Bitcoin Forum

First thing in the morning and this is the first Bitcoin news that showed up in my feed... https://www.ccn.com/rich-bitcoin-trader-risks-death-penalty-for-building-home-on-the-sea/amp

I remember there was a thread here talking about this same project. Also IIRC they were still within Thailand's territorial waters. Do you think the government would push through the complaint and actually arrest the couple?

I think this case would hamper further seasteading attempts since they would all have to at least be assembled near the coast before being dragged into international waters. Governments can follow Thailand's example and file complaints while projects are still under construction.

Also, I thought there were reports from the Seasteading Institute that Elwar had gotten permission from Thailand.

This is why I would rather do it by boat. What's it going to take to drag that thing far enough away from Thailand so it won't bother them or anyone? Also, I thought there were reports from the Seasteading Institute that Elwar had gotten permission from Thailand.

8)

Death sentence for a Seastead??  Holy shit talk about strict laws.

Any news from him on how he's doing? It's disappointing what the Thai government did to him.

Hopefully the same thing don't happen to the project in Polynesia. That is a far ambitious project. If the government end up seizing it I'd be pissed.


A yacht - or a cruise ship. I remember watching a documentary about a family living in a yacht, a couple and a son and daughter. I think that setup is much easier to move around.

This is our very own Elwar (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=554). I very much hope he makes it out of there safely...

It's depressing for the whole seasteading movement. The dream is/was to be able to have many tiny sovereign seasteads ("let a thousand nations bloom"), but this makes me think that we may in practice need larger, more defensible seasteads along with guaranteed-autonomy agreements with governments. Or maybe someone needs to create a large private military that is a credible threat against countries like Thailand, and sell "invasion insurance" to seasteads.


I remember that Blue Frontiers had some sort of an agreement with French Polynesia; I don't know about Thailand.

A private military is the only way to show these governments you mean business.  Without one they will just continue to walk over anyone attempting to break away from their control.

If he hasn’t been arrested yet, and he and his wife have a valid passport, they should flea the country.

In general, in order to get extradited from another country, the alleged crime in question needs to also be illegal in the deporting country and also, many countries will not extradite if the death penalty is being considered.

Edit: it looks like they are currently in hiding. The Thailand navy reportedly raided the structure today (Thursday), but no one was there. Elwars visa was apparently revoked. Hopefully they have made it out of the country. 

One of Elwar's threads: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5095773.0;all

That's too bad. Its a shame Thailand is cracking down on this because it could be an economic boon to them. I suppose control is more important than their economy though. I hope they know how bad they are making themselves look by taking this move. Also generally it is not a good idea to threaten the lives of people in a community who are smart, rich, and resourceful. If they go too far they are going to create a self fulfilling prophesy and make themselves a target.

A private military is the only way to show these governments you mean business.  Without one they will just continue to walk over anyone attempting to break away from their control.

That's the thing. We have no country preventing us from doing something about it. Pirates thrive due to merchant ships not being allowed to have guns.

We have guns. With more (bigger ones) coming.

the thing that bothers me is that he was very open about the whole project. its not like it was a secret, this was months in the making, and pretty well documented on social media. at any time the Thia government could of said, look, you cant do that here.

instead, they wait till its up, send a naval warship and charge them with a crime that can carry the death penalty or life imprisonment?

https://i.imgur.com/aQX7O7S.gifv

GREAT NEWS! I got contact from Chad Elwartowski (AKA Elwar) via PM earlier this morning notifying me that he and his girlfriend have been able to escape to nearby Vietnam via boat.

Maybe Elwar and his people lived on boats for a while. I think he wants to make something more permanent.

Seasteaders Offer to Help Thailand With Rising Sea Levels

San Francisco, April 22, 2019 -- The chairman of the Seasteading Institute (https://www.seasteading.org/) Patri Friedman, urged compassion for a couple whose floating home was seized last week by the Thailand government, declaring that “their actions were no threat to Thai sovereignty” and “our organization works with governments and not against them”.

American Chad Elwartowski and his Thai partner Nadia Supranee Thepdet were not aboard when the Thai navy boarded the platform they had called home for several months. Thai authorities revoked the visa of Chad, an early bitcoin investor, and charged him and his partner with violating Thai sovereignty by floating the cabin 14 nautical miles off the west coast of the Thai island of Phuket.

Friedman said he “was shocked and saddened last week by media reports that this couple was charged with treason – punishable in Thailand by death or life imprisonment – simply because no one had filed paperwork for the floating home. This is like charging someone with a capital crime for not registering their car.”

He added “For Chad and Nadia, it was the realization of a romantic dream to live openly and peacefully on the ocean...I am deeply relieved to see that officials are considering dropping the death penalty.”

Friedman, grandson of Nobel Prize-winning economist Milton Friedman, suggested instead that “Thai authorities should follow the lead of the United Nations, who recommend floating cities be part of the global community's new arsenal of tools in the fight against climate change.”

Using statistics from a recent United Nations High-Level conference on Sustainable Floating Cities in New York in early April, Friedman pointed to the Thai capital: “Seasteading concepts can help cities like Bangkok which are increasingly at risk of flooding. Some parts of the city are sinking by around two centimetres a year, while sea levels in the Gulf of Thailand are rising.”

He concluded that “we look forward to future partnerships with states, NGOs, and communities to test new ideas and solutions for all. We would be honored and delighted to share our research with the Thai government, as sustainable floating cities are a key tool to address climate change and other 21st century challenges.”

About The Seasteading Institute

The Seasteading Institute (TSI) is a United States 501(c)(3) non-profit. Our mission is to enable seasteading communities – floating cities – where pioneers can peacefully test new laws and political systems and inspire change in governments around the world.  We work on this mission through research and education with individuals, organizations, and governments. Our current main initiative is sustainable seasteading through facilitating the creation of the first floating city.

As a non-profit organization dedicated to the entire seasteading movement, our role is not to build seasteads, but to empower others to do so. Our Floating City Project envisions a model wherein a nation and a company will establish a public-private partnership to construct and operate a floating city with significant legal autonomy that functions as an integrated and efficient product to meet the needs of citizens. This project builds on over a decade of engineering and legal research, political and maritime industry diplomacy, and building a community of aspiring seasteaders.
For press inquiries contact press@seasteading.org.
 
Seasteading Institute Founder’s Full Statement On Peaceful Platform Near Thailand

I founded The Seasteading Institute in 2008 to enable seasteading communities – floating cities – where pioneers can peacefully test new laws and political systems and inspire change in governments around the world. Our decade of legal research advocates for a variety of strategies within current international law, such as flagged vessels, and partnering with innovative and progressive governments.

A few months ago, a diverse group of activists, engineers, and writers, aided by Thai shipyards, built and launched a platform from Thailand. It was anchored outside territorial waters, as verified by GPS records. This remarkable achievement in affordable ocean technology was done in partnership with Thai shipyards and could help humanity adapt to rising sea levels.

The platform’s first two occupants were a cosmopolitan couple, Chad Elwartowski of America and Nadia Supranee Thepdet of Thailand. For Chad and Nadia, it was the realization of a romantic dream to live openly and peacefully on the ocean, where they released videos of their adventure.

I was shocked and saddened last week by media reports that this couple was charged with treason – punishable in Thailand by death or life imprisonment – simply because no one had filed paperwork for the floating home. This is like charging someone with a capital crime for not registering their car.

I urge compassion for these two brave seasteaders, as their actions were no threat to Thai sovereignty. I am deeply relieved to see that officials are considering dropping the death penalty. This is in Thailand’s best interests, as by threatening a harmless couple with death for a minor infraction, Thailand would only be threatening their own tourism industry.

Instead, Thai authorities should follow the lead of the United Nations, who recommend floating cities be part of the global community's new arsenal of tools in the fight against climate change. Seasteading concepts can help cities like Bangkok which are increasingly at risk of flooding. Some parts of the city are sinking by around two centimetres a year, while sea levels in the Gulf of Thailand are rising.

Our mission is to help humanity by settling the blue frontier, and so our organization works with governments, not against them. We support following international and local laws and look forward to future partnerships with states, NGOs, and communities to test new ideas and solutions for all. We would be honored and delighted to share our research with the Thai government.

While we don’t have enough specifics on this incident to comment on the various legal claims, we do know the United Nations Convention on Law of the Sea. Beyond territorial waters, the world’s oceans are the “common heritage of humanity”, not some unclaimed free-for-all. But neither should they be a death sentence.

Rather, sustainable floating cities are a key tool to address climate change and other 21st century challenges. Please join me in spreading the message that humanity needs its seasteaders in action – not in jail, in hiding, or in the grave.

Patri Friedman,
Founder and Chairman of the Board,
The Seasteading Institute
San Francisco, California, April 22, 2019.

P.s. Some news reports have erroneously stated that our organization directly represents those involved. We wish to clarify that, to best support seasteading in general, we don’t represent or speak on behalf of any particular individual.

Additionally, while we publish general research on international law for educational purposes, local regulations, precedents, and interpretations vary around the world. We do not, and cannot, provide legal advice or representation, and recommend with the utmost vigor that anyone attempting anything like seasteading obtain independent legal counsel.

Might may not make right, but it seems to make what exists.

Too bad Elwar didn't do his thing further out to sea. As it is, many countries claim 200 miles out, even though they formally state only 12 miles.

This shows that no matter how peaceful or "tiny" you are, "they" always want control.

Elwar and others need to find some place that is far enough away from all lands that nobody will even notice them.

8)

From the eighteenth century until the mid twentieth century, the territorial waters of the British Empire, the United States, France and many other nations were three nautical miles (5.6 km) wide.
Originally, this was the length of a cannon shot, hence the portion of an ocean that a sovereign state could defend from shore.

200 Nautical miles is the Exclusive economic zone (fishing rights, oil drilling....., no one else is allowed to commercially operate within)
12 Nautical miles is for most countries the Territorial sea extention, some still have the old 3 Miles or something else.
Crossing that line you are "in the country".

The US does have a 24 mile Contiguous zone. Internal waters, (lakes and rives) a country has total sovereignty.



What the Thai Navy did is a act of Piracy.

I just hope this is not the same Elwar...

https://www.reddit.com/r/TREZOR/comments/begdhm/my_trezor_is_not_recognized_by_any_computer/

Do you think this - https://www.trackcoinmarket.com/en/crypto-news/33524/prime-suspect-bitcoin-scam-arrested-thailand - has anything to do with Elwar?

8)

Do you think this - https://www.trackcoinmarket.com/en/crypto-news/33524/prime-suspect-bitcoin-scam-arrested-thailand - has anything to do with Elwar?

8)

Unfortunately, this was expected. There were just too close to the coast. Seasteading can only be considered safe if you're more than 200 miles from any country. I guess Elwar must relocate to the middle of the Pacific...

However, there are many near-surface, ocean plateaus where nobody would care. Some of them are within the 200 miles. Yet, nobody would care.

The Caribbean to the edge of the Atlantic is full of such places. Elwar would have to start over, and rebuild his seastead. And he would have to haul it by boat, or at least install a motor on it. If he gets safely away from Thai authorities 100%, he can start over.

Personally, I would like to see him succeed. I think that he isn't doing anyone wrong, or harm, or damage, in any way. Let him get advice on this, and start over. After all, the first settlers in the Americas had their share of trouble. We have many more options than they did.

8)

Thats one failed such place https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/republic-of-minerva
also
http://self.gutenberg.org/articles/eng/Republic_of_Rose_Island
how is this
http://self.gutenberg.org/articles/eng/Principality_of_Sealand






Seasteading or Liberland (https://liberland.org/en/) are not the only pushes for freedom.
The words situation now is similar to 1989 USSR to many pushing for freedom at to many places, only a matter of time before the first really succeed for the long term.

To my knowledge they attempt to buy Gibraltar.
https://www.freesociety.com/

There are lots of places which could be bought cheaply, but most are to far away. For years UK has been looking for people moving to Pitcairn Islands, no-one is interested to move there.

The way forward, A society based on voluntary interactions instead of government force.

The WSJ published an article (https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-libertarian-nirvana-at-sea-runs-into-a-stubborn-opponent-the-thai-navy-11556466473?mod=hp_featst_pos3) today online.

According to the article, Elwar was *only* living in the seastead, did not own it, nor choose the location. He apparently was planning on investing in the company that sells them, but that never materialized. The Thai government also towed the seastead back to land early last week.

I searched for his facebook, and Elwar posted that he and his wife are safe, and is avoiding social media to avoid making a mistake that will reveal his location.

Well, Elwar's getting famous, the WSJ is writing about him! He can be proud of that. Actually, I believe he was lucky, and that Thailand has been nice. It would have been much worse if he had chosen to seastead near the US, Russia or China.

I wonder if Thailand has issued a search warrant against him (a local lawyer could check that). Then, he would be in real trouble.

Police say they are figuring out whether to request an arrest warrant for endangering Thai sovereignty

it's sad how people have taken control of different territorial and even water bodies. right now all I can remember is pirates who also used to live on water bodies with their floating ships. what if someone just takes their ships and stays in the middle of water bodies and builds a farm or something.

If you are on a ship it's not a problem. Thailand has attempted to contact Elwar's seastead to make them move. You simply cannot have a permanent building there, like an oil platform. I don't like what the government is doing to them, but think about it for a second. They don't know what he's doing there. What if he was a cyber terrorist trying to hack into the computers of passing ships through their wifi and steal private data? What if there was an accident because some passing ship didn't see his seastead at night and rammed it?
When you have a sea boat you also have a working radio, a radar, proper lights, and are able to move if needed. Nobody should have a problem with you living on a boat (at least not in a civilized country, which Thailand in light of the recent events might not be).

What hack into the local fishermen in the wooden boats.

If you want some data you have to go places where there is data, out in the ocean is none and power is also hard to get.

Lets just hope you never go to sea because you have no idea whatsoever. A massive steel seastead can be seen on radar for a very long way, pity the poor fisherman in his small wooden boat, you sure gonna ram him out of the way. People been crossing oceans for ages when traveling solo, sleeping at night, do they all get rammed. Do you regularly ram parked cars at night?

I could keep posting but what's the point? It's not about how many accidents there are but about rules set to prevent such accidents.

@coolcoinz
Did not even bother to read response as errors a to numerous.

All of the incidents you cited took place in different countries (assuming they occurred within their respective territorial waters.

Who created these alleged rules? Under what authority?

What rules would Elwar need to follow to stay “compliant”?

I am not sure if you are aware, but Elwar was located in international waters that no country has claim to.  

Thai authorities say that it's their economic zone where they are allowed to fish and such. It's strange that no country is against Thailand performing military operations in international waters. They sent a warship to dismantle the seastead and move it within its borders, so they stole a property that neighboring countries like Malaysia could have equal claims to, but obviously nobody cares.

It's not that nobody cares, it's the contrary. All countries support Thailand. All countries would have reacted exactly the same way, and Elwar was naive to think he was safe being just behind the 12 miles limit. Try to build a seastead 13 miles off the coast of Florida, you'll get Marines assaulting you within days.

Territorial sea, as defined by the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea,[1] is a belt of coastal waters extending at most 12 nautical miles (22.2 km; 13.8 mi) from the baseline (usually the mean low-water mark) of a coastal state. The territorial sea is regarded as the sovereign territory of the state, although foreign ships (military and civilian) are allowed innocent passage through it, or transit passage for straits; this sovereignty also extends to the airspace over and seabed below. Adjustment of these boundaries is called, in international law, maritime delimitation.

A state's territorial sea extends up to 12 nautical miles (22.2 km; 13.8 mi) from its baseline. If this would overlap with another state's territorial sea, the border is taken as the median point between the states' baselines, unless the states in question agree otherwise. A state can also choose to claim a smaller territorial sea.

Conflicts have occurred whenever a coastal nation claims an entire gulf as its territorial waters while other nations only recognize the more restrictive definitions of the UN convention. Claims which draw baseline in excess of 24 nautical miles (two 12 NM limits) are judged excessive by the U.S. Two conflicts occurred in the Gulf of Sidra where Libya drew a line in excess of 230 NM and claimed the entire enclosed gulf as its territorial waters. The U.S. exercised freedom of navigation rights twice, in the 1981 and 1989 Gulf of Sidra incidents.

In the U.S. federal system, individual states exercise ownership (subject to federal law) up to 3 nautical miles (9 nautical miles for Texas and Florida) from shore, while the federal government exercises sole territorial jurisdiction further out (see Tidelands).

Hoping for good news on this..

he sent the message "I'm alive" very recently. which of course is good news.

instead, they send warships. i can almost understand that actually, but the way they did it was over the top IMO.

IMO we should boycott Thailand among our community until Elwar is free, and spread the word that American tourists risk the death penalty going there.

Thailand is going complete way-hay, not really surprising for a dictatorship.
Soon taking a selfie will get you a possible death sentence.
https://canoe.com/news/world/bikini-clad-selfie-taking-tourists-could-face-death-penalty-on-this-thai-beach

For a Buddhist country Thailand seem to be quite enthusiastic to slap the death penalty on various offenses. Maybe next time they'll explain it as "assisted reincarnation".

just need signs at every point of entry thats says "Welcome to Thailand. We may kill you for any reason at any time. Enjoy your stay."

just need signs at every point of entry thats says "Welcome to Thailand. We may kill you for any reason at any time. Enjoy your stay."

This (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=82224.msg51156882#msg51156882) is a good sign. I am curious why Elwar would post at all and not make some kind of statement.

I think he probably posted that bump because CSW recently got the bitcoin white paper copyrighted in the US.

I am not sure where he is now, but I presume he won’t give an update until he believes he is in a country that will not extradite him back to Thailand.

That is a reasonable assumption. I would think that he would play it safe and not even log in again until he is though. If he is not in a safe place yet logging in or posting is probably not a good idea.

It's time to move to sea. Elwar has showed us that the nations don't like the idea. But the oceans are large. We don't have to sit a mere 13 or 14 miles off the shore of some nation. There's lots of room out there.

8)

"Live Free at Sea"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDYO4_845Is

the interview with the sea stead institutes joe quirk was don AFTER the legal trouble elwar got into. so lessons should have been learned. but instead Joe was still saying 'move 12 miles out to sea' (facepalm)

lesson: if you make a 'nation' 12 miles from a mainland. guess what your 'nations' 12 mile inclusion zone overlaps the mainlands 12mile inclusion zone

international /               \    international
__waters___|____o____|_____waters_                         
                   \ seastead /
mainland       \ waters /     mainland
waters                                     waters
                    mainland

solution: stop advising build at 12 miles offshore and instead advise 25miles (1m spare buffer to avoid questioning of over lap

Wrong, first is 12 nautical miles not miles, second not every nation has the 12 NM territorial border. If you can only patrol some yards and deceit to have the territorial border at a few yards out then the total is 12NM and some yards.

Authoritarian assertion it seems

It ain't really easy to move that far away, you'd have to be in international waters thousands of miles from land and you'd have to be self-sufficient to survive. That's why they usually make the seastads near other countries, but it always backfires like this :( Even if outside of their zone..

Of course, it's not exactly easy. However, all major nations have technically, legally agreed that beyond 12 nautical miles off their shores is international waters. There are many nations that hold as much as 200 nm as business waters for their nation, even though it is technically international waters. Two hundred miles out isn't all that far regarding how far international waters go. There are loads of underwater shelves in the Pacific Ocean that are less than 100 meters deep - shallow enough for a seastead - and outside of even the business waters of all nations.

If Elwar had doubled the 12 nm, and planted his seastead 25 nm out, he might have been safe. But safety has to do with keeping a low profile. Elwar was advertising. If Thailand hadn't bothered him, it might not have been long before some pirates would have checked him out just to see.

8)

They keyword is might have been  :D
I'd love to see a new sovereign nation built this way, but considering past efforts, I'm pessimistic about someone succeeding anywhere close to another nation. Sealand is the only successive effort that I know of.

and also elwars pod was never big enough to have groundspace to grow own food on rook or have enough solar panels for normal living electric needs. and to make a larger platform comes with more costs
in short the further away from mainland the more costly it gets

Sounds like you need to re-watch "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea (1954)" - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0046672/.

8)

sounds like your research is mainly in the fiction arena

:D

But you don't seem to have the imagination that it takes to even do research.

On the other hand, maybe you have done your research. Notice how you don't capitalize your sentences. Maybe you do it because you don't want your sentence to be capital punishment. :D

8)

this is a social forum not a legal document. thus no need for the formalities that elitist egotists always perform, to try appearing better than others

i prefer the content of my words to mean more, not the appearance of my words

if you think bad grammar = no experience. then sucks to be you.
many people who do a heck of alot of research then dont have time to simplify it down to 'dummy' standard and then go back and glamourise it with techno jargon again and grammar and punctuation.
the message should just speak for itself

by the way, are you rich yet by doing the 'slapp' lawsuits you been training to perform

Anarchast Ep.498 Topics include: the very early days of bitcoin, starting out with the seasteading movement, the Tahiti project, how the Thailand seastead started, the search for freedom, fake news in Thailand makes Nadia a figure to be hated, a threat to national security, threatened with the death penalty, life on the run, the Panama project, great new plans, a call for collaboration, Chad and Nadia to be at Anarchapulco.

oh elwar.. i can already see his plan B. he wants to do a edward snowdon style publicity script making out a country wants to kill him..
but elwar main goal is doing public appearances and ride that money train next.
.. nice braces by the way,
im guessing your publicist advised you to correct your teeth before proper public appearances in the near future

i have been watching elwar for years and seen he was always riding the exhaust trails of big money. trying to seek millions in investments with no real big returns.
seeking double figure millions to buy a boat so 15 people can ave meetings on to discuss next campaign
and even with investments coming in he just used like $30k(doesnt look like 150k costs) for a small pod that he only visits for youtube segments just for promoting..

sorry i just dont see elwar as a true figure head for 'freeing' the planet of corrupt government control of citizens. he is a secret capitalist in libertarian sheepskin

He said as he scratched his ass from his bedroom.

actually im on a plane right now.
and i leave my butt scratching for when in the shower
but nice to know where you think most forum members lives exist in. more revealing about your lifestyle maybe

anyway for years elwar has been trying to promote citizenship on his seastead campaigns. even in the video just linked he is talking about making birth certificates an such.. so pretending now he was just a guest on someone elses pod an he had no intention of being a true seasteader is a bit cowardy.

mostly due to him for over a year promoting how its his home and his design involvement and such and now trying to finger point the blame at some 'space engineer guy'
shameful

anyway, im guessing soon he will release a book about his life and do public interviews how he was such a pioneer and such blah. where al he really is after is the money

i called him out many times over the years on his crap and he could not even answer the basic questions of sanitation but was always fast to promote the citizenship

yea.. millions of citizens registered to a couple dozen bedroom boat was his previous project.. if no one else could see the holes in that plan then i feel sorry for people that think elwar is some positive role model

Nobody knows what is really in the heart of another person until he acts. I'm not going to say that parking a seastead next to Thailand was wise. But we don't know that Elwar did it with hostile intent. And, we don't know that he did it with anything other than what he said and showed, to live free and promote a business of making seasteads.

If his plan was to popularize himself, so what? Lots of people do this kind of thing. It's a dog-eat-dog world in the world of business. Even you are popularizing yourself by being the guy who doesn't use proper punctuation and grammar. So, nobody can tell what you are really saying... a built-in disclaimer.

8)

seems the only thing you can knitpick about me is my grammar. ok i fully understand the limits of your rebuttles
but that just has more to say about you then me

elwars actions have been visible for yours. its called research. i know you prefer to be told what to think rather than do some actual research. but again thats something only you have to deal with.

as for elwars actions he is not trying to promote businesses that are actually going to flourish. he just loves the whole kickstarter money grab promotions and the excitement, which people that do ico's love so much.. while they later run off

elwars morals are not on the same path as his words or actions. making it obvious he is not interested in the underlying concept/purpose of certain projects. he justs wants to ride the viral buzz of new famed projects for the money grabs

elwars morals are obviously lacking due to the fact that one month promotes himself as the guy making a seastead and wants to offer birth certification to the seastead. then when in trouble point fingers and say other people were the ones that done it and he was just a volunteer guest

but if you want to get personal about me, havnt you learned already even through your lenses of grammar nazism that i just dont care. my content is what matters not the presentation

many people can understand what i say. infact smart people can understand this total grammar nazi crime:
1f 40u c4n r34d 7h15 th3n 40u d0n7 n33d 70 83 4 9r4mm4r n4z1

by the way a phones autocorrect grammar check is not a talent. its a reliance on services that watch what your write

your rebuttles are boring. its your posts not my intestines you should concern yourself with.

try doing some research next time and stop just becoming an auto-fan because you see someone on youtube

ok this badecker vs franky1 bit about grammar etc.. can we stop now?

i ignore punctuation and such too. its my style in forums. ignore me if it bothers anyone.

now as for Elwar and the seastead.. sure mistakes were made. if mistakes we NOT made then they were not trying hard enough. But he is doing what many others would not, which is not giving up the dream when setbacks occurred. learn, try again. thats how we win.

and i see Elwar out there pushing boundaries in a technology that could solve many of our problems while we are stuck on this rock. not many here can say that (not including coin devs etc of course).

yes there are still many problems with seasteads, and they wont get solved by ignoring them. but at least someone is trying.. not just Elwar of course but he seems most visable because of the "Thailand invasion."

Elwar, best of luck with your dreams. already youve accomplished more than most of us can even dream of.

elwars dream was not to be a seasteader, his dream was to live for free(no cost) and to get rich. yes his main income platform was seasteading but even he couldnt live 24/7 in the middle of the ocean all year

as for seasteadin themselves as noted a few pages ago. even they have not learned their lessons by still pushing the "12mile" number. the elwar drama should have made them atleast be within of a 25+mile number to be spouting out about

__| _ 0 _ |___
    \ ____/
as you can see although 0 is above 12mile  territory line if those in 0 started to do their own citizenship and want to set up their own colony/country/democracy/political system. the 12 mile of the 0 overlaps the 12 mile of the mainland
and thats the issue

but hell elwar ran off and finger pointed the blame of the project at other people and pretended he was not seasteading..
shows how not so pioneering he is after all.

but he certainly enjoyed the profits from his adventures

How in the world dense are you? Living for free and getting rich is what everybody wants... except you, apparently. The only reason people don't try to do this very much is that they are trapped on land. Government regs won't let them.

Since there aren't any clear boundaries in the distant ocean, why not live free out there, living off the fish that you can catch? And if you can make a few bucks by showing others how to do it, why not? Elwar simply wasn't careful enough to go out farther.

nothing in live is free even in a currencyless society. it takes time and effort to do things.
elwar however didnt want to do the hard work he wanted someone else to build the pod someone else set it up, so that he can just holiday there a few evenings a week making videos and then try getting money for nothing. then when crap hits the fan. finger point and blame others

If Elwar can get stuff for free, all the more power to him... just so long as he doesn't take advantage of someone. People had reasons for giving him what they gave him for free.

Hearsay...

... or do you have the court docs where he was convicted.

Everybody makes mistakes, even you.

What goes around comes around.

It seems that Elwar won't be doing a lot real fast. If you don't like him, don't go to Anarchapulco.

one thing you keep fooling yourself over is that punishment only belongs in the court room.
you think the answer to everything is to go to trial. yet the foolish thing is you have no clue of all the processes involved to even get to a trial court.

try it one day, try to piss off someone in a bar with your foolish rhetoric. enjoy the hospital bill.
oh and you would be the one with the harassment record if you think you can make a claim. because knowing how you interact with people. the judge will take the side of the person defending themselves against your harassment

in short. think before you speak. or in this forums concern, research before you post

Poor Elwar. Isn't even here to defend himself, and all you want to do is slander him. Don't you feel ashamed?

i have spoken to elwar and he very well knows how i feel about his actions.
maybe you should probably learn more about him and then maybe you will not be defending him like an auto-fan just because you seen him on youtube

by the way written words are not slander.

first official seastead under that name.

The idea(s) conveyed by written words may be slanderous.

oh elwar.. i can already see his plan B. he wants to do a edward snowdon style publicity script making out a country wants to kill him..
but elwar main goal is doing public appearances and ride that money train next.
.. nice braces by the way,
im guessing your publicist advised you to correct your teeth before proper public appearances in the near future

i have been watching elwar for years and seen he was always riding the exhaust trails of big money. trying to seek millions in investments with no real big returns.
seeking double figure millions to buy a boat so 15 people can ave meetings on to discuss next campaign
and even with investments coming in he just used like $30k(doesnt look like 150k costs) for a small pod that he only visits for youtube segments just for promoting..

sorry i just dont see elwar as a true figure head for 'freeing' the planet of corrupt government control of citizens. he is a secret capitalist in libertarian sheepskin

1.
Defamation is an area of law that provides a civil remedy when someone's words end up causing harm to your reputation or your livelihood. Libel is a written or published defamatory statement, while slander is a spoken defamatory statement.

2. there are other sea steads that have been around for decades.
cough 'sealand 1967' cough hundreds of oilrigs

however the pod built by someone else and just used as an occassional holiday hut by elwar does not define the term seastead
it had no water cleaning, no way to grow food, no sanitation system.. it definetly was not made for long term liviing

even under the definition that elwar proposed in many investment pitches it failed to be described as such
and in the definition of what he believes he is being accused of doing and denying he done such shows how he doesnt want to define it as a seastead

it might be worth you really checking things before replying.. because the more you post the more revealing your lack of knowedge becomes