Bitcoin Forum

Well, this post's title is a euphemism of course, but I find it curious that the great majority (if not all of them) of signature campaigns advertise casinos and gambling.

Is there any rational explanation behind the fact that a Bitcoin forum -I repeat, a Bitcoin forum- is full of casino signatures?

I don't really mind the fact that casinos are advertised. Or perhaps I do, because I hate gambling, but this is a personal opinion and of course, I can understand that any company wants to gather more customers.

However, my point is, is Bitcoin development so difficult? Is it a thing from the past? Nobody writes bitcoin-related software anymore? Why on earth isn't there any good bitcoin-related product advertised in the forum?

Is it because bitcoin projects can't be easily monetized?
Is it because even if they were monetized, they couldn't have the profit margins that casinos have, so they could be efficiently advertised?
Or is it because only mixers could bring money to the campaingers? I highly doubt that banning mixers was such a powerful measure, that lead to the "all-in" from signature campaings...

In fact, I always wondered why many services related to Bitcoin are not clearly advertised on the forum. It is true that some services open ANN on the forum, others not even that.

Maybe half of the services I know about Bitcoin were discovered here on the forum. I don't know about them anymore, because there are no ads for them here.

It will be interesting to see why there are no more ads for these services.
Can campaign managers come up with an explanation for this?

I think the main reason why some services would advertise in the forum is because it can't advertise elsewhere.
The second reason  would be to create back links to improve SEO.

I have never seen duelbits blackjack or monkey tilt in Facebook or Instagram ads. But I do see them here. Maybe they can't announce there? Legal restrictions? I don't know the exact reason, but that is a fact. I don't see them in social media.

Imo, it looks to be far more effective,  from the marketing point of view, to advertise in those big techs/social media than here..

Companies who are allowed to do so, simple advertise elsewhere.

I am here since 2017. 90% of the advertisers were mixers and casinos. With rare exceptions, like a few kyc free exchanges or services like wasabi or bestchange

I've actually wondered myself from time to time... Maybe Bitmover is right, but i always wondered why other company's that accept bitcoin as a payment don't jump on the potential traffic from the biggest bitcoin community...

I mean, as long as you sell a product that's more or less mainstream and most (tech savvy) people will buy from time to time AND you accept BTC as a payment option, i just feel it would make sense to promote on bitcointalk.
I have also read from certain mixer-owners that the traffic they got from bitcointalk was much better quality wise than the traffic they got elsewhere....

I could understand if shops accepting bitcoin would do a trial for a couple of months, and in the end conclude that traffic from google ads is better and stop using signature campaigns, but you simply don't even see any trials. I know that (for example) dell used to accept bitcoin as a payment option, i guess it would have been super-effective if you saw a couple high ranking members with official dell promotion in their signature, pointing directly at the dell website where it was indicated bitcoin was a payment option... But i never saw such a thing.

It makes me wonder if it's a legal issue??? Most of us are pseudo-anonymous, and usually bigger company affiliates have to pass trough KYC so they can get harassed by their country's tax authority afterwards... I guess it would be harder to implement a KYC centered affiliate program on bitcointalk.

I do not agree. The only reason any seller advertises his site or service on a platform for long time if it is converting well for him. I am very much sure that these advertisers are getting good returns with the investment they are making with the signature campaigns. Then only, they are able to continue the signature campaigns for long time. The forum converts well than other platforms because traffic is very targeted. Everyone who is member here has almost used crypto on daily basis. That is an ideal customer for these type of advertisers. 

Probably we might have reached the saturation point of basic products needed around the bitcoin ecosystem like exchanges or mixers. Until any innovation happens or basic human need demands, I doubt about the development of any new bitcoin product.

I just assume about the reverse, I mean most other businesses except gambling must be making enough revenue without the need of marketing here; like exchanges, payment processors and crypto debit cards. This might be the reason, we are not seeing most other business are not being advertised here.

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Nevertheless, gambling industry must be one of the most benefitted one from cryptocurrencies. Hence there would be no surprises on seeing more gambling houses are being advertised across this forum.

I didn't said the that they do not get good returns. But they most likely lack options to advertise in places where they would get better return.

Yeah, it's true social media like Facebook or youtube have strict policies against the gambling related promotions that could be one of the reason why we don't see them but I have seen stake advertised by many creators like shoutout for them for being the sponsor of their video so they exists in social media too but in different way.

Other reason, we crypto commuinity seek open source softwares for our needs which are created by the community and doesn't generate profits so we can't expect them to advertise their products by promoting money from their own pocket which is why we see some of those services has voluntary signature campaigns where users will not be paid for promoting them.

The prevalence of casino and gambling ads in this forum does seem a bit off at first glance. But the reality is, casinos have the financial muscle to afford extensive advertising campaigns, targeting platforms like these where potential customers gather.

On the flip side, Bitcoin-related projects often operate on tighter budgets, focusing their resources on development rather than advertising. Even though they're innovative and essential, they don't always have the same immediate profitability that gambling platforms do. That's why you see fewer Bitcoin-related ads in comparison.

Bitcoin projects are mostly not "likeable" by Average Joe because people don't care with it's development. Even hardware wallet is a must for someone who own a good amount of Bitcoin, but the reality not many people want to buy hardware wallet, for them it's an unnecessary extra cost. This make them in loss since not many people want to buy hardware wallet.

If we're talking about centralized exchange, isn't most users here say to avoid centralized exchange? :D

Of course centralized exchange don't want to pay the user that talking bad against them instead of promoting.

The main bitcoin-related service can no longer be advertised on the forum, that for one thing.


That's right, I've seen Youtube videos where the influencer talks about Ledger or Trezor and has a referral code if you buy them with his link. If Ledger or Trezor don't advertise here it will be because they see more ROI doing it another way.

The case of bitcoin-related services that can't advertise here is already known.

Then we have casinos, which until recently could function as mixers but more and more have been introducing KYC and wagering requirements that prevent it. If they advertise here and not elsewhere it is partly because of legal restrictions and partly because they operate in limbo. They are in a transition phase, the moment they are forced to operate like any other fiat casino they will disappear from here too.


That's right, this forum is pretty much anti-anything that can be advertised, anti-kyc exchanges, anti-kyc wallets, anti trezor and ledger for their attacks on privacy, and the OP is anti-casinos. So what do you want to be advertised here?

Casinos are promoted everywhere. I can tell you that in my region, there are casino banners on every website. No other project buys a web space from websites except casinos.
The competition among casinos is huge but so is the earning in this business. If you want to be competitive, you have to advertise everywhere. When a casino sees that another casino promotes on Bitcointalk and gets some results, they start promoting here to be competitive and don't leave a hole anywhere.

Btw to be fair, I think that the biggest users of a signature campaign on this forum should be exchanges like Binance, Coinbase and Kraken. Bitcointalk is a forum where we discuss Bitcoin and altcoins, trading and economy. Before we do anything in the crypto space, we want to buy cryptocurrencies and exchanges are the best place for that. It's strange but I haven't seen a signature campaign from exchange for years, the only exceptions are instant exchanges.
I also expect signature campaigns from Bitcoin and crypto wallets but they are very silent here. It's really strange why only casinos promote here.

This question will be more appropriate if you ask to the developers or teams of Casino sites.
Logically, if there are many casinos signatures, it means it is an effective way to promote the campaigns in this forum. I can understand it since many forum members join the gambling activities, many of them are true gamblers.

I can understand if you seem not happy to see many casino signature campaigns because you hate gambling. Basically, this is more like your subjective assumption, you expect to see bigger number of non casino campaigns. However, this forum is free space, it is not designed to support certain projects to held their promotion.

What does bitcoin-related software have to do with campaigns? Anyway, if you find out too few advertisement of bitcoin-related products, they may view the forum isn't the best place to promote their products anymore. Or they focus on social media (telegram, twitter, facebook, etc) to promote their products nowadays. We can't blame the developers, they should try varied ways in promotion. I suggest you hold a survey if you want to get valid answers. You can make a survey addressed to the developers of bitcoin-related products.

If you look at the service board or search through it for like last three years you will see that it is of recent that the casinos dominated but they were actually campaigns by other bitcoin related companies, my assumption is most of the leave after getting their assumed attention and also their weren’t able to cope with the ROI the advertisement of the forum was bringing, this could be that this brands are in high competition with each and some are not mostly used by everyone, because members here have preferences unlike casinos that are similar and you know the ROI gotten from this casinos can never be compared to a bitcoin wallet or something like that, that’s why the former actually still exists. I could remember when Best_Change were asked to increase their signature amount they specifically made that statement that they couldn’t match the amount paid by other brands like the mixers and casinos then due to ROI issue, I think this could be relatively what other companies also look into. So as times pass on most actually feel like they have gotten the audience they needed and moved on.

As for exchanges like centralized exchanges I don’t think they will actually gain the attention they needed here even if they advertised, I am not saying people here do not use centralized exchanges here on the forum but majority here frowns on anything related to KYC and as such it would be uneconomical for these brands to come to where their services aren’t valued that much

I suppose it's that simple, yeah!


One of the best ways to promote your innovative project (bitcoin-related in our case) is through this forum.


Exactly my point! This forum includes a huge community of people who understand and love Bitcoin, so isn't it a good place to show / promote / advertise your bitcoin related projects?


It's definitely true.

It's quite simple: companies advertise to earn money.

Who's going to pay for those ads?

That makes sense, right? A few dollars per post is a lot more money than any other forum would be able to pay.

They all have millions of customers, why would they use Bitcointalk? I'm pretty sure they don't even care about Bitcoin, especially the first one in your list who actively tries to trick their customers into withdrawing fake made-up tokens which they present as if it's Bitcoin.
Other large projects (I'm thinking about the #2 in market cap, a centrally controlled altcoin) only used Bitcointalk to promote their creation in their early days. The moment they got rich enough, they abandoned the forum just like they abandoned their "code is law" rule.

Well, personally, I do not believe that any of this things you mentioned is the reason why we do not see bitcoin services being advertised on this forum, I too love bitcoin and would love to see it's services being advertised on this forum, not just the casinos, but also bitcoin exchange platforms, the bitcoin related projects like the ordinals and all that, and as a matter of fact, I see this services promoting their business else where..

And speaking about casinos being the only possible services accepting bitcoin that are being advertised here, I think it's a matter of "when the desired is not available, then available becomes the desired", many desire to wear signature ad of other bitcoin and cryptocurency companies that is not gambling casinos, but unfortunately, we don't have them, and if you ask me why we don't have such companies advertising here, and i would say the reality is that, many of this companies don't even know that this forum exist, and that their services can actually be advertised here.
Others who know, likely do not see value, because, the number of overall visitors to this forum per day is too poor.

Just my thought.

They maybe found other places for advertisements and I see not only signature campaigns but also bounties have similar changes. Less bounties in the forum than years ago, and as I know in recent years, cryptocurrency projects have more third party sites to host their bounties, contests with given tools (free or paid) to detect cheaters. It's more helpful than hosting bounties in the forum.

Campaign managers can proactively find projects, companies and give them offers. This case they can explain to your question.

In other cases, they receive questions about their services from companies like casinos that want to hire a signature campaign. This is hard for campaign managers to explain to your question.

Secondly, most of these casinos are newly or rebranded firms. The protocol and time to make a huge profit is nothing compared to how long an avalon nano 3 stays on the web. Bitcoin has already created enough publicity for itself over the years and we all know how to acquire anything in relation if need be. Again, the question from you comes into play -- who's gonna pay for an ad?
Edit: Maybe meta labels that as part of things that goes against their community standards? I seen alot of sponsored post which are obviously paid ads made to seek publicity, but I can't recall seeing a casino.
I'm also thinking of the same thing as well, but what if there are some underground restrictions that we(you) dunno?

That's actually a damn good question--and I think the bigger bitcoin "projects" like hardware wallets don't need to advertise on a discussion forum, which honestly seems like an outdated method of drumming up business. 

Bitcointalk, for as long as I've been here, has been full of gamblers and gambling is and has been one of the biggest uses of bitcoin I know of, aside from the dark web (and I don't even know what the stats are on that).  I assume that's why there have been so many gambling-related signature campaigns.  They might rake in a lot of cash, but I think compared to other businesses they're fairly small-time and don't have to shell out enormous amounts of money to hire a bunch of forum posters.  Like I said, good question you're asking here.  After the caffeine hits my bloodstream perhaps I might give it some more thought.

It's kinda funny: the VCR was made popular by porn, for Bitcoin it's gambling.

I believe that casinos are already well known around here, and whenever there is a new company, or one that needs more visibility, they advertise in the forum along with the subscription campaigns, maybe this is the first place where they think about

One difficulty I see for other companies advertising here is the inability to directly measure the return they can provide in the short term. It's very difficult to know this from a short campaign, for example

Some casinos have been around for a few years and have expanded their campaigns, appearing here more and more

I tend to defend the forum obviously, but several companies could advertise here and strengthen the brand even more. Harwallet companies, BTC or altcoin miners, exchanges, etc...
Even though there are social networks today, with a lot of dynamism, here is still the forum that Satoshi created, here there are still discussions that are very relevant to BTC, there are excellent users, it is a very good source of information that is difficult to find on other pages

I seriously don't know Loyce. I mean, I understand your point, but don't you agree that it's a problem? It's probably because of the profit margins. To be able to pay for ads, you need to have income or at least a solid revenue.


Hi! Are you sure about that? I mean, I don't know how many visitors this forum has per day. Do you?


Hi! Why do you think so? I mean, I would definitely be interested in "promoting" (with or without money) a good hardware device. I mean, it would give a lot of newbies a general guidance that hardware wallets are better than many other solutions. It would be better for the community, I don't know if you agree.


Haha, you are more than welcome to let caffeine do its work and come back later.
But when you do, please keep in mind that even from a philosophical point of view, casinos make you lose money whereas bitcoin makes your fiat more valuable.


I agree, but I am sure that it's because we are romantic bitcoin users. Obviously I posted this thread because I believe bitcoin projects can be efficiently advertised here, but many people say social media are better for this purpose. I don't own any social media, so I can't tell...


I said though that I understand that casinos need to be advertised and, of course, I stand firmly against stopping them from being advertised here. All I am saying is that I 'd like more bitcoin services to be advertised too. It's a bitcoin forum, not a gambling forum.

It's one of the great drawbacks of open source software. Developers don't get paid, miners walk away with massive profits, and the software (and Bitcoin) is a free market for anyone to try to earn money.

You are wearing a signature which is free, but it looks like a good service.

I saw this on the OP of the signature campaign:


I would love more and more initiatives like this. I know -and it makes sense- that people will prefer to get paid from a campaign, rather than do it for free. But we are in need of good services and showing to each other new options.

EDIT: I just followed your lead.

Sure there is a good reason for that, most casinos that are advertised in bitcointalk forum are using Bitcoin as one of the payment methods, and this could be the same with any other business.
I could ask you similar question, is there any rational explanation for many sport clubs to have casino sponsors everywhere, with shirts, stadiums and everything else having much more influence on people of all age.
There is a simple law, companies with most money will continue to advertise, and I see nothing wrong with casinos in bitcointalk.
I am not supporting gambling, but people are not supporting many things and they advertise crap all the time with their clothes, food, etc.
You buy a product than you support it, you buy some stuff manufactured in China, than you support China.

I agree with @bitmover but I think that the continuity of signature campaigns comes from gaining loyalty more than increasing the number of users, personally I used thechange and exch because of their presence in the forum which gave me assurances that they will not scam me for amounts less than $1000.

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To get an accurate answer, it may be better to review the signature campaign data for the last 7 years, I think that for many years mixers and casinos were the only ongoing campaigns and no major services related to bitcoin have been announced here for a while.

Apart from mixers and casinos, the last long campaign I remember was coinpayments.net and Gunbot

Your expressions has been on my thoughts for long now too. Maybe I should get myself convinced to some extend that casinos advertised here are purely crypto acceptable casinos which as an individual owned platform serves as medium of promoting cryptocurrencies at the same process advertising their own gambling companies in the bitcointalk platform.
I'm little missing if to think about advertising Cryptocurrencies who'd take responsibilities of paying the advertisment teams knowing that cryptocurrencies is a decentralized technology.
However, Crypto currencies discussions is an utmost reason why this forum was developed and obviously we've mostly discussed about bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies which is already and advertisement of cryptocurrencies. We're only privilege to earn here when the signature campaigns was endorsed to run their ADs and conditionally expected to compensate participants.

I also see it that way. Remember how ChipMixer was simply the number one mixer everyone used? They spent quite some money here, but I would say it paid off (for the time they were up running). If I needed a mixer, the first thing in my mind would be "ChipMixer", and their signature campaign was the main reason.

Interesting discussion. Want to add something from my perspective, but it was such tough Monday that my brain refuses to work. So, it won't be deep insight.
First of all, we should admit that now Bitcointalk isn't same as it was 5 years ago. Traffic and activity is declining. So, I guess that business is looking for more effective ways to advertise. Also, I think that gambling platforms have a bit deeper pockets and bigger budget for advertising than some no-KYC exchange. After all, gambling campaigns probably is just more effective - we have so many people here who actually gamble

No, it's not that strict. Everything depends on local laws. If in your country advertising of gambling isn't allowed, then you won't see it on Facebook or Youtube. In country where I live, these websites is full of gambling ads.

Do you think that advertising on the forum does not bring money to the advertiser?

The cost of advertising on the forum is probably high due to the fact that it is difficult to control the performance of this advertisement. It is true that we have the number of posts and visitors, but is this information so clear that it helps to understand whether the campaign is advantageous or not?

I've found duelbits ads on Instagram and Facebook too, as well as on platform X. Maybe not as often as here, but this also depends on the viewing history which is then continuously recommended by the platform. They also attract gamblers to become customers on the platforms mentioned above, but only they know which platform is most profitable for them.

I end up wondering why most exchanges don't want to run promotions on forums. I know they already have a large client base without promotion on this forum, but their involvement in the community can help this industry grow better. bitcointalk is the biggest discussion forum they deserve, at least they need to consider running a campaign as a bonus for contributors on this forum.

Maybe if i could remember the last time i see anything bitcoin related being advertised here was when mixers where still allowed, but before then, if i could recall about exchanges and wallets like wasabi or so have once been around here, while regarding other bitcoin projects and software developers being advertised, i cant say much of them because maybe they already think github is there and will always be the first reference for any new update, while gambling platforms sees this forum as a trigger for traffic because of the numbers of people coming on a daily basis which they know could be a very good ground for them to achieve getting exposed to the world.

There will be several factors why we do not see actual bitcoin projects advertised here. One will be that many of them are startups and do not have enough profit margin to invest into ads on the forum and those that do have enough to advertise on other social platforms with better results. I actually do not want a reality were we have actual bitcoin projects falling over themselves and throwing money into advertising as that will suggest there is a lack of originality entering the space.

Does anyone remember the type of projects that were advertised when theymos auctioned ad signature spaces? They could give us an idea if there are bitcoin related projects that were willing to buy a space but not go through the routine of weekly signature requirements.

- Jay -

I remember when there were a lot of exchange campaigns in the past but I think when they're done promoting here and got the result that they want, they simply gone away and continue to run their ads elsewhere with another target market that they want which mostly are from social media.

It was just a few pages on the Auction section to see what they are at least for the year 2022, but upon looking at the last threads, they're mostly gambling ads.

The amount of clicks the campaigns receive, where the traffic comes from, and the performance gains in SEO rank are all very easy to measure. Probably these 3 (and a few more) parameters are monitored by all those advertisers when they decide to continue to campaign or not.

There isn`t much need to display number of visitors per month etc on this forum. I don`t see websites doing that... there are other and more efficient ways to measure those metrics.

• Not all popular social media platforms advertise gambling. So, a forum like this is a nice place for casinos to advertise.
• Projects advertise more where they have good patronage.
• There are alot of gamblers in the forum and it is ok to assume that percentage of weekly signature campaign earnings for some people goes back to gambling in the same casino.
• Casino is a major adopter of bitcoin and cryptocurrency. I mean BTC has a good use case in Casino which is a reason for the marriage.

Maybe other reasons too...

First Bitcoin gambling website is SatoshiDice.com but now it is Bitcoin Cash gambling site.

When that site accepted Bitcoin for gambling, it made big effects and brought more people to Bitcoin blockchain.
Bitcoin history book, page 101 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M8z4M4oV4WC_aIGWkn-tO_T7Nkllj47C/view).

We have section for that maybe there are still some topics regarding bitcoin developement or those who write bitcoin related tech.

Btw. Im not sure if tokens using bitcoin network is somehow related cause Ive seen a lot of project advertised on twitter which gives emphasized on doing defi but on bitcoin network. ( but somehow maybe resemblance as altcoin instead as a bitcoin development)

But the quality is increasing. There's still bounty spam, but the Merit requirements helpt. That's visible in this topic (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5032314.0): 6 years ago, the number of posts dropped by 65% in the months after Jr. Members required 1 Merit.
You have a point though: after that reduction, the forum saw 124,306 new posts per week. We're down to 23,443 (https://loyce.club/active/7d.html) posts per week. Now compare that to the 353,813 posts per week before this change (and it was probably even more than that before I started keeping track).

I think most campaigns don't last long because it doesn't provide enough revenue fast enough.

That's public data. This is the last auction:

The developers don't allow to advertise gambling, but the user can create a gambling content or use the casino's logo when they discuss something. After all there's a way to promote gambling even though technically isn't allowed.

Everyday, I always see someone promote gambling in social medias despite I didn't search it

I really doubt we have a lot gamblers. it's more like non gamblers that discuss about gambling.

I also doubt people are using Bitcoin to gamble when there are many users complain about the fees and regret if Bitcoin price increase after they lose. I think people are either using stablecoins run in cheap network or cheap coins.

Bitcoin-related software isn’t for everyone. Honestly, maybe just 1% of people here even talk about it. Gambling, though-that’s easy for anyone to jump into. And it’s actually a good thing the forum isn’t super strict with campaigns, even though casinos, like mixers, have some ties to money laundering.

There were projects in the past, but most weren’t even about Bitcoin, they were altcoin projects run in ICOs. And now that ICOs are pretty much dead, they’ve lost steam, and so no new signature campaigns are coming from that side. But that’s just how it goes, things change, and there's no promise the forum will stay the same forever. We just have to keep doing our thing. If anyone’s into Bitcoin software development, the right boards are there for it.

Estimates of the number of Bitcoin "owners" are always many times larger than the number of funded Bitcoin addresses. That means most Bitcoin "users" keep their coins on exchanges, which explains why centralized exchanges are too big to advertise here (some posted here in their early days). Instant exchanges are much smaller, and their customer base is limited to the people who use their own wallet. I expect the percentage of altcoin "owners" that uses their own wallet to be even smaller.
The big money is with centralized exchanges, miners and casinos. The first 2 of this list don't need to advertise here. That just leaves casinos and some small instant exchanges.

It's good to hear that a bitcoin related campaign actually led to the usage of the product by bitcoiners.


Could be true, but if they spend (?) money on research and see that their ads in other websites give them significant revenue increase, perhaps they find bitcointalk space less effective.

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Another thing that crosses my mind is that perhaps the interest on bitcoin-related projects grows when something significant happens.

For example, mixers were advertised a lot when the non-sense about "clean" coins was in very high demand. Maybe because of the new regulations that governments apply.

Another example is the non-kyc exchanges which became more popular after FTX, or after the rumours/news about Binance doing money laundering.

Finally, it's almost certain that as bitcoin price increases, more people will join the forum. I don't care about the price change personally, but many people do.

It is less effective than other modern platforms in marketing but there is fact that no communities are the same and companies can find different potential customer targets for their companies by doing marketing in different communities.

Like Twitter and Facebook can be more or less common in a nation so if a company has to choose either Facebook or Twitter (now X) for their marketing, they have to do local research on which platform is most popularly used in that country.

I think I am not biased to say gambling sites actually get good traffics and effects from their signature campaigns here, that gave them convincing results to continue their campaigns a long time. I see that no all gambling sites can run long lasting campaigns and it reveals that you are a Bitcoin-based product company or a gambling company, if you can not have good revenue from marketing, you have to stop it.

Gambling sites are the majority today, in the past it might have been mixers. There have also been a good amount of campaigns for instant exchanges. The thing they all have in common is that they are in a legal gray area and they are restricted from advertising on many mainstream platforms.

I’ve also wondered why there aren’t other kinds of products advertised. I would think that Trezor and Coldcard have the budget to run a signature campaign if they wanted and they would be reaching their target audience.

Even if the forum loses popularity, it is still great for SEO purposes because of the notoriety of being the forum that Satoshi and many other notable people were members of. As long as the website is kept running you can always count on there being traffic directed to the forum.

Non-KYC exchanges have always been popular, and many of the current large exchanges started like that. I've used Bittrex, Binance and Poloniex long before they asked for KYC. Many of the current large Bitcoin casinos also started like that, and when they got bigger, they had to become compliant.
Whether I like it or not, I think this means Bitcoin's usage is maturing. It's less of a "Wild West" out there.

It looks to be the same for previous years too. There are some services that cannot be verified directly through the usernames that made the bid, but at least 1 in 5 was a non casino related service, which is far less than what we see with signature campaigns today (in the absence of mixers).

Signature campaigns are great for creating a space for yourself and building reputation but not for SEO purposes.

- Jay -

What we can assure with that data is that there is no altcoin project there IIRC. That's probably what it was then, more casinos, more campaigns.

It's also a plus that they get the target market that they want to advertise their service/product. All of them are related to crypto so as their viewers and potential customers from the forum.

Altcoin projects usually go for bounty campaigns over signature or ads auction. You also have to factor in that theymos filters auctions he accepts so there are those who applied without being accepted.

If you have a service that accepts crypto and is legitimate, you have target audience on this forum.

- Jay -

This is probably because they mostly use cryptocurrencies (including Bitcoin) as their primary payment methods, this forum is related to cryptocurrencies, and they know they are going to find people with a general interest in cryptocurrencies who might also like gambling. I don't see any other logical explanation for this question. A casino accepting Bitcoin as a payment method would look for gamblers having Bitcoin or at least have an interest in cryptocurrencies which makes them potential customers.

Have you heard about targeted advertising? It's basically the same thing. Casinos advertised on this forum accept cryptocurrencies, so they are targeting people who are interested in cryptocurrencies, and I can't think of a better place for any company to find such people than this forum.


You answered this question yourself:

In the past, there were a bunch of signature campaigns for altcoins that paid BTC, the most successful ones did that. IIRC, that was during the preICO period and then came 2018, the bear market, and most of them died. But as for the auction for the forum ad slot, you're right.

Exactly.

Let's put it this way; should the interested business that feels to be advertised here be chased away when there are few or no businesses interested in advertising core Bitcoin-related products with genuine interest? There are various sections to typically discuss Bitcoin and had it been it was possible, the intereted adverts, as you want, would have come. But the reality now is that "If the preferred is not available, the available will be preferred."

Again, Bictointalk has a wide scope, it has all the sections to make it not Bitcoin-typical discussion alone but also fun and extras.

Besides, the typical Bitcoin projects I've seen here often want to advertise for free (even if they know how to gain from it). I don't see how convenient that is with most forum users if they can participate and still earn money for their discussion. Many may tell you it's not about that but the truth is evident in how we wear the signatures of companies all around.

I am wearing a free-of-payment signature, but what do you mean "they want to advertise for free (even if they know how to gain from it)" ?

Couldn't they simply generate smaller incomes, making them unable to afford $500 - $1000 / week for advertisement?

The number $500 - $1000 is arbitrary but not very far from reality. I 've seen campaigns paying more than 1M satoshis per week to the campaigners. Which means that the companies pay 1M + the manager's salary. In today's terms, 1M satoshis = $669

Perhaps bitcoin-related projects can't pay that much, even if the projects are great.

It nicely shows the difference between the real world, where $669 is a lot of money, and the ICO/Defi/NFT/Ordinal money grabbers, where $100 million is nothing.

Exactly my point.
In general though, like everything in the universe, the situation will be stabilised and everything will be in great equilibrium.
It’s a matter of time, perhaps a lot of time, but it will!

There was even an altcoin signature campaign that paid in bitcoin, during their pre sale earlier this year and base on the report of the CM it really did well [The END] SWGT Signature Campaign 🔥 Binance #SWGT & CERTIK Audited (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5482532.msg64288161#msg64288161)

I doubt there will ever be equilibrium, this's the ironic thing about life, people will often move to where the money is and that's why we see the meme frenzy era going on now, while last year it was ordinals. These projects may not consider this forum as a serious marketing point, maybe because of the legitimacy and transparency of their project or what entirely the project is actually about, but those which are legitimate and transparent often will see here as good marketing point.

I'm not sure what you mean here. One could argue the universe is always in equilibrium. And for every sucker who no longer falls for money grabbing schemes, 10 new ones are born.

Sorry, all I meant was that justice comes sooner or later.

It's gone out of subject. I think it's clear that it's as simple as:

1. bitcoin companies generate less income or don't want to use their income for advertisement in the forum.
2. the users of the forum prefer to wear signatures that pay them (which is acceptable).
3. the forum is an all-inclusive space where too many subjects are developed and it's not a bitcoin-only forum. This is also acceptable, I guess. It may haven't been Satoshi's primary idea, but in order to keep the forum running and bring more people you need to broaden the areas that are covered.

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Hereby, I don't talk about casinos / gambling anymore, but my final plea is: please, before wearing any signatures, just make sure the company is legit, no matter what their business area is. Don't wear signatures just for the money. Verify (as well as you can) the integrity of the business that you promote. Luckily, most campaign managers filter out the garbage and present mostly solid companies, but the past has shown that some companies advertised in here weren't as good as people thought they were.

I would take it like this, why they need to spend money if the users are willing to wear the signature for free?

Sometime I think wearing signature for free has a drawback, it make the project get free advertisement and it could influence the project to pay lower, because it's easier to make people to wear the signature. If someone wearing non profit project signature like Bitcoin site or donation, it's fine, but not for other thing...

Yea I guess satoshi's initial objective was to create a space where Bitcoiners could come together to discuss their experience, problems and including the solution to to help BTC on its road to global adoption. The signature campaigns and other things which later became inclusive on the forum is what majorly drives visitors to the website and also traffic. Some of these business also adds Bitcoin to their platforms as a means of payment so partially they are Bitcoin companies..


Also you are very correct about this part as alot of people just wants to wear the signature and don't care to know a bit about the services they are promoting. Most times its a very necessary so you don't end up wear a scam project which might in one way get back on you. Like when there was issue with certain mixers(I don't want to mention name) you see how the participants were closely investigated by the authorities... Something like this should be more reasons why before promoting a platform you carry some research aswell.. it's also the job of tne manager to do same. But no one can tell when these platforms might decide to go rogue.

That's a bit the point. When a product is correctly advertised, it will have a predictable return, in the short or medium term.

Now, perhaps we need to increase the quality of posts and topics, to attract more users and new content. In this field, I believe we can all improve.

Make the forum even more popular, outside the forum. This could help attract more potential advertisers.

Could it be competition facing each other causing this? I mean maybe signature campaigns are more profitable to casinos than any other business, or maybe there were casinos who did this, and other casinos are doing it for branding and competition reasons? Because there aren't like some hardware wallet companies doing signature campaign, others aren't following, but if one of them did a major one, then maybe others would follow.

I believe it's becoming industry standard, if you have a crypto casino, then you have a campaign here type of thing, everyone has one, so you want to have one as well. Other type of business in crypto do not have it here commonly, but casinos do, so other casinos follow each other.

Also, tokens have this too, usually at bounty board, not at services, but you can see plenty of tokens distributed by new projects to people who carry their signature as well, probably same reason as casinos as well, it's been done by others, so new ones follow. I am guessing the returns can't be really that big, how many people would gamble how much money for something like this, I bet if casinos put trackers and checked how much money is made from people who register from here, they will see it's just branding cost and not really profitable.

Honestly, I've seen many times that the Bitcointalk community is seen as overly critical and possibly aggressive towards new services. I believe that this is one of the reasons why some new projects do not appear here, they do not want to go through harsh criticism at the very beginning.
Just imagine how much hard work the Ledger Wallet representative here would have to defend all the bad decisions they made in the last year alone. It's clear that they don't need that, it would just make them look even worse.

To be fair, the large majority of all new "services" that post here, are created by scammers. The few truely innovative new services I've seen usually get a warm welcome, and even better: they welcome constructive criticism.

You bring up a good example of what not to do. If they'd show up here, they'd deserve to get a very hard time. They sold out their core principles to turn their product into a subscription model. I'd be more concerned if Bitcointalk users would suddenly turn 180 degrees and start defending them to get paid.

Of course it is. That's why we have more theoretical concepts, than practical implementations of many things (for example decentralized sidechains).

Well, block space is more expensive, than it was. In the past, everyone assumed, that we can load a lot of stuff on-chain, and don't worry about it. And many services worked well, as long as the chain was not congested. But when the fee market started to form, then people stopped pushing everything on-chain, and started thinking about other solutions (which is not easy).

It is easier to pump and dump a new altcoin, than to contribute to Bitcoin. And it is more profitable to do so, if you are the creator.

Because if a product is "good", then it doesn't need additional advertising. People will simply notice it on-chain, and join it.

And if a product is "bad", then you have to convince enough people, to pump it properly, and then you can dump everything, when it becomes profitable, to just sell all of that, and cash out, by selling all of your easily-obtained ALTs for BTCs.

If you have an altcoin, then it is distributed from scratch, and created out of thin air. Creators are then early adopters, who can early-mine or pre-mine a lot of coins, and then sell them.

On the other hand, if you have "Bitcoin project", then it is 1:1 backed by BTCs. Which means, that you have to stick to the rules of Bitcoin. Which is hard, because you cannot just program anything you want (because your changes have to be accepted by the rest of the network, and you need consensus for that), and also, you have to buy real BTCs (which is expensive).

That's a very good question. I don't understand either why Binance, Coinbase, Crypto.com, Trezor, Ledger, BitPay, Bitrefill and similar companies don't advertise. Logically, they should be here but they aren't.

Bitcointalk was the only popular place where mixers could advertise. They were banned from Google and social media advertisements, so, where is the best place to advertise crypto projects next to them? Definitely a Bitcointalk comes to mind.

I think that the most legit answer lies in this question. They probably can't monetize it enough.

Well, this place used to be full of Bitcoin projects.  The problem has always been trolls.  Look at my Nasty project for example.  I raised $400 to run a home miner for the community, turned it into an organization worth over a million dollars, distributed nearly a thousand BTC to participants, sold thousands of physical coins made from precious metals, and the entire time all I've heard from members here is how I'm running some sort of ponzi scheme or scam.  Can you imagine spending more than a dozen years of your life running hot loud equipment in your house, paying all the electricity bills/air conditioning repairs, working with designers and manufacturers on products, dropping everything to engrave coins when they're ordered, responding to questions, and then have people leave you negative trust or bash your efforts as anything but altruistic on behalf of the Bitcoin community?  That's the environment people running Bitcoin projects have to deal with here.  The worst part, it's the people in default trust that enable and even support this behavior.

You will get lots of responses to your questions, but this is the only one that comes from someone with any experience actually running a real Bitcoin project here.

In my opinion, most of the gambling sites that are been advertised here are here because they have Bitcoin or cryptocurrency payments methods, and they are getting customers here on daily basis because people do play bet a lot; that’s why there is even competition between them just to attract more customers.

This forum is open for advertising anything that come its way, if it is legit, but the forum rules make it difficult for some projects or business that are shady to come here because they will lose every reputations they already have.

Mixers were advertised here before now, but it was banned earlier this year because of the type of activities that is not open to the public going on in mixers. Nevertheless, maybe other crypto related softwares, wallets, and others finds another suitable ways for their advertisement, but this forum is always welcoming them.

Bitcoin is all about usage and adoption, and if you have looked closely to bitcoin adoption and usage you will fine cryptocurrency casino on the front line along with excahges and other services providers and for sure gambling is a growing industry that have adopted cryptocurrency on a full scale and for the freedom to get advertised here in the forum without restriction like their have on the other social makes this forum the best place for them to advise their services.


This doesn't other services are not getting advertised over here but when you talk about long term signature campaign promotion then give that to gambling projects, and that because of the amount of resources their allocate to forum promotion compared to the other services like exchanges or Wallet promotions that are mostly short-term in nature

Asking the question is answering it: you already know them. Most advertising here comes from new sites who want new users.

Hi all!


I get the point, but I disagree that good projects don't need advertising. Pumping and dumping wouldn't have been a thing if people knew how to be cautious against scammers. I mean if someone sends you an invitation on X, claiming that  if you join now, they will award you a huge amount of tokens from their newly created ALT, then it's your responsibility to filter this proposal and decline. Isn't it?

If you have an altcoin, then it is distributed from scratch, and created out of thin air. Creators are then early adopters, who can early-mine or pre-mine a lot of coins, and then sell them.
[/quote]

Yeah, even ETH, which some people still think is a "good" altcoin, has done that. If I recall properly, the great majority of its tokens where pre-assigned to some people.

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I 'd love to have lived in this era of the forum. I 'm kinda new here, so...


This hasn't blocked you from running your project though. Besides, your profile has too many positive trust notes.
Having said that, I don't think the community here is capable to actually prevent a good project/business from being advertised.


If you look back, don't you think that perhaps your ability to develop a project in here has been possible due to the fact that Bitcoin was more affordable to be mined back then? Without of course diminishing the effort that you 've previously mentioned.

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That's what I also wondered about, but on a second thought...
They have their logos printed on the t-shirts of the best football teams!
They have banners all over the world, in significant buildings, squares etc.
So Loyce is right. They don't advertise here, because they don't need to.

There's generally less enthusiasm around the space, I can tell that. A few years ago, you would notice lots of topics about new stuff created and maintained, with fruitful discussion. Nowadays, it's just no longer like that. Bitcoin is seen as a digital gold, and that's pretty much it. Minimum cypherpunk spirit. This reality was extensively discussed in here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5497296.0.

Here's my take: This Bitcoin forum is full of people who want to get rich quick by gambling into shitcoins. If they can gamble on tokens made out of thin air, then they can definitely gamble on a casino.

Bitcoin development is difficult and slow, but what relevant product have you got in mind that could be advertised? For all I know, barely any open-source Bitcoin software was advertised here in the past, in signatures.

Well, I was pleased to see this initiative: Non-Profit Forum Signatures Initiative [+ Overview] (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5499027.0)

I am planning to start wearing signatures from there, as long as:

1. They are bitcoin related.
2. The product / project is not a scam (or looks like a scam).
3. I haven't found a good paid campaign that strictly follows bullets (1) and (2).

Well, yes, that's true but wouldn't it be a prestige for any company to run a signature campaign and be active on this forum? I feel confident when I use service that's promoted here and has an active support from the company. It makes me feel secure about the fact that if something goes wrong, the problem will be solved with the help of the community.

By the way, even when they launched their businesses, they didn't run a signature campaign for the first few weeks or months.

I think that extra $1000 bucks (for them bucks) weekly advertisement wouldn't be bad. I think that they should try, run signature campaign and test how it works. Probably, their marketing department has no idea about bitcointalk or don't take it seriously or their current plans work very well.

Take Coinbase for example. Google shows the current market cap is $50.95 billion and (in 2023) had 3,416 employees. They're on the stock market, that comes with corporate decision making. It's not a company where someone in the PR-department can easily get a couple thousand dollars per week in Bitcoin to pay for a signature campaign on Bitcointalk. Large corporations can't go around making anonymous payments to anonymous users on Bitcointalk. Some users here are from sanctioned countries, and sanction violation is not something they're going to risk.

You are maybe right, but some casinos are way more famous than Crypto.com, Trezor, Bitpay or Bitrefill and they still have ongoing signature campaigns here. In addition it doesn't explain why less known exchanges or other non-gambling platforms don't advertise here anymore. IMO this forum is less reputed than it used to be because despite the merit system, some sections are still too much spammed for being interesting to read, or even to stay readable unfortunately.

This is 100% the right reason. We are seeing too many casinos because casinos are the ones who share everything here, and since they know that their competition is here, they want to be here as well. I mean there aren't that many different type of companies in the crypto world neither, there are only three big industries that I can think of. One of them is casinos, the other is exchanges and another would be creating a token because devs are seeing that as a way of making money so it's their business.

Mixers are also another big one but we have seen mixers get banned here for some reason, and I believe that is why we have three big business's in the crypto world. Exchanges do not share here, tokens do and casinos do even more.

I always assumed casinos have much higher profit margins. Say someone wagers $10k at 2% house edge. That's $200 profit for the casino. Some users wager millions, which means tens of thousands in profit. Trezor may be able to sell 3 different hardware wallets to a very good customer, but that's where it ends. They need many different customers, casinos only need a few highly profitable ones.

I'd argue other platforms, such as social media, are much less interesting to read. But for some reason they have so much more users. I've even blocked Reddit from my computer, because every time Google brings me there, I get one post without the rest of the discussion. Social media have a terrible way of presenting data for people without any attention span.

Most casinos advertised in this forum are those that accept cryptocurrency for deposits and withdrawals so it is not out of place to have casinos advertised here. As much as I know, there is no limitations placed on projects to advertise here beyond the mixers and the few other services we already know so it is up to the projects to chose to advertise here or not. We also have anonymous exchanges run their advertisement here too, so it is not only casinos that are running advert here.

If you don't like gambling, you could just avoid the gambling section and allow us that have that as hobby to enjoy the freedom that cryptocurrency offers as it relates to gambling because before now, it was difficult for us to play in international casinos, but cryptocurrency made that possible and even easy for us. Casinos advertising here is a major source of traffic now so it should be a welcomed development.

I can say a bit more about hardware wallet companies like ledger, trezor and few others, because I know people who contacted them for signature campaign promotion.
Most of them were not ready to invest amount of money needed to have serious signature campaign.
Best we got was small promotions and giveaways from Satochip and Bitbox, but maybe this will change in future.
I remember the time when Trezor team members and Keystone owner was active in forum, but they turned more towards twitter I think.

Let me guess: they used the forum in their early days to get early adopters?

It only shows you don't like gambling but it doesn't change the fact that it has been here before now, nothing is wrong with this. I believe if the gambling section or board is been cleared out you would still have something to say you don't like, there are some members on the Forum that don't like things you like or bring as the next option or as your opinion. If you talk about Bitcoin development I feel we have those who are good at it but bringing it out is a bit difficult due to things you made mentioned, people do write Bitcoin related software but I believe they hardly put much interest to continue or bring it out.

Sadly or not, when the Linux mailing list closed, the developers moved their discussion to Google forums (yuck!)
If you want bitcoin discussion to be moved back here you've got a couple of things to blame.
1. New forum software taking forever.
2. Bitcoin developers deciding to move their discussion anywhere but here.

There's still a handful of devs here discussing but the discussion has gotten too fragmented. GitHub, Google forums, independent mailing lists for Taproot/Lightning/Core and then you have Blockstream tech, L2s and whatnot. Most BTC devs also post in an increasingly fragmented social media landscape. Twitter/Mastodons/Bluesky/Nostr... Also include web3 and Lightning social apps in that and it becomes even more chaotic.

All this is very hard to follow. Bitcointalk failed the network effect to a large extent. Honestly I'd say the devs are in part to blame for this and not the casinos. There's so much technical discussion to be had and it would be beneficial to have it in one place. If even 30% of the technical discussion for Bitcoin was happening here it would be comparably big if not larger to the casino discussion. But also for a plethora of reasons many people that develop bitcoin don't want to speak to each other much these days also. Which is yet another issue.

Many people develop Bitcoin these days, more people than ever are receiving funding to do so even, but for reasons that are different in each case, many devs aren't on speaking terms. Go figure. One of the largest open source projects can't even feature discussions on its supposedly dedicated forum. The magic of decentralization is truly haunting sometimes. Props to all the coordinators of bitcoin core that are tasked to put things together.

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There's also another point here that's actually serving as an answer to the OP that I'd like to delve in.

Cryptocurrency has got gentrified.

You can find discussion about it everywhere now. Facebook, Twitter, Discord etc.

Years ago much of the discussion around crypto was centered around this forum, not it's mostly everywhere else but including here.
Now since crypto is so accessible of course unlicensed gambling has become a very big market.
Unregistered casinos got their biggest issue solved for them without doing anything. Access. Now anyone can buy crypto easily and in most jurisdictions do so legally without any income checks. So crypto casinos help people evade the blocks their governments put on gambling. For example in the UK if you receive your income in undeclared payments you can't gamble, because legal casinos require income statements.

So really don't be surprised casinos are advertising here. Good on bitcointalk for not blocking them actually as Facebook and Google do. That was very illiberal for a service that isn't connected to real world harm and is in such high demand.

inb4 some people say it's ironic for me to say this while being paid to advertise a casino. Well, I'm not going to say no to some extra cash tbh. I'm not a huge fan of gambling either but what I also don't like is cost of opportunity.

ps. I'd really appreciate if some of these companies benefiting from BTC would also contribute here. Nobody seems to blame them for not doing so. Maybe we're a tough crowd either way.

You're kidding, right? Depending on who you believe, up to a few percent of the population is addicted to gambling, and that causes many problems. Gambling is designed to be addictive, while it's designed to make the user feel like they're "lucky", "in charge" or "good at it".
Gambling for fun is okay, and that's what most people who occasionally gamble do, but you can't ignore the large amount of people with gambling problems.

No doubt gambling causes real issues but it's not a violent market like drugs, guns etc.
But also you have to consider that the addiction caused by gambling is very much a societal issue. If a government isn't willing to deal with it and let's licensed casinos fleece so many of their citizens then it would be the government I would blame first.

Most people that lose substantial amounts of money do it on licensed casinos anyway. They are SA companies too so you can see their income statements. It's crazy how much turnover they have. Most crypto casinos could only dream of that.

I think this is the most logical explanation. Casinos advertise on the forum because they have the resources to do so. And they don’t advertise only on this forum; they have multiple platforms. At the same time, I wouldn’t say that they incur particularly high expenses on signature campaigns, considering their profits.

I’m not sure if it’s appropriate to compare casinos with Bitcoin projects; I also don’t think the latter have less money for advertising. But one thing is clear: casinos definitely see returns on their advertising. It’s much easier to click on a signature link, visit a casino site, and play a few games than to visit and try to understand complex Bitcoin products. Casinos can monetize user interest from ad clicks far more effectively, while Bitcoin projects cannot, as a visit to their sites doesn’t guarantee organic new customers. Such ads may simply serve to inform the audience that a particular product exists, without necessarily increasing the number of actual users.

Casinos are mostly advertised here because there is no restriction unlike social media because some country highly frown gambling and wouldn't want it to be advertised on social media, hence, here is a forum that is not mostly open to government or any entity for easy attack or restrictions apart from theymos doing that.

But then, here in the forum there are lot of gamblers and the forum doesn't frown gambling and sincerely gambling is another thing that is keeping the forum very active because most of the gambling site advertised here has gain trust from reputable users here and people can gamble so easily through the casinos that are advertised here than other places, even though there are local casinos but the cryptocurrency/Bitcoin casinos are mostly advertised here since here is the origin of bitcoin discussion and other altcoin it's ideal to advertise theme here to gain the attention needed and for their dreams to comes through.

Even though you don't like gambling or you not support gambling I must say, gambling is what that has been keeping our youth going and it's our core duty to maintain a safe gambling practice than easily getting addicted.
For instance, launching a bitcoin or cryptocurrency casino without starting their journey from the origins seems that they have not started yet and it's always a pleasure for them to start their journey here and even though they decided to leave after having gained the attention or exposure needed then it's fine. Again no manager or campaign manager tell why other services or project aren't launched here because they don't produce campaign or projects rather, it's the projects owners that contact them.

Like we know if there is any projects they will be announced here, and as so know no project that replace bitcoin can be created instead it would be alt (a kind of taped knowledge) to be like bitcoin but it can never be, so I don't think it should be a thing of concerned or something to beat us up.

There isn't a dedicated forum, though it might seem like there is, probably by the perception that Satoshi created this forum. In reality, all platforms act as decentralized discussion boards, which is why there isn't a single, official forum. Bitcoin has no central points.

Gambling was, is and will always be addictive. There's no government to blame about that, just as there is no one to blame about drugs being addictive. Government intervention cannot stop the inevitable; at some point, we have to accept that there are people in this world that can be victims of gambling. This is their problem.

The only thing that the government can accomplish by intervening in the gambling sector is create casino monopolies.

Apogio raised some interesting questions in the OP with respect to monetization of crypto programs in respect to gambling casinos or the bookies and I think this is a good answer to that. One of the sole reason why your always going to find this and that gambling site in the business of signatures and frankly, I think it’s okay. Not just because I gamble but, it’s just business.


Interestingly, there isn’t many places where we get to use Bitcoins and a couple of them Altcoins directly. Most times you do need the services of exchangers to have them in fiat and utilize it to solve a problem but, gambling sites avails you that privilege. They remain one of the few places you could actually utilize cryptocurrencies for a currency. That in itself tells you, they have a place wherever cryptocurrency is mentioned.
I haven’t seen them to have been over done in any case.

It is especially common in Muslim countries. Playing casino games is considered a crime in Muslim countries. And Muslim countries do not support casinos or this gambling game in any way, so they do not allow casino games to be advertised in different media of their country. But now it appears that so much ban means no less more now casinos and gambling advertise.

I have seen no other sector where casino games can be played so beautifully without hesitation. I've never seen a system to promote casino sites so beautifully anywhere other than this forum. Although I am new here but as far as I understand and see this forum is one of the most important place to promote casino games from where many easy to play games from reputed casino sites. It has become such a trusted medium where casino sites are being promoted that big casino game players dare to play the game freely.

The thing about gambling is that you can make a profit very easily with little effort, but here it is said that many people lose a lot of money from here, that's why many people don't like gambling, but if you learn well and understand it, then I think you can get entry from here. Easy to earn. Again, you can't be too greedy here, you have to stay within a limit. Whenever it is seen that you take entry in the hope of getting more, it is seen that everything including your own balance is lost, so I think that if you can play casino games with understanding, then it is more than here. Amount can be earned in short time.

You are right, this makes sense. They are a huge company and are under radar of every government and financial institutes. If they were about to run a signature campaign, I believe it would be KYC verified and on contract level because otherwise like you said, they might be in trouble because it can turn into a huge scandal if one of their signature campaign participant is from sanctioned country or is a criminal in reality.

This is true also. Being famous doesn't mean there is no necessity of extra marketing. Procter & Gamble is probably one of the most famous company in the world but yet, they spend the most amount of money on advertisement.

This is very interesting, I didn't know if they were contacted for signature campaign promotion. I wish I was there during that time when Vitalik Buterin, Charlie Lee and founders of other famous coins/companies were active on this forum.
This forum still has a potential to be the most popular space for discussion but it will require significant changes, including hiring a team of professionals in different industries but I think that won't happen.

Some of those companies mentioned above probably will never show up in this forum ever again. Bitpay is a good example. These guys were actively trying to push their big block agenda and they delayed segwit update for a long time. When they were doing that, people in this forum were also actively promoting btcpay and cursing bitpay. So,  I don't think bitpay will ever come here and advertise their services.

I think some similar stuff also happened with coinbase.

Binance

and one of those hw wallet companies which had ridiculous demands forgot which one it was

They will come here create an account and then what?

The DT will tag and flag them red  8)

Their journey in this forum has ended long before it even started.

Being famous doesn't require excessive marketing, that's right, but what they wanted was to try to get too much exposure by promoting the modern world for which it happened. It seems to me that the only reason they spend so much money behind the campaign is because they are trying to gain popularity overnight. It seems to me that this is what you think.

You think this forum is likely to be the most popular for discussion but I think this forum is the most popular for discussion. Here you have raised a point by appointing a group of different artist professionals through which the forum will change but if you want to create a separate group of artist professionals then you will see that whoever is placed in that art will talk about that art and not about any other art. This seems to me to degenerate the discussion into the current system which seems to be the most beautiful. I think this forum is popular for discussion because everyone can express his/her mind and everyone can get a rough idea about all the sectors and question any problem.

At least there are still many signature campaigns related to altcoins, such as those we can find on the bounty board. But Casinos do dominate. it's just that it doesn't matter because some of these casinos also accept deposits with crypto or crypto casinos.

But it would really be great if in the future there would be some signature campaigns related to new crypto exchanges or something like that here. Although there were several who were present here. But I hope there will be more.

Oh yes, currently there is also a crptomus here who advertises his services through a signature campaign handled by Mr. AB de Royse777 here and we know Crptomus provides crypto payment services. And yeah that's a good thing. so yeah it seems like the signature campaign on this forum doesn't still have any color other than casinos.:-*

That's incorrect. Considering the competition in each industry, a project or brand that doesn't constantly advertise or promote itself starts to fade out of the limelight. This makes it a necessity for every brand, project, or firm to keep promoting itself and its products and run giveaways and promotions to keep its customers engaged and attract new customers to their business.

Do you know that every company, firm, or project has a specific monthly revenue budget dedicated only to promotional campaigns and advertisements that run throughout the month? They hire marketing experts to plan and execute their marketing campaigns; after all, marketing makes a brand or project stand out.

Companies that maintain quality will undoubtedly retain their customers, but marketing is essential to keeping the business flowing and attracting new customers, no matter how popular the company or project.

Yes ok, I also know that the popularity of every project does not depend only on the medium of promotion. However, each project has its own guidelines on how to move forward with their progress. But to attract customers towards their project various offers are exposed through campaigns. Some projects spend a lot of money on campaigning but it turns out that it doesn't achieve the desired success that's why I said campaign alone is not everything to take a project forward.

Yes of course I know this because every company, firm or project has a monthly budget based on which campaigns are run. They work sector wise to take their projects forward.

Customer service must be ensured to maintain quality standards. Marketing systems must be kept in mind to ensure customer service and move forward. The better the marketing system, the better the project will progress.

I was in contact with both Ledger and Trezor a few years back regarding marketing on bitcointalk. Trezor said they'd consider it (but never looked into it further) while the ledger rep I was talking to asked what I could do with a $500/month marketing budget. lol

It's good news that big wallet companies like Trezor and Ledger are ready or have intention to run their marketing in Bitcointalk. It shows that they still consider Bitcointalk forum as one of good places for marketing.

They are both not too serious with marketing idea here, even they are opened with this idea. Especially Ledger with budget they intended to spend in PM with you. Trezor perhaps have better intention for marketing here, but if they want to spend $500 monthly like Ledger, they will be the same, not too serious with marketing here.

$500 monthly budget for marketing is like for a start up, not for big companies like Trezor and Ledger.

I’m not sure that would even be enough - the budget is too small to expect a positive marketing result. Even for a signature campaign, some campaigns are paying over $1,000 per week to make it effective. If the budget’s too low, it’s probably better not to advertise at all; otherwise, it’s just wasted money. And, of course, experienced campaign managers like Hhampuz know this and likely wouldn’t agree to run a campaign with such a limited budget.

I was once contacted by ledger as well a few years ago, when I wrote some articles in a popular crypto magazine in Brazil. They sent me 2 new devices and gave me some ref codes, but that was it. Never paid me anything.... So I just wrote a review about the devices they sent me, which were pretty good (ledger reputation was much better that time)

I think they prefer to use this method of sending free devices to youtubers and social media promoters, instead of paying money for signature campaigns.
Not long ago I worked with Satochip for a while and we had similar giveaway with their HW cards for bicointalk community.
I also think that exchanges are better suited for signature promotion in forum than hardware wallets.

Out of curiousity, did they approach you? This would mean that, at least, they have the option deep inside their heads.
I like Trezor, I dislike Ledger, but I would promote both of them, since I am strongly in favour of well established hardware devices.

I initiated the contact, and explained bitcointalk to them  :D

But this was back in... 2017/2018 can't remember, just a long ass time ago.

I keep forgetting I am the one who is new in the forum!  :P

Trezor was the most reputable device back then, being one of the oldest in the sector.

The thing is, if you contacted them in 2017-18 then perhaps today, having much stronger financial statuses, they may consider a better deal. Or they may not consider a deal at all because of the same reason  :-[

I'd expect them to be even less interested: they already have more customers, while Bitcointalk has less active users than it used to have..

Me too, but you never know. By the way, I 'd be interested to see data concerning the number of daily active users. I would like to compare the difference between the number of active users depending on if they wear a paid signature or not. Do you have any related data in your data paradise (https://loyce.club/)?

I have this old weekly data (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5032314.0), which you can compare to current data (https://loyce.club/active/7d.html). But those are only active posters, I have no data on "guests".

Did BitPay want to advertise on this forum? By the way, Wasabi Wallet relaunched their signature campaign after the ban of mixers despite the fact that people were cursing Wasabi :D

@Wonder Work,
All I'm saying is that if Bitcointalk hires a team of web developers, marketers, project managers and so on, just like Reddit, this forum will become a very popular place in the crypto world.

P.S. I didn't say that being famous doesn't require excessive marketing, I said quite the opposite.

$500 a month? Really? I think that that was a polite no from them :D

Do as you wish but if I were you, I wouldn't promote Ledger because Ledger is a shady company. They have been promising that keys never left the secure chip but then came up with an update called Ledger Recover. Promoting them is a harm to my mind.

Any company would never know the benefit of marketing in the Bitcointalk community unless they have tried it at least for once. I wont blame them, they don't trust their instincts when it comes to marketing their products. If not for anything the entire companies that has run their marketing in the forum are not stupid, if they don't see the benefit they wont do it in the first place.

$500 per month budget is too small. Did you give them a response or you just ignore the conversation?

What I believe is also a reason why hardware wallet companies are not eager to advertise their products in this forum or aren't ready to spend a lot of money on it is that they are pretty much receiving free advertisement thanks to Bitcoin and its adoption. Anywhere on the internet, including this forum, when a newbie asks what wallet they should use to store their Bitcoin safely, most people would tell them to use hardware wallets and suggest a few names, which usually have Ledger or Trezor in them. Even if they aren't given names, once people say they should buy hardware wallets, they search for them and will probably reach the ones primarily used and suggested in articles, blogs, etc.

Most of us promote their services and products without getting paid, and they probably know this. This might not be why they are not interested in promoting themselves here, but I'm just saying they are already getting promoted without spending money on it.

I told them the budget didn't make sense, saying they could instead offer free hardware or discounts whatever and try that route but they never got back to me.

I don't believe there's a thing like "enough revenue", when there is a way to make more. These companies want as much profit as possible so there can only be enough when there's no other way to make more.
I read something in the comments when a user said it may be because of lack of KYC on the forum or something like that and I agree.

I also agree more gambling sites are here because of there are no much restrictions. Social media like Facebook, twitter, Tiktok don't allow gambling ads, and even if they do, there are so many restrictions that prevents them from getting their money's worth, but with this forum,they can bypass all that.

Gambling is hugely profitable so that's why they advertise here as they're one of the only industries that probably see signature campaigns as worth it. For others it's probably not profitable or they don't have the budgets to throw around on such advertising. The are a few exchanges that advertise though and they are probably the second biggest advertisers here.