is how I found it: http://web.archive.org/web/20130428000608/http://www.cardreaderfactory.com/shop/lancelot.html

First deposit was on Oct. 19, 2012, and currently has $78,472.50 USD in it for anybody seeking a refund from Black Arrow. And, if that's not enough, you'll soon learn once you visit the address above that Black Arrow is garnering 5 BTC every two days via mining income while its investomers are in a holding pattern till May. Doing some quick math, that'll be 5 X 30 X 600 = ~$90,000 USD he'll receive during the next 60 days, while his investomers will only be earning (more quick math, so please check my work) 0 X 0 X 600 X (# of rigs ordered) = 0 during the same timeframe.

Now, I'm no MENSA dude, but to me the investomer's ROI is not looking too good at this penning, while Black Arrow is swimming in bitcoins, all the while checking his margins to see if he could honor any refunds. Perhaps, it's just some Romanian thing, and I'm simply a fuckin' idiot wasting my life away on this here laptop living in my dead mother's van down by the up-the-creek-sans-a-paddle.

~TMIBTCITW

^^^Good news, Keith: http://my-dog-jetta.blogspot.com/2014/01/black-arrow-prospero-x-3-delay.html

Funds are currently available for you to receive your full refund sans waiting a month... or longer.

Glad I could help... FOR FUCKIN' FREE, see there DZ?

Post this in the main thread.

Country....Bat country...

You guys wanna see another amazing graph?: https://blockchain.info/charts/balance?address=1HC3dc4DubRat1P39YBBkwVRbph3ijbtPQ

Besides the wallet in question having received 10,981.801666 BTC to date, DZ's co-op has been paid 1 BTC no less than three times stemming from it. So much for the I've-been-doing-shit-for-free guy. I predict that soon DZ's co-op will be referred to as DZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzMC^not-square.

i'd be seriously fearsome about taking anything from them... where it proves it's a massive fraud, the dude will go to jail, not pass go, not collect BTC200

MENSA status, DZ, really put a lot of thought into forming his co-op, considering he espouses how he's doing all that shit for free.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_cooperative#Why_farmers_form_cooperatives


Ergo, IOFs = I Often Forget shit! Hell, if you drop the hyphen, it's not that big a leap to envision the vetted foxes guarding the chicken coop.

That would be disaster...

Investomer: Verisilicon, does Black Arrow have a contract with you all?
Verisilicon 1: Hey, Mack, is this email guy asking about their first order or subsequent orders?
Verisilicon 2: Just reply with a yes.

It is now the morning of Feb. 20 in China, the day of the supposed-to-be Tapeout. Let's see what Black Arrow will update us...

Meanwhile, over on the BlockChain...

https://blockchain.info/tx/fc84edf9b2fb38b9a92bc0d34d2e9da9cc041b5b7cb5b189bc9525e555858fca



https://blockchain.info/address/147QDjohYpiSPwdgdogpbHtZRW98E5nwhr


http://my-dog-jetta.blogspot.com/2014/01/black-arrow-prospero-x-3-delay.html


Please take the time to read the rest of Keith's back-and-forth with BA. I just wanted to show that there's at least one example of Black Arrow just sitting on the BTC, though claiming their margins are narrow.

The next quote relates to the above, but I desire to point out something else.


That's a pretty odd statement to be making about Black Arrow, considering Matt only takes care of the tickets and maintains the FB page, and even at least once stated that he never met, nor been to the offices of Black Arrow.

I probably would have been gone long time ago from this Black Arrow shit, but because of Matt being not MENSA status like DZ is, he opted to pen the following.


So, pretending for a second that I'm a troll, this troll will continue to stick it up Black Arrow's ass each and every time I uncover shit about their operation.

Because I'm...

TMIBTCITW

I live in hongkong, I know where the company is located the black arrow.
if you want me to help, take care of pre-orders, please inbox. we can talk further.  :-*

Let's revisit Black Arrow's first trustworthy reseller, shall we?

From the desk of Bobsag3, a.k.a. Matt Carson, Black Arrow's first and #1 reseller for their miners.


Timeline of Matt Carson's datacenter locations. Originally posted in Black Arrow's self-moderated thread, but quickly deleted for being...wait for it..off-topic (and that I was trolling, so they claim). Black Arrow has proof that Matt Carson can NOT be trusted, but continue to use him as their official reseller in the US. If I were to use Tom Williams, of mybitcoin.com, as my official reseller for some product, stating that people change, would I be able to sell many product, Alex Sovu, of cardreaderfactory.com? Me, the asshole, no think so, yet...

BUILDING #1: Purchased the building, awaiting infrastructure.



BUILDING #2: Moving to a better facility here (still in Missouri) located 90 miles away.




Here we are, on November 18th, and Matt still has his datacenter in Missouri at the second facility:




November 26th, edited on the 28th, Matt Carson is still in Missouri at the second facility: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=347732.msg3723600#msg3723600


And still upgrading his second facility:


On December 12, 2013, fresh back from China, Matt Carson posted the following... BTW, still located in Missiouri:


On December 13, Matt Carson hired additional staff to work at his Missouri-based datacenter, to date not mentioning Denver even once.


Four hours later, Matt mentions for the first the move to Denver, right after somebody ask about local pickup since he lives in KC. Did his new hires move to Denver with him?


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=288012


BUILDING #3:

Somewhere in Colorado, in some warehouse with 16-18 foot ceilings, ideally well-suited for bitcoin miners that love fiberglass dust sourced from the exposed insulation in the ceilings and walls, blown free from the constantly moving vortex of air due to the industrial-sized air conditioning unit(s). Whatever you do, don't open up that massive overhead door that's probably not well-sealed, otherwise you'll really have the dust a flying.

This has been the third time you're on record in stating that you only moved once. Care to try for a forth time?

~TMIBTCITW

I'm the first to vet this guy, and he looks...puff, puff...cool to...puff, hold........... exhale, puff...me. We only need 4 more people to concur and we'll have the very fist quintuple-vetted Bitcoiner.

miner in his name. CHECK!
club in his name, thus an honest poker player. CHECK!
Registered in 2014, the Year of the Horse. CHECK!
19 is a prime number. CHECK!
January starts on the same day of the week as October, the same month zombies come out to play. CHECK!
Not a Newbie. (We'll let this one ride this time, hence only a small check.)
No idea who he is. DOUBLE CHECK!

PGP Signed.

...BR549...

Surprise!

I mistyped the URL and went to bitcointalk.com, and I saw this warning message:

BitcoinTalk Discussion Board - WARNING – While Bitcointalk.org has a wealth of information about Bitcoin and some very knowledgeable members be aware that the site is run by scammers.  Do not trust any of the ads even if they are endorsed by the site administrators.  The site also encourages the sale of accounts you can never be sure who you are dealing with.

---

So the people here are scammers, and possible working for Black Arrow?

Things are becoming interesting ...

Gotta wonder how trustworthy DZ is now.. It would be a shame that a weak and rushed Vetting process on someone ruin a reputation of what might be a honorable guy.


So now these things linger:


Did DZ not know Bobsag was deceiving the co-op?

Did DZ not know Bobsag did not perform the "Upgrades" to the "WORLD CLASS FACILITY in MO. " ?

DZ states several times about the CO-op transparency so IF HE DID KNOW about all of this stuff was he transparent enough to let the Co-op in on what was going on and how they were being misled?

If DZ did not know what was going on.. SHOULD HE HAVE - being the Leader of the Co-Op , entrusted with almost $100,000

Now that a lot of BS is coming out with investigation has DZ thought about Bobsag being the first person he REVOKES his Vetting Badge and Co-Op Citizenship award from?

 

And why did Black Arrow almost immediately embrace Matt Carson after being vetted by DZ?

And why doesn't a guy who supposedly works at Kauai Test Facility not want to disclose who he really is on this here forum if he truly is providing an honest-to-goodness service?

This game looks fun.

http://www.gamespot.com/oil-tycoon-2/

seemingly some dude tried to buy black arrow equipment last week, and his funds were returned to his bank.
It seems, at least, someone must be checking out the legitimacy of this lot if their bank is returning funds.

The bank account was in Alex Sovu's name, the convicted felon, trusted employee for five years with Black Arrow. But Black Arrow denies that Alex is the owner, yet has everything in his name.

We can do a company search to find out.
https://www.icris.cr.gov.hk/csci/login_i.do?loginType=iguest

http://www.companies-hongkong.com/black-arrow-limited-wf97/

that doesnt say they are not a viable company, just that should have been first registered i'd presume

this [http://www.companies-hongkong.com/black-arrow-limited-wf97/] is a free service. Information obtained here may not be updated.

their factory in Shenzhen, I can going to them 2 hours by car.  :)
just provide proof your purchasing from them, I'll follow up  8)

Dear clubminer,

I think you should just go and check out if the factory exists and also if it is the same factory as reported here:

http://imgur.com/4VFm2Ot,K7OGvEY,urewakH,mNPMmh0,WRgkT7E,8Bg48Ld,pGXfgPG,cBrAYty,c7sNH2z,g0XUeKz,VujDmo2,23pvKOe,ZfqwUoq,waIDprc,uA1IYMT,9vfmLEw,5OUKvMX,VQuShrB,2FLmrIA,1jhcfcL,rXj2bU8,u29NUPj,Jnwlpto,zIDoHDX,92ouQ99,8o85TeY,2pq0Fz7,fxBhGx3,8Ya3lBF,cbEwUQs,uzlvMXg,b4ZdNee,PTgotfx,2Q3aMvQ,mYCg8ez,43Sl743,Hm0jaWl,p4f4cKI,PZsSdoo,X69NCBP,GdEWtjB,MLI9b7x,rzAo2Ar,pSkWGPL,xcGZyNJ,dtV8itj,27IRJhm,i8NgRy7,yUJKRG4,fw5qBvl,rIPRqtp,ieQ1tTP,8u8UiCa,uieE0Sc,dO4kzm8,4O0Lo1J,PwKWIqc,SAcUUg7,9AdslG3,aXs8Xe4,C852l7v,Q45CvRO,V1yaaVb,5QOI2uk,eZ34Itj

If possible, you can go inside and ask them if they are Black Arrow (I doubt the sign "Black Arrow" is displayed outside). If they say they are, tell them you're interested to place an order. And ask them if the order is made now, when can the hardware be delivered or picked up?

You should investigate like a potential customer interested but skeptical. (There is no point to bring our order # because they will conveniently say those are not your order and won't comment on them.)

BTW, if you're interested in buying mining hardware, have you checked out HashFast's new Sierra Evo 3 and CoinTerra's new GSX I PCIe Card?

http://hashfast.com

http://cointerra.com

You are kidding right?

HashFast is now producing and delivering the Baby Jets, which is expected to complete by end of March for all the batches. They have announced the new ASIC chip, which delivers about 800 GH/s. Their new rack-moutable machine will perform 2 TH/s and any order now is expected to begin delivery around April.

http://hashfast.com/evoproductsonsale/

CoinTerra has completed enginering for the TerraMiners and now on production. All the batches will be delivered by end of April or May.

http://cointerra.com/cointerra-announces-gsx-pcie-bitcoin-mining-card/

BTW, one more thing... Both HashFast and CoinTerra cannot produce performance-per-electrical consumption that Black Arrow claims they could. So, I'm getting even more skeptical...

CoinTerra TerraMiner @ 2 TH/s consumes 1,650 W
HashFash Sierra Evo 3 @ 2 TH/s consumes 2,200 W

... as for Black Arrow Prospero X-3 @ 2 TH/s, they claim 1,050 W. Either this is a blaten lie and scam, or they have super engineers.

Why are you so dedicated on spreading misinformation?

Both cointerra and hashfast have had much longer delays than BA and underperforming hardware. It is a bit hilarious you seem to think bfl/ct/hf are any sort of gold standard when it comes to asics.

BA has advertised 0.6gh/w for the chip alone. So that equates to around 1000w per TH for the complete miner.

BA has just announced successful tapeout confirmed by verisilicon. Care to comment on this?


Btw asicminer next gen 40nm chips will be 0.2w/gh. Does that make you skeptical?

So 2.8th/2800W per prospero x-3

All those information I've posted can be verified by examining the details posted by the respective companies. Please take a close look at the news released by CoinTerra and HashFast. Please also search Google, Twitter and YouTube about what their customers are saying.


All the companies - ButterflyLabs, CoinTerra and HashFash - had overpromised on delivery times. However, they were transparent in their business operations. They directors and staff were known and revealed. The have attended trade shows and had been interviewed and reported by journalists. On the contrary, the people at Black Arrow hides behind a shield. I even saw a message that Matt of Black Arrow was telling Phinnaeus Gage that he refuses to reveal his real name.

HashFast is now clearing Batch 2, 3 and 4 of the Baby Jets, expected to complete by end of March.

CoinTerra is now in production of the TerraMiners and will company by April/May.

YES, BFL, CT and HF are currently the GOLD STANDARD in mining hardware. Absolutely. Black Arrow will just turn out to be a 100% confirmed scam soon...


Prospero X-3 consumes only 1,050 W for 2 TH/s. None of the proven legitimate companies - CoinTerra, HashFast and ButterFly - with track-record (both good and bad) has achieved this. So, Black Arrow must have hired super-engineers from space.


To be honest, I have no comments (yet), because I think the stories are made up. Further, they claim their will appear the trade show in Texas this week. Well, when I take a closer look, it is not them, but their US reseller "minersource". So, that reseller is either one of the scammers or a victim of the scam.


Yes, from which company?

Ah yes I forgot weekly updates from blackarrow is definately "non-transparent".


Where were you 1 month ago when cointerra and hashfast were both ~3 months behind schedule? My guess is you didn't know about bitcoin back then.

Neither CT or HF have actually attended any trade shows prior to completing an asic.


Basically proving my point you are new to the bitcoin mining game. Even PG would agree that not only are those 3 companies NOT the gold standard, they are the absolute worst companies that have delivered asics (cointerra is not so bad in my book actually)


First off as the post before you states, a prospero will consume around 2000W for 2TH. And that is beside the fact that 1000W for 2TH is more than possible if asicminer can achieve 0.2W/GH on a 40nm chip where as BA is using 28nm.



Asicminer. You might not have heard of them being so new to bitcoin. They (having invented bitcoin asics) are the real gold standard along with bitfury/KNC/bitmain.

BA is surely a gamble but its about time you stop grasping at straws in an attempt to prove its a scam. Its not like anyone is thinking about preordering an asic with bitcoin prices so low. Anyone thinking about buying from BA now would be better off waiting for them to have miners in hand.

My friends and I have order from Black Arrow since November. None of us are getting weekly updates from them. Further, one day after they announced the delay to May, we requested refund immediately. For me, they said "your request in the refund queue". For my other friends, all enquiries had been ignored.

Sure, I know HashFast was terribly behind schedule. A guy placed his order in August eventually received it in January. I placed mine in December and I got an email from HashFast last week Tuesday that it will delivered in March. So, I'm glad.

CoinTerra, same story. I placed my order in Dec. and looking at their updates, I thinK I'll get my machine in  April.

HashFast executive interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yj-mmnRWYc

CoinTerra's CEO was formally from big company. He is well know, can be verified and has a LinkedIn profile.

Alright, if Black Arrow turns out to be not a scam, I'll order from them. I will visit their factory to verify (after they deliver) and will probably resell for them. :-)

Name:   DyslexicZombei
Posts:   1309
Activity:   224
Position:   Full Member
Date Registered:   July 25, 2013, 03:04:18 PM
Last Active:   February 26, 2014, 10:59:49 PM

How about a complex scam to negatively impact Bitcoin? I'm starting to suspect that customers won't be seeing any hardware until BA can guarantee to it's handlers that the miners can't ROI.

I'm bearish on the mid-may shipping date. 

It's passed mid-May and Black Arrow is no longer providing any shipping date. It looks like all the miners are going into their ASIC farm and all the BTC into their wallets.

These guys are committing fraud.

And, my <300 posts mostly calling them, et al. out on their thread were allowed to be deleted because...?

You do realize that the Co-op and BA's three main resellers are in on it, don't you? Or did you, among others, not see that post prior it being deleted?

But, don't worry! All BA's customer's have been duly warned - time and time again - to not invest moneys they couldn't afford to lose, ergo be more careful next time.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm in the process of nailing an active US exchange to the wall, along with the venerable Bitcoin-based team that surrounds it only a couple blocks away.

Hopefully, not too many fellow bitcoiners got too smoked up while attending that last conference, opting to join the dark side while not being in full capacity of their senses.

BTW, if Boussac seemed a tad shaken up prior to him given his talk at the conference, there probably was a good reason for it, thus anybody having funds in Bitcon-Central best get them out while the getting out is still good, for I have a feeling... Otherwise, you'll be making lemonade with that LEMON. Pierre knows exactly what I'm talking about, and should believe by now that it's to his, AND HIS CLOSE ALLIES' best interest to return my 1,132 BTC that's currently residing in one of davout's bitcoin wallets.

~Bruno "Ready to go Full Tilt" Kucinskas

I will post  this here as my posts seem to keep getting deleted over a ecoin etc:



I've been waiting for a crime number for the alledged data breach back at the start of August so i can give it to the UK police.

I was told on the 25th:

"The Chinese police are refusing to open a case because they want a list with a minimum amount of customers which is higher than we have. To open a case with the Hong Kong police somebody from management will need to physically go there, which they haven't been able to do yet. "

 And today when i asked i was told :

"We have been to the Shenzhen police but they didn't want to continue as I said in my earlier post. We haven't had time yet to go to Hong Kong and go to the police there."

I'm starting to think there was no data breachand yet again i'm lead a merry Dance Sad

Why cant anyone be bothered in a month to report the crime to hong kong police?

I've had several emails back and forth with the Hong Kong PD about Black Arrow and provided them with all my documents and details. Haven't heard from them since July though so have sent follow ups.

I'm pretty sure when I signed up here before I posted my story but it says I only have 1 post. Maybe it got deleted here.

If you had a post deleted, you will have received a PM with a copy of said post. Check your PM

I also filed with the HK police, and the HK Consumer Counsel, so far have been in contact with HK CC only, not heard from police as of yet

This guy fits the bill of Alex Savu quite well:

https://www.facebook.com/alex.savu.9?fref=browse_search

This is him:
https://www.facebook.com/alex27a

does anyone have any updated details for the secret location in London ?

"Sorry, this page isn't available"

Looks like he's trying to save face.

He was already a massive ponzi scheme - why anyone would have expected any other outcome,  all this is beyond to me

Unfortunately I didn't become a member of BCT until after I received the e-mail from BA stating they were delaying shipping for two months to "ensure that the product provides the best­-possible user experience".

I've since become a Sr. Member in the time (over a year) that I've waited for my order to ship or be refunded.