Bitcoin Forum

https://craftystaci.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/loaf-of-dough-by-style-baggage.jpg?w=644&h=482

Introduction

Ahoy! So it looks like the high PoS markets are pretty quiet atm, so in the interest of getting discussion going again, I'll just start talking out into the dark until someone hears me and tells me to quiet down ;)

Crypto Background

I originally got into crypto in the last BTC rush. My original strategy was "buy everything," and I had positions in well over 1000 coins and crypto assets at that time. While I still think a more abbreviated version of that strategy, say equal amounts of top 50 coins by market cap could work, I've moved to high PoS coins and several active positions.

I only recently gobbled down bigish chunks of high PoS coins like HBN. While BTC has gone down in price since then, the Satoshi price level of HBN is kinda where it was ago almost a year ago, so it seemed like as good a time as any to just jump right in.

Part of the reason for my willingness to just randomly purchase willy-nilly is that I've wanted to do a high PoS portfolio for months. As a matter of fact, I remember seeing the old HBN website and thread with the vagrant grilling a sausage or something as the coin logo and being really interested in the almost weekly 2% interest rate.

A Few Notes

Okay, the thread is moderated from the start on the off chance any spamming, fudding, and/or trolling occurs. Assume that I own all coins mentioned and even coins not mentioned. I'm not doing this as a public service or anything, so if you end up losing your 0.1, 1, or even 10 BTC to something I mention, it's not my fault. I'm pretty lazy and may end up dropping this at any time if it starts to resemble more "work" than "fun."

Special Thanks

Full credit to people like TokyoGhetto and StakeHunter for turning me on to this investment style. Also thanks to high PoS coin creators and developers such as Tranz, Presstab, Thundertoe, Unick, Palmdetroit, and others for their continuing contributions to the high PoS investment arena.

Also, if anyone wants to piggyback and start and/or continue a high PoS investment journal in this thread, you are welcome to do so. You'll probably update more frequently and provide better analysis than me anyway :P

General Thoughts on Crypto

At this stage of the game, crypto is a minefield. While it would have been nice to put a few thousand in BTC when it was sub $1, we operate in the here and now and that doesn't seem likely to happen again, so rather than whining about it, we should try to see how to best operate moving forward.

For all the features being released on the market, at their core, most coins operate towards the idea of being a store of value/unit of exchange. But let's be reasonable here: are we going to use Milkcoin for milk and Breadcoin for bread? Expanding further out, why do I even need 10-15 different types of cryptos in my wallet to use as transaction currencies?

Now, the argument can be made that there are a lot of different credit card and bank transfer companies. However, I would make the point that while there is a lot of variety in operators, there is still only one currency being transmitted, local fiat. I think crypto will operate in the same way in the long run, with only at most a handful of coins being in common use. In the interim, however, who knows what will happen? I mean, we've got a long way to go to reach the levels of the Dotcom bubble that saw TRILLIONS of dollars in paper wealth vanishing. Much excitement ;D

General Thoughts on High PoS

High PoS coins to me sidestep the issue of trying to be compete in the very crowded "next Bitcoin" market by being something completely different: crypto debentures or bonds.

Let's look at a few aspects of high PoS coins and think about them in relation to bonds.

Coins pay a PoS rate that is fixed in the short term while their face value can fluctuate based on market sentiment. Think receiving a 2% stake while the market value of the coin reduces by 8% at the same time.

Coins can have their PoS change based on the original parameters of the code as a reaction to current and future market sentiment. For example, fewer people stake, making the stake difficulty go down and the PoS rate higher to entice people to stake, sort of how bonds entice investors with higher rates than competing offerings.  

Sentiment and ability to "pay" via PoS can be seen in network strength. I could go on with details, but I can't think of any more clever ones at the moment and I think the point is clear.

High PoS's Place in Crypto

While I don't think for a second any high PoS coin will supplant Bitcoin or whatever becomes a member of the dominant crypto CURRENCY market, I do believe there is a place for high PoS within the crypto ASSET market.

Taking the debenture analogy a little further, high PoS coins act as multi-form assets. You own a share of the total coins outstanding, like a stock, but at the same time, you are guaranteed a payout of assets, like a bond. It's like super preferred stock, or something altogether completely different.

Anyway, let's just provide a use case for a high PoS coin. Say BTC or some dominant crypto's price has stabilized fairly well. You have spending that you want to do in the future, but you want a return now due to the time value of money. Where do you park your money? Wouldn't an older, stable high PoS coin be a viable option?

TRANZ-TAB-TEK TRIFECTA

Anyway, this is getting pretty long at this point, so rather than just talking to myself further, I'll try to start the ball rolling with a discussion of some core high PoS assets that I call the "Tranz-Tab-Tek Trifecta," consisting of Hyperstake (HYP), Tekcoin (TEK), Bottlecaps (CAP), and HoboNickels (HBN). A brief discussion of each follows.

http://hyp.cryptocoinexplorer.com/image/button.png HYPERSTAKE (HYP) - 750% - PURE POS

HYP is one of the newer high PoS coins, but it's notable for a few reasons. The first is that it has the highest stated PoS rate of any coin at 750%, even beating out stalwart Tekcoin (TEK)'s 500%. However, while I worried about the effects of compounding on the coin at the start, it seems that a lot of thought has gone into taking advantage of the coin's block times and staking parameters to make it where the long-run compounding of the coin will be close to the stated APR, and not some crazier level of inflation.

Developer Presstab has a financial background and I've learned a lot talking with him on the IRC about how things like max block rewards and daily number of blocks can be used to limit inflation. Co-founder David Latapie is also heavily involved in Monero (XMR), so there could be some potential interplay with that as well.

An interesting thing I see in HYP is that, due to it being a forked launch off of Truckcoin (TRK), a lot of the current HYP coins may be "lost" and not currently staking. I'm curious how the tradeable number of HYP's compare to the total 17M+ shown on the blockexplorer.

http://www.coinssource.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Tekcoin.png TEKCOIN (TEK) - 500% - POS/POW

Before HYP, TEK was one of my favorite high PoS coins. The only issue was that it was, and still sort of is, difficult to get a large position without moving the market. Recently, there were some issues with hard forks and staking, causing a high volume of low priced coins to appear on Comkort.

TEK is supposed to pay 40% every 30 days, making it one of the longest waiting periods of any high PoS coin. However, competing for blocks has caused that to drop to around 20%, which is still generous, but not as high.

I think even if the stake is permanently reduced, TEK could have value since it is one of the older PoS coins (1+ year old) and the current number of coins outstanding isn't that high (2.2M vs HYP's 17.6M). I also am more partial to the 30 day waiting period since it rewards holders vs traders.

http://cap.cryptocoinexplorer.com/image/button.png BOTTLECAP (CAP) - 200% - POW/POS

CAP is an older coin that was recently taken over by HBN developer Tranz. Both it and HBN are well over 1 year old, making them some of the oldest actively developed altcoins. Tranz is also considered one of the most prolific developers in the high PoS space, pioneering such developments as multiwallets and oddities such as Raspberry Pi minting.

Once Tranz announced he was taking over CAP, the price level rose rather decently and, more surprisingly, there was a HUGE buy wall that was actually guzzling up CAPs. I recall it was 30 BTC - 50 BTC, but I have no idea how much it actually bought. Regardless, if they haven't dumped, there is someone who still owns a TON of CAPs. Maybe it's Tranz ;)

I'm curious as to what interplay there will be between HBN and CAP, if there is one at all. Tranz has stated that he will be pushing developments to HBN first, and CAP will receive updates second.

http://hbn.cryptocoinexplorer.com/image/button.png HOBONICKEL (HBN) - 100% - POW/POS

HBN is the stalwart in this group and was the focus of TokyoGhetto's investment journal. From the start of that journal until now, HBN has had a roughly x10 increase in value from 5k to 50k sat and is now back to around where it started.

At this point I'm a little talked out since I've sort of stolen HBN's thunder and mentioned some of it's features/concepts in other coins.

Also, I was having 3 paragraphs for each coin, so my OCD is requiring me to do the same for this one even though there really isn't much value in this last block o' text :)

Alright, so HYP, CAP, and HBN have the nice cryptocoinexplorer.com block explorers and rich lists. I've gone ahead and confirmed my addresses on these coins, so if anyone is nosy in the peanut gallery, they want keep track of my every move. In regards to TEK, the block explorer seems to be working, but the rich list isn't, so you'll just have to take my word on the address.

HYP - X
TEK - X
CAP - X
HBN - X

This should be fun  8)

PS - TEK is not 480%, it is 500%. This 480% is caused by rounding errors from marketing slogans. It went from "TEK is 40% per month" (really 41.09%) to "TEK is 40% * 12 = 480% per year!!". 

For the sake of providing everyone with correct info (I am hoping this journal gets traffic), I would recommend to change your post to say 500% annual, and 41%/month.

Great write-up bud! A very good read

hBN has one advantage - many merchants

Come on now.... HBN's main advantage is Tranz, one of the few crazy smart devs that hasn't sold out to a P&D coin.

Yeah, as stated in TG's investment journal, Tranz has a 2 YEAR plan for HBN. Isn't that like 50 years in crypto (I don't know what is the goofy conversion of the week for that)?

In regards to merchants, that's one thing these high PoS have on the vast majority of other altcoins. You surely can't speculate on something that's only claim to fame is that it can be used to buy things in the long-run. Why use Catcoin or Mooncoin or Leafcoin or whatever to buy something when BTC, or *gasp* credit cards will do just as well?

It doesn't matter if high PoS coins are picked up by merchants. They have at least some residual level of value due to the nature and power of their stake. I mean, taking things to a goofy level, if there was something that you could put 1 cookie in and get 1.4 cookies out (kinda like TEK) in 30 days, does that have a value on some level? Does it have more value if cookie can be replaced with simply any altcoin?

I almost feel the Wall Street types would have an easier time speculating on high PoS, somewhat goofy coin names notwithstanding. I'm sure they've seen things like the Auroracoin dump and want nothing to do with that, and that initial pump had something like merchant adoption as at least one component of the mania.

Thanks for writing this!

I do think you are missing an important central piece of info for this journal though: you should talk some of your numbers, namely how many coins you bought and then your ongoing stake returns.

That's coming ;)

Okay, so I've updated my addresses in an earlier post so I guess I'll have stalkers now who wonder why I do this and that at every step of the game.

Anyway, I thought of how to track this and, for the time being, I'll be reporting BTC in, and average cost. The nice thing about high PoS is that the coins can mint for you to (1) sell for income or (2) leave to compound and reduce average cost further.

The format is coin name : BTC in : coins owned : average cost

HYP : 1.6 : 347,329 : 0.00000461
TEK : 7.25 : 42,975 : 0.00016870
CAP : 4 : 139,102 : 0.00002876
HBN : 7.6 : 132,090 : 0.00005754

So as you can see here, I was pretty lucky as to when I started building my high PoS positions. While I did have some TEK and CAP before, I really doubled down once I saw some really cheap HYP and HBN, said wth, and went ahead and started the high PoS portfolio that I always dreamed of.

The only position that I'm really at a paper loss in atm is CAP. Like I said before, I was buying back when the BTC whale was eating up orders. At the time the market caps were roughly:

TEK: $350k
CAP: $200k
HBN: $450k

In most cases, I would hope for these and other high PoS coins to trend back up going forward. None of these stated market caps were at their peak positions, and the beauty of any of these is that the orders books are typically thin enough that, in the short term at least, a little volume eating into the sell side can rapidly move the price if the buy side builds support on the way up.

I know TEK has flirted with $700k in market cap. As far as I can tell, there has never been a coordinated pump on it. HBN had 2 pumps on it, one of which may have sent it close to $1M in market cap, but even before that it seemed to trend to around $500k. CAP is too recent to really discuss aside from the fact there was that whale wall.

I don't really buy into technical analysis all that much. Shoulders, flags, polka dots, I don't know. I just like how you can see panic in all the other coin threads, these high PoS coins are typically pretty quiet. I could go bust, but then again, I still think they have some sort of residual value as long as there is something like BTC.

Thanks for articulating the matter of staking coins. I'm fairly new to crypto, and after the dismal month of July scams, began to look for high-staking senior coins. It just makes sense, and like you said, are like owning stocks and bonds in one.

I will continue to read the posts here, some of most intelligent sharing on the forums  :)

CrazyLoaf relayed his thanks to others in the POS arena.
I have to say that I was also lucky catching TG's investment journal which led me to HBN specifically.
Have a read through it from the start. It is well worth the time. Pity that the thread ended badly...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=406112.0

PS: Thank Crazy for this thread. Very well written and well worth anyone's time to read.

Very interesting, keep the posts coming, interesting read so far.

Done. Yeah any sort of recommendations keep them coming. Right now, I'll just be focusing on these 4 coins, but may discuss some other ones as well. Aside from alliteration, these 4 (excluding HYP, but it's dev has been active in crypto for almost as long) are some of the oldest coins out there and represent a good range of quoted max PoS rates.

We have 100% - 750% represented. I've noticed that the 100% and below range is getting a little crowded, and there are probably another 10-20+ coins or so that provide stakes higher than the 25% needed to see the effects of compounding. I'm a little more skeptical of these, especially since some seem to have added high PoS after the fact.

Speaking of TEK, I noticed you posted in their thread that difficulty has fallen enough to where you can stake at 40% again. I wonder if the coin will be able to do this consistently going forward.

My expectations is that the NVCS will kick in in waves, yielding some stakes less than 500% and some at 500% depending on where in the cycle you stake.

Yeah, my interest in high PoS was rekindled after looking at all the falling coins as of late. The crypto markets are maturing, and you can't just slap an animal on a coin and call it a day. A lot of high-priced coins have turned out to be falling knives, and barring speculation, there isn't much reason to hold onto them. That's why you see such painful swings.

Heck, I'm looking at the top volume coins on Bittrex today and Gnosis has 126 BTC volume and is showing a paper loss of MINUS 96.8% today! I don't know how accurate those numbers are, but I know we have definitely seen a rise in coins whose price dies a day or so after listing. Anyone remember Syscoin?

Actually, since you mentioned HBN, let's use that and TEK as an example of what high PoS can do for a falling portfolio. There were issues with the HBN wallet on Cryptsy, so who knows how likely this scenario is, but let's say you bought all your HBN at 40k sat May 16th. That's well above any historical high except for the very peak. Today, HBN, is roughly 6k sat. So right there, that is an 85% loss on paper, more if you look at the fact that BTC has fallen in value during that time.

We have had 4 months since that time. That's 12 staking periods. Compounded, that means every 1 HBN is now worth 1.27 HBN. So say we bought 1,000 HBN, we would now have 1,270 HBN. That makes our paper loss 58%, still a bad loss, but we still own the coin and can stake to positive returns. The compounded PoS on HBN can make up for a 50% loss in 1 year if the price merely steady after the 50% loss.

TEK is more interesting. Let's keep in mind the 40% PoS. The 85% loss can turn into profit in 6 months.

I might be opening a position in a POS stake too.... Something like this is safer than buying into hashlets, as you own the coins. I'll let you guys know if I go through with this.

HBN has less than 10 merchants. ORB has over than 80 merchants. Feel the difference.

ORB isn't high PoS.

Also I would like to point out, as CrazyLoaf has a few times, that merchants don't matter.  For example, although ORB has 80 merchants, and according to coinmarketcap has traded $110 USD worth in the last 24 hours. HBN has a smaller amount of merchants and has traded $229 in 24 hours. HYP has absolutely no merchants and has traded $2,900 in 24 hours.

Having merchants is just another way to dump your coins, they end up on the same exchanges, traded for the same BTC, but the only difference is that the user is charged a fee for someone else to do it for them.

But nevertheless, many crypto users find it very important that a coin has a few merchants that accept it. For me, I just use btc for those types of transactions.

ORB has an interesting distribution with the 1 ORB for every 20 ORB held, but I honestly was too stupid to be able to break my blocks up without having to wait a minute or so between each send to myself. I may take a look at it again, but I like my breaking and recombining to be easy.

ORB is higher PoS than HBN definitely. It is fixed reward PoS, therefore APR depends on difficulty. It can be as high as 500% compound per annum, though it's likely to be between 200% and 300% in reality.

You say merchants don't matter. What do you see a primary purpose of a coin? P&D on exchanges? ORB/BTC holds a steady exchange rate of 5k sat. at Cryptsy for the past month. There were a few sporadic high volume fluctuations, but the market held. According to your theory, these 80+ merchants should drive the price down by dumping their sales. It doesn't happen.

CrazyLoaf, it has been explained before. Generate maybe 5 to 10 addresses for your staking needs. Use the Coin Control and 'Add recipient' button to split large inputs into these addresses.

+1

I'd like to add that all my POS coins are generating about 0,3-0,4 BTC/month at actual prices ;) . Well i invested some good amount of BTC in POS coins , but it's worth it in any case.

You want to give me some of that profit so I can start my own journal haha xD

This is pretty cool. There aren't too many other passive investments out there that can operate like this and, at the same time, give you the potential for huge upswings in value.

Let's say you get $250 a month. What else can passively generate that? Assuming 3% annual dividends, you'd need almost a $100k stock portfolio to generate that. You could move a little more high risk and with higher costs and invest in a rental property. Okay you buy a $25k property (good luck finding one that isn't a dump and/or doesn't require a ton of work). Hell netting $250, by the rule of thumb of 50% of rent going to costs, would require a $500 a month rent, so let's just bump up the home price to $75k - $100k.

The fact of the matter is, for the lack of effort, you're not going to find something that can generate as much free-cash flow as these high PoS coins, and they have 24/7 hour markets to boot where you can unload them at almost no transaction costs.

@mtwelve
I builded my stash in about 8-9 months and in this time i let all POS blocks to compound. So, if you start now after 9-10 months you'll have (maybe) same profits :)

Yes that would be right then, I have never staked ORB so don't know what size of blocks actually stake in a timely manner. And then size of block would determine the PoS rate.

Yes I am sticking by my "merchants don't matter theory".  What is the purpose of a coin?  Well for me and a lot of other people, I think the answer is fun. Let's be honest, these high PoS coins are not the next bitcoin, or litecoin, etc. They are craft coins that gather respectable communities, that give input and help with the infrastructure of the coin. Having merchants is nice, but it is not the main feature of a coin, it is more of a marketing play. There are too many coins out there that are way too serious, which is what I and many others have loved about HYP, it is a place to come relax FUD free.

I suppose in my view of coin economics, the 3 primary drivers of demand for coins are: speculative value, community value, and novelty value.

Regarding ORB and value being stable while having merchants.. Is there any way to tell how much has been used for merchant transaction?

+100
Totally agree with you :)

Last year when BTC rose up to 1000$ i made some good profits and about half of my BTC invested in POS. I knew about Hobo and thought it's a good investment. After TG launched his Journal, i even invested more .

There's nothing wrong with a coin being an avenue to more BTC or whatever the dominant crypto is in the future. A lot of these alts already function like that with a large pump and subsequent dump to BTC. High PoS avoids the constant new coin creation cycle to get more BTC by letting it be a part of the coin ecosystem. High PoS just tries to "stick to the cooking" and not enter the technological arms race we see in other spheres of crypto.

I don't think CoinPayments are going to disclose this information.

Oh goody! Ill get to it :)

ghostlander, or anyone familiar with ORB. About how long would a 24/7 running daemon take to stake a block of 20 ORB on average?

ORB POS diff is pretty high, i had about 2k ORB in many small blocks (25-40 coins) and weight of 20k coin days age (or something, quite confusing term) and it minted about 3-4 POS per day /1 ORB each (that is 4 ORB/day). After 3 weeks it has become boring and i dumped all my ORB. I prefer x% after y days , than many small transactions everyday.

Sure you prefer to start up a client once or twice a month to collect interest, but you don't help the network much this way.


When the PoS difficulty was 0.01 to 0.02, it was about 10 days. Now the difficulty is 0.02 to 0.03, so it takes longer. Maybe 12 days. Larger inputs stake faster.

So what's the difference between a coin that generates POS blocks every 10 days and ORB (or any other high diff POS coin) that stakes at 10-12 days. Where is the "help" to the network????
I'm confused.......  ??? ???

If you keep your wallet offline almost always and generate a single block with an interest, that's one situation. If you keep the wallet online 24/7 and generate 10 blocks, that's another situation. In the former case, you don't help to distribute the block chain and relay transactions, don't create many blocks which is the most important work. The network is less secure against 51% attacks with most stakers offline.

As far as I can tell, ORB pays out a fixed amount (1 ORB per block(s) of 20 ORB). On it's face, that seems to be 5% let's say every 10 days. However, as some people have reported, the system likes larger blocks to stake, but you're limited to that earlier reward amount, reducing your effective interest. The help to the network is giving your computer power to keep track of transactions. That's why a wallet has to be open and downloading blocks to "stake" in the first place.

Really, the fact that people seem to be competing like mad for blocks and then some people have to have larger blocks to get the reward doesn't make the coin as interesting to me. Any time spent recombining or splitting blocks is time destroying stake age. I'll take another look at ORB, but I am a creature of habit and the NVCS inspired coins seem easier to work with and not lose too much time on.

If I recall, Presstab in HYP is actually working on a system where the blocks automatically resize and optimize based on your wallet practices. I think for coins that take PoS seriously, this is the future, especially as HYP, CAP, and HBN institute max stake subsidies to better reward those that protect the network.

I was playing around with some numbers since I was bored. I didn't look at the effect of compounding since I feel that, especially in the case of Tranz and Presstab, they have a better handle on avoiding obscene inflation than I do. Based on the PoS rates, I was trying to figure out what amount of BTC it would take to generate either 4 or 1 BTC a month per coin.

http://hyp.cryptocoinexplorer.com/image/button.png HYPERSTAKE

*9 days min*

40.58 stake periods per year
18.48% stake per period
3.33 stake periods per month
61.54% per month

*30 days max*

12.18 stake periods per year
61.58% stake per period/month

Need 6.5 BTC worth to generate 4 BTC monthly
1.625 BTC for 1 BTC

http://www.coinssource.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Tekcoin.png TEKCOIN

12.175 stake periods per year

30 days / 20% - 20 BTC / 5 BTC

30 days / 30% - 13.33 BTC / 2.67 BTC

30 days / 40% - 10 BTC / 2.5 BTC

http://cap.cryptocoinexplorer.com/image/button.png BOTTLECAPS

*15 days min*

24.35 stake periods per year
8.21% stake per period
2 stake periods per month
16.42% per month

*45 days max*
8.12 stake periods per year
24.63% stake per period
0.66 stake periods per month
16.26% per month

Need 24.62 BTC to generate 4 BTC monthly
6.16 BTC for 1 BTC

http://hbn.cryptocoinexplorer.com/image/button.png HOBONICKELS

36.53 stake periods per year
2% stake per period
3 stake periods per month
6% per month

Need 66.67 BTC to generate 4 BTC monthly
16.67 BTC for 1 BTC

The interesting takeaway is that by just focusing on HYP, TEK, and CAP, you can *potentially* build a portfolio that *may* generate 3 BTC a month in stake while still being able to own the coins for roughly 10.5 BTC.

Let's just take BTC at $450, so $1,350. Look at that through the lens of a minimum wage job at $7.25. You've already able to replace it with change on the staking alone on a monthly basis (186 hours via stake vs 160 monthly work hours). 10.5 BTC is $4,725, giving you an effective ROI of around 30% monthly. Note that I didn't include any compounding effects and actually used a 30% stake rate on TEK vs the historical 40%, and a pretty cheap BTC level.

All of this points to a pretty good *gamble* on risk/return levels. Where else can you put in $4,725 and potentially walk away with $1,350? Then there is the added bonus of it being open to leverage on BTC as well. Say none of these coins every go anywhere price wise, but BTC goes back to $1k and volume remains more or less the same? Then your portfolio becomes $10k throwing off $3k monthly.

Let's look at this from the area of a higher earner. Landlords who work on their own properties usually use $50 an hour for their labor, depending on their location. Stakes pay an effective 27 hours, which I'm almost willing to bump up to 40 (reducing to $33.75 an hour, or an effective $67,500 yearly job) due to the fact that it's as close to passive as can be.

Just some thoughts. Could be all bullshit :P

What you wrote is obvious and makes sense.
But, if i have one HBN block that generates one POS after 10 days and one ORB block wich generates also one POS block after 10 days (because of the high diff).........where is THE DIFFERENCE???

P.S: all my wallets are open 24/7 and i have many blocks that enter in POS almost everyday.
P.S2: @ Crazyloaf
I think Tranz will add a "Max stake value of 500 coins" in HBN 1.5 wich is good for coin health. HYP already has a 1000 coins limit per POS block. This should avoid obscene inflation.

HBN has been my bread and butter since the beginning of this year. steady volume, good development and an active community. No pumpers or shills involved. I also hold HYP and TEK which is no secret since I love high interest PoS coins myself.

This journal looks good. Best of luck! I will definitely be reading it.

Good to see you Crazyloaf. Love your info here, its spot on. Your story sounds exactly like mine. When I started in Nov 2013, I mined everything I could. I really didnt know what I had and didnt have a clear investment strategy. I hold the following coins in order of prefrence:

1. Bottle caps (I only hold 6000 coins, but this is going to change really fast).
2. HyperStake (Remember guys withdraw in 1600 coin blocks or you waste the rest, if you dont know what this means , read their ann, its IMPORTANT!!). Proven , it DOES pay, and pay well!
3. Jackpot. Most are suprised to see this and even disagree. Heres the facts: 40% pos, trusted dev, senior coin, and a wallet that truly pays and it pays well every day, NEVER had a problem, held since the start and STILL mine today, active happy community, and very regular wallet updates, LOVE IT!!! Hold 7Mil
4. HBN
5. Super (Its on shaky ground right now, but POS rocks the house, and is 100% pos interest, prices are CHEAP right now, I get paid 1-6 coins about every 10 minutes holding 56k of coins worth 1200 sat each)
6. Boom. Now some of you might wonder on this one as the POS is only 9% , BUT it feels higher. I hold 46k coins and get about .7 of a coin about 20 times a day. They are about 1500 sat each. First dev to score a 5/5 POD.
7. Captcoin. POS is 30% interest. Professional dev, and many optomistic investors. A Newer coin, and prices low at 1400 sat
8. Stealth. 20% POS interest. More important features 5/5 POD, trades 250+ BTC in volume daily on Bittrex. Constantly goes up in price.
9. Sonic Screwdriver 20% interest. 5/5 POD. Professional dev with optomistic community. A Very new coin, but seems to have an exciting future.

Other ideas: Noble will soon go pos at 175%, note dev been saying this for MONTHS, but it only costs 7-8 sat at this time. Growth coin is another idea, but its seems like its dying, wouldnt put too much into this. (small community, not too active, but 100% pos interest)

I wanted to throw in my ideas because everyone has mentioned all the highest POS coins many times over, so I wanted to share my interests for you to consider to add to your portfolio.

I left out tek, because it seems the Dev can never get things straight. Wallets always seems on wrong fork, always problems with this or that. He has even said last week that the POS is really only 40%. The coins above I have personally gained some handsome payouts and can personally attest that they all work very well, and payout as advertised.

Vegas

I left out tek, because it seems the Dev can never get things straight. Wallets always seems on wrong fork, always problems with this or that. He has even said last week that the POS is really only 40%. The coins above I have personally gained some handsome payouts and can personally attest that they all work very well, and payout as advertised.

Vegas


well im glad you left it out, considering the year it has had you really missed the boat congratulations.

TEK was .00000401 nov 18th
actually .00000101 on nov 25th
has dropped under .00001 multiple times only to recover quickly and strongly.
now sitting at .00027... yeap horrible deal

^ Is that you Blundertoe?

yes that is me

Why use multiple addresses?

Because sendmany works this way.

Sendmany the rpc call eh? I suppose it just depends on how you want your coins organized, whether they are all kept in one address, or if they are spread through many addresses. But there is no actual benefit in terms of reward to having multiple addresses.

I sent you an email, did you get it? ^

Yes I did :)  I will be responding soon, my co-dev David Latapie would like to have some participation in the answers so I have sent it to him. Thanks mtwelve!

It saves time and allows to load these addresses into separate wallets should you need it.

Tossing this idea out here, but may just be me talking out of my ass, so let's see what you all think.

One thing I like about these high PoS coins is that the market caps on them is pretty low atm. I think the highest seemingly unpumped rate could be $635k for TEK, and then we could say that HBN tended towards $400k-$500k excluding the Mr. Net pump at a time when Cryptsy wallets were having issues.

Right now, HBN is $172,102 in market cap. Now, let's look from the perspective of hiring a developer. Would $150 hourly be too much or too little for Tranz? I don't think so, especially when you keep in mind that the rule of thumb is to charge x3 what you want your effective hourly rate to be. $50 an hour is $100k a year. Can we agree that Tranz is at minimum a $100k a year developer, especially compared to say a typical salaried job where maybe $25k-$30k of that salary would be pro-rated out in benefits, so a $75k a year job?

Alright, the current market cap assumes 1,147 hours of work at a $150 an hour rate, IF it was purely a development job. If Tranz said he has at least a 2 year plan on HBN, would it be safe to say at least 50 hours a month, or 12.5 hours a week is spent on HBN?

Of course, the reality is more complicated than that, but valuing a coin from a development costs perspective just crossed my mind and I wanted to share.

I think people in general have no idea how much work and time goes into many aspects of getting a coin running strong in code, or to market. I also don't think many coins are going far on one man team shows, there is just too much to do and too many areas to take care of.
Having a budget or getting paid would be amazing... want a new compile or something? bang easily done if you have money.

Right, which is why it blows my mind to see such low caps on these cheap coins. I don't even think you could get a restaurant for like $170k total. Looking at 6% ROI on that is $10,200. If that's the net, what is the gross? Crazy.

Made some changes to TEK in the earlier posts based on checking the forums some more as well as my experience with the coin as of late:

TEK is an old guard high PoS coin, meeting a few other alts in the "older than 1 year and active" category. The beauty of TEK is that it's 30 day minimum holding period to obtain juicy stakes makes choosing to hold or dump a tough decision, making it difficult for new people to buy a nice large block on exchanges. That's also part of the coin's power.

Recently, there was a hard fork and some staking changes based on difficulty where, since so many people had mature blocks, they set off difficulty calculations that made the stake less. Some people thought this was a permanent attribute, and ragedumped large amounts of the coins. One person in particular dumped 35k in one go, and I was able to pick up some of them.

However, I have personally staked some coins since the fork at 40%, and with new coins, I have tried to spread them out each day since PoS difficulty I'm sure will fluctuate in the short term. I think even if the stake is permanently reduced, TEK could have value since it is one of the older PoS coins (1+ year old) and the current number of coins outstanding isn't that high (2.2M vs HYP's 17.6M). I also am more partial to the 30 day waiting period since it rewards holders vs traders.

Yes I think this is something that TEK really has going for it... the 30 day period. It really requires a "proof of commitment", and for sure restricts the order books.

RE: Hyper: Need 6.5 BTC worth to generate 4 BTC monthly--> Are you saying an investment of 6.5 BTC would then yield 4 BTC/monthly?
If so..there is no other financial instrument like it anywhere, although I acknowledge the high risk.

Well, I am referring to Hyperstake (HYP) and not HYPER to be clear. It's currently traded on Poloniex, among other sites, but volume is highest there.

Based on the simple interest numbers, HYP pays roughly 61.5% per month. Now, all that means is that if you hold, you can get 61.5% more HYP, that is not necessarily your ROI. My calculation was based on HYP at a stable price. If you buy 6.5 BTC worth of HYP, stake it for one month, you will then have 10.5 BTC (6.5 * 1.615). You can then sell the 4 BTC staked and still have your 6.5 BTC principal.

Now, let's look at the scenario where HYP crashes. Then the staking can bring you to a breakeven point even if the price is permanently depressed as long as you can sell. Say you go buy 6.5 BTC worth of HYP, but then it loses 85% of it's value. Then you have roughly 1 BTC worth of HYP left. Follow this:

Stake 1 month, 1.000*1.615 = 1.615 BTC
Stake 2 month, 1.615*1.615 = 2.608 BTC
Stake 3 month, 2.608*1.615 = 4.212 BTC
Stake 4 month, 4,212*1.615 = 6.803 BTC

So what I've shown here is that even if the coin loses 85% of it's value the minute you buy it, even at that depressed price, you can potentially recover your initial investment in just 4 months of staking. Actually, it will take less time since HYP stakes every 9 days roughly, meaning there are 13.33 stake periods in 4 months, versus just 4.

If you have any questions let me know :)

Yes, I was referring to HYP  :) I appreciate the clarification on the scenario. I understand when buying HYP the coins must be withdrawn in increments of 1600 to generate maximum staking.

You don't have to withdraw in that fashion. You can actually withdraw them all to your wallet, and then use coin control to break up the blocks quickly. It's much easier than trying to withdraw over and over from exchanges.

Thanks CrazyLoaf, very helpful!

CrazyLoaf's CrazySteak(TM) 9/20/14 Update

Alright, table below:

ORG BTC   STAKE   NAME   BTC    COINS    AVG COST   CURRENT   VALUE   30-STAKE   SOLDVAL   SOLD#   AVG SELL   ROI   PLACE
4.65   750%   HYP   4.65    501,169    0.00000928   0.00003095   15.51   9.55    -       -      #DIV/0!   234%   3
7.70   500%   TEK   7.70    45,657    0.00016865   0.00020892   9.54   2.86    -       -      #DIV/0!   24%   ?
4.00   200%   CAP   4.00    142,170    0.00002814   0.00001735   2.47   0.40    -       -      #DIV/0!   -38%   9
7.60   100%   HBN   7.60    134,357    0.00005657   0.00006885   9.25   0.56    -       -      #DIV/0!   22%   7

It doesn't look like BTC Talk likes tables and I'm not fooling with the table command or uploading a pic.

Here's a discussion of what each column means:

- Org BTC: Original BTC amount invested; may get rid of this later
- Stake: % that the coin is rated on a yearly basis; compounded is higher
- Name: Coin Name
- BTC: BTC invested in the coin; considering having this be decreased as coins sold
- Coins: Number of coins I have of that type
- Average Cost: Average cost of that coin based on live invested BTC amount
- Current: Current sat value of the coin, taken as last trade on largest market (either Cryptsy or Poloniex in the case of HYP)
- Value: Current value of those coins
- 30-Stake: Simple calculated amount in BTC that should stake in 30 days; not compounded
- Sold Val: Value in BTC of sold coins
- Sold #: Number of coins sold
- Average Sell: Average sold price of coins
- ROI: Return on investment; should eventually be infinite if I extinguish BTC costs in
- Place: Where my address stands on the rich list

Some Additional Updates

Alright, so I've been thinking of how I want to actually operate this thing. I think right now I'll try to do an update about every 5 days. That way, it's not on a weekly or monthly basis and maybe we'll notice something interesting about timing. For example, do a lot of people sell on certain days of the week, once a month, etc.

StakeforSteak(TM)

In line with StakeHunter, I'll be doing a 25% send on stake amounts to exchanges to be sold. I was originally going to do 50%, but it seems there is some mental anchoring around 25%, and I kinda like my position in the HyperStake rich list - sorry David Latapie :P It's also a good idea to unlock profits over time and more in line with what high PoS is all about. Sell some of your stake to eat (steak)!

Actually, I'll just sell when I want :P But this is a viable alternative for people who want everything on autopilot :)

i missing ORB in your List.... tzzz ;)

Useful thread... will probably grow well.

Note Supercoin is absent from the list...  100% PoS, novel anon send system. Plans for a 150% PoS (50% bonus for 'Proof of Rich' ie wallet balance above certain threshold has higher stake rate).
SuperSend Trustless makes heavy use of multisig technology. The sender of the coin will randomly choose 2 middle service nodes from his service node list to help the anonymous transfer. Among the two nodes chosen, one provides the mixing service, and another provides a guarantee service (like a form of escrow, where cheating causes losses to the cheater, because they provide their own coins for the round-trip transaction, getting a small fee)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=736705.0

In making a similar journal, where should majority of funds go into?

When picking these coins, I started with looking at high PoS and also, truth be told, alliteration in the name ;D However, what ended up happening is I ended up seeing a value in these particular coins. What does a high PoS coin need:

- Decent market cap: Excluding CAP, all of these coins are in the top 100 on Coin Market Cap.
- Decent volume: HYP has the best of this atm, but both CAP and TEK have shown to have good volume when needed, that is, when there are good sell or buy orders and people are looking to move stake.
- Coin age: HBN and TEK are 1+ year old with pretty consistent developers; CAP is old too, but was taken over by a coin dev that has shown to be willing to help a lot of coins (Tranz) and also sort of stick with just working on right now 2 coins (CAP and HBN) versus jumping from PnD to PnD coin. HYP has Presstab, who has sort of done the same in terms of helping coins and now has one under his name as the main dev.
- Coin community: In reference to SUPER, I did plan on picking up 100k SUPER for their PoR, but it looks like some seemingly dumb things (PoD) have caused the coin price to collapse. I paid 0.66 BTC for 22k SUPER which is now worth 0.18 BTC or so. I think SUPER's anon features got people not interested in high PoS in the coin, but rather short term gains. There's also the fact that 100% PoS isn't that apt to absorb price crashes as easily. HBN gets a pass on this since it is an old guard coin, but the fact is that now there are a lot of coins around the 100% PoS level. I've considered getting positions in some, but it will moreso be for pure staking versus what I'm doing with my journal coins.

Really, the more I look at it, the more I like these journal coins versus others. Above the 200% stake level, I think I've covered everything. At 100% and below, yes there are coins that pay the same, but they seem to be more quiet (and high PoS is pretty quiet to begin with).

I would also add, technology matters.

HYP and Presstab are considering optimization techniques for blocks to automatically resize and recombine based on staking habits. That's a good angle that can only help one's PoS efficiency. I'm not one to break and recombine blocks to test. About the only times I've broken blocks are at the start to avoid max PoS caps and I'll do it when I start getting dust blocks.

I'd also Stake4Charity (HBN), HyperSend (HYP), Autosavings (CAP) is pretty big at this point for ease of use. I don't want to have to check and send a portion of my stake over manually to sell on exchanges, but I will just pop in an address and let it go and check the exchanges every day or so. It helps if there is a GUI implementation too, since the fewer RPC things, the better, since it can open the coins to wider use by non semi-technicals. You'd be surprised how uncomfortable people are doing seemingly simple things with a guide on a computer.

I'd really like TEK to add something like the above Stake4Charity since I could see myself using that, but not fooling with sending over manually. The nice thing about this is that you don't "feel" like you're losing coin age since the coins are sent just as their being created.

I think HYP has done a lot right in terms of high PoS:

- Community: IRC has almost 100 people in it at times.
- Features: GUI HyperSend (automatically send % of stakes), themes, other stuff on the way
- Monero Connection: XMR trading pair and David Latapie on the team of both HYP and XMR
- Stake %: High, but at the same time having someone technical to monitor it constantly (Presstab)

I think if HYP keeps up (pun intended), it has a good chance of sustaining itself above $1M market cap, especially if BTC finds a higher floor. The only high-ish PoS coin above it I can think of is Novacoin (NVC), but it seems pretty dead outside of Russia, and it only pays 3% every 30 days I believe. If HYP could get some Asian exposure (where they really like PoS - some coins are kept alive just by Asian interest), I think it could do really well.

Looks like HBN  is on the upswing  :)

I think the floor of hbn was .00005, but will rise steadily until a new floor of .00009 or o.0001. That's another great thing I like about pos coins...there is big incentive to buy at the floor because its a fairly save investment, wheresas pow clins , if they hit a floor and you can't stake, there is much less chance they will have a resurgence. (I.e greater incentive to buy cheap pos coins than cheap pow coins, because the pos ability encourages more purchases just for the pos ability alone, which means less likely to ever fall to a new floor.)

To the hbn crowd: if you have big holdings I recommend putting a few k on cryptsy at around these levels, as just stimulates the market overall. It can be discouraging for potential buyers that want to get hbn but seeing nothing much available at around market price. (0.0000+/-2)

That's what attracted me to these high PoS coins in the recent alt depression (which we may still be in). I started buying HBN in the 4k's, knowing the dev and coin were solid, and it had hit higher price levels before. I didn't feel it could go that much lower, but if it did, the stake could make up for the loss. This is even more true in coins like HYP and TEK with such large rates. The phrase that comes to mind is "Heads I win, tails I don't lose too much."

Just as an update, and I feel like a doofus after requesting the feature in coins like TEK, but there's no way I can keep track of a 25% autosell sort of thing on a daily basis. I still plan on selling some and not hoarding, but I'm just in too many alts to not get the BTC numbers tainted. I still think it's a great feature, but I'm a little too crazy to manage it :P

Guys, I will mention Super one more time, its lowest price ever and worth some gambling money you can aford to lose if it goes bad.
It wouldnt cost much to pick up enough for their POR, if the coin turns out good, it will bring a substansial return on investment...
I took the gamble myself.

Happy staking

Thanks for the update. I would say to anyone who is new to high PoS or doesn't have the funds to risk to not make SUPER their coin of choice. To get the 100k for Proof of Rich, which is not yet confirmed, will cost almost 1+ BTC, depending on what prices you can pick them up for. I'd say build a portfolio of the 4 coins mentioned in the thread, or, if you REALLY want to go all in on one, pick Hyperstake (HYP).

Stake alone won't carry a coin, and the 100% level is pretty crowded atm. I've already lost a good amount (0.5+ BTC) on SUPER myself to pick up like 20k or so :P

The coins are generally priced according to risk.. and Super is fair value, being much cheaper than the others. I always like to trade binary outcomes, because the rewards are much greater for success : there is a way of managing the failures to get a little capital back.

Agree...

There is a decent quantity (10,000) offered at around .00008 right now. It is a good opportunity for entry.

Can you give a little more detail on HBN and CAP, specifically
what is their maturity time for each coin?

I imagine the %interest is based purely on the %/365
So ...
HYP is 750/365 = 2.05% daily
TEK is 500/365 = 1.37% daily

So is CAP 200/365
and HBN 100/365

Knowing the maturity time, gives me the interval to figure out the compounding

I guess I'm gonna make a Crazy Loaf.  I've had some CAPs sitting around a while, I mined them after the big run thinking the prices would return.  Might as well stake em now - while I'm at I should probably through in some HBN and make a loaf of it.  (I've already got TEK and HYP)

Here they are:

HYP (750%): min 9, max 30 : min 1 > 973.9 : max 1 > 345.27
TEK (500%): 30 min, max 90 : min 1 > 60.13
CAP (200%): 15 min, max 45 : min 1 > 6.83 : max 1 > 5.98
HBN (100%): 10 min, max ? : min 1 > 2.06

I went ahead and gave you the compounded as well. It's what each unit of currency turns into on compounding, roughly. Note that none of these take into account the max block rewards and daily block limit. For example, HYP will probably not compound close to x1000. If the HYP thing has anything to share on growth/inflation, they're welcome to. I think they had a numbers guy looking at it :)

About ORB: I have it for over half a year and am very happy with its rewards and retaining value since more than a year.
I saw your interest in ORBitcoin and your hesitation because it needs to be broken in small clumps (minimum 20 ORB) for best staking.
Please note that the ORB wallet takes care of maintaining block size between 25 and 50 after staking, because once it reaches 50 from
the interest (1 ORB) it will be broken into two inputs of half the size.

Say you want to do minimal work and feed blocks of size 49 to the wallet, so at the first time staking they will be 50 in size and break into two 25 size blocks and you create 5 addresses in your ORB wallet plus you enable "Custom change address" to be one of the existing
addresses in your wallet, to avoid that the wallet starts creating new temporary addresses, then every input can be broken into 6 chunks
in one step. To end up with 50 ORB chunks, you start with a 300 ORB chunk and that means that an 1800 chunk of ORB can be broken down in two steps, the second step needs to be executed 6 times for each of the 300 ORB chunks.
This process only needs to be done once and the wallet will maintain the input chunk size within limits (25-50 ORB). I did this after buying a significant amount (over 5k ORB) once and this was done pretty fast (less than half hour with learning curve).
For a while I religiously split blocks after staking to maintain them at 20 ORB exactly but now I let them grow and only occasionally check if I want to split the larger blocks that have recently staked (so their age is young and I do not impact the time to the next staking)

Letting the wallet rezise the blocks does not give the optimal 20 ORB for highest interest, but the larger blocks will stake faster so the effect on interest may be minimal.
Example when the block size is average 30 ORB and staking is only every 12 days (which is the current situation with the high 0.033 diff) then the interest from the 30 times staking per year leads to over 100% return on your wallet balance. (100% without compounded interest)

I have 12k ORB in my wallet and received over 40 ORB in the last 24h from PoS blocks.
This is perfectly in line with the over-100% growth per year.

Okay, some comments on both ORB and SUPER since people seem to keep bringing them up.

I don't like ORB for a few reasons:

- Market cap is too low. It's $50k. CAP is $55k. From a risk/reward perspective, CAP is the better pick.
- Volume feels lower. Every time I've checked it on Cryptsy, it seems to be below 0.1 BTC. I know it trades elsewhere, but according to CMC, it had $39 volume on Cryptsy and $0 on AllCoin. I've seen all the coins I mention in my portfolio having well over 1 BTC in volume some days.
- The block thing IS annoying. Say I want to buy 2.5% of ORB. That's roughly 40k - 50k ORB. I've tried to break blocks on a mere 4k and I had like a 30 second delay between sending the block to myself where I couldn't break it again. I've never had that in any other high PoS coin. I can break huge HYP, TEK, CAP, and HBN blocks in 5 mins or less.
- There was a staking bonanza where people got extra coins just because. I don't really like coins that have time-based stake changes (1 year x%, 2 year y%, etc.), nor do I like where coins randomly change stake based on the block. Staking should be constrained by the parameters and then demand decides what the rate is.
- The high PoS community doesn't mention ORB. If those investors don't want the coin, who will buy it?

The SUPER community seems "coin flavor of the month." They've dumped the coin to all hell over dumb crap like PoD. Price is in freefall. At the moment, the market cap is below completely dead Battlecoin, so maybe it's worth a play. But again, I would prefer a lot of other coins before SUPER if I wasn't speculating. 

I'm in the process of accumulating some Cap and also HYP. Not an easy task! Very little for sale, and a sizable gap between bid and ask.

No doubt! Just compare the order books on any high PoS coin and a random coin and you can see the difference. Former darling MINT (which had 20% stake for the first year, but that's still not juicy enough) has the sell side clogged with orders.

HYP is super hard to buy, but you may be able to catch some sell offs with a buy wall. There's not even a full 1% up for sale at Poloniex: 0.75% of the market only :o Only about 1% of the coin has traded today.

CAP is very interesting. I originally got into it just because of Tranz, but the more I look at it, the cheaper it seems. Due to competing for stake, some people are getting reports of TEK paying 20% or less. CAP pays almost just as much as this, and has a good range of 15 days to 45 days for stake maturation.

Battlecoin (BCX) is trading at a higher market cap than CAP, and it's a dead coin with a poorly featured wallet, low stake, and a large number of coins outstanding!

Also, check out the rich list. The top 6 addresses hold 2M+, or roughly 33% of the coins outstanding. Could this have been the huge buy wall from before? I recall someone mentioning that it was trying to guzzle up 1/3 of the coins.

Finally, the stake is at an interesting rate and and the wait period is pretty anti-trader. It's almost a TEK lite :P Just looking at the # of coins and knowing that it has a more conservative emissions schedule than TEK could have at 40% stake and a similar or lower one at 20% and below, the price has only one way to go: UP! There are 2.3M TEKs and 6.2M CAPs, or 1.70x more CAPs.

Let's look at the market cap of TEK and try to back CAP into that. Let's just say TEK is at $200k market cap, or about 500 BTC. That's 21,739 sat. CAP would need to be 8,065 sat to meet that. Just ignoring market cap and taking the 1.70x multiple, CAPs are 12,787 sat. And all of these are super conservative. It's not like you can just go out and buy large chunks of these coins without moving that market.

You are entitled to your opinion of course.
The fact that a coin is not very well known, does not mean that it has no potential.
As you are well aware, market cap is entire based on price. If price doubles (and it has been over 9k sat more than once)
the market cap suddenly is double, so then it is almost twice CAP...
The block thing is the same between different coins, so I do not understand why you should need to wait for one and not for the other,
in essence all should have a confirmation before splitting blocks up further, but that would make only a few minutes difference on something that needs to be done only once. Not a big deal to me, maybe it is to you. Does not seem a good reason to reject a coin that has been staking reliably without issues for over half a year and is more than a year old with solid support.
The exchanges have been slow in recent weeks, that is why you see low volume: everyone is keeping ORB in their wallet for staking.
The staking bonanza that you dislike was to fulfill an old promise from the original developer of ORB, so there was a reason to do this
"give-away" for a limited time with full support from the community. After that, the coin returned to the specified parameters.
Whether you like it or not - I think ORB has value and that is why I brought it up here to discuss its merits.
Thanks for giving your opinion.

I did diversify and buy into HYP just for the heck of it and have needed to split those into blocks also.
We'll see if that will bring the higher rewards - all depending on how well the value stays up as well as diff increase...

I think if you think about adoption by people outside the high stake fanclub Bottlecaps / CAPs has the most commercially marketable name and branding potential of the pack.  For that reason + Tranz at the reigns, I also agree it is currently significantly undervalued at ~0.0002.

Also as an aside I don't like the token mining period / POS only type coins like Hyperstake as someone has to have been aware at the right moment to have full advantage, so it is too easy for a handful of people to benefit by order of magnitudes above the subsequent waves.  I think the POW/POS format and slower distribution of HBN, CAPs and TEK to be more equitable across a wider time frame.

CrazyLoaf's CrazySteak(TM) 9/25/14 Update

You may notice some changes on the chart below. Going to change by strategy/style a little, but chart first:

STAKE      NAME      BTC       COINS       AVG COST      CURRENT      VALUE      30-STAKE      ROI      PLACE
750%      HYP      7.00       599,560       0.00001168      0.00002749      16.48      10.14      135%      2
500%      TEK      7.70       45,657       0.00016865      0.00030022      13.71      4.11      78%      ?
200%      CAP      5.00       189,311       0.00002641      0.00002165      4.10      0.67      -18%      7
100%      HBN      8.85       150,818       0.00005868      0.00007983      12.04      0.72      36%      6

Current BTC invested is 28.55; Estimated Value is 46.33 based on last trade price; ROI is a blended 62% atm.

Now, I've gotten rid of a few columns to simply things since I'm not going to upload pics and all this when it looks pretty decent as is now. Also, I gave up on doing Stake4Charity, Stake4Steak, Autosavings, what have you. While I don't plan on hoarding my coins forever, the record keeping would be awful since I'd have to keep track of all these little sub 0.01 BTC movements. It just seemed like too much work, and the purpose of this is for fun :)

Now onto some coin by coin comments:

http://hyp.cryptocoinexplorer.com/image/button.png I don't know what happened with me on this one, but I was compelled to invest a LOT more than I had before. There's just something about that rich list that is addictive ;) Also, I see HYP having a really active community going on, and it seems like it has some fresh high PoS coin buyers. It's still thinly traded as can be and less than 0.75% of all coins was for sale earlier today. However, it also is getting good volume. I was considering buying more TEK, but went with HYP.

I've pushed up my average buy price quite a bit from when I only had 1.6 BTC in the coin. I am still feeling really optimistic about this coin. New wallet is sexy as all hell. There's almost close to a constant 100 people in IRC. The marketing side of this coin is really cool and I think the IRC could eventually be a good hangout for all high PoS coins.

http://www.coinssource.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Tekcoin.png Bought a little bit more of this. There was a wall or two I was going to eat, but I bought HYP instead. I'm still liking TEK, especially with this recent run up to 30k sat! (P.S. Where'd that come from?). Another hard fork may be on the horizon. Hopefully some of the more recent features in high PoS coins can be ported over.

The last stake I had was 40%+, but currently the difficulty looks like it'll be doing around 20%. I still like TEK at 20%. Heck, Novacoin only pays like 3% and you have to wait 30 days for it AND there's a max reward of 10 per block. I think moving to a max block reward for TEK wouldn't be bad and would help spread out blocks automatically and keep wallets open versus opening once a month or so. I'm still liking TEK ;D

http://cap.cryptocoinexplorer.com/image/button.png I've talked myself into wanting more CAP. As I mentioned in an earlier post, there's like 33% of the coins held in the higher rich list addresses. I recall the buy wall and I think someone has a plan for this coin. Even if it's just a high PoS beastie, it's close to a TEK-lite to me with it's almost 20% stake and long-ish waiting period, but it also comes with one of the best devs in the business for free :)

I've also noticed it's very hard to buy coins for CAP. I've setup buy walls and I have some trickled to me, but I've almost always preferred to just eat some sell walls to get them into my wallet to start staking. At TEK's current 30k sat value, CAP is supremely cheap in comparison imo. It only has roughly 200% more coins, but the emission schedule going forward seems like it will be more conservative.

http://hbn.cryptocoinexplorer.com/image/button.png I've bought some more HBN since that darn rich list enticed me once again. Also, I remember seeing the order book close to 9k and wanted to help it along. I'll probably keep my eye on HBN and CAP and buy some more since I've had my fill on HYP atm. However, if TEK has a good stake sell-off, I may have to just buy more of it and CAP.

There's a new wallet in development and a hard fork upcoming for HBN. I'm really excited for these. One feature is a max block reward. I recall someone saying that some of the large wallets aren't staking. As a result, it doesn't make sense for them to just hop online a month or so later and hoard all the stakes. The final note I can think of is I could never get my address to confirm with the block explorer. I've tried signing it a few times in different ways, but it doesn't work.

Some Notes

Since I don't plan on selling stakes daily, I may also spread out my entries a little longer. These are quiet coins with serious people in them, so there isn't too much news at times. I saw some good comments earlier that I'll mention later. Also, I may go back and do some edits to earlier posts to make their formats a little cleaner :)

Whats the new wallet for HYP? I'm on version 1.0.5, is there a new one? If so, link please?

https://github.com/presstab/HyperStake/releases/tag/v1.0.6

Here you go. The new theme is sleek and stylish ;D

In regards to Cor2, the issue I had with breaking blocks is that it continually gave errors if you tried to rapidly break down an ORB block. I quickly lost interest as a result. The rest still stands in regards to my opinion on ORB. It's different, but I think its stake parameters being fixed is not attractive since there isn't a trigger for market "demand" to change it as in NVCS based systems.


2 good points. CAP is indeed a good name. Actually, HYP, CAP, and HBN all have "fun" names that make them interesting to at least look at. TEK's is a little more generic, but at the same, it doesn't detract from the coin and there are some interesting ways branding and the like could go. While I don't think looking at use as a currency is important, I would actually be more apt to use something like "HoboNickels" versus "BlackCoin" in real life. I think the branding on a lot of these coins competing to be a defacto currency is a little weesh to be honest. Whatever you do, DON'T look at the BlackCoin music video. It's pretty lame.

CAP is especially undervalued now since, according to a recent Tranz post, so many people are staking that the rate is falling slightly to 170%-180%. That's awesome ;D

Token mining period/PoS only coins are commonly attributed with pump and dump coins, i.e., almost every alt being released saying they're going to be the next BTC. HYP is a little different in that they forked off of TRK, so it's actually the first fork launch that I'm aware of off. As a result, a good 5M-10M of the coins are "dead" in that they aren't active on the HYP chain (exchange wallets, etc. from TRK).

I'm a little torn on PoS. On the one hand it makes a lot of sense for new coins since a pure PoW coin can easily be attacked since hash is so low. A blended system is intriguing since it allows people to generate the blockchain/protect the system in a variety of ways. I think PoS pioneer Peercoin still has PoW, so that could be a vote of confidence ;)

Also, looking forward in a sort of tinfoil hat sort of way, what will happen to pure PoS when/if quantum computing arrives? It seems to me that a PoW system of quantum miners could better defend against attacks on the blockchain.

CAP and HBN are Scrypt mineable and TEK is SHA-256. A lot of early miners don't have machines to compete with those of today, but maybe they still enjoy the mining process, but not necessarily the check out every new shitcoin, make sure you don't get a zero day exploit, dump before everyone else, etc. process. If they've already ROI'ed on their machines, why not relax and point them to these oldie high PoS coins and hold the earnings? Seems like a win-win to me ;D

Nice to see the TokyoGhetto torch passes to such a quality thread.

It's just great the way you are giving HARD NUMBERS for these quality investment coins...
Because they can take a few months to understand and trade/stake effectively.

 8) 8) 8)

Thanks ;) It's nice I can actually give some hard numbers in these. Since these high PoS embrace the whole "math is money" angle that makes Bitcoin so cool, it lends itself to at least some numeric analysis.

On the other hand, the usual way of valuing alts is like this:

Well CrapCoin pumped to X and is now on like number 500 on coinmarketcap. BullshitCoin seems similar, so maybe it can pump to X +- 25% and then die off too. Let me pump and dump before everyone else does ;) Whoops, I mean, let me post everywhere on BTC Talk in other coin's threads about this "great investment opportunity" I found in BullshitCoin. Yeah, that's it :P

I can completely understand this view, and its one of the reasons that CrazyLoaf wasn't wild about Orb.

But one other thing to keep in mind is security of the chain. For these coins you need to sustain a high PoW hash rate to be only moderately safe from attack. Remember the whole episode at Mintcoin that pushed them to eliminate PoW altogether?  So I am completely happy having HYP PoS only, and would have it no other way. Not only is it safer, but it also gets rid of the ability to mine and instadump.  For HYP, you need to either buy and dump, or buy-stake-dump. I like that model quite a lot, it seems to have good traction in the market so far on the supply side.

Concerning the short PoW period. Yes there were some lucky people that mined and now are what I call "legacies", or those leftover from truckcoin (the coin that HYP forked off of).  Unfortunately for me, and most of the people high up on the rich list, we had to buy our way into HYP because the mining period had already ended.

CrazyLoaf good posts!  And yes I have seen you creeping up the rich list, you are either staking like a mad man or buying decent blocks. Hell, you have a higher balance than david latapie now  :D

PS: one other point that is not really discussed as much here, or really anywhere. HYP has about 6 devs working on it at the moment, including me, not to mention the friendly exchange of new code between HBN and HYP, I think this will really help the HYP infrastructure over the long term, but probably doesn't impact pricing much.

+1

the only viable PoS system are one in which the users know there was at least a significant chance of PoW spread

HBN and Caps where both out in a time where Scrypt PoW was not a total monopoly and also it mostly ignored these systems.

these and other crypto are listed in my group under "accidents"  and can be viable, as long as other fundamental characteristics fall in place.

Agree that security of any coin is a concern.
ORB has hybrid PoW/PoS. Only 1/3 of the blocks are PoW (target 3 min block period) while 2/3 are PoS (target 1.5 min) for an overall 1 min block period. What I read is that a hybrid is safer than a pure PoS or PoW, so I am surprised that you position the PoS of a coin like HYP as more secure than for example ORB.
BTW, Peercoin was mentionedd before. ORB is based on Peercoin and released shortly after. As far as I know, ORB was the first hybrid
PoW/PoS that gave block rewards for both, just FYI.
I am not trying to force anyone onto ORB, just trying to set the record straight as ORB promotion has been severely lacking and as a
result almost nobody knows about or understands this coin, except a small circle. And since most of them hang out on CCT, the
BCT thread for ORB is almost deserted and it may seem the coin has little interest, but I can tell from seeing what is being discussed
(I am not related to ORB or its devs, just holder and an involved user / small investor) that there is plenty activity.
Good to see that HYP also has an active team and is sharing resources with other coins. That is the best way to spread quality.
Maybe time to buy some more - my low buy offer has still not hit yet even though the price has come down from my buying spree ;-)

This is where high PoS comes into play. Even in the case of HYP, where there isn't mining, it is clear that there is a good amount of coin churning and distribution. For the last few days that I've checked, Poloniex volume alone has been around 1% of total coins. The very nature of the coins, and the desire at times to sell some stake for reasons such as consumption and investment, makes it where distribution is much fairer than other coins.

Let's compare to the typical alt. There's a super short mining period. Insiders mine/buy most the coins and hold. The price pumps up. When it's at a sufficient level, there are waves of ragedumps where insiders and early buyers sell their entire coin stash. Then the winners move on to the next coin and do it again.

High PoS is different. While for trading reasons you may sell out your whole stash, in most cases, you sell over time, and perhaps never touching your principal level that you want to keep. DRK pumped over the idea of masternodes. In reality, high PoS did this earlier, at least from an investment perspective. You "lock" the coins, generate stake, and can profit from the stake. However, these nodes aren't mere mixers, but minting/mining masternodes that distribute new coins to the economy.

Yes, I have been buying HYP. I'm coming for your spot next :P

6 devs! :o So Tranz is one of those rare unicorn devs that have the programming power of 10, so that means at least 16 devs working on high PoS. And these aren't copy-paste kiddy coders either. I'm really impressed with the complexity of keeping high PoS coins running well in a world where other "devs" just ctrl+c, ctrl+v and don't know what they're doing.

So we're building a high PoS HQ near the BTC castle right? Where HYP, TEK, CAP, & HBN think tanks can operate? Throw in PHS too since it's an oldie but a goodie (another 1+ year old high-ish PoS coin) :)

Yes Tranz is honestly the best dev that I actually know.  Of course you could argue that SunnyKing is a better PoS dev, because of course he invented PoS, but seriously Tranz does amazing work. The devs at HYP, including me, are mostly there to learn and have fun.  Hopefully we will get to Tranz status some day, but by that time Tranz will be to SunnyKing/Satoshi status.

I'm a big fan of CAP. Noticed that of the top 20 addresses 5 are not staking; accounting for approximately 10% of the supply of Bottlecaps. 

Address                     Balance

• Wallet #6
  F2Z6px7dPmkt7VdgLcA7UypYXaJXg2aRve   257994.875
• Wallet #9
  F4bq3JLMpfX3kwW6qTLxKQL3Kua2UZ1FEy   144830.453125
• Wallet #10
  Et48kpSrK9pJHpfstxhar4MgX2ZGGrRvv3   113049.34375
• Wallet #19
  EhVCWZepDRAFTX8V3SdUgNjweUUaGjL95J   56716.824219
• Wallet #20
  EvGd2iCR3SuBNDGrtoaabmZTkdFktccbTX   54249.183594

I agree that it's frustrating getting buys filled but I for one, will be sending 50% of stake back to the market. Spreading the Bottlecaps around, being the change I want to see in the world...blah, blah, blah.

^^^^ Good! I hope to buy the CAP you spread around  :P

Good analysis! Have you checked out the rich lists of HYP, TEK, or HBN by chance?

I'm really liking CAP atm. Actually I like all the high PoS coins I've mentioned. I feel all of them are undervalued, but this is especially the case when you look at what is ahead of them on CMC. A lot of those coins are built on foundations of sand. I argue there is no reason to hold them beyond speculation. It's only a matter of time before some more serious people, even financial professionals who get into crypto as a mere hobby, jump into some of these solid coins.

It looks like TEK is getting ready to stake at around 20%-25%, as mentioned on their thread, for a lot of people. I said earlier that if TEK starts doing that, it makes CAP look a lot more attractive. Even though I have staked TEK at 40%, I am growing to prefer CAP. The reason for this is having TEK stake one day at 40%, one day at 20%, one day at 5%, etc. all in the same month is that it runs contrary to the purpose of NVCS, which is supposed to adjust the rate based on demand for stake. While crypto is fast-moving, I don't think the fundamental feature of value in a high PoS coin, the stake rate, should be subject to such wide swings over a period of one week vs the next one.

CAP had a hard fork in early July, and now 3 months later, it is paying 180%-190% vs 200% since that is what network demand says it should do. CAP is at $60k now. Recall what I said on developer costs. It's a steal on that alone, but you get whatever features are added to HBN as well.

On the other hand, TEK doesn't have a dedicated dev, a PoS rate that isn't 100% clear nor the RPC calls to see what rate is projected based on current stake difficulty. I can't even find a working online block explorer atm to check against before sending coins from my wallet.

TEK needs to fall in price on a per coin basis and/or other high PoS coins need to rise imo. Regardless, I still think high PoS as a group needs to go up in any event :P

Just got a PM from cycoinminer on some address staking info for HYP. Here it is:

I noticed earlier today that you'd asked the question about HYP wallets, that were unstaking - either lost from the days of TRK, corrupted, not backed up etc..... and as it happens, I made a spreadsheet of the top 50 wallets at the time (21st September), and have double checked them today to see that they're still dormant.

pQg5xVxVhrA1bHn7DTkHLZHwgoi31zbQ1b   320031.2813
pMqQmHxb9m2FJkF5Tt7zFhsBfj3Ep9CmpF   292846.0938
pPqL7tC3X8uSD1hJiZTynKHtRiWMTqpp4s   197878.5625
p9ZDWSKPZoaMpnCVhfHguaAXoZcMBivNy5   190040.0313
pAaYK2yWF4AiVupugZGrC9fQtcZ73vn1Bm   185100.0156
pKdMHLKSt1vFM8LchA2GJSSKKQuS3Kvi9e   139713.5313
pD6xijnd7mDGG5BNn1GnyQKwcaeRLFSvJg   108170.3906
pSR17prsZs3Hjos975Rw8FhcL2h8RrJnwf   80867.34375
p82QneNJebW9frANpEZceA64AbzHzRUVDF   80046.8125

Even though the bottom couple of wallets are outside the top 50 now, it gives you an idea that nearly 20% of the top 50 wallets were essentially out of the equation. The above HYP totals 1,594,694 HYP - at today's rate, that's 7.3% of HYP which is out of circulation.

Thanks cycoinminer :)

Saw this in another thread and just had to repost it:

Thats funny, it took me about 2 minutes to add the RPC call that gives live stake rate information to TEKcoin. Wonder why they haven't put it in there yet, it only creates more confusion for the stake holders.

If anyone wants to know how to put it in, send me a pm and I can point you in the right direction.

Any thoughts on Diamond (DMD).  It has 50% interest and seems interesting in that it uses Grostl for POW.  I have watched it for months but never bought as there seems to be continual wallet issues and/or Cryptsy issues.  It looks to be having a fairly smooth upward price movement over the last month.  Not sure if I will buy any but I am thinking about putting a few older 69xx series cards towards mining it.

Some great points being made so far, any more updates on the journal so far crazyloaf? I was wondering you said you were buying more Bottlecap's and potentially others, what prices have you been buying in for? CAP market has been moving nicely lately providing more liquidity for buying and selling wasn't you was it ;).

100% agree with you.

this effect you speak of is after the "ball is rolling" so to speak.

so for example lets, analyze two high stake systems -

1. 6 day PoW to issue, then moves to high stake PoS.

2. a PoW that starts and continues (Caps, HBN) Then High Stake PoS.

^^^

see the potential differences here?

One can sit at the top of the Market Cap (cough cough Blackcoin) and no one will use it, and or have much interesting it. (black is low stake otherwise it would not be there) (but you get the picture)

others are organic and drive from a "bootstrap" up system which is what Crypto is.

Setting up my portoflio now, really want to get at least 1 BTC into HYP before investing into other POS coins :)

I think this is the best place to leave my PoS index chart updates (CrazyLoaf calls it the presstab index  ::) )

This index tracks price (taken daily) as well as staking.  The index starts from July 8th, 2 days after the launch of HYP, when it was trading for 1,000 sats.  This is why the increase in HYP value is so massive, well that and the fact that staking is massive.
https://i.imgur.com/1yG2j2s.jpg

Taking HYP out to give better perspective on the others:
https://i.imgur.com/DDi3BQN.jpg


% BTC value change for each since July 8th:

PeerCoin: 108.9%
Philosophers Stones: 195.5%
HoboNickels: 139.3%
GrowthCoin: 87.7% (this coin is pretty silent now)
BottleCaps: 151.2%
TruckCoin: 444.2%
TEKcoin: 88.7% (adjusted stake rate to 300% in calcs after fork)
HyperStake: 1227.7%

Average: 305.4% - These PoS coins are doing great!

Awesome Presstab! I say we call this the PressDex or something like that ;D Anyone else, feel free to start posting whatever you want high PoS on here. If we get enough routine updates from other people such as journals and coin/strategy analysis, I'll change the OP to better explain what is going on in the thread and who's doing what. Thanks :)

very nice topic, shame EXCL is small stake so wont fit here ;)

Notice the higher-performing coins are the one with a recent new great dev (presstab and maybe me for HYP, noise23 for TRK). HBN has of course a great dev, but he is there since long. Is there a "wow great takeover" effect at work?

noise23 from TRK told me he will take it over if Unick doesn't go back.

We are working on automating this, to prevent giving too much of an advantage to those who "go manual". I mentionned it in the HDJ ("Where no coin has gone before" (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=784363.msg8904098#msg8904098)): "Ultimately, only devoted holders will do it, so it would lead to a concentration of coins. Worst-case scenario, it would lead to the coin being abandonned, because it is "too cumbersome to manage". An automated system would act as an equalizer. One more thing to consider for future coding."

Crazy, could you check HBN and TEK too, to say how many of the highest addresses are not staking? To compare with HYP, where the top 5 are stacking.

AT the BTC castle :) You're welcome to come, book you flight with your stake :)

Well-written!

Thanks for the comments, David.

I just realized I hate how hard it is to quote just sections off older posts (does anyone know an easy way to do this other than "insert quote" and manually deleting down to the part you want to quote), so forgive me if I don't re-quote you :)

Re: Performing Coins

I think what we see at effect in HYP and TRK is what happens with just a little community involvement. This is part of the reason why I wanted to get a high PoS IRC channel going. I KNOW we can get some action going on these older, stable coins. The fact is, even now, a lot of people still aren't aware of high PoS coins, and the value proposition of them is much easier to "sell" to people completely new to crypto, especially those with exposure to finance.

On the format of this community, I prefer IRC to other formats since almost everyone already is using IRC and it allows for live communication as well as easily integrable things like tipbots and all that. Honestly, I don't like making accounts willy-nilly, and I think others are like me. Reduce barriers to action.

Re: Automated Coin Control

I think this could be an interesting development. I'm lazy. All I've done is break my HYP into 1600 HYP blocks and let them ride. I'm fine with a lower rate for less work since at the end of the day, in the long-run, I should be getting the same rate. Too much work, even once, can turn people off to a coin, especially if it is their first exposure to that style of coin. What would a person thinking about high PoS think if say Battlecoin (BCX) was their first coin? The wallet is old and missing GUI based unlocking features. Not everyone is familiar with RPC.

Re: Address Analysis

I'd appreciate if someone does the same for HBN and TEK ;D I haven't been doing this so far and we've gotten really good analysis from others. TEK as far as I know doesn't have a richlist at the moment that is updated.

I think a High POS IRC channel is a great idea, it would be a really good way to get more people involved,a place to bounce idea's around and community growth.

Cool. I think we should get something going. I noticed I didn't post the message I put on other threads on this one, so here it is:

CrazyLoaf's CrazySteak (TM) 9/30/14 Update

Alright, this one has some older point in time data:

STAKE   NAME   BTC    COINS    AVG COST   CURRENT   VALUE   30-STAKE   ROI   PLACE    STAKE#    STAKEVAL
750%   HYP   7.00    676,955    0.00001034   0.00002740   18.55   11.42   165%   3    296,777     8.13
500%   TEK   7.70    49,744    0.00015479   0.00016832   8.37   2.51   9%   ?    9,293     1.56
200%   CAP   5.00    195,640    0.00002556   0.00002960   5.79   0.95   16%   7    28,229     0.84
100%   HBN   8.85    153,484    0.00005766   0.00008566   13.15   0.79   49%   6    12,871     1.10

Investment is 28.55 BTC. Current value is 45.86 BTC. Total value of staked coins 11.63 BTC.

It will be interesting to compare the BTC volume also...
good job crazyloaf !
!tip crazyloaf 52000

HBN has been on a nice steady climb recently ! Great to see hit .0001 again today.  Wish I had grabbed more when it was at 0.00005! 

I picked up some more HYP to diversify my own PoS portfolio. Should be interesting to see how fast the coins rolls in from the super-stake.

What´s your thoughts on SSD (Sonic Drewdriver) SHA 256 PoS coin?

Sonic is only 20% PoS. You don't see a compounding effect until 25% based on StakeHunter's analysis. I don't think that's high enough. Also it seems to have the same investment base as SUPER, in that they are looking for anon features vs high PoS. What does everyone else think?

The "only" 20% PoS aside, i have to admit awesome features. Also the SonicVortex App where you cand send crypto hidden in pictures seems nice.

(Not checked it out 100%. I´m playing around with it soon to know it more then maybe we can send us some emails with hidden currency in pictures then? :D)


lol as you mention SUPER here, i just bought some a while back before and i own some in my craptsy account.Didnt even knew was a PoS Coin, just bought of its name same as SEXCOIN.

Ah and keep up the nice work i´ll keep watching.

I am happy to see HBN climb.  I think if HBN positions itself correctly, it can be seen as the stable exchange rate PoS coin to park your money and clip off the stake.

Hobonickels can attain that position because it is the best distributed of the high PoS coins (having been in a stable staking position for longest).

The others are either much younger, of have undergone more major changes . It's worth checking the number of wallet addresses compared with balances in the rich list : That gives an approximate idea of the distribution, and gives pointers to the possible number of unique individual holders. The median and mode balances are more substantial.

You will know, if you follow all the prices from week to week, that HBN is the most stable.

i generally agree with this although Caps is up and coming, but i do understand what you mean - both are good Crypto, high stake is interesting.

Not quite sure how you are calculating the distribution numbers. HYP's top 10 wallets hold 22.19% of the coin supply, HBN's top ten wallets hold 29.85% of the coin supply. The top HYP wallet is 4.21% of the supply, top HBN wallet is 7.94% of the supply.

I haven't calculated medians or anything. Do you have those stats? It would be super interesting I think.

CrazyLoaf's CrazySteak(TM) 10/5/14 Update

STAKE   NAME   BTC    COINS    AVG COST   CURRENT   VALUE   30-STAKE   ROI   PLACE
750%   HYP   5.46    689,953    0.00000792   0.00002607   17.99   11.07   229%   3
500%   TEK   7.70    52,867    0.00014565   0.00011510   6.08   1.83   -21%   ?
200%   CAP   5.00    199,158    0.00002511   0.00003104   6.18   1.01   24%   7
100%   HBN   8.85    155,117    0.00005705   0.00008377   12.99   0.78   47%   6

Invested is 27.01 BTC. Value is 43.25 BTC. ROI is 60%

ROI is going to be harder to track since I recently made my first coin sale! There was a juicy buy wall in HYP at 2.7k sat and I made 1.54 BTC filling it. Since I've staked over 300k HYP to date, it was pure profits. I'm impressed that HYP was able to take such a large sell.

MMXIV Rebranded - Maieuticoin (M) Investment

While I was looking at some coins, I came across this one. Let's just say I am impressed. MMXIV came out several months ago with 2014 coins. I remember seeing it but not having an interest in it since ultra low count coins have been done before (66, 42, etc.) but they seem to just be joke coins. However, M (currently on Bittrex) has an ultra low coin count (around 2100) AND a 50% PoS rate. I reminds me a little of SYNC, which was supposed to have 100% PoS, but they have made the PoS decline rapidly, making me lose interest in it.

Checking out the order book, a scant 8 BTC takes this coin to 0.1 BTC a coin. The developer has over 42+ pages of posts, so they are very active in this quiet coin. The wallet recently added in-wallet trading via Bittrex API, which I haven't seen in a coin since Cloakcoin. The multipool for the coin (I don't know of too many high PoS coins with one) is pretty slick too (pool.mmxivcoin.com). It looks like it has had decent activity, buying back 0.001%+ of all coins on a daily basis.

Other coin comments

HYP continues to treat me well. Maybe I should rename this the "HyperLoaf Investment Journal" :P

TEK is currently sitting at a loss. I though my average buy-in of 15k sat was cheap enough, but it looks like buy support is drying up, as is happening in a lot of alts with the BTC crash. However, seller of $300 worth of TEK crashed the price to 4k sat :o This is near the HYP peak price, so I don't know why anyone would allow the price to drop so low when HYP has x10+ the amount of coins when it traded at that price.

CAP and HBN are quiet and showing damn good rises atm. HBN has brushed with 10k sat a few times, and CAP has been near 4k sat.

ORB Testing

So I still have a few ORB in my wallet, and I'm going to test out the staking. I think the best way of breaking a block is to keep breaking them down into decently sized ones so you can have a few to break down further while others are going through the confirmation process. You can check out Ghostlander's comments on the thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=586674.msg9096173#msg9096173. It looks like the model averages out to 100% PoS due to the mechanics of the coin.

I still wish volume would pick up in the coin (actually, this is something I really wish would happen in all high PoS coins; price I'm less concerned with). It's at least an interesting mechanic and has a lowish coin count.

High PoS Investment Society

Would still like to get something like this going. These are quiet coins and a little action can go a long way in them :)

Thanks very much for the mention. Glad to be a part of your portfolio!

For anyone else interested, here is a peek of what we've been up to  ;)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623884 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623884)

That was my buy wall @ 2.7k :D
Anyway i'm in top 100 now ;)

i wanted to sell some but i was as just a spectator :)
TRK is also on the recovery :)
Hyp is the master of Pos :)

I read the High PoS Investment Journal every couple days, have gotten lots of great info here!

I have small-ish stakes in HBN and CAP. Although I mine each here and there, I plan to buy a bit more of each.
Have not found an exchange I like for either. Would you suggest an exchange, one that does not exchange USD,
since those require your name, address, and more?

Also, very happy to have recently assembled a six-figure amount of HYP, very much enjoying the staking coin amounts :)
Letting it compound for now.

I believe Comkort is now trading HBN. I think CAP is also traded on Coin-Swap. Crypsty is the larger site for these 2 coins. Honestly, they don't need any of your personal info to get an account. There's no benefit to verification as far as I can see. Just put "Honey Badger" as your first and last name or something.

interesting to see more new interest - Caps is on Cryptsy i'm not sure if ID is a requirement my accounts are pre USD -

hopefully they are not as long as you don't want to use USD.

other than that as the market evens out  more exchanges will come on line.

happy staking and trading.

Cryptsy is the largest market if you are looking to buy HBN, maybe give it a look-see.

Depending how much you are looking for I don't mind trading some of my stake otc for a reasonable/good price, you could also put in some buy orders on cryptsy quite low and wait for a dump to get some cheapish coins as well, if you get lucky thats a great way to get started making some decent BTC interest. the option's there, if interested send me a pm (and anyone else that is new to HBN or CAP and wants to get involved/be a part of the community), and in-case you're wondering the only reason I offer is because that's how I was lucky enough to get into these coins at the start(at a good price) and this got me involved, not because I want to sell my stake :)

Awesome thread, very interesting to read. Added some HBN and CAP to my portfolio.

In case you are looking for another interesting POS coin, please have a look at Magi / XMG. It has just reached POS II. It's not a scammy pump and dump coin, CPU only mineable and has next to an active community, an awesome developer.
Find the XMG thread here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=735170.0).

XMG has a maximum 5% POS.  Interesting coin but doesn't get to hang with the high stake posse.

it doesn't really matter its overall achievement brings far more greater good than your traditional pump and dump coins that only benefit those on on launch day - ready to instamine  and drop that shit on the market. There is a big difference in this use case since Magi needs more miners for higher mining rewards on a wider distro.   

Yeah thats swell and irrelevant...this is the HIGH POS INVESTMENT JOURNAL thread...plug your low POS coin elsewhere where it is not completely off topic.

I love these hi-stake coins, but because of very low volume they are basically fun hobby coins...
Only HYP has managed to find a formula that creates good liquidity (1-2% of all HYP turns over every day)...
The other coins need to make liquidity a priority by studying the HYP phenomenon.

Also, Cryptsy is reporting to the US Govt on your CooterPickles...
And it gets complicated because since a hard fork your CooterPickles are now CooterStake.

Someday in 2018, the nice IRS lady examiner in a suit holding the Cryptsy report from way back in 2014...
Will want you to carefully separate all of your 2014 CooterPickle staking "income"...
From your CooterPickle "capital gains" accrued from price appreciation while long-term hodling...
So it will be crucial for an experienced accountant to accurately categorize your bounty...
Because there may be Foreign Withholding or Tax Credits depending on the location of CooterStake servers.
 

I highly doubt that Cryptsy does any reporting of users to the IRS, unless you think they are preparing to shoot out 1099's to all their users? I am guessing you are confusing finCEN AML laws with the IRS?

Could we do that piece of fiction again but make her a Naughty IRS lady examiner instead?

There's no way it'd be a naughty IRS agent ;) At best, it'll be a fat, old, and childless IRS agent whose barren ovaries and ample house cats makes her angry and apt to take out her frustration on random CooterPickle owners ;D

P.S. When is CooterPickle coin coming?

Its been released last week!

ANN:CooterPickles (CPK) - Quark Algo POW - 250,000% Annual POS (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)

Damn it! Rick Rolled on my own thread! :D

sounds like your perfect job ha ha.

i suppose we should have seen that coming.. ha ha

hehe  ;)

Inflation doesn't matter as much since these aren't competing to be currencies. I mean you can use them as such, but that would be the same as going into Apple stock with the anticipation that you can then get a "Xapple Card" to sell your Apple stock to buy your latte at Starbucks.

High PoS combines a few aspects:

- Mining/minting masternode: the number of coins you have can be considered to be your "power" in generating more coins. However, unlike the continuous arms race of mining with physical machines, you get an idea of the possible "hash power," i.e., what # of coins you can generate based on the number of coins you have as well as the time it will take to hit a block. If you think about mining say HBN, it's like mining BTC in the early days, since when you hit a block, the whole block is yours. Unlike PoW, however, efforts to hit a block aren't burnt up, so you actually generate more coins once you hit a block later.

- Hedging: At a time when almost every altcoin is a falling knife, high PoS at least rewards holders with a set # of new coins/hashing shares. When say Vericoin can just crash into oblivion since it is purely a speculative play from the same people who brought you Blackcoin, intelligently designed high PoS has a latent value in that, like mining, you can put value in to potentially get more value out.

- Continuous share dilution/creation: If you hold the same number of coins and mint them continuously, you will still have the same % of total coins in the market later, more or less. So if you held 50k HBN now, and just staked for a decade, you'd then have say 1M HBN. It's just a mathematical change. You share of the total network of coins, minting masternodes is more or less the same. This is where it helps to think not simply currency, but something more powerful where "dilution" doesn't matter as much.

This is a prety important post to read because Loaf has it exactly right. PoS is a system based on percentages, rather than amount of coins

That's an interesting take on the matter and I think we are pretty much on the same page here. HighPOS is holding out pretty good over the last year unlike so many others. That's exiciting! My main point of interest is about the last thing you mention. Continuous share dilution/creation. I think you are right by stating that the dynamics of HighPOS are not one on one with currency. That's what's making me curious. I wonder at what pace does this creation/dilution take place? And to what extend it matters or not is also a very interesting question!

But it's quite some work so i'll need some time. Then again, it's sunday and crap weather...  :)

Well, this is where I will probably get in trouble and say think of these coins as not currencies, but stocks. Stocks have a certain number of shares outstanding that represent ownership in the company. Let's make the stock a simple one and say its a REIT (real estate investment trust) that owns a single apartment building. We can have 100 shares or 1M shares, but they still represent fractional ownership in the one apartment building. In this case, if I own 10 shares in the first case and 100k shares in the second, I still own 10% of the REIT, apartment building, etc.

This is where you can look at high PoS through the lens of mining/minting masternodes. Say for HBN, right now there are 6,651,104 "shares" on the network. If all these shares stake in the next 10 days, they will produce 133,022 more shares. So buying today, we are buying the minting power that will produce these 133k shares in the next 10 days. If I buy 665,110 HBN "shares" and hold to full stake, I then will have 678,412 HBN, which will still be 10% of share network. I still "own" the same amount of the network.

I'd almost compare some aspects of high PoS to buying hash power on say cex.io and other similar sites. Each site has a limited amount of hash power that is projected to produce a similar amount of coins. One difference is that, unlike cex.io where you compare with other miners, in HBN, you have the total network available and you aren't competing against Betarigs rentals to see what amt of coins you can get.

Let me know if I need to explain more; hopefully this makes sense since I made it up :P

Hi Guys, I posted my findings in the CAP-thread where I started it. If you like check it out!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=241445.2640

with out going into boring details this is what I've been "studying" more or less.

without expecting people to fully understand a PoW system can do a "similar" thing - this is where the study relates to Quark: so think about this (it gets a little socially complex)

-  as it is fully distributed only a seller can sell on you, apart from the EQ
- but as there are many hands in the units (the complex PoW) and the floored initial price etc.
- this means it is the opposite net effect to what the NXT and Black scams did  (they where seeking to improve on the BIT-COIN monopoly.) (because they understood how it was "fake")
- So with lots of trust lost
- every human starts to act in their own self interest.

this leads to a "reserve" situation similar to high PoS - well not exactly the same but a similar effect
its about the absorption  of velocity its similar to what Pressf1 was kind of talking about.

for example Zeta tries to do a similar thing but as its SAH256 it had much less hands, the net result should be that it is not as good a reserve bt will get better in the future , (given that SHA256 is viable)

I want to buy some more HYP, can't decide if the new 4000+ price is here to stay and cheap, or wait for a dip  :-\

It seems that HYP is fairly stable when it comes to recieving gains, so I'd say 4000 sat is cheap :)

I didn't read the whole thread, but in case FIMK (pure PoS) has not been mentioned yet: http://fimk.fi/en/info.html

PS: the basic development philosophy of FIMK may be quite different from the other ones mentioned, as the main development interest and effort is in the communal aspect and every day use - gradual distribution of third of the coins to Finnish citizens as "basic income" over five years, the same time as extra stake rewards are being paid, in gradually lowering curve.

FIMK does not belong here because it's PoS reward is not high.

high enough* :)

If any of you bought into M when CrazyLoaf first gave his review you would already have made nearly 6 times your investment

Which was how long ago?

Few days ago. Maybe a week max. Its in this thread a few pages back but he's mentioned it a few times since

Your saying I could have had a increase of 600% in a week.. Tell me more :)

50% stake with an estimated 25% inflation yearly. Not to mention some big names in altcoins doing the hard work ;)

 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623884

Well this looks really interesting. Gonna have to read through all of it later.  But what do you guys setup in order to stake a bunch of coins at the same time?

pure PoS... - no soup for you !

also you can't sit with the cool kids.




--------------------

Good to see the Hybrids going well - -

Pft, the cool kids have to ask me if they can sit down ;)

I see M (is this what we can call it now?) is categorized in my book as mid-low PoS rate. 50% is historically the PHS market, but PHS is sort of dead community so hard to get a good reading on what the returns should be for this category of PoS. I am interested to follow M overtime and compare it to the returns of other PoS coins.

Curious why there's not more interest in TruckCoin TRK, a 200% PoS coin. It's what HYP was forked from, and the current dev is very involved and capable. Not a lot for sale, but a bargain entry point compared to HBN, CAP, and HYP, although perhaps HYP is its own category.

can i sit here?

Actually, I have a decent amount of TRK. I may be tweaking the format of this a little and may add a list of some high PoS coins (like StakeHunter did) in the OP.

At the moment, I think it's pretty obvious I am in love with HYP + M, both for different reasons ;)

After looking into many differnet PoS Coins it´s

CAP and HYP for me :)

Most coins all you have to do is just send them to your own wallet and wait, that's it =D  You only have to do more coin control if you have a large number of coins that may exceed the maximum POS reward. 

------

Been another interesting week in high PoS world this time around.  HYP has gone through the roof and had a resulting small crash today but it is still looking great. I'm guessing it will steady out around the .000055 mark, any thoughts?     

HBN is steadily climbing up, but the market is so thin just a few thousand coins can move it up and down pretty huge.  I'm trying out the new Hobo wallet 1.5 beta and its looking awesome, Tranz is such a solid dev. 

MMXIV or (motorboat 14 as I call it) is also looking healthy looks like it'll be finding a more steady price over the next few days. Wish I grabbed more when CrazyLoaf first mentioned it, seems a great one to hold long.

The TRK coin market is incredibly small compared to most coins.  But can't say that there isn't any interest. It has raised 600% in the last week  :o

Yeah, hopefully HYP crashes another 50-60%, I need more cheap HYP :)

TRK is a sleeping giant. It trades on Bittrex and has a generous 200% interest rate. CAP is trading over 3k SAT and TRK is currently around 2500. Just remember though that for the longest time TRK was trading around 100-200 SAT and there was plenty of opportunity for people to stock up.

Seems like HYP run up has rubbed off on TRK. Its always nice to be diversified and I hold positions in both.

i was telling some guys on Polo chat to look into your coin today vs HYP.
gave 'em a link etc..

doing a 100% fully honest comparison i think M is the better coin hands down.
this is an unbiased opinion simply by looking at the details of both coins.

my .2 cents ;)

CrazyLoaf sorry don't make me sleep on the couch tonight you sexy beast ..you know i need my 'Loaf to snare dem ZZZ's :(

ok well i just hope it's real basket and not one of those old metal bread boxes my mom had as a kid !
that make a for a cold cramped night :(

there is differences of opinion in this stuff and a lot of doesn't have to be a personal war.
i think the entire crypto world is split down the middle on two key aspects of HYP etc

IPO's and high stake concepts.. guys are for or against it.
and i think M is sort like HYP too i think i seen him saying it was having an ICO on the fork or something and it's POS too
so really i am not the guy to talk to about the two coins.

i want to add a disclaimer here to people *interested please dig deeper and do your own comparison for info.

There was definitely not an ICO or Premine for Maieuticoin

It is with great dismay, that i announce that i have secretly premined this coin. it is ruined. abandon ship!

Me too... I premined it allll niiighht looonnnnggg  :o

A long night of premining is good for the soul  :)

No ICO for HYP either.  There was a tiny premine when it was TRK of 120k coins. Those have nothing to do with me or any of our team though. I had to buy into TRK to get my HYP  ;)

can not find overall coin cap of Truck coin (only a status quo)

Any update? :)

M is not anything like hyp on terms of pos reward.

And as for prediction of a price around ooo55 for Hyp... Guess I was being too pessimistic, hyp is rocking like a champ. Many of you must be grinning ear to ear  :).   Personnaly I think hyp's pos reward is Too high, i think something more like hbn's 6% monthly is more sustainable, but its tough to say. So far the market has been very favourable towards hyp anyways.

Really bummed that HYP didn't hit $0.01 again, was looking for some cheap coin.  ;)

CAP is cheap right now , sometime below 3000 and i really like the longterm upward potential it has.

Lovely Coin really like it. Moved into top30 rich list yesterday :) :) :)

Link to CAP rich list?  :P

http://cap.cryptocoinexplorer.com/rich

I think the massive amounts of TRK that you had when you started could be considered a premine.. imo.

Well a premine is actually something that is embedded in the proof of work reward in the coin, I am surprised a hero member like you doesn't understand the basic foundations.

I had about 300k TRK before the fork.  I was a TRK bagholder, and yes one of the top 10 for sure, but definitely not even in the top 5. So using the same logic that would mean that anybody that held CAP before the hardfork premined CAP?  :D  Oh you jealous people! I love it!  Thanks for taking such a great interest in HYP, it really means a lot that you devote so much time to it.

 I do know it, it just didnt seem like that was full disclosure thats all.

What coins do you like/recommend?

Seems like super-full disclosure to me. Better than nearly all other coins.

IMO this is the way forward for crypto now. Non-anon.


Proof of dev., facility for disclosure of large holders etc..  After all, this is the way things operate in the real democratic world.

I disagree, the market is oversaturated with non-anon coins, full anonymity is still a niche.

Lol please. Proof of dev is a fuckin joke. Neither one would verify ME, one of the least anon people here

They're both bullshit lol

what about SUpercoin?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=736705.0

100% for first year with superblocks! looks like it has good coding as well

Ummmm, they're still searching for a dev team last I saw :P

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=676976.0

Silkcoin will be increasing their stake percentage to 11%, 111%, or 1111%. In-wallet voting ends on 10/31.

Which % would you vote for?

Definitely 1111%... that would be interesting.

Would ne interesting for sure. I don't think it would work thoughk. Imho that's too high. There would be so much sell pressure the coin would quickly inflate keeping the price sinking. I.m not sure how high is too high, and I could be wrong, but there has to  be some sort of reasonable upper limit to what is feasible; I think over a 1000% is pushing it.

Good to see you Crazyloaf! If you remember , Ive got all the typical high POS coins, TRK, HYP, CAP, HOBO ect.. here is another I found that is still in pow .5 diff scrypt..lol., cheap and is 50% Interest. Its TOP V2. No, its not 100% or 200% , but it might be just a nice addition. Im also invested in Roscoin. 30% pos. Inexpensive and works like a charm. Has anyone mentioned Oribitcoin 500% interest annually?

Vegas

CrazyLoaf I see You sold nice part of Your stash today... ::)

Which coin are we talking about?

CAPS

Yep, that and HBN and some TEK as well. I saw some decent buy walls above my average BTC cost, and wanted to reduce the amount of BTC I had invested in the coins.

I have to say that, so far, performance hasn't been all that great with my coins. I bought into most of these at a price level when BTC was $600+, so I'm already recognizing losses there.

I've been monitoring my coins and I've noticed that there is a real lack of community in a lot of them. I hate to compare everything against HYP, especially with the FUDsters lurking, but I honestly feel there is at least a baseline level of communication/development there versus other coins. I can hop on the IRC and see 125+ people.

Other coins don't have IRCs and seem to be back several stages development/growth-wise. I mean take a look here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=241445.msg9361317#msg9361317

Good on the community for trying, but are we really still taking so long to come up with icons for a wallet?

Community and trader interest drives prices. All these high PoS coins *could* follow under the same argument that all the clone coins do, which is: "Hey, that's just Litecoin with some parameters changed."

Anyway, that's my rambling :P

Probably You are right in some points and it is Your investments plan but if We look at whole crypto We will see ONE BIG PRICE DUMP. HYP got some attention right now but its price is dumping hard and will not get back to 8k any time soon. Will see how much ppl will be on IRC channel when price will hit 2-1k range. Best of luck for everyone

This +100.  Same thing with every one of the many many coins that have had their 15 minutes of fame and had the 'best community ever!'.

Wish HYP never pumped because things are never the same after the dump.

I hope that HYP is able to build a base of people that aren't there to day trade and look at the charts every few seconds. People that are fans of proof of stake, and people that want to use and help improve QT wallets, coin control, social tipping, etc. The pump in price seems to be too many people trying to buy at once, all the while supply is not flooding into the exchange because nobody wants to destroy age.  Now lots of those stakes have happen and are being thrown to market, and several of the original whales are starting to cash out it appears.

From my perspective, I like seeing the price come down. It is now more affordable for the newbie staker to come grab a few decent blocks of HYP and learn how staking works. Honestly I would love to see HYP be a coin that helps teach everyone about proof of stake. It is not supposed to be a get rich quick scheme like so many of the other coins seem to be.

Just my .02 HYP :)

But somehow someone made a LOT of money after the pump to 9k.
About 40 addresses from top 100 dumped most of their coins, and that is a lot of HYP.

I'm fine with that. HYP needs to be more distributed IMO. I'm currently around spot 590 and another 10k would bring me to the mid 300's....

Sure, thats how trading works. A buyer and a seller for every trade. There was just over 1 million HYP traded in just 3 days on poloniex up at the peak prices. Some/many whales had to have been feeding the market or else prices would have gone even higher.

I for one welcome a shuffling of coins from the hands a few to many.

Sounds basic, but gonna repeat it anyways: best time to invest in a coin you believe in is when the price is low, not high. Best time to buy is after a big dump or price correction.

That'd being said All of Crypto is in a bear market right now. I'm in 8 coins right now and they are all going down. Its good to have rules to your trading to protect your investments as well. If a coin is over 200% from what you bought at, sell back your original investment. Use stop orders to automatically sell in a dive. That sort of thing.

And keep in mind no one ever profits if they buy into a strong coin in a strong market. You'll have better odds buying in early, or if you missed that, buying in when the markets poor, Luke these days.

I have faith i n btc itself, if you do as well, i'dbuy what you can afford. I bought a bit more btc at 349 recently andim pretty confident that'll prove to be a good investment like it was when I bought at 20$, 80$, 200$ and even 600$ last year before the run up to the ATH.

The best oppurtunties are when the market is shit.

Fact 1: Dump is over and the amount of people in the IRC is close to the ATH (and was also at the bottom of the dump).
Fact 2: During and after the dump, we set up revolutionnary StackingPool with HyperPool, had our first multipool operational and designed HyperShield, that I am personally overseering. Other projects are on the way too.

This one is for all the devs, rich children and armchair analysts out there that feel their parents' wealth gives them license to have their opinion taken seriously -- who feel this entitlement grants them access as important contributor to the scene, without which we would all be lost (and many of whom have commented in this thread):

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/64/642498a0e68a48428ebbef778e1386b8194dcdb58d1493242dc1e63ef20a8d2f.jpg

You're all just barfing toxic horse manure into the atmosphere at an alarming rate. I fear it is now contributing directly to global warming.

So why don't you all develop some shame or some self-respect, just be grateful that you were born into wealth and stop trying to make other peoples' lives worse for a living -- all so you can pretend your penis is a couple inches bigger. Well trust me, its not.

I don't even follow? :P

Hey, crazyloaf, if you dont mind me asking, other than HYP & TRK, what are your holdings? I heard you had a massive falling out with M, and therefore dont like balls. Word on the cryptostreet is your not a fan of HBN or caps because of low trade volume, and it makes it hard to exit. I dont know if any of this is even true, so I came to you. With all those eliminated what are you holding I haven't mentioned?

Vegas

Sure. Here's my high PoS holding(s):

Hyperstake ;D

Here's my thoughts on the others that I have exited and/or am exiting:

CAP/HBN: I like Tranz and how he's pretty quiet, but I feel like the communities in these coins never really took off. I'm also a little confused with HBN vs CAP, like why would you want one above the other? Seems there needs to be some interplay. On CAP, I've noticed a lot of back and forth with the dude trying to come up with new wallet themes. I mean he's working for free, but then other people are saying it needs to be more like Fallout and stuff like that? :-\

Also, I've talked with some whales who bought CAP at higher prices during the BTC wall. They've experience large fiat + BTC losses, so are monitoring a possible exit point.

I've monitored the pricing in HBN for a while before I started selling. I was really interested in performance around 10k sat, but it never seemed like it could hold on. Little 5k-10k HBN sellers would drop it to 9k, 8k, 7k, etc.

TEK: TEK has gone back to paying 40%+, but that's because (imo) demand for stake blocks is low since a lot of whales exited. I'm a 24/7 staker, and that's the best thing for the network, so until there is a hard fork where this can be done safely without keeping the wallet locked and monitoring the PoS difficulty, I'm out. The dump that woke me up in TEK was the $300 sell from 14k sat to 3k sat. I get things can happen, but there are other ways to get money (and it's not like you can quickly turn that $300 in BTC into $300 in fiat unless you do some legwork). There's a couple of other technological updates I'd like to see also.

PHS: Quiet coin with ultra low volume. Ultra low being 0.1 BTC and less a lot of the time. Not really much to say.

NVC: I tested a block of 600 NVC for over 3 months with the wallet open 24/7. My stake was a grand total of 6 NVC, no where near close the pretty low 35% rate. Beyond that, boring coin. Maybe the community in Russia is better, but seems really quiet in their English thread.

TRK: I'm worried about this one. I think it's getting removed from AllCoin and Bittrex has it on a warning for low volume. I can't tell if Bittrex wants 0.2 BTC volume daily or 0.2 BTC volume weekly. I like how noise kept it alive with the design and things like that, but with CAP struggling a little imo, TRK may have a hard time. It never had too much volume to begin with and that "pump" to 2k sat was met with a very thin buy book.

GRW: Ultra low volume. Probably going to die out.

Any other questions on coins, let me know.

Damn, you're right. I forgot to put that in my last post.

Anyway, I'll add a disclaimer here that it's analysis from a nutless monkey.

MonkeyBread is pretty good. Mmmmmmmmmm. And I don't think you want nuts in that anyway (wouldn't hurt I guess), so it's cool.

Looking into XQN, thanks for the tip! But yeah good updates as always CrazyLoaf.

I've been looking into dabbling in LTCGear, as I bought in HYP from the 1K+ satoshi range :P. LTCGear looks legit, might consider buying into XQN just to dabble with the POS rate as well as the interesting motives.

It's about time someone tried to actually "monetize" these PoS networks...
But it's important to read beyond the sexy buzzwords and cool VaporMaps.

According to the LinkedIn profile XAI's awesome leadership...
Consists of a guy with no university education, no background in AI and no background in quantitative trading.

As someone with all 3, I find this hilarious.

Anyone can say, "We're gonna throw AI on a blockchain"...
And roadmap vague stuff usually developed by people with advanced degrees making $250K on Wall Street...
But, hey, they referenced a sci-fi movie for credibility. Take my money, please.

Still, it's a cut above HYP... at least they are pretending to do adult things.

lol im sorry HyperStake is not working on a decentralized poker platform or other serious endeavours for you.

http://www.blockchainsingularity.com/

Have you read this? Do you realize that this makes absolutely no sense? And the "whitepaper" is long gone.

It's basically a series of sentences that are non-sequiturs...
Or a buzzword is tossed out and then never referenced again or tied in.

The only source of revenue is amorphous "algorithmic trading"... Of What? By whom?
There is no point even explaining how actual "algorithmic trading" works to people that would swallow this shit.

So they are going to link all Alts together, sure let's call it "block singularity"...
And build a "massive" neural network on top of this...
And then the network is going to "learn" and become "sapient" just like in that movie...
And for some reason sophisticated finance pros are going to pay to plug into this thing?

And 6 months away? OK
"invited to a special Slack group where we can collaborate to fulfill the mission of the project." OK

So they built a nice wallet... and are experimenting with hourly ultra-staking...
But what they are promoting is far more complex than SuperNET minus the genius of NXT and JL777.

lol.

HYP is probably the only high stake coin I've lost money on...
As have at least 90% of the people involved with HYP.

You guys are every bit as shameless as the Monero crowd...
There must be some connection... wait... it's that guy... whatshisname.

Its all about when you got in (aka Perspective). Lets take Bitcoin, what about the people that got in right at the $1k mark? Or Litecoin or Vertcoin and got in near their ATHs, of course they're going to say stuff negatively.

All about how you look at it.

HyperStake is 6 months old. Anybody that has sold out at this point is probably a trader not an investor. If you haven't made money, then you aren't a good trader and should probably try some new trading methods.

http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/12/difference-investing-trading.asp

So how is ltcgear working out for Crazyloaf?

Sounds like it might be a scam..

http://newsbtc.com/2014/12/30/hashie-ltcgear-users-bitcoins/ (http://newsbtc.com/2014/12/30/hashie-ltcgear-users-bitcoins/)

Edit:  Well it looks like the site is still there and they supposedly upgraded their server.. 
Maybe ltcgear is ok yet ?? 

I got over 50% ROI before this happened. I'm hodling the rest since I'm crazy. If it works out, fine, if not, it will suck, but hasn't performed as poorly as some alts I've seen at least.

I don't really have anything within crypto I'd invest the remainder in, hence my indifference.

CrazyLoaf since there is not many high PoS coins (because they mostky suck Hbn was best but nowmprice is bad), whats your take of smaller stake coins but with better prices and markets ie getting 100k Excl and staking it for a month. It stakes 1% a year butnit stakes few hours old coins so itsmeasy to stake

Nice to meet you too.

Is HYPER in your portfolio yet CrazyLoaf?

Over 50 BTC trading volume on Bittrex, 5% monthly PoS for another 4.5 years, and many developers working on various projects: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=624651.0

It's my favorite high PoS coin by far (due to the overly active dev team) and the only one that has steadily increased in value over the last 6 months.

Does anyone think there's any hope left for hobonickels?

Aw, yeah, I forget about HYPER, but yeah, they could do something too. So it's either them on NVC in the next BTC rage pump.

Honestly, I never liked HYPER that much due to the massive pre-mine. I also think the overall idea is kind of weak in that a BTC app could just be made that does what HYPER is trying to do.

I know its not super high pos, but have you taken a hard look at Diamond DMD coin ? 50% interest.

Yeah, it's squeaking by at the lower part of the first page on CMC. Honestly I looked at it plus HYPER before, as well as a bunch of other coins, and didn't like it. Unless something has changed, I don't see what will take it to say $400k, or above market cap.

The only altcoins I'm in atm are XAI (Sapience), XQN (Quotient), and SDC (Shadowcash), as well as possible scam LTCGear. Of these, only XQN is high PoS.

Fair enough. Well you should take a look at the HYPER thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=624651.0 wiki http://hypercrypto.com/wiki and twitter http://twitter.com/hypercrypto there has been a lot of development and there is a lot more on the way. Someone just made this video today for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMTt3zAJgpg

Honestly I see more development happening with HYPER and it's ecosystem than 99% of alts out there. The 5% monthly PoS is nice too ;D But it sounds like maybe you aren't so much into the PoS coins anymore.

He just dumps lol

Sure, I "dump" at an 80% loss. I think you can only call it dumping if you sell at a nice gain.

Then you're a stupid dumper

Nice response. And how long was I supposed to hold a coin with zero innovation? Rhetorical question, much like I'm sure your statement was meant to be, but I was mildly annoyed already and feeling troll-y.

Is that so? It doesn't matter what a nobody thinks anyway. Back to your regularly scheduled dumping while promoting

And maybe you can just back to your 2 little shitcoins. If you notice, I haven't really mentioned BALLS or MMXIV or anything like that anymore, since there is nothing more to say on the matter.

Look at the volume of the coins I've mentioned here. I am an absolute shit pumper if that is the case :/

"Investment Journal"  :D

ITT: Another noob stepping over dollars to dump for pennies thinking he's a whale. Lol, self important, but useless  ::)

We've already established that I'm as useless as a nutless monkey, yes.