Bitcoin Forum

OP: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5225031.0;all

Archive: https://archive.is/s3bl2

A rough summary of everything wrong with this auction and seller.

1. Self moderated auction thread
2. Attempts to justify trying to modify bid amounts based on what was clearly an invalid and erroneous bid based on the rules in his OP.
3. Accuses me of making threats to him in PM that never happened and he refuses to quote.
4. Posted several of my PMs without permission.
5. Making demands to have transaction information in spite of the fact that I agreed to have the escrow, Minerjones, hold both the payment and reship the bar.
6. Then violates his contractual agreement with me based on his demands for transaction information that were never part of the original agreement contract.

Based on his behavior it is not unreasonable to ask for an escrow. I didn't agree to his choice of escrow, and I picked literally the most trusted escrow on the forum. He is making some strained argument that having my transaction information protects him to manufacture an excuse to violate our contractual agreement.

Since he has already repeatedly demonstrated in this thread he has no concern for my privacy by posting my private messages multiple times without permission, I would say not trusting him with any personal information is perfectly reasonable. The fact is however, he is trusting Minerjones with his funds and with his product. He is literally trusting his word that he will pay him as promised, but some how he can't be trusted without him getting more of my private information.

In summary this entire auction has been a clusterfuck that MagicByt3 refuses to take any responsibility for by accommodating reasonable demands for an escrow and privacy, and instead is opting to argue about things I even already agreed to. Apparently the fact that I even asked him for something he didn't want is a problem.

His last post before he locked his thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5225031.msg53891804#msg53891804



I don't care what you want. You have a contract with me. An auction is an open contract to anyone who wants to make a bid, furthermore you explicitly accepted my bid. The auction didn't work the way you wanted it to so you want to violate the contract. I am not releasing you from your obligations under this contract.

The way you conducted yourself DURING THE AUCTION is what caused me not to trust you. I had no way to know you would behave this way when I placed a bid. You don't get to unilaterally dismiss my bid because you are unhappy, that is not how auctions work. The fact that you fulfilled your obligations for 2 other people is not proof of your reputability, sorry.

Your funds are waiting with literally the most trusted member on the forum, which you implicitly are trusting their word, because he would be holding your funds and your product, but in the same breath you claim you don't trust his word that he has the funds. You keep talking about this auction as if you get to define all of the terms after the fact. You don't. That's not how auctions or contracts work, which is exactly what everyone was trying to tell you when you attempted to enforce invalid bids. You are imposing unreasonable demands that you know I will not agree to in order to purposely violate your contractual obligation to me. This is not acceptable, and I am not going to just go away because you would rather be difficult.

You have funds waiting for you with the most trusted escrow on the forum. All you have to do is ship him the bar and this will be over. I would rather not open a flag for you over this, but if you do not fulfill your contractual obligation to me I will. There is a lesson for you here, and you are going to learn it one way or another. I attempted to handle this in private with much less drama, but before I could even discuss it with you you were posting my PMs all over the thread. I have been exceptionally patient with you throughout this clusterfuck of an auction, but you have exhausted my patience. Ship the bar to Minerjones so we never have to interact again. Please.

I read the thread and I'm still not following why he's refusing to ship (I mean not the made-up excuse of needing your TXID or whatever but the real reason). Your bid was the least controversial of the three, there is no doubt you won. He didn't want escrow, but then agreed to it. He didn't want to ship directly, but then you agreed with shipping to escrow. Seems like a decent compromise.

Is the price too low for him, or is he pissed at you for arguing with him? Not that it matters, he's clearly in the wrong, I'm just curious why he keeps digging his hole.

I think it is a combination of the price not being as high as he hoped, and the fact that I called him out for trying to enforce clearly invalid bids. He knows I won't release my TXID to him, so he probably thinks this is a convenient out for him. Unfortunately for him, I am a huge cunt and I refuse to be out cunted. Especially when I made several attempts so deescalate, handle it in private, and made every reasonable compromise to meet his demands.

I am sure most people think this whole thing is dumb, because it is, but people shouldn't be allowed to act like this without repercussions, otherwise he is just going to do it to the next person he has a disagreement with. IMO it is better to just let him burn himself out in a massive public fireball so he doesn't have the opportunity to do it again. If he was reasonable at any point in this exchange I would have just dropped it, but he insists on being as unreasonable as possible.

Thanks for dragging this into another topic tecshare..

The use of the escrow is to protect the buyer and the seller. 

Tecshare and MJ basically hijacked the sale topic saying who had won and claiming bids were invalid and I was trying to gain extra funds from a user who didn't understand the bidding process.

After that was explained that the bidder had not realized to format of the bidding was 0.01 OPEN and 0.002 on top of the open price making the price 0.012 at this bid I was amicable with the user at every turn and allowed his bid to be closed.

If you read the main topic I expected the price points to be

0.01 (Open)  Bids 0.002

So when the bidder placed his 0.002 bid increment I added to the price of the bar meaning the bar would end up 0.012 BTC.



He then made threats to me about using his reputation to make sure I could never sell on the forum again he also said things like I should be happy with what I got he then continued to make posts in the topic to the effect that I was trying to manipulate the situation which is un-true.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5225031.msg53872237#msg53872237

He also kept pushing this narrative that I was trying to take a payment from this other user this was his view and not fact in any light just because he didn't understand the bidding process I was going for in the topic he used another user as an excuse to try make me out to be some  kind of scammer by the looks of it.   

Now the user in question has indeed replied to techshare and told him that I didn't do any of the things he's clamming about this 0.002 BTC

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5225031.msg53883757#msg53883757

Tecshare then send me a PM saying dew to my conduct he wanted to use the escrow of his choice at my expense now as this was my first time selling here I wanted to be sure about the escrow. 

Most escrow systems will provide the seller proof that the buyer has indeed made payment for the item in bitcoin this could be a TXID of the transaction. Yet I am to just accept without proof the funds are there?

See this post by another user who agrees with me there tactics of escrow fall short of forum practice and general practice.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5225031.msg53886116#msg53886116

Further to this Tecshare requested in a PM to me that I ship to him NOT requiring a signature on delivery and to use the normal postal service I was un-easy to this for a number of reasons

1. I have no proof of payment to the escrow
2. I would have no proof of delivery
3. I stated in my OP heading that Signed for delivery would be required

This would have left me in a position were I would have NO proof of delivery and Tecshare could have easily just told the escrow hey I didn't get my bar and I would have no legs to stand on.

As a new seller I wanted to ensure I was protected thankfully another member stepped in and escrow a deal for Last of the V8's and paid upfront for 1 bar delivery has been successful and my escrow has been released.

Tecshare has bullied me at every turn demanding changes to the way the OP was run and demanding changes to the way I ship my goods.  I am not going to bend over and be bullied by a member who has clearly made it his obsession to make me out to be something I am not.

If anyone reads the topic they will see what I mean by his continued reverting to the 0.002 btc bid by the member and the confusion that supposed how the bidding work..

Tecshare made 2 bids.. 1 Invalid and 1 valid so I am in NO doubt that he understood EXACTLY how the bidding was to work.

Further to this MJ and tecshare attempted to tell people in my topic there bids were invalid this is not there place and I feel that they both attempted to mess my topic up as much as possible.

None of the other members I have dealt with have had a issue only tecshare and going by his history here it look like he's the king of drama's and lording his status and reputation over smaller less known members.. 

Could it also be they saw my new idea as a threat to there silver market?  possible, I mean someone new selling products they didn't think about making could really impact there standing....

Just a after thought.

I'll make my position clear one last time..

I am not happy dealing with tecshare after his actions both in PM and on my topic I feel he bullied the situation to suit his own agenda.
2 others bought from me and received there bars without trouble.
I feel they threatened my reputation to get me to ship under there terms when it was clearly stated the shipping method would require a signature.

I was willing to use the escrow HE chose.
I was willing to ship to MJ if I was furnished with a TXID to show a payment had been made to escrow.  (they both refused)

As far as I am concerned now tecshare has voided the terms of the sale with me by demanding other shipping types and refusing to prove he send escrow money. 

I am a man of my word but I won't be bullied or be held over the coals or have my topics overtaken by people who try to admin my sale without consent.

I have tried very hard to keep everyone happy after the confusion of how the bidding was to work I even made a post to show them how I expect the sale to go down.  Just because something is difference from what your used to dose not make me wrong.

He also then started to claim it was about privacy ect which to me means he didn't read the terms of the sale one bit and just attempted to use a misunderstanding that was nothing to do with him tbh to lord it in the topic.

I do not feel comfortable sending out the last bar now to the escrow for 2 reasons..

1. the escrow gave me a red trust then removed it for whatever reason escrow should be neutral party to me MJ and tecshare are very much working together here.

2. The terms he attempted to set the escrow to would have left me exposed to possible fraud with me having NO way to prove that the bar was delivered,

As of  now I am not happy to deal with Tecshare for HIS own actions and conduct when I have been more than accommodating and explained everything to him he even ignores the others in the topic who agree with me on this matter because he know's he's got the +trust to try bully others.

I have seen 100's of topics here about this guy not 1 of them good in my view.  I have been an outstanding member here helping out where I can with new users or dealing with scammers I am very annoyed that my sale needed up this way but I am only human at the end of the day something this guy can't seem to understand.  He also fails to accept that the bidding by the other user was nothing more than a misunderstanding and is trying to use it as a weapon to get what he wants.

I don't want to deal with him and I don't trust the escrow.  And dew to this I didn't want to go round and round in the topic covering old ground I made it clear to him NO TXID no sale.  but now he's pushed my reasoning to its limits and I have now voided his bid..

If  anyone thinks anything I have done is un-reasonable please let me know but I fell there's more to this that meets the eye..

In concluding this post I want to make some things clear.

I have shipped 2 bars and they have been received

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5225031.msg53890491#msg53890491

As far as I am concerned I have proved I am a man of my word and willing to compromise to a point but I WON'T be forced by ANYONE to be unable to verify a payment before sensing my goods out.. no one would do this..

and secondly this forum has lost its p2p spirit Satoshi would be sad to see this 3rd party bull shit going on, but I understand the need for escrow when it works for BOTH party's not just the buyer.

Thank you

Magic..

Thanks for the pointless screed. Promptly disregarded. Literally no one agrees with you. You have no one to blame for this but yourself. Honor your contractual agreement.

Absolute speculation tecshare is this you now trying to make up more fake points to get people to bite?

There's nothing wrong with the price hence I set the OPEN price to something I WOULD be happy with....

You seem to have some other agenda here so good luck to you I hope you don't act this way to people in real life..

Absolute disgrace..

The only agenda I have is holding you to your contractual agreement. You can end this at any time by shipping to Minerjones. Honor your contractual agreement.

Sorry I don't have to do anything if it's outside the terms of my listing..
And I WON'T be held over the fire by you and your friends tecshare.

You dictated to me what YOU wanted when I questioned it you went on attack mode you have made false claims at every turn and now your posting here rubbish to try get people to bit to YOUR thoughts on the matter and NOT the FACTS!!!

you also wanted me to ship OUTSIDE the terms of the listing so that void's you bid simple..

I have made my position clear and I won't be engaged in any more of your bully tactics on the forum..

Have a nice day.

Magic

Send me proof of the TXID and I will ship your bar to MJ you keep going round in circles and expect me to ship with no proof...

Don't trust..Verify... Simple

You keep claiming I want you to do things outside of your terms. I already agreed you can ship it to Minerjones with all the terms in the OP. Asking you to do something you didn't want to do then agreeing to your terms does not void my bid, sorry. That is not how contracts work. You are arguing about nothing as an excuse to weasel out of your obligations. Honor your contractual agreement.

I asked for proof a payment to the escrow his bar would have been out by now but he kept going on about it's my privacy ect.
He also wanted me to ship outside the terms of the sale where I require a signature on delivery he didn't want this.

I also don't see how the situation is escrow.

If I ship Tecshare the bar Directly! and MJ is "supposed" to be holing the funds and I ship WITHOUT signature on delivery how and I protected?
What proof have I got that the bar made it there?  None..

He only agreed to the escrow being an actual middle man when I said I was not happy shipping without signature.

Every turn he's changed the terms I didn't even offer the sale with escrow and now it's at my cost..

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5225031.msg53886116#msg53886116

If anyone thinks it's unfair for me to be furnished with proof of payment then we cannot deal it's that simple.

Without proof it's like I am sending out my good BLIND to some escrow I have had no dealing with EVER.

Not fair on the seller..

Tecshare if your escrow will prove payment I will ship I have said this 10+ times..

I WON'T SHIP WITHOUT PROOF ESCROW HAS BEEN PAID..

Is that really difficult?  or unfair in any light?

Your bar could have been out the other day with the other but your the one holding this back not me...
Your trying my patience to the max with this and I could just refuse if I don't feel comfortable with the situation that my choice.

Escrow proves funds are there and I ship..
Escrow fails to prove funds the deal is off.

Ball is in your court..


Take it or leave it..

No. Honor your contractual agreement.




All you care about is what serves you. None of your behavior is fair to the buyer. Exchanges go two ways, not one way where you dictate all of the terms after the fact. Auctions have rules, rules which you clearly violated and refuse to admit to.


Who is changing the terms? Looks like you.

OP stated signed delivery was required and Techsare refused am I missing anything else?

You again... -_-

Yeah, you are missing the part where I agreed he could ship to Minerjones with all the signatures he wanted.

You can post what ever you want techshare your the one being unreasonable here..

Can you show me where it says I even accept escrow on my sale?
Can you show me where it says I will SHIP WITHOUT SIGNATURE.

You sir... are the one who changed the terms to YOUR own.

I'm not playing your stupid games tecshare you everyone else has there bars already but your trying your hardest to change the terms to suit you..

If you don't trust me don't deal with me simple.

I have given you a inch and you tried to take a mile with your demands.

You can post all you want about "contractual" agreement but you sir changed it to suit your own needs.

I don't play games and won't be replying to this topic any longer..

My position is clear if I am unable to verify a payment to the escrow I won't ship..

Your call..

Goodnight.

Why would I trust you without using an escrow after the way you conducted your clusterfuck of an auction? Asking for an escrow is not at all unreasonable. Your demands to have transaction information is in fact unreasonable. I have met every inch of my contractual obligations under your auction terms. You already agreed to use Minerjones as an escrow at your expense. I already agreed to you shipping to him meeting your terms for signature requirements. Transaction information was never part of the contract and this is a frivolous demand you are using as pretext to violate your contractual agreement with me under the auction terms. It is unfortunate you are too short sighted to see this is not going to work out well for you at all.

And you missing about 100 point that have been made to you tecshare..

FOR THE 10TH TIME..

I am happy to use escrow I already did with the other 2 bars..

What i'm not happy about is the fact the escrow and you won't provide proof of payment so I am in no mans land..

Prove payment and ill ship to MJ for the 10th time...

Don't trust.. Verify. Simple

GoodNight..

I'm not TECSHARE's friend by any means but it looks to me (as it did to pretty much everyone in your own auction thread) that you're the one stoking the fire.

Your auction format was ludicrous. At one point you seemed to recognize that but now you're trying to justify it again. Let it go. TECSHARE's bid was the only bid on that item anyway, so the format dispute doesn't even matter. He won the item, he paid, ship it. How much simpler can it possibly be? He even agreed to your condition of having the item shipped via escrow. The TXID doesn't matter. The escrow guarantees the payment.

On the other hand, if you want to back out of this deal then just say so, stop clinging to the TXID demand, let MJ return funds to TECSHARE, and get your deserved flag. You'll get it anyway if you don't ship - it's just a matter of time.

Minerjones isn't holding my funds against my will. He will release it at my request, as he should because the seller has not met his obligations. I don't want my funds back though, I want the seller to honor his agreement. Magicbyt3 is literally just arguing with himself about nothing and is the only thing holding up this transaction.

I don't want to back out at all. I have said I am happy to ship to MJ escrow but why did the other all supply TXID's for there escrow but these 2 won't

I also direct you to this post.. where another user agrees with me over the escrow not being correct.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5225031.msg53886116#msg53886116

Your demands are noted and rejected. Honor your contractual agreement.

Your demands are noted and also rejected along with you bid..

No way to verify no sale simple..

The whole point of the escrow is to protect the BUYER & SELLER..

Right now I have to take YOUR word that you send funds to some escrow I have had NO dealing with in the past.
No way to prove there was any transaction so I won't be sending out my product without being able to verify the payment.

No one would do this no one..

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how auctions and contracts work. You don't get to unilaterally dismiss my bid after the fact. You are absolutely protected, by the most trusted member of the forum serving as escrow. Your claims of not being protected are fallacious. Honor your contractual agreement.

What are you talking about... many have used minerjones escrow, he's one of the most trusted here. You already agreed to use him as escrow. If this deal goes through, at one point he'd be holding BOTH the item and the funds so you have to trust him regardless of any TXIDs. Just drop this nonsense and ship it. No need to waste everyone's time on something so trivial.

Sent to MJ escrow... I await a reply.

Very...

He is good at manipulating situations with his rep from what I see too Vod.

I have sent a message to the escrow lets leave this here until I get a reply and I aim to have the bar out on Monday to the escrow.

What a horrible experience this has been It will be the last time I try do anything for this community again.

Are there rules I can read about these contracts and bids on the forum? I'd like to know where it says a seller can't cancel someone else's bid?

No there are no "official" rules other than the rules he and his other silver seller buddy's try impose on a new seller.

Yes, there are. It is called contract law. Auctions also have their own set of legal obligations. This is the case on and off of the forum. This is not some magical place where laws cease to exist.



Wonderful. Thank you.

Let's just resolve this ASAP...I'm about done with the whole community at this point..

You're literally an idiot if you think posting on a forum holds you to any legal obligation lmfao

Magic, just ship him the bar. You can trust MJ, regardless of how you feel about the txid.... This insanity has gone on long enough. If you don't get your BTC, I'll fucking pay you instead, how's that? ::)

You are literally an idiot, then. When it is in writing, it doesn't matter if it is a text, a social media post or written on good old fashioned paper. A contract is a contract.

He already agreed so fingers crossed it works out for all involved.


A trade is a trade regardless if it's on a forum or in Micky D's parking lot. Granted it's unlikely they'd go to court for $100 but it would still be a breach of contract to not honor the deal.

Contract laws vary country to country. Exactly whose contract law are we supposed to follow over the internet?

The law in any of the jurisdictions where either party resides, I believe. Perhaps it wouldn't be worth the time and expense to actually seek legal remedies. However, I think someone that has established a good reputation under one identity will have better luck than someone not honoring their deals and becoming fly-by-night newbies.

I don't really know what you mean by this but I have send the escrow a message and await his reply.

Also a contract is only valid if BOTH party's agree on the terms and it's clear I don't agree but i'm being forced to agree by mob rule..

Lets not make this into another long battle.

I have agreed to send even though I have no proof the escrow holds the funds.

You can't expect a new seller to blindly accept what is being said about some escrow I never even knew about till the other day without verification.  

I'm going by the laws of bitcoin here with don't trust verify but that no longer seems to be valid here...

** Edit **

PS I don't have any noob alt's to post with so if that's what your trying to say then you sir are very wrong.  who ever that is posting is doing so of there own accord and nothing to do with me

Finally something useful to see. I had to read all the posts made on this topic and all these were really unnecessary magic. Yes, some of your concerns looked valid (Sign on delivery) but when the escrow is holding both money and the item then it's not very necessary.
And talking about MJ - I do not think a single user in the forum who knows MJ will ever doubt about his escrow service. Besides  owlcatz gone extra mile. So smile and complete everything from your side that needed to close this deal.

Cheers ,

Edit:
Sorry that you are feeling this way but when you are accepting an escrow service then you really have to trust him. You will also not need to blindly accept something but you can just see some of the reference feedback about the escrow here MJ of course.

Did you miss the part where he wanted me to send direct to him not the escrow? without proof of payment to the escrow?

It was me who said no we use the middle man for both the bar and the funds..

he wanted the bar sent direct to him without signature. without proof of payment to escrow or anything..

That was the issues...

Water under the bridge. A compromise has been achieved, you're shipping to the escrow. Just focus on completing this deal - it's all in your hands now.

Agreed.. Will post update once bar is in the post.

Yes I missed if I am being honest with you. May be I read but did not actually found it a point to be taken.

Here is an incident where how I felt in a seriation and I hope this will help you to understand what actually going on in there from physcholocsl points.

A guy came to me for a collateral loan and it was around something 0.04 BTC or so but he was insisting of using an escrow for the alt he will put as colletaral. I really felt annoyed coz I know if anyone would see my history then they would not bother for a third party escrow to hold for only 0.04 BTC loan.

If you see the trading history TECSHARE has then I am pretty sure no one will be much worried about sending him anything. I am sure asking for escrow and all this just annoyed TECSHARE and it's just a natural human reaction.

Take it easy. I am sure end of the deal you will feel happy.

Edit: you are doing the right thing that you needed to do without being much worried at the beginning.

Cheers,

Thanks for the advice I did say why not use wasabi or joinmarket and send a UTXO that was privacy orientated because as it stands if he sends a UTXO to MJ the MJ forwards it to me where is the "privacy" there?  there's none I could still look back not that I am even interested in looking back.

Privacy tools are available if the buyer wanted to mask his UTXO to the escrow as it stands I see no privacy with him sending it to escrow then escrow forwarding it to me I still see the last transaction on chain.

Let's just move on bud. Don't take much stress. Once you get the postal address from MJ then just post the item. You will be fine.

Thank you and also to everyone who gave me some advice on this matter.

I look forward to Tecshare getting his bar and this saga being over.

Two happy customers.. One to go..

Magic.

First: the auction terms were terrible (see unedited post (http://loyce.club/archive/posts/5381/53818014.html)):
My first impression was reading: "Starting Bid 0.002".
What MagicByt3 wrote can easily be misinterpreted. And that could easily have been prevented:

No, not really, as explained above.

How can you not see this is far from intuitive?

I've never used escrow, so I'm not familiar with "how things run", but I would have had the same expectation as MagicByt3. What's the point of using an escrow if the escrow doesn't check both parts of the trade?

Hypothetical: even with signed delivery, what happens if the seller ships a brick? It's still going to be the seller's word against the buyer's word, which negates the use of escrow.

Based on the PM (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5225031.msg53886155#msg53886155), it's because of his privacy. I get that for the signed post, but the TXID will become obvious after the escrow forwards funds to the seller. Unless the escrow uses different funds and also acts as a mixer, but my assumption would be input > output (minus fees).

Agreed!

Agreed!

This sums it up nicely. I've read most of the topic, but this filled far more pages than needed.

I'm glad this sorta came to an end already :)

Thank you LoyceV,  I just was not happy sending the bar direct to the buyer without signed for delivery as I would have had no leg to stand on if he claimed it didn't arrive or it was not as described this was the main issue.

I accept my terms should and could have been much clearer I do accept that was my fault there was confusion over the bidding process but I never tried to do what Techshare is saying by trying to gain additional funds in my view the bids were correct and I have made a detailed post on this but again accept it may not have been a conventional way to sell here on the forum.

I am only human and people make mistakes I am doing what the community asks of me by shipping now to the escrow.

I have taken the advice and I will ship there's not really anything more to say on this matter.

Thanks for the advice.

Magic

So much wasted Internet. 

Bar sent to MJ escrow delivery should take around 5 days but I expect it to be sooner.

I have given both MJ and Tecshare the tracking information and photos of the item in the post office.

I look forward to receiving my payment from MJ upon delivery.

Thank you

Magic

** Edit **

I also await a review from Last of the v8's when his bar arrives I was informed it was shipped from the escrow to him today..

It will be good when your customers confirm receipt of your bars. However any positive trust score you get out of this auction will be overshadowed by what happened during the auction and before you shipped.

If you have other items you want to sell, you can auction them off, and if you do, you should take this as a learning experience and refine how you conduct business.

Good luck.

I already have conformation of the first 2 being received one was bought by the escrow agent and the 2nd is being re-shipped by him.

I still don't think what I asked for was uncalled for.

 I have no previous dealing with either the buyer or the escrow service.

I was asked to ship direct to the buyer outside the terms of the listing, without any proofs if me requiring a signature on delivery as per the listing was not acceptable then the buyer should not have bid.   

The escrow was also the buyer choice.

All I asked for was proof that the escrow was indeed holding the funds and all this could have been avoided.

I took responsibility for the poor outline of the auction terms but nothing underhand was attempted at any point.

End of the day a contract is only valid if Both party's agree on it not just one I have bowed to peer pressure and shipped without proof and on the "word" of the community.

Anyway item is now shipped I doubt I will conduct any sales here again the experience has been horrible from a simple mistake into 2 super threads where I have been accused of underhanded tactics.

Shame I had some nice plans ahead for some more custom stuff but I doubt I will go ahead with them now.

Magic

Most people were super helpful to you in the auction thread, trying to explain to you how your terms can be misinterpreted and how you could conclude the auction amicably, but unfortunately you ignored most of that advice. TECSHARE is an asshole to everyone so don't take it personally, and in this case he had every right to be like that, seeing how your behavior did not inspire trust.

You can't really expect to impose your own rules when you start business in a new place. For example on ebay you'd probably have the funds on hold for 21 days for the initial trades on a new account, and if you dragged your feet with shipping you'd probably have a negative rating already. No hand-holding and personalized advice for sure.

Here at least mistakes can be excused if you make an effort to learn from them.

Advice noted from all and I do appreciate the people who stuck up for me and saw things from my side not just one sided.

I did take advice and I have done what was asked not much else to say on the matter I hope the buyers like there bars.

Even thought I am proving I am trust worthy I don't see the community being so understanding over the matter.

I half expect more negative rating from "friends" like I have been getting already.

Magic

You have not received any negative feedback.

my apologizes,  neutral it should have said.

anyway let's move on from this please guys the deal is done we await the buyer's review!

Thanks again for the advice both in PM's and via the topics.

Magic

@MagicByt3

If there's one lesson you should take away from this fiasco it's that zeros matter!  0.1, 0.01, and 0.001 are not the same thing.  When you use them interchangeably people get confused.  In one of your posts you seemed to leave out a zero, referring to one bid as "0.1."  I didn't see anyone bidding that high.  In another you seemed to suggest that jimjam123 bid "0.02."  Again, nothing in the thread or jimjam123's post history corroborates that statement.

Tecshare's frustration seemed to only exacerbate your tendency to make mistakes, which only further frustrated Tecshare.  In the future try to be more careful about what you write, and try to be very clear in your instructions.  Accepting bids of 0.002 while your starting price is 0.01 is quite confusing.  It seems that you were expecting people to understand that you interpret that as a total bid of 0.012.  That's not the way things are done, and only fueled the participants confusion.

Not true at all. People who act with respect, honesty, and decency I try my best to reciprocate as much as I am able to. People who don't take responsibility for their mistakes, attack, or are dishonest, I will beat my skull against theirs until one of our skulls are caved in. Don't mistake lack of a dependence on conflict avoidance with being an asshole to everyone, because it is simply not true.

Avoiding conflict at all cost IMO is more harmful than seeing things through even if it pisses some people off, because it is the only way things are changed some times. Magicbyt3 simply was intent on having his tit for tat, inspite of my several efforts to deescalate. Hopefully he learned something and will continue participating in the community with a newfound recognition of the importance an agreement holds here. As a place that is heavily populated with pseudonymous people, really all anyone has here is their word, so it is more important here than most places.

Techy, you will not get to decide who is honest or respectful until you show those traits yourself.  And what's decent to you may not be to me.

Can you confirm I have sent you the tracking info Tecshare please?

I have accepted my mistake's and I have done what is being asked of me what else can I do?

I have alt accounts attacking me in my own topic I have had to lock it down.

Tecshare I have sent to the escrow at my cost and also my cost to reship.. again let's not keep things going here. people make mistakes I have accepted that I made one and Jimjam also has made a post about it to as far as I am concerned the matter is over I await reply's for tecshare and Last of the V8's.

I hope they enjoy there bars.

Sorry for being human and making a mistake.. I'm sure we've all done it at some point.

Magic

Yes, I have received tracking info. You did the right thing, eventually... but everything in between was pointless. I would be a lot more willing to give you credit for admitting your mistakes if you had done it of your own volition rather than after the forced pulling of teeth. I am not going to antagonize you. All I wanted was for you to learn something out of this whole fiasco, otherwise it would have eventually been some one else if it wasn't me.

Lesson has been learned and advice has been taken on board. 

And I am sorry for the inconvenience caused.

People make mistakes it's not how you get knocked down it's how you get back up that matters.

I hope we can overlook this as a learning process as a new seller here now I know much more about the way to conduct business here.

Please let me know when you get your bar.

Thanks

Magic

Apology accepted. No hard feelings. Will do, thanks.

One of the most important things to do when conducting business with someone is to set clear expectations. As long as everyone is on the same page as to the specific terms of a transaction, you can set whatever condition you want.

I can say that I have never heard of any auction being held in a way such that bidders state the amount they want to increase the previously high bid, not here or any other auction transaction. The only exception to this is that some websites may offer bidders the ability to quickly create a bid based on the previous high bid, and an increment, however the new total bid will be displayed before the bid is placed. Some of your other requests are also not in line with how business is typically conducted in the forum.

If you wanted to set certain conditions on your auction that are different than how most auctions are handled, that would be totally fine, but only as long as the conditions are disclosed before you receive any offers (bids). Setting unusual conditions may cause some people to not want to bid on your auctions, or maybe your potential customers will be aware of your conditions and decide your conditions are not a bid deal.

I can certainly understand how someone might see some of your requests to not be unreasonable, so if you set some of these conditions in any future auction you hold, perhaps most people will accept your conditions.

I have traded with some people who had strange conditions on doing business before. I found some of the conditions strange, and honestly kinda annoying, but I was aware of them ahead of time, conducted the transaction successfully, and everyone involved was happy.

IMO the main source of the confusion is MagicByt3 was looking at the auction like a regular sale. In a normal sale, you are free to set whatever conditions you like pretty much at any point and the buyer can take a flying leap if they don't want to meet them and the seller doesn't want to accommodate.

In an auction, you are legally setting up an open offer to contract. When a buyer bids, it constitutes acceptance of the terms set forth in the auction listing (contract). At that point both the seller and bidder are bound by the terms.

This is why everyone was so adamant about you completing the exchange. To not do so would be a violation of that contract, and essentially documented evidence that you don't honor your agreements. This would essentially be reputation death here, as opposed to something which could potentially be something with legal consequences outside of the forum, or if larger values were at stake. Here are some details if anyone is interested.

https://contracts.uslegal.com/elements-of-a-contract/

There are additional regulations specific to the auction process, also a few things probably unique to the forum here. I know this sounds a bit like over kill, and people are unlikely to take any kind of legal action over auctions here for the most part, but these rules are the only way we can maintain any kind of order here regarding the auction process.

My bar came just now exactly as arranged, and this all seems to be working out. I'll post in Magic's thread shortly.

A sweet ending I would say?
I see Last of the V8s already got the parcel and things moved positive with TECSHARE too. I am pretty sure he will receive his parcel too. I have also seen frustration form magic that he will not sell here anymore but the frustration is no more which is a good thing.

Overall, everything was just okay and you both (TECSHARE and magic) just had some hard time to understand each others.

Bar received, it is as described. There were no further difficulties.

Fantastic!
Where is magic? :-p

I'm here.

Thanks Techshare! 

I am glad you got the bar in good order and thank you to MJ Escrow for being the middle man.

And thank you to the community for your advice and help along the way @minerjones, @Lastofthev8's @Corrosive  and anyone else who gave advice.

Magic

Your reputation isn’t completely ruined. If you came back for another auction, stating that you understand why your auction caused so much confusion, and that this time around it will be an auction using the same format as everyone else uses..that will go a long way.

Perhaps utilize MinerJones as your shipping arm.

Do this and I’d completely support you and so would many others.  Dont make that your first and last sale. After a successful auction or two this will all be forgotten about and behind you.

Thank you I have been talking with MJ escrow about a second sale where I will call upon the experience of MJ to conduct the next one thank you for your input and I'm sure in time we can put this behind us I'm sure everyone was happy with the silver and I learned the process here so next time round thing should be super smooth.

Magic