Bitcoin Forum

After read this thread Mixers to be banned (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5476162.0), there's a question popped into my head.

Which site or forum that these centralized mixers will promote their projects? :D

Or these mixers will don't have any medias to promote except volunteering by themselves? maybe hire someone who willing to shills/spams?

AFAIK there's no rule to promote other site or forum in Bitcointalk, maybe if someone know about decentralized place, feel free to suggest and it might help the mixers. ;D

Darknet sites, probably?

Drug-related forums, marketplaces, etc...

Basically: legit users will have a harder time finding legit ones; criminals will still have access to it. :P

This is just it that you said. What I think more about what is going to happen is that legit users may not know about mixers again except the one users, but new users that have intention of criminality will still know what mixers are and they will still use it. The criminals will still see ways to do their work.

Legitimate mixers won't have any issues promoting their services in various platforms. There are social medias whic everyone uses. Plus, a person who knows what a mixer is, definitely knows how to google search a legitimate mixing service.

I mentioned in on other thread, that they could at least make a PR, blog posts, vlogs, and other crypto-related websites that accepts ad posting on their sites. Since there is no paying signature campaign in other forums, say darknet forums, so i don't think they will keep promoting there like pay per post.

They can create an account there for regular posting but there's no way they will be accepted to create ads for promotions.

You would be surprised.

The reason so many scam ones exist (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5381839.0) is because they make money. :D

There are other blog and media platforms, Review sites, other forums etc

Bitcointalk signature advertising was quite unique for them, but there are other places the mixers can advertise from. If you want to prove this, just Google up one of those old mixers that was not advertising in the forum like cryptomixer

Google is not banning mixers and platforms that review and advertise mixers so a user will just have to type the word mixer, unless Google filters out mixer keywords and platforms that advertise and promote mixers, you can still find them here in the mainnet not only on the darknet and other online communities discuss and promote mixers like Reddit.

Maybe in the future when US authorities request the major search engines to ban Mixers from showing up in search queries and request domain registrar and hosting to ban mixers that will be the time that we will not see mixers on the internet only on the darknet.

Maybe they will turn to forums > bitcoinforum.com but I'm not sure the mixer will do promotions there.  ;D

After knowing this maybe the mixer platforms will try to find a way to advertise again with some other forums or they can hire influencers to promote.

In the future we will know they announced about this advertisement, or maybe they will switch from mixer to BTC > XMR > BTC exchange platform as mentioned in that thread.

For legitimate mixers it will be much more difficult to promote their services. It's not just Bitcointalk, but in general, mixers  now aren't welcomed on most of mainstream websites. I'm not sure that they can buy ads on Google, Youtube, Twitter or Facebook. Maybe Telegram is still an option for them, but when there is so many scams there, it's far from being perfect place. Same about Darknet. I'm sure that number of scams related with mixers is going to increase significantly, but as I understand that you won't be even allowed to make scam accusation about mixer on Bitcointalk.

You have way too good opinion about people.

There should be mixers monitoring sites like BestChange. So everyone would get the services from there, but it will be hard since Mixer won't offer any affiliates for that. However, they can still promote mixers in other forums, or they might run ads where it is accepted. But for users who want to use real services, they would be hard to find. Scammers will take advantage of disabling mixer services. Also, there are many mixer campaigns ongoing, and many forum users are related to them. So everyone will lose their campaigns. But we have to follow the forum rules anyway.

This is a good idea! Not really sure but I believe there are some mixers which have affiliate programs and reward users for attracting new customers.
Maybe someone will do it for free without expecting any return or can add an address for donations!
The real question is where the monitoring site owner is going to promote this website? He definitely won't be able to promote it on this forum as even linking to a website that links to a mixer is prohibited according to the new rules.

Interesting. I believe some of such site exist in the darkweb. The problem is finding them.

The clearnet is just a tip of the iceberg compared to the dark web. The problem with the dark web is that it's just too wild for a normal user. Lots of all kinds of things there.

They would be forced to create affiliate programs since there are no more bitcointalk signature campaigns. In fact, I think I have seen some mixers with affiliate programs.

Also, just because Bitcointalk has banned signature campaigns for mixers does not mean an end to them on the clearnet. There are sites like Quora, Reddit, guru99.com, YouTube, Yahoo Finance etc

It's not a question of where to promote as long as Google is not banning Bitcoin mixers and the authorities are not requesting or instructing domain registrar and hosting to host these Bitcoin mixers they will continue to exist, Bitcointalk is just one of the platforms out of hundred platforms like Reddit, forums and reviewers they will still have a presence, the question is how users are going to find out about which Bitcoin mixers are legit and are not because Bitcointalk is a place where you can discover legit websites.
There are so many fake mixers on the internet and Bitcointalk is a place where they expose, because this is a discussion community their presence will still be felt because it has a huge market

Words spread fast these days. How do you think did the Lazarus group hear about Blender, Tornado Cash, Chipmixer, Sinbad, and others? Bitcointalk.org? I don't think so.

It's not as if this forum is the last bastion for all these players, not even in the surface web. And the surface web isn't probably the playground for the likes of this group. The deep web and the dark web are a wider playground for them. I think news about a new mixer would spread out pretty quick in those areas.

I have some spare hosting capacity at Hostinger that I could allocate for this project, but I need to check to make sure my hosting account won't get banned for that (LOL!)

Obviously, no links to dead mixers, no Sinbad or other darknet sites, only the mainstream mixers.

I'm a bit concerned about posting an affiliate link though, because that opens up a whole new avenue of litigation (that merely advertisement does not).

I do not think that ads on Google will ban such services, and perhaps to a lesser extent some social media, but in the end the forum was the best place because of the presence of a large database and the ease of making payments in Bitcoin, so that there is a guarantee of some kind of privacy, while most other places will need to pay either through traditional methods or The database will be smaller than the current one.


The most important question is, will some mixing services make fundamental modifications to be compatible with the changes that have occurred to the forum?

No, mixers offer affiliate marketing. For example, YoMix and Tumber have an affiliate marketing that you can check on their website.

To be honest, I think that Lazarus group is a fictional group. It doesn't make sense for North Korea to have so talented hackers, even if they are protected by the government, it still doesn't make sense if we keep in mind the philosophy of that country. Also, Lazarus group has so much money and so many talented people, they could run their own mixer/coinjoin services instead of using someone else's.

Hostinger is not a good idea, have much more look in depth. There are tons of pirate websites in Russia and it looks like Russian government is more than open to allow someone to host something that has a negative impact or is against the US policy. It would be wiser to use Russian local host that will allow this but it wont' be easy to find if you don't understand Russian.

It's a bold statement to say no Sinbad or other darknet sites. In the end, every mixer will get the label that Sinbad got recently. It's me who thinks that I shouldn't be punished if I want to protect my privacy because others abuse this service.

There are few decentralized place such as Nostr. Although i've no idea how mixers should promote their service on such place while remain on-topic on place they visit.


It wouldn't be fun job for those who tasked to perform SEO, they'll have to compete with other and fake mixers for top search result while remain looking convincing.

I have not found a clearnet forum that is worthy of being a competitor of bitcointalk except reddit.

I kind of agree with this, I think it's just a result of investigators' inability to track crimes, why not just say that these criminals are in extreme areas that they can't access. Or (random thingking), it's actually a concocted "project" to confiscate the multimillion dollar money resstrained in a mixer.

As long as they have a market they will continue to exist and as long as there are communities and platforms where they can drop and lay out their mixing service, mixer users will look for them, the only problem users will face is finding the legit Bitcoin mixer to fake ones, in the case of Sinbad the issue is there are too many fake sites and phishing sites imitating them.

If you Google the word Bitcoin mixer you will see many reviewers and bloggers, reviewing and blogging about them they will always have platforms to advertise as long as there are platforms that will accept payment to advertise and review their service, if the authorities become aggressive in persecuting these mixers that will be time that their visibility will be limited.

And as long as the general belief is Crypto mixers are not inherently illegal, and as long as there's a market for this tool.

The ban of Mixers will expose the mixers to other alternatives ways of marketing and this time, it might be exploited for negative reasons.

Firstly, the chief eason why it's been banned might become the major reason why it will be accommodated elsewhere.

The concerns stated by the Feds have further opened up channels through which it can be used. Most people didn't know that mixers existed in the first place. And now they know it can also be used for negative reasons, this is more than an awareness campaign if you ask me

Isn't Russia trying to pass a regulation to require people to submit their ID before they can buy a VPS?

Russia is Russia. Russia isn't trying to pass any regulation, if Putin wants, it will be done without like trying to get votes :D Also, if you know someone and can pay, you can feel free to bypass the law. Russia is not Denmark, Norway or Sweden. What do you think, will Russian pirate websites go down if they require from people to submit their ID before they can buy a VPS? There are professional studios in Russia that make dubs on pirated content. No offense but Russia is really a different beast when it comes to laws and law protection :D.

Yeah I understand the mixers can still promote their projects through Google ads, social medias, someone else articles etc, but unfortunately I don't think they're legit. They're not like Bitcointalk when there's someone get scammed, people will know if the site is scam. They can use trustpilot or attacking their social medias, but I don't trust stranger.

If the site is using weird domain e.g. g00dmixer.com or greatmlxer.com, I know it must be phishing.

But if the domain looks legit enough e.g. goodmixer.com or greatmixer.com, I have no way to make sure it's legit or scam except they're a copycat.

Interesting, but I don't really sure if such place can be used to promote a project, not user friendly and much more like discussing a news. If I want to add, maybe Stacker News is another option.

Probably x.com or Facebook, Google ads?
No? why not? As far as I can see, those services do not even verify what they show in their ads. There was a thread in this forum where someone posted that x.com approved scam or phishing ads. I have seen many times that they do not verify the services. Scammers promote their services through social media. They care about money only.

So, as long as mixers have money to advertise, it won't be hard to continue advertising. But the problem they may face is, they have to find a targeted audience. Everyone is not Bitcoin users on social media.

I've seen some recommendations to go to the altcointalks.com forum.
This is fun, bitcoin services are moving to the altcoin forum, while on the Bitcoin forum, we can't defend against alt/nft/token spam.


I don't know how this will be feasible, because each of them has forbidden words in the domain name. mixtum, unijoin, mixero, tumbler, yomix... The only thing is that they do everything from the beginning, which means throwing away everything they have invested in their brand so far.

Interestingly, one of the few whose name was not associated with the Bitcoin mixer is Sinbad, who was sanctioned.

Where to promote BTC mixers?
Forums like Cracked.io and Nulled.io(or even hackforums.net). The internet is full of blackhat/hacking/cracking forums.
Discord servers. Telegram groups. Social media profiles on Instagram, X, Facebook. Darkweb directories.
Why do you even care about the promotion of BTC mixers? The owners of those mixers will definitely find a clever way to promote them.
The problem is that nobody would be able to prove the legitimacy of those mixers. Most of them will end up being exit scams and some of them might even be controlled by FBI/CIA.
Or maybe it's time for the Bitcoin mixers to die and all the online criminals will just move to private altcoins like monero.

I joined some forums but Bitcointalk is the best. I like it interface and simplicity than other forums, that is first impression and I never like other forums because of their interfaces and too many ranks, icons that looks very messy. Next is more important, quality posters are in Bitcointalk and other forums can not compete with it.

If you mention about altcoinstalks.com forum, why don't mention about Bitcoingarden forum?
I don't like it too but I summon it here because the admin and owner of Bitcoingarden has an account on Bitcointalk and he is still actively. Maybe waiting for chances to get some prominent members from Bitcointalk to Bitcoingarden.  :D

This user S3cco (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=199973)

Probably websites with most traffic, but it's their problem to solve.
I speculated that someone will fork bitcointalk forum and move it on different domain, maybe even onion link.
That doesn't mean that anyone should ever use same login details like in bitcointalk forum if that ever happens.

Have you ever seen something like this advertised on google ads?
I almost never see any ads when I browser internet because I use uBlockOrigin and/or DNS blocker, but I saw fake scam mixers being pushed on top of search before.

Speaking of other forums, Royse777 is planning to move one of their campaigns in another platform


My guess is it's either on altcointalks or bitcoingarden. I'm not on other forums but perhaps I'll check them out and test the waters. I remember visiting other forum/s yeaaaars ago, there wasn't much activity for stuff I'm interested on but perhaps things have changed now (or will change?).

It'll be interesting to see how this will all play out  :D

I am being honest here; I have never seen any mixer ads on Google or Facebook. But I have seen a lot of phishing websites, Ponzi scheme websites were on sponsored slots. Which means those were promoted by paying to the platform. If you talk about a search result, fake websites often appear in the first result, and I don't think Google cares about it.

Usually, I do not use adblockers, and I never needed them because I do not browse the internet for any reason. I mostly spend my time here and sometimes on Facebook and Twitter.

Maybe real mixers did not need to promote their service on those platforms. But, if they want, they might be able to do it as long as they have money.

I have launched a mixer directory site: mixhub.to (https://mixhub.to) / yroltzbszl45er3ii2fhwt4grrcy3mqhsyovveufuhtyqi5oswpu2uid.onion (http://yroltzbszl45er3ii2fhwt4grrcy3mqhsyovveufuhtyqi5oswpu2uid.onion)

Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5476445.0

It has the following features:

• Registering and commenting as a Bitcointalk user (in fact the only way to post comments)
• Mixer admin access
• Support ticketing system for data suggestions

The platform already got 3 mixer reps registered and verified today and I expect almost all the listed mixers have their reps onboarded by the end of this month.

If they will move on another forum, yeah there could be a rise of the traffics there due to the promotion but it won't be for long. They will just be dissatisfied with the result because Bitcointalk is still different entirely from the other existing bitcoin forums.

And if they're going to do that with the social medias, there's a bigger tendency that they might get locked up due to these centralized social media platforms.

So, like what's said they're likely go to the darknet / deep web.

It looks great but why are you including Bitcoin addresses in that list?

I don't think these are donation addresses or anything, and also, each user gets their own address for mixing. Because if that wasn't the case then we all know what happens next (for those who don't: trivial identification of which users sent funds to a mixer). So I don't see the need for it.

There are platforms indeed that are available for making such promotions if they so wish, but there's this certainty that they can achieve the same result they have been having while on bitcointalk, platforms like cryptotalk may be available for them, despite that they may but experience the level of moderation they would have expected, some mixers may also change their decisions in continuation of mixing service and go for something else when the pressure is too much on regulations from governments.

That site is no way in compare to other crypto-related forums and its considered as dead, almost no new post there upon checking it. Bitcoingarden or altcointalk and reddit is much more considerable than that cryptotalk.

Bookmarked! but could you add fee rates plus minimum deposit amount as well?


Most likely for the signed messages/letter of guarantee. I checked a couple of letter of guarantees I had and they matched.

The same I see Bitcoingarden forum looks quiet visitors and only a few active posts today means this forum can not be compared with bitcointalk and obviously the difference is too striking.

While altcointalk seems to be filled with spammers and duplicate accounts, just visiting altcointalk there is a Hhampuz account fraudster by launching a freebitcoin signature campaign.  ;D

I'm sure one day they will find a good forum platform for mixer promotion.

But i wonder how many people or user of those website actually care about their privacy? At least on this forum, we know some member claim they take privacy seriously (some even on paranoid level).

Well, yeah it looks like it, and yeah it's given, no forum can be compared to this forum, even the forum of bitcoin.com that was recently stopped its operation, i mean a year or two years ago i guess.

There should be someone who are into it too, but that's something to be speculated, i knew some users here have accounts there as well.

Is this forum the center of the internet universe? Of course not, which means that there are countless possibilities that mixers are already using, and now they will be additionally motivated to explore some new ones. As things have turned out, I would not only focus on currently banned services, but also on the fact that we can expect that in the future any service that does not have KYC and can in any way serve for illegal activities will be banned on this forum.

I have no doubt that someone will come up with the idea and make bitcointalk V2, of course in such a way that they will not have to be afraid of Big Brother and the consequences resulting from their actions.

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2023/12/06/NpY1f.jpeg

How can you say that sinbad currently has ACTIVE status when both of their website domains are seized and service is shut down?
Even if they start service again I doubt they are going to use the same name, like they previously changed the name from blender.
I think that even their telegram channel is gone.

Interestingly it seems everyone is thinking that this is the center of the internet universe. People are thinking it's the dead end for mixers. They will find a suitable place. I don't think this forum is the only place for them to advertise. They already are advertising in different platforms or how are they making their money?

I completely forgot about Bitcoingarden forum. I have account there, they used to send email newsletter once in month, but now I haven't noticed it for a while.
But other forums can't be seriously considered as alternative platforms for advertising. Look at Bitcoingarden forum - what's the point to advertise there when there isn't much activity. I don't even talk about Cryptotalk - it's completely dead spam forum, except Russian board where there is still some activity.

That's not an argument as nothing can be compared to bitcointalk. I think those companies(mixers) that want to continue to run their campaigns will find other way but even if they launch it with those alternative forums, they'd find little to no success there.

Maybe or they'll keep their presence hidden from the clearnet and will have to stay on the dark shadows of the underground forum websites that can't be tracked(?).

Because the mixer's admin logged in here on 30th made a post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5416985.msg63244945#msg63244945) promising an update, but then theymos banned them and locked the topic. Some people said their channel was active after 30th and there is a new .onion link, however, since I don't use Telegram I couldn't confirm that. I've set the state to 'SEIZED' while there is no information on a new .onion.

Other forums such as altcoinstalks are starting to get crowded, some of the old forum members have started to teleport to other forums (altcoinstalk) see the picture below is no longer familiar some names have registered there, so it is likely that mixer advertising will be there.

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2023/12/07/Newab.png

Royse has also launched a mixero signature campaign on altcoinstalks and they will start the campaign from December 31st but the thread has been launched today.

You can see the thread here: https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=312833.0

Our managers are also discussing or considering continuing the campaign on bitcoingarden and altcoinstalks, this is just waiting for the agreement of the owners and managers.

The wage rate in the new version of the Mixero campaign that Royce launched today on altcointalk is very low, and I do not think that anyone will be encouraged to join it. $1 per post, with an increase in the minimum number of posts per week (30 posts).
If Altcointalk is the best forum in the market in terms of activity and traffic after BitcoinTalk, then it cannot be an alternative to it as an advertising market on which advertising campaigns are able to achieve the best results. Perhaps some companies will be encouraged by the idea of moving the campaign to another forum, but this is only as an experiment and I do not think they will continue with this option for a long time.

It's justified if you ask me; I hadn't heard of Altcointalks till now, so I'm guessing it's nowhere as popular as Bitcointalk, and its userbase must be far smaller. From a quick look-around I did, it's certainly not as active, and this probably justifies the lower pay. I don't think I'd bring myself to change forums to join a signature campaign, especially with such a petty amount of money compared to the standards we're used to here, but also because the other forums that have been mentioned here don't inspire me.

Some services will certainly move to other forums, but they're not receiving anywhere close to the traffic we're receiving, so I have my doubts regarding their advertising efficiency.

Wow this is really interesting, they might can't compete this forum, but having signature campaign obviously will increase the traffic especially if there are more projects are joining to run a signature campaign.

Yeah most of the usernames are really familiar, but I'm not yet see the "big guys" in that forum or they might never ever want to join on there.

Forget that bud, the big names you are looking for are probably all there already, but you won't know, many of them are already well established on that forum even before now, so, you don't expect their names to appear in the list of new sign-ups.

For example, I have been a users in altcoinstalk since 2020, that is why my name isn't captured on that list, I believe same also, is it with the big names you are looking for, they are all there already, and for those who are already there, they will later on join quietly, at their own convinient time.

There are already 4 pages of applications for signature campaign there, so there's obviously interest despite the lower rate. Keep also in mind that on altcointalk there is a "teleport" option so when you create a new account, you can simply sort of transfer your bitcointalk rank so you don't have to start from scratch.

Another thing, just few years ago $50 per week was a bitcointalk signature campaign standard so for many people what altcointalk offers is not bad at all, especially if you see it as side gig, next to the one on bitcointalk.

---

I wonder if Twitter allows mixers promotion as at the moment that's the most popular platform for crypto advertisement.

Don't know if it will be a competitor to bitcointalk, but imo that will never happen as bitcointalk will remain the main forum for bitcoin discussions etc.

It was also said by the admin of Altcoinstalks that the forum is not a replacement but an escape for the repressive community, maybe you can see the new policy here: https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=312821.msg1452562#msg1452562

It is possible that the forum's big contributors will but here and never teleport, but now we know enough that some users have started to enter the Altcoinstalks forum.

admin of that forum is very accomodating. anyone who wants to teleport, the admin can do it in less than an hour. if mixers are not welcome here anymore altcoinstalk will take them. although they may not haave a huge number of visitors a month, it will eventually increase when more users are going there.

kind of an active forum when there are tons of logged in users.  once this forum becomes popular too, they will screen advertisers as well.

You are right, altcoinstalk have been from way back, Infact, let me confess that I actually started with that forum, I was like the second or third person that signed up on that forum when they launched newly, the admin made me a global moderator back then, but due to lack of activity on the forum, I stopped logining in there, and 2020 when I returned back on that forum, they have achieved a lot and I discovered that I can no longer remember my username, nor the password or the email address I signed up with, I had to create a new account which Is the one I am currently using.

From my long experience on altcoinstalk, the admin is indeed a very good person, a fellow that is very accommodating just as you have said, and I perceive he's very humble too.

I honestly can not see altcointalk ever replacing this forum as long as this forum remains online, but what is certain is that, altcoinstalk may possibly become big too with the right users, engagements and promotions, the admin of that forum is always open to new ideas and upgrade, did you guys notice the general chatbox on the site? That's an amazing feature to be honest.

Well, these forums like altcointalks and bitcoingarden are no way near the comparison with bitcointalk in terms of number of users being active on the forum and the traffic that bitcointalk has, these forums are no way near to it.

So it is obvious that the mixer's campaigns won't be willing to pay good rates if they are unable to get a good ROI. It will be an experiment to start a campaign there and they will only continue if they see that people are being directed to the mixers from this marketing.

However, I do feel that ban of mixers on this forum and moving the campaigns to that altcointalks or bitcoingarden forum is more beneficial for these forums as compared to the projects themselves. All of a sudden, these forums have started to gain traffic.  :)

Yeah, it is indeed beneficial to the forum right about now, but also check it out in the long term, the table will still turn around and the mixers will benefit from their the forum as well when those forums start gaining the traffic as well.

I personally believe that with the presence of mixers and other high paying service on such forum, admin of those forum will be more encouraged to work harder to see that their forums start gaining high traffic, so as to make sure that the services being promoted on the forum get a good return on their investment, which will in turn encourage them to advertise much longer on the forum, and as well, attract other services too.
This is not something that will happen over night though, it will sure take some time.

Not exactly. Because simply launching signature campaigns on these forums will not lead to the traffic they need to at least compete with bitcointalk, even if just a little. Traffic is nothing but members participating in signature campaigns on bitcointalk who want to continue participating in the group on another forum, and whose number in total I do not expect to exceed 100 members, given the number of campaigns that intend to move to another forum and taking into account members who do not have accounts with upgraded memberships on those forums.
Perhaps these forums will become more important to users in crypto communities after the number of posts increases and the quality improves, which means more traffic.

I'm not sure, but I think that I had a profile on that forum a long time ago, as well as on some other forums - but what I'm interested in is the "teleport" option, that is, how exactly does their admin verify that someone is really the one whose profile want to transfer - anyone can say they are Lucius and give my unique profile number?

For example, you can verify your account by updating your bitcointalk account with link to your altcointalk account (for example you can share link in "website" bracket) and then you contacvt admin who will then check your bitcointalk account.

Yesterday I decided to make an account with my name in order to reserve it so a scammer there can't make an account under my name as I can see it happening if altcointalk gets more popular due mixer signature campaigns.

@Rikafip, I should have read better, now it's clearer to me that you need to put their link somewhere in your profile on this forum, and that means that no one can "teleport" anyone's account unless they hack it first. In any case, it is good to create an account there, if nothing else, at least to protect ourselves from those who would try to "copy" us.

However, transferring BTT accounts anywhere and advertising things that are prohibited on this forum means that in the event that the authorities want to locate someone there, they can always request information from this forum as well, given that we publicly admit that it is the same person. What I want to say is that all activities on that forum can have implications on the profiles on this forum.

I have had an account here since 2018 and I am one of the earliest who got teleported into this forum, I remember this forum is very quiet and lack activity that at some point extended to a few months, signature and bounty campaign can make an impact in an online community, some want to make money from their contribution besides the reputation they are getting, so we are now seeing a migration of accounts.
But compared here in Bitcointalk you need to declare your alt account because they don't want abuse of their community, I don't know if there are changes in their policy because this policy was created five years ago

Forum policy concerning duplicate accounts (https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=35900.0)

I actually had the idea to create an account with a different name then teleport. However, this is just a trivial ploy, on the other hand, I doubt that law enforcement will consider activity on the forum as a big problem because the traffic is still too small compared to Btt.

I saw they don't allow users with different usernames to teleport. I did register there with a different username then I learned about the teleport so I'm not eligible for it.

If it is a violation to promote a mixer and the law is going to chase after those who promote it, there would be a lot the users here than in altcoinstalks that violate that law. The sad part is that users thought they were anonymous until they sent their coins to an exchange.

I am absolutely sure that scammers will try that, so better be safe than sorry. One thing I would suggest the others is to use different email when creating an alt account there.


True, whatever you do there might have implications on your bitcointalk account and is indeed something to think about. With that being said, mixers are not illeal yet so I don't think that those who will continue to promote mixers there are in immediate danger and I can imagine if/when mixers become illegal, altcointalk will ban it too.

This is simple, if you read the teleporting rules on altcoinstalk, you will see where it is stated that before you are teleported, you have to copy your altcoinstalk profile link and come to your profile here on bitcointalk, then paste your altcoinstalk profile like you copied in either your signature ad space, or your website url box in your bitcointalk profile, and then, you share your bitcointalk profile link with the altcoinstalk admin, who will scan it and verify that the profile is really yours through the altcoinstalk link you posted on your profile.

This is how I believe, the admin there gets to verify that the bitcointalk profile that are being teleported, actually belongs to the altcoinstalk user who claim to own it.

Regarding this forum, I think it is clear to everyone that we are in a very unfavorable situation considering that the forum is under the direct jurisdiction of the American authorities, and that the main admin is their citizen whose personal data is publicly known. As for this other forum in question, as well as some others that are mentioned, I cannot say what their situation is in this regard - because if they are located somewhere beyond the reach of the American and European authorities and if their admins are unknown, it is possible that even completely declaring mixers illegal will not affect their promotion.

Mixers can promote their mixers on cryptotalk.org too but they will not get any result. Compare the traffic of bitcointalk to altcointalks and cryptotalk, I think the signature campaign run on this forum will result in far superior results compared to signature campaigns run on altcoinstalk and cryptotalk.

I think that old and well-known mixers will continue their job but it will be very hard for new mixers to rise and will probably have to spend more money in marketing because their promotion choices will be very low. Bitcointalk was the most cost-effective and beneficial way to promote bitcoin mixer. I think they'll promote their mixer on websites like zippyshare and torrents.

A Google search is a great way to find a mixer phishing site and fake mixers where you will lose your money. If we go back to the era of ChipMixer, for example, if you did a google search for the term "ChipMixer", you would see results of phishing site. The genuine website was banned by Google. That tells you everything you need to know about Google and their care for customers. You can also pay for Google ads and advertise an obvious scam and money-grab. Google doesn't care as long as they make money of you.

Correct, but advertising and using mixers isn't against the law. In Sinbad's case, the problem was that scammers used it to mix and launder the bitcoin they stole, creating problems for everyone else who had nothing to do with that.

It may not be literally illegal, although no one should have any illusions that it will very likely come to that in the near future. The fact that the authorities allegedly detected some mixers as services through which "dirty money" passes does not mean that this does not happen with all other mixers as well. They are surely already working on some new cases, I just wonder how they choose their priorities - they come to the forum and see which is the most popular mixer, or they put them all in a hat and draw a name ::)

I think they are tracking Lazarus Group because from the first blender was seized in 2021 and until today they have been directly or indirectly under the management of that group starting with Tornado Cash, Blender.io^[2] Chipmixer^[3] and Sinbad^[4]

The only exception is bestmixer. I did not find that they have strong links to the Lazarus Group. Perhaps the reason for seizes is the data leak after the dark web market seized.

Let not totally ascribed mixers to criminiaties just like the admin mentioned that not all mixers are bad actors,  but a situation where one or two of those bad actor mixer can be trace to this forum is what the admin is trying to prevent it long time effect on members and the forum itself.

Those mixers who have a clean record will continue to exist and legit user will continue to use them likewise even the criminals too will also use them,  but saying that generally mixer are used only by criminals may be a big mixup between the facts and assumptions.

all these are because of Sinbad which was used by Lazaro. but it's not Sinbad's fault they were picked by the Lazaro group and Lazaro should be their target, not the mixers.

if authorities are up to finding them, they should just follow the trails. killing mixers business will just make their job harder as it will be done in a very secretive group. it is harder for them once mixers do the most innovative ways like using AIs and telegram bots.

In a situation like this,  it's only the innocent users that will be affected negatively because the criminals will find their way around it and find a way to mix the stolen coins within available means to continue with their criminal act.

Although not only Sinbad but also other mixers that were seized back then early this year who had their promotion here in the forum since 2017 be for it was seized by the same FBI chipmixer and this made the incident the second which caught the attention of the admin.

So do you guys know who is behind that forum? Any intel on their staff team, admins? it seems like a good idea to teleport there, I wonder, if I can hunt down and properly prosecute any of the abusers when they teleport there? such a brilliant idea, am I right or am I right? 😂 

There are still a lot of website out there that will accept to run ads for any mixers that hire them, there are also some android app that display ads, mixers could take their promotion there too. Since Google didn't ban mixer, they could still permit their ads to pup out on YouTube depending if any mixers takes their advertising there, same could be applicable to Facebook, X (Twitter), LinkedIn and more other social media out there. This forum is not the only place mixers could get advertise, they definitely will look for another means to still market their service.

These mixers will realize that the comparison of traffic that they'll get there and here are totally way out of the league. They may continue their advertisement there but eventually, if they're not liking the results, it is just going to end up with the expected result. Anyway, no one's wishing the result to be bad at all and there's always a chance for them and it's their choice how they're going to keep up with the competition and their marketing.

Old mixers that are been running for several years already have returning clients, it's the new and not fully established mixers that need marketing and promotions because of the limitless platforms where they can promote their service they have to make sure that they have far better support than all the other mixers to get a share of the market since they are going to be ban here in Bitcointalk, other platforms are opening up to accommodate them in exchange to activity, and they are more willing until they get the same issues like Bitcointalk experience.

A service or a payment method in itself isn't bad. Its features aren't bad. A mixer isn't bad. Mixing illegally obtained coins is bad.

If we put such tags on money, then all fiat should be classified as bad. What did criminals use before 2009? It wasn't that long ago. Drugs, children pornography, bribes, illegal weapons, and murders were all financed by fiat like the USD. Still, you don't ban the words "fiat", "cash", or "USD" because of that and treat everyone as rule breakers because they mentioned such terms.

That's also why the payrate is so low there compared to what was and is still offered on Bitcointalk. Here, you used to get $5-7 (up to $10) now. I doubt you will get more than $1.5-2.0 on AltcoinsTalk.

This is partly true, but every service needs advertisement, even if they have been operating for a long time. There are services on bitcointalk that have run their signature campaign for years, but they didn't stop, and it is because advertisement keeps your service in the minds of your customers, if you stop advertising, it is possible people might forget about your service and use the ones that are advertising their services.

Returning clients also have to be careful, there have been many failed mixers that were advertising in the forum before they failed, and some of them were still accepting deposits even after they failed and were not processing withdrawals, imagine a returning client who is not aware of this info, whatever they deposit is lost for good.

They can still research for feedback, some bloggers and articles mentioned mixers although not by recommendation if the article is reputable and there is negative feedback on mixers in their article they will take them down and retain only mixers that are servicing people who need mixers, you can always find complaints and feedbacks from mixer users in the internet, one of these platforms is Reddit, where the community admin allow discussion about mixers.
You just have to be diligent with your research.

Yes, that's for sure with the established ones and the new forum policy might even be an advantage to them since their competitors will be gone into the greater way of marketing them through the forum. Whilst for the other forum, it's attracting more visitors and traffic but the question is, for how long? Until they keep the campaign running there or when someone from the government steps in as well and tried to seize one of them?

That's a dry run I guess but there is no question why it's a bigger rate in here because traffic is way better. Anyway, good luck to them.

The forum makes it easier and faster for customers to identify a mixer or a service that has failed or turned into a scam, if you think bloggers and articles will publish such info as quickly as people get it here, then you are wrong. I understand your point, but we can all agree that a lot of people will lose their money to scam mixers when the forum stops advertising and linking to mixers, it is not so easy to get information out there, like it is here. Some services are going to start very well and get people's trust and then stop processing withdrawals, and before the information spreads, a lot of people would have been scammed, i do hope i am wrong, but i believe we are going to see situations like these from next month.

The mixers won't advertise their services on platforms like YouTube or any other social media platform. The main reason for that is they don't want to be chased by authorities because it would be easier for authorities to take action against mixers if they start advertising on social media platforms.

They mainly advertised their services on this forum and now I think one of the mixers of this forum is advertising their services on another similar forum. They will have to struggle a lot in order to find new clients because they want targeted audience to see their ads not just the whole public.

Unfortunately, the administrator of any forum has a policy to protect their platform they cannot make a disclaimer that the forum is not associated with any Bitcoin mixer while the members of the community are posting differently from what is the policy of the forum, compared to articles and vloggers they can make it appear the write-ups or videos are for information only because the writer or vloggers only has the full control of the content of this platform.
Bitcointalk has thousands of members and the administrator has no control over what's being posted by members unless they are word-filtered.

This is the same group that they blame for every major hack that has happened in the last 5 years, and at the same time there is no concrete evidence that they really exist? It seems to me that this group was created in the already well-known kitchen of black operations and serves precisely as the reason that all those fighters for law and justice can be reckoned with what is not under the control of the government.

If this group is so powerful, then why would they use mixers that are under the supervision of the authorities, and not invent a much more effective solution for money laundering - for example, through the banking system that launders hundreds of billions every year, and at the same time we do not hear that the authorities have closed any big bank.

That is because they cannot just use any mixer, as nobody is sure whether they, and which ones, are FBI honeypots.

A lot of their stash is in other coins besides Bitcoin. That precludes using mixers for any of them because the ones on bitcointalk only work with Bitcoin.

Also they need to be sure that the owner is not going to sell them out. For example (and this is only theoretical), maybe MixTum is forced to hand over Lazarus bitcoins over to FIOD or some other government should they ever get any.

Maybe they had a guy in the know, who was running Sinbad, and they paid him off, that's how they were so safe using it.

Probably because of heavy sanctions that are in place against everyone and everything that is connected with the ruling power of North Korea. Lazarus Group is always mentioned as a state-operated hacking team. If that is true, it would make sense that they use Bitcoin and other assets outside of the traditional banking system. They would be fools to use tether and similar centralized tokens that can be easily frozen. I just read that over 100 Ethereum addresses were frozen over the weekend after a new Tether policy update. There wasn't a lot of money, but still.

There are many platforms that mixers can use to conduct promotional campaigns for their services, so I tried to find an explanation as to why they prefer the forums and insist on them, even though most if not all of them cannot be compared to the BitcoinTalk forum, and it can be said that they fail due to the lack of traffic on them.
The only logical explanation that I found is that all the rest of the sites refuse to place advertising banners for Mixers, knowing that as far as I know, there are no laws or legal conditions that prevent them from doing so (at least until now).

So, the other platforms don't also want to allow them for advertising space because that could give them an eye from the government that tracks down dirty money and uses them for it. It's also possible that the next place that they're going to advertise might get some caution of giving them a notice to disallow them to advertise. But let's see, just like the other conventional websites and platforms, they're just doing safety precautions and filtering the ads that they might allow to pop on them that won't have any troubles caught by the regulators. Onto the new platforms, it's favorable to them as it definitely will attract more visitors for the meantime.

If bitcoin was to be centralized as the banks and the mixer CEO has much right and power like the bank managers or directors, they could easily send bitcoin across and delete any traces of it. It is because of the decentralized nature of bitcoin, that is why it is so difficult to completely stitch the loopholes left by its transactions and which is why it is not also easy to develop more efficient system than the mixers.

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As for the question of where mixers will promote, we should know that necessity prompts invention.

It would be interesting to compile a list of all the teleported members to altcointalk and post all of their Bitcointalk shenanigans over there for people to know their unmasked nature. I mean do these services want some shady characters advertise for them? I'm eager to get to know their team members, maybe they listen to reason and even tag them accordingly, because we wouldn't want weasels and parasites to spread to other places, right?

That's what I think so too, it's not like just because the forum doesn't allow it anymore doesn't mean that other websites won't advertise them too, they might still be able to squeeze in their services somewhere and Google ads probably won't mind them being advertised but now that they're not here in the forum, I'm sure that more people are going to fall for scammers that will pose as legitimate crypto mixers unless there's a way that we can still list them here which is unlikely to happen. Other social media platforms won't be a big help for the mixers though as those are also populated by scammers, yes they will find other places to advertise but now it's going to be more difficult for them and for the people that want to use mixers.

Because the community or forum is dynamic, people will stay on to read all the discussions compared to an advertising platform which will only show the platform site or banners, mixers will always have markets, and their clients will follow them on whatever platform they choose just to see if their service is still up to date the proof that they have a huge market is the amount of money they pour just to advertise their service if they can allocate huge funding then there's a big probability that they have existing and loyal clients.

Social media and ads for mixers? Is that actually a thing? I'm very surprised if it's allowed there and not here...further addressing that ...


...I highly doubt that an account would be able to easily promote a mixer on google or social media if it does not align with the US financial regulators guidelines, being that mixers aren't banned, but they must KYC their customers. If a mixer isn't following that guideline and others, I doubt that they'd last long on Google before ban or questioning.

I personally wouldn't trust one being promoted on those platforms purely because there would have to be a string attached currently or in the near future.


Summed up well...
Unfortunately.
It shouldn't be that way for legit users.


+1
(Merit bookmark)


I wouldn't put it past MSM and crypto MSM to follow this agenda to prevent anyone from any case looking like the perpetrators were truly anonymous, and just blaming North Korea to prevent inspiring the wrong kinds of people. I would hope that this isn't the case though as that would be pretty baseless propaganda, and would he pretty messed up (but not surprising) if so.

North Korea having a talented hacking group, would be an investment that makes sense for that country. It would be ironic considering the entire population has no access to media and information outside of their country (still no internet too?)...but it would be in line with what they do. Those hackers would have no choice but to work for their government, or reenter a society where computers are virtually worthless.

This would be an interesting topic for the politics and society board.

The mixer's ability to spend on relatively expensive advertising campaigns does not necessarily mean the success of those campaigns, because it is very important to choose the promotion platform. Users will follow the official channels of the Mixers to stay updated, but this does not mean at all that they will remain on a forum that does not have content that attracts their attention, because they will not spend their time just seeing signatures bearing the names and links of the Mixers without having another clear goal.
The idea came to my mind of launching a site like Bestchange, where mixers pay the site for listings, and the site works to promote the listing services without referring directly to the mixers. The idea can be easily implemented technically, but there are certainly other obstacles that are absent from our awareness.

Once they are not yet declared illegal, I believe they will continue to find their root somewhere else and will try as much as possible to be known in some sites that do not care and that are entirely in for the money. But this place is different and I love how things are going now, we have some integrity to protect, at least, not linking us with what is known for much evil is a way forward.

Besides, m!xers' more marketing has started happening, a friend called me 2 days ago that one of the m!xers here has started advertising with some alternatives of Bitcointalk, and that they are offering a very low amount compared to the ones they offered here. Who cares? I didn't even bother to verify. All I know is that they can do it while it lasts and as long as the forums/sites accommodating them are still not locked. But when it starts to be locked, this will be a deterrent for those who still harbour them. I've never been a fan.

You're right, there are many mixers that are trusted and reputable, they are not the ones involved in these evil deeds, people are, mixers only provide for privacy, there are many other platforms they can use to make promotion of what they are offering, the only difference is in them acheiving their main target audience like the one they gets from bitcointalk through traffic generated for them when they are making their promotions.

I think that the amount of traffic on BitcoinTalk is what motivates these mixers to limit themselves to advertising on it. Therefore, the decision of the new forum will have a significant impact on the activity of mixers in general, since all activities related to it have been determined, including even the type of discussions.
Frankly, I do not imagine that the campaigns would succeed on the rest of the forums, and I think it would be better if they would have tried to connect to other important sites, such as blockchain browser platforms or even casinos.
Personally, I do not know if there is any kind of advertising that Mixers do on the Dark Web, and I hope that someone can help us with the information, because I have always not imagined that Dark Web customers are not always active on the regular Mirror forums, and therefore they will not see advertising for Mixers.

To say the fact, we cannot expect things to be going the same way over a long time, things have to change, maybe this ban on mixers on bitcointalk will be what will lead to the massive ressurection of the altcoins forum when many organizations are going over there to promote their businesses and people were also going there to make their promotions and before you know it, it's keeps expanding without affecting bitcointalk at all, because those there, were also here in many ways than they appear there.

There are other forums like Bitcointalk, but I doubt they can match the traffic and results generated here. They may attempt to use those forums for a while, but if they fail to attract the desired number of users, they may consider alternative advertising methods such as placing their banners on popular websites like coingecko, coinmarketcap, and other popular cryptocurrency websites. They could also advertise on blog websites, and find the most known crypto-currency influencers who will promote their services on YouTube, Twitter, or other platforms. Anything is possible.

Originally, I had thought that these services would be banished to the darnket and that they would be completely outlawed, or held at the mercy of biased regulation (No KYC on mixer = not compliant, despite it contradicting privacy altogether).

However after reading this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5478507.0), it seems as though mixer promotion has moved to altcointalk for the time being.

I suppose it makes sense, and hopefully this will be a new place to regulate mixers for those who want to find information about then on the clearnet. Let's see if it lasts for them over time...

Or maybe we should instead rather wish them the goodluck of drawing traffic on the new platforms they may be using, it will be an advantage to any of the platforms privileged to host them have their signature campaigns, this may be the reason why they may also experience an increase in traffic but yet i don't think there's any that can be compared to that of bitcointalk as you have said, mixers will always find a means of advertising their business as long as there are platforms that accepts for that.

Just like altcoins can't and will never be compared with Bitcoin, so is the altcoin forum will never be compared with Bitcointalk. If you didn't know, before now, many had tried a thing like this in the name of cryptocurrency forums but they failed, and there is one that is still standing but only relegated to Russia alone. This altcoin forum of a thing has started and has been operating with sponsors too before now, so this time that m!xers see it as an alternative, what difference will that make?

The two forums will continue to run as before but this place will continue to outshine it. From what I heard, the pay over there is nothing to write home about, and that is for a clear reason, traffic. I don't know how that is true but the person can't lie to me. So that is another discouragement for the users that are already used to this place. Although some are greedy, they will do both together, regardless, this forum continues to stand tall.

Google does not currently restrict mixers or platforms that review and advertise them. Users can simply search for the term "mixer" unless Google filters out related keywords and promotional platforms. These mixers are accessible on the main net, not limited to the darknet, and are discussed and promoted in various online communities, including platforms like Reddit.

There are many platforms but how reliable are they to generate the required results needed and how could they be trusted for this purpose when they are not properly moderated like here, though altcoinstalks forum has a little resemblance to this our forum but yet the traffic are incomparable to each other, while the aforementioned social media platforms could not be trusted by many to follow on what they are advertising since it's something different from what they do, here we deals with cryptocurrencies majorly and they have the assurance of getting the best results from here than other platforms.