Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin => Hardware => Topic started by: norgan on April 24, 2014, 05:30:29 AM



Title: BFL Experience
Post by: norgan on April 24, 2014, 05:30:29 AM
I just wanted to share my recent experience with Butterfly Labs as I see they have copped a lot of negative feedback. I bought a BFL Single second hand in a non working condition and upon contacting BFL they were happy to repair the device under warranty. They even allowed me to pull it apart and send only the base board to save on shipping. It got sent back within 2 days of arriving at their office and they have been nothing but helpful.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: jimmothy on April 24, 2014, 05:44:16 AM
I just wanted to share my recent experience with Butterfly Labs as I see they have copped a lot of negative feedback. I bought a BFL Single second hand in a non working condition and upon contacting BFL they were happy to repair the device under warranty. They even allowed me to pull it apart and send only the base board to save on shipping. It got sent back within 2 days of arriving at their office and they have been nothing but helpful.

Thanks for sharing.

Did you read the part where BFL stole millions of dollars and failed to deliver their under-specification hardware within even 8 months or give refunds?

I would rather pay a homeless man to slap myself in the face than order from bfl again.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: norgan on April 24, 2014, 06:07:00 AM
I get that was a significant issue but to me, having only dealt with them on this one transaction, they have been amazing. Perhaps they meant well and tried to deliver but had issues and are now really trying to do the right thing.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: jimmothy on April 24, 2014, 06:09:35 AM
I get that was a significant issue but to me, having only dealt with them on this one transaction, they have been amazing. Perhaps they meant well and tried to deliver but had issues and are now really trying to do the right thing.

You would think that. But we are now 6 months past the original shipping date for monarchs proving that yet again (3rd time so far) they lied about shipping dates.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: southerngentuk on April 24, 2014, 06:10:31 AM
Well they got to find something to do with the staff that is left and all the components that aren't worth a dime now.

In reality they have given you there trash, but thumbs up that they paid the return postage ( I Hope )  ::)


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Bicknellski on April 24, 2014, 06:21:09 AM
How would you explain all the abusive behavior in these forums from Inaba, BFL_Josh towards those who were / are customers merely asking basic questions on shipping and problems with their units? All of the bans and post deletions from the BFL forums for similar questions and complaints? Also that BFL is trying to buy trust ratings in this forum to bolster their profile and sell more Monarchs?

It might be that your singular experience they are a great company to deal with but there is more than enough evidence to point to the fact they are one of the worst companies in Bitcoin at this time. The multiple lawsuits are just the tip of the iceberg and it is clear that Sonny V. has a probation officer that has read mounds of reports to the fact BFL has not been doing business very ethically. You don't get 2 more years probation without some just reasoning. Read the arstechnica article and some of the lawsuits and them come back and comment on that.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/04/digging-for-answers-the-strong-smell-of-fraud-from-one-bitcoin-miner-maker/

I might ask what did you purchase from BFL and when did you purchase it? And when did it arrive?

Nothing to hide?

Quote
One of the noteworthy revelations is that Butterfly Labs acquired a local Kansas-based Bitcoin mining pool, Eclipse Mining Consortium, for $100,000 in 2012. The pool's founder, Josh Zerlan, is now a vice president at BFL. (Zerlan publicly announced that he took a job with BFL in 2012, but he did not mention that he actually sold his company to BFL. Zerlan did not respond to a request for comment for this article.)


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: norgan on April 24, 2014, 07:33:33 AM
I bought a broken 30Gh/s unit locally here in Australia. It was clearly water damaged (maybe just for being outside) but I had bought it for $80 taking a punt that I may be able to fix it.
I was considering JTAG'ing it but then contacted BFL on a whim.

They replied overnight and stated that they'd fix it, even though I said I took it apart, bought it second hand and broken at that.
It's now back in Australia with return postage paid (I just paid to ship it there) and should have it in the next day or so (Aust. Post being stupid).

Full credit for BFL for standing behind their products and at the cost to me so far, that machine will surely be profitable before long. (yes I know, it's slow. but I am just having fun with it for now).

So bottom line, that would have to be the best customer service hands down that I have ever received. 


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: jimmothy on April 24, 2014, 07:46:35 AM
Quote
So bottom line, that would have to be the best customer service hands down that I have ever received

This is almost starting to sound shilly..

You don't see anything wrong with advocating/supporting a company which has openly scammed a majority of their customers and is facing many lawsuits along with over 1000 FTC complaints?

Sounds to me like "Even though bernie madoff stole billions of dollars, he seemed like a nice guy when I spoke with him. Would highly recommend doing business."


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: arorts on April 24, 2014, 08:06:04 AM
I bought a broken 30Gh/s unit locally here in Australia. It was clearly water damaged (maybe just for being outside) but I had bought it for $80 taking a punt that I may be able to fix it.
I was considering JTAG'ing it but then contacted BFL on a whim.

They replied overnight and stated that they'd fix it, even though I said I took it apart, bought it second hand and broken at that.
It's now back in Australia with return postage paid (I just paid to ship it there) and should have it in the next day or so (Aust. Post being stupid).

Full credit for BFL for standing behind their products and at the cost to me so far, that machine will surely be profitable before long. (yes I know, it's slow. but I am just having fun with it for now).

So bottom line, that would have to be the best customer service hands down that I have ever received. 

Providing a warranty for an existing product that already has been built is absolutely no big deal.
Although you had a great experience and that's awesome, your case is no bigger  than a grain of salt in the sea of constant, severe and shocking failures and mess that BFL left behind.
So in the greater picture, no, the world will still remember BFL as the worst ASIC mining company ever in mankind history, including customer experience.

Just to put things in a bit of perspective ;-)


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Bicknellski on April 24, 2014, 08:13:17 AM
Let me get this straight...

1. You didn't buy directly from BFL.
2. You bought a unit made by BFL that had failed due to "water damage" not something else like a straight up product failure.
3. You got an immediate reply for RMA and they repaired it / replaced it even though you admitted you were not the original purchaser? (That is counter to the 100's of RMA complaints of paid customers in hundreds of posts in multiple locations) What year and month was your RMA?
4. That tells you, ignoring all the other threads and complaints, they are a great company that stands behind their products?

I guess your experience proves you got exceptional service. What it doesn't prove is a pattern and given the 100's of complaints posted regarding RMA, slow email response times I might question the veracity of your statement without evidence. We have seen unfortunately a sustained pattern from BFL to use multiple accounts and paid people to promote BFL. How about we see some documentation of the RMA paperwork? Pictures of the unit and the water damage and then the replacement or repaired unit?

I hate that we can't actually trust someone but given the lengths that BFL goes to spread misinformation and promote itself as reputable player in the market you just can't accept things at face value.

I see you still have yet to respond to the questions I asked about the evidence against BFL, the rude and uncalled for behavior of Josh Zerlan here on these forums and BFL forums to customer queries? Hundreds of deleted posts and banned customers? I wonder why you want to avoid that discussion at all? That is typically what many paid promoters of BFL have done in the past. That doesn't really strike me as genuine. I am not trying to argue with you if you have the evidence and I am sure that on occasion BFL has done the right thing but given the evidence it is hard to believe you can't see all the negatives.

Check this thread to see what I mean:https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=344105.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=344105.0)

Here is a sample: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=324891.msg3481907#msg3481907

Quote
we have been getting reports for DOA jalla Bfl miners crapping out . Took BFL two weeks to answer the email then consumers shipped the jalla back and weeks later still waiting. Total time mining for consumer 2 weeks .Total wait time 7 months two weeks and yet to get a return miner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EskGPF5EN4Q


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: reactor on April 24, 2014, 11:59:58 AM
I think someone just decided to start a new thread to get Bicknellski all fired up...


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Bicknellski on April 24, 2014, 12:10:51 PM
My biggest question is what is the BFL plan going forward.  When they originally started selling, 5GH, 30GH, 60GH, and the whopper were all great offers for the money.

Now we're in a world of still current vaporware from KNC, Bitfury, a screwed up Avalon situation, and people itching for the new AM blades.  Every one of those products is offering a better (Hash x Timeframe x Price x Difficulty estimates) => value right now considering ordering a Jalapeno today may see it get to you in October/November.  

So while I'm pretty confident I'll get my 30GH/s unit (and had a very positive experience with BFL customer service after the week+ wait to hear back), I can't say it'll be more hash-valuable than my little farm of usbs right now (currently at 8HG).  And getting a Jalapeno at 5GH now is almost pointless, so are we going to hear about a next generation?  Are early customers going to see some form of discount on v2 hardware since when we paid the value was there and when most of us take ownership it won't be?  It's a long, tough situation, but like most other scenarios it is throwing money at a company with no guarantee of delivery.

I'd love to hear the BFL 2014 plan.


How are your Monarch orders everyone? BFL 2014 plan Reactor? Same as 2013 and 2012 late product and not hope in hell to ROI.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: norgan on April 24, 2014, 12:55:43 PM
Bicknellski, I have not had any experience of that and I don't doubt it has happened. I am simply stating that I've not experienced it directly and in fact quite the opposite.

I would be happy to post photos of the damaged device and will ask if they mind if I include transcripts of the emails we have had.

1. You didn't buy directly from BFL. - Nope
2. You bought a unit made by BFL that had failed due to "water damage" not something else like a straight up product failure. - yup, inspected myself, surprised the board wasn't completely screwed based on the look of it.
3. You got an immediate reply for RMA and they repaired it / replaced it even though you admitted you were not the original purchaser? (That is counter to the 100's of RMA complaints of paid customers in hundreds of posts in multiple locations) What year and month was your RMA? yup, this was only this month.
4. That tells you, ignoring all the other threads and complaints, they are a great company that stands behind their products? not ignoring anything, I just wanted to share a positive experience in amongst all this negativity.

I will take photos of the repaired board once I get it and post them side by side of how I received it.

I totally get your scepticism and appreciate the issues BFL have been experiencing/causing. I am pretty new to mining and learning a lot fast but I do know customer service having worked in the IT industry for almost 20 years now and this is one of the best experiences I've had. Not perfect mind you as they had put the wrong postal code on the package so it got a little lost but has been found now and should be with me after the long weekend.

More than happy to answer any and all other questions you may have. Feel free to message me direct if you wish to have a more frank discussion or want to verify my independence/Identity.



Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: xingqiaoyin on April 24, 2014, 01:07:54 PM
Made me wonder
There are members right now complaining about bitmain bad RMA policies in antminer thread and goes as far as saying they have become worse than BFL  ::)

Now...someone popped in here saying what a great RMA experience with BFL  ::)


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: gagalady on April 24, 2014, 02:03:14 PM
They are nice when the deal isn't big for them.. But they are not so nice when the deal comes to more solid price.  It's just like getting feedbacks for doing "small" things and then scam on some big fish. It's just balancing good deal, good deal, bad deal, and other 5 good deals and so on..


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Inaba on April 24, 2014, 03:18:38 PM
Let me clear up a few points here real quick:

  • BFL stole nothing. Unless someone can provide some proof to the contrary, they are lying.
  • BFL has scammed no one. Unless someone can provide proof to the contrary, they are lying. (Go on, ask for proof from the trolls claiming scams, you'll never get it.)
  • BFL gave refund for over six months past the estimated shipping date. BFL only stopped giving refunds after shipping started. Anyone who tells you differently is lying.
  • There was no promised shipping date for the Monarch line and in fact there were big bold text stating that it is a preorder and subject to delay. Anyone who tells you the Monarch is late and that BFL made promises on delivery time is lying.
  • BFL has shipped over 50,000 products in the 65nm line. The failure rate is less than 1% (0.72%) not including power supplies.  If you include power supplies, that goes to 1.65%.  Far lower than industry average and a simply awesome (lack of) failure rate. Contrast to the other mining companies equipment, which has double digit failure rates and it's even better.  Anyone who tells you differently is lying.
  • OP's experience is the norm. People rarely come to a forum to post when they have a positive experience, they usually come and post to complain. After 50,000 units shipped and you look at the complaints, that should tell you something.  Most people are not complaining, just a handful of disgruntled people and a whole lot of trolls who aren't even customers.
  • The only people who get rude responses from me are people who initiate a conversation with rudeness or lies. Go on, ask one of the trolls to provide proof to the contrary, you won't find it.  The secret is being respectful and polite and you get the same in return.  Be an asshole and you get the same in return... funny how that works.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: markj113 on April 24, 2014, 03:30:59 PM
sitting back with the popcorn waiting for the onslaught to start  :-X


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Xian01 on April 24, 2014, 03:35:30 PM
So bottom line, that would have to be the best customer service hands down that I have ever received.  

 I hope you can appreciate that a 10 post newbie making such an outrageously bizarre claim gives us pause.

 Your experience is not reflective of the experiences many people on these forums have had. I recommend you dig deeper into the history of this company before praising their customer service as "the best customer service hands down"; I can only deduce that you do not have much customer service experience dealing with other vendors, if you are rating this one so highly.

 Given the fact that there have been "thousands" of complaints (my own, included) as revealed in the most recent court documents, I would urge you to do more research.

 IMHO, you do yourself a disservice by publicly standing up for Butterfly Labs.

EDIT: For reference;

http://www.woodlaw.com/cases/butterfly-labs-and-bf-labs-inc-bitcoin-miners

http://www.scribd.com/doc/217190032/Butterfly-Labs-Production-of-Requested-Information-December-6-2013
http://www.scribd.com/doc/217190033/Defendant-s-Memorandum-in-Opposition-to-Show-Cause-and-Violation-Report-Sept-3-2013
http://www.scribd.com/doc/217190031/2014-01-28-USA-v-Vleisides-Transcript

THE COURT : "Now, there is a stench coming from Butterfly Labs. It's a strong smell. It's not enough to send you to prison today, because, to be quite honest with you, if it was, we'd be talking about 24 months in prison. It's not -- I think it's too close. I think Mr. Bourne did a very good job of testifying, and it assisted your defense greatly. But if I find out that there is this fraud word involved in this part, you know, Mr. Vleisides, as we say here at the courthouse, you need to get your toothbrush and get your things in order, because fraud will not be tolerated, you understand that? So I would work very hard to make these consumers happy consumers who you've dealt with."


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: jimmothy on April 24, 2014, 03:44:49 PM
Let me clear up nothing real quick:

  • BFL stole nothing. Unless someone can provide some proof to the contrary, they are lying.


https://coinreport.net/butterfly-labs-civil-lawsuit/

Quote
  • BFL has scammed no one. Unless someone can provide proof to the contrary, they are lying. (Go on, ask for proof from the trolls claiming scams, you'll never get it.)

Delivering non-advertised product 6+ months later than advertised date along with no refunds = scamming.

Quote
  • There was no promised shipping date for the Monarch line and in fact there were big bold text stating that it is a preorder and subject to delay. Anyone who tells you the Monarch is late and that BFL made promises on delivery time is lying.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/deceit

Quote
  • BFL has shipped over 50,000 products in the 65nm line. The failure rate is less than 1% (0.72%) not including power supplies.  If you include power supplies, that goes to 1.65%.  Far lower than industry average and a simply awesome (lack of) failure rate. Contrast to the other mining companies shittiest mining companies equipment, which has double digit failure rates and it's even better.  Anyone who tells you differently is lying.

FTFY

Quote
  • OP's experience is the norm. People rarely come to a forum to post when they have a positive experience, they usually come and post to complain. After 50,000 units shipped and you look at the complaints, that should tell you something.  Most people are not complaining, just a handful of disgruntled people and a whole lot of trolls who aren't even customers.

People rarely come to post positive experience? What about spondoolies/asicminer/bitfury/bitmain/chinese miners/all the non-shit companies?

It is amazing that with only 50,000 units shipped you managed to rack up over 1,000 FTC/PP complaints. Must be some sort of record.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Bicknellski on April 24, 2014, 04:16:05 PM
Let me clear up nothing real quick:

  • BFL stole nothing. Unless someone can provide some proof to the contrary, they are lying.


https://coinreport.net/butterfly-labs-civil-lawsuit/

Quote
  • BFL has scammed no one. Unless someone can provide proof to the contrary, they are lying. (Go on, ask for proof from the trolls claiming scams, you'll never get it.)

Delivering non-advertised product 6+ months later than advertised date along with no refunds = scamming.

Quote
  • There was no promised shipping date for the Monarch line and in fact there were big bold text stating that it is a preorder and subject to delay. Anyone who tells you the Monarch is late and that BFL made promises on delivery time is lying.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/deceit

Quote
  • BFL has shipped over 50,000 products in the 65nm line. The failure rate is less than 1% (0.72%) not including power supplies.  If you include power supplies, that goes to 1.65%.  Far lower than industry average and a simply awesome (lack of) failure rate. Contrast to the other mining companies shittiest mining companies equipment, which has double digit failure rates and it's even better.  Anyone who tells you differently is lying.

FTFY

Quote
  • OP's experience is the norm. People rarely come to a forum to post when they have a positive experience, they usually come and post to complain. After 50,000 units shipped and you look at the complaints, that should tell you something.  Most people are not complaining, just a handful of disgruntled people and a whole lot of trolls who aren't even customers.

People rarely come to post positive experience? What about spondoolies/asicminer/bitfury/bitmain/chinese miners/all the non-shit companies?

It is amazing that with only 50,000 units shipped you managed to rack up over 1,000 FTC/PP complaints. Must be some sort of record.

The truth certainly will not change what Inaba says he is morally and ethically bankrupt Jimmothy. Soon he will be selling out Sonny V. for his own freedom. The end is coming for BFL and old Joshy better get his own lawyer before he gets thrown under the bus.

And the OP can post his evidence here... he doesn't need to email me. Let the community decide whether his evidence passes muster. Again given the horrible treatment of customers that is well documented particularly the FTC complaints when BFL was NOT giving refunds when they were legally required to do so is something that the probation officer needs for Sonny V. needs to be made aware of. You can't ignore the reality. BFL are morally and ethically challenged and will do anything they can to keep this racket going for a long as they can. There will be plenty of evidence coming to light soon enough that will scatter the cockroaches.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: faronwong on April 24, 2014, 04:41:07 PM
Let me clear up a few points here real quick:

  • BFL stole nothing. Unless someone can provide some proof to the contrary, they are lying.
  • BFL has scammed no one. Unless someone can provide proof to the contrary, they are lying. (Go on, ask for proof from the trolls claiming scams, you'll never get it.)
  • BFL gave refund for over six months past the estimated shipping date. BFL only stopped giving refunds after shipping started. Anyone who tells you differently is lying.
  • There was no promised shipping date for the Monarch line and in fact there were big bold text stating that it is a preorder and subject to delay. Anyone who tells you the Monarch is late and that BFL made promises on delivery time is lying.
  • BFL has shipped over 50,000 products in the 65nm line. The failure rate is less than 1% (0.72%) not including power supplies.  If you include power supplies, that goes to 1.65%.  Far lower than industry average and a simply awesome (lack of) failure rate. Contrast to the other mining companies equipment, which has double digit failure rates and it's even better.  Anyone who tells you differently is lying.
  • OP's experience is the norm. People rarely come to a forum to post when they have a positive experience, they usually come and post to complain. After 50,000 units shipped and you look at the complaints, that should tell you something.  Most people are not complaining, just a handful of disgruntled people and a whole lot of trolls who aren't even customers.
  • The only people who get rude responses from me are people who initiate a conversation with rudeness or lies. Go on, ask one of the trolls to provide proof to the contrary, you won't find it.  The secret is being respectful and polite and you get the same in return.  Be an asshole and you get the same in return... funny how that works.


Inaba you are an absolute ballbag living off innocent peoples conned money being cheeky to your customers sick of reading your offensive comments and the sooner you and BFL crew are all behind bars the better for the BTC community. Scammed = taking money off someone and not giving them what they paid for nearly a year later. Ordered a 5gh BFL machine and so glad i cancelled it days later. Had this gut feeling in my stomach- THAT YOU ARE A SLIMEY HORRIBLE CUNT


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Syke on April 24, 2014, 07:20:33 PM
  • BFL stole nothing. Unless someone can provide some proof to the contrary, they are lying.

BFL mines with customer hardware on the mining pool they secretly own (EclipseMC). That is stealing.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/217190032/Butterfly-Labs-Production-of-Requested-Information-December-6-2013

Quote
Butterfly Labs earns mining income from their burn testing of machines


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Siddhartha on April 24, 2014, 07:58:04 PM
Let me clear up a few points here real quick:

  • BFL stole nothing. Unless someone can provide some proof to the contrary, they are lying.
  • BFL has scammed no one. Unless someone can provide proof to the contrary, they are lying. (Go on, ask for proof from the trolls claiming scams, you'll never get it.)
  • BFL gave refund for over six months past the estimated shipping date. BFL only stopped giving refunds after shipping started. Anyone who tells you differently is lying.
  • There was no promised shipping date for the Monarch line and in fact there were big bold text stating that it is a preorder and subject to delay. Anyone who tells you the Monarch is late and that BFL made promises on delivery time is lying.
  • BFL has shipped over 50,000 products in the 65nm line. The failure rate is less than 1% (0.72%) not including power supplies.  If you include power supplies, that goes to 1.65%.  Far lower than industry average and a simply awesome (lack of) failure rate. Contrast to the other mining companies equipment, which has double digit failure rates and it's even better.  Anyone who tells you differently is lying.
  • OP's experience is the norm. People rarely come to a forum to post when they have a positive experience, they usually come and post to complain. After 50,000 units shipped and you look at the complaints, that should tell you something.  Most people are not complaining, just a handful of disgruntled people and a whole lot of trolls who aren't even customers.
  • The only people who get rude responses from me are people who initiate a conversation with rudeness or lies. Go on, ask one of the trolls to provide proof to the contrary, you won't find it.  The secret is being respectful and polite and you get the same in return.  Be an asshole and you get the same in return... funny how that works.


Inaba you are an absolute ballbag living off innocent peoples conned money being cheeky to your customers sick of reading your offensive comments and the sooner you and BFL crew are all behind bars the better for the BTC community. Scammed = taking money off someone and not giving them what they paid for nearly a year later. Ordered a 5gh BFL machine and so glad i cancelled it days later. Had this gut feeling in my stomach- THAT YOU ARE A SLIMEY HORRIBLE CUNT

Gets a new account and causes some myther between people. Logs in own account and stirs it even more.

Josh 'inaba' cockroach is laughing at you all and you don't see it. He won't see any jail or anything from any of this and he knows it! Yes, he's a silver spooned only child who as no empathy or compassion for others but thats what makes these cockroaches what they are and why they don't care and never will.

I hope i'm wrong but i'm certain on this, The global corruption is epidemic and once you see what its really doing these articles make me laugh even more.

BTW josh, Fuck you you crack whore freak show, Even if you avoid jail people will know who you are and you will get your just deserves! DIRTY  FILTHY  MOTHER  FUCKING  COCKROACH! I'm i getting under your skin with the truth again? Go get your bum boy theymos ban me again and ruin the accounts of loads of people on here AGAIN! Or did someone Pay the extortion fee just to get access when it wasn't their fault? Its funny because you guys are meant to be 'tech' specialists and you don't know shit! You can't ban someone who knows tech, But your all to do with scamming aint you!

Wake up people, Stop falling for their twisted marketing. Any news is good news right! People will still fall for these pricks! People are all(90-95%) clinically insane in the west and are programmed to be consumers. Thats just the facts so this is what people do, Consume without thinking!

Sad, But true


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: LittleD on April 24, 2014, 08:12:04 PM
Let me clear up a few points here real quick:

  • BFL stole nothing. Unless someone can provide some proof to the contrary, they are lying.
  • BFL has scammed no one. Unless someone can provide proof to the contrary, they are lying. (Go on, ask for proof from the trolls claiming scams, you'll never get it.)
  • BFL gave refund for over six months past the estimated shipping date. BFL only stopped giving refunds after shipping started. Anyone who tells you differently is lying.
  • There was no promised shipping date for the Monarch line and in fact there were big bold text stating that it is a preorder and subject to delay. Anyone who tells you the Monarch is late and that BFL made promises on delivery time is lying.
  • BFL has shipped over 50,000 products in the 65nm line. The failure rate is less than 1% (0.72%) not including power supplies.  If you include power supplies, that goes to 1.65%.  Far lower than industry average and a simply awesome (lack of) failure rate. Contrast to the other mining companies equipment, which has double digit failure rates and it's even better.  Anyone who tells you differently is lying.
  • OP's experience is the norm. People rarely come to a forum to post when they have a positive experience, they usually come and post to complain. After 50,000 units shipped and you look at the complaints, that should tell you something.  Most people are not complaining, just a handful of disgruntled people and a whole lot of trolls who aren't even customers.
  • The only people who get rude responses from me are people who initiate a conversation with rudeness or lies. Go on, ask one of the trolls to provide proof to the contrary, you won't find it.  The secret is being respectful and polite and you get the same in return.  Be an asshole and you get the same in return... funny how that works.


Ha! this dude comes out of nowhere.... We must of hit a never... sound like Inabobo is a little Butthurt...
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS048elQD6eYHZNq6rhA1ZCrhOiVkcjltNC1mIjJI83KDKLOB_NJg


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Siddhartha on April 24, 2014, 08:23:48 PM
Let me clear up a few points here real quick:

  • BFL stole nothing. Unless someone can provide some proof to the contrary, they are lying.
  • BFL has scammed no one. Unless someone can provide proof to the contrary, they are lying. (Go on, ask for proof from the trolls claiming scams, you'll never get it.)
  • BFL gave refund for over six months past the estimated shipping date. BFL only stopped giving refunds after shipping started. Anyone who tells you differently is lying.
  • There was no promised shipping date for the Monarch line and in fact there were big bold text stating that it is a preorder and subject to delay. Anyone who tells you the Monarch is late and that BFL made promises on delivery time is lying.
  • BFL has shipped over 50,000 products in the 65nm line. The failure rate is less than 1% (0.72%) not including power supplies.  If you include power supplies, that goes to 1.65%.  Far lower than industry average and a simply awesome (lack of) failure rate. Contrast to the other mining companies equipment, which has double digit failure rates and it's even better.  Anyone who tells you differently is lying.
  • OP's experience is the norm. People rarely come to a forum to post when they have a positive experience, they usually come and post to complain. After 50,000 units shipped and you look at the complaints, that should tell you something.  Most people are not complaining, just a handful of disgruntled people and a whole lot of trolls who aren't even customers.
  • The only people who get rude responses from me are people who initiate a conversation with rudeness or lies. Go on, ask one of the trolls to provide proof to the contrary, you won't find it.  The secret is being respectful and polite and you get the same in return.  Be an asshole and you get the same in return... funny how that works.


Ha! this dude comes out of nowhere.... We must of hit a never... sound like Inabobo is a little Butthurt...
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS048elQD6eYHZNq6rhA1ZCrhOiVkcjltNC1mIjJI83KDKLOB_NJg

I think his buttcheeks are twitching a little, Has to be said :)


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: bcp19 on April 25, 2014, 02:43:27 AM
Let me clear up a few points here real quick:

  • BFL stole nothing. Unless someone can provide some proof to the contrary, they are lying.
  • BFL has scammed no one. Unless someone can provide proof to the contrary, they are lying. (Go on, ask for proof from the trolls claiming scams, you'll never get it.)
  • BFL gave refund for over six months past the estimated shipping date. BFL only stopped giving refunds after shipping started. Anyone who tells you differently is lying.
  • There was no promised shipping date for the Monarch line and in fact there were big bold text stating that it is a preorder and subject to delay. Anyone who tells you the Monarch is late and that BFL made promises on delivery time is lying.
  • BFL has shipped over 50,000 products in the 65nm line. The failure rate is less than 1% (0.72%) not including power supplies.  If you include power supplies, that goes to 1.65%.  Far lower than industry average and a simply awesome (lack of) failure rate. Contrast to the other mining companies equipment, which has double digit failure rates and it's even better.  Anyone who tells you differently is lying.
  • OP's experience is the norm. People rarely come to a forum to post when they have a positive experience, they usually come and post to complain. After 50,000 units shipped and you look at the complaints, that should tell you something.  Most people are not complaining, just a handful of disgruntled people and a whole lot of trolls who aren't even customers.
  • The only people who get rude responses from me are people who initiate a conversation with rudeness or lies. Go on, ask one of the trolls to provide proof to the contrary, you won't find it.  The secret is being respectful and polite and you get the same in return.  Be an asshole and you get the same in return... funny how that works.


Inaba you are an absolute ballbag living off innocent peoples conned money being cheeky to your customers sick of reading your offensive comments and the sooner you and BFL crew are all behind bars the better for the BTC community. Scammed = taking money off someone and not giving them what they paid for nearly a year later. Ordered a 5gh BFL machine and so glad i cancelled it days later. Had this gut feeling in my stomach- THAT YOU ARE A SLIMEY HORRIBLE CUNT

Gets a new account and causes some myther between people. Logs in own account and stirs it even more.

Josh 'inaba' cockroach is laughing at you all and you don't see it. He won't see any jail or anything from any of this and he knows it! Yes, he's a silver spooned only child who as no empathy or compassion for others but thats what makes these cockroaches what they are and why they don't care and never will.

I hope i'm wrong but i'm certain on this, The global corruption is epidemic and once you see what its really doing these articles make me laugh even more.

BTW josh, Fuck you you crack whore freak show, Even if you avoid jail people will know who you are and you will get your just deserves! DIRTY  FILTHY  MOTHER  FUCKING  COCKROACH! I'm i getting under your skin with the truth again? Go get your bum boy theymos ban me again and ruin the accounts of loads of people on here AGAIN! Or did someone Pay the extortion fee just to get access when it wasn't their fault? Its funny because you guys are meant to be 'tech' specialists and you don't know shit! You can't ban someone who knows tech, But your all to do with scamming aint you!

Wake up people, Stop falling for their twisted marketing. Any news is good news right! People will still fall for these pricks! People are all(90-95%) clinically insane in the west and are programmed to be consumers. Thats just the facts so this is what people do, Consume without thinking!

Sad, But true
Dang M3SSY, did you get yet another account banned?  You going for a trifecta now?


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Threader on April 25, 2014, 03:07:00 AM
I just wanted to share my recent experience with Butterfly Labs as I see they have copped a lot of negative feedback. I bought a BFL Single second hand in a non working condition and upon contacting BFL they were happy to repair the device under warranty. They even allowed me to pull it apart and send only the base board to save on shipping. It got sent back within 2 days of arriving at their office and they have been nothing but helpful.
Dude they had no record or history of you ever purchasing from them so you were flagged as priority 1 prospective mark for a new purchase of a wonderful new and high margin monarch. Of course they bent over backwards servicing you on old hardware. Go ahead and send them some pre-order money for a monarch. Let us all know when you get it or a full refund.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Siddhartha on April 25, 2014, 05:48:03 AM
Let me clear up a few points here real quick:

  • BFL stole nothing. Unless someone can provide some proof to the contrary, they are lying.
  • BFL has scammed no one. Unless someone can provide proof to the contrary, they are lying. (Go on, ask for proof from the trolls claiming scams, you'll never get it.)
  • BFL gave refund for over six months past the estimated shipping date. BFL only stopped giving refunds after shipping started. Anyone who tells you differently is lying.
  • There was no promised shipping date for the Monarch line and in fact there were big bold text stating that it is a preorder and subject to delay. Anyone who tells you the Monarch is late and that BFL made promises on delivery time is lying.
  • BFL has shipped over 50,000 products in the 65nm line. The failure rate is less than 1% (0.72%) not including power supplies.  If you include power supplies, that goes to 1.65%.  Far lower than industry average and a simply awesome (lack of) failure rate. Contrast to the other mining companies equipment, which has double digit failure rates and it's even better.  Anyone who tells you differently is lying.
  • OP's experience is the norm. People rarely come to a forum to post when they have a positive experience, they usually come and post to complain. After 50,000 units shipped and you look at the complaints, that should tell you something.  Most people are not complaining, just a handful of disgruntled people and a whole lot of trolls who aren't even customers.
  • The only people who get rude responses from me are people who initiate a conversation with rudeness or lies. Go on, ask one of the trolls to provide proof to the contrary, you won't find it.  The secret is being respectful and polite and you get the same in return.  Be an asshole and you get the same in return... funny how that works.


Inaba you are an absolute ballbag living off innocent peoples conned money being cheeky to your customers sick of reading your offensive comments and the sooner you and BFL crew are all behind bars the better for the BTC community. Scammed = taking money off someone and not giving them what they paid for nearly a year later. Ordered a 5gh BFL machine and so glad i cancelled it days later. Had this gut feeling in my stomach- THAT YOU ARE A SLIMEY HORRIBLE CUNT

Gets a new account and causes some myther between people. Logs in own account and stirs it even more.

Josh 'inaba' cockroach is laughing at you all and you don't see it. He won't see any jail or anything from any of this and he knows it! Yes, he's a silver spooned only child who as no empathy or compassion for others but thats what makes these cockroaches what they are and why they don't care and never will.

I hope i'm wrong but i'm certain on this, The global corruption is epidemic and once you see what its really doing these articles make me laugh even more.

BTW josh, Fuck you you crack whore freak show, Even if you avoid jail people will know who you are and you will get your just deserves! DIRTY  FILTHY  MOTHER  FUCKING  COCKROACH! I'm i getting under your skin with the truth again? Go get your bum boy theymos ban me again and ruin the accounts of loads of people on here AGAIN! Or did someone Pay the extortion fee just to get access when it wasn't their fault? Its funny because you guys are meant to be 'tech' specialists and you don't know shit! You can't ban someone who knows tech, But your all to do with scamming aint you!

Wake up people, Stop falling for their twisted marketing. Any news is good news right! People will still fall for these pricks! People are all(90-95%) clinically insane in the west and are programmed to be consumers. Thats just the facts so this is what people do, Consume without thinking!

Sad, But true
Dang M3SSY, did you get yet another account banned?  You going for a trifecta now?

Avoiding other people questions again? When's your monarch coming? 2 weeks?

Tri? Jesus your behind a little, try 8-10 times and you know when the accounts get banned? When josh starts crying, funny that. Then again, theymos is shitting a brick now cause he deletes my comments that state that he doesn't give a shit but his 20-30 btc every month from this site. That he charges people to use vpns and other stuff when it not their fault.

Pure con artists same as they did with glbse but no one listens to truth, they prefer play games with trolls like yourself who just spout out shit and distract people from the truth. I understand your game even if you don't! I got enough life experience from India to america to know its all the same game that's ran from corruption.

Gtfo of here you dirty cockroach, people are waking up to what in say, just like shit younspread, the truth starts sticking as well if you chuck enough of it.

Come on theymos, I've spoke to much truth about you thermal flask, ban me again and ruin loads of other peoples accounts again! Charge them and get more monies off unsuspecting people.

This forum needs burning and forgetting, its ran by crooks for crooks!


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: bcp19 on April 25, 2014, 09:44:12 AM
Let me clear up a few points here real quick:

  • BFL stole nothing. Unless someone can provide some proof to the contrary, they are lying.
  • BFL has scammed no one. Unless someone can provide proof to the contrary, they are lying. (Go on, ask for proof from the trolls claiming scams, you'll never get it.)
  • BFL gave refund for over six months past the estimated shipping date. BFL only stopped giving refunds after shipping started. Anyone who tells you differently is lying.
  • There was no promised shipping date for the Monarch line and in fact there were big bold text stating that it is a preorder and subject to delay. Anyone who tells you the Monarch is late and that BFL made promises on delivery time is lying.
  • BFL has shipped over 50,000 products in the 65nm line. The failure rate is less than 1% (0.72%) not including power supplies.  If you include power supplies, that goes to 1.65%.  Far lower than industry average and a simply awesome (lack of) failure rate. Contrast to the other mining companies equipment, which has double digit failure rates and it's even better.  Anyone who tells you differently is lying.
  • OP's experience is the norm. People rarely come to a forum to post when they have a positive experience, they usually come and post to complain. After 50,000 units shipped and you look at the complaints, that should tell you something.  Most people are not complaining, just a handful of disgruntled people and a whole lot of trolls who aren't even customers.
  • The only people who get rude responses from me are people who initiate a conversation with rudeness or lies. Go on, ask one of the trolls to provide proof to the contrary, you won't find it.  The secret is being respectful and polite and you get the same in return.  Be an asshole and you get the same in return... funny how that works.


Inaba you are an absolute ballbag living off innocent peoples conned money being cheeky to your customers sick of reading your offensive comments and the sooner you and BFL crew are all behind bars the better for the BTC community. Scammed = taking money off someone and not giving them what they paid for nearly a year later. Ordered a 5gh BFL machine and so glad i cancelled it days later. Had this gut feeling in my stomach- THAT YOU ARE A SLIMEY HORRIBLE CUNT

Gets a new account and causes some myther between people. Logs in own account and stirs it even more.

Josh 'inaba' cockroach is laughing at you all and you don't see it. He won't see any jail or anything from any of this and he knows it! Yes, he's a silver spooned only child who as no empathy or compassion for others but thats what makes these cockroaches what they are and why they don't care and never will.

I hope i'm wrong but i'm certain on this, The global corruption is epidemic and once you see what its really doing these articles make me laugh even more.

BTW josh, Fuck you you crack whore freak show, Even if you avoid jail people will know who you are and you will get your just deserves! DIRTY  FILTHY  MOTHER  FUCKING  COCKROACH! I'm i getting under your skin with the truth again? Go get your bum boy theymos ban me again and ruin the accounts of loads of people on here AGAIN! Or did someone Pay the extortion fee just to get access when it wasn't their fault? Its funny because you guys are meant to be 'tech' specialists and you don't know shit! You can't ban someone who knows tech, But your all to do with scamming aint you!

Wake up people, Stop falling for their twisted marketing. Any news is good news right! People will still fall for these pricks! People are all(90-95%) clinically insane in the west and are programmed to be consumers. Thats just the facts so this is what people do, Consume without thinking!

Sad, But true
Dang M3SSY, did you get yet another account banned?  You going for a trifecta now?

Avoiding other people questions again? When's your monarch coming? 2 weeks?

Tri? Jesus your behind a little, try 8-10 times and you know when the accounts get banned? When josh starts crying, funny that. Then again, theymos is shitting a brick now cause he deletes my comments that state that he doesn't give a shit but his 20-30 btc every month from this site. That he charges people to use vpns and other stuff when it not their fault.

Pure con artists same as they did with glbse but no one listens to truth, they prefer play games with trolls like yourself who just spout out shit and distract people from the truth. I understand your game even if you don't! I got enough life experience from India to america to know its all the same game that's ran from corruption.

Gtfo of here you dirty cockroach, people are waking up to what in say, just like shit younspread, the truth starts sticking as well if you chuck enough of it.

Come on theymos, I've spoke to much truth about you thermal flask, ban me again and ruin loads of other peoples accounts again! Charge them and get more monies off unsuspecting people.

This forum needs burning and forgetting, its ran by crooks for crooks!
Actually, you keep getting banned because your an idiot, not because Josh is doing anything.  Stop and think about it, you've openly admitted you've been banned and that you've created a new account to keep posting.  That's a red flag and the moderators will just keep banning you as you're more over the top than the normal troll on here. 


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: k9quaint on April 26, 2014, 01:50:42 AM
Let me clear up a few points here real quick:

  • BFL stole nothing. Unless someone can provide some proof to the contrary, they are lying.
  • BFL has scammed no one. Unless someone can provide proof to the contrary, they are lying. (Go on, ask for proof from the trolls claiming scams, you'll never get it.)
  • BFL gave refund for over six months past the estimated shipping date. BFL only stopped giving refunds after shipping started. Anyone who tells you differently is lying.
  • There was no promised shipping date for the Monarch line and in fact there were big bold text stating that it is a preorder and subject to delay. Anyone who tells you the Monarch is late and that BFL made promises on delivery time is lying.
  • BFL has shipped over 50,000 products in the 65nm line. The failure rate is less than 1% (0.72%) not including power supplies.  If you include power supplies, that goes to 1.65%.  Far lower than industry average and a simply awesome (lack of) failure rate. Contrast to the other mining companies equipment, which has double digit failure rates and it's even better.  Anyone who tells you differently is lying.
  • OP's experience is the norm. People rarely come to a forum to post when they have a positive experience, they usually come and post to complain. After 50,000 units shipped and you look at the complaints, that should tell you something.  Most people are not complaining, just a handful of disgruntled people and a whole lot of trolls who aren't even customers.
  • The only people who get rude responses from me are people who initiate a conversation with rudeness or lies. Go on, ask one of the trolls to provide proof to the contrary, you won't find it.  The secret is being respectful and polite and you get the same in return.  Be an asshole and you get the same in return... funny how that works.


Inaba
Trust: -1468: -12 / +5(5)
Warning: Trade with extreme caution!

and

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/04/digging-for-answers-the-strong-smell-of-fraud-from-one-bitcoin-miner-maker/

STRONG SMELL OF FRAUD INDEED.  ;D


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Bicknellski on April 26, 2014, 03:20:50 AM
Let me clear up a few points here real quick:

  • BFL stole nothing. Unless someone can provide some proof to the contrary, they are lying.
  • BFL has scammed no one. Unless someone can provide proof to the contrary, they are lying. (Go on, ask for proof from the trolls claiming scams, you'll never get it.)
  • BFL gave refund for over six months past the estimated shipping date. BFL only stopped giving refunds after shipping started. Anyone who tells you differently is lying.
  • There was no promised shipping date for the Monarch line and in fact there were big bold text stating that it is a preorder and subject to delay. Anyone who tells you the Monarch is late and that BFL made promises on delivery time is lying.
  • BFL has shipped over 50,000 products in the 65nm line. The failure rate is less than 1% (0.72%) not including power supplies.  If you include power supplies, that goes to 1.65%.  Far lower than industry average and a simply awesome (lack of) failure rate. Contrast to the other mining companies equipment, which has double digit failure rates and it's even better.  Anyone who tells you differently is lying.
  • OP's experience is the norm. People rarely come to a forum to post when they have a positive experience, they usually come and post to complain. After 50,000 units shipped and you look at the complaints, that should tell you something.  Most people are not complaining, just a handful of disgruntled people and a whole lot of trolls who aren't even customers.
  • The only people who get rude responses from me are people who initiate a conversation with rudeness or lies. Go on, ask one of the trolls to provide proof to the contrary, you won't find it.  The secret is being respectful and polite and you get the same in return.  Be an asshole and you get the same in return... funny how that works.


Inaba
Trust: -1468: -12 / +5(5)
Warning: Trade with extreme caution!

and

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/04/digging-for-answers-the-strong-smell-of-fraud-from-one-bitcoin-miner-maker/

STRONG SMELL OF FRAUD INDEED.  ;D


Inaba -3338: -23 / +8(8 )

Who do you need in your trust circle K? I got him a lot further down on trust ratings than you.

The probation officer in Sonny V.'s case needs to get a bitcoin consultant to help her find all the BTC that was " test - mined" at Eclipse. Bet you dollars to donuts that there is blockchain smoking gun for that.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: k9quaint on April 26, 2014, 11:22:15 AM
Name:   norgan
Posts:   10
Activity:   10
Position:   Newbie
Date Registered:   April 01, 2014, 11:48:00 PM
Last Active:   April 24, 2014, 01:06:25 PM

Newbie account makes thread singing praises of BFL. Inaba magically appears to defend the thread. BFL white knight drools all over thread.
Is it 2012? 2013? or 2014?


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: norgan on April 26, 2014, 12:12:40 PM
Name:   norgan
Posts:   10
Activity:   10
Position:   Newbie
Date Registered:   April 01, 2014, 11:48:00 PM
Last Active:   April 24, 2014, 01:06:25 PM

Newbie account makes thread singing praises of BFL. Inaba magically appears to defend the thread. BFL white knight drools all over thread.
Is it 2012? 2013? or 2014?

ok ok I get it, there is a lot of hurt from BFL. I am not working for nor have I anything to do with them. I honestly have just felt like they gave me great service.

I never thought I simple bit of feedback would turn into such a big discussion. I have learnt a lot for this that's for sure.

For the record, I am not standing up for BFL and I couldn't care less what happens to them. I just wanted to share something positive for once.

Yes I am new, I have been mining for around 2 months and only have this BFL and a couple of U2's and a yellow jacket.

You can look me up, norgan is all over the web and I've been in the IT industry for almost 20 years.

For interest here is my comms with BFL, judge for yourself (sanitised a little so I don't get added to spam lists:
Code:
From: ButterflyLabsINC .
Sent: ‎Tuesday‎, ‎22‎ ‎April‎ ‎2014 ‎3‎:‎42‎ ‎AM
To: xxxx


Hello Nathan-


Your Tracking number is: CJ241898478US  VIA: USPS Tracking



​Regards,
Nathan X.
Butterfly Labs Inc.
Customer Service​



On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 6:25 PM, Nathan xxxx<xxxxxx> wrote:


Hi Nathan, the unit has arrived. I cannot see my RMA in my account. Are you able to add it in so I can track it please?



Sent from Windows Mail


From: ButterflyLabsINC .
Sent: ‎Tuesday‎, ‎8‎ ‎April‎ ‎2014 ‎1‎:‎43‎ ‎AM
To: Nathan xxxx



Greetings Nathan-


Unfortunately at this time we can not upgrade the unit to a 60Gh/s Miner or supply the parts to upgrade yourself. Making any modifications to the PCB board will void the warranty and are not recommended to attempt unless you are adequately trained in PCB board / chip set soldering. We will keep an eye out for your package.



​Regards,
Nathan X.
Butterfly Labs Inc.
Customer Service​



On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 5:49 AM, Nathan xxxxxx <xxxxx> wrote:


Hey Nathan,


Board is on it’s way. How much would it cost to have the second side populated to make it a 60Gh/s unit? even if you just supply the components that I can solder on would be an option.



Sent from Windows Mail


From: ButterflyLabsINC .
Sent: ‎Thursday‎, ‎3‎ ‎April‎ ‎2014 ‎4‎:‎42‎ ‎AM
To: Nathan xxxxxx




Greetings Nathan-


You can just send in the board for repair if it would make shipping costs easier. We will repair the board and have it shipped back via USPS Standard Shipping normally within 3-5 business days of the unit's arrival.



​Regards,
Nathan X.
Butterfly Labs Inc.
Customer Service​



On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Nathan xxxx <xxxxxx> wrote:


Thankyou. What exactly will happen? I just want to understand as it will be costly to send in. Will you repair? What cost will there be to me? Do i have to send the entire unit or can i just send the board by itself?
Sent from my Windows Phone

From: ButterflyLabsINC .
Sent: ‎3/‎04/‎2014 2:35 AM
To: Nathan xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: TECH Form: Damaged bitforce sc orion



Greetings Nathan-



Your RMA number is: xxxxxx-RMA  You will need to write this on both sides of the parcel box with your defective unit along with a note indicating it is a Third Party RMA. You will want to ship it to:


Butterfly Labs
c/o RMA Dept.
10770 El Monte
 Suite 101
 Overland Park, KS 66211


I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience. If you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us.



​Regards,
Nathan X.
Butterfly Labs Inc.
Customer Service​



On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 11:24 PM, Nathan xxxxx <xxxxxxx> wrote:


RMA #00000



Sent from Windows Mail


From: ButterflyLabsINC .
Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎2‎ ‎April‎ ‎2014 ‎3‎:‎33‎ ‎AM
To: Nathanxxxx




Greetings Nathan-


Very sorry to hear about the issues you're experiencing with the miner you received. Since you are not the original owner, we will have to initiate a Third Party RMA. I will need the serial number located on the back of the miner along with your name and current shipping address before we can proceed further.



​Regards,
Nathan X.
Butterfly Labs Inc.
Customer Service​



On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 7:09 PM, <xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Name: Nathan
Email: xxxxxxx
Message:
Hi, I have purchased a second hand unit and it looks to have water damage (I was told "taken apart for cleaning, now doesn't work").
I was wondering if you could assist in repair. Either I can send you the base board for repair or if you could assist with circuit diagrams so I can troubleshoot myself.

IT is what it is and you will either write this off as BFL bs or you'll read the emails and believe that I just wanted to share something positive. I have never in my life had a company be ok with dismantling a product bought second hand and still honour warranty. Perhaps they are just trying to impress me to buy more products (not going to work since I am not ok with investing any real cash in mining) but either way, it's a great win for me and I am happy with the result.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Bicknellski on April 26, 2014, 01:19:08 PM
I just wanted to share something positive for once.


Meaning you have not shared positive things before?

Or is it you know that they have been slammed hard for being scammers and are trying to defend them?

Very interesting turn of phrase almost like you have been following this for years not weeks.

It is clear you want to say something positive about BFL you have done it 3 times now but when are you going to comment about your thoughts on the negatives aspects? I'd like to hear you comment on those accusations leveled against BFL. The lawsuits? The fact the majority shareholder of BFL just received another 2 years on his probation for his activities related to BFL that Judge clearly thinks STINKS.

We want to know what you think of the millions in lost revenue and hundreds if not thousands that have been injured and continue to be injured by BFL? You come across unsympathetic to the plight of those who have been seriously damaged by BFL and given their latest product the Monarch the problems continue to grow each day. People might listen if you balance things out and properly weigh in on those negative issues as well. You can't judge a company on one good review nor one bad review can you? What have you got to say about the millions lost?







Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: k9quaint on April 27, 2014, 01:51:38 AM
Name:   norgan
Posts:   10
Activity:   10
Position:   Newbie
Date Registered:   April 01, 2014, 11:48:00 PM
Last Active:   April 24, 2014, 01:06:25 PM

Newbie account makes thread singing praises of BFL. Inaba magically appears to defend the thread. BFL white knight drools all over thread.
Is it 2012? 2013? or 2014?

ok ok I get it, there is a lot of hurt from BFL. I am not working for nor have I anything to do with them. I honestly have just felt like they gave me great service.

I never thought I simple bit of feedback would turn into such a big discussion. I have learnt a lot for this that's for sure.

<snip>

Don't take it personally. BFL has astro-turfed their own forums as well as these. Inaba/Josh was even caught out maintaining multiple accounts for the BFL shoutbox.
People here are naturally skeptical of random input from new accounts that relate a positive spin to BFL.

If you are Josh, then you have a date with a federal judge or two in the near future.
If you are not Josh, then thanks for the input. Even a broken watch (analog) is right twice a day so it stands to reason that BFL would have gotten something right eventually ;)


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: opieum2 on April 27, 2014, 03:54:33 PM
I have an order with BFL as well. While I have not been happy with the eternal delays, I do get quick and consistent replies via email (only positive I can say). That being said offering me a coupon to buy another piece of hardware after being massively late with their first order is almost a slap in the face. Pretty much saying hey we fucked up...buy the same product from us at half the current listed price. Yea kinda misses the point. That is not compensation. Thats a sales pitch. GOOD customer service makes up for the loss in a huge way. And they screwed up in a HUGE way.

I ordered a 300GHs pre-black Friday. So I paid that full price. for 300Ghs....putting in a refund as they took far too long. And since the are doing dumb shit like having to sell the queue place to get the refunds (illegal according to FTC regs anyway). All I know is I will push for getting it back ASAP. I have other manufactures who deliver on time (when they say they will) that I am glad to give my business to.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: norgan on April 27, 2014, 11:53:42 PM
I just wanted to share something positive for once.


Meaning you have not shared positive things before?

Or is it you know that they have been slammed hard for being scammers and are trying to defend them?

Very interesting turn of phrase almost like you have been following this for years not weeks.

It is clear you want to say something positive about BFL you have done it 3 times now but when are you going to comment about your thoughts on the negatives aspects? I'd like to hear you comment on those accusations leveled against BFL. The lawsuits? The fact the majority shareholder of BFL just received another 2 years on his probation for his activities related to BFL that Judge clearly thinks STINKS.

We want to know what you think of the millions in lost revenue and hundreds if not thousands that have been injured and continue to be injured by BFL? You come across unsympathetic to the plight of those who have been seriously damaged by BFL and given their latest product the Monarch the problems continue to grow each day. People might listen if you balance things out and properly weigh in on those negative issues as well. You can't judge a company on one good review nor one bad review can you? What have you got to say about the millions lost?

for once, meaning I have seen all the negativity posted about BFL and really in general I find myself let down by bad customer service from many vendors. So it is nice to be able to share a good customer service experience.

I am one to look into any area of interest I find myself exploring and have been seeing the negative BFL stuff posted here and in news articles.

As for commenting on the negative aspects this is how I see it from what I've read so far:

BFL have been having issues with delayed shipping of pre-orders and not meeting supposed deadlines. I have never ordered new hardware from BFL so cannot comment on my own experiences with this.

I have a habit of not really concerning myself with other peoples problems so from my own personal point of view I have only had positive experiences with BFL.  I don't know why you are hell bent on getting someone's opinion on something they have not personal had any experience on.

If you really want my opinion on it then here you go:

It sounds like BFL may have mislead some customers into buying equipment that wasn't delivered according to what they were promised. I can imagine trying to get things manufactured and tested when there are no real industry experts or documentation on may be difficult and I can understand some delay in these new products.
It sounds like BFL have tried to refund or compensate people for late deliveries which some people find inadequate.

Do I know or think BFL have done anything intentionally wrong? Maybe, I don't know enough facts to be honest and I'm not one to go around slamming people or companies unless I personally have some proof on it.

I think opiem2 has a very good point, great customer service can make a HUGE difference to customer satisfaction. I guess time will tell what will happen and what the facts are here.
Bottom line is, if you don't like them then don't buy from them. If you did and no longer want to deal with them then ask for a refund, I'm sure they will oblige and if not I know our trade laws in Australia cover us to ensure a refund on any product that is not delivered or not performing as advertised.

I didn't post here to speculate on the bad experiences of customers, I posted here to share something that I found to be very positive.
I hope this is an indication of the real intent of BFL and maybe they will start delivering stuff or learning to be more conservative with delivery dates to set the right customer expectations.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Huangww on April 28, 2014, 12:37:22 AM
BFL is notorious.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: kendog77 on April 28, 2014, 12:37:35 AM
Why would anyone be wasting time with a bfl single or any bfl 65 nm product right now? Aren't they losing money after electricity costs are factored in?


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Bicknellski on April 28, 2014, 12:54:03 AM

I have a habit of not really concerning myself with other peoples problems so from my own personal point of view I have only had positive experiences with BFL.

Well no one needs to be in the habit of concerning themselves with your reviews of BFL then do they. That pretty much sums up what you are doing. You are trying to whiteknight a company that has clearly, and with ample evidence you have read and are well aware of and still ignored the plight of hundreds of angry BFL customers, screwed people out of millions. Your reasoning is since you got 1 RMA on time they are worthy of praise to counter all the negativity? That is what a paid shill does. The reputation of this company is clearly reported on given the years of bad service your attempt to rehab a company that still is ripping people off with their gh/s offers and the Monarch is beyond me.

The fact you think it is somehow necessary to "balance" out the bad with very weak and anecdotal experiences that are easily staged and have been staged in the past then post cut and paste emails with no headers etc? Please. If you want to do the community a service get to know the people you are not concerned with and their problems. BFL's continued scamming affects us all primarily it wastes all our time. If you want good service BFL is not the model check out Dogie's careful review of manufactures here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=456691

Again you seem to think it is alright to live in a vacuum ignoring the reality of the situation. Why does anyone complain about unethical practices? Why do people take the time to read the court cases against BFL and their majority shareholder? Why would anyone be motivated to warn people off buying from BFL?

I would respectfully submit there are 2 reasons. 1 they have conscious. 2 they were wronged by BFL. For me it is both. I don't buy your story, the reasons you have to whiteknight BFL do not add up. There is more to why you are doing what you are doing. Ethically you must see how reprehensible it is to ignore others suffering and to promote these crooks. 100's of FTC complaints are documented. I don't buy it for a second you are new to the whole BFL story and that you somehow happened on to the rig of your dreams. Photos of the water damaged unit and the RMA unit stuck somewhere in transmission? Weren't you going to provide some evidence? Unfortunately at this point you make some pretty uncharacteristic claims about BFL but we don't have any verifiable evidence. You need to provide verifiable proof of your claims.

And in an effort to make sure any new people are considering BFL please read the article on the Stench at BFL here: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/04/digging-for-answers-the-strong-smell-of-fraud-from-one-bitcoin-miner-maker/


Quote
Revenue and a growing rap sheet

But on September 3, 2013, Vleisides’ probation officer, Courtney Pierce, filed a violation report with the Missouri federal judge handling his case (just over two months after Ars published our first articles about Butterfly Labs and its mining machines). In her memo to the judge, Pierce wrote that Vleisides was now an employee of and the dominant shareholder in BFL, a company which "advertises all of its technology for purchase through pre-order... Vleisides did not seek the express approval of the probation officer prior to engaging in a business that involves the solicitation of funds through pre-orders."

She continued:

The Probation Office has been notified by the US Postal Inspection Service that hundreds of complaints have been filed against BFL from individuals who have placed pre-orders for hardware from BFL.

The seriousness of Vleisides' instant offense [the lottery scam], coupled with his current involvement in a somewhat similar business enterprise are cause for concern.

I am glad that there are people working to bring the rat bastards to justice. Apathy and turning a blind eye to obvious violations is something you might hold as a tenet in your moral make-up but many of us here are not going to ignore what these people have done. You are perpetuating suffering off this community in attempting to rehab BFL. They lost the moral high ground the day they took their first BTC and didn't truthfully have a product for sale and the fact that continues today with the Monarch and their cloud operations is just the tip of cesspool that BFL has created. BFL could have grown into a billion dollar enterprise if that had actually had the intent to sell miners. It is clear to most people who follow mining that is not their motivation.


Quote
On the heels of Vleisides' probation, BFL now moves immediately to the new lawsuit. Kyle Alexander, and Dylan Symington et al. v. BF Labs (PDF) describes two attempted purchases made by the named plaintiffs. Alexander claims that he paid $308 to BFL in June 2013 for a low-end mining machine. However, despite repeated inquiries to BFL, Alexander was simply told “shipping had begun”—yet his box didn't arrive.

In March 2014, Alexander again asked about his order and was simply informed that it was changed to a “Mining by the GH” (gigahash) product, an as-yet-unreleased product from BFL.

“Plaintiff Kyle Alexander never changed or modified his order and never gave Defendant permission to use the equipment he ordered to mine bitcoins for itself or for anyone else,” says his complaint. “To date, Plaintiff Kyle Alexander has not received any mining equipment from Defendant. Since Plaintiff Kyle Alexander pre-paid for his order of mining equipment from Defendant in June of 2013, numerous bitcoins have been mined by others, and the difficulty of mining new bitcoins has substantially increased over such time.”

The other named plaintiff, Dylan Symington, paid $1,333.00 to BFL in April 2013 but did not receive his order for seven months.

Both men allege that BFL engaged in deception under the Kansas Consumer Protection Act, received unjust enrichment, and made negligent misrepresentation. BFL has yet to formally respond to the new charges.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: bcp19 on April 28, 2014, 02:16:06 AM
Why would anyone be wasting time with a bfl single or any bfl 65 nm product right now? Aren't they losing money after electricity costs are factored in?
Maybe they are mining for the future.  The price of bitcoin is unlikely to stay at this price forever or you're going to see a lack of new products as the difficulty of getting more would just keep getting more and more into the red.  Look at the sale of GPUs with just the preorder of scrypt ASICs.  People want to get what money they can, and by doing so, the resale GPU price has more than halved from excess supply and lack of demand.  Without an increase in the price of BTC, we'll soon hit that same mark in regards to new ASICs.  In addition, with the new IRS ruling, if I mine BTC and spend more on electricity than I mine, I can take a loss on my taxes.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: norgan on April 28, 2014, 07:18:04 AM
I am running them at work so not paying for power myself and the amount they draw is so small on the power footprint we have.

As for the photo's I received a brand new board today for the RMA.

Old damaged unit:
http://s27.postimg.org/mbfxnr8u7/WP_20140401_13_01_36_Pro.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/mbfxnr8u7/)

http://s27.postimg.org/kid0zfnnj/WP_20140401_13_01_50_Pro.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/kid0zfnnj/)

http://s27.postimg.org/ktuhc743j/WP_20140401_13_02_06_Pro.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/ktuhc743j/)

New one arrived today will upload in a moment.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: norgan on April 28, 2014, 08:35:46 AM
New board sent:
http://i59.tinypic.com/2du9oya.jpg


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Bicknellski on April 28, 2014, 09:15:43 AM
People might want to contact the Judge and the Probation Officer for Sonny V? They would be very interested in accounts of BFL not paying a full refund as required by FTC regulation.

U.S. Probation Officer Courtney N. Pierce
Probation and Pretrial Services Office
Charles Evan Whittaker Courthouse
400 East 9th Street
Kansas City, MO
64106

David Gregory Kays, Chief District Judge

 Contact Information (http://www.mow.uscourts.gov/judges/kays.html)


Quote
The judge's most damning comments, however, centered on his overall BFL observations (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/04/digging-for-answers-the-strong-smell-of-fraud-from-one-bitcoin-miner-maker/2/):

Now, there is a stench coming from Butterfly Labs. It's a strong smell. It's not enough to send you to prison today, because, to be quite honest with you, if it was, we'd be talking about 24 months in prison. It's not—I think it's too close. I think [defense witness] Mr. Bourne did a very good job of testifying, and it assisted your defense greatly. But if I find out that there is this fraud word involved in this part, you know, Mr. Vleisides, as we say here at the courthouse, you need to get your toothbrush and get your things in order, because fraud will not be tolerated, you understand that? So I would work very hard to make these consumers happy consumers who you've dealt with.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: jimmothy on April 28, 2014, 09:40:58 PM
Quote
So I would work very hard to make these consumers happy consumers who you've dealt with.

I lol'd


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Bicknellski on April 30, 2014, 05:00:45 AM
Quote
So I would work very hard to make these consumers happy consumers who you've dealt with.

I lol'd

It'd be funny if it weren't for the fact the Judge didn't really get to see the long list of people complaining. If he had I doubt Sonny V. be going to BFL HQ everyday. The likelihood of him actually getting jail time increases each day and with each new Monarch "pre-order". All they need next time they drag him in front of a judge is an expert that explains what was happening (is happening) at Eclipse during burn in "testing" miners which is something they denied doing at the time. Game over.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: norgan on April 30, 2014, 05:30:14 AM
Quote
So I would work very hard to make these consumers happy consumers who you've dealt with.

I lol'd

It'd be funny if it weren't for the fact the Judge didn't really get see the long list of people complaining. If he had I doubt Sonny V. be going to BFL HQ everyday. The likelihood of him actually getting jail time increases each day and with each new Monarch "pre-order". All they need next time they drag him in front of a judge is an expert that explains what was happening (is happening) at Eclipse during burn in "testing" miners which is something they denied doing at the time. Game over.

how could they prove that? they would need to get a warrant for connection logs or something right? I noticed the monarch product page is very clear about being preorders and that they cannot promise any dates and that if you don't like that then don't order. How is that illegal or even immoral? (putting aside the hashing on eclipse).

What do you think of the photos? does that prove to you that I got a brand new unit (even if this is the exception rather than the rule).



Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: jimmothy on April 30, 2014, 06:12:29 AM
how could they prove that? they would need to get a warrant for connection logs or something right? I noticed the monarch product page is very clear about being preorders and that they cannot promise any dates and that if you don't like that then don't order. How is that illegal or even immoral? (putting aside the hashing on eclipse).

What do you think of the photos? does that prove to you that I got a brand new unit (even if this is the exception rather than the rule).

Sounds like words straight from the mouth of the bullshitter josh himself.

Here are a few but not nearly all of the laws BFL has broken:
- denial of refunds
- false advertising
- using customer hardware to make money
- slander of critics
- paying shills

Please do explain how this makes it very clear that monarchs will be shipping in july or later:

https://i.imgur.com/48BeJaG.png


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: norgan on April 30, 2014, 06:37:16 AM
ahh ok I was looking at the 1th/s one:
Quote
Shipping Schedule
This is a Pre-Order product which is not yet shipping.  If you're uncomfortable waiting until the development is complete and the product is shipped, do NOT pre-order this product. Perhaps undesirable, but this is a pre-order market.  Customers flatly demand to get in line for the new technology before it's finished development.  This has created a lot of drama for the manufacturers but it's something we simply have to deal with.  All manufacturers in this space have experienced some degree of delay with their first generation ASIC.  Every last one of them, so we're reluctant to give a specific delivery date.  However, this is our second generation, so we have much greater clarity on the process and plan to begin shipments in May 2014.  Orders are shipped in order date priority so any order placed now should be expected to be delivered in June.

Like is said though how could we possibly prove that BFL is mining on EMC?

I really don't have enough facts myself to properly comment on the claims except to ask the above about the claim of using customer hardware.
False advertising is difficult when there are no actual promises on exact dates. If they don't deliver at all then sure you should get your money back and if they take 6 months to deliver then one could assume that it is not delivered so sure, a full refund should be given. Have BFL not been refunding people who have preorders?

I don't know what the local laws are there or how they translate to international sales but I know our local laws cover all of that and any Consumer Tribunal member would easily rule for an order to pay and your money is back.

I feel like I have stepped into a much bigger argument than I currently know of so excuse me if I seem to be over simplifying or have anything wrong.

I am genuinely interested though and I am struggling to prove to you that I'm just trying to get an idea of how this industry works. I put my (no reputation) on the line to share something positive and all I am copping is accusations.

 


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Bicknellski on April 30, 2014, 12:20:58 PM
Discovery BFL gives to Woodlaw will probably have more than enough evidence to determine it either way. Given the latest slow mo' delivery with the Monarch you can only imagine why it is taking 15 months to get a 28nm chip married to a board. Compared to KnC or Spondoolies? The least one can say is BFL blows at getting things to market. You can get 6.5Th/s in August for 4500 USD. I suspect the Monarch will be shipping later than that and all you get is 1 Th/s in an unproven board? BFL is already two or three generations behind with their foolish GPU inspired mining card. They won't dig out of this debacle because they have no answers to density and cooling. You don't get there using a GPU card form factor.

Put things in real tight perspective for you every unit they have built has been late and underspecification. No one in their right mind would buy BFL at this point doesn't matter how many refunds they finally give out to save Sonny V from going to jail or RMA's, no one who has done their research is going to buy from BFL. If you agree with that point then you ain't no shill.






Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Syke on April 30, 2014, 12:58:37 PM
Like is said though how could we possibly prove that BFL is mining on EMC?

They've already admitted to it. It's in the court record, straight from BFL's lawyer.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Henchman24 on April 30, 2014, 02:32:40 PM
Like is said though how could we possibly prove that BFL is mining on EMC?

They've already admitted to it. It's in the court record, straight from BFL's lawyer.

Yup.  BFL actually owns EMC.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Namnuta on April 30, 2014, 03:46:52 PM
If you have been on BFL forums you have probably seen my user name in power supply threads helping others get there products working since BFL provides zero forum support. I was also active in the easyminer threads telling folks to use bfgminer and a .bat file, and present in the eclipse MC threads.

I had always offered support until BFL JOSH made his outrageous claim that there power supplies are fine and its user error.


If anyone has BFL hardware, stop using your power supply now and get and ATX. There supplies are a fire hazard and not safe...Period.

Do not use Easyminer software, it is buggy garbage and a simple .bat file and BFGminer will save you so many headaches, give you more info on your hardware etc.  

Avoid Eclipse MC as there are owned and run by BFL, and have the worst payouts out of everyone. I'm a slush guy but i am not going to plug my pool, just want to be up front. Just please avoid EMC as they are not transparent, have the lowest payout and are in fact owned and operated by BFL or a close affiliate.


I post this here because Butterfly Labs Staff have now banned me for speaking the truth and deleted all my posts; and I will help anyone with BFL hardware that has issues.

And to think i used to be a BFL fanboy. LMAO

Last edit. Wasn't there reports that BFL was or is using and unlicenced version of Altium for there layouts? Back when they released the specs for the 60GH singles? Ill do some more digging but i am wondering if anyone has more information on this.

BFL has woken the Lion with very deep pockets. :)


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: lysernix on April 30, 2014, 06:03:27 PM
Why would anyone be wasting time with a bfl single or any bfl 65 nm product right now? Aren't they losing money after electricity costs are factored in?

I could be wrong... if so please correct me.

I do have a 55gh single running. These days of course its pitiful, but its been running forever and used to do a lot better ... and I've just never bothered to unplug it!

Based on TODAY'S difficulty and TODAY's price 8000872135 / ~$450

I calculate it's still producing ~0.09 BTC per 30 days = ~$40.

@ 275W @ 24/7 @ 30 days my power cost is $0.064313 per KWH

Costs $12.73 per month to run.

Now. I did these calculations in just a few minutes and I could be GROSSLY mistaken... so if I am please correct me. All numbers are fairly approximate.

While it only makes yes, a bare pittance, it's still technically profitable? Of course this may (and will) quickly change as difficulty increases and at some point I will unplug it or lose money mining "fun" alt-coins.

For the record: I do not like BFL 1% and continue to marvel at their shipping delays which only become more impressive each day.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Syke on April 30, 2014, 06:31:22 PM
Based on TODAY'S difficulty and TODAY's price 8000872135 / ~$450

I calculate it's still producing ~0.09 BTC per 30 days = ~$40.

@ 275W @ 24/7 @ 30 days my power cost is $0.064313 per KWH

Costs $12.73 per month to run.

Now. I did these calculations in just a few minutes and I could be GROSSLY mistaken... so if I am please correct me. All numbers are fairly approximate.

Sounds about right. You have unusually low power costs, which is why you can stay above water. Most miners have significantly higher costs, especially when you including cooling costs.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: lysernix on April 30, 2014, 06:45:14 PM
Thanks for the reply. I have to recalculate every once in a while to make sure I'm still above water. haha.

here are my power rates: http://www.westarenergy.com/wcm.nsf/resources/Residential%20Rates/$file/Residential%20Rates.pdf?openelement (http://www.westarenergy.com/wcm.nsf/resources/Residential%20Rates/$file/Residential%20Rates.pdf?openelement)

if you don't want to click that google "westar energy kwh rate" -- this is the Kansas City area (yes BFL is right down the street from me, almost haha)

Our rates actually go up a little in the summer to $0.075589 per kWH so it looks like sometime this summer when diff is just absolutely astronomical it will be time to retire it. Till then... I'll continue to rake in the 0.003 per day.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Syke on April 30, 2014, 07:00:55 PM
Thanks for the reply. I have to recalculate every once in a while to make sure I'm still above water. haha.

here are my power rates: http://www.westarenergy.com/wcm.nsf/resources/Residential%20Rates/$file/Residential%20Rates.pdf?openelement (http://www.westarenergy.com/wcm.nsf/resources/Residential%20Rates/$file/Residential%20Rates.pdf?openelement)

Well, yeah, but your actual rate isn't $0.064313. That's the base charge. They also add in several more charges.

Base: $0.064313
Fuel Charge: $0.021836
Transmission Charge: $0.011165
Environmental Cost: $0.003136
Energy Efficient Rider: $0.000538
Property Tax Surcharge: $0.001106
Subtotal: $0.102094
Francise Fee (3%): $0.00306282
Local Sales Tax (1%): $0.00102094

Actual rate: $0.10617776

Which is actually 65% higher than you first estimated.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: lysernix on April 30, 2014, 07:23:58 PM
Aha. That's the sort of catch I was hoping someone would find for me.

Yes I glanced at those rates way too quickly. Lol...

Well, even at that rate... ($21 now per 30 days instead of $12 / 30) it's still technically profitable... though not for much longer.

Of course I also assume 275W based on BFL power supply... which I'm using a PC Power & Cooling which I believe does marginally better.... but I digress...

In any case. Still technically profitable but closer than I thought.

Thanks for looking at it.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: norgan on April 30, 2014, 11:24:48 PM
Like is said though how could we possibly prove that BFL is mining on EMC?

They've already admitted to it. It's in the court record, straight from BFL's lawyer.

Fair enough. I know they own EMC, that's pretty publicly known. I've not read any of the court stuff.

Seems like a huge mess to me! I feel sorry for everyone involved on both sides.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: YipYip on May 01, 2014, 03:54:17 AM
Why would anyone be wasting time with a bfl single or any bfl 65 nm product right now? Aren't they losing money after electricity costs are factored in?

I could be wrong... if so please correct me.

I do have a 55gh single running. These days of course its pitiful, but its been running forever and used to do a lot better ... and I've just never bothered to unplug it!

Based on TODAY'S difficulty and TODAY's price 8000872135 / ~$450

I calculate it's still producing ~0.09 BTC per 30 days = ~$40.

@ 275W @ 24/7 @ 30 days my power cost is $0.064313 per KWH

Costs $12.73 per month to run.

Now. I did these calculations in just a few minutes and I could be GROSSLY mistaken... so if I am please correct me. All numbers are fairly approximate.

While it only makes yes, a bare pittance, it's still technically profitable? Of course this may (and will) quickly change as difficulty increases and at some point I will unplug it or lose money mining "fun" alt-coins.

For the record: I do not like BFL 1% and continue to marvel at their shipping delays which only become more impressive each day.

6 cents a k/w is the cheapest power I have seen ..Most of the rest of the world and most of teh US as fars as I understand pay btw 15-30 cents a k/w

SO this is why you are in profit ....you must be in washinton state or live next to a nuke plat to get 6 cents a kw


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: YipYip on May 01, 2014, 03:56:24 AM
Like is said though how could we possibly prove that BFL is mining on EMC?

They've already admitted to it. It's in the court record, straight from BFL's lawyer.

Fair enough. I know they own EMC, that's pretty publicly known. I've not read any of the court stuff.

Seems like a huge mess to me! I feel sorry for everyone involved on both sides.

You feel sorry for the CUNTS who have created this living nightmare...who the fuck are you Mahatma Ghandi !!!


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Bicknellski on May 01, 2014, 08:54:26 AM
Like is said though how could we possibly prove that BFL is mining on EMC?

They've already admitted to it. It's in the court record, straight from BFL's lawyer.

Fair enough. I know they own EMC, that's pretty publicly known. I've not read any of the court stuff.

Seems like a huge mess to me! I feel sorry for everyone involved on both sides.

You feel sorry for the CUNTS who have created this living nightmare...who the fuck are you Mahatma Ghandi !!!

This is why you should not feel sorry for BFL.

Transcript Pages 89-92 of the Probation Hearing against Sonny V. (http://www.scribd.com/doc/217190031/2014-01-28-USA-v-Vleisides-Transcript)

Quote
Q. Okay. And so in both circumstances, of the house and the loan, it was customers' money that went to Mr. Vleisides buying his house that he lives in, and to loan him and other share holders money; right? Because of this prepaid model?

A. It was certainly money that customers deposited, you know, with the company to purchase their products. I'm not entirely sure at which point legal entitlement to the money passes from the customer to the -- to the company. But the -- the money that any company uses, if it's not borrowed or put in by investors comes from its customers. In this case it all came from the customers.


Quote
Q. Now, should people who have company credit cards use themfor personal expenses?

A. They should not.

Q. All right. And so does that continue on, do you know,by -- by Mr. Vleisides?

A. I -- I will say that it probably has continued.

Q. All right. Are there other employees, in particular Mr. Vleisides' mother, who has a company credit card that makes personal purchases on?

A. There are other company emp -- there are other company employees who -- you know, the only one I've looked at closely is Mr. Vleisides because of this issue. There are other company employees who have company credit cards. I do notknow whether Mr. Vleisides' mother has a company credit card.

Maybe we should ask Josh how he uses his company Diner's Club card? Maybe they pay for meals for BCP and PG when they are in town I am sure that your pre-order money is well spend lavishing food and trinkets on those who would shill for BFL right? I don't think any BFL customers would be happy to learn personal expenses are the norm for employees with credit cards.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Unacceptable on May 01, 2014, 09:09:03 AM
Like is said though how could we possibly prove that BFL is mining on EMC?

They've already admitted to it. It's in the court record, straight from BFL's lawyer.

Fair enough. I know they own EMC, that's pretty publicly known. I've not read any of the court stuff.

Seems like a huge mess to me! I feel sorry for everyone involved on both sides.

You feel sorry for the CUNTS who have created this living nightmare...who the fuck are you Mahatma Ghandi !!!

This is why you should not feel sorry for BFL.

Transcript Pages 89-92 of the Probation Hearing against Sonny V. (http://www.scribd.com/doc/217190031/2014-01-28-USA-v-Vleisides-Transcript)

Quote
Q. Okay. And so in both circumstances, of the house and the loan, it was customers' money that went to Mr. Vleisides buying his house that he lives in, and to loan him and other share holders money; right? Because of this prepaid model?

A. It was certainly money that customers deposited, you know, with the company to purchase their products. I'm not entirely sure at which point legal entitlement to the money passes from the customer to the -- to the company. But the -- the money that any company uses, if it's not borrowed or put in by investors comes from its customers. In this case it all came from the customers.


Quote
Q. Now, should people who have company credit cards use themfor personal expenses?

A. They should not.

Q. All right. And so does that continue on, do you know,by -- by Mr. Vleisides?

A. I -- I will say that it probably has continued.

Q. All right. Are there other employees, in particular Mr. Vleisides' mother, who has a company credit card that makes personal purchases on?

A. There are other company emp -- there are other company employees who -- you know, the only one I've looked at closely is Mr. Vleisides because of this issue. There are other company employees who have company credit cards. I do notknow whether Mr. Vleisides' mother has a company credit card.

Maybe we should ask Josh how he uses his company Diner's Club card? Maybe they pay for meals for BCP and PG when they are in town I am sure that your pre-order money is well spend lavishing food and trinkets on those who would shill for BFL right? I don't think any BFL customers would be happy to learn personal expenses are the norm for employees with credit cards.


How do expect employees to live the "highlife" without a company credit card ???  You think they all make thousands of dollars a week to afford such expenses ???

Live it up BFL!!! The end is near!!!!  ;D

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h47/sxkoonce/Dispair%20Sign/Relax.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/sxkoonce/media/Dispair%20Sign/Relax.jpg.html)



Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: lowbander80 on May 01, 2014, 08:10:44 PM
My experience started with a Jalapeno and a 60ghs single
Both stable running Jalapeno since feb 2014 up to today and single mar2014 to apr214
The single is noisy its like a hair dryer open all the time and it consumes 275 w
wish it was quite ...it like it being stable
Jalapeno needs to be run cool so a spare usb fan is poing it at it and now its been 10days whith
no reset.
Actually would be friendly with the idea of buying another jalapeno its a pity that BFL has lost her
reputation...now would not buy from them I have read so many bad stories.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: bcp19 on May 02, 2014, 03:18:28 AM
Maybe we should ask Josh how he uses his company Diner's Club card? Maybe they pay for meals for BCP and PG when they are in town I am sure that your pre-order money is well spend lavishing food and trinkets on those who would shill for BFL right? I don't think any BFL customers would be happy to learn personal expenses are the norm for employees with credit cards.

Gee, to listen to you, one would think companies never make a profit.  That transcript you keep harping on talks about $2.5mil in revenue from 2012 for the FPGAs, and I highly doubt that it cost that much to produce them, so there had to be a profit.  Are you trying to say it's wrong to use the profit from a company?  I'm glad I dont work for you, you probably force your employees to pay to come to work.  Kinda like your WASP project, pay to participate...


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Bicknellski on May 02, 2014, 03:27:42 AM
Oh look BCP has funded a Sonny V's shopping spree. That is some smart investor right there.



Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Syke on May 02, 2014, 03:33:41 AM
Gee, to listen to you, one would think companies never make a profit.  That transcript you keep harping on talks about $2.5mil in revenue from 2012 for the FPGAs, and I highly doubt that it cost that much to produce them, so there had to be a profit.  Are you trying to say it's wrong to use the profit from a company?  I'm glad I dont work for you, you probably force your employees to pay to come to work.  Kinda like your WASP project, pay to participate...

Let's see what the actual court had to say.

Quote
Q. Now, should people who have company credit cards use them for personal expenses?
A. They should not.

Q. All right. And so does that continue on, do you know,by -- by Mr. Vleisides?
A. I -- I will say that it probably has continued.

Let me highlight the important comment from the court...

Quote
A. They should not.

Hmm, who's right? bcp19 or the court...


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: norgan on May 02, 2014, 04:19:55 AM
such a firey debate! haha

Look, if a company makes money (profit) then they are entitled to spend that as they see fit. If they run out of cash to refund customers or just flat out refuse then I personally think that's a bit rough. I can't help but point out though that mostly they have said preorders have dates that are estimates and they can vary. What seems to be in dispute here is what is a reasonable delay in shipping. Obviously some customers don't; agree with BFL's judgement of reasonable delays. I can understand this for first run and even second but you would think you could get more accurate dates after that.

I still think there needs to be more balance in this whole thing. If you were a new manufacturer and your suppliers (most likely from china) kept letting you down and not delivering the components you need (which lets face it is pretty common with Chinese manufacturing) then you would hope that your customers, who were told and accepted that this is all pretty new development stuff, would be understanding.
You would also though get some funding behind you so that you could afford to refund some customers as it's inevitable that some will not be happy and you want to ensure a good reputation.

I can't help but think BFL has copped more flack than perhaps it should have...i'm not excusing anything they have done, I just understand some of it I guess and I certainly don't deny those unhappy customers their right to dissatisfaction nor do I think they are wrong.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: jimmothy on May 02, 2014, 04:52:15 AM
such a firey debate! haha

Look, if a company makes money (profit) then they are entitled to spend that as they see fit. If they run out of cash to refund customers or just flat out refuse then I personally think that's a bit rough. I can't help but point out though that mostly they have said preorders have dates that are estimates and they can vary. What seems to be in dispute here is what is a reasonable delay in shipping. Obviously some customers don't; agree with BFL's judgement of reasonable delays. I can understand this for first run and even second but you would think you could get more accurate dates after that.

I still think there needs to be more balance in this whole thing. If you were a new manufacturer and your suppliers (most likely from china) kept letting you down and not delivering the components you need (which lets face it is pretty common with Chinese manufacturing) then you would hope that your customers, who were told and accepted that this is all pretty new development stuff, would be understanding.
You would also though get some funding behind you so that you could afford to refund some customers as it's inevitable that some will not be happy and you want to ensure a good reputation.

I can't help but think BFL has copped more flack than perhaps it should have...i'm not excusing anything they have done, I just understand some of it I guess and I certainly don't deny those unhappy customers their right to dissatisfaction nor do I think they are wrong.

Do you really consider preorder money for nonexistant hardware to be profit? Before shipping a single machine they are allowing employees and their family members free access to customer funds?

And how can you blame china for BFLs failures? Are you really BFL josh? How can component delays delay your product? You should have everything ready months in advanced. You do realize that a majority of the hashrate is powered by chinese machines? The a1 miners and bitmain have never sold preorders nor have they scammed customers like BFL has.

BFL has shown time and time again that they only use preorders as a marketing scheme. They don't sell in stock hardware because they are not confident in their abilities to deliver on time or to specification. This is fraud plain and simple.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: norgan on May 02, 2014, 05:12:14 AM
such a firey debate! haha..........I can't help but think BFL has copped more flack than perhaps it should have...i'm not excusing anything they have done, I just understand some of it I guess and I certainly don't deny those unhappy customers their right to dissatisfaction nor do I think they are wrong.

Do you really consider preorder money for nonexistant hardware to be profit? Before shipping a single machine they are allowing employees and their family members free access to customer funds?

And how can you blame china for BFLs failures? Are you really BFL josh? How can component delays delay your product? You should have everything ready months in advanced. You do realize that a majority of the hashrate is powered by chinese machines? The a1 miners and bitmain have never sold preorders nor have they scammed customers like BFL has.

BFL has shown time and time again that they only use preorders as a marketing scheme. They don't sell in stock hardware because they are not confident in their abilities to deliver on time or to specification. This is fraud plain and simple.

Yes you are right, they should have had them ready before announcing shipping dates but they obviously didn't and can you blame them for trying to get in early and become the first to have fast efficient machines. IF they spent customer money before machines were built and delivered then they were very silly, it can only be profit once all the bills are paid and that includes customer refunds if applicable.

I think you'll find most companies balance stock with orders and will delay shipments (sure not as much as 6 months) but I guess that's the risk strategy BFL chose and it hasn't paid off for many of it's customers.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Bicknellski on May 02, 2014, 05:29:54 AM
FGPA's delayed and under spec.
65nm delayed and under spec.
28nm delayed and under spec.

Who is at fault?
Who took 1 year to deliver 65nm?
Who took 15+ months and counting to deliver 28nm?

Seriously. Only BFL is to blame for their failure to deliver in a timely fashion and given that it has happened every time they have put out product including CLOUD HASHING you know that this isn't supply chain or production issues it is likely a dragging your feet tactic in order set up a nice little pyramid pump... which has been explain many times in many threads. You get pre-order money. Fake a delay. Mine on equipment that you fab for "yourself". Delay further and push more pre-orders as others ask for refunds. Rinse and repeat. This is a scam straight up.

No one in their right mind knowing the details of what has gone on here is going to buy BFL ever again. Why would you? Antminer. Available now. You pay they ship. BFL is nothing more than a black hole where your pre-orders go in and refunds are stated as 30 to 45 days if ever but more like 12 months or longer in reality. That is a well managed scam and when the FTC does catch up with BFL it is going to be ugly.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: desired_username on May 02, 2014, 09:50:14 AM
FGPA's delayed and under spec.
65nm delayed and under spec.
28nm delayed and under spec.

Who is at fault?
Who took 1 year to deliver 65nm?
Who took 15+ months and counting to deliver 28nm?

Seriously. Only BFL is to blame for their failure to deliver in a timely fashion and given that it has happened every time they have put out product including CLOUD HASHING you know that this isn't supply chain or production issues it is likely a dragging your feet tactic in order set up a nice little pyramid pump... which has been explain many times in many threads. You get pre-order money. Fake a delay. Mine on equipment that you fab for "yourself". Delay further and push more pre-orders as others ask for refunds. Rinse and repeat. This is a scam straight up.

No one in their right mind knowing the details of what has gone on here is going to buy BFL every again. Why would you? Antminer. Available now. You pay they ship. BFL is nothing more than a black hole where your pre-orders go in and refunds are stated as 30 to 45 days if ever but more like 12 months or longer in reality. That is a well managed scam and when the FTC does catch up with BFL it is going to be ugly.

It describes Cointerra too. They use the same "business" model :)


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Bicknellski on May 02, 2014, 09:52:50 AM
FGPA's delayed and under spec.
65nm delayed and under spec.
28nm delayed and under spec.

Who is at fault?
Who took 1 year to deliver 65nm?
Who took 15+ months and counting to deliver 28nm?

Seriously. Only BFL is to blame for their failure to deliver in a timely fashion and given that it has happened every time they have put out product including CLOUD HASHING you know that this isn't supply chain or production issues it is likely a dragging your feet tactic in order set up a nice little pyramid pump... which has been explain many times in many threads. You get pre-order money. Fake a delay. Mine on equipment that you fab for "yourself". Delay further and push more pre-orders as others ask for refunds. Rinse and repeat. This is a scam straight up.

No one in their right mind knowing the details of what has gone on here is going to buy BFL every again. Why would you? Antminer. Available now. You pay they ship. BFL is nothing more than a black hole where your pre-orders go in and refunds are stated as 30 to 45 days if ever but more like 12 months or longer in reality. That is a well managed scam and when the FTC does catch up with BFL it is going to be ugly.

It describes Cointerra too. They use the same "business" model :)

Unfortunately that describes HashFast and others as well. Sadly the small guy gets screwed.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: bcp19 on May 03, 2014, 02:48:05 AM
Gee, to listen to you, one would think companies never make a profit.  That transcript you keep harping on talks about $2.5mil in revenue from 2012 for the FPGAs, and I highly doubt that it cost that much to produce them, so there had to be a profit.  Are you trying to say it's wrong to use the profit from a company?  I'm glad I dont work for you, you probably force your employees to pay to come to work.  Kinda like your WASP project, pay to participate...

Let's see what the actual court had to say.

Quote
Q. Now, should people who have company credit cards use them for personal expenses?
A. They should not.

Q. All right. And so does that continue on, do you know,by -- by Mr. Vleisides?
A. I -- I will say that it probably has continued.

Let me highlight the important comment from the court...

Quote
A. They should not.

Hmm, who's right? bcp19 or the court...
As usual, you are taking things out of context.  Bickfailski said
"Maybe we should ask Josh how he uses his company Diner's Club card? Maybe they pay for meals for BCP and PG when they are in town I am sure that your pre-order money is well spend lavishing food and trinkets on those who would shill for BFL right? I don't think any BFL customers would be happy to learn personal expenses are the norm for employees with credit cards."

Which is what my comment was in reference to.

Since you bring it up though, that WASN'T the court answering, it was BFL's accountant.  Now, let's look CAREFULLY at that wording... they SHOULD not.  Should is used in statements like you SHOULD eat more fruit, it's like a recommendation, not an absolute.  They SHOULD not means it's not a recommended practice, but you and the other trolls treat it like the statement was "That is absolutely wrong and against the law".  Guess you flunked English, eh?


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Bicknellski on May 03, 2014, 03:55:27 AM
BCP is a paid advocate for BFL. He took dinner and a miner paid for by pre-orders which is customer money. Ethically he like BFL has no standing in this community and when asked a clear majority of people here understand that and will not BUY BFL based on the facts as posted 1000s of times here in these forums by 100s of dissatisfied customers. It is best to ignore him and keep pushing all avenues to have BFL brought to justice. Currently the class action and reporting BFL to the probation officer for current failures of the 28nm Monarch delivery would be the right move.

Here are my predictions.

Sonny V. gets jail time in 2014.
Check out claims 44, 52 and 55 (b) viii reagarding Eclipse mining.  (http://www.woodlaw.com/sites/default/files/casedocs/2014-04-04%20Complaint.pdf)
28nm Monarch doesn't ship until later in 2014 after more delays.
BFL is forced to refund everyone or they go bankrupt in 2014.

There is nothing in what BCP has said or will say that is truthful and honest about the BFL scam. He is not an honest broker here in this community and when this is all finally put to rest in the courts there will be no where he can hide to twist the argument to suit his perverse need to debate what are known facts. In the end the truth will come out. Discovery will show they have used customer units to profit and then delayed shipping in order to profit further you can't hide the TX ID on what was mined. They are doing the same thing right now with the 28nm no doubt. Let us see this house of cards come down in 2014 and hopefully customers can get their money back.


Quote
If you have paid for Buttery Labs equipment, yet failed to receive your order or failed to receive it by the promised time, please contact our office using the form below.


http://www.woodlaw.com/cases/butterfly-labs-and-bf-labs-inc-bitcoin-miners


Quote
Thank you for contacting the Wood Law Firm regarding this case or investigation. We look forward to discussing it with you.

We are usually able to respond within 24 hours, and often much less. If you would like to speak directly with our office staff, or need a more immediate reply, please call us toll-free at 888-237-0999.

Please remember the submission of this form does not mean we can or will represent you in this matter. We can only represent you if both you and we agree, in writing, that we will serve as your attorney.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Bicknellski on May 03, 2014, 04:43:07 AM
What kind of business is BFL?

Will they honor and refund your purchase?

Take a LONG HARD LOOK at what lengths they will go to NOT refund people.


AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSES AKA  "SOME VERY VERY GOOD REASONS NEVER TO BUY BFL AGAIN BECAUSE THIS IS HOW THEY WILL SLIME OUT OF AGREEMENTS TO SHIP ON TIME AND NOT REFUND ACCORDING TO FTC REGULATIONS." (http://www.woodlaw.com/sites/default/files/casedocs/2014-04-04%20Complaint.pdf)

Code:
Defendant BF Labs states the following for its affirmative defenses to Plaintiffs’ Complaint:

1. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred as Plaintiffs accepted the terms of their pre-order and
understood that all sales were final and that there was a backlog of orders and production and
delivery of any order may take two months or longer.

2. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred because BF Labs “FAQ” website states it reserves
“the right to handle refund requests on a case by case basis” and pre-ordered products are nonrefundable
as is clearly stated at the time of purchase.

3. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred because Plaintiffs understood that deliveries may take
two months or more after order.

4. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred because Plaintiffs expressly agreed to a pre-order
arrangement, knowing delay would be two months or longer and BF Labs was unable to make
any representation regarding the length of delay.

5. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred as the products in question are designed and
manufactured in accordance with the standards in the industry.

6. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred because the products in question underwent burn
testing for a minimal amount of time and had not be assigned to a customer order at the time of
the burn testing.

7. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred because untested products are not finished goods and
could not be customers’ equipment.

8. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred pursuant to K.S.A. 84-2-501, in that the products in
question were not identified in any contract at the time of the pre-order.

9. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred because burn testing was done to warrant the product
as fit and suitable for the purposes for which it is sold.

10. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred because BF Labs exercised reasonable care to prevent
and promptly correct any delays that Plaintiffs complains of.

11. Plaintiffs’ alleged damages request cannot be sustained as unconscionable.

12. Each and every claim contained in Plaintiffs’ Complaint fails to state a claim upon
which relief can be granted.

13. Plaintiffs’ claims for damages are barred in whole or in part because Plaintiffs
have suffered no damages.

14. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred in whole or in part based on the doctrine of election
of remedies.

15. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred by reason of Plaintiffs’ breaches or failures to perform
conditions precedent or subsequent.

16. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred for the reason that any actions or inactions of BF
Labs were economically justified.

17. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred by reason of Plaintiffs’ unclean hands.

18. Plaintiffs’ alleged damages, which are denied, were caused by intervening and
superseding acts over which BF Labs had no control or right of control, thereby barring or
diminishing Plaintiffs’ alleged right of recovery.

19. The damages claimed by Plaintiffs are not recoverable, in whole or in part, under
Kansas or federal law.

20. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred by a prior settlement and/or release of those claims or
are barred to the extent Plaintiffs have entered into an accord and satisfaction or otherwise
compromised their claims.

21. In further answer to Plaintiffs’ Complaint and by way of Affirmative Defense,
Defendant adopts all Affirmative Defenses available to it under the Kansas Uniform Commercial
Code or any other Uniform Commercial Code enacted by a state whose substantive law controls
in this action.

22. Defendant’s actions were neither the cause in fact nor the proximate cause of
Plaintiffs’ injuries, if any.

23. Defendant is entitled to the benefit of all defenses and presumptions contained in,
or arising from, any product liability act and/or Kansas Uniform Commercial Code.

24. The alleged damages sustained by Plaintiffs were the result of Plaintiffs’ own
comparative fault or any other “fault” pursuant to K.S.A. 60-258a and, accordingly, Plaintiffs are
barred from recovery or limited in their recovery.

25. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred, in whole or in part, by the equitable doctrines of
waiver and estoppel.

26. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred by the doctrine of justification.

27. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred, in whole or in part, by the doctrine of ratification.

28. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred by all applicable statutes of limitation.

29. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred, in whole or in part, pursuant to First Amendment of
the United States Constitution and similar applicable state constitutional provisions.

30. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred by the doctrine of spoliation and the failure to
properly preserve evidence necessary to the proper and just determination of this action.

31. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred to the extent Plaintiffs entered into an accord and
satisfaction or otherwise compromised their claims.

32. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred by the doctrines of repudiation and anticipatory
breach.

33. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred to the extent Plaintiffs prevented BF Labs from
performing.

34. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred based on Plaintiffs’ rejection of goods, as well as
Plaintiffs’ revocation of acceptance of goods.

35. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred by the doctrine of mistake.

36. Plaintiffs have failed to mitigate their damages, if any, or otherwise take
reasonable steps to minimize or prevent the damages Plaintiffs claims to have suffered. Plaintiffs
also, once they realized a claim existed, were under an obligation to minimize their alleged loss,
if any. As a result, any recovery against Defendant should be barred, reduced, or offset
accordingly.

37. Plaintiffs’ damages should be reduced as an offset by any amount received by any
other payment to mitigate damages.

38. BF Labs reserves the right to amend its Answer to assert additional defenses,
affirmative or otherwise, that may arise or become known through the course of further
investigation or discovery.



Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Bicknellski on May 03, 2014, 04:54:46 AM
Here is what BFL will admit to in the claims made against them:

Code:
4. BF Labs admits the allegations contained in paragraph 4 of the Complaint.

4. Defendant BF Labs, Inc. is a Wyoming corporation with its principal place
of business at 10770 El Monte St., #101, Leawood, Johnson County, Kansas.

5. BF Labs admits the allegations contained in paragraph 5 of the Complaint.

5. Defendant is registered to do business in the State of Kansas and
maintains a registered agent at 112 SW 7th Street, Suite 3C, Topeka, Kansas.

8. BF Labs admits the allegations contained in paragraph 8 of the Complaint.

8. Defendant advertises itself to the public as a manufacturer of specialized
computer equipment and processors for the task of mining bitcoins.


9. BF Labs admits the allegations contained in paragraph 9 of the Complaint.

9. Bitcoin is a peer-to-peer payment system and digital currency created in
2009. Unlike traditional currency, bitcoins are not issued by a government or central
banking authority.
 

10. BF Labs admits the allegations contained in paragraph 10 of the Complaint

10. Bitcoin is considered a “cryptocurrency” because cryptography is used to
control the creation and transfer of the currency, creating a distributed, decentralized,
and secure medium of exchange.


11. BF Labs admits the allegations contained in paragraph 11 of the Complaint.

11. Bitcoins are regularly used to pay debts, purchase goods and services, and
are exchanged for other currencies such as the U.S. dollar, U.K. pound sterling, or euro.
For example on March 19, 2014, one bitcoin could be exchanged for an average of
$613.12.


12. BF Labs admits the allegations contained in paragraph 12 of the Complaint.

12. Bitcoins are created by “mining”, a process where “miners” receive
transaction fees and newly minted bitcoins in return for verifying and recording
payments into a public ledger.


14. BF Labs admits the allegations contained in paragraph 14 of the Complaint.

14. As the difficulty of Bitcoin mining has increased over time, the computer
hardware required to profitably mine has advanced from general purpose CPUs (found
in common desktop computers), high-end GPUs (often found in gaming computers),
FPGAs (field-programmable gate arrays), and ultimately to ASICs (application-specific
integrated circuits) purpose built for performing the calculations necessary for Bitcoin
mining.


16. BF Labs admits the allegations contained in paragraph 16 of the Complaint.

16. At the time of the formation of Defendant through the present, Mr.
Vleisides was serving a term of supervised release for a felony conviction for Mail Fraud,
in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1341, in the United States District Court for the Central
District of California.

17. BF Labs admits the allegations contained in paragraph 17 of the Complaint.

17. Defendant using the name “Butterfly Labs” advertised for sale via the
Internet a variety of ASIC based Bitcoin mining hardware, stating “Butterfly Labs
manufactures a line of high speed encryption processors for use in bitcoin mining,
research, telecommunication and security applications”.


21. BF Labs admits the allegations contained in paragraph 21 of the Complaint.

21. Defendant represented its Bitcoin mining products were “in production”
and “real”.

31. BF Labs admits the allegations contained in paragraph 31 of the Complaint.

31. In or about 2012, Defendant purchased a business known as “Eclipse
Mining Consortium”, which operates as a Bitcoin mining pool, an organization which
permits the combination of Bitcoin mining efforts to offer participants faster, yet
smaller, bitcoin distributions than would be achievable if the participants conducted
mining operations on their own.


34. BF Labs admits the allegations contained in paragraph 34 of the Complaint.

34. Defendant has collected millions of dollars from customers for pre-orders
of Bitcoin mining hardware.


35. BF Labs admits the allegations contained in paragraph 35 of the Complaint.

35. Prior to discontinuing Defendant’s ability to accept payments through the
service, Paypal alone had processed over $11 million dollars in pre-payments for
Defendant’s hardware.

38. BF Labs admits the allegations contained in paragraph 38 of the Complaint.

38. In June of 2013, Plaintiff Kyle Alexander ordered a Bitcoin mining
machine from Defendant.


39. BF Labs admits the allegations contained in paragraph 39 of the Complaint.

39. Plaintiff Kyle Alexander paid $308.00 to Defendant via PayPal for this
equipment.

46. BF Labs admits the allegations contained in paragraph 46 of the Complaint.

46. Since Plaintiff Kyle Alexander pre-paid for his order of mining equipment
from Defendant in June of 2013, numerous bitcoins have been mined by others, and the
difficulty of mining new bitcoins has substantially increased over such time.

47. BF Labs admits the allegations contained in paragraph 47 of the Complaint.

47. On April 3, 2013, Plaintiff Dylan Symington ordered a Bitcoin mining
machine from Defendant.

48. BF Labs admits the allegations contained in paragraph 48 of the Complaint.

48. Plaintiff Dylan Symington paid $1,333.00 to Defendant via PayPal for this
equipment.

51. BF Labs admits the allegations contained in paragraph 51 of the Complaint.

51. Nearly seven months after receiving payment, on November 1, 2013,
Defendant shipped mining equipment to Plaintiff Dylan Symington.

59. BF Labs admits the allegations contained in paragraph 59 of the Complaint.

59. In pertinent part, the Kansas Consumer Protection Act, K.S.A. § 50-626
provides:
No supplier shall engage in any deceptive act or practice in
connection with a consumer transaction[.]


60. BF Labs admits the allegations contained in paragraph 60 of the Complaint.

60. In pertinent part, the Kansas Consumer Protection Act, K.S.A. § 50-627
provides:
No supplier shall engage in any unconscionable act or
practice in connection with a consumer transaction.


61. BF Labs admits the allegations contained in paragraph 61 of the Complaint.

61. Defendant is a manufacturer, distributor, dealer, seller, lessor, assignor, or
other person who, in the ordinary course of business solicits, engages in or enforces
consumer transactions, and is therefore a “supplier” as defined in K.S.A. § 50-624(l).

64. BF Labs admits the allegations contained in paragraph 64 of the Complaint.

64. The Kansas Consumer Protection Act, K.S.A. § 50-634 provides for a
private right of action for “a consumer who is aggrieved by a violation of this act.”


76. BF Labs admits the allegations contained in paragraph 76 of the Complaint.

76. A benefit was conferred on Defendant in that Plaintiffs paid money and/or
bitcoins to Defendant


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Syke on May 03, 2014, 05:00:44 AM
Code:
6. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred because the products in question underwent burn
testing for a minimal amount of time and had not be assigned to a customer order at the time of
the burn testing.

7. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred because untested products are not finished goods and
could not be customers’ equipment.

Do I understand this correctly? They mine with hardware that will be sent to customers, but claim it isn't customer hardware because there isn't an order number attached to the machine yet, and it isn't customer hardware because they're not yet finished mining with it??? Only after they finish mining with it, then it becomes customer hardware.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: lysernix on May 03, 2014, 05:10:16 AM
My experience started with a Jalapeno and a 60ghs single
Both stable running Jalapeno since feb 2014 up to today and single mar2014 to apr214
The single is noisy its like a hair dryer open all the time and it consumes 275 w
wish it was quite ...it like it being stable
Jalapeno needs to be run cool so a spare usb fan is poing it at it and now its been 10days whith
no reset.
Actually would be friendly with the idea of buying another jalapeno its a pity that BFL has lost her
reputation...now would not buy from them I have read so many bad stories.

Just FYI bud... take the cover off that single. You'll go mad listening to that noise. Without the cover it's fine.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: lysernix on May 03, 2014, 05:19:56 AM
Code:
6. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred because the products in question underwent burn
testing for a minimal amount of time and had not be assigned to a customer order at the time of
the burn testing.

7. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred because untested products are not finished goods and
could not be customers’ equipment.

Do I understand this correctly? They mine with hardware that will be sent to customers, but claim it isn't customer hardware because there isn't an order number attached to the machine yet, and it isn't customer hardware because they're not yet finished mining with it??? Only after they finish mining with it, then it becomes customer hardware.

You know what is going to happen... how do you explain weeks of burn in?
How do you explain all the BTC they mined as only testing?
How do they explain delaying shipping of units when after a few hours of burn in they were "working"?

There is a TX ID trail that is going to show what actually happened and when it does there will be 100s or potentially 1000's of units mining at Eclipse for BFL as "burn in" testing for weeks then being replaced at regular intervals with new machines. You know what they did. First they said they never mined anything now they admit the mined for burn in... what do you think really happened here? The scam will proven at that instant and no one is going accept that as standard practice. This is where they get demolished in court. If I had purchased a BFL unit I would be joining this class actions asap to make sure I got a piece of that pie. This shell game they played is going to be easy to discover.



I personally believe they calculated it out so that no one would EVER receive a piece of hardware that provided ANY ROI. The INSTANT that the hardware would never mine as much as it cost... THAT'S when they ship it!

I have a couple pieces of BFL equipment and I know some people who've had a ton of it. They were luckily able to break even and even profit by mining for a VERY short period of time and then flipping them on ebay (this is months ago mostly with jalapenos, singles, couple FPGAs).

I would be interested to learn of a SINGLE person, who, bought a BFL miner with either cash or bitcoin and then with JUST that miner was able to recover their investment and then some - solely by mining. I don't think that person exists.

And the monarchs. LOL. What a joke.

The only thing I wish that could happen.... could BFL please be around long enough (long shot!) to promise some sort of round 3 hardware? I would LOVE to see the specs, promises, and explanations about the development and turnaround on that one! It's comedy relief!

Whenever I'm bored I honestly look for BFL threads for entertainment. They're so fun to read! :p


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Bicknellski on May 03, 2014, 05:25:21 AM
Missed my edit.

You know what is going to happen...

How will they explain two-weeksTM of burn in or potentially MONTHS of burn-in?
How will they explain all the BTC they mined as only testing?
How will they explain delayed shipping of units when we all know that after a few hours of burn in they were "working"?
Where are all those Josh / Inaba posts where he claims not to be mining with customer units?
What is the test net for again?

There is a TX ID trail that is going to show what actually happened and when it does there will be 100s or potentially 1000's of units mining at Eclipse for BFL as "burn in" testing for weeks then being replaced at regular intervals with new machines. You know what they did. First they said they never mined anything now they admit they mined for burn in... what do you think really happened here? The scam will be proven at that instant and no one is going accept that as standard practice in Bitcoin as evidenced by other fabricators.

This is where they get demolished in court. If I had purchased a BFL unit I would be joining this class action suit asap to make sure I got a piece of that pie because those BITCOINS are the customers not BFL's. People should be pissed off and going to town on BFL. This shell game they played is going to be easy to discover and there is no way they can worm out of this. They may be doing it right now with the Monarch 28nm... the probation officer should be checking out Eclipse asap and do some forensics there to see what kind of chips are mining. Maybe a nice IRS audit is what BFL and Eclipse need eh?


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: bcp19 on May 03, 2014, 01:33:03 PM
BCP is a paid advocate for BFL. He took dinner and a miner paid for by pre-orders which is customer money. Ethically he like BFL has no standing in this community and when asked a clear majority of people here understand that and will not BUY BFL based on the facts as posted 1000s of times here in these forums by 100s of dissatisfied customers. It is best to ignore him and keep pushing all avenues to have BFL brought to justice. Currently the class action and reporting BFL to the probation officer for current failures of the 28nm Monarch delivery would be the right move.

Here are my predictions.

Sonny V. gets jail time in 2014.
Check out claims 44, 52 and 55 (b) viii reagarding Eclipse mining.  (http://www.woodlaw.com/sites/default/files/casedocs/2014-04-04%20Complaint.pdf)
28nm Monarch doesn't ship until later in 2014 after more delays.
BFL is forced to refund everyone or they go bankrupt in 2014.

There is nothing in what BCP has said or will say that is truthful and honest about the BFL scam. He is not an honest broker here in this community and when this is all finally put to rest in the courts there will be no where he can hide to twist the argument to suit is perverse need to debate what are known facts. In the end the truth will come out. Discovery will show they have used customer units to profit and then delayed shipping in order to profit further you can't hide the TX ID on what was mined. They are doing the same thing right now with the 28nm no doubt. Let us see this house of cards come down in 2014 and hopefully customers can get their money back.
Wow Bickfailski, you are still at it, and going so over the top you are almost as big a failure as Syke!

Since you like deleting posts and editing them, I'm quoting you for posterity.

I like how you claim to never lie, but your current post is full of them.  I've never advocated BFL, I've just told stupid people (like yourself) that they were stupid.  Examples:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150803.msg2954332#msg2954332
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150803.msg2958112#msg2958112 <-- I even hit my mark, I said *may* get my Jalapeno by Christmas, got it in Nov
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=277135.msg2959331#msg2959331
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=266945.msg2983795#msg2983795

The funny part here is that I am not an advocate, nor am I a shill, *I* am what 90+% of people on this forum are, I AM A TROLL and Bickfailski got trolled for his trolling.  I honestly could care less about this company or that, I just enjoy telling stupid people they are stupid, and by the definition of TROLL, that makes me one.  Where are all the "BFL is a long con" trolls?  They repeatedly said the company would take the money and run, yet they shipped product!  Looks like they've changed their tune to BFL is a FRAUD!  Having been wrong once, that obviously means they are right now, correct? Pfft.

5 months Late Bickfail, where are your WASPs?  Oh, right, you just posted that you're redesigning again.  You didn't even have to design an ASIC chip and you're a 5 month late failure.  THANK GOD you didn't design an ASIC, the way you're operating, you wouldn't have gotten it ready before 2020.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Gleb Gamow on September 25, 2014, 03:57:46 AM
BCP is a paid advocate for BFL. He took dinner and a miner paid for by pre-orders which is customer money. Ethically he like BFL has no standing in this community and when asked a clear majority of people here understand that and will not BUY BFL based on the facts as posted 1000s of times here in these forums by 100s of dissatisfied customers. It is best to ignore him and keep pushing all avenues to have BFL brought to justice. Currently the class action and reporting BFL to the probation officer for current failures of the 28nm Monarch delivery would be the right move.

Here are my predictions.

Sonny V. gets jail time in 2014.
Check out claims 44, 52 and 55 (b) viii reagarding Eclipse mining.  (http://www.woodlaw.com/sites/default/files/casedocs/2014-04-04%20Complaint.pdf)
28nm Monarch doesn't ship until later in 2014 after more delays.
BFL is forced to refund everyone or they go bankrupt in 2014.

There is nothing in what BCP has said or will say that is truthful and honest about the BFL scam. He is not an honest broker here in this community and when this is all finally put to rest in the courts there will be no where he can hide to twist the argument to suit is perverse need to debate what are known facts. In the end the truth will come out. Discovery will show they have used customer units to profit and then delayed shipping in order to profit further you can't hide the TX ID on what was mined. They are doing the same thing right now with the 28nm no doubt. Let us see this house of cards come down in 2014 and hopefully customers can get their money back.
Wow Bickfailski, you are still at it, and going so over the top you are almost as big a failure as Syke!

Since you like deleting posts and editing them, I'm quoting you for posterity.

I like how you claim to never lie, but your current post is full of them.  I've never advocated BFL, I've just told stupid people (like yourself) that they were stupid.  Examples:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150803.msg2954332#msg2954332
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150803.msg2958112#msg2958112 <-- I even hit my mark, I said *may* get my Jalapeno by Christmas, got it in Nov
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=277135.msg2959331#msg2959331
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=266945.msg2983795#msg2983795

The funny part here is that I am not an advocate, nor am I a shill, *I* am what 90+% of people on this forum are, I AM A TROLL and Bickfailski got trolled for his trolling.  I honestly could care less about this company or that, I just enjoy telling stupid people they are stupid, and by the definition of TROLL, that makes me one.  Where are all the "BFL is a long con" trolls?  They repeatedly said the company would take the money and run, yet they shipped product!  Looks like they've changed their tune to BFL is a FRAUD!  Having been wrong once, that obviously means they are right now, correct? Pfft.

5 months Late Bickfail, where are your WASPs?  Oh, right, you just posted that you're redesigning again.  You didn't even have to design an ASIC chip and you're a 5 month late failure.  THANK GOD you didn't design an ASIC, the way you're operating, you wouldn't have gotten it ready before 2020.

Tune hasn't changed!


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: k9quaint on September 25, 2014, 04:11:16 AM
BCP is a paid advocate for BFL. He took dinner and a miner paid for by pre-orders which is customer money. Ethically he like BFL has no standing in this community and when asked a clear majority of people here understand that and will not BUY BFL based on the facts as posted 1000s of times here in these forums by 100s of dissatisfied customers. It is best to ignore him and keep pushing all avenues to have BFL brought to justice. Currently the class action and reporting BFL to the probation officer for current failures of the 28nm Monarch delivery would be the right move.

Here are my predictions.

Sonny V. gets jail time in 2014. Looking very likely after FTC shuttering BFL
Check out claims 44, 52 and 55 (b) viii reagarding Eclipse mining.  (http://www.woodlaw.com/sites/default/files/casedocs/2014-04-04%20Complaint.pdf) Clearly on to something
28nm Monarch doesn't ship until later in 2014 after more delays. has already come true
BFL is forced to refund everyone or they go bankrupt in 2014. BFL is already in receivership, shutdown by the government

There is nothing in what BCP has said or will say that is truthful and honest about the BFL scam. He is not an honest broker here in this community and when this is all finally put to rest in the courts there will be no where he can hide to twist the argument to suit is perverse need to debate what are known facts. In the end the truth will come out. Discovery will show they have used customer units to profit and then delayed shipping in order to profit further you can't hide the TX ID on what was mined. They are doing the same thing right now with the 28nm no doubt. Let us see this house of cards come down in 2014 and hopefully customers can get their money back.
<random shilling from BCP removed>

Looks like Bicknellski is gonna be 4 for 4 and BCP was wrong per usual.
Pretty good predictions from 5 months ago.  ;)


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Unacceptable on September 25, 2014, 05:02:22 AM
Thanks for sharing this GG  :D  Everyone should see this  ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeuCHhm1rVg


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Bicknellski on September 25, 2014, 05:12:27 AM
Let me clear up nothing real quick:

  • BFL stole nothing. Unless someone can provide some proof to the contrary, they are lying.


https://coinreport.net/butterfly-labs-civil-lawsuit/

Quote
  • BFL has scammed no one. Unless someone can provide proof to the contrary, they are lying. (Go on, ask for proof from the trolls claiming scams, you'll never get it.)

Delivering non-advertised product 6+ months later than advertised date along with no refunds = scamming.

Quote
  • There was no promised shipping date for the Monarch line and in fact there were big bold text stating that it is a preorder and subject to delay. Anyone who tells you the Monarch is late and that BFL made promises on delivery time is lying.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/deceit

Quote
  • BFL has shipped over 50,000 products in the 65nm line. The failure rate is less than 1% (0.72%) not including power supplies.  If you include power supplies, that goes to 1.65%.  Far lower than industry average and a simply awesome (lack of) failure rate. Contrast to the other mining companies shittiest mining companies equipment, which has double digit failure rates and it's even better.  Anyone who tells you differently is lying.

FTFY

Quote
  • OP's experience is the norm. People rarely come to a forum to post when they have a positive experience, they usually come and post to complain. After 50,000 units shipped and you look at the complaints, that should tell you something.  Most people are not complaining, just a handful of disgruntled people and a whole lot of trolls who aren't even customers.

People rarely come to post positive experience? What about spondoolies/asicminer/bitfury/bitmain/chinese miners/all the non-shit companies?

It is amazing that with only 50,000 units shipped you managed to rack up over 1,000 FTC/PP complaints. Must be some sort of record.

The truth certainly will not change what Inaba says he is morally and ethically bankrupt Jimmothy. Soon he will be selling out Sonny V. for his own freedom. The end is coming for BFL and old Joshy better get his own lawyer before he gets thrown under the bus.

And the OP can post his evidence here... he doesn't need to email me. Let the community decide whether his evidence passes muster. Again given the horrible treatment of customers that is well documented particularly the FTC complaints when BFL was NOT giving refunds when they were legally required to do so is something that the probation officer needs for Sonny V. needs to be made aware of. You can't ignore the reality. BFL are morally and ethically challenged and will do anything they can to keep this racket going for a long as they can. There will be plenty of evidence coming to light soon enough that will scatter the cockroaches.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: norgan on September 25, 2014, 05:48:00 AM
I'd love to understand what exactly went on and what everyone was thinking. Maybe my experience was one that they were trying to boost their image by swapping out equipment that was useless anyway and they had plenty of just sitting around.

Guess we'll never know but if enough evidence has been gathered to shut them down, I'm not going to argue.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Bicknellski on September 25, 2014, 06:03:17 AM
I'd love to understand what exactly went on and what everyone was thinking. Maybe my experience was one that they were trying to boost their image by swapping out equipment that was useless anyway and they had plenty of just sitting around.

Guess we'll never know but if enough evidence has been gathered to shut them down, I'm not going to argue.

We know.

They were scamming people. Read the FTC documents and read all the posts made in these forums from customers who have complained since day one. BFL is rightly shut down because they were scamming people out of MILLIONS of dollars.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: norgan on September 25, 2014, 06:07:09 AM
I'd love to understand what exactly went on and what everyone was thinking. Maybe my experience was one that they were trying to boost their image by swapping out equipment that was useless anyway and they had plenty of just sitting around.

Guess we'll never know but if enough evidence has been gathered to shut them down, I'm not going to argue.

We know.

They were scamming people. Read the FTC documents and read all the posts made in these forums from customers who have complained since day one. BFL is rightly shut down because they were scamming people out of MILLIONS of dollars.

haha yeah but I mean what were individuals thinking etc. they were pretty successful at it for quite a while, they even still got people to buy into pre-orders after several failed delivery dates and all kinds of backlash. how much of this is the scammers fault and how much is the "gamblers" fault. ;)

either way good to see due process has served and they have been duly shut down to save anyone else from getting scammed. Luckily I never actually purchased anything from them ;)


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: sbogovac on September 25, 2014, 08:45:57 AM
Latest update on the BFL homepage:

"BF Labs, Inc. has been placed in a temporary receivership pursuant to court order, Case No. 4:14-cv-00815-BCW. There will be a hearing on September 29, 2014 at 9:00 a.m. at the Charles Evans Whittaker Courthouse in Kansas City, Missouri. At the hearing, the court will consider this matter. Questions may be directed to the temporary receiver at: eljreceiver@spencerfane.com or 816-292-8316."

Please people, this aint over "till the fat lady sings"; contact the receiver and explain your position in this!

(My story is something like: ordered in jan. expected delivery in march/april, due to BFL's non-delivery I missed this much BTC income by the time BFL refunded me [after another 45 day wait] in august and I finally could divert that investment to another producer [Antminer] who did deliver in two weeks, in the mean time BFL banned me permanently off the forum so I could not communicate properly with either them or other customers.)


PS@Bicknellski: owe you my sincere apologies and gratitude "dude"...  :)


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Gleb Gamow on September 25, 2014, 11:02:36 AM
Latest update on the BFL homepage:

"BF Labs, Inc. has been placed in a temporary receivership pursuant to court order, Case No. 4:14-cv-00815-BCW. There will be a hearing on September 29, 2014 at 9:00 a.m. at the Charles Evans Whittaker Courthouse in Kansas City, Missouri. At the hearing, the court will consider this matter. Questions may be directed to the temporary receiver at: eljreceiver@spencerfane.com or 816-292-8316."

Please people, this aint over "till the fat lady sings"; contact the receiver and explain your position in this!

(My story is something like: ordered in jan. expected delivery in march/april, due to BFL's non-delivery I missed this much BTC income by the time BFL refunded me [after another 45 day wait] in august and I finally could divert that investment to another producer [Antminer] who did deliver in two weeks, in the mean time BFL banned me permanently off the forum so I could not communicate properly with either them or other customers.)


PS@Bicknellski: owe you my sincere apologies and gratitude "dude"...  :)

PSS@Bicknellski: I, too, desire to offer up my apology, albeit for what, I honestly don't know, but duly hope that the red-ass he has/had toward me has lessened.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: opieum2 on September 25, 2014, 11:15:16 AM
Anyone who has been a customer of BFL is already included automatically in this and likely will be eligible for redress even if we got a refund. Their 45 day refund policy was expressly against the law as it is as there are FTC policies they violated just on that to START with. The civil case will lead to a criminal one for certain. That is the purpose of catching them off guard so they could get caught with their hand in the cookie jar so to speak.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Gleb Gamow on September 25, 2014, 11:22:34 AM
Anyone who has been a customer of BFL is already included automatically in this and likely will be eligible for redress even if we got a refund. Their 45 day refund policy was expressly against the law as it is as there are FTC policies they violated just on that to START with. The civil case will lead to a criminal one for certain. That is the purpose of catching them off guard so they could get caught with their hand in the cookie jar so to speak.

Surely, BFL won't pull a HashFast and offer up proof depicting that they only have ~$18K USD in their coffer. Thus, seeks permission from the courts to liquidate X for $Y USD to pay the skeleton staff and protect their IP during these trying times.

"Josh Zerlan, raise your right hand and place your tail on this coffee table. Do you squeaky swear..."


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: opieum2 on September 25, 2014, 04:05:36 PM
Bickellinski + Nostradamus = Bickstradamus

BCP is a paid advocate for BFL. He took dinner and a miner paid for by pre-orders which is customer money. Ethically he like BFL has no standing in this community and when asked a clear majority of people here understand that and will not BUY BFL based on the facts as posted 1000s of times here in these forums by 100s of dissatisfied customers. It is best to ignore him and keep pushing all avenues to have BFL brought to justice. Currently the class action and reporting BFL to the probation officer for current failures of the 28nm Monarch delivery would be the right move.

Here are my predictions.

Sonny V. gets jail time in 2014. Looking very likely after FTC shuttering BFL
Check out claims 44, 52 and 55 (b) viii reagarding Eclipse mining.  (http://www.woodlaw.com/sites/default/files/casedocs/2014-04-04%20Complaint.pdf) Clearly on to something
28nm Monarch doesn't ship until later in 2014 after more delays. has already come true
BFL is forced to refund everyone or they go bankrupt in 2014. BFL is already in receivership, shutdown by the government

There is nothing in what BCP has said or will say that is truthful and honest about the BFL scam. He is not an honest broker here in this community and when this is all finally put to rest in the courts there will be no where he can hide to twist the argument to suit is perverse need to debate what are known facts. In the end the truth will come out. Discovery will show they have used customer units to profit and then delayed shipping in order to profit further you can't hide the TX ID on what was mined. They are doing the same thing right now with the 28nm no doubt. Let us see this house of cards come down in 2014 and hopefully customers can get their money back.
<random shilling from BCP removed>

Looks like Bicknellski is gonna be 4 for 4 and BCP was wrong per usual.
Pretty good predictions from 5 months ago.  ;)


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: opieum2 on September 25, 2014, 04:08:01 PM
They wont be able to now. Receivership is REALLY bad for them to be in. And the FTC is directly going over their books now. That was the idea to catch them off guard before they could cook the books. Let's hope they do the same to other players pulling the same crap (AMT for starters).

Anyone who has been a customer of BFL is already included automatically in this and likely will be eligible for redress even if we got a refund. Their 45 day refund policy was expressly against the law as it is as there are FTC policies they violated just on that to START with. The civil case will lead to a criminal one for certain. That is the purpose of catching them off guard so they could get caught with their hand in the cookie jar so to speak.

Surely, BFL won't pull a HashFast and offer up proof depicting that they only have ~$18K USD in their coffer. Thus, seeks permission from the courts to liquidate X for $Y USD to pay the skeleton staff and protect their IP during these trying times.

"Josh Zerlan, raise your right hand and place your tail on this coffee table. Do you squeaky swear..."


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Bicknellski on September 25, 2014, 04:20:18 PM
Luckyguesstradamus.

This is the one I hope comes true.

The truth certainly will not change what Inaba says he is morally and ethically bankrupt Jimmothy. Soon he will be selling out Sonny V. for his own freedom. The end is coming for BFL and old Joshy better get his own lawyer before he gets thrown under the bus.



Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Inaba on September 25, 2014, 10:49:02 PM
The only one that is morally, ethically and intellectually bankrupt here is you, Mr. Wasp, I mean Darin Bicknell.  How's your illegal school going?


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Askit2 on September 25, 2014, 10:54:42 PM
I'd love to understand what exactly went on and what everyone was thinking. Maybe my experience was one that they were trying to boost their image by swapping out equipment that was useless anyway and they had plenty of just sitting around.

Guess we'll never know but if enough evidence has been gathered to shut them down, I'm not going to argue.

Looking back through this I wonder now how my order got so screwed up. Not the 9+ months of waiting for them to ship some jalapeno's but the additional 2 weeks (actually almost exactly 14 days) delay between when they said they shipped my units and when they actually shipped them. My order had a glitch. Apparently their system wouldn't ever make jalapeno 8 packs. Odd cause they listed it as a product. Anyways the crux of my new issue with it is why was my previous order waiting for 2 more weeks of orders to ship out if nothing had a customer number on it till after it was tested? I think that was a lie. They had them marked for orders and tracked them by that number through production. They maybe didn't ship them till after testing but it was definitely not FCFS on tested hardware.

Thread is here:
 DO NOT POST SESC LINKS


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Starlightbreaker on September 25, 2014, 10:58:42 PM
The only one that is morally, ethically and intellectually bankrupt here is you, Mr. Wasp, I mean Darin Bicknell.  How's your illegal school going?

and this shitbag is still around?

must have hidden his assets carefully.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: xstr8guy on September 25, 2014, 11:03:20 PM
The only one that is morally, ethically and intellectually bankrupt here is you, Mr. Wasp, I mean Darin Bicknell.  How's your illegal school going?


You really should have a lawyer advising you to not be antagonistic in public forums. It won't make your company look better in the FTC's eyes, that's for sure. And you can be assured that many people here are making it known to the FTC how you've treated customers in the past.

Personally I find it amazing that you so far have appeared to escape Federal scrutiny. Good luck with that!


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Syke on September 25, 2014, 11:12:46 PM
The only one that is morally, ethically and intellectually bankrupt here is you, Mr. Wasp, I mean Darin Bicknell.  How's your illegal school going?

The FTC shuts you down, yet you still come here to spout madness. How do you plan to hide your employer on your resume? You are updating your resume, aren't you?


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Inaba on September 25, 2014, 11:15:10 PM
The only one that is morally, ethically and intellectually bankrupt here is you, Mr. Wasp, I mean Darin Bicknell.  How's your illegal school going?

The FTC shuts you down, yet you still come here to spout madness. How do you plan to hide your employer on your resume? You are updating your resume, aren't you?

Why would I do that?  I'm not the one making false statements  with nearly every post. I can quote almost any post you make and you can clearly see the false statements, over and over and over.  You are also the one that hides behind pseudoanonimity of your screen name, so that makes you doubly duplicitous.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: philipma1957 on September 25, 2014, 11:17:15 PM
The only one that is morally, ethically and intellectually bankrupt here is you, Mr. Wasp, I mean Darin Bicknell.  How's your illegal school going?

The FTC shuts you down, yet you still come here to spout madness. How do you plan to hide your employer on your resume? You are updating your resume, aren't you?

 hey take it easy on Josh.  He is only  ...


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: sbogovac on September 25, 2014, 11:17:50 PM
The only one that is morally, ethically and intellectually bankrupt here is you, Mr. Wasp, I mean Darin Bicknell.  How's your illegal school going?

WoW! Let's #ASKFTC what they think about that...  ::)

xstr8guy said it all, better listen to that free advice...


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Syke on September 25, 2014, 11:22:52 PM
WoW! Let's #ASKFTC what they think about that...  ::)

xstr8guy said it all, better listen to that free advice...

Someone should #ASKFTC if they're aware that BFL is sending bitcoins from their EMC subsidiary.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Inaba on September 25, 2014, 11:23:34 PM
The only one that is morally, ethically and intellectually bankrupt here is you, Mr. Wasp, I mean Darin Bicknell.  How's your illegal school going?

WoW! Let's #ASKFTC what they think about that...  ::)

xstr8guy said it all, better listen to that free advice...

Darin Bicknell is not a customer, so lets see the report to the FTC would boil down to this: "Someone is meaning mean to me on the internet!" Darin Bicknell is a morally, ethically and intellectually bankrupt individual who fled to Malasia to escape prosecution in his home Canada and now runs an "school" there, as I understand it.  He continues to attack me personally without evidence, facts or even logic... He continues to post false information and lies (though I do admit, he's not the only one.)  So please, do tell as to how me pointing that out is somehow antagonistic or even unexpected?


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: sbogovac on September 25, 2014, 11:27:40 PM
The only one that is morally, ethically and intellectually bankrupt here is you, Mr. Wasp, I mean Darin Bicknell.  How's your illegal school going?

WoW! Let's #ASKFTC what they think about that...  ::)

xstr8guy said it all, better listen to that free advice...

Darin Bicknell is not a customer, so lets see the report to the FTC would boil down to this: "Someone is meaning mean to me on the internet!" Darin Bicknell is a morally, ethically and intellectually bankrupt individual who fled to Malasia to escape prosecution in his home Canada and now runs an "school" there, as I understand it.  He continues to attack me personally without evidence, facts or even logic... He continues to post false information and lies (though I do admit, he's not the only one.)  So please, do tell as to how me pointing that out is somehow antagonistic or even unexpected?


Dude... Better call Saul!


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Unacceptable on September 26, 2014, 12:25:36 AM
The only one that is morally, ethically and intellectually bankrupt here is you, Mr. Wasp, I mean Darin Bicknell.  How's your illegal school going?

WoW! Let's #ASKFTC what they think about that...  ::)

xstr8guy said it all, better listen to that free advice...

Darin Bicknell is not a customer, so lets see the report to the FTC would boil down to this: "Someone is meaning mean to me on the internet!" Darin Bicknell is a morally, ethically and intellectually bankrupt individual who fled to Malasia to escape prosecution in his home Canada and now runs an "school" there, as I understand it.  He continues to attack me personally without evidence, facts or even logic... He continues to post false information and lies (though I do admit, he's not the only one.)  So please, do tell as to how me pointing that out is somehow antagonistic or even unexpected?


Dude... Better call Saul!


Or these guys!!!!!!   :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AJFleIrQ1Y


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Bicknellski on September 26, 2014, 10:01:34 AM
Evidence?

None.

What country? LOL! For someone that lived in Asia you still haven't looked at a Map of it I guess. LOL! Malasia? At least spell it right moron. One more reason Merika needs public Montessori schools.

Yet again with the lies and slander?

Let us just look at the facts here.

FTC shut down BFL. Pretty much every lie Josh told is listed on the complaint and they even used his own words to help describe many of the complaint points. It is really amazing how much he has helped the FTC already with this case. Leave more evidence all around please do more posting. It just proves the point the FTC has made the right call to go after your cash cow. It is over.

Good enough for me argument over.

I stand by this prediction.

The truth certainly will not change what Inaba says he is morally and ethically bankrupt Jimmothy. Soon he will be selling out Sonny V. for his own freedom. The end is coming for BFL and old Joshy better get his own lawyer before he gets thrown under the bus.

Josh will be selling out Sonny V. at some point especially when he realizes he won't be keeping much of anything he stole from his customers.

Note that when he met me Josh never had a harsh word to say, never said any slanderous things to my face... funny guess it is much easier to beg for a seat to be included with the likes of Spondoolies Tech, Rocxie and BitmainTech... not one of those fabricators even considered BFL a viable competitor. It was laughable to watch him talk among those 3 consummate professional leaders. The CONTRAST was plain for the audience in Hong Kong many cringed every time he even opened his mouth. The BFL booth was rarely visited and given to the fact that people in HK aren't going to be taken by the likes of Josh and BFL.

The conversation moved off from BFL in 2013 when they came up with that craptastic design for a graphic card form factor when everyone was moving to larger modular units.... they are not important anymore. They will never make another chip or miner again. That is what bothers Josh most. No one cares to listen to him anymore and haven't since 2013.

Without an audience Josh like BFL will wither and die.

BFL is not the voice of industry they never really were.
BFL is not an advocate for Bitcoin they are blight on it and have done a lot more to damage Bitcoin than help it grow.

When you get your spokesperson to attempt to spin the situation as big bad gov't going after our liberty and bitcoin and the industry you fail to recognize a few things. BFL is not part of the industry never were they were always a scam. They were never in Bitcoin to support the growth of  it there were there to denigrate this community.

Failure after failure... if it weren't that this had anything to do with Bitcoin BFL would have been shut down over a year ago.

http://wsau.com/podcasts/newsmaker-interviews/53/ftc-on-shutdown-of-fraudulent-bitcoin-equipment-company/


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Bicknellski on September 26, 2014, 10:44:24 AM
WoW! Let's #ASKFTC what they think about that...  ::)

xstr8guy said it all, better listen to that free advice...

Someone should #ASKFTC if they're aware that BFL is sending bitcoins from their EMC subsidiary.

Yes... EMC needs to SHUT DOWN ASAP.

Huge oversight there FTC.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: LDeneault on September 26, 2014, 11:00:23 AM
Why would I do that?  I'm not the one making false statements  with nearly every post.

The only false statements you make are when you're speaking officially on behalf of Butterfly Labs. 

The question I have, Josh, is this:  when you made one hopelessly untrue claim about delivery after another, did you know at the time that they were untrue or are you just hopelessly inept at your job.  As best as I can tell, "inept" is about your only legal defense going forward.

As an aside, the way you're continuing to ban people on the BFL forums goes against the very clear instructions that have been released by the Receiver.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Gleb Gamow on September 26, 2014, 01:33:54 PM
#ASKFTC

Here's one BWA that'll be used to refund those who purchased Monarchs from BFL: https://blockchain.info/address/1QAHVyRzkmD4j1pU5W89htZ3c6D6E7iWDs


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: k9quaint on September 26, 2014, 03:22:06 PM
The only one that is morally, ethically and intellectually bankrupt here is you, Mr. Wasp, I mean Darin Bicknell.  How's your illegal school going?

The FTC shuts you down, yet you still come here to spout madness. How do you plan to hide your employer on your resume? You are updating your resume, aren't you?

Why would I do that?  I'm not the one making false statements  with nearly every post. I can quote almost any post you make and you can clearly see the false statements, over and over and over.  You are also the one that hides behind pseudoanonimity of your screen name, so that makes you doubly duplicitous.


Josh, the law finally caught up to you and you come here to post.
As a result, we found out that you are not retarded, you are a pathological liar.

Enjoy laying awake at night (in that house bought with embezzled bitcoins) thinking about the fact that we live in a nation with the second amendment. There might be one wingnut among all those people you and your buddies stole from, that wingnut knows where you live.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: ComaWombat on September 26, 2014, 04:45:40 PM
No wonder they were shut down when their VP is incapable of NOT acting like a five year old butthurt toddler in public. Same goes to Bcp.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: BitcoinRuinedMyLife on September 26, 2014, 05:25:24 PM
No wonder they were shut down when their VP is incapable of NOT acting like a five year old butthurt toddler in public. Same goes to Bcp.

I know right... lol

You could put a million dollars in this guys pocket and he still wouldn't be worth a million.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Inaba on September 26, 2014, 05:28:13 PM
Ya'll just go on believing your fantasies. Heh.  It's a shame you won't admit when you're wrong and you'll just continue to move your conspiracy goal posts as each one is knocked down and moved past.  This is why you are jokes and I don't take your seriously.  You have done this all along, you continue to do it now, and you will continue to do it going forward, of this I have no doubt.




Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: BitcoinRuinedMyLife on September 26, 2014, 05:44:17 PM
Ya'll just go on believing your fantasies. Heh.  It's a shame you won't admit when you're wrong and you'll just continue to move your conspiracy goal posts as each one is knocked down and moved past.  This is why you are jokes and I don't take your seriously.  You have done this all along, you continue to do it now, and you will continue to do it going forward, of this I have no doubt.




Have you ever took the time to look in the mirror? You are truly a delusional piece of work, you don't have to see the scumbag that you are because the rest of the public who you have presented yourself to will do it for you!



Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Syke on September 26, 2014, 05:45:48 PM
Quote from: Inaba
This one seems particularly persistent. I will see what I can do.

Still trying to dismiss the FTC shutdown as simply a "persistent rumor"?


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: sbogovac on September 26, 2014, 06:25:18 PM
[...]

You still don't get it, right? Don't worry, with questions just mail eljreceiver@spencerfane.com or call 816-292-8316 and #ASKFTC


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: BitcoinPappi on September 26, 2014, 06:25:42 PM
Ya'll just go on believing your fantasies. Heh.  It's a shame you won't admit when you're wrong and you'll just continue to move your conspiracy goal posts as each one is knocked down and moved past.  This is why you are jokes and I don't take your seriously.  You have done this all along, you continue to do it now, and you will continue to do it going forward, of this I have no doubt.




Have you no shame ? I do not understand the reason for you to continue behaving like an asshole. You should probably see a psychologist, because you are either retarded or a sociopath(well this is more or less confirmed )


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: opieum2 on September 26, 2014, 06:39:57 PM
Ya'll just go on believing your fantasies. Heh.  It's a shame you won't admit when you're wrong and you'll just continue to move your conspiracy goal posts as each one is knocked down and moved past.  This is why you are jokes and I don't take your seriously.  You have done this all along, you continue to do it now, and you will continue to do it going forward, of this I have no doubt.

Words that can only be penned by a sociopath with no conscience or remorse over his actions. The fact he looks down on us as a joke (the irony being that it was the activism on here that had the FTC take action), just demonstrates the hubris he has. Of course the community will continue to go at you. Until you no longer scam people...(I take it the judge that alluded to you and your associates running a scam was also a joke?) will continue to come at you until you are gone as a company or in prison. One or both look likely now. I hope you end up someones prison bitch.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Gleb Gamow on September 26, 2014, 06:41:00 PM
Ya'll just go on believing your fantasies. Heh.  It's a shame you won't admit when you're wrong and you'll just continue to move your conspiracy goal posts as each one is knocked down and moved past.  This is why you are jokes and I don't take your seriously.  You have done this all along, you continue to do it now, and you will continue to do it going forward, of this I have no doubt.



The prosecutor could only hope that the FTC has retained Josh to turn witness against BFL, et al. He'll have a field day requesting nothing short of a jury trail, calling Josh Zerlan to the stand first... make that last, so that he's replies WILL stand out in the jurors' minds as he proceeds to show how Josh's lies and has delusions of grandeur, thus destroying the image of trying to paint BFL, et al., in a Vleisides' photographic light.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Askit2 on September 26, 2014, 10:17:20 PM
Ya'll just go on believing your fantasies. Heh.  It's a shame you won't admit when you're wrong and you'll just continue to move your conspiracy goal posts as each one is knocked down and moved past.  This is why you are jokes and I don't take your seriously.  You have done this all along, you continue to do it now, and you will continue to do it going forward, of this I have no doubt.

I quit being a customer because of a badly mishandled order for 8 jalapeno's. I even asked for help from you.  Before I got glitched and ignored I actually supported BFL. I was giving you guys the benefit of the doubt. I judged no one could be that incompetent. During that debacle I realized that it didn't seem to be incompetence. It was a systematic problem. I stopped buying from BFL. I stopped supporting BFL. Given that the Monarchs overly complicated die shrink has gone so smashingly I suppose the whole crew at BFL really stepped up and gave me a present. The present of not betting on the last horse. The present of not waiting a year while the potential profits evaporate.

See the problem started with a blog post stating that my units should be done. I didn't know that 2 weeks before my order should have switched from pending. I know what a stupid customer to not know when things change and to what they should change on an ordering system that changes with each new product. Granted the tracking email never showed up either way I don't remember one ever showing up from BFL. Then the product never showed up. Why would it? The blog post that kept everyone in the loop as to what was done and shipped had already for nearly free told the world my product was shipped. When I emailed it was 3 days before I got a reply. I did contact a guy by phone that assured me I was not only being unreasonable asking for expedited shipping but I was very lucky that BFL was paying to ship them out at all. My units should have been in my possession about 3 days before I was on the phone. I didn't call before they should have shipped. I should have but I didn't know your system. After 2 weeks of arguing with people if someone would reply by email or answer the phone I did finally receive my package. Had it arrived when it should have I would have made enough dollar wise to pay for it before difficulty adjusted. When it arrived not so much. My order wasn't expedited in any way. I was put at the back of the queue and made to wait while more orders for hardware shipped. My order that pre-dated theirs was getting farther back by the day and when I did get to ask about my order I either got and it will get done when it gets done answer or we don't know when it will be ready answer.

The whole situation proved to me that BFL was only interested in getting paid for units. It also showed me that when BFL had a problem I would be the one with the problem. See the glitch wasn't my fault. It was BFL's fault. Someone didn't make sure all the products went to the manufacturing machine correctly. No one checked to make sure all the days orders had actually been produced before the news made the blog. By that I don't intend to convey that they production machine says they are all done I mean a DB pull for the actual orders and check them against production. I can't believe I stood up for BFL. In hindsight I feel bad that I ever thought the delays had been caused by anything but either incompetence or a corporate culture designed to delay product shipment.

I'm glad you showed up on BCT. I wish you visited your pool page. I wish even more that there had been announcements about EMC being converted to BFL's personal pool.

I'm sure a mod can bury this post too but I hope they don't.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: kfactor on September 26, 2014, 10:48:16 PM
Ya'll just go on believing your fantasies. Heh.  It's a shame you won't admit when you're wrong and you'll just continue to move your conspiracy goal posts as each one is knocked down and moved past.  This is why you are jokes and I don't take your seriously.  You have done this all along, you continue to do it now, and you will continue to do it going forward, of this I have no doubt.


Given the current state of affairs, you really should STFU and call a lawyer now.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: JoshsAssIsFucked on September 27, 2014, 09:31:26 AM
Ya'll just go on believing your fantasies. Heh.  It's a shame you won't admit when you're wrong and you'll just continue to move your conspiracy goal posts as each one is knocked down and moved past.  This is why you are jokes and I don't take your seriously.  You have done this all along, you continue to do it now, and you will continue to do it going forward, of this I have no doubt.




As i said 3 YEARS AGO! Filthy Dirty Un-empathetic Cockroach! I was thinking you'd get away from this but you are just digging your own grave now! I almost feel sorry for you, but you deserve EVERYTHING thats coming to you, And i don't mean just the FTC and co!

What a absolute joke for a human being you are!

FUCK YOU!


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: opieum2 on September 27, 2014, 05:54:01 PM
Ya'll just go on believing your fantasies. Heh.  It's a shame you won't admit when you're wrong and you'll just continue to move your conspiracy goal posts as each one is knocked down and moved past.  This is why you are jokes and I don't take your seriously.  You have done this all along, you continue to do it now, and you will continue to do it going forward, of this I have no doubt.




As i said 3 YEARS AGO! Filthy Dirty Un-empathetic Cockroach! I was thinking you'd get away from this but you are just digging your own grave now! I almost feel sorry for you, but you deserve EVERYTHING thats coming to you, And i don't mean just the FTC and co!

What a absolute joke for a human being you are!

FUCK YOU!

He is a sociopath, nothing we say will matter to him. But he will feel the pain in his ass when he is in prison.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Syke on September 27, 2014, 06:14:43 PM
He is a sociopath, nothing we say will matter to him.

Actually, he gets off hurting people. So when people cry on the forums he jizzes.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: dropt on September 27, 2014, 07:34:58 PM
He is a sociopath, nothing we say will matter to him.

Actually, he gets off hurting people. So when people cry on the forums he jizzes.

What I find entertaining is the hissy fit JZ throws when the actions BFL took against its customers are taken against him.  Someone should dig up his Mt. Gox rants when he didn't get his money right away so we can all laugh.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Flying Hellfish on September 27, 2014, 08:23:22 PM
Ya'll just go on believing your fantasies. Heh.  It's a shame you won't admit when you're wrong and you'll just continue to move your conspiracy goal posts as each one is knocked down and moved past.  This is why you are jokes and I don't take your seriously.  You have done this all along, you continue to do it now, and you will continue to do it going forward, of this I have no doubt.

Hi stupid, scamming, lying cunt, you may not be able to suck Sonny's cock as often once they throw his stupid, scamming, lying, cunt ass in jail.  Also he may need to suck some one else's cock or take it up the asshole from another person while he's inside.  This should not be considered cheating on you because he will be doing it to survive, I'm sure he still loves the way you suck him long time like the good little cocksucker you are!

If you miss having a little white dick in your mouth too much, perhaps your little retarded lap dog BCP19 can step up and fill the void left in your stupid, scamming, lying, cunt face.

Eat a bag of dicks you monumental, scamming, lying, stupid, cock sucking, cunt asshole!  Hope you wear you're big boy pants, shit is going to start piling up cock breath!


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Unacceptable on September 27, 2014, 08:25:16 PM
Ya'll just go on believing your fantasies. Heh.  It's a shame you won't admit when you're wrong and you'll just continue to move your conspiracy goal posts as each one is knocked down and moved past.  This is why you are jokes and I don't take your seriously.  You have done this all along, you continue to do it now, and you will continue to do it going forward, of this I have no doubt.

Hi stupid, scamming, lying cunt, you may not be able to suck Sonny's cock as often once they throw his stupid, scamming, lying, cunt ass in jail.  Also he may need to suck some one else's cock or take it up the asshole from another person while he's inside.  This should not be considered cheating on you because he will be doing it to survive, I'm sure he still loves the way you suck him long time like the good little cocksucker you are!

If you miss having a little white dick in your mouth too much, perhaps your little retarded lap dog BCP19 can step up and fill the void left in your stupid, scamming, lying, cunt face.

Eat a bag of dicks you monumental, scamming, lying, stupid, cock sucking, cunt asshole!  Hope you were you're big boy pants, shit is going to start piling up cock breath!

Wow  :o  Tell him how REALLY feel!!!!!!!!!!!!  :D :D


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Gleb Gamow on September 27, 2014, 10:40:02 PM
Ya'll just go on believing your fantasies. Heh.  It's a shame you won't admit when you're wrong and you'll just continue to move your conspiracy goal posts as each one is knocked down and moved past.  This is why you are jokes and I don't take your seriously.  You have done this all along, you continue to do it now, and you will continue to do it going forward, of this I have no doubt.

Hi stupid, scamming, lying cunt, you may not be able to suck Sonny's cock as often once they throw his stupid, scamming, lying, cunt ass in jail.  Also he may need to suck some one else's cock or take it up the asshole from another person while he's inside.  This should not be considered cheating on you because he will be doing it to survive, I'm sure he still loves the way you suck him long time like the good little cocksucker you are!

If you miss having a little white dick in your mouth too much, perhaps your little retarded lap dog BCP19 can step up and fill the void left in your stupid, scamming, lying, cunt face.

Eat a bag of dicks you monumental, scamming, lying, stupid, cock sucking, cunt asshole!  Hope you were you're big boy pants, shit is going to start piling up cock breath!

Wow  :o  Tell him how REALLY feel!!!!!!!!!!!!  :D :D

Me, too! I wanna quote some of that. Anybody else wanna quote me quoting Un. quoting the vitriol diatribe so that you, too, can be quoted? Surely, you don't want a excellent quote to go waste. Simply quote me, instructing others to quote you. It'll be epic!


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: xstr8guy on September 27, 2014, 11:22:59 PM
He is a sociopath, nothing we say will matter to him.

Actually, he gets off hurting people. So when people cry on the forums he jizzes.

Wouldn't that make him a psychopath then not just a sociopath?  :D


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Syke on September 28, 2014, 12:06:58 AM
Wouldn't that make him a psychopath then not just a sociopath?  :D

Yeah, psychopath is a more appropriate term.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: k9quaint on September 28, 2014, 04:30:13 AM
Wouldn't that make him a psychopath then not just a sociopath?  :D
Yeah, psychopath is a more appropriate term.

Sociopathy and Psychopathy are very closely related, and sometimes used interchangeably.

Wikipedia highlights below.

"Psychopathy (/saɪˈkɒpəθi/) (or sociopathy /ˈsoʊsiəˌpæθi/) is traditionally defined as a personality disorder characterized by enduring antisocial behavior, diminished empathy and remorse, and disinhibited or bold behavior.
...
It is one of the three dark triadic personality traits (the others being narcissism and Machiavellianism)."
...
the Federal Bureau of Investigation reports that psychopathic behavior is consistent with traits common to some serial killers, including sensation seeking, a lack of remorse or guilt, impulsivity, the need for control, and predatory behavior.[22] Researchers, however, have noted that psychopathy is dissociable from and not synonymous with violence.[1]
...
Researchers have discussed the possibility of psychopathy being associated with organised crime, economic crime and war crimes.[35] Terrorists are sometimes called psychopaths, and comparisons may be drawn with traits such as antisocial violence, a selfish world view that precludes the welfare of others, a lack of remorse or guilt, and blame externalization.
...
<See 'Conduct Disorder' ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conduct_disorder )>
...
Psychopaths have been considered notoriously amoral – an absence of, indifference towards, or disregard for moral beliefs. There are few firm data on patterns of moral judgment, however. Studies of developmental level (sophistication) of moral reasoning found all possible results – lower, higher or the same as non-psychopaths. Studies that compared judgments of personal moral transgressions versus judgments of breaking conventional rules or laws, found that psychopaths rated them as equally severe, whereas non-psychopaths rated the rule-breaking as less severe.
...
Psychopathy has often been considered untreatable. Harris and Rice's Handbook of Psychopathy says that there is little evidence of a cure or effective treatment for psychopathy; no medications can instill empathy, and psychopaths who undergo traditional talk therapy might become more adept at manipulating others and more likely to commit crime.
...
Psychopathy in the workplace is a serious issue as, although psychopaths typically represent only a small percentage of the staff, they are most common at higher levels of corporate organizations and their detrimental effects (for example, increased bullying, conflict, stress, staff turnover, absenteeism, reduction in productivity) often causes a ripple effect throughout an organization, setting the tone for an entire corporate culture.[129]

Academics refer to psychopaths in the workplace individually variously as workplace psychopaths, executive psychopaths, corporate psychopaths, business psychopaths, successful psychopaths, office psychopaths, white collar psychopaths, industrial psychopaths, organizational psychopaths or occupational psychopaths.

Hare reports that about 1 per cent of the general population meets the clinical criteria for psychopathy.[130] Hare further claims that the prevalence of corporate psychopaths is higher in the business world than in the general population. Figures of around 3-4% have been cited for more senior positions in business.[131] Unfortunately, even with this small percentage, corporate psychopaths can do enormous damage when they are positioned in senior management roles.[132]

"

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy

Lock him away. He's irredeemable to society at large and should be permanently removed from the general population via incarceration.

I would prefer to hand Josh & Sonny over the Reavers and let them try to talk their way out of that situation.  ;D

Quote
"If [Reavers] take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skins into their clothing – and if we're very, very lucky, they'll do it in that order." -Zoe, Firefly


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Bicknellski on September 28, 2014, 04:59:55 AM
Wouldn't that make him a psychopath then not just a sociopath?  :D
Yeah, psychopath is a more appropriate term.

Sociopathy and Psychopathy are very closely related, and sometimes used interchangeably.

Wikipedia highlights below.

"Psychopathy (/saɪˈkɒpəθi/) (or sociopathy /ˈsoʊsiəˌpæθi/) is traditionally defined as a personality disorder characterized by enduring antisocial behavior, diminished empathy and remorse, and disinhibited or bold behavior.
...
It is one of the three dark triadic personality traits (the others being narcissism and Machiavellianism)."
...
the Federal Bureau of Investigation reports that psychopathic behavior is consistent with traits common to some serial killers, including sensation seeking, a lack of remorse or guilt, impulsivity, the need for control, and predatory behavior.[22] Researchers, however, have noted that psychopathy is dissociable from and not synonymous with violence.[1]
...
Researchers have discussed the possibility of psychopathy being associated with organised crime, economic crime and war crimes.[35] Terrorists are sometimes called psychopaths, and comparisons may be drawn with traits such as antisocial violence, a selfish world view that precludes the welfare of others, a lack of remorse or guilt, and blame externalization.
...
<See 'Conduct Disorder' ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conduct_disorder )>
...
Psychopaths have been considered notoriously amoral – an absence of, indifference towards, or disregard for moral beliefs. There are few firm data on patterns of moral judgment, however. Studies of developmental level (sophistication) of moral reasoning found all possible results – lower, higher or the same as non-psychopaths. Studies that compared judgments of personal moral transgressions versus judgments of breaking conventional rules or laws, found that psychopaths rated them as equally severe, whereas non-psychopaths rated the rule-breaking as less severe.
...
Psychopathy has often been considered untreatable. Harris and Rice's Handbook of Psychopathy says that there is little evidence of a cure or effective treatment for psychopathy; no medications can instill empathy, and psychopaths who undergo traditional talk therapy might become more adept at manipulating others and more likely to commit crime.
...
Psychopathy in the workplace is a serious issue as, although psychopaths typically represent only a small percentage of the staff, they are most common at higher levels of corporate organizations and their detrimental effects (for example, increased bullying, conflict, stress, staff turnover, absenteeism, reduction in productivity) often causes a ripple effect throughout an organization, setting the tone for an entire corporate culture.[129]

Academics refer to psychopaths in the workplace individually variously as workplace psychopaths, executive psychopaths, corporate psychopaths, business psychopaths, successful psychopaths, office psychopaths, white collar psychopaths, industrial psychopaths, organizational psychopaths or occupational psychopaths.

Hare reports that about 1 per cent of the general population meets the clinical criteria for psychopathy.[130] Hare further claims that the prevalence of corporate psychopaths is higher in the business world than in the general population. Figures of around 3-4% have been cited for more senior positions in business.[131] Unfortunately, even with this small percentage, corporate psychopaths can do enormous damage when they are positioned in senior management roles.[132]

"

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy

Lock him away. He's irredeemable to society at large and should be permanently removed from the general population via incarceration.

I would prefer to hand Josh & Sonny over the Reavers and let them try to talk their way out of that situation.  ;D

Quote
"If [Reavers] take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skins into their clothing – and if we're very, very lucky, they'll do it in that order." -Zoe, Firefly


And... we come full circle... another Josh into the mix.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: k9quaint on September 28, 2014, 06:14:55 AM
[I would prefer to hand Josh & Sonny over the Reavers and let them try to talk their way out of that situation.  ;D

Quote
"If [Reavers] take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skins into their clothing – and if we're very, very lucky, they'll do it in that order." -Zoe, Firefly


And... we come full circle... another Josh into the mix.

Eh?


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Bicknellski on September 28, 2014, 06:28:17 AM
Josh W. wrote Firefly right?


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Bicknellski on September 28, 2014, 06:30:17 AM
 ;D

Josh W. wrote Firefly right?

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0923736/

Basic googling makes you not look like an idiot.

Joss Whedon.

Close enough.

I am more of a Farscape fan.

Created by Rocky Y. O'Bannock right? <<sarcasm>>



Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: vapourminer on September 28, 2014, 03:32:39 PM
I would prefer to hand Josh & Sonny over the Reavers and let them try to talk their way out of that situation.  ;D
Quote
"If [Reavers] take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skins into their clothing – and if we're very, very lucky, they'll do it in that order." -Zoe, Firefly

(Firefly fan here) pretty harsh, even for Josh.. he didnt scam little old ladies (unless they were a byproduct).

Sonny OTOH..

OTGH (on the gripping hand) they are slick talkers with zero ethics.. maybe they would make it out OK with management position in the Reaper hierarchy.

[on topic] BFL refused my refund on a 65 nm little single. shipped it 5 months late when it was basically useless. I forwarded that to the FTC.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: joeventura on September 28, 2014, 04:57:35 PM
Ya'll just go on believing your fantasies. Heh.  It's a shame you won't admit when you're wrong and you'll just continue to move your conspiracy goal posts as each one is knocked down and moved past.  This is why you are jokes and I don't take your seriously.  You have done this all along, you continue to do it now, and you will continue to do it going forward, of this I have no doubt.


Put your big boy pants on and let's chat in 36 hours. Then we will see what you take seriously.

By that time the judge will have signed the papers putting BFL into permanent receivership and starting the slow methodical process of dismantling all of it, dollar by dollar, BTC by BTC. An entire community of people standing ready to show them every dollar that was moved and where it currently resides.

The liquidation auctions, the refunds, the bank accounts being sucked dry for every dollar. Refunding people who bought 65nm gear! It's going to drive you absolutely ape shit isn't it? To watch everything that you screwed people so hard to get being taken back.

Then the fun part, the forensic accounting, closing the EMC pool, auctioning your house. Oh yes the house has to go because you were wrongfully enriched Joshie poo. The first house bought by bitcoin and the first one auctioned.

We are all going to be watching, applauding and ultimately it will not be a last laugh, it will be hundreds, thousands of laughs, all at your expense.

Hope you hid enough to retire, because no more work for you that does not end with "Would you like fries with that?"








Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: sbogovac on September 28, 2014, 05:46:22 PM
[...]Hope you hid enough to retire[...]

Why would you hope that Charles?


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: joeventura on September 28, 2014, 07:25:47 PM
[...]Hope you hid enough to retire[...]

Why would you hope that Charles?


You sir have a good point!!



Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: sbogovac on September 28, 2014, 07:32:56 PM
[...]Hope you hid enough to retire[...]
Why would you hope that Charles?
You sir have a good point!!

Regarding idle hopes or your name, sir?  ;)


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: joeventura on September 28, 2014, 08:10:10 PM
[...]Hope you hid enough to retire[...]
Why would you hope that Charles?
You sir have a good point!!

Regarding idle hopes or your name, sir?  ;)

Idle hopes.

Avatar represents an old friend of the family


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: sbogovac on September 28, 2014, 08:25:48 PM
[...]Hope you hid enough to retire[...]
Why would you hope that Charles?
You sir have a good point!!
Regarding idle hopes or your name, sir?  ;)
Idle hopes.

Avatar represents an old friend of the family

Then: to idle hopes, friends & family (we drink)!!!

PS no chance those connections could help solve this issue in a bit more speedy and gentlemanly fashion...?  ;)


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: joeventura on September 28, 2014, 11:21:21 PM
[...]Hope you hid enough to retire[...]
Why would you hope that Charles?
You sir have a good point!!
Regarding idle hopes or your name, sir?  ;)
Idle hopes.

Avatar represents an old friend of the family

Then: to idle hopes, friends & family (we drink)!!!

PS no chance those connections could help solve this issue in a bit more speedy and gentlemanly fashion...?  ;)

Hahaha no, would never leverage those connections on something that will ultimately be addressed by the feds.

If someone gets off scott free and gets cocky then perhaps.



Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Gleb Gamow on September 29, 2014, 12:47:20 AM
[...]Hope you hid enough to retire[...]
Why would you hope that Charles?
You sir have a good point!!

Regarding idle hopes or your name, sir?  ;)

Idle hopes.

Avatar represents an old friend of the family


Don't ask how, but your post here reminded me of this dude - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=41159 - who hasn't posted on BCT going on almost two years now. I miss this dude!


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Syke on September 29, 2014, 01:25:01 AM
Don't ask how, but your post here reminded me of this dude - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=41159 - who hasn't posted on BCT going on almost two years now. I miss this dude!

Ah, good ole Loup. Still advertising bASIC in his sig.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Gleb Gamow on September 29, 2014, 01:28:11 AM
Don't ask how, but your post here reminded me of this dude - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=41159 - who hasn't posted on BCT going on almost two years now. I miss this dude!

Ah, good ole Loup. Still advertising bASIC in his sig.

I didn't even catch that! I mentally block out most ads and sigs, hence payin' it no mind. That dude sure the hell had a way with the English language, something I truly admired about him.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: k9quaint on September 29, 2014, 03:44:59 AM
I think BFL is going to have a new experience...

http://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/140923utterflylabstro.pdf

That is one hell of a seizure order. Everything and the kitchen sink.

I feel sure that Sonny et al will try to hide some of their ill gotten gains and get slapped with contempt rulings.  ;D


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: sbogovac on September 29, 2014, 07:39:08 AM
[...]Hope you hid enough to retire[...]
Why would you hope that Charles?
You sir have a good point!!
Regarding idle hopes or your name, sir?  ;)
Idle hopes. [...] Avatar represents an old friend of the family
Then: to idle hopes, friends & family (we drink)!!! [...]PS no chance those connections could help solve this issue in a bit more speedy and gentlemanly fashion...?  ;)

Hahaha no, would never leverage those connections on something that will ultimately be addressed by the feds.

If someone gets off scott free and gets cocky then perhaps.

Although some might argue there is little difference between the two, I certainly understand that sir...

But it doesn't seem there's even "need" for it, as there is no honor amongst thieves... Because it might seem someone is getting of "scott free", but he has been set up for a life of hiding and looking over his shoulder. This - presumably, I haven't found the source doc yet - can be read in the FTC documentation:

[...]"Former employees and Mr. Zerlan, admitted that Defendants mined Bitcoins with customer equipment."


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: sbogovac on September 29, 2014, 01:18:49 PM
[...] there is no honor amongst thieves... Because it might seem someone is getting of "scott free", but he has been set up for a life of hiding and looking over his shoulder. This - presumably, I haven't found the source doc yet - can be read in the FTC documentation:

[...]"Former employees and Mr. Zerlan, admitted that Defendants mined Bitcoins with customer equipment."


And here are thew sources:

Hello everyone I figure you might all be interested in reading Josh Zerlan's deposition.

This is on a freely available sight that archives acced court records.
PT 1. http://ia902308.us.archive.org/32/items/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531.42.20.pdf
PT 2. http://ia902308.us.archive.org/32/items/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531.42.19.pdf

And here is the FTC's rational for the court to order a preliminary injunction.
http://ia902308.us.archive.org/32/items/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531.42.0.pdf

and here is some additional info:
http://ia902308.us.archive.org/32/items/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531.42.1.pdf report of an FTC investigator
http://ia902308.us.archive.org/32/items/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531.42.2.pdf
http://ia902308.us.archive.org/32/items/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531.42.4.pdf pictures of them mining with your machines

This one includes a chat with the principals:
http://ia902308.us.archive.org/32/items/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531.42.7.pdf

You're not going to believe it, but Josh was the White Knight in all of this. He constantly champions honesty and divulging a proper timeline to customers. He was the one guy with some intelligence on how things should be run but no one wanted to listen to him. He's getting a bad rap and I know some of it is on him but see if the chats don't at least change you mind about some things.


I don't see anyway that BFL gets control back of the company after reading that chat. NAIL IN THE COFFIN.


Thanks! Ubercool,

but if I look at the dates I don't come to the conclusion of "Josh [being] the White Knight in all of this".

I see someone who's "selling out" and "leaving the sinking ship"...

That sounds more like the Josh we have all got to know these last couple of years...


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: joeventura on September 29, 2014, 07:45:34 PM
Ya'll just go on believing your fantasies. Heh.  It's a shame you won't admit when you're wrong and you'll just continue to move your conspiracy goal posts as each one is knocked down and moved past.  This is why you are jokes and I don't take your seriously.  You have done this all along, you continue to do it now, and you will continue to do it going forward, of this I have no doubt.


Put your big boy pants on and let's chat in 36 hours. Then we will see what you take seriously.

By that time the judge will have signed the papers putting BFL into permanent receivership and starting the slow methodical process of dismantling all of it, dollar by dollar, BTC by BTC. An entire community of people standing ready to show them every dollar that was moved and where it currently resides.

The liquidation auctions, the refunds, the bank accounts being sucked dry for every dollar. Refunding people who bought 65nm gear! It's going to drive you absolutely ape shit isn't it? To watch everything that you screwed people so hard to get being taken back.

Then the fun part, the forensic accounting, closing the EMC pool, auctioning your house. Oh yes the house has to go because you were wrongfully enriched Joshie poo. The first house bought by bitcoin and the first one auctioned.

We are all going to be watching, applauding and ultimately it will not be a last laugh, it will be hundreds, thousands of laughs, all at your expense.

Hope you hid enough to retire, because no more work for you that does not end with "Would you like fries with that?"






And here we are 36 hours later, the curtain having fallen and BFL surely has to now be out of business.

The Skype chat logs exposed, all the intentional lies, premeditated deceptions, all out in the bright light.

In my opinion having just read the court filing everyone at Butterfly labs who was in management was a criminal who knew exactly what they were doing and now caught will be forced to pay restitution, lose their houses, cars and way of life.

How many BFL employees does it take to flip over and put the rest of them in jail? Just one!



Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: opieum2 on September 29, 2014, 09:36:11 PM
It is promising to see the chat logs and other things are being used against them. This is promising because of other cases that are dealing with similar antics. :D


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: sbogovac on September 29, 2014, 10:02:57 PM
[...] here we are 36 hours later, the curtain having fallen and BFL surely has to now be out of business.[...]

Unfortunately, just as it seems the alphabet agencies seem to have grasped what BTC is about there are still enough judges around who do not seem to understand (or are just "following procedure" for procedure's sake):

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2014/09/29/federal-magistrate-will-mediate-butterfly-labs-ftc.html?page=all

"Both parties were in court Monday morning as the FTC sought an injunction that would effectively extend that restraining order. A lawyer for the FTC said it was important to conserve the company’s assets to allow for future consumer redress.

However, U.S. District Court Judge Brian Wimes, who is presiding over the case, asked both sides whether a plan might be reached that would allow Butterfly Labs to resume business but still protect consumers.

He extended the restraining order until Friday to give the sides time to reach a deal, before adjourning to allow both parties to negotiate. By noon, he had appointed U.S. Magistrate John Maughmer to mediate the discussions, which were ongoing.
"


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: opieum2 on September 29, 2014, 10:08:01 PM
[...] here we are 36 hours later, the curtain having fallen and BFL surely has to now be out of business.[...]

Unfortunately, just as it seems the alphabet agencies seem to have grasped what BTC is about there are still enough judges around who do not seem to understand (or are just "following procedure" for procedure's sake):

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2014/09/29/federal-magistrate-will-mediate-butterfly-labs-ftc.html?page=all

"Both parties were in court Monday morning as the FTC sought an injunction that would effectively extend that restraining order. A lawyer for the FTC said it was important to conserve the company’s assets to allow for future consumer redress.

However, U.S. District Court Judge Brian Wimes, who is presiding over the case, asked both sides whether a plan might be reached that would allow Butterfly Labs to resume business but still protect consumers.

He extended the restraining order until Friday to give the sides time to reach a deal, before adjourning to allow both parties to negotiate. By noon, he had appointed U.S. Magistrate John Maughmer to mediate the discussions, which were ongoing.
"

That is just normal. They have to say what they have to say. Its part of the legal process. If they skip it then BFL can say they did not get due process and all that.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Viceroy on September 29, 2014, 11:30:06 PM
"blah blah blah"

OMG, I can't believe you are still posting here.  Enjoy your last days of freedom....

[...]

You still don't get it, right? Don't worry, with questions just mail eljreceiver@spencerfane.com or call 816-292-8316 and #ASKFTC


^that!


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: Loredo on September 30, 2014, 01:45:34 AM
That is just normal. They have to say what they have to say. Its part of the legal process. If they skip it then BFL can say they did not get due process and all that.
Exactly right.  In truth, none of us would want a legal system where a judge could permanently destroy a private business in a hearing, even if presented with an apparently incontestable preponderance of evidence.  And, from the outside at least, it doesn't look like FTC had that today in any event.


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: JoshsAssIsFucked on September 30, 2014, 07:13:03 AM
That is just normal. They have to say what they have to say. Its part of the legal process. If they skip it then BFL can say they did not get due process and all that.
Exactly right.  In truth, none of us would want a legal system where a judge could permanently destroy a private business in a hearing, even if presented with an apparently incontestable preponderance of evidence.  And, from the outside at least, it doesn't look like FTC had that today in any event.

Someone's been watching too many movies, no ones going get anything from this except the profitable business's of the police, courts, solicitors and lawyers. They are the only winners in this 'illusion' of a justice system. But you keep believing its all for the bennifit of us. As josh said, if you have dealt with any part of the system before you would know its all bs! Don't mistake his hubris for lack of intelligence which a lot of people do. He's just a unempathetic cockroach! Not thick. Good people don't see what its like so believe its there for their protection ha ha. Its all o e big lie, even the periodic table is a lie if you look up platonic solids. The illusion is immense!

As for joshy boy, he will slip away like the slime ball he is


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: sbogovac on September 30, 2014, 07:26:38 AM
That is just normal. They have to say what they have to say. Its part of the legal process. If they skip it then BFL can say they did not get due process and all that.
Exactly right.  In truth, none of us would want a legal system where a judge could permanently destroy a private business in a hearing, even if presented with an apparently incontestable preponderance of evidence.  And, from the outside at least, it doesn't look like FTC had that today in any event.
Someone's been watching too many movies, no ones going get anything from this except the profitable business's of the police, courts, solicitors and lawyers.[...]

I disagree with that. At least:
- BFL is stopped;
- Sonny V. goes back to jail (for his parole violation);
- some gains will be confiscated (saving us all a lot of taxes); and,
- we all have a great laugh at the expense of this "unempathetic" bunch...

PS further more, I find your tone (watching movies, illusions et cetera) demeaning and bordering with trolling...


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: JoshsAssIsFucked on September 30, 2014, 07:43:14 AM
That is just normal. They have to say what they have to say. Its part of the legal process. If they skip it then BFL can say they did not get due process and all that.
Exactly right.  In truth, none of us would want a legal system where a judge could permanently destroy a private business in a hearing, even if presented with an apparently incontestable preponderance of evidence.  And, from the outside at least, it doesn't look like FTC had that today in any event.
Someone's been watching too many movies, no ones going get anything from this except the profitable business's of the police, courts, solicitors and lawyers.[...]

I disagree with that. At least:
- BFL is stopped;
- Sonny V. goes back to jail (for his parole violation);
- some gains will be confiscated (saving us all a lot of taxes); and,
- we all have a great laugh at the expense of this "unempathetic" bunch...

PS further more, I find your tone (watching movies, illusions et cetera) demeaning and bordering with trolling...

If you have a problem, who's problem is it? I'll let you work that out for yourself!

I completely agree with what you say. I been following this since I met josh in 2012 In London and knew within minutes my investment was gone, months before delivery! I been around enough to see right through scum like him. And he knows it too. He does his best to keep people who know what he is on side as he did with pg, and he got burned by him!

And because I've spent the time finding the true history (I actually had about 10 police officers last night all listening to me about them being used and how they are going to be fucked over last night, even they know something's not right to the point of taking notes from a seemingly piss head) and a want and will to seek it out you want to call me a troll. Truth is stranger than fiction. Look up the khazararian's, that's a good starting point for you. And how the roman empires postal service became the spy network (Germany much???) And the benzitines took the idea of religion and state further than the romans did. 1000s of years of manipulation as made people zombified pieces of flesh and blood with no guts. Weak and perfetic.

Listen dude, I'm in the same boat! But even in a minority of 1, truth is still the truth! I just never let schooling get in the way of my education!

Peace bro, no offense ever intended and I can't teach, you can only teach yourself (Henze schooling is just programming!)


Title: Re: BFL Experience
Post by: sbogovac on September 30, 2014, 07:48:04 AM
That is just normal. They have to say what they have to say. Its part of the legal process. If they skip it then BFL can say they did not get due process and all that.
Exactly right.  In truth, none of us would want a legal system where a judge could permanently destroy a private business in a hearing, even if presented with an apparently incontestable preponderance of evidence.  And, from the outside at least, it doesn't look like FTC had that today in any event.
Someone's been watching too many movies, no ones going get anything from this except the profitable business's of the police, courts, solicitors and lawyers.[...]

I disagree with that. At least:
- BFL is stopped;
- Sonny V. goes back to jail (for his parole violation);
- some gains will be confiscated (saving us all a lot of taxes); and,
- we all have a great laugh at the expense of this "unempathetic" bunch...

PS further more, I find your tone (watching movies, illusions et cetera) demeaning and bordering with trolling...

If you have a problem, who's problem is it? I'll let you work that out for yourself!

I completely agree with what you say. I been following this since I met josh in 2012 In London and knew within minutes my investment was gone, months before delivery! I been around enough to see right through scum like him. And he knows it too. He does his best to keep people who know what he is on side as he did with pg, and he got burned by him!

And because I've spent the time finding the true history (I actually had about 10 police officers last night all listening to me about them being used and how they are going to be fucked over last night, even they know something's not right to the point of taking notes from a seemingly piss head) and a want and will to seek it out you want to call me a troll. Truth is stranger than fiction. Look up the khazararian's, that's a good starting point for you. And how the roman empires postal service became the spy network (Germany much???) And the benzitines took the idea of religion and state further than the romans did. 1000s of years of manipulation as made people zombified pieces of flesh and blood with no guts. Weak and perfetic.

Listen dude, I'm in the same boat! But even in a minority of 1, truth is still the truth! I just never let schooling get in the way of my education!

Peace bro, no offense ever intended and I can't teach, you can only teach yourself (Henze schooling is just programming!)

Dude, really... I was in Yugoslavia in '91 and '94. You want to "teach" me about history, manipulation et cetera?!? Funny...

But that sj.. is still off topic here and both your tone as well as ranting are making you look bad, so your message does NOT come across...

Consider that (and grow up).