Bitcoin Forum

One of the condition of the hacker was for klee to lock the original bounty thread. I've been following that thread, so I suppose if there's anything left that can be done or posted about, it can be continued in here. It just really sucks to see klee admit defeat and forced to accept the ransom for just a fraction of what he originally lost.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=686275.0


How was the 462 btc amount determined?

Indeed I have also been following this on the nxt forum, and whilst of coarse I feel for the guy, if he had followed standard protocols he would still have his BTC and nxt I mean who in this day and age leaves his PW's in a flat txt file ?

Damn, that's a big theft there , i hope police will be able to do anything about it. Well i guess i will never have a feeling how it feels, but i can imagine. I was worried for my 0.5 btc, with like 20 character PW and a 5 special backups of wallet and i was still nervous about it...1170 btc, thats just sick ammount, like 700k$, you have to have that ammount secured in cold wallet.

I definitely felt for him on that one but at the least he was able to strike a deal of sorts with the hacker so there is something returning to his wallet not many people can say that.

Still qualifys on the master list though but I hope klee gets part of his coins and the scammer/hacker keeps up his part of the deal.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337.msg7802304#msg7802304

i imagine the 462 number is a percentage of sorts -- but it sounds like we'll never know. it's a private matter. at least he's gonna get quite a chunk back, and i'm sure he'll take better care of it now.

inb4 hacker don't give bak lol

not really a laughing matter. :-\

but it sounds like he signed a message from the address (or a linked address, if it moved). and made offers/demands. i doubt someone would go to those lengths otherwise. sounds like he wants to take a hit on the total loot in order to cut off any investigation. seems wise enough.

So far the hacker has return 4.62 BTC (not 462BTC) to the specified address. Looks like klee was scammed twice.

taunting his victim?

wanting to get the heat off so he can move the coins around?

how does that make him scammed twice ?
fucked over twice maybe. ?

750.000 GOD! I can kill my self it i lose that. But seriourly how can someone keep that money in online wallet? With my accout (less than 1 btc) i have it splitted in several wallets with three factors auth.

this ^

I keep my moderate stash in 4 different paper wallets, multiple copies and i still get nervous.

i can't even imagine keeping that many bitcoin and not using paper wallets cold storage or Armory

Thats a sick amount.. But the guy should be trackable don't you think so?

The BTC has already been through a mixer (as was noted by the mixer service in Klee's topic) and supposedly all records that could have traced the mixing have already been deleted (so there is no way that they can trace the hacker without at least losing their credibility as a mixing service).

I do think that the stuff about having 36 days to return the 462 BTC amount doesn't look very legit (i.e. the hacker gains 1 month to "disappear to another country").

If the hacker wants it over and done with why wouldn't he just give it all over now and be done with it? Smells fishy to me.

From what I can see, so far the hacker hasn't held up on their end with the promise (the only tx to the agreed address is - https://blockchain.info/tx/bfdedc91f7f909ad56733bbcffc75214ad49f96d362ae2fb69fb6b529173686a) which is about 100x less than the overall amount and 50x less than the agreed amount for the first split.

Maybe he is mixing these coins again to be sure, before sending them to klee?

I suppose that could be possible, but why wouldn't he just send the coins from the current address their in then mix? Considering that he already received a signed message and to verify signed messages you need a Bitcoin address (and for the address to have any relevance it needs to have enough coins in it), the address is already known to at least klee... Not to mention, sending them in relatively small chunks is going to take a while if at all.

Obviously, the hacker was starting to feel the heat of being scrutinized so much and worried that the mixing funds might get frozen somehow.  I really think that klee should man up like Roger Ver and leave no quarter for the scum.  Taking a token from him only condones that the behavior pays off.  It is time to turn up the heat now and not kowtow.  You have another bit in the puzzle in that the email service (albeit anonymous) might have an IP to go with the hacker. Every lead counts.

My vote is fry him, he is already nervous, don't let him sleep well at night.  Remember mister hacker, not everyone is silly enough to tip you off by posting in a forum.

Wrong. No mixing has taken place on the major balances:

https://blockchain.info/address/1PkzdYBpcLvf5kKUanbp7dpGEjt9AvNVmN
https://blockchain.info/address/1EyJWr7qwJazi8F4q3uEXDJLRhSHkqfaGd
https://blockchain.info/address/1HZMa4M9ZXmcLEvALVop8Ks1dJFApMdKEU

The coins are being split into smaller and smaller amounts, but are still totally traceable to the original stolen balance.

Then please explain what was the post from the mixing service was referring to then?

In any case it doesn't seem reasonable to require 36 days to put the rest through mixing services.

Hacker mixed BurtW's tags, that was all.

You are a very bitcoin/nxt/scripting savvy person, you should know that.

I didn't look into this situation in much depth at all but had noticed the mixing service itself making a statement (which I thought referred to a lot more than just some tags).

So the hacker has only mixed a small % of the coins? Is that the 4.62 BTC that had been sent?

The 36 days still seems rather fishy to me though.

It's more like 36 days to move to another state not to mix the coins  ;)

Or another country (yes - my sentiments exactly).

Yep or probably that.

That's nice but klee already claimed that he has fammily and that the hacker had full control of his computer (emails included etc) and i don't wonder that klee is worried about his family even thought it was maybe just some skinny 19 years old kid. 

Some people have discussed it could be log files are generally deleted after 28 days.

The hacker knows his information has been exposed somewhere, so he is trying to end it now with this poor offer.

Although klee is worried about his personal info being exposed by the hacker, the hacker is probably some fat old computer slob who wouldn't survived a week in prison and knows it. It makes no sense for a victim to back down to a coward who is cornered. But that is the publicly available story we are discussing in this thread ;) ;D

That may be true also, have you ever seen bodybuilded dude with huge gang as a hacker? His phisycal condition is probably really really poor and judging by that ammount of time he wants between these transactions he clearly left some traces in dropbox, someone should make the dropbox developers give us the IP. 

No offense, but I fail to see what his physical abilities have to do with his hacking abilities (if it is even a he). Not trying to be a big downer, but to be brutally honest if you were to go via the criminal justice system your case would probably collapse if you didn't have much more information than his IP to prove that he did it. From what I've read (and learnt), judges don't really believe that an IP equates to a specific person (as piracy cases will show you). How would you even prove he stole it, although unlikely, he could claim that it was transferred by klee to him for some unbeknownst reason? And how would you know you had the right guy, unless you managed to get a warrant for police to raid his equipment?

Or would you just take the more dangerous and possibly convenient route and hire someone to scare him/worse? And even worse, what happens if you get the wrong guy?

I wonder whether this thread will affect whether the scammer sends back the funds to klee... he at least could use it as another delaying excuse and isn't particularly helpful to him. I don't think there is a lot to be discussed here, but the fact that he is even offering any kind of repaid funds suggests he might be a bit worried about being found out... if I was klee I'd pursue him further as the scammer's tracks may not be untrackable.

The problem is time is working against klee.  Every day that passes means less residue remains to locating this person.

I'm pointing on that that klee accepted his defeat as he is worried about his fammily, he claimed that in another thread wich i'm currently not sure about wich one it was.

The way the mixer works is this:

1) You put the coins you want mixed into the system.
2) After just a few confirmations and subtracting out the 0.5% fee the mixing system sends you new mixed coins that it already has in reserve.
3) At that point the thief was done, they had their stolen coins back from the mixer within a few confirmations.

4) After the transaction is complete the mixing service goes to work on the coins that the customer sent to them.  The coins are chewed up over many hours/days and spun with other coins they have in reserve getting them ready to send out to other customers.

So, you can see that the addresses you are looking at have nothing to do with the thief's new coins they got from the mixing service.

Your statement:


is incorrect.  It would more acurate to say:  The original coins are being processed.  The thief is long gone.

I believe that hacker is not from the same country as the victim, therefore, hacker doesen't need a month for that reason. Maybe hacker is just playing a game with the guy to have better sleep, when he will stop bounty after him.

But then there is no point of thief returning the coins, only if he knows that he exposed his real IP, or left any other traces somewhere along the way. 

True, but that is a totally different issue.

Why doesn't he go to FBI with this? I am sure they have the resources to deal with that. Did not they catch some traders from Silk Road?

hacker step .
1 . infected pc of victims
2 . monitoring activity full
3 . check all keylogging
4 . crack all item of victims
5 . take all . and leave

maybe him get infected . he must know what he do in internet

Are you saying bitmixer had 1170BTC in reserve, paid them out instantly to the hacker and bitmixer are now in the process of mixing the stolen 1170, which is the splitting we are seeing on the blockchain?

Okay, I looked at the bitmixer FAQ.


Massively risky transaction for bitmixer to carry out if the FBI got involved and force them to hand over control of those coins.

Basically now bitmixer.io are fully responsible for the theft and are in possession of the stolen funds, right? They've basically accepted a suitcase full of marked banknotes and exchanged them for a suitcase full of unmarked banknotes. And fully admitted to it in the old thread:


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=686275.msg7816359#msg7816359

So bitminer.io done it. Inform the Oslo police. Please bitminer.io, return funds to klee and bounty to me if you don't want to spend the rest of your life in prison. Thanks

Bitmixer is just as responsible for this, may justice be served and I hope it does!

It isn't up to bitmixer or others to "be the police" (how can they even be sure there was any theft?).

Bitcoin has given us some amazing freedom but at a much higher cost of "personal responsibility" for looking after our private property.

Bitmixer has not much to do with hack, they have just provided the service for hacker.

People in the bitcoin community are so strange.

bitmixer.io knowingly accepted $750,000 in stolen funds.

They did not inform the police.

That is a crime.

they just tumble magical internet maneys

eat a dick

How do you know that they "knowingly accepted $750,000 in stolen funds" - do you have proof of this (and if so then maybe you should be reporting them to the police)?

I have no proof that klee lost 1170BTC in the first place, other than he said he did. So how could I take his case to the police? It's up to klee.

Putting together what BurtW said in this thread- that all the coins have already been mixed. And bitmixer's admission in the old thread they had sent the hacker new coins.

It's all there, proof who is now in possession of the stolen coins, purchased from the hacker.

I'm impressed by how many flock to the defence of criminals and criminal acts.

Dumb kid.  Very dumb.

I am certainly not trying to defend any criminals or criminal acts.

I just think people need to think carefully about all the issues here and not start to form "lynch mobs" or the like.

(btw - best to ignore some of the more silly posts being made here and elsewhere - this is bitcointalk and the trolls love it)

If I stole $750k of gold and sold it to someone, would I be guilty of a crime? Yes.
Would the person who bought that gold be guilty of a crime (recieiving stolen goods)? Yes.
How would "I didn't know it was stolen" stand up as a defence in the real world?
Someone gave you $750k in return for $746k and that was not suspicious? Come on!

Keep looking for the hacker for sure.

But some of the people who provide "services" on this forum need to step back and say to themselves "Would this be a crime in the 'real world', i.e. offline? What if it were fiat or precious metals?"

If it is still a crime, then you should not be providing that service in the bitcoin world, even if people here seem to go along with it.

Because the people that will be called on to prosecute you will be using laws from the 'real world'.

what the fuck did you just say to me, you little bitch?

Good try troll (well actually not even a good try - you just resort to name calling straight away?).

A more clever troll would have come up with something a bit more creative and bit less aggressive.

This is a previous transaction I made myself. I deliberately chose this address for the hacker too.

Klee, any explanation on why 36 days if the btc has been already laundered and are in hacker's hands?

I don't know if they are laundered or not!

According to bitmixer.io they're already are:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=686275.msg7816359#msg7816359

How do we know it was the whole amount?

I am not sure someone could mix that easily a big amount like that.
Probably he would need smaller chunks.

I would speculate that it would give him time to further mix the coins and let enough time for the logs on the mixing services to be deleted. If Klee was still looking for the thief then the mixing services may wish to retain the logs and give them to klee so the thief's identity could be discovered. If klee is openly saying that he has no further claim against the thief then the mixing services would have no reason to retain logs

Klee is in a rather bad situation - of course he'd rather get 40% of his BTC back than none.

The mixing service needs to make their own decision about what they do and of course authorities may be interested in that.

First chunk sent: https://blockchain.info/address/16NCirZABu9i56hKzfUjEvP44SdNeLRSN3

But still unconfirmed.

Yeah i just saw this when there was 2 confirmations , good at least your recovering a part of your loses.

I am guessing that the hacker is now watching this topic also - he should be advised to make sure he sends the rest of the funds he promised to send ASAP.

Most of us do not see any good reason for 36 days and so it would be in his best interests to make good on this as quickly as possible.

As stated before: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=686275.msg7789438#msg7789438

As it is happening: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=686275.msg7816359#msg7816359


i/p amounts are mostly in 50 BTC.

Why the thief is spooked after mixing ?

Most probably, he has used his receiving address from mixer before which is attached to his real world identity.

Why we can do now ?

Trace back from the i/p of this Tx to find hackers identity.

https://blockchain.info/tx/98ca4040dc65dbab362645ab3241889780ee2ae839b29a6e099c98431f624f6c

p.s. As the bounty is no more... I dont know how far that would be achieved !!! But, we were close to the hacker, because of the bounty.

36 days time has been taken for a reason. He'll now mix the other coins using other mixers or alt coins. But as Klee has declared he is happy with 462 coins, no one will freeze his fund or trace him. He'll get enough time to cover his traces with multiple mixing. It shows again, we were close... very close. One complaint against Bitmixer could hunt him down... because, I firmly believe, he has accepted coins in a previously used address, where his identity is attached on some forum on the web.

Even if the output address was not attached to his identity, if bitmixer were to give up the output address, it would effectively make mixing coins useless and would never be able to actually cash out.

This is one of the o/p address provided by the thief (he is not a hacker, he has no ethics) to bitmixer.io: https://blockchain.info/address/1PGcQz81CkR7N4coxn66G3SnVXZiKA4ry7

Mixing happened here: https://blockchain.info/tx/8c0ff3dbb2d1338ac0a9f08d95c45f63131a527328376a6fbecafcd542ddf150

Agreed - a thief is not a "hacker" (according to the original meaning of hacker which we have spent many years "reclaiming").

So - I would ask the thief to return 90% of the funds (10% as a *lesson* for Klee about securing his assets seems fair to me).

Unfortunately, we're not dealing with Robin Hood here. Everything about this says to me that the thief is just stringing along to give the least amount possible in order to halt any investigation.

Could you explain this to me? What if he uses tor/tails and effectively made an address just to send the coins to. If bitmixer gives output couldnt he just say mix the coins through fog or blender and be right back to square one?:

I only ask as Im new to the inner workings Bitcoin.

And unfortunately for him he has "disturbed a hornet's nest" so I guess it is up to him to work out just how clever he thinks he is (and how much stress he wants in his life).

The refunded coins you have recieved certainly seem to be from a mixer, so I think it's fair to assume they were mixed by the hacker.

bitmixer say on their website they can handle sums of BTC greater than 1000BTC if they have at least 5 confirmations, so it doesn't seem impossible the hacker sent it through as one 1170BTC transaction.

That said, the scripted mixing of the 221BTC started here (as you will see, the timestamp ends with 02 seconds. The mixer processed all splits after that at 02 or 03 seconds into a new minute, obviously indicates a script at work):
https://blockchain.info/address/17eHmNKr6Cb1U4uBhcnfs3iwWKsZGtRLaV

Mixing 410BTC started here
https://blockchain.info/address/16j6RQrJc3cyGEqe6BtApXkoNZ4Yy5z5Wo

Mixing 540BTC started here
https://blockchain.info/address/14DZ3Yjb39sDTMwKd19Ly4PK15BKZfLXWZ

Which is interesting, in that I revise my assessment the hacker was a savvy hacker. I was lead to believe that by the scripted splitting of the coins etc, which was in fact the work of the mixer service.

So the hacker could be any stupid lowlife opportunist scum-fuck halfwit who got lucky raiding a dropbox.

bitmixer.io are party in a $750,000 theft. If they have deleted all their records, then it looks like they are the ones who will have to do the time for the crime.

Do you think the hacker will be mixing the coins with his ip provided by local internet service? lol there is no way to trace out the real location.

Indeed it is.

Especially here in the USA

Anyone know where bit mixer.io is or hosted?

LoL... seems u have no clue how the trace back takes place ;)

Europe

Money laundering is also a crime in Europe  ;D

Where abouts in Europe ?

You do a psychological take-down on the hacker, to the point where he begs to give back some of what he stole and it's unnoticed. Who was turning the screw? To the point the hacker himself required the thread be closed down as part of the deal, because he was reading it and some of us made it too tangible what will happen to him. He couldn't face it.

The details on bitmixer are all there, if you go searching. Shit, I even mentioned it earlier  :o  ::)

If I had 1000 btc stolen, I would probably take the deal.  :-\

It is a large sum of money, and likely to appreciate even more in a few years. It is better to have something back rather than nothing at all. It is against the moral principles, but the amount is too big to risk.

Woah, you guys are turning this into a war on mixing services? Bitmixer was doing their job. They provide a service, and it would be a useless service if they retained records that would incriminate their customers.

That's good it's still something at least but yah its a bind
Best of luck with this klee now for the next one in 36 days

I think you should read what I said earlier about the "real world". Just because BTC is digital does not mean it is not subject to the same laws as physical, fiat currency.

This is a money laundering service. If bitmixer can hire the same lawyers as HSBC, they can perhaps just get away with a fine.

Otherwise, they will need to explain laundering $750,000 of stolen money.

But as I also said earlier, it's down to klee. He can just let the criminals away with their crimes if he so decides.

Saying "Bitmixer was doing their job" is like saying a hitman is doing his job. He is, if you believe it's okay to pay people to murder others for cash?

Once again, it amazes me how people support blatant criminality in the bitcoin community.

I know I'm lazy as in out right now .

I'll have a deeper look Into this tonight or tomorrow morn

There is a mistaken belief that a victim has to contact authorities before any type of formal criminal investigation to proceed.  Not so.  There is an element at play here called coercion.  Attempting to neutralize a victim' desire to prosecute by dangling the proceeds of their activity as bait is a factor used in probable cause affidavit, search warrant, and ultimately a criminal indictment.  This is more than sufficient justification for initiating a covert investigation.  The only problem with that is, both sides will be equally scrutinized.  Yes, I'm more than confident this individual will be caught.

Interesting. Can you point to some examples of cases where BTC were stolen, and law enforcement got involved -- subpoenaed witnesses, confiscated property, etc? Regarding the bolded, it depends what you mean. Are you saying mixing services are illegal? Are you saying they are immoral? If the former, what precedent can you point to?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20673466

That doesn't answer the question, though. Have there been any cases like that? I'd like to know myself. :)

Am I everyone's mother?

http://bit.ly/1kmo7B0

Don't really see anyone going after Bitmixer.io here. Maybe things are changing, but historically, just hasn't happened. Law enforcement have never considered it important enough... look at Inputs.io -- that was recent. Was there even a criminal investigation?

Norway

What a bunch of whiners.  You want freedom, you want Bitcoin, you want it to function as fungible money or a money like entity, you want privacy, "the government has taken is taking all our rights", "we don't want them snooping into our emails or personal affairs", etc. etc.  You want your sacred privacy

until you don't

Then it's they should do something about this!  Mixing should be illegal!  For God's sake that is money washing or something!  OMG!  Please Mr. Government or lawyers judges etc. of the "just-a-system" help us poor consumers!  Protect us from evil!  Here please take my rights and freedom...

All coins should be automatically washed by the protocol - this was an oversight.  First, we wouldn't have to have this same damn conversation every time someone washes coins that you personally think should not be able to.  Second, that way it would be impossible to black/gray/red/white list coins and Bitcoin would have a fighting chance of remaining the fungible money we all want it to be.

Unless you don't want it to remain fungible and you are here to destroy it with your anti-fungibility antics?

Privacy is critical for the functioning of the Bitcoin system.  Without it the whole experiment will fail.  With it comes some new things like not being able to track/trace/refund/destroy coins that in your personal opinion are "bad" coins.

I fully support bitmixer.  They provide a valuable and essential service for the Bitcoin ecosystem.

By all means go after criminals.  Go after them with everything at your disposal - just don't expect to be able to do it by tracing Bitcoin transactions.  Find another way.

Something like this (if true) would certainly be better than destroying Bitcoin in order to try to make it more like your favorite government issued toilet paper:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=693621.0;topicseen

We should learn from this. I think mixers should require some sort of proof of ownership of bitcoins for mixes of more than 10btc. Mixing over $700,000 worth of bitcoins without asking how he/she obtained them is ridiculous.

that is anonymity

If you had just read the previous post , you would have not posted this.

If have 11 BTC and I want my privacy.
There would be no "proof of ownership" you speak of without giving up your personal information.

They don't ask how they are obtained because they are trying to do the exact opposite.
They are trying to eliminate any possible way to trace their client.
Tracing their client first , to eliminate the possible ways to trace them as you say would be hypocritical.

Like a TOR, our service has not been designed for criminals. It was designed for guard privacy. Like a TOR, our service is used by criminals as well. But as I said if we can't guard criminal, we can't guard nobody including you.

btw, we have a big lack - fixed fee. Look deeper here hunters.

That's a pretty weak argument, as it's exactly the same argument you used the last time. Not got anything more substantial to say to defend yourself other than "who knew criminals would flock to a money laudering service?".

Also, if you feel what you do is so legitimate, please provide your real name, address of your business, full details of your business, tax information etc.

I don't see that. Because you know that while some may argue on an intellectual, idealogical level that money laundering is good for bitcoin - in practice, the only people who use this service on a significant scale are those laundering stolen bitcoin.

But like I said, if you are truly providing a legitimate service that is not meant solely for use by criminals, please provide your real name, address of your business, profits and losses for the year, tax information etc.

In conclusion, I would say your service IS designed for criminals. But backed by some intellectual idea that it's good for bitcoin.

But those intellectuals won't be in court when you are charged with laundering $750,000 of stolen bitcoin and knew you were doing it.

Try explaining hiding the proceeds of a $750,000 crime to a judge in the real world with your argument about guarding criminals. How do you think that would turn out?

Can someone TL;DR this ?
I am going to guess you guys are blaming bitmixer because the hacker used that service ?
bit of a stupid argument if my guess is correct.

why not blame microsoft or firefox....... dot dot....

That is true but they burn all their files every twelve hours which we know is true or else klee wouldn't have been screwed so it does not really matter that they have your information because you know that they will not hold onto it.

Real name? What happened to the right to be anonymous, as one of the core principles of bitcoin?

Profits and losses for the year? Why would private entity, which does not sell it's stocks on the market publish their financial data?

Tax information? I thought we were aiming for global, virtual, corporations which are not subdued to any government or state authority, what happened to those goals?

Nobody is supporting criminals, but calling the government(s) to protect us from those individuals is playing right into the politicians hands. I would not be surprised if those criminals were in fact some agencies who want to show us we are small and we need security they provide, not freedom from their authority.

Avenger, it sounds like Bitcoin is not for you.  What you are looking for is USD.  These are easily traced and tracked.  But expect to give up all your personal information and ownership of your money when you open an account and make a deposit.  You can open up an account at your local bank.

I didn't say that it would help the government trace their customers.
I said it would be hypocritical.

They will be going against what they stand for , what they do.
Bitmixer will then have 100% information about everyone.

Secondly , how do you prove that you own the Bitcoins ?

Difference here is "user" and "service provider".

Bitcoin users have the right to be anonymous, if they so desire.

But people providing "legitimate" bitcoin services are businesses and need to act like businesses.

bitmixer.io took $4000+ for their "service" to the thief/hacker.

If bitmixer is a legitimate business, providing a legitimate service, then there is no reason not to be transparent. I think them hiding behind a cloak of anonymity reveals the true intention and intended clientele of their "service".

Where did I ask the government to get involved??!!? I said people should look at what they are doing and see how it would stand up in the real world.

I asked bitmixer to prove they are a legitimate business is what I asked.

The problem and solution to this can be handled within the bitcoin community. But it doesn't help if you are putting words in people's mouth and supporting blatant criminality.

What you are really saying here is "People providing "legitimate" bitcoin services are businesses and need to act like fiat businesses." This simply is not true. Bitcoin businesses aim not to hoard themselves into national borders. They aim not to have "default" currency in align to the owners nationality. They aim to be truly global and not submit themselves to any government authority. If you insist that Bitmixer owners submit themselves to the state authority they live in, they will get the court order to collect their users data in no time. Have you noticed that best BTC gambling site, Just-Dice, had to close themselves last month because Canada ordered them to collect all users data before their users can place a bet? Do you want the same to happen to Bitmixer?

I did not say that.

You are saying they want to be above the law. I've got no problem with global currency, just not global theft/money laundering being seen as a-okay in the bitcoin community.

I don't know whether Just-Dice were involved in a $750,000 theft and money laundering "service"?

But bitmixer were.

Do you think Shavers should have been able to defraud everyone and get away with it, because he was providing a "bitcoin ponzi service" ;D He was only providing a service, right?

Maybe you haven't noticed, but in fact you did say that. By reveling the Bimixer's owners identity and place they run their business from, they immediately submits themselves to the possible court order to collect their users data. Maybe there even should not be any court order at all, they may be obliged to that by the laws of that country, depends where they live in.



I'm saying exactly that, "above the law" of the country they live in until the legislative in countries Bitcioin business operate from catch up with the idea of global cryptocurrency nobody has any authority of. It will happen in a few years (or decades?) but will eventually happen. Until then, I support the idea that the community should not force the business to lose their anonymity if they chose to be anonymous. Some businesses, like the exchanges, will choose not to be anonymous so they could convert fiat currencies to BTC, but some will chose to stay anonymous. We should support that.

I don't support
- theft
- blackmailing the victim into giving up claims on his own money
- money laundering the stolen funds
- defence of any of the above

Privacy and mixing of BTC are both necessary for the proper functioning of the Bitcoin system.  If you are against both then Bitcoin is not for you.  So why are you wasting your time here?  We all want a properly functioning Bitcoin system, you want to change fundamental underpinnings of the system and in this way destroy it.  What is up with that?

Mixing is NOT built into the bitcoin protocol. The day it is, I will agree with your statement. Until then...

And your statement is what I said earlier

i.e. criminals

It's easy to judge the Bitmixer from the tower of moral high-castle, but you are member of this community and we have to put the pressure on Bitmixer for what it is doing - or not. We have a choice: accept, or not accept, the money laundering of the stolen funds. There's no middle ground, either Bitmixer has to collect the user's data and help the government agencies catch a thief, or let them do what they are doing because it is all part of the life of anonymous, global, unregulated cryptocurrency. If we choose to cry for governments to help us than we don't deserve that anonymity in the first place.

Either mixing will become everyday OR coin listing will become everyday.  If mixing then Bitcoin will survive as money, if coin listing then Bitcoin will fail as money and become a collectible.  Hence my statement that mixing is necessary for Bitcoin to survive as money.

You are not reading or listening at all. I have never said get the government involved.


Hence this discussion. And yes, it's total about putting pressure on bitmixer for what they are doing.

If the bitcoin community decide that what they have done is wrong and unconscionable, then the bitcoin community can instruct bitmixer to make amends that will satisfy the bitcoin community.

Either they claw back the mixed funds from the hacker. Or pay the outstanding bitcoin back to klee from their own pocket.

Otherwise, bitmixer are out of the bitcoin commmunity, as their criminality is not something accepted here. Although it feels like I'm the only person who thinks this way.

He is spot on.  It is you that is not listening to us.

Privacy is a double edged sword. We, as Bitcoiners, need to either accept that or watch Bitcoin destroyed.

But millions of dollars being stolen, blackmail, money laundering and that being condoned by the bitcoin community won't? Right.

That's exactly what makes privacy a double edged sword. I suggest considering the deep implications of what you are pushing.

Says the guy with trust of -463 :D

;D

You may not be alone but what you and all the other anti-privacy advocates need to realize is just how important and critical privacy is to the rest of us.  You might as well go into an NRA convention and preach that they should all turn over their guns to the local sherrif.  What you are not getting is that you are talking to the Bitcoin community and we are saying no, we are not willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater.  What you are saying in this post above will never be accepted by the community because that would destroy Bitcoin.

Or is the destruction of Bitcoin your actual goal?

The fact you use the term claw back is very telling of your state.  You fear freedom and privacy - you want money that can be clawed back, again Bitcoin is not for you.  Go back to the safety of USD and be happy and fear free.

You are thick and can't/don't read.  I am not anti-privacy. Also, you do not speak for the entire bitcoin community. Read what I wrote and comment appropriately. Or else go away if you can't comprehend what is being said and discuss it without putting words into my mouth.

my god good luck guy , wish catch  the thief ASAP

Well, bitmixer did not know that coins were stolen, they provide mixing service to anyone. Just because they confirmed afterwards of hacker using their service does not make them involved in the thieft.

I hope klee get his funds back but we all need to take security very seriusly.

For f#ck's sake, PLEASE get up on multi-sig for personal security as outlined by Bitcoin Core dev Manuel Aráoz in this video:

http://www.bitcoinmediaproject.com/blog/manuel-araoz-multisig/

#NOMOREHACKS

OK, I am willing to back up to make sure I understood what you are saying, this is what I heard:

1) You believe that bitmixer should provide information about the thief.  If they do not you say they are equally guilty, right?
2) In order to do that they would have to collect information on their customers, right?
3) You also believe that bitmixer should be totally public about who they are, where their business is located, otherwise you say they are not legit and their only purpose must be to server criminals - the old "if you have nothing to hide why do you want your privacy" meme.
4) If this were true then the government would come knocking on their door and demand to see their customer records.  You know this.

Correct me where I misunderstood your thinking here.

In regards to the whole fungibility and mixing issue I think we need to remember one thing first.

It was Klee who left his passwords in an unencrypted text file and who had not put any coins into "cold storage" (and he has admitted that this was his own fault).

Although I don't condone stealing for a second if you leave a pile of gold nuggets in glass box sitting in your lounge room do you think the police are going to be starting a huge manhunt when said gold goes missing?

Anonymity and privacy require people to be able to do their own security and unfortunately that is not something that most are used to (they are more used to having governments and banks look after them).

The best advice to people is "secure your bitcoins" rather then arguing about whether mixers should be shut down (if thieves can't get your coins in the first place then there is no need to be worried about them mixing them later).

Okay. What I'm reading says "no one has the right to their own property in bitcoin community".

Theft is fair game.

Therefore, everyone please send me every single bitcoin you possess.

Don't worry! I won't say you gave it to me willingly! We can make up some story about how I stole it.

If you don't, then I will put you on my ignore list (< blackmail).

So that's the theft and blackmail, which everyone here supports.

Once I have the funds, I will put them through a mixer, the kind of money laundering that is also cool and acceptable with everyone here.


Once you've done that, we can continue this discussion.

I really need you to put your money where your mouth is to truly believe what you are saying. It'll be a principled stand to do this, to back up your words with every single bitcoin you possess.

Please send me a message once you have sent me ALL you bitcoin, including the story you would like to propagate about how I stole them. It will need to be kind of plausible, like gmail hack or weak passwords etc. We can work on the story together if you are not very imaginative.

I will then comment on your message in this thread.

Given what I've read, this is totally reasonable and agreeable here. But once they have gone through the mixer, that is the end of story - I don't want anyone complaining or asking for them back.

P.S. I'll need to wait for 6 confirmations before I post replies. This message is directed to everyone in this thread who is ok with money-laundering etc.

P.P.S. It really needs to be a staggering, jaw dropping amount. Every single bitcoin you own. The sort of amount if you lost, you'd contempt throwing yourself off a bridge. And while you are watching everything you once owned go through a mixer, knowing you will never ever get it back - only then will you truly be able to see how you feel about mixers/money laundering. Please take part in recreating this situation with every bitcoin you own and putting your money where you mouth is. The experience will be worth it, I guarantee you.

Where exactly did you read that from my post?

My point was that if you have something of value *you secure it* (otherwise why do we have companies that make safes?).

Klee decided not to secure his BTC other than through a single password to a dropbox account. This was my point about leaving gold nuggets in a glass display case (in a home with a standard lock if you couldn't infer that).

I am getting tired of repeating myself as I am sure you are too.

Here is all I really want to say:

Coin mixing is fundamentally required in order to prevent coin listing and the destruction of the fungibility of Bitcoin.  For coin mixing to work for this purpose it must be anon and hopefully some day fully automatic.  If people steal Bitcoins they should be caught and punished.  If/When coin mixing is the norm you will not be able to use the blockchain to track stolen money so these early thefts using coin mixers are a great opportunity to develop other ways to catch the criminals.

At the time they didn't, but now bitmixer is well aware that they are stolen funds.  To top it off they are now allowing the funds to be mixed. 

At this point they are assisting the criminal and they are an accomplice in this mess.

Have someone hunted this part ?

Again, coins are mixed and hacker has new ( fresh ) coins what was completed after 12 hrs when he sent stolen funds. Mixer does not even have forward address, so how they are involved knowlingly? It goes autimaticly. That time 12hrs can be adjusted too.
I suggest you to read how bitmixer works.

What to you supose them to do? They did not know that they were stolen and now can not do anything about it. Hacker/theift sent them stolen coins and after 12 hrs hacker got "fresh" coins what bitmixer had already in their pool. Only after this completition they posted in bitcointalk how hacker used their service.
Bad things happen, such service exist, klee had poor security and he has only one to blame here. That is reallity, its not ideal but we do not live in ideal world and think never will - human nature.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=216447

I will remove if bitmixer.io can prove conclusively they did not launder klee's stolen coins.

I will also remove in the event bitmixer.io return to klee all remaining BTC that was stolen from him (at this time, that total is 925BTC).

it seems your issue is with bitcoin mixers in general. bitmixer is not the only such service, and i think you'll have a difficult time convincing bitcoiners with this crusade.

Another person putting words into my mouth.

I have not gone round every mixer service and commented on their trustworthiness. Just this one, for very particular reasons discussed in this thread. So how do you come to this stupid conclusion??

Can morons stop putting words in my mouth. thanks!

I am very capable of speaking for myself, sometimes with large fonts, so maybe it will get through to your brains.

OK, now you are looking stupid.  You know they laundered those specific coins because we traced them and they said they did.  Why the totally bogus "I will remove if bitmixer.io can prove conclusively they did not launder klee's stolen coins."?  They cannot prove they did not do it because they did - and already said so.  You know that, they know that, everyone knows that.  Your statement is logically equivalent to "I will never remove this"

They are never going to return the coins.  You also know this.  Why should they?  They have no reason to.  Your dinging their trust will not faze them in the least little bit.

And every mixer will mix any coins they get.  None of them check the source of the coins - none of them.  So your issue is with the entire concept of anon coin mixing.  In your eyes all mixers are guilty because all mixers have and will continue to mix stolen coins.  You do not like that and you want it to stop.  That is obvious from your posts.  Good luck with that.

Another person putting words into my mouth.

I have not gone round every mixer service and commented on their trustworthiness. Just this one, for very particular reasons discussed in this thread. So how do you come to this stupid conclusion??

Can morons stop putting words in my mouth. thanks!

I am very capable of speaking for myself, sometimes with large fonts, so maybe it will get through to your brains.

and why do you take particular issue here, considering many other bitcoin mixers have presumably laundered many more coins in a similar fashion? you just feel it's necessary to crusade against one mixer, one time, for a case that's been duplicated countless times?

I really can't understand why do you care so much what other people do with their finances. Jealousy?

BTW you lied on your trust report.  You report that you risked 1170 BTC with the service.  You did not.  Your risk was 0.  They were not your coins.  You did not use the service.

Unless.....

Are you are the hacker that used the service?  That is what you imply in your trust report.

Making text bigger doesn't 'get through to our brains'. Write like a normal person. It outlines it better than bigger text.

Idea..
How about mixing service without a fee? How all you would react if bitmixer did not charged anything in this case?
But maybe we are getting to off topic here.

Yes, coin mixing should be a standard part of the protocol and used on every transaction.  Sending a direct transaction that can be traced should cost a lot extra, maybe even 10x or more of the cost of a mixed transaction.

That would be ideal.  We must work toward that goal.

That's interesting. Without the incentive (no fees), but with the risk (that they could be caught for laundering), I doubt anyone would provide the "service".

But if they did, then I'd think again for sure.

At this point in time though, it pretty clear what the motive of this "service" is.

Are you kidding me?   You just got done ranting on for pages about how bad/evil/illegal bitmixer is because they washed stolen coins and now you are turning around and saying that, well, it might be ok for them to do it as long as they do it for free?

Are you taking a moral position or not?  Why the sudden change of heart just because the service is free?  How does that make it any less evil in your eyes?  Do you believe profit in and of itself is evil?

Anyone who comes up and says

"My name is XYZ, from country XYZ. You can see my identity here.

I am running a mixing service to protect peoples privacy. There are no fees, I am providing a service I feel is essential for the bitcoin network.

The mixing service takes (for example) one week to spit out your coins at the other end, so I can be sure they are not reported stolen. After a week where no claims of theft have been made and evidence provided, they will be returned mixed."

I'm down with that.

I understand most of that with the exception of it having to be free.

Why?

What if it did everything you asked for but charged a fee?

I said "I'd think again for sure", I didn't say I'd change my mind. It's just you putting words into my mouth, again.

It's pretty tiresome most of my replies here are now me pointing out I didn't say something.

Thinking about something and changing your mind are two different things - do you get that?  

Can't you make an argument without changing what I've said to something I did not say?

It's just a bit pointless to continue to reply if you can't keep your arguments about what *YOU* say or think, rather than your replies telling me what *I* think or said when it's not what I think or said.

N.B. Accept my challenge above - send me all your bitcoin. It'll change your life and opinions, well worth it!  :P

it sounds like bitmixer should have a tick box "do you pinky swear the funds you are sending are not stolen"

why blame a service that does not check the source, and why should they. a bank does not ask if the funds are stolen when you deposit, or does a cafe or anywhere.  yeah it is terrible that someone stole that many bitcoins, but as others have said they should of been looked after better. im not saying he deserved to be hacked but everyone is running around looking for stupid things to blame when their is 1 person who made a huge mistake, unfortunately :(

and why are some of you going on about this so much. it is suspicious is what it is.

It was certainly not the right decision by klee to close the bounty thread.
The second payment will never be sent.

It's typical scamming behavior. The scammer just wants to gain time and hide from public attention.

Agreed.

The scammer doesn't want anybody to talk about it, for it to go away.

He might go so far as to try to kill the conversation by aiming the blame at people discussing it


Sydboy  :o

I feel for Klee he wanted his money back and saw that he probably would never get it back so settled for a small portion of it. Better than nothing. Now Klee can't really make a big deal unless the 2nd payment is sent. So we should protest and continue the investigation further.

I find this thread really sad, the amount of stupidity, hate and wannabe security expert off the chart, I'm not saying that everything that was said is wrong, in fact some of it makes a lot of sense but you guys are drifting away from the topic and forgetting the circumstances of the guy that got his BTC stolen, and here is my point of view of what was discussed.

1- I find it sad that people blaming the guy for not being extra cautious with his money, I'm sure that he is kicking him self for it and he doesn't need people to add salt to injury (I don't own and will probably never own as much btc and to my scale I can understand the feeling of losing too much of you money especially if it is funds related to your work), and he apparently had some level of security and I guess using cloud based storage with a password was more or less a backup plan for him and the person that target his account has either the information (inside job) or been tracking him for a long while.

2- Instead of blaming the owner, the blame should definitely be forwarded to the thief, that not only stole the BTCs but is blackmailing as well.

3- As for mixing service, while I believe such service is necessary to preserve the anonymity of it users and their BTCs, I believe that there should be a minimal of work ethic here, if a service knows and been informed that they are dealing with stolen funds or crime related funds with definitive prove they should freeze the BTCs till it cleared out, We all know that while such services are mainly to preserve anonymity, they will attract for this same reason a lot of criminals/money launderers, hence they should be careful, and they'll probably get in trouble for such service if they are not careful and trading money that has been flagged like this.

I just hope that the community will help Klee especially those who have the resources to track and found the culprit, because such actions will only render the bitcoin community stronger and will prevent crime, and I'm pretty sure that Klee will be extra careful next time with his bitcoin

+1

I think nobody here wanted to add salt to Klee situation. I am mtgox victim and lost a lot there. Recently I had stolen small btc amount (qt wallet)and where I do not know how hack accured. Probably a malware, but can not find a trace at my pc.
So I know the feeling. We must talk about it, find how it happened, have a list of known wallet stealar, suggestions how to secure our coins and to do it now - not later.

Edit
Iam willing to partner and invest into mixing service what would protect privacy, but would watch out to wash stolen funds. Need more thinking though.

I have been reading this thread and the original one with interest. I have to say it has taken an extremely unpredictable turn of events and it's important to consider why. I think the main reason that someone decided to give back some of the stolen funds clearly has to do with the fear of being caught. How would he be caught? Well, that's the point--he can never be sure. I think everyone should know by now that true anonymity on the internet is an illusion. If you want to be anonymous for some mundane tasks, no one will care. But try to be anonymous selling drugs (large amounts) or passing on military information and it's certain that you will be discovered pretty soon. I suspect the same principle applies to stealing 1000BTC. Therefore, once enough attention is brought, the chances that you will be caught by people who actually know what they are doing increase daily. I was actually waiting to read about this case on the front pages of the Wall St Journal. I think it still merits wider publicity.

As for the mixing service, it's clear to anyone that has ever run a business, that you are absolutely incompetent in running that business if you say that your entire reserves are 2000 BTC and you are willing to exchange half of those reserves for a miniscule fee without keeping any kind of records whatsoever--at minimum they should keep the addresses that they forwarded the BTC to. How can you just accept over 1000 BTC with no questions asked? A real business would ask for information and retain records. If you don't want to do that then you would be taking on enormous risk and you should ask for a 30% or 40% fee, which any thief would happily pay. That's why businesses that deal in illegal things have such huge profits--so that they can pay them all to lawyers when they get caught. See at the end of the day, the lawyers keep all the theft proceeds--one way or the other !!

Bj

Very sad for your loss klee.  I'm glad all work you put into tracking the hacker paid off somewhat.  Hopefully your able to get the agreed upon amount with the scum that stole your Bitcoin.

Mixers require proof of ownership for mixes of bitcoin of any size. They require confirmation by the network that coins were sent to their address.

The fear of being caught is definitely there for the thief. A HUGE amount of btc was stolen, so morals are out the window. The 462 btc being returned is not out of good faith but rather the fear being caught. Otherwise, one of the condition wouldn't have been to lock the original thread. He probably already knows of the evidence that has been left behind.

Regarding the discussion about mixing services, you guys are forgetting that a mixing service that logs it's users and retains their data so it can be shared is not going to get any business as it defeats the purpose of the mixing service. Even if Bitmixer had records, he has no inclination to share them seeing as he won't gain anything and it will damage his services reputation for maintaining anonymity.

I just read every post on Part 1 and Part 2 of this situation....

It is amazing to me how little people know about laws in general and what is legal and or not legal...

"The Avenger" is 100% correct...Bitmixer.io participated in the crime once they knew the coins were stolen and continued to process them. In fact, bitmixer's whole concept would be seen as a money laundering facility in any court of law, but the fact that Bitmixer wrote on a public forum that "yes, the criminal did use our service to launder his coins" and "no, we will not give up his identity" is just about the dumbest thing I have ever heard of someone doing...

Klee's contract with the criminal is worthless...any contract where the 'consideration' is based on a criminal activity is automatically void...

If I were Klee I would have 100% taken the deal, and I would secretly be pursuing the criminal and I would still offer up the bounty, but instead I would offer a partial bounty for bitmixer.io's information... With that kind of money at stake, once I found the owner of bitmixer.io, I would break him down by starting with him first and then moving to family members...

As to BurtW, you just dont get it....

Mixers are fine and I support them as well....I don't want people tracking my every move either...but this situation is different, once the mixer has reasonable justification that a crime has been committed and thus funds are being laundered through their mixer, then its their ass on the line...

If bitmixer.io had any common sense, he would publicly say that he will not give up the thief, privately give up the thief, take the reward, and then Klee should dispose of the thief...and I would just let everyone think that the thief got away with...mix the coins back into Klee's possession, pay bitmixer.io the ransom and both can go on happily knowing the real situation and what happened....

Hopefully that scenario will scare the thief (that is, if it hasn't already happened and the thief is even alive at this point)....

moderate stash = enough BTC for his blow up dolls and back pain meds from flippin burgers all day....

I'm just curious as to why the hacker gave in?
And whatever the reason, why did they agree on the number 462?
Something I just don't understand  ???

Tmobileguy
What do you mean by ''bitmixer continue to process when they were aware of coins being stolen''.and that make them guilty in theft.
Go on bitmixer and read how it works.

Anybody send to bitmixer any amount to being mixed.
After 12 hr ( adjustable) bitmixer automaticly send back full amount or chunck of mixed fresh coins back to the sender ( hacker)
They delete all records of the user, specificly forward btc address.

So in short, mixing were done in 12 hrs. People who will use their service after this is very likely to get some of stolen coins, but that is now another matter, is it not?I guess now that bitmixers users who have stolen coins should do what exactly?
Hacker sent x amount of btc to bitmixer and got x - fee of btc 12 hrs later after his deposit. With that last tx bitmixer service ended for the hacker. So in short bitmixer were aware of stolen coins after after 'exchange' took place.

Please, do not get me wrong, Iam not defending bitmixer actions, just stating my opinion as I do not find them involved withthe thieft or that they knew anything while mixing with the hacker ( during 12 hr).

On another note, best protected privacy is where all party are anonimous.

Edit
@all
Please, if you have any suggestion for Klee, write him a pm. That is all what I'll say.

I just tested out bitmixer. My new coins have 100% taint to the thiefs original address. Should I be worried about using them on exchanges with my real name? ???

Update
Bteer released NXT to the admin of nxtforum what will end up to klee account.

Hmm what does that mean Klees coins were caught in transit or something?
In that case its good news for him

Good news for klee. Thief stole nxt aside btc and transfered nxt to the bter. Under complain they froze hacker account and today with hacker approval bter transfered frozen nxt to the admin of nxt forum who act as a escrow.

Source

 /nxtforum.org/general-discussion/bter-com-froze-3129000-nxt-and-need-you-help-to-return-to-the-owner/240/

So when the whole community cooperated we ended returning big ammount of that summ to Klee, i'm happy for that :)

He also sent 217.5096BTC  :o

So, if you don't mind sharing, how did you come to that agreement?

This is an expected result.  For a while now all the BTC coming out of bitmixer will be "tainted" by the stolen coins.  That is, if you believe "taint" means anything at all.  That is like saying this $100 bill in your pocket was used by several people in the past and one of those people used it to buy some drugs.  Is the $100 you have in your pocket "tainted" by the crime several owners ago?  No.  It is just a $100 bill - it is fungible.

However, as a point of fact, the BTC you received from bitmixer are not "the stolen coins" or even "parts of the stolen coins".  They are UTXOs that happen to be traceable in whole or in part though various transactions back to the original UTXOs that were taken from klee.  So this question of "stolen coins" and "taint" is not as clear cut as some in this thread want it to be.

Assuming BTC are fungible then you have nothing to worry about.

A previous post likened the entire operation of the bitmixer to this:  a thief gives someone $1,000,000 in cash and this person turns around and gives the thief a different $1,000,000 in cash, maybe in different denominations, maybe minus a fee.

Now in this transaction did the thief "wash" his ill gotten gains?  NO.  He still has $1,000,000 (minus the fee) in ill gotten gains.

Did the person that "made change" for him do anything wrong.  NO.  They started with $1,000,000 in cash that they got from working hard, selling products and services, etc. and ended up with $1,000,000 plus maybe some sort of fee.  Why did he charge a fee?  Because it takes a long time to count $1,000,000 in cash given that the largest bill in circulation is only $100.  But I digress.

The point is that changing out one bunch of cash for another bunch of cash does not in anyway "launder" the money.  To launder money the thief has to be able to show that the money came from a legit source, enterprise, business, etc.  Also, making change does not in any way hide the crime.  In this case the thief started with $1,000,000 in ill gotten gains and ended up with $1,000,000 minus the fee in ill gotten gains - money laundering has not taken place.  Upon finding the thief with their money the authorities would have their man and the stolen money.  The fact the cash is not the same cash he took is not material.  The only thing that might be considered for claw back might be the fee.  However, if the thief bought a hamburger with some of the money would they go try to get it back from McDonalds?

I put a big bounty finding him - 43% of the stolen Bitcoins (the amount I could retrieve).
For 1170btc this is about 500btc.

And maybe some personals reason on his side, not sure about that but I think he had some regrets on what he did to me.
The amount was so big that it would be acceptable for him to sacrifice part of the loot so he has both his conscience right and feel less stressed that everybody chase him.

Nope, I pointed out earlier that ethics went out the window once he stole your btc. If he was a moral person and wanted to right the wrong, he would have returned the whole thing. You either return all of it, or none of it. But the fact that he returned just a small fraction under the condition that you LOCK the previous thread means that he does not want the investigation to continue, in fear of being caught.

I think u may consider sharing 43% of the recovered coins to those who helped to corner the thief.

So returning some is equally as immoral as returning none.
I disagree.

Depends on his moral alignment.

Klee sorry for your loss - I have had several things stolen from me, and you feel like shit! We all make mistakes, even though your mistake, could cost you more than money could re pay. {Your time invested to get all that coin}

The fact of the matter is, this kind of thing, no matter who's fault it is, puts a lot of negative spotlight on crypto currency as a community. {Possible investors, see this as a threat, and decide not to invest etc. etc.}

The Crypto Currency community should stand together, and fight this with all they have got, to show possible investors, what remedial actions could be taken to recover lost/hacked/stolen coins.  

Good luck, I hope this person turns around and gives back what he has stolen for your sake and for the good of this community.

How do u relate this address with thief's address ?

Good to hear you got some BTC back!!  :o

Again, what are you talking about?  Show us some transactional proof of your belief.

The thief has been traced back to the GoDaddy domain ;)

Whois privacy is going to be over with a formal complaint and we are going to get Credit Card info.

We'll move unless 90% is returned to Klee by next 24 hour.

Thank u Mr. 'Hacker' :)

GIVE ME BACK MY MONEY!

YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE CLEVER?

I MADE BIG PATIENCE IN ORDER TO FOOL YOU UNTIL I HAVE YOU.

WHAT YOU STOLE (1170BTC + 10M NXT) IS ABOUT 2000BTC

I WANT 1400 1000BTC IN THE NEXT 24H.

BOUNTY WAS NEVER OVER

EDIT: Probably the NXT were dumped for about 400BTC. So he stole about 1600BTC. He returned 462. He will still have more than 100btc profit...

Ha, hacker was quite the fool.

Which domain was hacker tracked back to?

Exactly what I said....

Smaragda invested during CapitalistCoin IPO, but hacker donated to Smaragda what he lost in this IPO
(then he got 0,02 Btc back from Smaragda, because he got more than he should have to gain)
https://blockchain.info/address/1Grv7NH3xDetLBBD5J1Y9NvxMw4znTCAe9
hacker pays to Smaragda:
https://blockchain.info/address/1BaeBqXoa1ZkAnd5TzJvPaAg9zXbZMPtmA

or here you can see:
https://blockchain.info/address/1Grv7NH3xDetLBBD5J1Y9NvxMw4znTCAe9
IPO payment:
2014-04-07 15:15:49
1Grv7NH3xDetLBBD5J1Y9NvxMw4znTCAe9
to:
16qCNxjUf64ejHQ4wh9it7Lbb2AVBduGmS 1.00071442 BTC
and the hacker donated a Bitcoin to this victim here:
https://blockchain.info/address/1BaeBqXoa1ZkAnd5TzJvPaAg9zXbZMPtmA

etc..

I will share the 43% of the rest of the Bitcoins I claim (1400) and biggest part will go to RocketSingh!

I emailed Jon Matonis to help me move legally in the US.

lol

I am so freakin busy these days I could not keep up with everything mate!!!

Wow great job and that is a sizable lump of bounty you earned. Although, don't celebrate yet until the btc is returned to the rightful wallet.

UNLOCKED

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=686275.msg7862951#msg7862951

You are right, I don't celebrate the BTC returned but that I found him.

Made so much patience these days..

And what is going to happen now? To the hacker and to the bitcoins?

24h to return them or I will move legally in the US

He is at the moment in the USA?

What will you do there?

Godaddy is in US

I see now where you are confused.  You are looking at BTC coming from the mixer and thinking they are coming from the hacker.  These are just the old stolen BTC being sent out to mixer customers.  These are not the BTC the hacker/thief has now.  Old news.

https://blockchain.info/address/1BaeBqXoa1ZkAnd5TzJvPaAg9zXbZMPtmA is a mixer address.

This transaction is funny.  Someone sent 0.02333658 back to the mixer intermediate address so those BTC are most likely stuck forever in limbo (unless the mixer goes through and sweeps them to their own account someday).

https://blockchain.info/tx/c44a4a795c644bb7ff146f8e4c7822a8d53e1993af428f3a785f00ab06b70c49

Yepo.

Bravo Klee.
I had a feeling that you will do just that. That why I suggested earlier not to post anything what can discourage hacker from sending the other 217btc ( and nxt)
Thief cannot be pardoned, but it must be played smart.

Oops hand shown too early, bye bye to those nxt.

Which NXT? I got the 3M frozen nxt back

What if the credit card info isn't tracked back to the stealer, but a collaborator?
You showed your hand before the funds are secured.

Collaborator will take us to him

Remember that until the Bitcoins are returned there is still a 500 BTC bounty.
I wouldn't want to be in the collaborators shoes...  ;)

I agree that not everything must be made public, but showing that he's closing in adds great pressure to return the Bitcoins.

Hmm, maybe I have missed something here ,but how concrete is the trace between the funds and this godaddy account?

I suggest to anyone being hacked from 2010 onwards and lost coins to help me...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BqLTqLcurqI/T9bToofMz_I/AAAAAAAADV4/I1AKOzMGfYU/s320/mrburns_excellent1.JPG

coward hacker + community pressure on coward hacker + not willing to drop it until result = one fucked hacker

Sad the hacker will only see his new child again when he ends up in the cell next to him  >:( :D

Yeah, no sympathy from me. Not that I actually believe the newborn story. It's just a pathetic coward begging not to be hurt, once he realised he wouldn't get away with it and what he did wouldn't go away.

Please nail this a-hole to the cross klee and make this a good news story for the bitcoin community, in the end. We're all here in support.

i wont forget you for the reward...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpdb-d02mss

I have hoped something good will come out of this event, which yesterday seemed like an idea to have a genuine mixing service for privacy, where the owners identify themself and sits on the funds for a week or something, in case of claims of theft. You know, a service which is acting legitmately. I was kinda surprised by the amount of support for those that don't  :o We need more good players in bitcoin.

That you got back more BTC, the NXT and are closer to nailing this guy is a very happy chance in circumstances :)

Hopefully you'll have the cowardly hacker in your grasp soon. If he doesn't want his life trashed completely, he should think about returning every stolen coins immediately and perhaps with interest for the inconvenience  :D

Hackers only move at this point is to give back virtually everything and hope that Klee is the type of person that is too busy to bother with the legalities and time it will take to pursue the hacker through the criminal justice system...If Klee wants the hacker nailed to a wall, then the hacker is screwed no matter what...

If I were the hacker, I would give the BTC back asap to try and thwart the move to have my identity exposed...once his identity is exposed, then it would be easy to move on the hacker in the justice system...

Of course, if it were my coins, I wouldn't stop on the hacker no matter what...and he would be lucky if he just got to spend 30 years in prison...

What if it was a stolen credit card that was used to pay for the domain?

I lost $1k in BTC because the .dat did not save to my drive properly :( Yes, that is sad I know I could not retrieve them because I had no way of doing it, I tried everything to get it back but nothing worked... Lost cause now.

That could be a plus for me legally

That would mean even more evidence against the thief that he is just a fucking thief and nothing more...he will probably get his ass raped in prison, and in US prison i belive there will be alot of horny black criminals (not meaning to be racist by this sentence).

I am prepared to facilitate legal proceedings as well if the money is not returned promptly.
The community stands with you.

Interesting story here. How much BTC have you recovered total?

This is kinda scary. You seem like a knowledgeable person and not a computer illiterate. I fail to understand how did he did this, if running a Linux machine or if running a Win machine with MBAM, a firewall and common sense. Did you remember doing anything out of the ordinary? I would like to know if you've managed to isolate the mistake you may have done.

yeah like running a script, installing something an apps probably a week before the hacker stole your coins?

It was just plain foolishness.  The wallet was in dropbox with password in the same folder in a plain text file.  Go read the original thread if you want more info.

How can we merge the two threads?

maybe lock one of them with a link post to the active thread in the locked one?
Im not sure that is what you want...

Just read the updates,  did the hacker actually send the 462 back, also kudos to RocketSingh for locating the guy.

Just a suggestion once you do find out the actual hacker get Roger Ver to tweet about it again, just like the first time.  

Get some more media coverage on this, it may very well be the first time a hacker has been caught with a theft of this magnitude in Bitcoin

In another thread kee said that GoDaddy domain is irellevant :(
I agree with full forensic inspection and to find an attack vector hacker used.
I guess that plaintex file on db had other passwords too among the wallet pass.

Probably the best soulution, just make sure that your post is last and it forwards to another thread.

I doubt the hacker knew just how much he was going to be able to get away with when he got the credentials to klees wallet, I think he really just got lucky and is probably not very good a "covering his tracks"

I think that the hacker really doesn't know how much evidence was left behind and decided to return part of the coins to be a little more certain that he would not be caught.

1170 BTC is very very huge amount..

The hacker is a noob one and probably stupid, he just got lucky, the groups of hackers who hack exchanges dont "negotiate".

So we have an advantage here

PM a mod to do it. I'm a mod on an SMF forum and I have this ability, so they likely do as well. I would PM malevolent or one of the global mods. Seems better than locking one.

Probably a dropbox employee, lol.

Why would he give anything back?  Unless he was giving the whole amount back minus the bounty, which would actually make some sense..  re; you offered this reward, i am giving it all back now minus the reward, be more careful in the future, best of luck, thanks for all the chips

I'm hearing a lot about Dropbox associated with compromised data. Is there any central place where this is being discussed? Is there anything credible that points to employees compromising accounts?

So why dont he make his moves outside and get this woman as fast as possible so people here can stop making maps on the blockchain.

Well there is potentially an upside to negotiating as even if you cannot trace the bitcoin from point A to point B, it would still be possible to watch for large transactions from known bitmixer addresses that happened after the hack took place to try to determine where the hacker's mixed bitcoin are. This is much more advanced that what is available on blockchain.info and would only be possible with large amounts.

Since the max delay that can be used with bitmixer is 12 hours and we know the ~time the coins were sent to bitmixer we could look at all the output addresses from known bitmixer addresses and look for combinations of outputs that equal to the amount of the stolen coins +-5%. I don't know how much business that bitmixer does per day, but I doubt that it is thousands of bitcoin per day.

He is a troll ignore him..

You have been reported troll  ;)

Sad to see that amount stolen, I feel sorry for klee.

I need that bounty, so I will help search for this ish.

Hacker definitely scared; asking for thread to be closed.  Go get him.

Can't you see the IP address of the person who accessed your Dropbox? If not, you could probably email support asking that question too.

@haploid23 lock this thread please, I will open a new self moderated one!

As per klee's request in PM and in here, I've locked the thread. We don't need 2 concurrent ones running anyways since he has unlocked the other one.